smacky wrote: »

And, yes, if you’re this adamant that MM *needs* to be a baseline part of the guild trader system, then you are saying that the game also *needs* to be one step closer to a global auction house system, because that’s exactly what MM does.

Not true. MM, as per my previous reply applies only to YOUR guilds.[/quote]

You can knit-pick the details of what I said, that’s fine. You’re still not getting this, though.

“Can I get a price check on [insert item]?” is still a common question in the chat. And, the answer is a universal price listing.

Homogenized. Global. Economy.

You didn’t get a global ah, but you got global pricing via an addon. I think you should just be happy Zos hasn’t decided to categorize these things as cheating.

smacky wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

smacky wrote: »

And, yes, if you’re this adamant that MM *needs* to be a baseline part of the guild trader system, then you are saying that the game also *needs* to be one step closer to a global auction house system, because that’s exactly what MM does.

Not true. MM, as per my previous reply applies only to YOUR guilds.

You can knit-pick the details of what I said, that’s fine. You’re still not getting this, though.

“Can I get a price check on [insert item]?” is still a common question in the chat. And, the answer is a universal price listing.

Homogenized. Global. Economy.

You didn’t get a global ah, but you got global pricing via an addon. I think you should just be happy Zos hasn’t decided to categorize these things as cheating.

I wasn't knit-picking. There is a VERY big difference between Your guilds and Global.

As for the PC Problem, that can be solved by people downloading TTC themselves. However if people are too lazy to do so, chances are they are going to find themselves getting screwed over anyway.

People will typically give them the lowest of the 2 prices, then offer a lowball offer to buy, and resell at the realistic price.
I saw someone attempt this 2 weeks ago, where the MM price they were given was 40k cheaper than the TTC avg with 300+ listings (and this was before the 18mil prices)

So all in all, yes I am "getting it".

As for calling this cheating .... seriously? I think you're just looking for an argument at this point.[/quote]

When I said “you’re not getting it”, I meant Zos isn’t going to incorporate it. But, no, you’re still not “getting it”, either. These 3rd party programs completely undermine the original intent of the guild trader system.

You’re not supposed to have instant access to this information, let alone game-wide pricing for specific items. People selling in Mournhold shouldn’t be pricing their items exactly the same as people in Grahtwood.

Calling people “lazy” for not using 3rd party programs to get an unfair advantage is the most ridiculous argument here.

I kind of see all sides on this, and not sure where I land. 100% agree that, even with AwesomeGuildStore, the search is the biggest pain point. Make it somehow so you can search and have all the relevant results in one window, as opposed to scrolling through pages with nothing. No one is having fun doing that. It seems like a database problem.

-I would get frustrated with this game without MM and AGS. In fact, with the loading screens taking so long, I can't even deal with moving inventory around to sell and purchase things all on one character. After trying several times, I went back to having those mods activated all the time, except for sometimes my PvP toon.

-Not sure these mods could really be considered against the vision of the game. Otherwise they would have been purposefully broken like Miat's was.

-Also, the game has had mixed results with incorporating former mod features as core game functionality. For example, I feel like the scrolling text implementation was fairly successful, but most of us who can still use buff mods. I would not like to see these mods implemented with less features only to have double the overhead of the in-game functionality + the mods.

-I also have always been a fan of the guild trader system. It feels very ESO-ish to me. Never liked global auction houses where people were very obviously price setting. Personally speaking, I have had way more fun flipping items and playing the market in this game. Maybe it's just me, but I also like the fact that you have to have explored the world, or have friends in the world, to shop around, too. It is enjoyable to be traveling somewhere, stop at a lone Guild Trader, and find a hidden gem.

ALL of that being said... the market and economy overall are not fun anymore. I think this is less the result of the mods or the guild trader system and more because there just aren't that many desirable, hard-to-get in-game items that people are seeking. Due to the maturity of ESO as an MMO, there is the natural gap that's growing between people that have been playing forever and new players. Too many things can be obtained at the Crown Store (for example, soooo much of the craftable furniture can be obtained in the Crown Store, as opposed to have Crown Store-only offerings and craftable-only offerings). High priced items fall really fast within a matter of weeks.

