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Should there be a CP catch up mechanic? Should we be able to buy them?
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DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »why not? 1k crowns/10 CP... no I would not have it other way! VIVA CASUALS! *insert casual shrine prayer*
Grrrr. Let's not assume all casual players want stuff like this. I think this is more desired by "omg, I want to get to end game like right now so I can do all the reallllly cool stuff".
Casuals aren't necessarily lazy.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KiraTsukasa wrote: »Yeah, let's make this game pay to win.
Because Battlefront 2 pulled that off quite well.
You argue that is pay to win but others argue CP doesn't make a difference and worry only if the players can pull their own weight. If CP has no real value then how is it paying to win?
Unless of course you agree that CP gives people a significant advantage.
CP gives access to certain perks and passives as you gain more CP. You don't see a problem with players essentially buying their way to those perks and passives instead of earning those benefits through playing the game or, at the very least, experiencing the game through grinding?Edited by VaranisArano on February 28, 2018 7:30PM0 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only other reason this is an issue is due to elitism. The game could resolve this problem by "hiding" your CP or only showing a max of CP 160.
There are players in this game that will refuse to run with people below the cap. This can discourage new players heavily and even drive them to quit.
That's not a game issue. That's a player issue (and a small minority at that). Hiding CP won't stop elitism.
Everyone I run with has no issue running with people below cap. If we're running vet content though, everyone pulls their weight. If you're not, you're out. Doesn't matter what level you are.
Brings me back to my point about the clueless high CP players. There are a lot of them, and they are a real problem when you're filling out a group through DF or for a trial.
This misguided fixation on CP level as a means of gauging skill is indeed a problem, but it's not a game problem. It's a player perception problem.
Your argument provides that removing CP visibility would benefit us.
Not at all. Removing CP visibility doesn't fix anything. All it does is obscure what little information we have. Like it or not, most high CP players do know their stuff. There obviously isn't a real correlation between CP level and skill level, but the fact remains that we have no other means with which to tell a player's skill level at a glance.
For endgame PvE, that ability is vital to forming a good group, especially for trials. CP level is all we have atm, aside from a couple player titles that not everyone uses.
Elitism grows out of the lack of real, substantive information regarding a player's skill level. While I firmly believe that most content doesn't require everyone be at their best, the hardest content in the game does. There is no room for scrubs in endgame PvE (vet DLCs and trials), especially when most people in those runs are looking for achievement clears. That's not elitism, that's just sad fact.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa0 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Elitism grows out of the lack of real, substantive information regarding a player's skill level. While I firmly believe that most content doesn't require everyone be at their best, the hardest content in the game does. There is no room for scrubs in endgame PvE (vet DLCs and trials), especially when most people in those runs are looking for achievement clears. That's not elitism, that's just sad fact.
Sidenote: DPS Parses are nearly as useless as CP in telling a player's skill level. The amount of cheese I see is enough to give me a coronary event.xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »why not? 1k crowns/10 CP... no I would not have it other way! VIVA CASUALS! *insert casual shrine prayer*
Xeno stop trolling, you know you're not going to pay $700+ for max CP.Unless of course you agree that CP gives people a significant advantage.
Dunno bout him, but I've said before that CP does give a slight augmentation to your character, but only if you know what you're doing. You need game knowledge to really make the most of your CP allocations. Following a build guide isn't going to cut it.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa0 -
SilverIce58✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only other reason this is an issue is due to elitism. The game could resolve this problem by "hiding" your CP or only showing a max of CP 160.
There are players in this game that will refuse to run with people below the cap. This can discourage new players heavily and even drive them to quit.
That's not a game issue. That's a player issue (and a small minority at that). Hiding CP won't stop elitism.
Everyone I run with has no issue running with people below cap. If we're running vet content though, everyone pulls their weight. If you're not, you're out. Doesn't matter what level you are.
