Give Cloak stacking cost

Dojohoda

Humm, Yes cloak can be broken, so this entire thread based on nothing.

NyassaV

Dojohoda wrote: »

Humm, Yes cloak can be broken, so this entire thread based on nothing.

^ on point AF

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos

I think not only the people posting here but also ZOS should take this OP serious.

He is without a doubt one of the most competent players, and especially on stamblade. Been a top dueler since ages.

NyassaV

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

I think not only the people posting here but also ZOS should take this OP serious.

He is without a doubt one of the most competent players, and especially on stamblade. Been a top dueler since ages.

It doesn't matter. Cloak still gets broken. The first sentence in the post is false. I've been having cloak broken by endless fury this patch. In fact there is no mention of cloak in the patch notes if I am not mistaken. Being an excellent duelist doesn't make up for the fact that the original statement is just not correct. No disrespect to anyone but that's it.

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos

Hollery wrote: »

It doesn't matter. Cloak still gets broken. The first sentence in the post is false. I've been having cloak broken by endless fury this patch. In fact there is no mention of cloak in the patch notes if I am not mistaken. Being an excellent duelist doesn't make up for the fact that the original statement is just not correct. No disrespect to anyone but that's it.

Hmm alright so you mean ZOS should try to fix cloak and then do something about it being overpowered?

Why not just doing something about it being overpowered while "fixing it" ?

Either way, even if it isnt fixed, why can't we have a serious discussion about it in hopes of something being done? If it does get fixed it will be overperforming.

What is hard to understand about this?

GrumpyDuckling

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

I think not only the people posting here but also ZOS should take this OP serious.

He is without a doubt one of the most competent players, and especially on stamblade. Been a top dueler since ages.

I would take the OP seriously if the OP provided any good reasoning to support their claim that cloak is "completely overpowered."

How long or how well the player plays is a bad argument for why we should take this thread seriously.

QuebraRegra

GTFO! just GTFO! and L2p while yer at it.

troll post?

Jaxaxo

Tbh i would love to see this change implemented, just to see all those cries on forum and reduction of nbs population in Cyrodill

Ender1310

Cloaking play still requires more strategy then that old shield stacking streak meta. I still don't understand how it's and issue with sooo many hard counters. Hard counters. But fine.

Ender1310

Maulkin wrote: »

From my MagBlade's POV, I'd be highly reluctant to see Cloak nerfed the way Streak was but.... if it was offered with a buff, like snare removal, it would be very palatable.

+1 on @Datthaw for his idea.

As it is at the moment, it has too many counters that Streak doesn't have. Detect Pots, Mark, Snares, ground AoE damage (Clartrops, Blockade etc.). None of these stop my Sorc from performing 2-3 Streaks and getting to LOS cover, while they stop Cloak on its tracks. So if Cloak gets a cost stack, it should offer a tangible benefit that can't get so easily negated, like the movement of Streak. And snare removal would do exactly that.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

You can't compare Cloak with Streak. Streak is more like an escape skill while Cloak is an escape skill, defensive skill and offensive skill all at once (which is horrible balance design itself).

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Putting a stacking cost on Streak was one of the worst balancing decisions ZOS ever made in the game, I’d rather not see that repeated with Cloak, or any other skill for that matter.

Disagree with both of these statements and I main Sorc and have been for years. I use Streak offensively as much as defensively, every decent Sorc who uses Streak (instead of BoL) does. It does decent damage, procs implosion, stuns enemies before an ult hits, pulls players out of Stealth/Invis.

The cost increase was also kinda warranted, cause otherwise the mobility was practically infinite. Especially at the time when we had CPs with skill cost reduction. It wasn't balanced at the time. There were different ways it could be nerfed, like I had suggested at the time that dealing damage or stunning an opponent should reset the cost increase so it can be used offensively by Sorcs without penalties while Streaking into the sunset would still be nerfed. At the moment, in a NB vs Sorc fight the Sorc can only afford to pull the NB out of cloak 2-3 times with Streak before the cost becomes completely prohibitive, while my MagBlade can cloak 7-8 times without problems and avoid 100% of the fights he doesn't want to participate in.

