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Should there be a CP catch up mechanic? Should we be able to buy them?
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Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheCyberDruid wrote: »You don't need eight months to learn the mechanics of Veteran Hard Mode dungeons. Eight months to attain max level in a game is a bit ridiculous no matter how you spin it around.
Love how you omitted the bit where I said I spend 4 months on single player content. Granted you can skip that part, but then you don't play the game and just rush towards the end game content. In that case you should not be able to buy your CP for that. Granted you don't need CP 720 for that. You need CP 300-ish. Which is what you get by playing the game. Which is my point.
You will only weigh down your group in some of the harder content with 300 CP. Fang Lair Vet HM, Falkreath Vet HM, Bloodroot Vet HM, every Vet Trial.
That's far from "all you need".
Take this example into account, imagine if you were an individual that was skilled at MMORPGs and had mastered your class in this game but had only 300 CP. it would be a bit discouraging for you to be gated behind that CP wall to perform at your highest level or to satisfy the requirements of groups to even let you in.
Blame the groups, not the CP system.
I think both are at fault.0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverIce58 wrote: »TheCyberDruid wrote: »You don't need eight months to learn the mechanics of Veteran Hard Mode dungeons. Eight months to attain max level in a game is a bit ridiculous no matter how you spin it around.
Love how you omitted the bit where I said I spend 4 months on single player content. Granted you can skip that part, but then you don't play the game and just rush towards the end game content. In that case you should not be able to buy your CP for that. Granted you don't need CP 720 for that. You need CP 300-ish. Which is what you get by playing the game. Which is my point.
You will only weigh down your group in some of the harder content with 300 CP. Fang Lair Vet HM, Falkreath Vet HM, Bloodroot Vet HM, every Vet Trial.
That's far from "all you need".
Take this example into account, imagine if you were an individual that was skilled at MMORPGs and had mastered your class in this game but had only 300 CP. it would be a bit discouraging for you to be gated behind that CP wall to perform at your highest level or to satisfy the requirements of groups to even let you in.
Except you keep forgetting that nothing is actually "gated" behind a CP wall. Or do you not actually understand? Gated means that you LITERALLY, I'll say it again, LITERALLY, cannot do this certain activity until you had max CP. If someone, or some group is imposing a limit on CP, that's on them. But there is nothing in the game that a person cannot do at 300 CP. If they want to do Vet HM Asylum at 300 CP, well that's on them, but they're certainly allowed to try.
I think it should be gated.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheCyberDruid wrote: »You don't need eight months to learn the mechanics of Veteran Hard Mode dungeons. Eight months to attain max level in a game is a bit ridiculous no matter how you spin it around.
Love how you omitted the bit where I said I spend 4 months on single player content. Granted you can skip that part, but then you don't play the game and just rush towards the end game content. In that case you should not be able to buy your CP for that. Granted you don't need CP 720 for that. You need CP 300-ish. Which is what you get by playing the game. Which is my point.
You will only weigh down your group in some of the harder content with 300 CP. Fang Lair Vet HM, Falkreath Vet HM, Bloodroot Vet HM, every Vet Trial.
That's far from "all you need".
Take this example into account, imagine if you were an individual that was skilled at MMORPGs and had mastered your class in this game but had only 300 CP. it would be a bit discouraging for you to be gated behind that CP wall to perform at your highest level or to satisfy the requirements of groups to even let you in.
Blame the groups, not the CP system.
I think both are at fault.
If, by, "both," you mean the groups and yourself, then sure. Otherwise, stop begging for P2W to make its way to ESO.
In case you've forgotten:MerlinPendragon wrote: »Yes, I would also like a way to buy levels, CP, whatever. Pay to win is fine by me.
Thanks for chiming in with your response and opinion. I also agree with you.I think it should be gated.
Which runs directly against the overall inertia of ESO's design. In case you didn't know, which you probably didn't, the game has been trending towards something that is far more inclusive and open to new players. So, they deliberately decided to remove gating from many systems along the way. About the only place it's been reinstated is with the dungeon queuing system, and that was because lowbies were being thrown into DLC dungeons they weren't prepared for. You can still get into those, you just need to do it with a premade group now.1 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »TheCyberDruid wrote: »You don't need eight months to learn the mechanics of Veteran Hard Mode dungeons. Eight months to attain max level in a game is a bit ridiculous no matter how you spin it around.
