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Give Cloak stacking cost
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Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...2 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭no.
nothing needs to be nerfed with cloak.
if you want to change it then allow it to be a toggle on and off and make it so i cant be pulled out of cloak and out of stealth
there is nothing overpowered with cloak.
cloak is underpowered.
please leave cloak alone
0 -
ArpamiesFin✭✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »ArpamiesFin wrote: »nerf is needed. i can pretty much perma cloak with my stamblades 11k magicka and 600 regen
I have nearly identical stats and have to dispute this. I am no-where close to being able to perma-cloak.
i know right, 3 cloaks in a row is a must nerf op-ness3 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Outnumbered too heavily and doesnt expect to die and still thinks cloak doesnt need a fix.7 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nightblades won’t get nerfed. The forum outrage would be tremendous.
@Ragnarock41
The discussion is a waste. The “there are so many counters” card is another NB exclusive and lets these discussions vanish almost as quickly as they do themselves.
Instead of isolating cloak as the problem the more interesting discussion is the whole NB toolkit, starting with the passives, over to their cheap strong ultimates, and ending with Shade+Cloak.
It’s coherent class design. Really well done. It’s just that every class should be done like that and not only 2/5.Edited by Feanor on February 26, 2018 5:06PMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭ArpamiesFin wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »ArpamiesFin wrote: »nerf is needed. i can pretty much perma cloak with my stamblades 11k magicka and 600 regen
I have nearly identical stats and have to dispute this. I am no-where close to being able to perma-cloak.
i know right, 3 cloaks in a row is a must nerf op-ness
It stacks too well with shuffle and dodge. You can literally mitigate all damage from multiple targets plus almost immediately go back on the offensive all while wearing a glass cannon build1 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
It's not about escaping from zergs, it's about the overall package that Cloak gives you. Magsorcs can escape from zergs too, is Streak overpowered now? No, it's not, because you see them running away and you see them coming. A sorc can run away one time and that's it. A nightblade can stop the fight whenever it wants to do so and have also insane passive pressure on the opponent because you could also get heavy attacked -> incapped out of Cloak. There would nothing be wrong with Cloak if you would have a damage debuff while being cloaked or if nb wouldn't have so much frontloaded burst.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.1 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Outnumbered too heavily and doesnt expect to die and still thinks cloak doesnt need a fix.
So zerging should always result in safe and guaranteed kills?
Edit @Ragnaroek93
Offensive use of cloak and ganking doesn't require you to spam the ability, so a stacking cost increase won't change much in this regard. It would only nerf cloak as an escape tool. Since i'm not ganking, i wouldn't care about a dmg debuff while in cloak, but then it should include all kinds of stealth (sneak, invis pots).Edited by Rianai on February 26, 2018 5:20PM1 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ArpamiesFin wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »ArpamiesFin wrote: »nerf is needed. i can pretty much perma cloak with my stamblades 11k magicka and 600 regen
I have nearly identical stats and have to dispute this. I am no-where close to being able to perma-cloak.
i know right, 3 cloaks in a row is a must nerf op-ness
It stacks too well with shuffle and dodge. You can literally mitigate all damage from multiple targets plus almost immediately go back on the offensive all while wearing a glass cannon build
That's simply not true either. You can't dodge and cloak much on a glass cannon build. Believe it or not, but every non ganker actually invests a good amount into survivability by getting the regen that is needed to play rollerblade. You need much more regen than on a tank build so it's just fair that you don't need to get as much health and resistances as tank builds.Nightblades won’t get nerfed. The forum outrage would be tremendous.
@Ragnarock41
The discussion is a waste. The “there are so many counters” card is another NB exclusive and lets these discussions vanish almost as quickly as they do themselves.
Instead of isolating cloak as the problem the more interesting discussion is the whole NB toolkit, starting with the passives, over to their cheap strong ultimates, and ending with Shade+Cloak.
It’s coherent class design. Really well done. It’s just that every class should be done like that and not only 2/5.
And the comments from both of you make the topic better? I don't think any of you two actually played the class enough to make a fair statement about nbs nor do I remember any of you complaining about balance when magsorc and stamdk were completely overpowered (don't tell me that heavy armor stamdks with vit pots or skeleton pirate sorcs with 3 shields were fine, that was far more unbalanced than nbs currently are - and yes, I've played all three classes for longer than one week).I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.3 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Can I get this feature on my DK and Templar plsInvictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT4 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Outnumbered too heavily and doesnt expect to die and still thinks cloak doesnt need a fix.
