Sets with Wasted Bonuses

InFernalEntity · March 2018

Shacklebreaker 4pc: 129 Magicka + Stamina recovery.
Hybrids don't really need sustain on sets. It's the one thing hybrids can do better in most cases. Also if jewellery crafting is on the cards this is definitely going to be combined with Acuity so changing the bonus to weapon and spell crit will still be wasted.

Tava's Favour 3/4 pc: Stamina and Magicka recovery as seperate bonuses. One of them should go.
If this was supposed to be a hybrid set then both recovery bonuses are wasted. If it wasn't, one of the bonuses is still wasted. If it was supposed to be for tanks Akaviri Dragonguard set still does a better job of spamming war horns.

Willow's Path: the entire set.
Health recovery.
Stamina recovery
Magicka recovery
Increase health, stam and mag recovery by 15%
No one needs 3 different forms of recovery except maybe tanks. And even then this is too much recovery with the 5pc bonus added. Would really only be worth the 5pc if it buffed a groups recovery.

Oblivion's Foe: the whole set.
Health recovery
Stam recovery
Mag recovery
Double damage from soul trap.
Really.
Double damage from 1 ability (and morphs!)

Pelinal's Aptitude: 3 and 4 pc.
Stamina recovery
Magicka recovery
Again a Hybrid set with recovery is just kinda wasted.

I've really just focused on Craftable Sets but if anyone can think of more sets with wasted bonuses feel free to add to the list.

The List (set / wasted bonus):
Shacklebreaker / 4pc
Tava's Favour / 3 or 4pc
Willow's Path / full set
Oblivion's Foe / full set
Pelinal's Aptitude / 3 + 4 pc

Illurian · March 2018

Technically speaking Mechanical Acuity has wasted set bonuses but yet it's still rapidly becoming BiS for many builds.

I don't think having "wasted" 2-4 bonuses automatically means that the set is worthless or sub-optimal. Could be quite the contrary really.

Lynx7386 · March 2018

Sounds like you've got a bone to pick with recovery.

Many of the sets you listed are tanking sets. Tanks need recovery (at least magicka recovery). Any tank using a shield front bar and ice staff back bar can benefit from both stamina and magicka recovery by alternating which weapon they block with to manage resources.

The only 'hybrids' that actually work in this game are tanks, so you're a little off in your assessment that hybrids do not need recovery.

code65536 · March 2018

ROTFL.

You realize that the stamina recovery from Shacklebreaker is a big reason why most magicka characters in PvP use Shackle, right? Because when you run out of stamina to dodge, break, etc., is when you die. Same goes with Amber Plasm. "Wasted"? This is its raison d'être!

As for the rest, the problem with Willow's Path is that health recovery is trash in general. Tava used to be a favorite tank set back in the day, before various nerfs made it irrelevant. Oblivion's Foe has always been trash--more of a thematic set than anything useful. And Pelinal... well, aside from the fact that hybrids still don't work, why on earth do you think that recovery is "wasted" on a set that is specifically aimed at hybrids?

idk · March 2018

I thin Code said it all very well.

Maryal · March 2018

Sounds like you have a phobia regarding dual-recovery sets (both magica and stamina recovery). Happens sometimes ... sad really. Best wishes on a speedy recovery.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2018

Gotta agree with code here. Many use these sets because it has a non-main-stat bonus of some sort.

Not sure when it was determined that a set has to be strictly a stam/mag/role set.

Your recommendation reduced diversity vice encouraging it.

Leandor · March 2018

Never mind. I had an acute case of the stoopid, right here...

Asardes · March 2018

Maximum stamina recovery on sets such as Amber Plasm or Shackle Breaker is in fact very good because it allows Magicka users to stay at full stamina and have enough to roll dodge and break free. Same goes for maximum magicka or magicka recovery on sets that are meant for stamina users, since many class utility abilities run on magicka. So they aren't "wasted" at all, since those things are very important in PvP.

RavenSworn · March 2018

Leandor wrote: »

Never mind. I had an acute case of the stoopid, right here...

It still works with nb tanks, given they are the only ones that have an on-demand major evasion. (wardens too but it's minor. And it's wardens... Why would they use tava)

Ankael07 · March 2018

Oblivion's foe would be slightly useful if it was something like 3 max attributes + the 5th bonus sticking on the enemy for the duration of Soul Trap so some players can backbar the set.

But then there is no problem of Soul trap being weak even with the set...

