Maintenance for the week of January 5:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)

Why Can’t We Have Our Class Identities Back?

Ch4mpTW
Ch4mpTW
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It’s beginning to become more and more clear that every single class outside of Nightblades has lost a huge piece of what made them special. No, this time a nerf Nightblades thread. So the vast majority of you can calm down. This is a thread asking the devs if the rest of the classes can have their “something special” returned to them.

Now look. I understand the counter argument is, “Champ, what are you talking about? Sorcs still can shield stack, and Templars can still spam heals like no tomorrow.” Yes, but not really. To those making that claim, you are correct. But you are also incorrect. A lot of the things about what made Templars special, are gone; or given to another class. A lot of what made Sorcs special were removed. A lot of what made DKs special was removed. And it’s like... Only Nightblades appear to still have that unique “thing” about them, that the devs absolutely refused to touch. Why? Because the vast majority of the player base mains then, understandably enough. And to go on and remove something that the majority of your consumers likes is like shooting yourself in the foot. Yes. I get it. But, why can’t everyone else still be unique and not so watered down?

Like... I look back at when VR14 was cap, and before Imperial City went live. That to me was when I can say there was true balance and class identity. No 2 classes felt or even played remotely similar. People can call those days chaotic and a mess all they want, but each and every class felt special and had their own unique gimmicks that made them stand out from the each other. And it’s like patch after patch, a big chunk from every class bar Nightblades gets ripped away. And I don’t understand why.

DK’s back then were known for incredible sustain, and even known for being the true front-line brawlers. The folks who got up in the mix, be it magicka or stamina. And could truly hold their ground when going toe-to-toe with people. Magicka or stamina. And while generating stamina while blocking was indeed a bit much, it still gave the class the identity of “the tank”. The class that is hard and grounded like stone.

Sorcerers back then were high-speed mages, that cast wards and put out high damage. But if caught with their shields down, and or pressured enough crumbled. They were the “masters of the arcane”, and were capable of high-speed combat and incredibly high burst damage. Yes being able to Bolt Escape without penalty, and having long durations on their shields were annoying within PvP environments. But, they still swiftly dealt with if tackled by people with strategy.

Templars. The people who would literally spear you to death, and or beam you from a block away. They were not to be screwed with or F’d with without extremely caution. They were the clerics that could kill, and demanded respect wherever you encountered them. Yes, them being able to heal for days was a bit crazy. And being able to beam you from miles away was definitely frustrating. But still. It too could have been managed without too much hassle, if proper care was taken when engaging in combat with them.

And Nightblades. The stealthy assassins who’d insta-gib you from seemingly out of nowhere. The class that made you become paranoid about straying too far from your group, if in PvP. And made you become weary of being solo in Cyrodiil. No pun intended, but they truly put fear into players from their swift and sneaky tactics. Yes the old version of cloak was incredibly annoying, as well as the other tools at their disposal. But, Nightblades back then had the cost of being incredibly fragile. Making the class extremely difficult to master be it magicka or stamina, and ultimately have to pick very wisely about which skills they were going to use.

Do you understand what I’m trying to get at it? Only Nightblades for the most part truly retained their sense of self identity. Where as patch after patch, every single class is losing what it is that makes them special. Their losing their shine. And I’m not asking for nerfs to any class, nor buffs to anyone. But can you all at ZOS PLEASE return the unique characteristics that you took away from every class? Please? It’s not even a matter about adjusting at this point, as things are becoming to the point where every class plays exactly the same as 1 another. And that’s bad. I mean, even in PvE it got so bad that a few patches ago Burning Spellweave was best-in-slot for every magicka-based class across the board. What in the hell, ZOS? Come on now. That’s not right. And while diversity is slowly returning, it seems like the damage is already done. And things are beginning to fall apart and break.