Love how you omitted the bit where I said I spend 4 months on single player content. Granted you can skip that part, but then you don't play the game and just rush towards the end game content. In that case you should not be able to buy your CP for that. Granted you don't need CP 720 for that. You need CP 300-ish. Which is what you get by playing the game. Which is my point.
You will only weigh down your group in some of the harder content with 300 CP. Fang Lair Vet HM, Falkreath Vet HM, Bloodroot Vet HM, every Vet Trial.
That's far from "all you need".
Take this example into account, imagine if you were an individual that was skilled at MMORPGs and had mastered your class in this game but had only 300 CP. it would be a bit discouraging for you to be gated behind that CP wall to perform at your highest level or to satisfy the requirements of groups to even let you in.
Blame the groups, not the CP system.
I think both are at fault.
If, by, "both," you mean the groups and yourself, then sure. Otherwise, stop begging for P2W to make its way to ESO.
In case you've forgotten:MerlinPendragon wrote: »Yes, I would also like a way to buy levels, CP, whatever. Pay to win is fine by me.
Thanks for chiming in with your response and opinion. I also agree with you.I think it should be gated.
Which runs directly against the overall inertia of ESO's design. In case you didn't know, which you probably didn't, the game has been trending towards something that is far more inclusive and open to new players. So, they deliberately decided to remove gating from many systems along the way. About the only place it's been reinstated is with the dungeon queuing system, and that was because lowbies were being thrown into DLC dungeons they weren't prepared for. You can still get into those, you just need to do it with a premade group now.
I agree.0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »So, basically, this?
What I would say is the CP cap could also be adjusted and the returns raised. More percentages for less points with a stable cap around 300 - 500. This would be more ideal.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »So, basically, this?
What I would say is the CP cap could also be adjusted and the returns raised. More percentages for less points with a stable cap around 300 - 500. This would be more ideal.
I did run the numbers, by the way. The CP for a given threshold drop by about 5% each time the cap is raised. The overall cap does increase, also by about 5%, but, at this point, getting to the gear cap is cheaper than it's ever been.
Again, if someone's telling you that you need to be over 160 to run content, they're an idiot, and lying to you.3 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »So, basically, this?
What I would say is the CP cap could also be adjusted and the returns raised. More percentages for less points with a stable cap around 300 - 500. This would be more ideal.
I did run the numbers, by the way. The CP for a given threshold drop by about 5% each time the cap is raised. The overall cap does increase, also by about 5%, but, at this point, getting to the gear cap is cheaper than it's ever been.
Again, if someone's telling you that you need to be over 160 to run content, they're an idiot, and lying to you.
Can you show me the formula you came up with or the long hand math so I can see how you came to the conclusion? I am deeply interested in comparing this with the other formula.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »So, basically, this?
What I would say is the CP cap could also be adjusted and the returns raised. More percentages for less points with a stable cap around 300 - 500. This would be more ideal.
I did run the numbers, by the way. The CP for a given threshold drop by about 5% each time the cap is raised. The overall cap does increase, also by about 5%, but, at this point, getting to the gear cap is cheaper than it's ever been.
Again, if someone's telling you that you need to be over 160 to run content, they're an idiot, and lying to you.
Can you show me the formula you came up with or the long hand math so I can see how you came to the conclusion? I am deeply interested in comparing this with the other formula.(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
x is your current number of Champion Points.
I just used excel to model out the data points, and spot checked them against known values, then followed up by modeling the values, and pulling the data.0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »So, basically, this?
What I would say is the CP cap could also be adjusted and the returns raised. More percentages for less points with a stable cap around 300 - 500. This would be more ideal.
I did run the numbers, by the way. The CP for a given threshold drop by about 5% each time the cap is raised. The overall cap does increase, also by about 5%, but, at this point, getting to the gear cap is cheaper than it's ever been.
Again, if someone's telling you that you need to be over 160 to run content, they're an idiot, and lying to you.
Can you show me the formula you came up with or the long hand math so I can see how you came to the conclusion? I am deeply interested in comparing this with the other formula.(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
x is your current number of Champion Points.
I just used excel to model out the data points, and spot checked them against known values, then followed up by modeling the values, and pulling the data.
That looks like the same formula from earlier?0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »So, basically, this?
