Should there be a CP catch up mechanic? Should we be able to buy them?

LiquidPony · February 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Throughout this thread (and others like it), I've seen it said that the XP necessary to reach cap is always the same, regardless of the cap..

From the patch notes where CP was increased..I bolded the important part.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/394810/pc-mac-patch-notes-v3-3-5-dragon-bones-update-17#latest

Champion Point Increase
The Champion Point cap has been raised by 30 points (10 in each red/blue/green constellation) for a total of 720 Champion Points. The Champion Point experience curve has been automatically adjusted with this new cap so earlier Champion Points require less experience and can be earned faster.

@Juju_beans

Did you actually read the sentence that you bolded?

Nowhere does it say "it takes the same amount of XP to reach the cap of 720 as it did to reach prior caps." In fact, it says exactly what the math I posted in my prior comment says, and supports exactly what my conclusion was. Earlier champion points do in fact require less experience and can be earned faster. One quick look at the formula ought to confirm that for anyone capable of doing basic math.

The fact remains that as the cap increases, the XP required to reach cap increases (it takes about 40% more XP to reach cap today than it did at CP501). The math proves it. Not really sure how to be any more clear than that.

LiquidPony · February 2018

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

There are several solutions to this growing problem. If you don't think it's a problem keep in mind we're getting closer to 1,000 CP.
Offer more double or triple XP weekends. Maybe one a month.

Make high XP potions/scrolls more accessible. Give us the ability to get 150% for much cheaper.

Decrease the necessary XP needed per CP even further up to the PREVIOUS cap. IE. If it's 720 now make it easy to get 690.

Remove CP all-together.

To get from 690 to 720 CP you need 13 million XP.
If you are at 100 CP, that same 13 million XP will get you to 206 CP
If you are at 300 CP, you get to 358
If you are at 500 CP, you get to 539
If you are at 720 CP, you get to 738
If you are at 900 CP, you get to 915

So as you can see, the lower you are on the curve, the more your XP stretches.
And if you are above the cap, then it takes a lot longer to earn more CP.

And this formula is adjusted every time the cap is raised.

@AlnilamE @JasonSilverSpring

Throughout this thread (and others like it), I've seen it said that the XP necessary to reach cap is always the same, regardless of the cap.

But is that really true?

According to UESP, the formula (if you are under cap) is: (((level / (cap^0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000

So from my PC account, which is currently at CP262, I would expect to need 184423.4166 XP to get from CP262-->CP263. From my character sheet, 184,423 XP. So the formula is correct.

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP501: 120603743.7

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP720: 173502526.8

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the formula changes. The formula is the same, and CP are relatively easier to earn as the cap increases because the cap is part of the formula, but the total amount of XP necessary to reach cap does in fact increase.

The math above indicates that it takes about 53 million more XP to get from L50-->CP720 than it did from L50-->CP501.

Additionally, this page (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Champion) at UESP has not been updated since November and references a cap of 690, but the formula is still valid. So I can pretty confidently say that the formula does not change (or at least did not change for this patch).

All this is entirely dependent on that formula being correct - which considering that formula hasn't been updated in over two years, I'd guess that it's not correct.

ZOS has consistently put in their patch notes that the CP EXP curve is adjusted and elongated with every bump, and it is frontloaded to be more expensive at the later CPs and far cheaper at the beginning CPs. They specifically have said this in many different communications (patch notes, ESO Live, forum posts) over the past year and a half, at least.

@Phage

But why "guess that it's not correct" when you can simply plug in your CP and test it yourself? You know, like I did in my prior comment where I demonstrated that the formula was, in fact, correct.

I also checked my CP820 XB1 account and, unsurprisingly, it's still correct (although, per UESP, for accounts over CP cap, multiply the result by 1.5). And it is also correct if I log into PTS and look at a CP720 account.

AlienatedGoat · February 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

There are several solutions to this growing problem. If you don't think it's a problem keep in mind we're getting closer to 1,000 CP.
Offer more double or triple XP weekends. Maybe one a month.

Make high XP potions/scrolls more accessible. Give us the ability to get 150% for much cheaper.

Decrease the necessary XP needed per CP even further up to the PREVIOUS cap. IE. If it's 720 now make it easy to get 690.

Remove CP all-together.

To get from 690 to 720 CP you need 13 million XP.
If you are at 100 CP, that same 13 million XP will get you to 206 CP
If you are at 300 CP, you get to 358
If you are at 500 CP, you get to 539
If you are at 720 CP, you get to 738
If you are at 900 CP, you get to 915

So as you can see, the lower you are on the curve, the more your XP stretches.
And if you are above the cap, then it takes a lot longer to earn more CP.

And this formula is adjusted every time the cap is raised.

@AlnilamE @JasonSilverSpring

Throughout this thread (and others like it), I've seen it said that the XP necessary to reach cap is always the same, regardless of the cap.

But is that really true?

According to UESP, the formula (if you are under cap) is: (((level / (cap^0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000

So from my PC account, which is currently at CP262, I would expect to need 184423.4166 XP to get from CP262-->CP263. From my character sheet, 184,423 XP. So the formula is correct.

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP501: 120603743.7

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP720: 173502526.8

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the formula changes. The formula is the same, and CP are relatively easier to earn as the cap increases because the cap is part of the formula, but the total amount of XP necessary to reach cap does in fact increase.

The math above indicates that it takes about 53 million more XP to get from L50-->CP720 than it did from L50-->CP501.

Additionally, this page (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Champion) at UESP has not been updated since November and references a cap of 690, but the formula is still valid. So I can pretty confidently say that the formula does not change (or at least did not change for this patch).

All this is entirely dependent on that formula being correct - which considering that formula hasn't been updated in over two years, I'd guess that it's not correct.

ZOS has consistently put in their patch notes that the CP EXP curve is adjusted and elongated with every bump, and it is frontloaded to be more expensive at the later CPs and far cheaper at the beginning CPs. They specifically have said this in many different communications (patch notes, ESO Live, forum posts) over the past year and a half, at least.

@Phage

But why "guess that it's not correct" when you can simply plug in your CP and test it yourself? You know, like I did in my prior comment where I demonstrated that the formula was, in fact, correct.

I also checked my CP820 XB1 account and, unsurprisingly, it's still correct (although, per UESP, for accounts over CP cap, multiply the result by 1.5). And it is also correct if I log into PTS and look at a CP720 account.

So you're asserting then that ZOS is lying when they say that earlier CP was made cheaper to balance the EXP curve?

Because since you're saying that a 2+ year old formula "is correct" and matches the CP EXP cost in-game today, ZOS would have to be lying. The CP cost would have had to change according to their own admission.

AlienatedGoat · February 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

There are several solutions to this growing problem. If you don't think it's a problem keep in mind we're getting closer to 1,000 CP.
Offer more double or triple XP weekends. Maybe one a month.

Make high XP potions/scrolls more accessible. Give us the ability to get 150% for much cheaper.

Decrease the necessary XP needed per CP even further up to the PREVIOUS cap. IE. If it's 720 now make it easy to get 690.

Remove CP all-together.

To get from 690 to 720 CP you need 13 million XP.
If you are at 100 CP, that same 13 million XP will get you to 206 CP
If you are at 300 CP, you get to 358
If you are at 500 CP, you get to 539
If you are at 720 CP, you get to 738
If you are at 900 CP, you get to 915

So as you can see, the lower you are on the curve, the more your XP stretches.
And if you are above the cap, then it takes a lot longer to earn more CP.

And this formula is adjusted every time the cap is raised.

@AlnilamE @JasonSilverSpring

Throughout this thread (and others like it), I've seen it said that the XP necessary to reach cap is always the same, regardless of the cap.