People can say how unbalanced and screwed up ESO was prior to the Imperial City update, but at least every single class was truly different in every single way. And they all had something which made them extremely annoying and or borderline overpowered. And that was what made each 1 of them special, and made those times in the past so memorable. Because through the imbalance and diversity, there was identity. And from those extreme differences of identity came balance. And from balance came happiness.
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    other mmos have class related quests and id like zos to do similar stuff. Like wow has class quests that unlock unique rewards from your class after showing mastery with your class with difficult quests
    Edited by Aliyavana on February 27, 2018 7:49PM
  • Ch4mpTW
    Ch4mpTW
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    aliyavana wrote: »
    other mmos have class related quests and id like zos to do similar stuff

    That would be nice. Or perhaps certain challenges to complete, that are only offered to each class individually. Something similar to Diablo’s class challenges. They would provide a sense of progression, and offer something very valuable for each clas that completes a different tier of class mastery. This would provide players with an incentive to truly learn their classes inside and out. While also perhaps dropping a special piece of gear that can only be equipped by that class. And even then, by a class that has reached that level of mastery.
  • Riddari
    Riddari
    ✭✭✭
    I'm all for class identity as long as it's more complex than "dps, healer, or tank"

    I really really REALLY like the idea of trying to get closer to mage, thief, and warrior identities.

    I feel like the game could use more recognition of these identities. Dungeons could have ways of incorporating these identify into their design.

    Also if each class had a unique way of healing, tanking, and doing dps would be awesome. Probably askin for too much tho lol
  • Sixty5
    Sixty5
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I agree. I play my Stam Sorc and think to myself, "man, you know what would be awesome? If I could go even faster"

    But now with Prisoners Rags and such, anyone can get minor expedition, and with all of the snares that are in the game, it feels like my fast has died.
    Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.

    I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
    Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    The only identities are healer, tank, damage.

    There are no templars, nightblades, sorcerers, dragonknights, or wardens.
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    I agree. I play my Stam Sorc and think to myself, "man, you know what would be awesome? If I could go even faster"

    But now with Prisoners Rags and such, anyone can get minor expedition, and with all of the snares that are in the game, it feels like my fast has died.

    Stamsorc 15% speed passive on bound armaments?
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Nemesis7884
    Nemesis7884
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    aliyavana wrote: »
    other mmos have class related quests and id like zos to do similar stuff

    one one hand that is cool on the other hand the thing is there are 5 classes you want to have 5 more quests for everybody or 1 more quest just for one class...
  • MaxwellC
    MaxwellC
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Yup sucks when your skills are taken and given to other classes *Cough* Sorc stealing my damn flames of oblivion *Cough* and spell wall being the original DK wings,etc.

    The main problem with this is that ZOS continues to balance their game (IMO doing so very Lazily) around CP and armor rather than the class and the skills they have.

    They continue to create simplistic armor that gives you [Input generic buff here] or something that damages you through impact/hit or summoned object. There's nothing like increase the damage DK abilities do by 15% or once per minute reduce the cost of all DK abilities by 40%,etc. It's always the same old thing and it's because they're leveraging CP rather than the class.
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • rustic_potato
    rustic_potato
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ZOS is working towards something completely opposite. Trying to homogenize the classes. They want each class to have a tank oriented skill line, dd skill line and healing skill line. I would like that more than having the ridiculous unkillable Sorcs and DKs and templars instagibbing everyone from max range.

    From a PVE perspective balance has never been better. Stam and magika are viable endgame.

    From a PVP perspective balance is a work in progression. Everything needs to die when facing a swarm of players and ZOS has been slowly making sure that is the case.
    I play how I want to.


  • _Salty_
    _Salty_
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well apparently you have never played a Sap Tank because Zos has systematically gutted it with every update. I've played since console launch night and my main was a Sap Tank and it barely resembles it's former glory. all the changes to siphoning attacks patch after patch make the 1 defining trait of the entire build obsolete.