Kanar · March 2018

Fixing Pelinals aptitude 3 + 4pc bonuses would go a long way towards making hybrids viable (make them strong bonuses like dual max stam/mag). That and jewelry crafting.

NyassaV · March 2018

Troll Post?

Lynx7386 · March 2018

Maryal wrote: »

Sounds like you have a phobia regarding dual-recovery sets (both magica and stamina recovery). Happens sometimes ... sad really. Best wishes on a speedy recovery.

What you did there. I seent it.

InFernalEntity · March 2018

This was purely from a PVE perspective. I really had no idea people were using shacklebreaker to roll dodge in PVP. I just thought a set aimed at hybrids giving recovery seemed a little off.

In a similar vein... Acuity is a set aimed at hybrids that's performing so well that people don't mind the wasted damage bonus because it gives people everything they want from a set.
Crit, damage and max resource. Although considering it's clearly a hybrid set it's hard to deem the secondary damage bonus as a waste.

As far as tanks needing recovery, this is true. But there are better sets and other ways. Glyphs. Mundus stones. Singular piece monster sets. Heavy attacks. Heavy armour passives. Racial passives potentially.

Also yes. Health recovery is trash and in most cases should be replaced with literally anything else.

Nestor · March 2018

You also need to disavow yourself that everyone plays the Meta. Most of us don't. Most of us realize that chasing that extra 1% to 5% is not going to get us anywhere any faster. Reason, if you don't have a perfect rotation, then the meta does not really benefit you all that much compared to another set.

However a set that works with each persons playstyle for that build or class does provide a benefit.

Asardes · March 2018

Mechanical Acuity is not aimed at hybrids, since it still favors a dominant the "flavor" of attacks determined by your build and other sets. It's in fact comparable to how Twice Born Star used to work, with Shadow & Thief mundi before the Major Force changes and then the reduction to those mundi effects. For example at 50% critical MA gives you ~13% extra effective critical chance on top of that, in addition to a spell damage, weapon damage and max stat bonus, which is slightly more than Thief would give with full divines. The worse your base critical, the better MA becomes, for example at 32% base chance (ex. a Sorcerer wearing Necropotence, benefiting from Spell Precision CP passive and Major Prophecy), the bonus given by MA is ~17% effective critical chance.

code65536 · March 2018

Nestor wrote: »

You also need to disavow yourself that everyone plays the Meta. Most of us don't. Most of us realize that chasing that extra 1% to 5% is not going to get us anywhere any faster. Reason, if you don't have a perfect rotation, then the meta does not really benefit you all that much compared to another set.

However a set that works with each persons playstyle for that build or class does provide a benefit.

But Shacklebreaker is the meta in PvP, for exactly the reason the OP dismisses it.

Brrrofski · March 2018

Well firstly you're looking at them all wrong. Every class needs stamina and Magica. Any Magica class makes use of stamina or stamina regen to help with breaking stuns.

Every stamina class uses Magica for buffs. Stamina dk uses volatile sometimes and igneous a lot. Stamplar needs to use ritual a lot. Stamina warden has bird of prey and shimmering shield which you want big uptime on. Stamina sorc uses streak a lot. Stamina nb needs very good Magica sustain for cloak, fear and shadow image. So much so that I even use atronach mundus on mine.

So anything with stamina and Magica recovery is not wasted. Willows path health regen isn't useless either. Put it on something that has an amp to health recovery such as orc, khajit or nightblade and pair it with troll king as well and you have a lot of survivability as health regen isn't halved in pvp like healing is. So it's nice on a stamblade for instance which hasn't got great healing.

Tavas is criminally underrated on a stamina nb in pvp as you roll dodge a LOT so you get ulti like crazy.

I agree about ovlivion's foe though. Like... Who runs that?

You missed a lot of worse ones too.

Off top of my head...
Undaunted bastion/Weaver
Ashen grip
Things like juggernaut/aspect of mazzatun - cool down is way too high to be useful
Light speaker
Hatchling shell
Prayer shawl
Sword dancer

There's loads more. Way too many to name them all...

InFernalEntity · March 2018

To my discredit I did totally blank on the effectiveness of these sets in PvP situations. And I was also only focusing on the crafted sets but as far as dropped sets I'll agree that those are pretty useless. The undaunted sets especially are quite lacking.

Chilly-McFreeze · March 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

You also need to disavow yourself that everyone plays the Meta. Most of us don't. Most of us realize that chasing that extra 1% to 5% is not going to get us anywhere any faster. Reason, if you don't have a perfect rotation, then the meta does not really benefit you all that much compared to another set.