TL;DR; A nerf alone would be too harsh. A buff-nerf combo that helps you out in this snare heavy meta and reduces your reliance on 2h and FM, would be a more acceptable solution.

How are you reliably resetting all these fights? What is the secret counter to detect potion flair and mage light/ aoe? So your Mag blade just cloaks and runs away? That simple? Cause it has never seemed that simple for me.

Ender1310

OP. Explain your build that allows you to perma cloak as a stamblade and allows you to blow people up please? And are you on PC or console?

Lynx7386

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

I think not only the people posting here but also ZOS should take this OP serious.

He is without a doubt one of the most competent players, and especially on stamblade. Been a top dueler since ages.

Since when has dueling ever been a consideration for balance changes? None of the actual content in this game is 1v1

Lord-Otto

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

I think not only the people posting here but also ZOS should take this OP serious.

He is without a doubt one of the most competent players, and especially on stamblade. Been a top dueler since ages.

Since when has dueling ever been a consideration for balance changes? None of the actual content in this game is 1v1

Uuuh, yes??? This game's PvP is balanced ONLY for 1v1.
You get no helping tools like dynamic ult gen to deal with 1v2 or higher. Cyrodiil is won by numbers or anti-number specialization, not by how good you are with your class. Only in 1v1 with open world builds do you see a shimmer of combat balance.
When you talk of an experienced duelist, that person probably knows a lot about his main class, and also other classes. So that's valuable feedback.
What you're implying is that NBs oneshotting you from stealth would be totally fine, because destro trains would take keeps and were therefore balanced. It's an excuse to neglect class balancing.

Ragnarock41

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

I think not only the people posting here but also ZOS should take this OP serious.

He is without a doubt one of the most competent players, and especially on stamblade. Been a top dueler since ages.

Since when has dueling ever been a consideration for balance changes? None of the actual content in this game is 1v1

I think you should stop talking about thing you don't understand.

Maryal

Bashev wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Magelight.
Expert hunter.
Mark target.
Revealing flare.
Detect potions.
Any aoe ability.

Those are all hard counters to cloak.

A stamina nightblade can cloak 3-4 times before using up all magicka. He might get one more in if he uses a magicka potion. Its actually smarter to use an invisibility potion at that point for 15-20 seconds of invis, which is probably what a lot of players are doing and it gets misconstrued as cloak, but any class can use those.

Streak has no reliable counters, even gap closers just took a hefty nerf with Dragon bones. Sorcs still complaining like always though.

In addition to the above, there are also (at least) 2 armor sets that also counter sneak:

Sentry
(5 items) Increases the radius you can detect Sneaking enemies by 50%. Increases your damage done to Sneaking enemies by 20%.
Way of Air
(4 items) Increases stealth detection radius by 2 meters.

I can't think of any other skill in this game that that been given so many counters to it as cloak.

In a way, ZOS wanted cloak to be a spamable skill. This was back when they nerfed cloak by removing it's purge effect.

It used to be that NBs need only cloak 1x to access a purge effect (cloak used to remove 1 negative effect, much like the Warden's Betty Netch). Unfortunately, back then, many people complained about the NB's having a 'free' purge compared to the resource cost many others had to 'pay' to use the alliance support skill 'purge.'

Well, ZOS fixed that issue! They a.) removed the 'free purge' from NB's cloak, and b.) replaced it with a sort-of 'purge-like-effect' ... but there was a catch! In order to make full use of this 'purge-like-effect', NBs had to spam cloak several times in a row. Problem solved! By putting NBs in the position of having to spam cloak, ZOS indirectly increased the NBs cost to access this 'purge-like-effect' which, in turn, helped to level out the playing field when it came to the 'purge cost' issue.

While I think cloak is fine the way it is, IF it were changed to dampen it's 'spamability', then 2 things would need to happen:
a.) Return the purge back to cloak; and
b.) increase the duration of cloak to 6 seconds.

I hope that you make difference between sneak/stealth and invisibility/vanish in ESO.
These sets do not work vs cloak.