So zerging should always result in safe and guaranteed kills?
Edit @Ragnaroek93
Offensive use of cloak and ganking doesn't require you to spam the ability, so a stacking cost increase won't change much in this regard. It would only nerf cloak as an escape tool. Since i'm not ganking, i wouldn't care about a dmg debuff while in cloak, but then it should include all kinds of stealth (sneak, invis pots).
From my experience Shadow Image is the better tool to escape from zergs. A stacking cost on Cloak wouldn't mean that you can't use that skill several times in a row it would just prevent that a nightblade can't disengage and engage all the time: You would actually have to decide between escaping or engaging a second time.Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Can I get this feature on my DK and Templar pls
Sure, if my stamblades gets the 1v1 strength of a Dk and the group utility from a Templar :PEdited by Ragnaroek93 on February 26, 2018 5:30PMI used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.3 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Outnumbered too heavily and doesnt expect to die and still thinks cloak doesnt need a fix.
So zerging should always result in safe and guaranteed kills?
Edit @Ragnaroek93
Offensive use of cloak and ganking doesn't require you to spam the ability, so a stacking cost increase won't change much in this regard. It would only nerf cloak as an escape tool. Since i'm not ganking, i wouldn't care about a dmg debuff while in cloak, but then it should include all kinds of stealth (sneak, invis pots).
From my experience Shadow Image is the better tool to escape from zergs. A stacking cost on Cloak wouldn't mean that you can't use that skill several times in a row it would just prevent that a nightblade can't disengage and engage all the time: You would actually have to decide between escaping or engaging a second time.Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Can I get this feature on my DK and Templar pls
Sure, if my stamblades gets the 1v1 strength of a Dk and the group utility from a Templar :P
Do you actually think Stamblades are weak 1v1? If you have a char on PC NA you can log on and fight my heavy armor bleed stamblade with a DK or Templar. Good luck.Edited by Kilandros on February 26, 2018 5:34PMInvictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT1 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Outnumbered too heavily and doesnt expect to die and still thinks cloak doesnt need a fix.
So zerging should always result in safe and guaranteed kills?
Edit @Ragnaroek93
Offensive use of cloak and ganking doesn't require you to spam the ability, so a stacking cost increase won't change much in this regard. It would only nerf cloak as an escape tool. Since i'm not ganking, i wouldn't care about a dmg debuff while in cloak, but then it should include all kinds of stealth (sneak, invis pots).
From my experience Shadow Image is the better tool to escape from zergs. A stacking cost on Cloak wouldn't mean that you can't use that skill several times in a row it would just prevent that a nightblade can't disengage and engage all the time: You would actually have to decide between escaping or engaging a second time.Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Can I get this feature on my DK and Templar pls
Sure, if my stamblades gets the 1v1 strength of a Dk and the group utility from a Templar :P
Do you actually think Stamblades are weak 1v1?
Depends on the build. If you build them to be strong in 1v1 you won't be able to escape from zergs as well.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Outnumbered too heavily and doesnt expect to die and still thinks cloak doesnt need a fix.
So zerging should always result in safe and guaranteed kills?
Edit @Ragnaroek93
Offensive use of cloak and ganking doesn't require you to spam the ability, so a stacking cost increase won't change much in this regard. It would only nerf cloak as an escape tool. Since i'm not ganking, i wouldn't care about a dmg debuff while in cloak, but then it should include all kinds of stealth (sneak, invis pots).
From my experience Shadow Image is the better tool to escape from zergs. A stacking cost on Cloak wouldn't mean that you can't use that skill several times in a row it would just prevent that a nightblade can't disengage and engage all the time: You would actually have to decide between escaping or engaging a second time.Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Can I get this feature on my DK and Templar pls
Sure, if my stamblades gets the 1v1 strength of a Dk and the group utility from a Templar :P
Do you actually think Stamblades are weak 1v1?
Depends on the build. If you build them to be strong in 1v1 you won't be able to escape from zergs as well.
I'm very confused. You just said Stamblades lack the 1v1 strength of a DK. Now you're saying Stamblades can be strong 1v1? Which is it?
Also, but just FYI, last time I checked DKs who are built for 1v1 can't escape from zergs "well" either.Edited by Kilandros on February 26, 2018 5:36PMInvictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT4 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Outnumbered too heavily and doesnt expect to die and still thinks cloak doesnt need a fix.
So zerging should always result in safe and guaranteed kills?