    No other class can say it's no longer relevant, magplars and madks are suboptimal in end game raid groups, but Sap Tanks are laughed at in their current state.
    Psn l---Salty---l

    Patiently waiting to make a Stankcromancer.
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    Yup sucks when your skills are taken and given to other classes *Cough* Sorc stealing my damn flames of oblivion *Cough* and spell wall being the original DK wings,etc.

    The main problem with this is that ZOS continues to balance their game (IMO doing so very Lazily) around CP and armor rather than the class and the skills they have.

    They continue to create simplistic armor that gives you [Input generic buff here] or something that damages you through impact/hit or summoned object. There's nothing like increase the damage DK abilities do by 15% or once per minute reduce the cost of all DK abilities by 40%,etc. It's always the same old thing and it's because they're leveraging CP rather than the class.

    Foo, fossilize, wings (spell wall or the different, but better shimmering) and now people want chains... Can DK keep nothing unique.
    Edited by ak_pvp on February 27, 2018 6:16AM
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • A_G_G_R_O
    A_G_G_R_O
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah I’d just like repentance to go to my teammates
  • Tasear
    Tasear
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorcs were special alright... remember when pets were joke. Remember when it was minor maim and not concussion. Remember when healing with twlight would kill it? No thanks it's been good here.
    Edited by Tasear on February 27, 2018 6:43AM
  • Draxys
    Draxys
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Tasear wrote: »
    Sorcs were special alright... remember when pets were joke. Remember when it was minor maim and not concussion. Remember when healing with twlight would kill it? No thanks it's been good here.

    The fact that some things are fixed or changed does not mean the game is better. Both the old and current versions of the game have had broken and unbalanced things. The old versions were far more enjoyable, even with all the messed up stuff.
    2013

    rip decibel
  • Lynx7386
    Lynx7386
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Don't confuse "class identity" with "ability monopoly". You're wanting each class to do something the others can't, that's a monopoly. Class identity means something unique that sets a class' playstyle and feel apart from others.

    The class identities are still intact:
    Dragon knight: wings, claws, talonz, fire breath
    Sorceror: summoned daedra, raw magic (overload)
    Templar: auras, healing, glowing spears
    Night blade: stealth/invisibility, life draining
    Warden: nature magic, animal pets, ice magic

    PS4 / NA
    M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
    Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
    Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
    Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
    Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank
  • Sixty5
    Sixty5
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    I agree. I play my Stam Sorc and think to myself, "man, you know what would be awesome? If I could go even faster"

    But now with Prisoners Rags and such, anyone can get minor expedition, and with all of the snares that are in the game, it feels like my fast has died.

    Stamsorc 15% speed passive on bound armaments?

    Put Minor Expedition on it and give hurricane immunity to snares.

    DK can have Minor Protection on Ash Cloud to compensate.
    Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.

    I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
    Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds
  • radiostar
    radiostar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Z did miles and miles of nerfs to DK and Temps. It's never coming back. :neutral:
    "Billions upon Billions of Stars"
  • Draxys
    Draxys
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Lynx7386 wrote: »
    Don't confuse "class identity" with "ability monopoly". You're wanting each class to do something the others can't, that's a monopoly. Class identity means something unique that sets a class' playstyle and feel apart from others.

    The class identities are still intact:
    Dragon knight: wings, claws, talonz, fire breath
    Sorceror: summoned daedra, raw magic (overload)
    Templar: auras, healing, glowing spears
    Night blade: stealth/invisibility, life draining
    Warden: nature magic, animal pets, ice magic

    Hopefully this doesn’t sound too snarky because I don’t intend it to- but aren’t you confusing identity with just having a certain skill? DKs used to be the “up in your face, tank your damage and outlast you” brawler class. IMO, that was the identity, not having an aoe lockdown or being able to reflect things. Now, any class can be a brawler.
    2013

    rip decibel
  • Ch4mpTW
    Ch4mpTW
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lynx7386 wrote: »
    Don't confuse "class identity" with "ability monopoly". You're wanting each class to do something the others can't, that's a monopoly. Class identity means something unique that sets a class' playstyle and feel apart from others.