I'd like to see ZOS invest in something that will rejuvenate the economy and crafting. It would probably require bypassing an opportunity to introduce an alternate option in the Crown Store, but I think it would help with some of these issues.

smacky wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

smacky wrote: »

And, yes, if you’re this adamant that MM *needs* to be a baseline part of the guild trader system, then you are saying that the game also *needs* to be one step closer to a global auction house system, because that’s exactly what MM does.

Not true. MM, as per my previous reply applies only to YOUR guilds.

You can knit-pick the details of what I said, that’s fine. You’re still not getting this, though.

“Can I get a price check on [insert item]?” is still a common question in the chat. And, the answer is a universal price listing.

Homogenized. Global. Economy.

You didn’t get a global ah, but you got global pricing via an addon. I think you should just be happy Zos hasn’t decided to categorize these things as cheating.

I wasn't knit-picking. There is a VERY big difference between Your guilds and Global.

As for the PC Problem, that can be solved by people downloading TTC themselves. However if people are too lazy to do so, chances are they are going to find themselves getting screwed over anyway.

People will typically give them the lowest of the 2 prices, then offer a lowball offer to buy, and resell at the realistic price.
I saw someone attempt this 2 weeks ago, where the MM price they were given was 40k cheaper than the TTC avg with 300+ listings (and this was before the 18mil prices)

So all in all, yes I am "getting it".

As for calling this cheating .... seriously? I think you're just looking for an argument at this point.[/quote]

You are profoundly underestimating the effect that master merchant has, because you fail to understand its reach.

So it covers you and your five guilds A B C D E. And the next person in the roster has guilds A B F G H, 2 overlap. And the next person in the roster of A has guilds A D I J K, now bringing a total of 11 guilds being advised on the averages of those guilds.

Make guilds ABC one of the majors in each trade hub, like many of the biggest sellers do, and right there you have averages from the economy spanning the entire game world.

Esopricecheck is a free website updated BY HAND for the Xbox NA console economy, so it doesn’t cover every tiny bauble. It was updated a mere FOUR times in the past month (1/30, 2/8, 2/15, 2/25, 3/1) so that data has lagggggg. And while the website is free you have to pay for the app, while master merchant is embedded right there in the game. And while esopricecheck draws from 3 trade guilds, and rotates among 8 others, MM and TTC hits EVERY GUILD that even appears on the radar.

In all these ways, esopricecheck is way outgunned by MM and TTC and yet even that comparatively tiny stabilizing factor of uniformity brought nearly every seller from the backwoods of hews bane to the closest kiosk to the capital wayshrive into an alignment of prices.

You underestimate the stabilizing factor of mm and ttc because you have no experiences of the game without it.

smacky wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Calling people “lazy” for not using 3rd party programs to get an unfair advantage is the most ridiculous argument here.

And you think saying people are lucky to not be called cheaters is?

As I said ... looking for an argument.

Using 3rd party programs to gain an advantage over other people in an aspect of an online game that is supposed to be competitive is called “cheating”.

Caff32 wrote: »

Honestly, while most of the information that MM provides is nice to have, a simple change to the console interface that allows the player to search for specific words would be the No. 1 thing they could do to improve the interface and it's not even close. The amount of time spent searching through page after page after page just looking for one particular item is infuriating.

Agreed, as a console player, I would be entirely satisfied if they only change made was a change allowing for a text search or an item set search. There is no reason for this not to exist.

(On a side note, being able to group items in your bank by set would be an amazing addition as well.)

Inarre wrote: »

I would be interested to see if eso implementing this into the base game would actually reduce stutter and other issues or if it would just load down the servers.

It can always be tested on PTS to determine that, but I doubt it would have an effect, as MM and TTC are simply pulling the data from the live servers anyway.

Cryptical wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Caff32 wrote: »

Honestly, while most of the information that MM provides is nice to have, a simple change to the console interface that allows the player to search for specific words would be the No. 1 thing they could do to improve the interface and it's not even close. The amount of time spent searching through page after page after page just looking for one particular item is infuriating.

Agreed, as a console player, I would be entirely satisfied if they only change made was a change allowing for a text search or an item set search. There is no reason for this not to exist.

(On a side note, being able to group items in your bank by set would be an amazing addition as well.)

As for grouping by set, a few updates ago they said they were changing item names so that the set name comes first, thus naturally grouping all items of sets together.

But with so many existing items to backtrack and modify, on top of all new sets being introduced, the Great Renaming has to be done in waves to ensure zero calamitous impacts happen. One typo or misplaced letter can make conflicts that break people’s golded-out hard farmed trial gear.