Yes, there is a difference between sneak, invisibility, and cloak, but they all have one thing in common: stealth. We all know that NBs are a stealthy class and like to maneuver around in stealth for a variety of reasons.

Question: How do NBs get into stealth (i.e., when not detected by the opposing)?
Answer:

• stay in a crouched-down position until their 'sneak-eye' is closed,
• press cloak, or
• consume an invisibility pot

I have played (almost exclusively) as SNB for 3 years now and am fairly well versed on the topic (experience, research, observation, chatting with others, etc.,). Honestly, most SNBs don't go around spamming cloak as a stealth strategy ('spam cast' range for most SNBs is 4-7 times). Most SNBs rely on sneak-mode as their primary means of stealth. We all know that when in sneak-mode, a player gains a certain radius of 'non-detection' and that radius is a fairly static one (true for anyone, not just NBs). However, a NB can take that up a notch. How? Over time, a SNB can become very attune to their own (sneak) range of 'non-detection' ... it sort of becomes second nature to them. They use sneak-mode as their primary stealth strategy, but, as a SNB, they also have Cloak to use as a back-up or secondary strategy. Some also slot invisibility pots as a 'back-up' to their 'back-up' strategy. In other words, a SNB will cloak when they think their (sneak) non-detection radius is about to be broken, and if cloak fails, they pop an invisibility pot. The more experienced you are, the more successful you will be.

I hope this helps explain why most SNBs really aren't going around Cyrodiil spamming Cloak. The root of the problem isn't cloak and it's not 'just' a NB issue. ANYONE can adopt a stealthy play-style ... in situations where a SNB might press cloak, a player of a different class might simply adjust their position or use an invisibility potion. Either way, the effectiveness of stealth (as a play style) is directly tied to all those 'stealthers' having learned a.) how to work with and b.) how to work around the rather predictable normal 'non-detection' rage of sneak.

Bottom line: Only when enough of Cyrodiil's population shakes things up a bit by making the non-detection radius of sneak much less predictable, will we ever see a real reduction in "stealth" as a viable pvp playstyle. This includes wearing armor sets like Sentry and Way of the Air, using detect pots, mage light, etc.,

Wrubius_Coronaria

This post has been made as a psychological experience? Right?

No, wait, you are serious?

Ragnaroek93

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

I think not only the people posting here but also ZOS should take this OP serious.

He is without a doubt one of the most competent players, and especially on stamblade. Been a top dueler since ages.

Since when has dueling ever been a consideration for balance changes? None of the actual content in this game is 1v1

1v1 is part of the game so it shouldn't be ignored as well. All aspects of the game let be it largescale, smallscale, battlegrounds, duels or PvE should be considered for balance.
I don't understand why you even take part in this discussion. You don't like playing PvP at all (according to your own topic) so why do you come here?

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

I think not only the people posting here but also ZOS should take this OP serious.

He is without a doubt one of the most competent players, and especially on stamblade. Been a top dueler since ages.

I would take the OP seriously if the OP provided any good reasoning to support their claim that cloak is "completely overpowered."

How long or how well the player plays is a bad argument for why we should take this thread seriously.

Nightblade is a bit overtuned in general. Sure, you could nerf other things than Cloak (or buff other classes) but why? Nerfing Cloak would have no impact on endgame PvE, it would only nerf them in PvP without destroying a complete playstyle. It would only require Nightblades to play a bit more careful. Nerfing Shade would destroy magblade and bowblade playstyle because it requires a lot of kiting, we all saw how pitiful nb was when Shade was not working. Removing stun from Incap would be another option which doesn't affect PvE but that would mostly effect only stam nb while leaving mag nb untouched, you would need to nerf something else from magnb too then.

The reason why I rate Nb as overtuned is simply because over one third of the population is currently playing one and therefore nerfs will most likely happen. You already see nerf suggestions from people who most likely don't even play the class by themselves, for example removing heal while being in Cloak, giving Mark Target to every class, let dots go through Cloak or taking away Major Resolve/Ward completely from Nb rofl... Do you rather have one of this? Some stupid overnerf suggestion made from people who don't play the class? Don't you think it's better that nerf suggestions do actually come from people who play that class (as long as we can get past blind class bias)?