What I would say is the CP cap could also be adjusted and the returns raised. More percentages for less points with a stable cap around 300 - 500. This would be more ideal.
I did run the numbers, by the way. The CP for a given threshold drop by about 5% each time the cap is raised. The overall cap does increase, also by about 5%, but, at this point, getting to the gear cap is cheaper than it's ever been.
Again, if someone's telling you that you need to be over 160 to run content, they're an idiot, and lying to you.
Can you show me the formula you came up with or the long hand math so I can see how you came to the conclusion? I am deeply interested in comparing this with the other formula.(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
x is your current number of Champion Points.
I just used excel to model out the data points, and spot checked them against known values, then followed up by modeling the values, and pulling the data.
That looks like the same formula from earlier?
Very astute.
What I did was model out the values, and then actually process the resulting data to pull trends.0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »So, basically, this?
What I would say is the CP cap could also be adjusted and the returns raised. More percentages for less points with a stable cap around 300 - 500. This would be more ideal.
I did run the numbers, by the way. The CP for a given threshold drop by about 5% each time the cap is raised. The overall cap does increase, also by about 5%, but, at this point, getting to the gear cap is cheaper than it's ever been.
Again, if someone's telling you that you need to be over 160 to run content, they're an idiot, and lying to you.
Can you show me the formula you came up with or the long hand math so I can see how you came to the conclusion? I am deeply interested in comparing this with the other formula.(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
x is your current number of Champion Points.
I just used excel to model out the data points, and spot checked them against known values, then followed up by modeling the values, and pulling the data.
That looks like the same formula from earlier?
Very astute.
What I did was model out the values, and then actually process the resulting data to pull trends.
It's still not coming out the way you've demonstrated.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »So, basically, this?
What I would say is the CP cap could also be adjusted and the returns raised. More percentages for less points with a stable cap around 300 - 500. This would be more ideal.
I did run the numbers, by the way. The CP for a given threshold drop by about 5% each time the cap is raised. The overall cap does increase, also by about 5%, but, at this point, getting to the gear cap is cheaper than it's ever been.
Again, if someone's telling you that you need to be over 160 to run content, they're an idiot, and lying to you.
Can you show me the formula you came up with or the long hand math so I can see how you came to the conclusion? I am deeply interested in comparing this with the other formula.(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
x is your current number of Champion Points.
I just used excel to model out the data points, and spot checked them against known values, then followed up by modeling the values, and pulling the data.
That looks like the same formula from earlier?
Very astute.
What I did was model out the values, and then actually process the resulting data to pull trends.
It's still not coming out the way you've demonstrated.
I'm not going to post every data point, obviously, but here's the header and some early data.
2 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »So, basically, this?
What I would say is the CP cap could also be adjusted and the returns raised. More percentages for less points with a stable cap around 300 - 500. This would be more ideal.
I did run the numbers, by the way. The CP for a given threshold drop by about 5% each time the cap is raised. The overall cap does increase, also by about 5%, but, at this point, getting to the gear cap is cheaper than it's ever been.
Again, if someone's telling you that you need to be over 160 to run content, they're an idiot, and lying to you.
Can you show me the formula you came up with or the long hand math so I can see how you came to the conclusion? I am deeply interested in comparing this with the other formula.(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
x is your current number of Champion Points.
I just used excel to model out the data points, and spot checked them against known values, then followed up by modeling the values, and pulling the data.
That looks like the same formula from earlier?
Very astute.
What I did was model out the values, and then actually process the resulting data to pull trends.
It's still not coming out the way you've demonstrated.
I'm not going to post every data point, obviously, but here's the header and some early data.
Thanks for posting this. I just crossed the 300 CP point on my alt account after a couple weeks of grinding almost every day. The difference between what it took to get there and what it's going to take to get to 720 CP is MASSIVE. I feel like I just crossed the Atlantic ocean in a canoe, but now I'm going have to cross the Pacific by dog paddling, LOL.
According to your sheet, I've got around 137 million XP to go. My current grind, using 50% drinks and golded Training gear, gets me around 100K XP every 5 minutes, or 1.2 million XP per hour. 137/1.2 = 114 hours of grinding! That's equivalent to 3 weeks of a full time job. Unfortunately, I already have a full time job in real life, I don't need another one
The reality is that grinding up a second account is going to take months, not a couple weeks like I'd hoped. This is ridiculous, nothing in the game should take this long.