    The class identities are still intact:
    Dragon knight: wings, claws, talonz, fire breath
    Sorceror: summoned daedra, raw magic (overload)
    Templar: auras, healing, glowing spears
    Night blade: stealth/invisibility, life draining
    Warden: nature magic, animal pets, ice magic

    How so? In the very first example you have given (Dragonknight’s wings), it shows how much neutered the class has become. A skill as class defining and unique as Reflective Scales has been ridiculously crippled. We’re talking about something that was once very useful, and was used by both magicka and stamina variants of Dragonknights regardless of the build. A skill that was fantastic, and used to not be this buggy and weak crap that it is today. But, look at it now. And for what? What logical reason was there to do what ZOS did to Reflective Scales? There is none. You went from being able to reflect Mereors, and doing other types of glorious things. To now having a skill which barely works at times, and is often looked over as it is usually a waste of magicka.

    Come on now. If that doesn’t show identity removal, I don’t know what else does. We’re talking about something that was literally a key component to DK defensive play, just up and turned into the buggy trash that it is now. And that’s exactly what it is too. From both a PvE and PvP perspective.

    Tell me something, comrade. How do you think the tons of Nightblades would feel, if their precious Cloak was given the Reflective Scales treatment? Or perhaps given the Bolt Escape treatment, in which there would be a penalty attached to each cloak. Or maybe just flat out give their skill to another class, but let them keep an incredibly watered down version of it. Like how ZOS ripped away the old Templar’s Breath of Life, and essentially gave it to Sorcerers. Meanwhile, leaving the original class from which it came a version of it that is a husk. There would be an immense uproar, would there not? People would lose their damn minds, and there would be more backlash than anything these forums have ever seen. Would there not?

    But again, ZOS wouldn’t ever dare do anything even close to that. And we all know this. And we all know why too. @ZOS_Wrobel may love to hurl his darts at a dartboard indeed, but notice he’s never too heavy handed against the Nightblade class. Ole’ Wrobel is real cautious about screwing with their identity, and that’s wrong. And even worse, is the people who parrot: “Don’t like it? Then quit.” As this just further shows ZOS that that type of behavior is acceptable. When it’s not. Even though 50% of your player base loves to live-up their rogue assassin dreams, the others 50% consists of folks who play a mixture of other classes. And we deserve to have the same type of respect given to our classes as given to Nightblades.
  • Ch4mpTW
    Ch4mpTW
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    radiostar wrote: »
    Z did miles and miles of nerfs to DK and Temps. It's never coming back. :neutral:

    Remember that bs that was said about how Templars were supposed to have a house or something along those lines? Lol. I forget which dev made that comment. But, I’m really curious wtf type of home it is that Templars have now. Is it even a home anymore? Or is it a car or motel? Because for damn sure, Templars aren’t even remotely close to having their old identity. ZOS beat the bricks off of Templars, to the point where they even keep screwing up their scaling and other skills patch after patch.

    If ZOS were Blizzard, and ESO was Overwatch, ZOS gave Templars the “Mercy Treatment”. And anybody who knows anything about Mercy in Overwatch, knows that recently Blizzard completely disrespected and violated the hell out of Mercy. She’s still a decent healer, but her identity? What it was that made her special and so iconic? Beyond destroyed. They obliterated that character. If it were .hack, they Data Drained Mercy. And ZOS is doing the same crap to Templars.
  • radiostar
    radiostar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, that was Eric ofc. This is my house and bad things will happen if you open the door or something. What a joke!
    "Billions upon Billions of Stars"
  • Knootewoot
    Knootewoot
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    I think the problem is because of stamina/magicka morphs.

    Most of the class stuff was magick. Stamina characters had enough weaponskils which are stamina (there isnt a magicka morph in any weapon skill line besides staffs)

    But stamina back then sucked PvE wise. PvP i managed good.