But is that really true?

According to UESP, the formula (if you are under cap) is: (((level / (cap^0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000

So from my PC account, which is currently at CP262, I would expect to need 184423.4166 XP to get from CP262-->CP263. From my character sheet, 184,423 XP. So the formula is correct.

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP501: 120603743.7

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP720: 173502526.8

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the formula changes. The formula is the same, and CP are relatively easier to earn as the cap increases because the cap is part of the formula, but the total amount of XP necessary to reach cap does in fact increase.

The math above indicates that it takes about 53 million more XP to get from L50-->CP720 than it did from L50-->CP501.

Additionally, this page (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Champion) at UESP has not been updated since November and references a cap of 690, but the formula is still valid. So I can pretty confidently say that the formula does not change (or at least did not change for this patch).

You are quite correct! Thank you for dispelling the misinformation for the masses.

Did you even bother checking the history of that UESP page before you gave it your stamp of approval? Confirmation bias much?

Why? Is the absolute amount of experience needed to go from 0 to CP 720 still the same as the amount needed to go from 0 to CP 510 a couple years ago (or whenever CP was introduced)?

According to ZOS, yes it is. They've stated many times that earlier CP were made cheaper, but that the EXP curve remains the same. Look at the patch notes from last year alone, you can read it for yourself. I even remember them going over it in an ESO Live from last year, if you want to look that up.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/345258/pc-mac-patch-notes-v3-0-5-morrowind-update-14#latest

AlienatedGoat · February 2018

Every time they state "The Champion Point experience curve has been automatically adjusted with this new cap, so that earlier Champion Points require less experience and can be earned faster."

They make earlier CP significantly cheaper to balance out the EXP curve with the new CP being added. So, from my understanding, that means that the EXP curve doesn't change. The early CP gets made continually cheaper to make up the difference.

Cpt_Teemo · February 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

As the champion point cap is gradually raised the casual players are left feeling like they are in a never-ending grind to catch-up. Why not offer an alternative similar to EVE Online? EVE Online allows you to purchase skillpoints for your character. Why not allow players in ESO to buy "Champion Packs" on the Crown Store similar to mount speed and inventory space?

All gold training gear and 150% experience pots takes 4 days to go from 0 to 690 CP and if you wait for a double experience event with the 150% experience pots..... you can just grind your little heart out and hit max in only 2 days

4 days of how many hours per day? And how many Skyreach runs? Enough to make you want to quit the game out of boredom?

During double xp events people went from 1-690 legit in just a few days but they farmed it 24/7 with xp pots as well lol

leepalmer95 · February 2018

Phage wrote: »

Every time they state "The Champion Point experience curve has been automatically adjusted with this new cap, so that earlier Champion Points require less experience and can be earned faster."

They make earlier CP significantly cheaper to balance out the EXP curve with the new CP being added. So, from my understanding, that means that the EXP curve doesn't change. The early CP gets made continually cheaper to make up the difference.

You're putting way too much effort even replying to this thread.

Thread is basically, 'let me buy levels'. Thread should of been closed first page.

But of course are zos are basically just milking this game for as much money as possible it actually wouldn't surprise me if they went this route. They cater to casuals in every other sense of the game.

I'm confused with the logic in this thread?

You only really need max cp for end game trials, no where else do you need max cp so if you don't have the time to actually play the game and get max cp why do you need it in the first place?

AlienatedGoat · February 2018

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

As the champion point cap is gradually raised the casual players are left feeling like they are in a never-ending grind to catch-up. Why not offer an alternative similar to EVE Online? EVE Online allows you to purchase skillpoints for your character. Why not allow players in ESO to buy "Champion Packs" on the Crown Store similar to mount speed and inventory space?

All gold training gear and 150% experience pots takes 4 days to go from 0 to 690 CP and if you wait for a double experience event with the 150% experience pots..... you can just grind your little heart out and hit max in only 2 days

4 days of how many hours per day? And how many Skyreach runs? Enough to make you want to quit the game out of boredom?

During double xp events people went from 1-690 legit in just a few days but they farmed it 24/7 with xp pots as well lol

A guy in my guild switched from Xbox to PC, went from zero to cap over the course of the last double xp event. Same thing, used lots of xp pots (mixture of 50% and 150% iirc).

LiquidPony · February 2018

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

There are several solutions to this growing problem. If you don't think it's a problem keep in mind we're getting closer to 1,000 CP.
Offer more double or triple XP weekends. Maybe one a month.

Make high XP potions/scrolls more accessible. Give us the ability to get 150% for much cheaper.

Decrease the necessary XP needed per CP even further up to the PREVIOUS cap. IE. If it's 720 now make it easy to get 690.

Remove CP all-together.

To get from 690 to 720 CP you need 13 million XP.
If you are at 100 CP, that same 13 million XP will get you to 206 CP
If you are at 300 CP, you get to 358
If you are at 500 CP, you get to 539
If you are at 720 CP, you get to 738
If you are at 900 CP, you get to 915

So as you can see, the lower you are on the curve, the more your XP stretches.
And if you are above the cap, then it takes a lot longer to earn more CP.

And this formula is adjusted every time the cap is raised.

@AlnilamE @JasonSilverSpring

Throughout this thread (and others like it), I've seen it said that the XP necessary to reach cap is always the same, regardless of the cap.

But is that really true?

According to UESP, the formula (if you are under cap) is: (((level / (cap^0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000

So from my PC account, which is currently at CP262, I would expect to need 184423.4166 XP to get from CP262-->CP263. From my character sheet, 184,423 XP. So the formula is correct.

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP501: 120603743.7

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP720: 173502526.8

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the formula changes. The formula is the same, and CP are relatively easier to earn as the cap increases because the cap is part of the formula, but the total amount of XP necessary to reach cap does in fact increase.

The math above indicates that it takes about 53 million more XP to get from L50-->CP720 than it did from L50-->CP501.

Additionally, this page (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Champion) at UESP has not been updated since November and references a cap of 690, but the formula is still valid. So I can pretty confidently say that the formula does not change (or at least did not change for this patch).

All this is entirely dependent on that formula being correct - which considering that formula hasn't been updated in over two years, I'd guess that it's not correct.

ZOS has consistently put in their patch notes that the CP EXP curve is adjusted and elongated with every bump, and it is frontloaded to be more expensive at the later CPs and far cheaper at the beginning CPs. They specifically have said this in many different communications (patch notes, ESO Live, forum posts) over the past year and a half, at least.

@Phage

But why "guess that it's not correct" when you can simply plug in your CP and test it yourself? You know, like I did in my prior comment where I demonstrated that the formula was, in fact, correct.

I also checked my CP820 XB1 account and, unsurprisingly, it's still correct (although, per UESP, for accounts over CP cap, multiply the result by 1.5). And it is also correct if I log into PTS and look at a CP720 account.

So you're asserting then that ZOS is lying when they say that they frontloaded CP to make earlier CP cheaper and later CP more expensive?

Because since you're saying that a 2+ year old formula "is correct" and matches the CP EXP cost in-game today, ZOS would have to be lying. The CP cost would have had to change.

@Phage

No, that's not what I said at all.

It's like people are so eager to get their next comment in that they can't be bothered to take a moment to read and digest the facts presented.

Earlier CP are easier to earn.

With a cap of 501 CP:

CP100-->CP101: 117184.5799 XP
CP200-->CP201: 198721.9405 XP

With a cap of 720 CP:

CP100-->CP101: 91413.51779 XP
CP200-->CP201: 148827.0356 XP

Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that the total amount of XP needed to reach cap increases as the cap increases.