#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »So, basically, this?
What I would say is the CP cap could also be adjusted and the returns raised. More percentages for less points with a stable cap around 300 - 500. This would be more ideal.
I did run the numbers, by the way. The CP for a given threshold drop by about 5% each time the cap is raised. The overall cap does increase, also by about 5%, but, at this point, getting to the gear cap is cheaper than it's ever been.
Again, if someone's telling you that you need to be over 160 to run content, they're an idiot, and lying to you.
Can you show me the formula you came up with or the long hand math so I can see how you came to the conclusion? I am deeply interested in comparing this with the other formula.(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
x is your current number of Champion Points.
I just used excel to model out the data points, and spot checked them against known values, then followed up by modeling the values, and pulling the data.
That looks like the same formula from earlier?
Very astute.
What I did was model out the values, and then actually process the resulting data to pull trends.
It's still not coming out the way you've demonstrated.
I'm not going to post every data point, obviously, but here's the header and some early data.
Can you show more information in long form?Edited by Knowledge on March 12, 2018 12:41AM0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »So, basically, this?
What I would say is the CP cap could also be adjusted and the returns raised. More percentages for less points with a stable cap around 300 - 500. This would be more ideal.
I did run the numbers, by the way. The CP for a given threshold drop by about 5% each time the cap is raised. The overall cap does increase, also by about 5%, but, at this point, getting to the gear cap is cheaper than it's ever been.
Again, if someone's telling you that you need to be over 160 to run content, they're an idiot, and lying to you.
Can you show me the formula you came up with or the long hand math so I can see how you came to the conclusion? I am deeply interested in comparing this with the other formula.(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
x is your current number of Champion Points.
I just used excel to model out the data points, and spot checked them against known values, then followed up by modeling the values, and pulling the data.
That looks like the same formula from earlier?
Very astute.
What I did was model out the values, and then actually process the resulting data to pull trends.
It's still not coming out the way you've demonstrated.
I'm not going to post every data point, obviously, but here's the header and some early data.
Can you show more information in long form?
If you have Google Drive you can copy this spreadsheet and adjust the CP in the box and it will adjust the XP for the individual CP:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r_5rtP9w4e4tbUxzgwq9JjPj84KFM8PB46S_QC-zmVE/edit#gid=0
It also takes into account the XP penalty you take above the cap.The Moot Councillor0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »So, basically, this?
What I would say is the CP cap could also be adjusted and the returns raised. More percentages for less points with a stable cap around 300 - 500. This would be more ideal.
I did run the numbers, by the way. The CP for a given threshold drop by about 5% each time the cap is raised. The overall cap does increase, also by about 5%, but, at this point, getting to the gear cap is cheaper than it's ever been.
Again, if someone's telling you that you need to be over 160 to run content, they're an idiot, and lying to you.
Can you show me the formula you came up with or the long hand math so I can see how you came to the conclusion? I am deeply interested in comparing this with the other formula.(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
x is your current number of Champion Points.
I just used excel to model out the data points, and spot checked them against known values, then followed up by modeling the values, and pulling the data.
That looks like the same formula from earlier?
Very astute.
What I did was model out the values, and then actually process the resulting data to pull trends.
It's still not coming out the way you've demonstrated.
I'm not going to post every data point, obviously, but here's the header and some early data.
Can you show more information in long form?
If you have Google Drive you can copy this spreadsheet and adjust the CP in the box and it will adjust the XP for the individual CP:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r_5rtP9w4e4tbUxzgwq9JjPj84KFM8PB46S_QC-zmVE/edit#gid=0
It also takes into account the XP penalty you take above the cap.
It's not working for me can you break it down here?0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »So, basically, this?
What I would say is the CP cap could also be adjusted and the returns raised. More percentages for less points with a stable cap around 300 - 500. This would be more ideal.
I did run the numbers, by the way. The CP for a given threshold drop by about 5% each time the cap is raised. The overall cap does increase, also by about 5%, but, at this point, getting to the gear cap is cheaper than it's ever been.
Again, if someone's telling you that you need to be over 160 to run content, they're an idiot, and lying to you.
Can you show me the formula you came up with or the long hand math so I can see how you came to the conclusion? I am deeply interested in comparing this with the other formula.(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
x is your current number of Champion Points.
I just used excel to model out the data points, and spot checked them against known values, then followed up by modeling the values, and pulling the data.