I don't doubt your intel on this, just a question of whether you know if they mentioned it including named weapons and armour pieces?

srfrogg23 wrote: »

smacky wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

smacky wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Calling people “lazy” for not using 3rd party programs to get an unfair advantage is the most ridiculous argument here.

And you think saying people are lucky to not be called cheaters is?

As I said ... looking for an argument.

Using 3rd party programs to gain an advantage over other people in an aspect of an online game that is supposed to be competitive is called “cheating”.

As I said ... looking for an argument


The definition of Cheating (Source: Google)

act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.
"she always cheats at cards"

gain an advantage over or deprive of something by using unfair or deceitful methods; defraud

The key point here is act dishonestly or unfairly or by using unfair or deceitful methods

So since you are clearly looking for an argument, I have happily reported that fact, and hopefully, now knowing the definition of the term Cheating puts your mind at rest that most of the people playing on PC are infact, Not Cheating.

Interesting. You’re using 3rd party programs to get information that other people don’t have to gain an advantage over them, and you reported me for pointing that out. Cherry-pick all you like, but you can’t deny that you have an unfair advantage over players who don’t use those programs and you’re benefiting from it.

The broader issue is that trade guilds who have this information can undercut other sellers, get the best trading locations, and dominate the economy to prevent other players from being able to achieve the same level of success.

Refusing to acknowledge that is pretty dishonest, but you take it a step further and blame people for not doing the same thing you’re doing.

You can have your opinion, and if you think it is cheating, then go and post your own thread asking if ZoS will treat it as such.

When you do so, you can ask them to consider ALL Mods, since every Mod gives people information at hand others do not have.

Since the game had a section in the menu called ADDONS, and in the Game's Menu under Settings is Addons, I Presume that ZoS consider this to not be cheating.

EVERY Mod is cheating by your standards.

[Edit to remove bait]

smacky wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Caff32 wrote: »

Honestly, while most of the information that MM provides is nice to have, a simple change to the console interface that allows the player to search for specific words would be the No. 1 thing they could do to improve the interface and it's not even close. The amount of time spent searching through page after page after page just looking for one particular item is infuriating.

Agreed, as a console player, I would be entirely satisfied if they only change made was a change allowing for a text search or an item set search. There is no reason for this not to exist.

(On a side note, being able to group items in your bank by set would be an amazing addition as well.)

As for grouping by set, a few updates ago they said they were changing item names so that the set name comes first, thus naturally grouping all items of sets together.

But with so many existing items to backtrack and modify, on top of all new sets being introduced, the Great Renaming has to be done in waves to ensure zero calamitous impacts happen. One typo or misplaced letter can make conflicts that break people’s golded-out hard farmed trial gear.

I don't doubt your intel on this, just a question of whether you know if they mentioned it including named weapons and armour pieces?

Off the top of my head, from the changes I’ve seen, and being unable to check at the moment, I’m nearly 100% positive that named items have been staying exactly as they are. Some of the sets I wear regularly have changed, but I knew it was going to be done and didn’t pay any further attention to which sets chanted. Because... well... it had zero impact on me beyond they are grouped together on those uncategorized inventory screens.

jaws343 wrote: »

Caff32 wrote: »

Honestly, while most of the information that MM provides is nice to have, a simple change to the console interface that allows the player to search for specific words would be the No. 1 thing they could do to improve the interface and it's not even close. The amount of time spent searching through page after page after page just looking for one particular item is infuriating.

Agreed, as a console player, I would be entirely satisfied if they only change made was a change allowing for a text search or an item set search. There is no reason for this not to exist.

Heck, I'd love to see it as a PC player. Not being in any trade guilds, and not selling anything except to vendors, I don't run any Trade addons. If the default UI had a search bar, I might actually buy more than 1 or 2 things every couple months. (This economy really has very little encouragement to participate in it.)

zyk wrote: »

TL;DR: MM causes a lot of performance issues. Many of its features are essential. They could be implemented by ZOS in a way that would eliminate the performance impact. Should improving the trader interface be a priority for ZOS?

In regards to the performance issues, MM is... not very well optimized. There's multiple improvements which could be applied to make it more perfomant, the issue is just getting someone to do those improvements. If those improvements were done, it's likely that it wouldn't be an issue ZOS had to address.