Ender1310 wrote: »

OP. Explain your build that allows you to perma cloak as a stamblade and allows you to blow people up please? And are you on PC or console?

You actually have to build for some survivability: on stam Nb you need stamregen than most other stambuilds and a bit more magicka regen as well (use Tripots, Shacklebreaker or Gold Food for example). Other classes can play with much less regen but have to go for higher resistance, more healing power and maybe more health instead, that makes it kinda balanced. I'm playing on Pc btw.

QuebraRegra wrote: »

GTFO! just GTFO! and L2p while yer at it.

troll post?

Thanks for your meaningful input. Gave you an insightful.

thankyourat

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

I think not only the people posting here but also ZOS should take this OP serious.

He is without a doubt one of the most competent players, and especially on stamblade. Been a top dueler since ages.

Since when has dueling ever been a consideration for balance changes? None of the actual content in this game is 1v1

Uuuh, yes??? This game's PvP is balanced ONLY for 1v1.
You get no helping tools like dynamic ult gen to deal with 1v2 or higher. Cyrodiil is won by numbers or anti-number specialization, not by how good you are with your class. Only in 1v1 with open world builds do you see a shimmer of combat balance.
When you talk of an experienced duelist, that person probably knows a lot about his main class, and also other classes. So that's valuable feedback.
What you're implying is that NBs oneshotting you from stealth would be totally fine, because destro trains would take keeps and were therefore balanced. It's an excuse to neglect class balancing.

But most experienced duelist wouldn't consider stam nightblade all that good. It's definitely not going to one shot anyone experienced. That's why I don't think 1v1 is a good way to balance the game. By 1v1 balance stamblade isn't all that good it's just an average class, but actual cyrodiil combat we both know that to be false and stamblade is really good. I don't think it's too strong though. It's pretty balanced, it is probably the second most played class behind magplar but I don't think that justifies a nerf.

Skander

PS: OP is a veteran stamblade.
Seeing as MAGBLADE some STAMBLE being able to cloack more becouse WE KNOW THAT STAMINA DOESN'T NEED MAGICKA AND THUS CAN USE IT TO BUFF ITSELF. When on the other side magicka uses stamina just for breaking free. or some dodging.

thankyourat

@Ragnaroek93 I don't think the fact that there is a lot of nightblades in cyrodiil justifies a nerf. I still see more magplars in cyrodiil on average, but I think both classes at fine. The class I see the least is warden but it's by far the strongest class. I don't think think class population is a good way to balance classes. Players might flock to stamblade simply because it's very user friendly and easy to pick up. Because if you think about it magblade is twice as good as stamblade but magblades are honestly kind of rare in cyrodiil (even though they are every where in wayrest). It's because magblade is harder to pick up and play

technohic

thankyourat wrote: »

@Ragnaroek93 I don't think the fact that there is a lot of nightblades in cyrodiil justifies a nerf. I still see more magplars in cyrodiil on average, but I think both classes at fine. The class I see the least is warden but it's by far the strongest class. I don't think think class population is a good way to balance classes. Players might flock to stamblade simply because it's very user friendly and easy to pick up. Because if you think about it magblade is twice as good as stamblade but magblades are honestly kind of rare in cyrodiil (even though they are every where in wayrest). It's because magblade is harder to pick up and play

You have to get to the smaller scale scene in open world. You’ll see more magplar in zergs for heals. If you wander off to smaller scale if solo, duo, and up to 6 players; it’s a lot of NBs, stamWardens, DKs.

Ragnarock41

technohic wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

@Ragnaroek93 I don't think the fact that there is a lot of nightblades in cyrodiil justifies a nerf. I still see more magplars in cyrodiil on average, but I think both classes at fine. The class I see the least is warden but it's by far the strongest class. I don't think think class population is a good way to balance classes. Players might flock to stamblade simply because it's very user friendly and easy to pick up. Because if you think about it magblade is twice as good as stamblade but magblades are honestly kind of rare in cyrodiil (even though they are every where in wayrest). It's because magblade is harder to pick up and play

You have to get to the smaller scale scene in open world. You’ll see more magplar in zergs for heals. If you wander off to smaller scale if solo, duo, and up to 6 players; it’s a lot of NBs, stamWardens, DKs.

stamplar and stamsorcs are also back with vengeance. tho they are still rare compared to the ridicilous nb population.

