Why overland isn't fun for endgame players in one picture
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Starlight_Knight✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree that PVE overland content is way to easy for a cp cap player, but i understand thats its not for a new player.
As i was already CP cap when warden came out, now i play warden as a main.
I would love to finish off all the zones and enjoy a challenging game-play experience.
But its SOOOOOOO EASY -
Edited by Starlight_Knight on March 11, 2018 2:25PM3 -
SugaComa✭✭✭✭✭As someone who recently started over on NA to play with some friends, I can say with confidence that Overland is already challenging enough for non-CP characters.
And I don't see how ZOS could fix this without shafting new players.
Easy ... When a CP leveled player creates a new character they get an option to do two things ...link achievements with their max CP character this gives the new character all the achievements of the old character so they can then enter One Tamriel Plus
Which is a harder version of all the quests to do again on a fully maxed character1 -
Ydrisselle✭✭✭✭✭My first thought was: What world boss dies in 3s? That's impressive!
Then realized dude just rolled over a delve mob with an ultimate.
*Delveboss
But interesting note as Worldbosses have seen rebalancing in the past and are currently doing what they are supposed to do I think.
Oh, and btw this is not supposed be be a showcase of skill, more a showcase that skills isn't needed in this situation.
At your level delves should not be a challenge. If you want one, go for world bosses as a solo player, or try solo dungeons (DLC normals or base game veterans). Delves are a challenge when you are under lvl30.5 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Repeat after me:
The entire game does not have to catre to my interests
There is content designed for me
There are other games designed for my interests
Repeat until you figure it out.
Practice what you preach and git gud.
The starter zones can be easier, but they should ramp up heavily.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.2 -
DocDova✭✭✭
A boss that dies in three seconds and does no mechanics what so ever isn't fun and sadly this is the case with pretty much all overland content. I really like questing, however with every enemy dying in two hits it simply isn't fun. In my opinion the level scaling needs some serious tweaking, so that endgame players don't outscale overland enemies so much.
Today I hunted 'Songbird' with 3-4 high level players (two 700+, one 650+), It was a tough grueling long battle. I was lucky they were there when I decided to hunt remaining World Bosses in Vvardenenfell.
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Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Repeat after me:
The entire game does not have to catre to my interests
There is content designed for me
There are other games designed for my interests
Repeat until you figure it out.
Repeat after me:
I should read and understand a post before commenting.
Repeat until you figure it out.
I did, and I do. S'just the same selfish whining on the subject people are want to do.6 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Repeat after me:
The entire game does not have to catre to my interests
There is content designed for me
There are other games designed for my interests
Repeat until you figure it out.
Practice what you preach and git gud.
The starter zones can be easier, but they should ramp up heavily.
I allready do practice what I preach, the content designed for endgame players is endgame, the content designed for story-focused players is overland, and those who just want to have a good time do normal dungeons. Maybe it's you who need to git good at finding games focus'd on your interests?
The only reason I'd like to go back would be probably the scaling since One Tamriel which has hit some classes harder than others.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on March 11, 2018 2:40PM2 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Two options for you:
1. Instance the entire game so that it is all scaled to your own personal level of power.
2. Cap the power level of every player (or scale them) in the game at a maximum for all stats, attributes etc.. so no one can get any stronger than intended for the area that they are in
For (1), that would be ridiculous as the whole game would be lonely and empty.
For (2), games like GW2 does this with older areas, where you are scaled down in strength (your effective level) to match the area you are in. This works better than the 1T way of doing things mainly because of power creep. New sets and more CP means that older areas get easier with every new update. That doesn't happen with GW2 because you are always capped in that older area.
*(I have not played GW2 for a long while so things may have changed)*
But it's too late now to change things. 1T was a hit with players and they are not going to redo the game again.2 -
essi2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As someone who recently started over on NA to play with some friends, I can say with confidence that Overland is already challenging enough for non-CP characters.
And I don't see how ZOS could fix this without shafting new players.
Easy ... When a CP leveled player creates a new character they get an option to do two things ...link achievements with their max CP character this gives the new character all the achievements of the old character so they can then enter One Tamriel Plus
Which is a harder version of all the quests to do again on a fully maxed character
That would require making a New Game+ instance of the entire overworld that also seamlessly interacts the non-Overworld content, for what is most likely a very small subset of people who want a overworld that is harder.