However a set that works with each persons playstyle for that build or class does provide a benefit.

But Shacklebreaker is the meta in PvP, for exactly the reason the OP dismisses it.

What? OP writest:
"Shacklebreaker 4pc: 129 Magicka + Stamina recovery.
Hybrids don't really need sustain on sets. It's the one thing hybrids can do better in most cases. Also if jewellery crafting is on the cards this is definitely going to be combined with Acuity so changing the bonus to weapon and spell crit will still be wasted."

The double recovery is very useful for non-hybrids. Especially the stam recovery for mag builds. And if jewellery crafting is coming is still a big "if", so not a strong argument.

Joshuagm1991 · March 2018

Weapon damage on the ice furnace set.

fred4 · March 2018

The health recovery from a set like Willow's Path has it's uses when you combine it with Troll King and an appropriate race (Nord, Orc, Khajiit) for a PvP tank. A fairly niche use, but still.

On the other hand, if you combine it with Troll King, tri-drinks, and a proc set, such as Viper, you actually end up with a viable, albeit non-meta, PvP DD build. Once you push health recovery above 1K, you do notice it in PvP. This is not affected by Battle Spirit, thus arguably twice as effective as in PvE. I don't run that exact build anymore, but my Nord stam DK uses wings, which are magicka hungry, and has always functioned best on tri-stat drinks. I used Willow's Path when I first started the game 2 1/2 years ago. Might give it another shot.

As for Shacklebreaker, I know it's been said already, but it's one of the best stamina and magicka PvP sets, period. On magicka classes for break free and dodge rolling. On stamina classes for utility skills, Fear, Cloak, Fossilize, Wings, Dark Deal, Extended Ritual, and so on. Even the weapon damage isn't completely wasted on a magicka 2H/DW/1H+S build, since it will slightly increase your light attacks.

Sawzallz · March 2018

Destruction staff with a stam set
Drugal king slayer

Asardes · March 2018

^That's ZoS idea of "intelligent drops"

Silver_Strider · March 2018

Sithis

Entire set is white hot trash and a complete waste of all 5 bonuses IMO.

2 Health bonuses
Weapon and Spell Crit
Major Berserk after using BoW.

If this set was intended for anything other than decon/vendor fodder, I'd like to hear it; I need a good laugh. This is the DARK BROTHERHOOD for goodness sake. This armor should have been a sneaky assassins Wet Dream but if this is what the DB is using, it's small wonder half of them are killed during their story . My thoughts to improve it.

2p Changed to Stamina/Magic Regen
3p Improve sneak radius, ignore sneak movement penalty
4p unchaged
5p % chance that you'll become invisible when executing with the BoW.

Yes, it's still useless outside of Heists/Sacraments or farming Dried Blood but at least it has a function now instead of the crap that it is now.

Minno · March 2018

Way of the Air. 4pc bonus extends your stealth detection range.

Should be health if they wanted to make the set more hybrid friendly (or very least, max stamina).

Sixty5 · March 2018

Double recovery is actually really nice in PVP where you are using your off resource for utility.

idk · March 2018

InFernalEntity wrote: »

This was purely from a PVE perspective. I really had no idea people were using shacklebreaker to roll dodge in PVP. I just thought a set aimed at hybrids giving recovery seemed a little off.

In a similar vein... Acuity is a set aimed at hybrids that's performing so well that people don't mind the wasted damage bonus because it gives people everything they want from a set.
Crit, damage and max resource. Although considering it's clearly a hybrid set it's hard to deem the secondary damage bonus as a waste.

As far as tanks needing recovery, this is true. But there are better sets and other ways. Glyphs. Mundus stones. Singular piece monster sets. Heavy attacks. Heavy armour passives. Racial passives potentially.

Also yes. Health recovery is trash and in most cases should be replaced with literally anything else.

This thread is a good example of seeing the bigger picture out oppinions into perspective or completely changes them once we see how other areas of the game are played.

WrathOfInnos · March 2018

Undaunted unweaver and infiltrator. The 2 and 3 piece bonuses should be changed to the useful resource (mag for light armor, stam for medium).

SkyIsTheLimit1206 · March 2018

All the Oblivion sets... well, I guess "both"

You listed one: Oblivion's Foe, doubles the damage for a single ability that people only use to fill their soul gems

Second one: Oblivion's Edge, which when you kill an enemy you heal for a tiny amount (~1K health?!) and fill a soul gem

WTF BRING BACK HONOR TO SETS NAMED AFTER ELDER SCROLLS IV