Brings me back to my point about the clueless high CP players. There are a lot of them, and they are a real problem when you're filling out a group through DF or for a trial.
This misguided fixation on CP level as a means of gauging skill is indeed a problem, but it's not a game problem. It's a player perception problem.
Your argument provides that removing CP visibility would benefit us.
No way. The same people who currently kick players who don't have x amount of CP, are the ones who would say things like "Tell us your CP or leave." Now of course, you could make the argument that low CP players (i.e. CP 10-150) would just lie and say they're higher than they are, but when gear starts dropping at below 160 those players who lied would then get kicked.PC - NACP 1125
Veric Blackwood - Breton Magsorc DC
Xhiak-Qua'cthurus - Argonian Frost Warden EP
Kujata-qa - Khajiit Magplar AD
Suunleth-dar - Khajiit Stamblade AD
Teldryn Antharys - Dunmer Flame DK EP
Strikes-With-Venom - Argonian Poison DK EP
Rur'san-ra - Khajiit WW Stamsorc AD
Ilianos Solinar - Altmer Stamplar AD
Iscah Silver-Heart - Reachman Magden DC1 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverIce58 wrote: »The only other reason this is an issue is due to elitism. The game could resolve this problem by "hiding" your CP or only showing a max of CP 160.
There are players in this game that will refuse to run with people below the cap. This can discourage new players heavily and even drive them to quit.
That's not a game issue. That's a player issue (and a small minority at that). Hiding CP won't stop elitism.
Everyone I run with has no issue running with people below cap. If we're running vet content though, everyone pulls their weight. If you're not, you're out. Doesn't matter what level you are.
Brings me back to my point about the clueless high CP players. There are a lot of them, and they are a real problem when you're filling out a group through DF or for a trial.
This misguided fixation on CP level as a means of gauging skill is indeed a problem, but it's not a game problem. It's a player perception problem.
Your argument provides that removing CP visibility would benefit us.
No way. The same people who currently kick players who don't have x amount of CP, are the ones who would say things like "Tell us your CP or leave." Now of course, you could make the argument that low CP players (i.e. CP 10-150) would just lie and say they're higher than they are, but when gear starts dropping at below 160 those players who lied would then get kicked.
Lol, didn't consider that. I guess certain people would just suggest we ban group loot logs then.
Slippery slope there.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverIce58 wrote: »The only other reason this is an issue is due to elitism. The game could resolve this problem by "hiding" your CP or only showing a max of CP 160.
There are players in this game that will refuse to run with people below the cap. This can discourage new players heavily and even drive them to quit.
That's not a game issue. That's a player issue (and a small minority at that). Hiding CP won't stop elitism.
Everyone I run with has no issue running with people below cap. If we're running vet content though, everyone pulls their weight. If you're not, you're out. Doesn't matter what level you are.
Brings me back to my point about the clueless high CP players. There are a lot of them, and they are a real problem when you're filling out a group through DF or for a trial.
This misguided fixation on CP level as a means of gauging skill is indeed a problem, but it's not a game problem. It's a player perception problem.
Your argument provides that removing CP visibility would benefit us.
No way. The same people who currently kick players who don't have x amount of CP, are the ones who would say things like "Tell us your CP or leave." Now of course, you could make the argument that low CP players (i.e. CP 10-150) would just lie and say they're higher than they are, but when gear starts dropping at below 160 those players who lied would then get kicked.
Lol, didn't consider that. I guess certain people would just suggest we ban group loot logs then.
Slippery slope there.
You say that, but there are definitely people who find group loot logs annoying. Usually because some people can't take "No" for an answer.
People. We're why we can't have nice things.2 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »SilverIce58 wrote: »The only other reason this is an issue is due to elitism. The game could resolve this problem by "hiding" your CP or only showing a max of CP 160.
There are players in this game that will refuse to run with people below the cap. This can discourage new players heavily and even drive them to quit.
That's not a game issue. That's a player issue (and a small minority at that). Hiding CP won't stop elitism.