Edit @Ragnaroek93
Offensive use of cloak and ganking doesn't require you to spam the ability, so a stacking cost increase won't change much in this regard. It would only nerf cloak as an escape tool. Since i'm not ganking, i wouldn't care about a dmg debuff while in cloak, but then it should include all kinds of stealth (sneak, invis pots).
From my experience Shadow Image is the better tool to escape from zergs. A stacking cost on Cloak wouldn't mean that you can't use that skill several times in a row it would just prevent that a nightblade can't disengage and engage all the time: You would actually have to decide between escaping or engaging a second time.Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Can I get this feature on my DK and Templar pls
Sure, if my stamblades gets the 1v1 strength of a Dk and the group utility from a Templar :P
Do you actually think Stamblades are weak 1v1?
A rollerblade build is actually weak quite 1v1 against a host of different classes/builds. It's a hit and run artist. I've not duelled too much on stamblade personally to be considered anything more than an observer, but generally the build that shines in 1v1 is a heavy armor buildEU | PC | AD1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Ragnarock41
No, I didn’t add to it, because you can already see this is going into nowhere. You say yourself that outside of a stacking cost to cloak you have no other idea that’s not completely wrecking the class.
Seemingly 95% of posters in this thread think that cloak is fine and NB needs no nerfs.
I do think that instead of cloak the whole toolkit needs a look at. I’d suggest looking at the burst and the passives instead of hitting the escape tool. But that’s just me.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Outnumbered too heavily and doesnt expect to die and still thinks cloak doesnt need a fix.
So zerging should always result in safe and guaranteed kills?
Edit @Ragnaroek93
Offensive use of cloak and ganking doesn't require you to spam the ability, so a stacking cost increase won't change much in this regard. It would only nerf cloak as an escape tool. Since i'm not ganking, i wouldn't care about a dmg debuff while in cloak, but then it should include all kinds of stealth (sneak, invis pots).
From my experience Shadow Image is the better tool to escape from zergs. A stacking cost on Cloak wouldn't mean that you can't use that skill several times in a row it would just prevent that a nightblade can't disengage and engage all the time: You would actually have to decide between escaping or engaging a second time.Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Can I get this feature on my DK and Templar pls
Sure, if my stamblades gets the 1v1 strength of a Dk and the group utility from a Templar :P
Do you actually think Stamblades are weak 1v1?
A rollerblade build is actually weak quite 1v1 against a host of different classes/builds. It's a hit and run artist. I've not duelled too much on stamblade personally to be considered anything more than an observer, but generally the build that shines in 1v1 is a heavy armor build
Who's talking about rollerblade builds? Who's even still playing those? No wonder people mistakenly think Stamblade is weak they're still running around in Eternal Hunt like it's early 2017.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Outnumbered too heavily and doesnt expect to die and still thinks cloak doesnt need a fix.
So zerging should always result in safe and guaranteed kills?
Edit @Ragnaroek93
Offensive use of cloak and ganking doesn't require you to spam the ability, so a stacking cost increase won't change much in this regard. It would only nerf cloak as an escape tool. Since i'm not ganking, i wouldn't care about a dmg debuff while in cloak, but then it should include all kinds of stealth (sneak, invis pots).
From my experience Shadow Image is the better tool to escape from zergs. A stacking cost on Cloak wouldn't mean that you can't use that skill several times in a row it would just prevent that a nightblade can't disengage and engage all the time: You would actually have to decide between escaping or engaging a second time.Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Can I get this feature on my DK and Templar pls
Sure, if my stamblades gets the 1v1 strength of a Dk and the group utility from a Templar :P
Do you actually think Stamblades are weak 1v1?
A rollerblade build is actually weak quite 1v1 against a host of different classes/builds. It's a hit and run artist. I've not duelled too much on stamblade personally to be considered anything more than an observer, but generally the build that shines in 1v1 is a heavy armor build
Who's talking about rollerblade builds? Who's even still playing those? No wonder people mistakenly think Stamblade is weak they're still running around in Eternal Hunt like it's early 2017.
Oi, I'm doing absolutely fine in my Eternal Hunt in BGs tyvm. Plenty of people play them. It's a highly efficient build in certain context. Insane front damage and mobility/escape. Especially now with Shadow Image fixed.EU | PC | AD0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Outnumbered too heavily and doesnt expect to die and still thinks cloak doesnt need a fix.
So zerging should always result in safe and guaranteed kills?