I also tried playing a stamden a few months ago. I had no idea how to play one, yet I still did very nice with just sub assault+dawnbreaker combo, I was melting people left and right. that class is absolutely crazy and nightblade can't even hope to be like it when it comes to raids.

Anyways, stamden is all about sub assault, when there are less than 6 people around, stamblade is the stronger class.

technohic

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

@Ragnaroek93 I don't think the fact that there is a lot of nightblades in cyrodiil justifies a nerf. I still see more magplars in cyrodiil on average, but I think both classes at fine. The class I see the least is warden but it's by far the strongest class. I don't think think class population is a good way to balance classes. Players might flock to stamblade simply because it's very user friendly and easy to pick up. Because if you think about it magblade is twice as good as stamblade but magblades are honestly kind of rare in cyrodiil (even though they are every where in wayrest). It's because magblade is harder to pick up and play

You have to get to the smaller scale scene in open world. You’ll see more magplar in zergs for heals. If you wander off to smaller scale if solo, duo, and up to 6 players; it’s a lot of NBs, stamWardens, DKs.

stamplar and stamsorcs are also back with vengeance. tho they are still rare compared to the ridicilous nb population.

I also tried playing a stamden a few months ago. I had no idea how to play one, yet I still did very nice with just sub assault+dawnbreaker combo, I was melting people left and right. that class is absolutely crazy and nightblade can't even hope to be like it when it comes to raids.

Anyways, stamden is all about sub assault, when there are less than 6 people around, stamblade is the stronger class.

Yeah Stamplar and stam sorc are sprinkled in. They’re kind of in a spot where people don’t realize how good they are. Especially stam sorc as they were thought of competing with stam DK as worst class in PVP just weeks ago

idk

Bashev wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Magelight.
Expert hunter.
Mark target.
Revealing flare.
Detect potions.
Any aoe ability.

Those are all hard counters to cloak.

A stamina nightblade can cloak 3-4 times before using up all magicka. He might get one more in if he uses a magicka potion. Its actually smarter to use an invisibility potion at that point for 15-20 seconds of invis, which is probably what a lot of players are doing and it gets misconstrued as cloak, but any class can use those.

Streak has no reliable counters, even gap closers just took a hefty nerf with Dragon bones. Sorcs still complaining like always though.

In addition to the above, there are also (at least) 2 armor sets that also counter sneak:

Sentry
(5 items) Increases the radius you can detect Sneaking enemies by 50%. Increases your damage done to Sneaking enemies by 20%.
Way of Air
(4 items) Increases stealth detection radius by 2 meters.

I can't think of any other skill in this game that that been given so many counters to it as cloak.

In a way, ZOS wanted cloak to be a spamable skill. This was back when they nerfed cloak by removing it's purge effect.

It used to be that NBs need only cloak 1x to access a purge effect (cloak used to remove 1 negative effect, much like the Warden's Betty Netch). Unfortunately, back then, many people complained about the NB's having a 'free' purge compared to the resource cost many others had to 'pay' to use the alliance support skill 'purge.'

Well, ZOS fixed that issue! They a.) removed the 'free purge' from NB's cloak, and b.) replaced it with a sort-of 'purge-like-effect' ... but there was a catch! In order to make full use of this 'purge-like-effect', NBs had to spam cloak several times in a row. Problem solved! By putting NBs in the position of having to spam cloak, ZOS indirectly increased the NBs cost to access this 'purge-like-effect' which, in turn, helped to level out the playing field when it came to the 'purge cost' issue.

While I think cloak is fine the way it is, IF it were changed to dampen it's 'spamability', then 2 things would need to happen:
a.) Return the purge back to cloak; and
b.) increase the duration of cloak to 6 seconds.