That looks like the same formula from earlier?
Very astute.
What I did was model out the values, and then actually process the resulting data to pull trends.
It's still not coming out the way you've demonstrated.
I'm not going to post every data point, obviously, but here's the header and some early data.
Can you show more information in long form?
If you have Google Drive you can copy this spreadsheet and adjust the CP in the box and it will adjust the XP for the individual CP:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r_5rtP9w4e4tbUxzgwq9JjPj84KFM8PB46S_QC-zmVE/edit#gid=0
It also takes into account the XP penalty you take above the cap.
It's not working for me can you break it down here?
You won't be able to edit that particular sheet (it's not mine, I just found it and copied it to play with).
You need to have Google Drive and then you can click on File --> Make a copy and that will make a copy for you that you can edit.The Moot Councillor0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »So, basically, this?
What I would say is the CP cap could also be adjusted and the returns raised. More percentages for less points with a stable cap around 300 - 500. This would be more ideal.
I did run the numbers, by the way. The CP for a given threshold drop by about 5% each time the cap is raised. The overall cap does increase, also by about 5%, but, at this point, getting to the gear cap is cheaper than it's ever been.
Again, if someone's telling you that you need to be over 160 to run content, they're an idiot, and lying to you.
Can you show me the formula you came up with or the long hand math so I can see how you came to the conclusion? I am deeply interested in comparing this with the other formula.(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
x is your current number of Champion Points.
I just used excel to model out the data points, and spot checked them against known values, then followed up by modeling the values, and pulling the data.
That looks like the same formula from earlier?
Very astute.
What I did was model out the values, and then actually process the resulting data to pull trends.
It's still not coming out the way you've demonstrated.
I'm not going to post every data point, obviously, but here's the header and some early data.
Can you show more information in long form?
If you have Google Drive you can copy this spreadsheet and adjust the CP in the box and it will adjust the XP for the individual CP:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r_5rtP9w4e4tbUxzgwq9JjPj84KFM8PB46S_QC-zmVE/edit#gid=0
It also takes into account the XP penalty you take above the cap.
It's not working for me can you break it down here?
You won't be able to edit that particular sheet (it's not mine, I just found it and copied it to play with).
You need to have Google Drive and then you can click on File --> Make a copy and that will make a copy for you that you can edit.
Okay can you simply provide the values in this thread with a series of screen shots?Edited by Knowledge on March 12, 2018 12:57AM0 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Okay so,
Going by LiquidPony's formula your math looks to be incorrect.
Quoting him again:
" " Earlier CP are easier to earn.
With a cap of 501 CP:
CP100-->CP101: 117184.5799 XP
CP200-->CP201: 198721.9405 XP
With a cap of 720 CP:
CP100-->CP101: 91413.51779 XP
CP200-->CP201: 148827.0356 XP
Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that the total amount of XP needed to reach cap increases as the cap increases.
Note the wording in (every) patch note. "The Champion Point experience curve has been automatically adjusted ..." Note the key word "automatically," and that automation comes from the fact that the formula which determines the XP required to level includes the CP cap as a variable. ZOS isn't changing anything; the result of the formula changes as the variables change. Basic algebra.
I honestly don't even know why you're arguing about this. Before you respond again, why don't you log in to your account, and see if the XP needed to achieve your next level match the result of the formulae on UESP:
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
It would take literally 20 seconds and totally obviate the need for this back-and-forth. If your point is that the formula is 2 years old so it must be wrong (Pythagoras is rolling in his grave), then why is it that said formula exactly matches the XP I need to get my next level on 3 separate accounts (XB1, PC, PTS)? Dumb luck? "
I wish Zenimax would comment on whether or not the XP amount has gone up in total or not to end this back and forth.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »So, basically, this?
What I would say is the CP cap could also be adjusted and the returns raised. More percentages for less points with a stable cap around 300 - 500. This would be more ideal.
I did run the numbers, by the way. The CP for a given threshold drop by about 5% each time the cap is raised. The overall cap does increase, also by about 5%, but, at this point, getting to the gear cap is cheaper than it's ever been.
Again, if someone's telling you that you need to be over 160 to run content, they're an idiot, and lying to you.
Can you show me the formula you came up with or the long hand math so I can see how you came to the conclusion? I am deeply interested in comparing this with the other formula.(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
x is your current number of Champion Points.