Edit @Ragnaroek93
Offensive use of cloak and ganking doesn't require you to spam the ability, so a stacking cost increase won't change much in this regard. It would only nerf cloak as an escape tool. Since i'm not ganking, i wouldn't care about a dmg debuff while in cloak, but then it should include all kinds of stealth (sneak, invis pots).
From my experience Shadow Image is the better tool to escape from zergs. A stacking cost on Cloak wouldn't mean that you can't use that skill several times in a row it would just prevent that a nightblade can't disengage and engage all the time: You would actually have to decide between escaping or engaging a second time.Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Can I get this feature on my DK and Templar pls
Sure, if my stamblades gets the 1v1 strength of a Dk and the group utility from a Templar :P
Do you actually think Stamblades are weak 1v1?
Depends on the build. If you build them to be strong in 1v1 you won't be able to escape from zergs as well.
I'm very confused. You just said Stamblades lack the 1v1 strength of a DK. Now you're saying Stamblades can be strong 1v1? Which is it?
Also, but just FYI, last time I checked DKs who are built for 1v1 can't escape from zergs "well" either.
Heavy armor bleedblade is a duel build, it doesn't work against more against one opponent. I don't rate it as weak but it's not top tier as well, I'm pretty sure that you would lose against a decent Duroks mag build or against a petsorc.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.1 -
ArpamiesFin✭✭✭ArpamiesFin wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »ArpamiesFin wrote: »nerf is needed. i can pretty much perma cloak with my stamblades 11k magicka and 600 regen
I have nearly identical stats and have to dispute this. I am no-where close to being able to perma-cloak.
i know right, 3 cloaks in a row is a must nerf op-ness
It stacks too well with shuffle and dodge. You can literally mitigate all damage from multiple targets plus almost immediately go back on the offensive all while wearing a glass cannon build
ou i bet my mitigation is still no where near of those glorious fighters in perma-blocking heavy armor "i dont want to die ever" builds0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Outnumbered too heavily and doesnt expect to die and still thinks cloak doesnt need a fix.
So zerging should always result in safe and guaranteed kills?
Edit @Ragnaroek93
Offensive use of cloak and ganking doesn't require you to spam the ability, so a stacking cost increase won't change much in this regard. It would only nerf cloak as an escape tool. Since i'm not ganking, i wouldn't care about a dmg debuff while in cloak, but then it should include all kinds of stealth (sneak, invis pots).
From my experience Shadow Image is the better tool to escape from zergs. A stacking cost on Cloak wouldn't mean that you can't use that skill several times in a row it would just prevent that a nightblade can't disengage and engage all the time: You would actually have to decide between escaping or engaging a second time.Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Can I get this feature on my DK and Templar pls
Sure, if my stamblades gets the 1v1 strength of a Dk and the group utility from a Templar :P
Do you actually think Stamblades are weak 1v1?
A rollerblade build is actually weak quite 1v1 against a host of different classes/builds. It's a hit and run artist. I've not duelled too much on stamblade personally to be considered anything more than an observer, but generally the build that shines in 1v1 is a heavy armor build
Who's talking about rollerblade builds? Who's even still playing those? No wonder people mistakenly think Stamblade is weak they're still running around in Eternal Hunt like it's early 2017.
Who plays heavy armor bleedblade outside of duels? WutFaceI used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.3 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Outnumbered too heavily and doesnt expect to die and still thinks cloak doesnt need a fix.
So zerging should always result in safe and guaranteed kills?
Edit @Ragnaroek93
Offensive use of cloak and ganking doesn't require you to spam the ability, so a stacking cost increase won't change much in this regard. It would only nerf cloak as an escape tool. Since i'm not ganking, i wouldn't care about a dmg debuff while in cloak, but then it should include all kinds of stealth (sneak, invis pots).
From my experience Shadow Image is the better tool to escape from zergs. A stacking cost on Cloak wouldn't mean that you can't use that skill several times in a row it would just prevent that a nightblade can't disengage and engage all the time: You would actually have to decide between escaping or engaging a second time.Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Can I get this feature on my DK and Templar pls
Sure, if my stamblades gets the 1v1 strength of a Dk and the group utility from a Templar :P
Do you actually think Stamblades are weak 1v1?
Depends on the build. If you build them to be strong in 1v1 you won't be able to escape from zergs as well.
I'm very confused. You just said Stamblades lack the 1v1 strength of a DK. Now you're saying Stamblades can be strong 1v1? Which is it?
Also, but just FYI, last time I checked DKs who are built for 1v1 can't escape from zergs "well" either.