    Then someone decided to make class skills stamina/magicka morph. Sorcs, which in my eyes are magical wielders and so are templar skills (except their weapon skills). But now everyone and their mother is a stamina user because they dish out way more damage. Sorcs/templars, everybody uses the same build. Bow and 2-handed and crit rush away.

    Why is this? Because weapon and spell damage also take max magicka/stamina in count. Remove that, and remove the morphs of class skills being stamina/magicka morph. If it's magic, it should take magicka.

    Well this is my narrow minded idea. Yeah, i am all for hybrid builds and play how you want. But casting a magical sap essence skill or morph should take magicka and not stamina. Stamina should be for weapon physiscal skills.

    So removing the stamina/magicka morph idea, and removing max damage from also max resource you open up more for hybrid builds, but where magical attacks cost magicka and physical cost stamina.
    Edited by Knootewoot on February 27, 2018 8:02AM
    ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
    "I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."
  • Ch4mpTW
    Ch4mpTW
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Knootewoot wrote: »
    I think the problem is because of stamina/magicka morphs.

    Most of the class stuff was magick. Stamina characters had enough weaponskils which are stamina (there isnt a magicka morph in any weapon skill line besides staffs)

    But stamina back then sucked PvE wise. PvP i managed good.

    Then someone decided to make class skills stamina/magicka morph. Sorcs, which in my eyes are magical wielders and so are templar skills (except their weapon skills). But now everyone and their mother is a stamina user because they dish out way more damage. Sorcs/templars, everybody uses the same build. Bow and 2-handed and crit rush away.

    Why is this? Because weapon and spell damage also take max magicka/stamina in count. Remove that, and remove the morphs of class skills being stamina/magicka morph. If it's magic, it should take magicka.

    Well this is my narrow minded idea. Yeah, i am all for hybrid builds and play how you want. But casting a magical sap essence skill or morph should take magicka and not stamina. Stamina should be for weapon physiscal skills.

    So removing the stamina/magicka morph idea, and removing max damage from also max resource you open up more for hybrid builds, but where magical attacks cost magicka and physical cost stamina.

    @Knootewoot I agree with you 100%. I will never forget when I heard of: Hurricane, Noxious Breath, and Venomous Claw being introduced. I couldn’t believe what I had read. More so about Sorcs getting stamina morphs, as a Sorcerer to me always screamed magicka. I mean, who doesn’t immediately think of Magic whenever they hear the title of “Sorcerer”? Dr. Strange is/was “Sorcerer Supreme”, and I’m pretty sure no one ever imagined a mage running around with melee weapons.

    And that’s no diss to the StamSorc mains out there, like @FENGRUSH for example. He is and forever will be THE StamSorc of ESO, in my opinion. His ability as a StamSorc is unrivaled. But like, the whole concept of a stamina Sorcerer to me sounds insane and ridiculous. I’m fully aware that “Battlemage” are a thing in RPG’s (and are heavily integrated in Elder Scrolls lore). But, that is a Battlemage. Not a Sorcerer. A Battlemage runs into combat with usually a sword in 1 hand, and a spell in the other. Or perhaps with 2 magically-infused swords. Not a greatsword and bow. Lol. And still classify themselves as a Sorcerer. N’ah. That’s wrong.
    Edited by Ch4mpTW on February 27, 2018 8:21AM
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    I agree. I play my Stam Sorc and think to myself, "man, you know what would be awesome? If I could go even faster"

    But now with Prisoners Rags and such, anyone can get minor expedition, and with all of the snares that are in the game, it feels like my fast has died.

    Stamsorc 15% speed passive on bound armaments?

    Put Minor Expedition on it and give hurricane immunity to snares.

    DK can have Minor Protection on Ash Cloud to compensate.

    Honestly I doubt that it would change too much. SS has the option of FM or shuffle, ( I would just increase shuffle to something like 6s immunity.) whereas DK has nothing. Protection on ash cloud won't make it any less useless or be worth any space on a bar, wings could replace mist though for instance.