Note the wording in (every) patch note. "The Champion Point experience curve has been automatically adjusted ..." Note the key word "automatically," and that automation comes from the fact that the formula which determines the XP required to level includes the CP cap as a variable. ZOS isn't changing anything; the result of the formula changes as the variables change. Basic algebra.

I honestly don't even know why you're arguing about this. Before you respond again, why don't you log in to your account, and see if the XP needed to achieve your next level match the result of the formulae on UESP:

(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap

It would take literally 20 seconds and totally obviate the need for this back-and-forth. If your point is that the formula is 2 years old so it must be wrong (Pythagoras is rolling in his grave), then why is it that said formula exactly matches the XP I need to get my next level on 3 separate accounts (XB1, PC, PTS)? Dumb luck?

leepalmer95 · February 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

There are several solutions to this growing problem. If you don't think it's a problem keep in mind we're getting closer to 1,000 CP.
Offer more double or triple XP weekends. Maybe one a month.

Make high XP potions/scrolls more accessible. Give us the ability to get 150% for much cheaper.

Decrease the necessary XP needed per CP even further up to the PREVIOUS cap. IE. If it's 720 now make it easy to get 690.

Remove CP all-together.

To get from 690 to 720 CP you need 13 million XP.
If you are at 100 CP, that same 13 million XP will get you to 206 CP
If you are at 300 CP, you get to 358
If you are at 500 CP, you get to 539
If you are at 720 CP, you get to 738
If you are at 900 CP, you get to 915

So as you can see, the lower you are on the curve, the more your XP stretches.
And if you are above the cap, then it takes a lot longer to earn more CP.

And this formula is adjusted every time the cap is raised.

@AlnilamE @JasonSilverSpring

Throughout this thread (and others like it), I've seen it said that the XP necessary to reach cap is always the same, regardless of the cap.

But is that really true?

According to UESP, the formula (if you are under cap) is: (((level / (cap^0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000

So from my PC account, which is currently at CP262, I would expect to need 184423.4166 XP to get from CP262-->CP263. From my character sheet, 184,423 XP. So the formula is correct.

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP501: 120603743.7

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP720: 173502526.8

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the formula changes. The formula is the same, and CP are relatively easier to earn as the cap increases because the cap is part of the formula, but the total amount of XP necessary to reach cap does in fact increase.

The math above indicates that it takes about 53 million more XP to get from L50-->CP720 than it did from L50-->CP501.

Additionally, this page (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Champion) at UESP has not been updated since November and references a cap of 690, but the formula is still valid. So I can pretty confidently say that the formula does not change (or at least did not change for this patch).

All this is entirely dependent on that formula being correct - which considering that formula hasn't been updated in over two years, I'd guess that it's not correct.

ZOS has consistently put in their patch notes that the CP EXP curve is adjusted and elongated with every bump, and it is frontloaded to be more expensive at the later CPs and far cheaper at the beginning CPs. They specifically have said this in many different communications (patch notes, ESO Live, forum posts) over the past year and a half, at least.

@Phage

But why "guess that it's not correct" when you can simply plug in your CP and test it yourself? You know, like I did in my prior comment where I demonstrated that the formula was, in fact, correct.

I also checked my CP820 XB1 account and, unsurprisingly, it's still correct (although, per UESP, for accounts over CP cap, multiply the result by 1.5). And it is also correct if I log into PTS and look at a CP720 account.

So you're asserting then that ZOS is lying when they say that they frontloaded CP to make earlier CP cheaper and later CP more expensive?

Because since you're saying that a 2+ year old formula "is correct" and matches the CP EXP cost in-game today, ZOS would have to be lying. The CP cost would have had to change.

@Phage

No, that's not what I said at all.

It's like people are so eager to get their next comment in that they can't be bothered to take a moment to read and digest the facts presented.

Earlier CP are easier to earn.

With a cap of 501 CP:

CP100-->CP101: 117184.5799 XP
CP200-->CP201: 198721.9405 XP

With a cap of 720 CP:

CP100-->CP101: 91413.51779 XP
CP200-->CP201: 148827.0356 XP

Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that the total amount of XP needed to reach cap increases as the cap increases.

Note the wording in (every) patch note. "The Champion Point experience curve has been automatically adjusted ..." Note the key word "automatically," and that automation comes from the fact that the formula which determines the XP required to level includes the CP cap as a variable. ZOS isn't changing anything; the result of the formula changes as the variables change. Basic algebra.

I honestly don't even know why you're arguing about this. Before you respond again, why don't you log in to your account, and see if the XP needed to achieve your next level match the result of the formulae on UESP:

(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap

It would take literally 20 seconds and totally obviate the need for this back-and-forth.

This is all well good and all but are people actually complaining about a 30 cp increase every 3 months?

Thats less than 1/3rd of a cp a day, just getting enlightenment gives you 1 a day and at lower cp's its very easy to get a couple or a dozen or so a day.

This thread isn't a 'i can't catch up with cp because of how cp is' thread

it's a 'im very lazy and instead of playing the game and levelling up like a normal mmo i want everything now' thread.

People have literally grinded from lvl 1 to cp 690 in 4 days. Its easily possible to get max in a month with reasonable play time if you wanted too, problem is people are lazy.

AlienatedGoat · February 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

It's like people are so eager to get their next comment in that they can't be bothered to take a moment to read and digest the facts presented.

Even if the total amount of xp is slightly bumped each patch (which I still don't think it does), it is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that max CP gives you a minuscule difference of power over someone at or over the halfway point.

Which is back to the point of this thread: People wanting to buy CP points because of the misguided assumption that max CP makes you god-like.

It doesn't. Plenty of max CP players suck because they grinded their points and never learned to play their characters properly.

Bringing in more clueless max CP players isn't good for anyone.

So to reiterate: No Buying CP Points. Earn through learning.

LiquidPony · February 2018

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

It's like people are so eager to get their next comment in that they can't be bothered to take a moment to read and digest the facts presented.

Even if the total amount of xp is slightly bumped each patch (which I still don't think it does), it is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that max CP gives you a minuscule difference of power over someone at or over the halfway point.

Which is back to the point of this thread: People wanting to buy CP points because of the misguided assumption that max CP makes you god-like.

It doesn't. Plenty of max CP players suck because they grinded their points and never learned to play their characters properly.

Bringing in more clueless max CP players isn't good for anyone.

So to reiterate: No Buying CP Points. Earn through learning.

Yes, as expected, all of your facts are wrong but that ain't going to change your opinion.

Which is really this thread in a nutshell.

AlienatedGoat · February 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

It's like people are so eager to get their next comment in that they can't be bothered to take a moment to read and digest the facts presented.

Even if the total amount of xp is slightly bumped each patch (which I still don't think it does), it is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that max CP gives you a minuscule difference of power over someone at or over the halfway point.

Which is back to the point of this thread: People wanting to buy CP points because of the misguided assumption that max CP makes you god-like.

It doesn't. Plenty of max CP players suck because they grinded their points and never learned to play their characters properly.

Bringing in more clueless max CP players isn't good for anyone.

So to reiterate: No Buying CP Points. Earn through learning.

Yes, as expected, all of your facts are wrong but that ain't going to change your opinion.

Which is really this thread in a nutshell.

The only fact that matters is if buying CP would be detrimental to the health of the game. I believe it would, and I've outlined in previous posts why.

You can dredge up all the extra stuff you want, but it doesn't have any bearing on the actual matter at hand.

LiquidPony · February 2018

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

There are several solutions to this growing problem. If you don't think it's a problem keep in mind we're getting closer to 1,000 CP.
Offer more double or triple XP weekends. Maybe one a month.

Make high XP potions/scrolls more accessible. Give us the ability to get 150% for much cheaper.

Decrease the necessary XP needed per CP even further up to the PREVIOUS cap. IE. If it's 720 now make it easy to get 690.