Heavy armor bleedblade is a duel build, it doesn't work against more against one opponent. I don't rate it as weak but it's not top tier as well, I'm pretty sure that you would lose against a decent Duroks mag build or against a petsorc.
God forbid classes should have to build to be good at different things. But at this point it's fair to say that you've backed off from your initial claim that stamblades lack 1v1 efficacy, yes?Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Outnumbered too heavily and doesnt expect to die and still thinks cloak doesnt need a fix.
So zerging should always result in safe and guaranteed kills?
Edit @Ragnaroek93
Offensive use of cloak and ganking doesn't require you to spam the ability, so a stacking cost increase won't change much in this regard. It would only nerf cloak as an escape tool. Since i'm not ganking, i wouldn't care about a dmg debuff while in cloak, but then it should include all kinds of stealth (sneak, invis pots).
From my experience Shadow Image is the better tool to escape from zergs. A stacking cost on Cloak wouldn't mean that you can't use that skill several times in a row it would just prevent that a nightblade can't disengage and engage all the time: You would actually have to decide between escaping or engaging a second time.Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Can I get this feature on my DK and Templar pls
Sure, if my stamblades gets the 1v1 strength of a Dk and the group utility from a Templar :P
Do you actually think Stamblades are weak 1v1?
Depends on the build. If you build them to be strong in 1v1 you won't be able to escape from zergs as well.
I'm very confused. You just said Stamblades lack the 1v1 strength of a DK. Now you're saying Stamblades can be strong 1v1? Which is it?
Also, but just FYI, last time I checked DKs who are built for 1v1 can't escape from zergs "well" either.
Heavy armor bleedblade is a duel build, it doesn't work against more against one opponent. I don't rate it as weak but it's not top tier as well, I'm pretty sure that you would lose against a decent Duroks mag build or against a petsorc.
God forbid classes should have to build to be good at different things. But at this point it's fair to say that you've backed off from your initial claim that stamblades lack 1v1 efficacy, yes?
They are strong in 1v1 if you build them around 1v1 (which makes them a one trick pony which is useless in every other scenario) but still and as strong as magicka builds who build for duels.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Outnumbered too heavily and doesnt expect to die and still thinks cloak doesnt need a fix.
So zerging should always result in safe and guaranteed kills?
Edit @Ragnaroek93
Offensive use of cloak and ganking doesn't require you to spam the ability, so a stacking cost increase won't change much in this regard. It would only nerf cloak as an escape tool. Since i'm not ganking, i wouldn't care about a dmg debuff while in cloak, but then it should include all kinds of stealth (sneak, invis pots).
From my experience Shadow Image is the better tool to escape from zergs. A stacking cost on Cloak wouldn't mean that you can't use that skill several times in a row it would just prevent that a nightblade can't disengage and engage all the time: You would actually have to decide between escaping or engaging a second time.Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
Can I get this feature on my DK and Templar pls
Sure, if my stamblades gets the 1v1 strength of a Dk and the group utility from a Templar :P
Do you actually think Stamblades are weak 1v1?
A rollerblade build is actually weak quite 1v1 against a host of different classes/builds. It's a hit and run artist. I've not duelled too much on stamblade personally to be considered anything more than an observer, but generally the build that shines in 1v1 is a heavy armor build
Who's talking about rollerblade builds? Who's even still playing those? No wonder people mistakenly think Stamblade is weak they're still running around in Eternal Hunt like it's early 2017.
Who plays heavy armor bleedblade outside of duels? WutFace
Do you have legit reading comprehension issues? He literally said "rollerblade is actually quite weak 1v1" and I went on to ask who builds a rollerblade to find 1v1s.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT1 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
From my experience Shadow Image is the better tool to escape from zergs. A stacking cost on Cloak wouldn't mean that you can't use that skill several times in a row it would just prevent that a nightblade can't disengage and engage all the time: You would actually have to decide between escaping or engaging a second time.
Shadow Image alone doesn't let me escape as magblade, because it is more of a kiting tool than something to cover distance and i'm simply not fast enough to run away when getting chased. And i will get chased the moment i'm visible. Cloak alone also doesn't allow me to escape most of the time, because it gets broken by so many things that are very hard to avoid when snared and sometimes i'm already forced to spam it in oder to get it off just once, which is already quite costly.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is thread gets more entertaining by the post with someone trying to justify their stance on needing NBA.2 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
From my experience Shadow Image is the better tool to escape from zergs. A stacking cost on Cloak wouldn't mean that you can't use that skill several times in a row it would just prevent that a nightblade can't disengage and engage all the time: You would actually have to decide between escaping or engaging a second time.