Again. Good point bringing up the counters to cloak again. Even OP has stated the hard counters stop NBs from cloaking. I am still waiting fir the logic as to why cloak needs to be nerfed.

Can you explain what counter are these 2 sets to cloak?

If you expand what I quoted you will see he quoted another to remind all of the hard counters. The sets are merely a small plus.

But your reply offers another chance to mention there are hard counters which, like everything else, can be a challenge to use until one becomes comfortable with executing it in action. That seems to be the case with a number of those who have posted in this thread such as OP.

thankyourat

technohic wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

@Ragnaroek93 I don't think the fact that there is a lot of nightblades in cyrodiil justifies a nerf. I still see more magplars in cyrodiil on average, but I think both classes at fine. The class I see the least is warden but it's by far the strongest class. I don't think think class population is a good way to balance classes. Players might flock to stamblade simply because it's very user friendly and easy to pick up. Because if you think about it magblade is twice as good as stamblade but magblades are honestly kind of rare in cyrodiil (even though they are every where in wayrest). It's because magblade is harder to pick up and play

You have to get to the smaller scale scene in open world. You’ll see more magplar in zergs for heals. If you wander off to smaller scale if solo, duo, and up to 6 players; it’s a lot of NBs, stamWardens, DKs.

I only play solo. I see alot of stamblades I just see more magplars on average. I don't play battlegrounds. Every fight I get into there is a magplar. Stamblade is a close second though. Maybe if I played small group vs small group it would be different but for solo play magplars are the number 1 class I encounter

technohic

thankyourat wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

@Ragnaroek93 I don't think the fact that there is a lot of nightblades in cyrodiil justifies a nerf. I still see more magplars in cyrodiil on average, but I think both classes at fine. The class I see the least is warden but it's by far the strongest class. I don't think think class population is a good way to balance classes. Players might flock to stamblade simply because it's very user friendly and easy to pick up. Because if you think about it magblade is twice as good as stamblade but magblades are honestly kind of rare in cyrodiil (even though they are every where in wayrest). It's because magblade is harder to pick up and play

You have to get to the smaller scale scene in open world. You’ll see more magplar in zergs for heals. If you wander off to smaller scale if solo, duo, and up to 6 players; it’s a lot of NBs, stamWardens, DKs.

I only play solo. I see alot of stamblades I just see more magplars on average. I don't play battlegrounds. Every fight I get into there is a magplar. Stamblade is a close second though. Maybe if I played small group vs small group it would be different but for solo play magplars are the number 1 class I encounter

Not talking about you being solo. Talking about them being solo. I haven't seen a magplar like that since trollplars were erased.

Lord-Otto

thankyourat wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos wrote: »

I think not only the people posting here but also ZOS should take this OP serious.

He is without a doubt one of the most competent players, and especially on stamblade. Been a top dueler since ages.

Since when has dueling ever been a consideration for balance changes? None of the actual content in this game is 1v1

Uuuh, yes??? This game's PvP is balanced ONLY for 1v1.
You get no helping tools like dynamic ult gen to deal with 1v2 or higher. Cyrodiil is won by numbers or anti-number specialization, not by how good you are with your class. Only in 1v1 with open world builds do you see a shimmer of combat balance.
When you talk of an experienced duelist, that person probably knows a lot about his main class, and also other classes. So that's valuable feedback.
What you're implying is that NBs oneshotting you from stealth would be totally fine, because destro trains would take keeps and were therefore balanced. It's an excuse to neglect class balancing.

But most experienced duelist wouldn't consider stam nightblade all that good. It's definitely not going to one shot anyone experienced. That's why I don't think 1v1 is a good way to balance the game. By 1v1 balance stamblade isn't all that good it's just an average class, but actual cyrodiil combat we both know that to be false and stamblade is really good. I don't think it's too strong though. It's pretty balanced, it is probably the second most played class behind magplar but I don't think that justifies a nerf.