Remove CP all-together.

To get from 690 to 720 CP you need 13 million XP.
If you are at 100 CP, that same 13 million XP will get you to 206 CP
If you are at 300 CP, you get to 358
If you are at 500 CP, you get to 539
If you are at 720 CP, you get to 738
If you are at 900 CP, you get to 915

So as you can see, the lower you are on the curve, the more your XP stretches.
And if you are above the cap, then it takes a lot longer to earn more CP.

And this formula is adjusted every time the cap is raised.

@AlnilamE @JasonSilverSpring

Throughout this thread (and others like it), I've seen it said that the XP necessary to reach cap is always the same, regardless of the cap.

But is that really true?

According to UESP, the formula (if you are under cap) is: (((level / (cap^0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000

So from my PC account, which is currently at CP262, I would expect to need 184423.4166 XP to get from CP262-->CP263. From my character sheet, 184,423 XP. So the formula is correct.

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP501: 120603743.7

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP720: 173502526.8

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the formula changes. The formula is the same, and CP are relatively easier to earn as the cap increases because the cap is part of the formula, but the total amount of XP necessary to reach cap does in fact increase.

The math above indicates that it takes about 53 million more XP to get from L50-->CP720 than it did from L50-->CP501.

Additionally, this page (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Champion) at UESP has not been updated since November and references a cap of 690, but the formula is still valid. So I can pretty confidently say that the formula does not change (or at least did not change for this patch).

All this is entirely dependent on that formula being correct - which considering that formula hasn't been updated in over two years, I'd guess that it's not correct.

ZOS has consistently put in their patch notes that the CP EXP curve is adjusted and elongated with every bump, and it is frontloaded to be more expensive at the later CPs and far cheaper at the beginning CPs. They specifically have said this in many different communications (patch notes, ESO Live, forum posts) over the past year and a half, at least.

@Phage

But why "guess that it's not correct" when you can simply plug in your CP and test it yourself? You know, like I did in my prior comment where I demonstrated that the formula was, in fact, correct.

I also checked my CP820 XB1 account and, unsurprisingly, it's still correct (although, per UESP, for accounts over CP cap, multiply the result by 1.5). And it is also correct if I log into PTS and look at a CP720 account.

So you're asserting then that ZOS is lying when they say that they frontloaded CP to make earlier CP cheaper and later CP more expensive?

Because since you're saying that a 2+ year old formula "is correct" and matches the CP EXP cost in-game today, ZOS would have to be lying. The CP cost would have had to change.

@Phage

No, that's not what I said at all.

It's like people are so eager to get their next comment in that they can't be bothered to take a moment to read and digest the facts presented.

Earlier CP are easier to earn.

With a cap of 501 CP:

CP100-->CP101: 117184.5799 XP
CP200-->CP201: 198721.9405 XP

With a cap of 720 CP:

CP100-->CP101: 91413.51779 XP
CP200-->CP201: 148827.0356 XP

Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that the total amount of XP needed to reach cap increases as the cap increases.

Note the wording in (every) patch note. "The Champion Point experience curve has been automatically adjusted ..." Note the key word "automatically," and that automation comes from the fact that the formula which determines the XP required to level includes the CP cap as a variable. ZOS isn't changing anything; the result of the formula changes as the variables change. Basic algebra.

I honestly don't even know why you're arguing about this. Before you respond again, why don't you log in to your account, and see if the XP needed to achieve your next level match the result of the formulae on UESP:

(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap

It would take literally 20 seconds and totally obviate the need for this back-and-forth.

This is all well good and all but are people actually complaining about a 30 cp increase every 3 months?

Thats less than 1/3rd of a cp a day, just getting enlightenment gives you 1 a day and at lower cp's its very easy to get a couple or a dozen or so a day.

This thread isn't a 'i can't catch up with cp because of how cp is' thread

it's a 'im very lazy and instead of playing the game and levelling up like a normal mmo i want everything now' thread.

People have literally grinded from lvl 1 to cp 690 in 4 days. Its easily possible to get max in a month with reasonable play time if you wanted too, problem is people are lazy.

Yes, lol, because "I don't have time to play a game for 96 hours straight" is functionally equivalent to laziness.

And I really don't think it's "easily possible" to get to cap in a month with "reasonable play time," unless "reasonable play time" means "4 hours a day running in circles killing zombies." I would guess that 6-9 months is probably a reasonable estimate for those who think "reasonable play time" is something like a few hours per day 4-5 days per week. I'm about a month into my resurrected PC account and have gone from CP40-CP262, and I do: random normal, as many pledges as I can get out of the activity finder, mages/fighters/undaunted guild dailies, crafting writs, and I hit delves/dolmens/world bosses/grind spots while I'm waiting in queue. Takes probably 90-120 minutes, and I do it about 5 days a week.

If, as you say, CP don't matter, don't need 'em, who cares ... then why on earth do you give a damn if people can buy them?

Honestly I think y'all are nuts. 100% every person jumping all over OP is in the same bandwagon: you don't want people to be able to buy CP because you didn't get to.

Can you imagine if those of us who were around back in the VR days took this stance and got our way? We'd all be grinding CP per character rather than account-wide and all of the same people railing against the suggestion here would be crying for a faster way to level.

Empathy, bros.

lishybach · February 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

lishybach wrote: »

I would legit quit this game if this ever happened. I’ve spent a year getting to where I am. CP level 668. If they made it to where new players could just purchase these points....uhhh...wuttt??? Y’all be wildin. It’s like all the work we all done would of been pointless? Wait.....the game would be pointless? (Pun intended). Ugh. Just stahhhppp.

No, you wouldn't quit. No one quits ESO. No one.

Ugh. Dude. You’re so right.

leepalmer95 · February 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

There are several solutions to this growing problem. If you don't think it's a problem keep in mind we're getting closer to 1,000 CP.
Offer more double or triple XP weekends. Maybe one a month.

Make high XP potions/scrolls more accessible. Give us the ability to get 150% for much cheaper.

Decrease the necessary XP needed per CP even further up to the PREVIOUS cap. IE. If it's 720 now make it easy to get 690.

Remove CP all-together.

To get from 690 to 720 CP you need 13 million XP.
If you are at 100 CP, that same 13 million XP will get you to 206 CP
If you are at 300 CP, you get to 358
If you are at 500 CP, you get to 539
If you are at 720 CP, you get to 738
If you are at 900 CP, you get to 915

So as you can see, the lower you are on the curve, the more your XP stretches.
And if you are above the cap, then it takes a lot longer to earn more CP.

And this formula is adjusted every time the cap is raised.

@AlnilamE @JasonSilverSpring

Throughout this thread (and others like it), I've seen it said that the XP necessary to reach cap is always the same, regardless of the cap.

But is that really true?

According to UESP, the formula (if you are under cap) is: (((level / (cap^0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000

So from my PC account, which is currently at CP262, I would expect to need 184423.4166 XP to get from CP262-->CP263. From my character sheet, 184,423 XP. So the formula is correct.

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP501: 120603743.7

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP720: 173502526.8

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the formula changes. The formula is the same, and CP are relatively easier to earn as the cap increases because the cap is part of the formula, but the total amount of XP necessary to reach cap does in fact increase.

The math above indicates that it takes about 53 million more XP to get from L50-->CP720 than it did from L50-->CP501.

Additionally, this page (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Champion) at UESP has not been updated since November and references a cap of 690, but the formula is still valid. So I can pretty confidently say that the formula does not change (or at least did not change for this patch).

All this is entirely dependent on that formula being correct - which considering that formula hasn't been updated in over two years, I'd guess that it's not correct.