Everyone I run with has no issue running with people below cap. If we're running vet content though, everyone pulls their weight. If you're not, you're out. Doesn't matter what level you are.
Brings me back to my point about the clueless high CP players. There are a lot of them, and they are a real problem when you're filling out a group through DF or for a trial.
This misguided fixation on CP level as a means of gauging skill is indeed a problem, but it's not a game problem. It's a player perception problem.
Your argument provides that removing CP visibility would benefit us.
No way. The same people who currently kick players who don't have x amount of CP, are the ones who would say things like "Tell us your CP or leave." Now of course, you could make the argument that low CP players (i.e. CP 10-150) would just lie and say they're higher than they are, but when gear starts dropping at below 160 those players who lied would then get kicked.
Lol, didn't consider that. I guess certain people would just suggest we ban group loot logs then.
Slippery slope there.
You say that, but there are definitely people who find group loot logs annoying. Usually because some people can't take "No" for an answer.
People. We're why we can't have nice things.
Yeah I remember that thread not too long ago. I think the general consensus was something like this:
PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa0 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Juju_beans wrote: »
Maybe, but mount upgrades are already sold, and why skyshards? Why not full skillpoints?
IDK, this thread is going to weird places now.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa0 -
Kolache✭✭✭✭So there are all sorts of nodes in the CP trees that no build would ever want, right? Stamina damage stuff for magicka builds and vice versa... armor bonuses for armor you're not wearing, etc.
I think maybe an interesting future system would be to have the default 0 CP/new character get all points evenly distributed across all nodes. Then as you unlock CP you actually subtract them from nodes you don't care about to add them to ones you do. Sort of like Ultima Online's stat system was back in the day.
That would create a baseline that would be much easier to balance the game around (for PvE and PvP), and of course still leave tons of incentive to level while also never leaving new characters painfully behind regardless of how much the CP cap gets raised.Something being unbalanced in 1v1 does not imply that it is balanced in group play.0 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Terrible idea.
A: there already IS a catch-up mechanic integrated into the game
B: CPs influence character power, therefore this is simply P2W
And if you still think CPs will turn your 10k DPS into 40k DPS, you are dead wrong.
At least unskilled people with max CP are aware how much they actually suck, now that target skeletons are a thing.
Before Homestead people were calling BS on all DPS sharing methods simply because they could only dream of good DPS.0 -
ewhite106b16_ESO✭✭✭CP shouldn't be sold, but the catch up mechanics and enlightment need a big buff. Sure, you get CP fairly quickly after coming back from a long break but that doesn't last, after your accumulated enlightenment runs out it's back to 1-2 CP per day unless you want to waste time doing laps around skyreach or grinding zombies. When you're 300+ points away from cap that 1-2 points per day of regular playing is a rediculously small drop in the bucket.
You don't learn anything from deliberately grinding CP or running lower end content/older veteran dungeons endlessly while waiting for your CP to go up. It's just a massive waste of time standing between players and where they want to be (especially for PVP considering the vast majority of players play on the CP servers). I've played the game on and off since launch and I did the original V16 grind....the only good point about CP is that it's shared account wide, aside from that the grind is WORSE then VR levels used to be.
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LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Terrible idea.
A: there already IS a catch-up mechanic integrated into the game
B: CPs influence character power, therefore this is simply P2W
And if you still think CPs will turn your 10k DPS into 40k DPS, you are dead wrong.
At least unskilled people with max CP are aware how much they actually suck, now that target skeletons are a thing.
Before Homestead people were calling BS on all DPS sharing methods simply because they could only dream of good DPS.
No one thinks that CP will turn their 10k DPS into 40k DPS. This dumb strawman has been beat to death in this thread.
And yes, there is a CP catch-up mechanism, but obviously the point of this thread is that some people don't think it is sufficient given that cap is 200+ CP greater than it was when said mechanism was implemented and it now takes far, far more XP to go from 50-->cap.0 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »Terrible idea.