    For stamsorc they need more class based stuff in general. Rune having a stam morph. And continuing with the speed theme incorporating the old weighted trait into the skills. I.e. Faster skills, Faster channels, heavy attacks, dark deals etc.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Turelus
    Turelus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lynx7386 wrote: »
    Don't confuse "class identity" with "ability monopoly". You're wanting each class to do something the others can't, that's a monopoly. Class identity means something unique that sets a class' playstyle and feel apart from others.

    The class identities are still intact:
    Dragon knight: wings, claws, talonz, fire breath
    Sorceror: summoned daedra, raw magic (overload)
    Templar: auras, healing, glowing spears
    Night blade: stealth/invisibility, life draining
    Warden: nature magic, animal pets, ice magic
    I am going to agree with this, whilst yes a lot of sets and rotations are very close we still see each class take a different approach to its role.
    I personally think the issues fall on set balance and non-class skill power rather than classes all just being the same.

    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Sixty5
    Sixty5
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    I agree. I play my Stam Sorc and think to myself, "man, you know what would be awesome? If I could go even faster"

    But now with Prisoners Rags and such, anyone can get minor expedition, and with all of the snares that are in the game, it feels like my fast has died.

    Stamsorc 15% speed passive on bound armaments?

    Put Minor Expedition on it and give hurricane immunity to snares.

    DK can have Minor Protection on Ash Cloud to compensate.

    Honestly I doubt that it would change too much. SS has the option of FM or shuffle, ( I would just increase shuffle to something like 6s immunity.) whereas DK has nothing. Protection on ash cloud won't make it any less useless or be worth any space on a bar, wings could replace mist though for instance.

    For stamsorc they need more class based stuff in general. Rune having a stam morph. And continuing with the speed theme incorporating the old weighted trait into the skills. I.e. Faster skills, Faster channels, heavy attacks, dark deals etc.

    As far as Rune goes, I don't really see how a stationary ability fits in with the theme of a fast mobile warrior. On the second point I do like what you are saying. In Path of exile for instance there is something called Tailwind which applies a 10% speed buff to all actions. Could fit in with hurricane pretty well.

    Turning Crystal Blast into a class based Wrecking blow would also be kinda nice

    I was thinking Protection on Ash cloud to give DK a tool to better stand their ground, though given that is more a niche spot, it could be a nice addition to Wings. Have something like "If a projectile is reflected, gain Minor Protection for X seconds" and maybe change the other morph to something that removed snares.
    Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.

    I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
    Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds
  • Ch4mpTW
    Ch4mpTW
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    _Salty_ wrote: »
    Well apparently you have never played a Sap Tank because Zos has systematically gutted it with every update. I've played since console launch night and my main was a Sap Tank and it barely resembles it's former glory. all the changes to siphoning attacks patch after patch make the 1 defining trait of the entire build obsolete.

    No other class can say it's no longer relevant, magplars and madks are suboptimal in end game raid groups, but Sap Tanks are laughed at in their current state.

    @_Salty_ Is that right? Have you ever heard of “Blazing Shield Templar Tanks”? I don’t mean these new guys running out with Blazing Shield, and getting smacked up immediately. N’ah. I mean the REAL Blazing Shield Templars. The Templars who made you scared to damage them, out of fear you’d melt yourself. Even if you were in a group with players. Those Templars. The Templars from many patches ago. Lol. Blazing Shield builds are a relic now, and those who incorporate them are ultimate batteries now. Punching bags basically.

    But here. I’ll do you 1 better. Have you ever heard of vampire build MagDK’s? No, I don’t mean the MagDK’s who just use Mist Form and maybe bats here and there. No. I mean actual builds that focused on their vampire skill line. The dynamic ultimate regen days. Those vampire MagDK’s. If you haven’t heard of them, you should look-up a few videos on that era in ESO’s timeline. Lol. Good times. I’ll put it to you like this. Vampire builds back then were NOT to be taken lightly even remotely close, as you’d end-up destroyed before you can even blink. There was a phrase even coined from it which was classified as “BatBombs”. And that phrase alone struck fear into groups all over Cyrodiil.