ZOS has consistently put in their patch notes that the CP EXP curve is adjusted and elongated with every bump, and it is frontloaded to be more expensive at the later CPs and far cheaper at the beginning CPs. They specifically have said this in many different communications (patch notes, ESO Live, forum posts) over the past year and a half, at least.

@Phage

But why "guess that it's not correct" when you can simply plug in your CP and test it yourself? You know, like I did in my prior comment where I demonstrated that the formula was, in fact, correct.

I also checked my CP820 XB1 account and, unsurprisingly, it's still correct (although, per UESP, for accounts over CP cap, multiply the result by 1.5). And it is also correct if I log into PTS and look at a CP720 account.

So you're asserting then that ZOS is lying when they say that they frontloaded CP to make earlier CP cheaper and later CP more expensive?

Because since you're saying that a 2+ year old formula "is correct" and matches the CP EXP cost in-game today, ZOS would have to be lying. The CP cost would have had to change.

@Phage

No, that's not what I said at all.

It's like people are so eager to get their next comment in that they can't be bothered to take a moment to read and digest the facts presented.

Earlier CP are easier to earn.

With a cap of 501 CP:

CP100-->CP101: 117184.5799 XP
CP200-->CP201: 198721.9405 XP

With a cap of 720 CP:

CP100-->CP101: 91413.51779 XP
CP200-->CP201: 148827.0356 XP

Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that the total amount of XP needed to reach cap increases as the cap increases.

Note the wording in (every) patch note. "The Champion Point experience curve has been automatically adjusted ..." Note the key word "automatically," and that automation comes from the fact that the formula which determines the XP required to level includes the CP cap as a variable. ZOS isn't changing anything; the result of the formula changes as the variables change. Basic algebra.

I honestly don't even know why you're arguing about this. Before you respond again, why don't you log in to your account, and see if the XP needed to achieve your next level match the result of the formulae on UESP:

(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap

It would take literally 20 seconds and totally obviate the need for this back-and-forth.

This is all well good and all but are people actually complaining about a 30 cp increase every 3 months?

Thats less than 1/3rd of a cp a day, just getting enlightenment gives you 1 a day and at lower cp's its very easy to get a couple or a dozen or so a day.

This thread isn't a 'i can't catch up with cp because of how cp is' thread

it's a 'im very lazy and instead of playing the game and levelling up like a normal mmo i want everything now' thread.

People have literally grinded from lvl 1 to cp 690 in 4 days. Its easily possible to get max in a month with reasonable play time if you wanted too, problem is people are lazy.

Yes, lol, because "I don't have time to play a game for 96 hours straight" is functionally equivalent to laziness.

And I really don't think it's "easily possible" to get to cap in a month with "reasonable play time," unless "reasonable play time" means "4 hours a day running in circles killing zombies." I would guess that 6-9 months is probably a reasonable estimate for those who think "reasonable play time" is something like a few hours per day 4-5 days per week. I'm about a month into my resurrected PC account and have gone from CP40-CP262, and I do: random normal, as many pledges as I can get out of the activity finder, mages/fighters/undaunted guild dailies, crafting writs, and I hit delves/dolmens/world bosses/grind spots while I'm waiting in queue. Takes probably 90-120 minutes, and I do it about 5 days a week.

If, as you say, CP don't matter, don't need 'em, who cares ... then why on earth do you give a damn if people can buy them?

Honestly I think y'all are nuts. 100% every person jumping all over OP is in the same bandwagon: you don't want people to be able to buy CP because you didn't get to.

Can you imagine if those of us who were around back in the VR days took this stance and got our way? We'd all be grinding CP per character rather than account-wide and all of the same people railing against the suggestion here would be crying for a faster way to level.

Empathy, bros.

I don't want the game to go the p2w route thats why.

An hour a day grinding would take 14 weeks to max level. If you cared about max cp that much, which you dont really need then you'd do it.

If you want to spend your time playing the game and levelling up normally, continue like you are.

I think suggesting buyable level is nuts. Just play the game and level if you dont have the time to grind otherwise why even have the game in the first place. It's like buying a new game and then using cheats to max everything... whats the point.

When i got to max cp cap it was 400k ap flat per cp, without training, events and xp pots. Its so much easier now but of course everyone wants everything handed to them.

LiquidPony · February 2018

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

There are several solutions to this growing problem. If you don't think it's a problem keep in mind we're getting closer to 1,000 CP.
Offer more double or triple XP weekends. Maybe one a month.

Make high XP potions/scrolls more accessible. Give us the ability to get 150% for much cheaper.

Decrease the necessary XP needed per CP even further up to the PREVIOUS cap. IE. If it's 720 now make it easy to get 690.

Remove CP all-together.

To get from 690 to 720 CP you need 13 million XP.
If you are at 100 CP, that same 13 million XP will get you to 206 CP
If you are at 300 CP, you get to 358
If you are at 500 CP, you get to 539
If you are at 720 CP, you get to 738
If you are at 900 CP, you get to 915

So as you can see, the lower you are on the curve, the more your XP stretches.
And if you are above the cap, then it takes a lot longer to earn more CP.

And this formula is adjusted every time the cap is raised.

@AlnilamE @JasonSilverSpring

Throughout this thread (and others like it), I've seen it said that the XP necessary to reach cap is always the same, regardless of the cap.

But is that really true?

According to UESP, the formula (if you are under cap) is: (((level / (cap^0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000

So from my PC account, which is currently at CP262, I would expect to need 184423.4166 XP to get from CP262-->CP263. From my character sheet, 184,423 XP. So the formula is correct.

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP501: 120603743.7

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP720: 173502526.8

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the formula changes. The formula is the same, and CP are relatively easier to earn as the cap increases because the cap is part of the formula, but the total amount of XP necessary to reach cap does in fact increase.

The math above indicates that it takes about 53 million more XP to get from L50-->CP720 than it did from L50-->CP501.

Additionally, this page (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Champion) at UESP has not been updated since November and references a cap of 690, but the formula is still valid. So I can pretty confidently say that the formula does not change (or at least did not change for this patch).

All this is entirely dependent on that formula being correct - which considering that formula hasn't been updated in over two years, I'd guess that it's not correct.

ZOS has consistently put in their patch notes that the CP EXP curve is adjusted and elongated with every bump, and it is frontloaded to be more expensive at the later CPs and far cheaper at the beginning CPs. They specifically have said this in many different communications (patch notes, ESO Live, forum posts) over the past year and a half, at least.

@Phage

But why "guess that it's not correct" when you can simply plug in your CP and test it yourself? You know, like I did in my prior comment where I demonstrated that the formula was, in fact, correct.

I also checked my CP820 XB1 account and, unsurprisingly, it's still correct (although, per UESP, for accounts over CP cap, multiply the result by 1.5). And it is also correct if I log into PTS and look at a CP720 account.

So you're asserting then that ZOS is lying when they say that they frontloaded CP to make earlier CP cheaper and later CP more expensive?

Because since you're saying that a 2+ year old formula "is correct" and matches the CP EXP cost in-game today, ZOS would have to be lying. The CP cost would have had to change.

@Phage

No, that's not what I said at all.

It's like people are so eager to get their next comment in that they can't be bothered to take a moment to read and digest the facts presented.

Earlier CP are easier to earn.

With a cap of 501 CP:

CP100-->CP101: 117184.5799 XP
CP200-->CP201: 198721.9405 XP

With a cap of 720 CP:

CP100-->CP101: 91413.51779 XP
CP200-->CP201: 148827.0356 XP

Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that the total amount of XP needed to reach cap increases as the cap increases.

Note the wording in (every) patch note. "The Champion Point experience curve has been automatically adjusted ..." Note the key word "automatically," and that automation comes from the fact that the formula which determines the XP required to level includes the CP cap as a variable. ZOS isn't changing anything; the result of the formula changes as the variables change. Basic algebra.