A: there already IS a catch-up mechanic integrated into the game
B: CPs influence character power, therefore this is simply P2W
And if you still think CPs will turn your 10k DPS into 40k DPS, you are dead wrong.
At least unskilled people with max CP are aware how much they actually suck, now that target skeletons are a thing.
Before Homestead people were calling BS on all DPS sharing methods simply because they could only dream of good DPS.
No one thinks that CP will turn their 10k DPS into 40k DPS. This dumb strawman has been beat to death in this thread.
And yes, there is a CP catch-up mechanism, but obviously the point of this thread is that some people don't think it is sufficient given that cap is 200+ CP greater than it was when said mechanism was implemented and it now takes far, far more XP to go from 50-->cap.
The real main point of the thread was if CP should be bought for $$$. Not the xp to get to cap. The OP is all about buying CP with $$$. Which is a terrible idea.
If OP wants an in-game CP catch-up mechanic, it already exists with Enlightenment. I think its sufficient, though I'd be open to adjusting the 400k per day to something like 600k per day, and extending (or removing) the current 12 day accruement cap.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa0 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭LiquidPony wrote: »Terrible idea.
A: there already IS a catch-up mechanic integrated into the game
B: CPs influence character power, therefore this is simply P2W
And if you still think CPs will turn your 10k DPS into 40k DPS, you are dead wrong.
At least unskilled people with max CP are aware how much they actually suck, now that target skeletons are a thing.
Before Homestead people were calling BS on all DPS sharing methods simply because they could only dream of good DPS.
No one thinks that CP will turn their 10k DPS into 40k DPS. This dumb strawman has been beat to death in this thread.
And yes, there is a CP catch-up mechanism, but obviously the point of this thread is that some people don't think it is sufficient given that cap is 200+ CP greater than it was when said mechanism was implemented and it now takes far, far more XP to go from 50-->cap.
The real main point of the thread was if CP should be bought for $$$. Not the xp to get to cap. The OP is all about buying CP with $$$. Which is a terrible idea.
If OP wants an in-game CP catch-up mechanic, it already exists with Enlightenment. I think its sufficient, though I'd be open to adjusting the 400k per day to something like 600k per day, and extending (or removing) the current 12 day accruement cap.
Not to mention he can buy 150% exp scrolls, then simply Skyreach.0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »Terrible idea.
A: there already IS a catch-up mechanic integrated into the game
B: CPs influence character power, therefore this is simply P2W
And if you still think CPs will turn your 10k DPS into 40k DPS, you are dead wrong.
At least unskilled people with max CP are aware how much they actually suck, now that target skeletons are a thing.
Before Homestead people were calling BS on all DPS sharing methods simply because they could only dream of good DPS.
No one thinks that CP will turn their 10k DPS into 40k DPS. This dumb strawman has been beat to death in this thread.
And yes, there is a CP catch-up mechanism, but obviously the point of this thread is that some people don't think it is sufficient given that cap is 200+ CP greater than it was when said mechanism was implemented and it now takes far, far more XP to go from 50-->cap.
The real main point of the thread was if CP should be bought for $$$. Not the xp to get to cap. The OP is all about buying CP with $$$. Which is a terrible idea.
If OP wants an in-game CP catch-up mechanic, it already exists with Enlightenment. I think its sufficient, though I'd be open to adjusting the 400k per day to something like 600k per day, and extending (or removing) the current 12 day accruement cap.
Not to mention he can buy 150% exp scrolls, then simply Skyreach.
You can't buy 150% experience scrolls. Not directly, anyway.0 -
Trensharo✭✭✭Ep1kMalware wrote: »Peekachu99 wrote: »What you’re suggesting is the definition of P2W. CP heavily influence power. Absolutely not. You can already affect the leveling system through Ambrosia and XP scrolls. That’s enough.