It's why I pointed out open world builds facing each other.
I don't think balancing should primarily focus on two enemies battling each other in a closed circle, wearing sets and builds to specifically combat that one enemy. While not having any terrain and obstacles. So, no regarding pet builds and suchlike.
But the very experienced duelists like Kena typically set a few rules to emulate open world situations, where you would stumble over a lonely enemy on your own. That's closer to what I mean, and it shows those duelists do have vast knowledge outside of "arena fighting".

thankyourat

technohic wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

@Ragnaroek93 I don't think the fact that there is a lot of nightblades in cyrodiil justifies a nerf. I still see more magplars in cyrodiil on average, but I think both classes at fine. The class I see the least is warden but it's by far the strongest class. I don't think think class population is a good way to balance classes. Players might flock to stamblade simply because it's very user friendly and easy to pick up. Because if you think about it magblade is twice as good as stamblade but magblades are honestly kind of rare in cyrodiil (even though they are every where in wayrest). It's because magblade is harder to pick up and play

You have to get to the smaller scale scene in open world. You’ll see more magplar in zergs for heals. If you wander off to smaller scale if solo, duo, and up to 6 players; it’s a lot of NBs, stamWardens, DKs.

I only play solo. I see alot of stamblades I just see more magplars on average. I don't play battlegrounds. Every fight I get into there is a magplar. Stamblade is a close second though. Maybe if I played small group vs small group it would be different but for solo play magplars are the number 1 class I encounter

Not talking about you being solo. Talking about them being solo. I haven't seen a magplar like that since trollplars were erased.

I kind of see what you are saying but for the most part if you play solo what are the odds of you getting a fight against another solo player. If you do happen to get a solo 1v1 I do agree more times than not it will be a stamblade, but for the most part as a solo player you'll be fighting groups and there will almost 100℅ of the time be a magplar present. the other classes are a toss up

Ragnarock41

technohic wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

@Ragnaroek93 I don't think the fact that there is a lot of nightblades in cyrodiil justifies a nerf. I still see more magplars in cyrodiil on average, but I think both classes at fine. The class I see the least is warden but it's by far the strongest class. I don't think think class population is a good way to balance classes. Players might flock to stamblade simply because it's very user friendly and easy to pick up. Because if you think about it magblade is twice as good as stamblade but magblades are honestly kind of rare in cyrodiil (even though they are every where in wayrest). It's because magblade is harder to pick up and play

You have to get to the smaller scale scene in open world. You’ll see more magplar in zergs for heals. If you wander off to smaller scale if solo, duo, and up to 6 players; it’s a lot of NBs, stamWardens, DKs.

stamplar and stamsorcs are also back with vengeance. tho they are still rare compared to the ridicilous nb population.

I also tried playing a stamden a few months ago. I had no idea how to play one, yet I still did very nice with just sub assault+dawnbreaker combo, I was melting people left and right. that class is absolutely crazy and nightblade can't even hope to be like it when it comes to raids.

Anyways, stamden is all about sub assault, when there are less than 6 people around, stamblade is the stronger class.

Yeah Stamplar and stam sorc are sprinkled in. They’re kind of in a spot where people don’t realize how good they are. Especially stam sorc as they were thought of competing with stam DK as worst class in PVP just weeks ago

thing is, now stamsorcs actually have better stamina regen than a stamDK, with unstoppable dark deals, and each dark deal gives stamina equal to what I get from a leap, or even more if the stamsorc has a large hp pool. (It scales with max hp afaik, I could be wrong.)


I think its very unfair that dark deal scales with something but battle roar / helping hands are not scaling with anything at all,
Which is ultimately why stamDK is a bad designed (or purposedly gimped) class. Its a class that is punished for building stamina.

Anyways, not saying stamsorc is op or anything, I'm happy to see stamsorc strong, but the design choice of making dark deal unstoppable was a very bad one, and will create problems in the future.

Verbz

Only read page 1 so im not sure if its been said, but, i agree partly..

I do think it needs a nerf on the stamina side of things, one way i feel they could do this is give an increased cost on cloak if players stamina resource is the highest of the 2 mag/stam. I dont feel it warrants a nerf for magblades imho.