I honestly don't even know why you're arguing about this. Before you respond again, why don't you log in to your account, and see if the XP needed to achieve your next level match the result of the formulae on UESP:

(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap

It would take literally 20 seconds and totally obviate the need for this back-and-forth.

This is all well good and all but are people actually complaining about a 30 cp increase every 3 months?

Thats less than 1/3rd of a cp a day, just getting enlightenment gives you 1 a day and at lower cp's its very easy to get a couple or a dozen or so a day.

This thread isn't a 'i can't catch up with cp because of how cp is' thread

it's a 'im very lazy and instead of playing the game and levelling up like a normal mmo i want everything now' thread.

People have literally grinded from lvl 1 to cp 690 in 4 days. Its easily possible to get max in a month with reasonable play time if you wanted too, problem is people are lazy.

Yes, lol, because "I don't have time to play a game for 96 hours straight" is functionally equivalent to laziness.

And I really don't think it's "easily possible" to get to cap in a month with "reasonable play time," unless "reasonable play time" means "4 hours a day running in circles killing zombies." I would guess that 6-9 months is probably a reasonable estimate for those who think "reasonable play time" is something like a few hours per day 4-5 days per week. I'm about a month into my resurrected PC account and have gone from CP40-CP262, and I do: random normal, as many pledges as I can get out of the activity finder, mages/fighters/undaunted guild dailies, crafting writs, and I hit delves/dolmens/world bosses/grind spots while I'm waiting in queue. Takes probably 90-120 minutes, and I do it about 5 days a week.

If, as you say, CP don't matter, don't need 'em, who cares ... then why on earth do you give a damn if people can buy them?

Honestly I think y'all are nuts. 100% every person jumping all over OP is in the same bandwagon: you don't want people to be able to buy CP because you didn't get to.

Can you imagine if those of us who were around back in the VR days took this stance and got our way? We'd all be grinding CP per character rather than account-wide and all of the same people railing against the suggestion here would be crying for a faster way to level.

Empathy, bros.

I don't want the game to go the p2w route thats why.

An hour a day grinding would take 14 weeks to max level. If you cared about max cp that much, which you dont really need then you'd do it.

If you want to spend your time playing the game and levelling up normally, continue like you are.

I think suggesting buyable level is nuts. Just play the game and level if you dont have the time to grind otherwise why even have the game in the first place. It's like buying a new game and then using cheats to max everything... whats the point.

When i got to max cp cap it was 400k ap flat per cp, without training, events and xp pots. Its so much easier now but of course everyone wants everything handed to them.

But you're not addressing the main point.

You said CP don't matter. You don't need them.

If they don't matter, how is buying CP "P2W?"

Those ideas are mutually exclusive.

"CP don't matter" ... followed by "Buying CP is like buying a new game and using cheats to max everything." It's so unbelievably contradictory.

LanceFoxMcCloud · February 2018

What actually is the main point here? Seems like nothing more than another troll post from a habitual "issues" poster.

Imo this thread should of been closed long ago.

dave011 · February 2018

ok going to feed the troll

CP catch by crowns? NO

CP catch up by grinding? NO learn to play the game! We have far to many then have grinned to cp 160 and have no idea what there toon can do!!

Take us back to before Tam1 where we had to get each toon to VET16! Was a grind yes but we got to know each toon and the game was BETTER OFF FOR IT.

DoctorESO · February 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

There are several solutions to this growing problem. If you don't think it's a problem keep in mind we're getting closer to 1,000 CP.
Offer more double or triple XP weekends. Maybe one a month.

Make high XP potions/scrolls more accessible. Give us the ability to get 150% for much cheaper.

Decrease the necessary XP needed per CP even further up to the PREVIOUS cap. IE. If it's 720 now make it easy to get 690.

Remove CP all-together.

To get from 690 to 720 CP you need 13 million XP.
If you are at 100 CP, that same 13 million XP will get you to 206 CP
If you are at 300 CP, you get to 358
If you are at 500 CP, you get to 539
If you are at 720 CP, you get to 738
If you are at 900 CP, you get to 915

So as you can see, the lower you are on the curve, the more your XP stretches.
And if you are above the cap, then it takes a lot longer to earn more CP.

And this formula is adjusted every time the cap is raised.

@AlnilamE @JasonSilverSpring

Throughout this thread (and others like it), I've seen it said that the XP necessary to reach cap is always the same, regardless of the cap.

But is that really true?

According to UESP, the formula (if you are under cap) is: (((level / (cap^0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000

So from my PC account, which is currently at CP262, I would expect to need 184423.4166 XP to get from CP262-->CP263. From my character sheet, 184,423 XP. So the formula is correct.

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP501: 120603743.7

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP720: 173502526.8

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the formula changes. The formula is the same, and CP are relatively easier to earn as the cap increases because the cap is part of the formula, but the total amount of XP necessary to reach cap does in fact increase.

The math above indicates that it takes about 53 million more XP to get from L50-->CP720 than it did from L50-->CP501.

Additionally, this page (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Champion) at UESP has not been updated since November and references a cap of 690, but the formula is still valid. So I can pretty confidently say that the formula does not change (or at least did not change for this patch).

All this is entirely dependent on that formula being correct - which considering that formula hasn't been updated in over two years, I'd guess that it's not correct.

ZOS has consistently put in their patch notes that the CP EXP curve is adjusted and elongated with every bump, and it is frontloaded to be more expensive at the later CPs and far cheaper at the beginning CPs. They specifically have said this in many different communications (patch notes, ESO Live, forum posts) over the past year and a half, at least.

@Phage

But why "guess that it's not correct" when you can simply plug in your CP and test it yourself? You know, like I did in my prior comment where I demonstrated that the formula was, in fact, correct.

I also checked my CP820 XB1 account and, unsurprisingly, it's still correct (although, per UESP, for accounts over CP cap, multiply the result by 1.5). And it is also correct if I log into PTS and look at a CP720 account.

So you're asserting then that ZOS is lying when they say that they frontloaded CP to make earlier CP cheaper and later CP more expensive?

Because since you're saying that a 2+ year old formula "is correct" and matches the CP EXP cost in-game today, ZOS would have to be lying. The CP cost would have had to change.

@Phage

No, that's not what I said at all.

It's like people are so eager to get their next comment in that they can't be bothered to take a moment to read and digest the facts presented.

Earlier CP are easier to earn.

With a cap of 501 CP:

CP100-->CP101: 117184.5799 XP
CP200-->CP201: 198721.9405 XP

With a cap of 720 CP:

CP100-->CP101: 91413.51779 XP
CP200-->CP201: 148827.0356 XP

Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that the total amount of XP needed to reach cap increases as the cap increases.

Note the wording in (every) patch note. "The Champion Point experience curve has been automatically adjusted ..." Note the key word "automatically," and that automation comes from the fact that the formula which determines the XP required to level includes the CP cap as a variable. ZOS isn't changing anything; the result of the formula changes as the variables change. Basic algebra.

I honestly don't even know why you're arguing about this. Before you respond again, why don't you log in to your account, and see if the XP needed to achieve your next level match the result of the formulae on UESP:

(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap

It would take literally 20 seconds and totally obviate the need for this back-and-forth.

This is all well good and all but are people actually complaining about a 30 cp increase every 3 months?

Thats less than 1/3rd of a cp a day, just getting enlightenment gives you 1 a day and at lower cp's its very easy to get a couple or a dozen or so a day.

This thread isn't a 'i can't catch up with cp because of how cp is' thread

it's a 'im very lazy and instead of playing the game and levelling up like a normal mmo i want everything now' thread.