I just used excel to model out the data points, and spot checked them against known values, then followed up by modeling the values, and pulling the data.
That looks like the same formula from earlier?
Very astute.
What I did was model out the values, and then actually process the resulting data to pull trends.
It's still not coming out the way you've demonstrated.
I'm not going to post every data point, obviously, but here's the header and some early data.
Can you show more information in long form?
If you have Google Drive you can copy this spreadsheet and adjust the CP in the box and it will adjust the XP for the individual CP:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r_5rtP9w4e4tbUxzgwq9JjPj84KFM8PB46S_QC-zmVE/edit#gid=0
It also takes into account the XP penalty you take above the cap.
It's not working for me can you break it down here?
You won't be able to edit that particular sheet (it's not mine, I just found it and copied it to play with).
You need to have Google Drive and then you can click on File --> Make a copy and that will make a copy for you that you can edit.
Okay can you simply provide the values in this thread with a series of screen shots?
It would require 15 screenshots of the same size as the one I just posted.Edited by starkerealm on March 12, 2018 11:36AM0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Okay so,
Going by LiquidPony's formula your math looks to be incorrect.
Quoting him again:
" " Earlier CP are easier to earn.
With a cap of 501 CP:
CP100-->CP101: 117184.5799 XP
CP200-->CP201: 198721.9405 XP
With a cap of 720 CP:
CP100-->CP101: 91413.51779 XP
CP200-->CP201: 148827.0356 XP
Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that the total amount of XP needed to reach cap increases as the cap increases.
Note the wording in (every) patch note. "The Champion Point experience curve has been automatically adjusted ..." Note the key word "automatically," and that automation comes from the fact that the formula which determines the XP required to level includes the CP cap as a variable. ZOS isn't changing anything; the result of the formula changes as the variables change. Basic algebra.
I honestly don't even know why you're arguing about this. Before you respond again, why don't you log in to your account, and see if the XP needed to achieve your next level match the result of the formulae on UESP:
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
It would take literally 20 seconds and totally obviate the need for this back-and-forth. If your point is that the formula is 2 years old so it must be wrong (Pythagoras is rolling in his grave), then why is it that said formula exactly matches the XP I need to get my next level on 3 separate accounts (XB1, PC, PTS)? Dumb luck? "
I wish Zenimax would comment on whether or not the XP amount has gone up in total or not to end this back and forth.
Line 2, line 3 is the % change, while line 4 is the % change related to the 501 cap.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »So, basically, this?
What I would say is the CP cap could also be adjusted and the returns raised. More percentages for less points with a stable cap around 300 - 500. This would be more ideal.
I did run the numbers, by the way. The CP for a given threshold drop by about 5% each time the cap is raised. The overall cap does increase, also by about 5%, but, at this point, getting to the gear cap is cheaper than it's ever been.
Again, if someone's telling you that you need to be over 160 to run content, they're an idiot, and lying to you.
Can you show me the formula you came up with or the long hand math so I can see how you came to the conclusion? I am deeply interested in comparing this with the other formula.(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
x is your current number of Champion Points.
I just used excel to model out the data points, and spot checked them against known values, then followed up by modeling the values, and pulling the data.
That looks like the same formula from earlier?
Very astute.
What I did was model out the values, and then actually process the resulting data to pull trends.
It's still not coming out the way you've demonstrated.
I'm not going to post every data point, obviously, but here's the header and some early data.
Thanks for posting this. I just crossed the 300 CP point on my alt account after a couple weeks of grinding almost every day. The difference between what it took to get there and what it's going to take to get to 720 CP is MASSIVE. I feel like I just crossed the Atlantic ocean in a canoe, but now I'm going have to cross the Pacific by dog paddling, LOL.
According to your sheet, I've got around 137 million XP to go. My current grind, using 50% drinks and golded Training gear, gets me around 100K XP every 5 minutes, or 1.2 million XP per hour. 137/1.2 = 114 hours of grinding! That's equivalent to 3 weeks of a full time job. Unfortunately, I already have a full time job in real life, I don't need another one
The reality is that grinding up a second account is going to take months, not a couple weeks like I'd hoped. This is ridiculous, nothing in the game should take this long.
Well, let me introduce you to the concept of trait research.