    Nowadays? Vampire builds are definitely non-existent. Lol. Yes, people may again go vampire for Mist Form or whatever. But, their builds aren’t focused on the Vampire skill line as a whole. It’s more like only using a skill from it, and that’s it. Where as before, it was an entire play style.
  • Kalante
    Kalante
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This are the changes that will help pvp.
    Add a stronger roll dodge penalty, remove the 1ms immunity from attacks after a roll dodge, nerf
    Major invasion or remove it and give vigor a buff. Give cloak a penalty just like streak. Nerf burst healing from magicka templars and make shields critible.

    It is time for people to stop relying on crutches.

    Also nerf heavy armor and defile or buff medium armor. Nobody other than gankers use medium armor because there is no point for it in pvp. That 12% damage passive from medium armor still stuck on the stone ages since pre thieves guild and it doesn't do anything in todays heavy meta. Light armor players get 5k penetration and they have a fair amount of survival because of instant uncritible shields. Medium armor is just trash open world combat and die so easily, anything that touches you hits like a truck.
    Edited by Kalante on February 27, 2018 8:50AM
  • RavenSworn
    RavenSworn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This thread seems like a nerf nightblade thread. And I'm disappointed with that. Here's my two cents though.

    Class identity was lost because players wanted it. It wasn't because ZoS wanted to change it to three distinct skill lines within the class or what not, it was just simply players wanted what the other classes had for their class.

    Players wanted to have for the nb, the sorcs and the Templar what the dk had for tanking. They wanted what the Templar had for healing. There wasn't any room for diversity because everyone had to follow a certain playstyle for the group, hence 'meta'.

    Do you know what's the defining ability for nb in pve? It wasn't cloak, cloak was buggy as hell from the start of the game four years ago till now. It was siphoning strikes. That was our ace. As a tank, that differentiate us from dk as it gave us a unique take on tanking.

    What ZoS should have done though, was to make sure there are differences in the way each class is tanking. The approach, the way the abilities synergies with each other.

    But they went warden, and that really broke class differentiation. It's basically a class that had all the tools of the other classes. You have a class that has reflect / absorb, chains, inbuilt evasion, self heals both magicka and stamina... Yeah it wasn't a master of one role, and it's dps is still left wanting but that class is just a reflection of what the player population wanted; a class that can do it all.

    In the end, it's our own choices made.
    Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.


    Of Wolf and Raven
    Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!
  • Silver_Strider
    Silver_Strider
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    I was never a fan of skill monopoly.

    Templars being the only class that could restore Stamina to others, DKs being the best tank because it had all the tools to do so, etc. were always issues in my eyes and ZOS has done a marvelous job in fixing that issue for the most part.

    Class identity needs to be something else entirely than having X skill that Y class doesn't. It needs to be that each class can do whatever role it wants in its own way. If each class was given the tools to perform their selective role that was entirely unique to them alone, then they'd be actual class identity instead of this hogwash people claim was their identity.

    You want my thoughts; Make each class viable in their own way for each specific role. I.E. Have NBs being able to tank via dodge chance and blinds. Change Fear into a Charm effect that draws enemies towards it with the morphs being the current fear we have and an added blind effect to increase the likelihood of missing. Alter the way that Blind works in PvP so that it only affects 1 target or something to prevent too much abuse (not like it matters much with all the undodgeable attacks but whatever). Same thing can be done with the other Classes. Grant Sorcs a tether ability to split the damage they take with their pets. Make Templars the Health Tank by altering more skills to work based off Health (I'm looking at you Solar Barrage, you useless PoS).

    These are just ideas off the top of my head at 4AM in the morning so forgive me if these ideas are foolhardy but I'm so sick of these "Class Identity" threads when ESO classes are more shallow than a puddle and always have been.
    Edited by Silver_Strider on February 27, 2018 7:21PM
    Argonian forever
Sign In or Register to comment.