Easy is the last word I would use, also as mentioned previously in this thread, the world post-1T doesn't scale. YOU scale."The Heritance are racists yes? Idiots. But dangerous, destabilizing racist idiots." - Razum-dar
"Wood Elves aren't made of wood, Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves" - M'aiq the Liar
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*** https://www.youtube.com/@essi2 - https://www.twitch.tv/essi2 ***1 -
red_emu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »OP drops everything on a 150k health delve boss and says stuff's too easy. Since the game released the delve bosses have never been hard to kill, 5 bots wearing starter gear could kill them in less time back in the day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEoXFEEOrj8
Love it! It's like current state of Sotha Sil EU
PC - EU:
Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
Falathren - AD StamSorc
Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
Your-Ex - AD MagBlade0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Said it before, will say it again. This content isn't aimed at end game players. Now, I'd be totally down for a "veteran" overworld toggled by setting difficulty to veteran as if about to do a vet dungeon and using a wayshrine to go to a zone. Resets all quests and toughen all overland content considerably (33k health becomes 100k+, delve bosses have 500k health etc). The Division does something similar with "world tiers".
Any other attempt is possibly messing with newbs.6 -
monktoasty✭✭✭✭✭I'm cp 355 or around there and cannot kill any bosses in two hits. I can't even even solo a true non delve boss.
It's all perspective10 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
A boss that dies in three seconds and does no mechanics what so ever isn't fun and sadly this is the case with pretty much all overland content. I really like questing, however with every enemy dying in two hits it simply isn't fun. In my opinion the level scaling needs some serious tweaking, so that endgame players don't outscale overland enemies so much.
As much as I agree with you about how utterly unsuitable the content is for endgame players, ZoS can't scale it differently because it is scaled correctly for players with 0 CP (I know because when Morrowind released, I level up a toon without using any of my CP).Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.5 -
ParaNostram✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Offering a toggle champion points option could help with this a little more and allow for people to test their builds in a non CP environment (handy for PvPers). I do wish overworld content was harder though. I remember vanilla ESO when bosses like Doshia were actually a challenge that felt rewarding to beat (after a few dozen brick wall attempts at her)."Your mistake is you begged for your life, not for mercy. I will show you there are many fates worse than death."
Para Nostram
Bosmer Sorceress
Witch of Evermore
"Death is a privilege that can be denied by it's learned scholars."
Order of the Black Worm2 -
TheNuminous1✭✭✭✭✭
✭i just dont like that the content thats easy and stuff for new players is like the whole map. while stuff for us long time end game players is restriced to vet dungeons and trials2 -
FakeFox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Repeat after me:
The entire game does not have to catre to my interests
There is content designed for me
There are other games designed for my interests
Repeat until you figure it out.
Repeat after me:
I should read and understand a post before commenting.
Repeat until you figure it out.
I did, and I do. S'just the same selfish whining on the subject people are want to do.
You obviously don't. The point is that I want a system that fits more different players then the current one.EU/PC (GER) - Healermain since 2014 - 50305 Achievement Points - Youtube (PvE Healing Guides, Builds & Gameplay)0 -
FakeFox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »Said it before, will say it again. This content isn't aimed at end game players. Now, I'd be totally down for a "veteran" overworld toggled by setting difficulty to veteran as if about to do a vet dungeon and using a wayshrine to go to a zone. Resets all quests and toughen all overland content considerably (33k health becomes 100k+, delve bosses have 500k health etc). The Division does something similar with "world tiers".
Any other attempt is possibly messing with newbs.
Yeah, this is a option that I have seen in other threats before and I would really like. I guess it's a rather complex one, not sure thought.^^EU/PC (GER) - Healermain since 2014 - 50305 Achievement Points - Youtube (PvE Healing Guides, Builds & Gameplay)0 -
lagrue✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's delve boss... hardly reflective of overland content at its toughest. They have like 130k HP....
Go do that to an actual world boss and then come back and complain...
You seem to forget also not everybody is an endgame player, lower levels struggle with these bosses alone."You must defeat me every time. I need defeat you only once"12 -
FakeFox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's delve boss... hardly reflective of overland content at its toughest. They have like 130k HP....
Go do that to an actual world boss and then come back and complain...
You seem to forget also not everybody is an endgame player, lower levels struggle with these bosses alone.
Please read through my suggestion more carefully. I never suggested anything that would affect low level players negatively. I'm aware that world-bosses are harder, however they are a exception and my point isn't on world-bosses.EU/PC (GER) - Healermain since 2014 - 50305 Achievement Points - Youtube (PvE Healing Guides, Builds & Gameplay)0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Repeat after me:
The entire game does not have to catre to my interests
There is content designed for me
There are other games designed for my interests
Repeat until you figure it out.
Repeat after me:
I should read and understand a post before commenting.
Repeat until you figure it out.
I did, and I do. S'just the same selfish whining on the subject people are want to do.
You obviously don't. The point is that I want a system that fits more different players then the current one.
"More different" is woefully unspecific. What exactly do you want?0 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Carbonised wrote: »You used destro ult and like 4 other skills on a delve boss. What exactly did you expect? And let me guess, youre in gold equipment and maxed out cp too.
Maybe just maybe you can leave some stuff for the non cp non optimised new players. This stuff wont be a walkover to them. Its not as if delve bosses were ever meant to be a challenge to a maxed out player.