People have literally grinded from lvl 1 to cp 690 in 4 days. Its easily possible to get max in a month with reasonable play time if you wanted too, problem is people are lazy.

Yes, lol, because "I don't have time to play a game for 96 hours straight" is functionally equivalent to laziness.

And I really don't think it's "easily possible" to get to cap in a month with "reasonable play time," unless "reasonable play time" means "4 hours a day running in circles killing zombies." I would guess that 6-9 months is probably a reasonable estimate for those who think "reasonable play time" is something like a few hours per day 4-5 days per week. I'm about a month into my resurrected PC account and have gone from CP40-CP262, and I do: random normal, as many pledges as I can get out of the activity finder, mages/fighters/undaunted guild dailies, crafting writs, and I hit delves/dolmens/world bosses/grind spots while I'm waiting in queue. Takes probably 90-120 minutes, and I do it about 5 days a week.

If, as you say, CP don't matter, don't need 'em, who cares ... then why on earth do you give a damn if people can buy them?

Honestly I think y'all are nuts. 100% every person jumping all over OP is in the same bandwagon: you don't want people to be able to buy CP because you didn't get to.

Can you imagine if those of us who were around back in the VR days took this stance and got our way? We'd all be grinding CP per character rather than account-wide and all of the same people railing against the suggestion here would be crying for a faster way to level.

Empathy, bros.

I don't want the game to go the p2w route thats why.

An hour a day grinding would take 14 weeks to max level. If you cared about max cp that much, which you dont really need then you'd do it.

If you want to spend your time playing the game and levelling up normally, continue like you are.

I think suggesting buyable level is nuts. Just play the game and level if you dont have the time to grind otherwise why even have the game in the first place. It's like buying a new game and then using cheats to max everything... whats the point.

When i got to max cp cap it was 400k ap flat per cp, without training, events and xp pots. Its so much easier now but of course everyone wants everything handed to them.

But you're not addressing the main point.

You said CP don't matter. You don't need them.

If they don't matter, how is buying CP "P2W?"

Those ideas are mutually exclusive.

"CP don't matter" ... followed by "Buying CP is like buying a new game and using cheats to max everything." It's so unbelievably contradictory.

This is a very insightful question!

AlnilamE · February 2018

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

There are several solutions to this growing problem. If you don't think it's a problem keep in mind we're getting closer to 1,000 CP.
Offer more double or triple XP weekends. Maybe one a month.

Make high XP potions/scrolls more accessible. Give us the ability to get 150% for much cheaper.

Decrease the necessary XP needed per CP even further up to the PREVIOUS cap. IE. If it's 720 now make it easy to get 690.

Remove CP all-together.

To get from 690 to 720 CP you need 13 million XP.
If you are at 100 CP, that same 13 million XP will get you to 206 CP
If you are at 300 CP, you get to 358
If you are at 500 CP, you get to 539
If you are at 720 CP, you get to 738
If you are at 900 CP, you get to 915

So as you can see, the lower you are on the curve, the more your XP stretches.
And if you are above the cap, then it takes a lot longer to earn more CP.

And this formula is adjusted every time the cap is raised.

@AlnilamE @JasonSilverSpring

Throughout this thread (and others like it), I've seen it said that the XP necessary to reach cap is always the same, regardless of the cap.

But is that really true?

According to UESP, the formula (if you are under cap) is: (((level / (cap^0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000

So from my PC account, which is currently at CP262, I would expect to need 184423.4166 XP to get from CP262-->CP263. From my character sheet, 184,423 XP. So the formula is correct.

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP501: 120603743.7

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP720: 173502526.8

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the formula changes. The formula is the same, and CP are relatively easier to earn as the cap increases because the cap is part of the formula, but the total amount of XP necessary to reach cap does in fact increase.

The math above indicates that it takes about 53 million more XP to get from L50-->CP720 than it did from L50-->CP501.

Additionally, this page (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Champion) at UESP has not been updated since November and references a cap of 690, but the formula is still valid. So I can pretty confidently say that the formula does not change (or at least did not change for this patch).

All this is entirely dependent on that formula being correct - which considering that formula hasn't been updated in over two years, I'd guess that it's not correct.

ZOS has consistently put in their patch notes that the CP EXP curve is adjusted and elongated with every bump, and it is frontloaded to be more expensive at the later CPs and far cheaper at the beginning CPs. They specifically have said this in many different communications (patch notes, ESO Live, forum posts) over the past year and a half, at least.

@Phage

But why "guess that it's not correct" when you can simply plug in your CP and test it yourself? You know, like I did in my prior comment where I demonstrated that the formula was, in fact, correct.

I also checked my CP820 XB1 account and, unsurprisingly, it's still correct (although, per UESP, for accounts over CP cap, multiply the result by 1.5). And it is also correct if I log into PTS and look at a CP720 account.

So you're asserting then that ZOS is lying when they say that earlier CP was made cheaper to balance the EXP curve?

Because since you're saying that a 2+ year old formula "is correct" and matches the CP EXP cost in-game today, ZOS would have to be lying. The CP cost would have had to change according to their own admission.

You are misunderstanding what a formula is.

The formula has not changed since it was introduced. So the 2+ year old formula is still "correct".

What has changed is the variable, which is the CP Cap, and that affects the XP curve and makes lower end CP easier to earn.

You can make a copy of this spreadsheet and plug in your own CP cap values and see how the XP requirements change:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r_5rtP9w4e4tbUxzgwq9JjPj84KFM8PB46S_QC-zmVE/edit#gid=0

LiquidPony wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

There are several solutions to this growing problem. If you don't think it's a problem keep in mind we're getting closer to 1,000 CP.
Offer more double or triple XP weekends. Maybe one a month.

Make high XP potions/scrolls more accessible. Give us the ability to get 150% for much cheaper.

Decrease the necessary XP needed per CP even further up to the PREVIOUS cap. IE. If it's 720 now make it easy to get 690.

Remove CP all-together.

To get from 690 to 720 CP you need 13 million XP.
If you are at 100 CP, that same 13 million XP will get you to 206 CP
If you are at 300 CP, you get to 358
If you are at 500 CP, you get to 539
If you are at 720 CP, you get to 738
If you are at 900 CP, you get to 915

So as you can see, the lower you are on the curve, the more your XP stretches.
And if you are above the cap, then it takes a lot longer to earn more CP.

And this formula is adjusted every time the cap is raised.

@AlnilamE @JasonSilverSpring

Throughout this thread (and others like it), I've seen it said that the XP necessary to reach cap is always the same, regardless of the cap.

But is that really true?

According to UESP, the formula (if you are under cap) is: (((level / (cap^0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000

So from my PC account, which is currently at CP262, I would expect to need 184423.4166 XP to get from CP262-->CP263. From my character sheet, 184,423 XP. So the formula is correct.

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP501: 120603743.7

Now plug in and sum up all of the XP needed to go from L50->CP720: 173502526.8

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the formula changes. The formula is the same, and CP are relatively easier to earn as the cap increases because the cap is part of the formula, but the total amount of XP necessary to reach cap does in fact increase.

The math above indicates that it takes about 53 million more XP to get from L50-->CP720 than it did from L50-->CP501.

Additionally, this page (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Champion) at UESP has not been updated since November and references a cap of 690, but the formula is still valid. So I can pretty confidently say that the formula does not change (or at least did not change for this patch).

All this is entirely dependent on that formula being correct - which considering that formula hasn't been updated in over two years, I'd guess that it's not correct.

ZOS has consistently put in their patch notes that the CP EXP curve is adjusted and elongated with every bump, and it is frontloaded to be more expensive at the later CPs and far cheaper at the beginning CPs. They specifically have said this in many different communications (patch notes, ESO Live, forum posts) over the past year and a half, at least.