Shadow Image alone doesn't let me escape as magblade, because it is more of a kiting tool than something to cover distance and i'm simply not fast enough to run away when getting chased. And i will get chased the moment i'm visible. Cloak alone also doesn't allow me to escape most of the time, because it gets broken by so many things that are very hard to avoid when snared and sometimes i'm already forced to spam it in oder to get it off just once, which is already quite costly.
I mostly play magblade (other then magsorc) and mobility in double take/cripple+cloak+concealed is basically supreme as far as magicka builds go. I can put so much distance so quickly that unless I'm marked or detect potted, I'm really quite hard to catch by simple AoE spam. Add a functioning Shadow Image into that....
Problem is without 2H and FM snare removal, you can get a bit stuck. That's why I'd probably trade cost stacking for snare removal on my magblade, so that I can happily slot destro again. There's really no good argument for being able to cloak for 2+ mins. A shuffle-cloak would only need 1-2 intelligent uses to get you away, while also creating windows for some counterplay. It's not a skill that should be spammable tbh, much like Streak in a way.EU | PC | AD1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Even if stamblades can perma cloak too, why is being able to run away so op? It is not like perma cloak does anything else ...
Seriously, if i couldn't - sometimes - escape from zergs i'd stop playing the game. No point in running solo or in a small group if you are guaranteed to die as soon you are outnumbered too heavily ...
This is where you are wildly mistaken. A good stamblade doesnt use a cloak to run. At most, they use it to reset a fight, more commonly, they use it to line up burst. It allows them to go extremely glassy, burst people from stealth, and either get a kill or hit the reset button with really no penalty. Meanwhile, the person you are fighting is typically running around and expending resources to try and catch you.
Perma cloak on a stamblade is certainly over powered, especially if cloak really is fixed. I dont know if stack cost is the answer (certainly might be), but my guess is they will need to do something about it.
2 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Every day I come here and think "finally, we've reached that level where nobody can possibly post something more stupid than anything posted before", then someone like the op says "here, hold my beer and watch this"
Yeah, giving Cloak a stacking cost is for sure the dumbest idea in the whole forum... Looking forward to see you complaining in 3 months when Nbs get nerfed. And don't be surprised if they nerf the wrong things. Magsorcs also defended shieldstacking and skelly pirate over months and what happened? Everything from magsorc was nerfed instead of nerfing the right things. Stamdks also defended Redguard, vitality potions and heavy armor... look up what happened to stamdks. Not saying that Cloak is on the same level as heavy armor + vit pots were or skelly pirate sorc with 3 shields was but it's not balanced either.DemonDruaga wrote: »Just lol. Like 1 out of 10 fights i can cloak around, the rest i will just stay detected due the various cloak counters there are.
On my stam dk i usualy don't loose to a stam blade because of their cloaking, i can break that imidiatly, the defile and insane bleed builds are what tears me apart, not their 0.5 seconds invisibility before i detect em again.
But opinions differ i'd say
It is ok to die against opponents. It is not ok if your opponent can easily survive forever. We don't need nerfs which increase the time to kill even further.Ragnaroek93 wrote: »It actually happened: Cloak got fixed and doesn't break for no reason anymore and therefore the ability is completely overpowered now. I would suggest giving it the Streak treatment and in exchange maybe tune down the hardcounters for Cloak or give some Siphoning skills stam morphs if stamblade turns out to be too weak with a Cloak nerf (magblade already seems to be playable without Cloak from what I've seen).
Before other nightblades *** or hatemail me now keep in mind that I'm playing a nightblade by myself (stamnb since beta) and that one third of the Cyro population are currently nightblades and accept that the class will most likely get a nerf. "L2P", "git gud" and "Cloak is easy to counter" (which it is not unless you run mark target) doesn't help, do some useful suggestions and hope that ZOS will not nerf the wrong things instead (or stay out of this thread please).
Greetings
Give vigor stacking cost AKA Streak Treatment too.
Rofl. Giving a heal over time stacking cost doesn't make sense at all but whatever. Mentally prepared myself anyways before creating this thread.
Have you ever tried a NB? That's the best way to learn how to counter it. If not, please, avoid coming here giving ideas about somethig you don't really understand.
Cloak is very, very hard to master and most of the players at Cyro know how to counter it. You have 2 options. the easy and mediocre one, which is ask for nerfs, or the hard one which is l2p. And that l2p implies you create a cloak using NBSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1