Don't forget enlightenment and the massive exp you can get from a random dungeon.
27 months of enlightenment (literally not logging in since the transition from VR to CP on a level 50+ character (on console) - maybe they started it not that long ago) is only enough for about <= 200 CPs. I'm doubting you can get to 200 with that, since I got like 50+ free CPs from the VR to CP System switch soon after I leveled to 50 on console (that's how long it's been since I had played that character). Maybe you'll get to 160.
These "Enlightenment" posts are a complete joke. No one should take that as seriously as you seem to think they should).
That character I have had been gaining Enlightenment basically since they implemented it, so it's not really as "great" as you make it out to be. Yes, the CP gain during daily dungeons is fine... But how much do you have to... NOT play the game to benefit from that?Edited by Trensharo on March 1, 2018 12:20AM0 -
crjs1✭✭✭✭✭Enlightenment is woefully small. IMO it should be at least doubled, the rate of CP gain from actually playing - quests, dungeons - is so slow.
It hilarious reading those people complaining that CP meaningless, while at the same time so vehemently against making them easier to gain.... Same people also advising people grind Skyreach which literally teaches no skill at all after first run. If people want to buy CP what difference does that make to anyone else?1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Enlightenment is woefully small. IMO it should be at least doubled, the rate of CP gain from actually playing - quests, dungeons - is so slow.
It hilarious reading those people complaining that CP meaningless, while at the same time so vehemently against making them easier to gain.... Same people also advising people grind Skyreach which literally teaches no skill at all after first run. If people want to buy CP what difference does that make to anyone else?
CP aren't entirely meaningless. You do get benefits for having more of them in terms of passives, perks, and increased resources.
Grinding also isn't entirely worthless. Obviously, I don't believe that Skyreach or Dolmen grinding adequately prepares most players who do it exclusively for end-game content or Veteran dungeons, but at the very least fighting in Skyreach/dolmens involves using some skills and experiencing some basic game mechanics like blocking, bashing, and not standing in stupid. I happen to think it teaches you far less about how to play than actually playing the game, questing, and doing group content, but I understand why people grind to reach a certain level or CP number.
Buying CP teaches you nothing. Buying CP gets you the benefits of that CP for $$$, not effort. Buying CP gives you the appearance of having experienced the game, when in fact you have very little player experience.0 -
Zalicius✭✭✭Enlightenment is woefully small. IMO it should be at least doubled, the rate of CP gain from actually playing - quests, dungeons - is so slow.
It hilarious reading those people complaining that CP meaningless, while at the same time so vehemently against making them easier to gain.... Same people also advising people grind Skyreach which literally teaches no skill at all after first run. If people want to buy CP what difference does that make to anyone else?
I agree. If you really want to see how much it makes a difference make a new character and kill mobs before and after assigning your CP points. I notice quite a bit of difference.0 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Enlightenment is woefully small. IMO it should be at least doubled, the rate of CP gain from actually playing - quests, dungeons - is so slow.
It hilarious reading those people complaining that CP meaningless, while at the same time so vehemently against making them easier to gain.... Same people also advising people grind Skyreach which literally teaches no skill at all after first run. If people want to buy CP what difference does that make to anyone else?
CP aren't entirely meaningless. You do get benefits for having more of them in terms of passives, perks, and increased resources.
Grinding also isn't entirely worthless. Obviously, I don't believe that Skyreach or Dolmen grinding adequately prepares most players who do it exclusively for end-game content or Veteran dungeons, but at the very least fighting in Skyreach/dolmens involves using some skills and experiencing some basic game mechanics like blocking, bashing, and not standing in stupid. I happen to think it teaches you far less about how to play than actually playing the game, questing, and doing group content, but I understand why people grind to reach a certain level or CP number.
Buying CP teaches you nothing. Buying CP gets you the benefits of that CP for $$$, not effort. Buying CP gives you the appearance of having experienced the game, when in fact you have very little player experience.