@Phage

But why "guess that it's not correct" when you can simply plug in your CP and test it yourself? You know, like I did in my prior comment where I demonstrated that the formula was, in fact, correct.

I also checked my CP820 XB1 account and, unsurprisingly, it's still correct (although, per UESP, for accounts over CP cap, multiply the result by 1.5). And it is also correct if I log into PTS and look at a CP720 account.

So you're asserting then that ZOS is lying when they say that they frontloaded CP to make earlier CP cheaper and later CP more expensive?

Because since you're saying that a 2+ year old formula "is correct" and matches the CP EXP cost in-game today, ZOS would have to be lying. The CP cost would have had to change.

@Phage

No, that's not what I said at all.

It's like people are so eager to get their next comment in that they can't be bothered to take a moment to read and digest the facts presented.

Earlier CP are easier to earn.

With a cap of 501 CP:

CP100-->CP101: 117184.5799 XP
CP200-->CP201: 198721.9405 XP

With a cap of 720 CP:

CP100-->CP101: 91413.51779 XP
CP200-->CP201: 148827.0356 XP

Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that the total amount of XP needed to reach cap increases as the cap increases.

Note the wording in (every) patch note. "The Champion Point experience curve has been automatically adjusted ..." Note the key word "automatically," and that automation comes from the fact that the formula which determines the XP required to level includes the CP cap as a variable. ZOS isn't changing anything; the result of the formula changes as the variables change. Basic algebra.

I honestly don't even know why you're arguing about this. Before you respond again, why don't you log in to your account, and see if the XP needed to achieve your next level match the result of the formulae on UESP:

(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap

It would take literally 20 seconds and totally obviate the need for this back-and-forth.

This is all well good and all but are people actually complaining about a 30 cp increase every 3 months?

Thats less than 1/3rd of a cp a day, just getting enlightenment gives you 1 a day and at lower cp's its very easy to get a couple or a dozen or so a day.

This thread isn't a 'i can't catch up with cp because of how cp is' thread

it's a 'im very lazy and instead of playing the game and levelling up like a normal mmo i want everything now' thread.

People have literally grinded from lvl 1 to cp 690 in 4 days. Its easily possible to get max in a month with reasonable play time if you wanted too, problem is people are lazy.

Yes, lol, because "I don't have time to play a game for 96 hours straight" is functionally equivalent to laziness.

And I really don't think it's "easily possible" to get to cap in a month with "reasonable play time," unless "reasonable play time" means "4 hours a day running in circles killing zombies." I would guess that 6-9 months is probably a reasonable estimate for those who think "reasonable play time" is something like a few hours per day 4-5 days per week. I'm about a month into my resurrected PC account and have gone from CP40-CP262, and I do: random normal, as many pledges as I can get out of the activity finder, mages/fighters/undaunted guild dailies, crafting writs, and I hit delves/dolmens/world bosses/grind spots while I'm waiting in queue. Takes probably 90-120 minutes, and I do it about 5 days a week.

If, as you say, CP don't matter, don't need 'em, who cares ... then why on earth do you give a damn if people can buy them?

Honestly I think y'all are nuts. 100% every person jumping all over OP is in the same bandwagon: you don't want people to be able to buy CP because you didn't get to.

Can you imagine if those of us who were around back in the VR days took this stance and got our way? We'd all be grinding CP per character rather than account-wide and all of the same people railing against the suggestion here would be crying for a faster way to level.

Empathy, bros.

I don't want the game to go the p2w route thats why.

An hour a day grinding would take 14 weeks to max level. If you cared about max cp that much, which you dont really need then you'd do it.

If you want to spend your time playing the game and levelling up normally, continue like you are.

I think suggesting buyable level is nuts. Just play the game and level if you dont have the time to grind otherwise why even have the game in the first place. It's like buying a new game and then using cheats to max everything... whats the point.

When i got to max cp cap it was 400k ap flat per cp, without training, events and xp pots. Its so much easier now but of course everyone wants everything handed to them.

But you're not addressing the main point.

You said CP don't matter. You don't need them.

If they don't matter, how is buying CP "P2W?"

Those ideas are mutually exclusive.

"CP don't matter" ... followed by "Buying CP is like buying a new game and using cheats to max everything." It's so unbelievably contradictory.

I think CP matter, but they matter much more early on than they do closer to the cap, especially since they were heavily front-loaded a few updates ago. So once you get to about 300 CP, you are pretty much good to go for anything if you have a good understanding of game mechanics and builds. And if you don't have that understanding, then working to gain it will gain you CP when you aren't looking.

Knowledge · February 2018

The only other reason this is an issue is due to elitism. The game could resolve this problem by "hiding" your CP or only showing a max of CP 160.

There are players in this game that will refuse to run with people below the cap. This can discourage new players heavily and even drive them to quit.

AlienatedGoat · February 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

The only other reason this is an issue is due to elitism. The game could resolve this problem by "hiding" your CP or only showing a max of CP 160.

There are players in this game that will refuse to run with people below the cap. This can discourage new players heavily and even drive them to quit.

That's not a game issue. That's a player issue (and a small minority at that). Hiding CP won't stop elitism.

Everyone I run with has no issue running with people below cap. If we're running vet content though, everyone pulls their weight. If you're not, you're out. Doesn't matter what level you are.

Brings me back to my point about the clueless high CP players. There are a lot of them, and they are a real problem when you're filling out a group through DF or for a trial.

This misguided fixation on CP level as a means of gauging skill is indeed a problem, but it's not a game problem. It's a player perception problem.

KiraTsukasa · February 2018

Yeah, let's make this game pay to win.

Because Battlefront 2 pulled that off quite well.

Zalicius · February 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

As the champion point cap is gradually raised the casual players are left feeling like they are in a never-ending grind to catch-up. Why not offer an alternative similar to EVE Online? EVE Online allows you to purchase skillpoints for your character. Why not allow players in ESO to buy "Champion Packs" on the Crown Store similar to mount speed and inventory space?

I don't think it's needed. Once you max CP on a character all other characters you create on the account will have the same amount of CP. It may take awhile to level an initial character, but getting the rest of them to level 50 really doesn't take that long and you can also purchase more character slots. So, why exactly do you want to purchase CP?

Knowledge · February 2018

Phage wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

The only other reason this is an issue is due to elitism. The game could resolve this problem by "hiding" your CP or only showing a max of CP 160.

There are players in this game that will refuse to run with people below the cap. This can discourage new players heavily and even drive them to quit.

That's not a game issue. That's a player issue (and a small minority at that). Hiding CP won't stop elitism.

Everyone I run with has no issue running with people below cap. If we're running vet content though, everyone pulls their weight. If you're not, you're out. Doesn't matter what level you are.

Brings me back to my point about the clueless high CP players. There are a lot of them, and they are a real problem when you're filling out a group through DF or for a trial.

This misguided fixation on CP level as a means of gauging skill is indeed a problem, but it's not a game problem. It's a player perception problem.

Your argument provides that removing CP visibility would benefit us.

Knowledge · February 2018

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Yeah, let's make this game pay to win.

Because Battlefront 2 pulled that off quite well.

You argue that is pay to win but others argue CP doesn't make a difference and worry only if the players can pull their own weight. If CP has no real value then how is it paying to win?

Unless of course you agree that CP gives people a significant advantage.

Uural · February 2018

No.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · February 2018

why not? 1k crowns/10 CP... no I would not have it other way! VIVA CASUALS! *insert casual shrine prayer*

Uural · February 2018

They already removed veterans, and catching up on cp is eazy enough IMO.
Buyable xp is a mono.