Go do a vet dlc dung if youre that bored.
The build is just quickly slapped together as I usually don't play sorc, but that doesn't really matter here. Yes I used my ult, but that should be expected as you maybe meet a boss every 15-20 minutes and between those encounters there is really nothing else to use it on.
The point about my post that you seem to miss is that I don't want overland content to be generally harder and I know there are newer players that struggle with it. That's why I want the scaling to be changed to better fit the players strength and make it a fun experience for everyone.
Then go into PvP solo, there's your endgame content~ 7 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheNuminous1 wrote: »i just dont like that the content thats easy and stuff for new players is like the whole map. while stuff for us long time end game players is restriced to vet dungeons and trials
This is becuase hardcore endgame players are a tiny fraction of the playerbase and are in pretty much every MMO.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.6 -
boombazookajd✭✭✭✭✭I started 5 months ago. I still remember dying quite often, I'd pull too much aggro or just didn't really understand how to play the game. I've always felt that the game was pretty challenging. Hell, I used to avoid trolls like all hell, they'd destroy me. It left me feeling like a had a long time to go. I still can't solo a World Boss (CP260 something).
Now that I know how to play the game and am rolling a new alt, I don't die as much but I know who to take seriously. How to rotate through bars, what skills to use, and how to fight.
The game is still difficult for a new toon but once you're to max cp, you should be rolling through content like a hot knife through butter.Drathus Delenu- Dunmer magDk: Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Stormproof, Peak Scaler, Clockwork Confounder, Orderly, Master Wizard, Cloudrest Hero, Undaunted, Dragonstar Arena Champion
Thoronir Rolston- Breton petsorc: Stormproof
Zaakazha-Redguard stamblade: Boethia's Scythe, Clockwork Confounder, Maelstrom Arena Champion, Dragonstar Arena Champion
Scrubs:
Justinius Maximus Decimus- Altmer magblade
Agronak gro'Mashul- Orc DK Tank
Valerya Hawkcroft- Breton healer
Zaaka- Imperial stamDK/crafter
_________________
XB1 NA2 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Delve Boss does not equal an Overland Boss. Delve bosses are much easier because they're meant to be soloable by new players. They're also supposed to be easy enough so that new players can get their skyshards and boss achievements to make LVL50.
If you want a "challenge" try soloing overland World Bosses (which is still easy enough) and you could try soloing Vet Dungeons.
Final thought: Just so you know- the "end game" challenge of this game is PVP. So, if you really want to challenge yourself, try going to Vivec in Cyrodiil. Every fight is different. Every fight requires you to adapt to your enemy (or team's) playstyle.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren5 -
FakeFox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Repeat after me:
The entire game does not have to catre to my interests
There is content designed for me
There are other games designed for my interests
Repeat until you figure it out.
Repeat after me:
I should read and understand a post before commenting.
Repeat until you figure it out.
I did, and I do. S'just the same selfish whining on the subject people are want to do.
You obviously don't. The point is that I want a system that fits more different players then the current one.
"More different" is woefully unspecific. What exactly do you want?
A scaling system, multiple difficulties or something along those lines to make overland contend more fitting to a players strength.EU/PC (GER) - Healermain since 2014 - 50305 Achievement Points - Youtube (PvE Healing Guides, Builds & Gameplay)0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
A boss that dies in three seconds and does no mechanics what so ever isn't fun and sadly this is the case with pretty much all overland content. I really like questing, however with every enemy dying in two hits it simply isn't fun. In my opinion the level scaling needs some serious tweaking, so that endgame players don't outscale overland enemies so much.
In short, yes and no. Regular questing isnt supposed to provide a satisfying dark souls like challenge, or even close to it. It's supposed to be fairly easy.
But scaling does need to take into account CP better. NO ONE should have ridiculous enough dps to kill a world boss solo in seconds.
FFS.... if i had a dime for every time some one says difficult = darks souls.
Seriously is your capacity to understand meaningful and engaging difficulty this limited to where if players desire some form of resistence it automatically means they want a dark souls level of punishing game design.3 -
Robo_Hobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think when Summerset comes out I'll do the quests naked with no CP assigned and white level 1 weapons, to hopefully make the quest encounters more interesting. I love the storytelling, no doubt. That's the main reason I love questing and look forward to every new addition, but I do agree that when a big antagonist in a quest is all built up to be powerful and threatening and the stakes are high, and then they die mid-speech during their first battle taunt at the start of the fight it gets a bit anticlimactic.
Hmm, maybe no food or attribute points either.4 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Overland isn't for end-game players. It's meant to be stupid easy.
Which simultaneously undermines both integrity of the game as a whole and insults the players ability to manage even the smallest form of challenge.
When your entire overworld is as hard as pre one tamriel khenarthi's Roost, you have a problem in my eyes.1