Yup, nobody is claiming CP is meaningless. Only that its importance is overstated.
Grinding CP without learning the game means you have little to no experience, and thus are probably going to suck. Buying CP is the same result.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa0 -
Trensharo✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Enlightenment is woefully small. IMO it should be at least doubled, the rate of CP gain from actually playing - quests, dungeons - is so slow.
It hilarious reading those people complaining that CP meaningless, while at the same time so vehemently against making them easier to gain.... Same people also advising people grind Skyreach which literally teaches no skill at all after first run. If people want to buy CP what difference does that make to anyone else?
CP aren't entirely meaningless. You do get benefits for having more of them in terms of passives, perks, and increased resources.
Grinding also isn't entirely worthless. Obviously, I don't believe that Skyreach or Dolmen grinding adequately prepares most players who do it exclusively for end-game content or Veteran dungeons, but at the very least fighting in Skyreach/dolmens involves using some skills and experiencing some basic game mechanics like blocking, bashing, and not standing in stupid. I happen to think it teaches you far less about how to play than actually playing the game, questing, and doing group content, but I understand why people grind to reach a certain level or CP number.
Buying CP teaches you nothing. Buying CP gets you the benefits of that CP for $$$, not effort. Buying CP gives you the appearance of having experienced the game, when in fact you have very little player experience.
Going to Alik'r Desert and basically holding down Left Click while you run around to tag everything teaches you what about playing the game, again?
There are about 50 players at those Dolmen. There is no time to "play the game." And there is no point in farming Dolmen Solo when you can insta-kill three in-circuit with a zerg. Skyreach doesn't teach you much, especially if you don't plan to play the builds that farm them best at end-game, anyways.
People are going out of their way to make the alternatives look significantly better than they are.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Enlightenment is woefully small. IMO it should be at least doubled, the rate of CP gain from actually playing - quests, dungeons - is so slow.
It hilarious reading those people complaining that CP meaningless, while at the same time so vehemently against making them easier to gain.... Same people also advising people grind Skyreach which literally teaches no skill at all after first run. If people want to buy CP what difference does that make to anyone else?
CP aren't entirely meaningless. You do get benefits for having more of them in terms of passives, perks, and increased resources.
Grinding also isn't entirely worthless. Obviously, I don't believe that Skyreach or Dolmen grinding adequately prepares most players who do it exclusively for end-game content or Veteran dungeons, but at the very least fighting in Skyreach/dolmens involves using some skills and experiencing some basic game mechanics like blocking, bashing, and not standing in stupid. I happen to think it teaches you far less about how to play than actually playing the game, questing, and doing group content, but I understand why people grind to reach a certain level or CP number.
Buying CP teaches you nothing. Buying CP gets you the benefits of that CP for $$$, not effort. Buying CP gives you the appearance of having experienced the game, when in fact you have very little player experience.
Going to Alik'r Desert and basically holding down Left Click while you run around to tag everything teaches you what about playing the game, again?
There are about 50 players at those Dolmen. There is no time to "play the game." And there is no point in farming Dolmen Solo when you can insta-kill three in-circuit with a zerg. Skyreach doesn't teach you much, especially if you don't plan to play the builds that farm them best at end-game, anyways.
People are going out of their way to make the alternatives look significantly better than they are.
So, uh, what point are you making? Grinding doesn't teach you much, but its at least possible that you might learn something about the game while grinding. Buying CP teaches you zilch, zero, nada.1 -
xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Phage stop trolling? people come here and demand buyable XP...you think ZoS wont provide? Blizzard said they will never do it...and they did it...I think its also a matter of time until ZoS will do it as well... and I don't need to buy a thing since im capped...0 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I'd be ok with a 50% increase.
I think the bigger issue is the 12 day accruement cap. That should be extended considerably, if not outright removed. Should make it easier for people who are gone for a while to catch up when they come back.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa0
This discussion has been closed.