To be clear, if you're at 300, you're good to go for nearly all endgame content, outside of running Vet Hardmode in DLC dungeons, by assessment of the devs. Even then, this is more of a psychological stumbling block than a real obstruction. Remember, the goal is to allow you to do stuff and then get some advancement as a result, rather than simply sitting at level cap until the end of days. The spending cap is there because some people will just continue grinding endlessly, and there are people with at least 1.8k CP squirreled away. Run what you want, or find a guild and work with them. If they're telling you that you need to grind to 720, they're idiots.Edited by starkerealm on March 12, 2018 12:15PM3 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭If we can instantly research traits or severely lower the time it takes to research them what is the difference in allowing CP to be bought or enlightenment to be purchased?
It's as if crafters get special treatment.1 -
VilniusNastavnik✭✭✭✭✭Basically what we are seeing already is Max level player who do not know mechanics, because all they have done is have someone grind them to cap in Skyreach or Spellscar, vote kicking anyone below cap from their pugs.. Being able to buy CP points will mean there will be even more max level player who do not know what they are doing. Leveling CP allows you to learn your build, and refine it. It's slow, but it gives you ample time to get to know how to play, and learn all the dungeon mechanics. It's a no from me.Active Toons:
NA - VilniusNastavnik - Magsorc DPS - Altmer
NA - Ko'h Nehko'h - Stamblade Archer - Khajit
NA - Arwyn Winterlight - MagPlar Healer - Breton
NA - Urog Blackfang - DK Tank - Orc
NA - Elen Windsong - Stamsorc DPS - Bosmer
NA - Eats-Strange-Fungus - Magden HealzTank- Argonian
NA - Harwyn Northwind - MagWarden DPS - High Elf
NA - Raises-Many-Families - Necro HealzTank - Argonian
Picture of my Active Toons.
Location: Australia - Wollongong, NSW - Sydney.
Obligatory ESO Fashion website plug: Vil's Portfolio2 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭VilniusNastavnik wrote: »Basically what we are seeing already is Max level player who do not know mechanics, because all they have done is have someone grind them to cap in Skyreach or Spellscar, vote kicking anyone below cap from their pugs.. Being able to buy CP points will mean there will be even more max level player who do not know what they are doing. Leveling CP allows you to learn your build, and refine it. It's slow, but it gives you ample time to get to know how to play, and learn all the dungeon mechanics. It's a no from me.
What you're stating won't change the outcome but only delay the inevitable. People will still be inexperienced when they get to cap. I'd rather have a guy that is inexperienced with tons of CP points to help mitigate his/her poor player skill instead of someone with low CP making it a heavier carry.Edited by Knowledge on March 12, 2018 9:06PM1 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If we can instantly research traits or severely lower the time it takes to research them what is the difference in allowing CP to be bought or enlightenment to be purchased?
It's as if crafters get special treatment.
In case anyone needed further proof that this guy is just trolling
Trait research is passive, for one, and requires no playing of the game. Secondly, it doesn't provide a tangible benefit to a player to know al nine traits.
If you can't see the difference, there's something distinctly wrong with your logic1 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭If we can instantly research traits or severely lower the time it takes to research them what is the difference in allowing CP to be bought or enlightenment to be purchased?
It's as if crafters get special treatment.
In case anyone needed further proof that this guy is just trolling
Trait research is passive, for one, and requires no playing of the game. Secondly, it doesn't provide a tangible benefit to a player to know al nine traits.
If you can't see the difference, there's something distinctly wrong with your logic
You can make gold by crafting things for other players. How does it not provide tangible benefits?
I am not trolling I am trying to discuss helpful ideas to a growing problem.1 -
Elvent✭✭✭✭I'm CP 607. I wouldn't mind seeing an enlightenment XP boost scroll item to buy. Using the XP gear, potion and scroll all at once, the xp bar barely moves a pinch doing anything like quests, dolmens, delves. I feel like I'm only making progress when I have enlightenment but it's only once per day.Edited by Elvent on March 12, 2018 9:40PM1 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm CP 607. I wouldn't mind seeing an enlightenment XP boost scroll item to buy. Using the XP gear, potion and scroll all at once, the xp bar barely moves a pinch doing anything like quests, dolmens, delves. I feel like I'm only making progress when I have enlightenment but it's only once per day.
Thank you for chiming in with your experience and idea. I also agree that enlightenment should be longer or we should be able to purchase it.1
This discussion has been closed.