How do you sustain this?
NiclasFridholm wrote: »Will try this on magplar tonight Nate, you gonna be online?
@Raghul, if you used lightning vMA staff on back bar and opened with Destro ult while keeping Soul Harvest on the front bar, would that perform better? I'm not sure why you're gimping yourself without the chance for Concussion and Off Balance and both your Blockade and your Path will deal higher damage.
It's not particularly cheesy or anything. Arguably meteor is more cheesy for dummy tests, since you'd never use that skill in PvE. You'll need either single target Soul Harvest or AoE destro ult for trials. Also for High Elves (like me) it should be DPS better than fire destro in this DW/Destro setup. What race are you again?
@Raghul, if you used lightning vMA staff on back bar and opened with Destro ult while keeping Soul Harvest on the front bar, would that perform better? I'm not sure why you're gimping yourself without the chance for Concussion and Off Balance and both your Blockade and your Path will deal higher damage.
It's not particularly cheesy or anything. Arguably meteor is more cheesy for dummy tests, since you'd never use that skill in PvE. You'll need either single target Soul Harvest or AoE destro ult for trials. Also for High Elves (like me) it should be DPS better than fire destro in this DW/Destro setup. What race are you again?
I don't think so, offbalance has a low uptime now, light attacks from lightning staff will deal less damage, if you barswap cancel your bow proc it won't benefit from the 8% increased damage from inferno staff, and with soul harvest backbar you still get the nd passive wich gives 10% crit damage. Also meteor is nice on frontbar because the 4 pc set of aquity is only active on front bar (max magicka) so with meteor frontbar you will get more resources from it on the frontbar with mages guild passives, it works well together like this actually.
I play high elf myself, and in a raid there will be offbalance and minor vurnerability active, if i can get these numbers without those buffs on a selfbuffed test, it would mean that in a raid my numbers will become even better. I still hope i can find a good magdk build for engulfing flames so they can buff my wall of fire even more in a raid xD
And if i will be able to get good numbers on magplar with MA, aquity,l and zaan they will also be able to buff the melee camp with their cheap ult giving major slayer
@Raghul, if you used lightning vMA staff on back bar and opened with Destro ult while keeping Soul Harvest on the front bar, would that perform better? I'm not sure why you're gimping yourself without the chance for Concussion and Off Balance and both your Blockade and your Path will deal higher damage.
It's not particularly cheesy or anything. Arguably meteor is more cheesy for dummy tests, since you'd never use that skill in PvE. You'll need either single target Soul Harvest or AoE destro ult for trials. Also for High Elves (like me) it should be DPS better than fire destro in this DW/Destro setup. What race are you again?
I don't think so, offbalance has a low uptime now, light attacks from lightning staff will deal less damage, if you barswap cancel your bow proc it won't benefit from the 8% increased damage from inferno staff, and with soul harvest backbar you still get the nd passive wich gives 10% crit damage. Also meteor is nice on frontbar because the 4 pc set of aquity is only active on front bar (max magicka) so with meteor frontbar you will get more resources from it on the frontbar with mages guild passives, it works well together like this actually.
I play high elf myself, and in a raid there will be offbalance and minor vurnerability active, if i can get these numbers without those buffs on a selfbuffed test, it would mean that in a raid my numbers will become even better. I still hope i can find a good magdk build for engulfing flames so they can buff my wall of fire even more in a raid xD
And if i will be able to get good numbers on magplar with MA, aquity,l and zaan they will also be able to buff the melee camp with their cheap ult giving major slayer
Fair enough, good explanation. I somehow forgot about having Haemorrhage on the back bar. Though I doubt you get much benefit for swap-cancelling bow. 8% from Ancient Knowledge vs 5% from Twin Blade and Blunt + the extra spell damage on front bar. Might even be better on front bar. If you put Merciless on your back bar in place of Path what does the tooltip read, is it higher or lower than front bar?
As for Engulfing Flames, our DK Tank is running it which removes any need for the sub-par DK dps in raid. And him casting Igneous every 6-7", means he keeps 100% uptime on Minor Brutality for the nearby melee stam DPS.
EDIT: Which is why it works quite well actually to have 2 DKs in raid, a tank and melee DPS debuffer with Sunder. The rest of the melee DPS are better off being stamblades to buff each other up with War Machine and get the Minor Brutality from the DK tank. Survivability also very good due to Deadly Cloak.
How do you sustain this?
Same way every mageblade sustains, why do you think it'd have worse sustain than destro/destro? He light attacks on DW bar as well which procs returns from Ele Drain and Siphoning Attacks. You never need to heavy attack on mageblade.
In trials you'd also have orbs and other synergies. In fact even more synergies than ranged mageblade because you can use Templar Spears and Liquid Lightning synergies on top of the bubbles. Sustain should be better not worse.
@Raghul, if you used lightning vMA staff on back bar and opened with Destro ult while keeping Soul Harvest on the front bar, would that perform better? I'm not sure why you're gimping yourself without the chance for Concussion and Off Balance and both your Blockade and your Path will deal higher damage.
It's not particularly cheesy or anything. Arguably meteor is more cheesy for dummy tests, since you'd never use that skill in PvE. You'll need either single target Soul Harvest or AoE destro ult for trials. Also for High Elves (like me) it should be DPS better than fire destro in this DW/Destro setup. What race are you again?
I don't think so, offbalance has a low uptime now, light attacks from lightning staff will deal less damage, if you barswap cancel your bow proc it won't benefit from the 8% increased damage from inferno staff, and with soul harvest backbar you still get the nd passive wich gives 10% crit damage. Also meteor is nice on frontbar because the 4 pc set of aquity is only active on front bar (max magicka) so with meteor frontbar you will get more resources from it on the frontbar with mages guild passives, it works well together like this actually.
I play high elf myself, and in a raid there will be offbalance and minor vurnerability active, if i can get these numbers without those buffs on a selfbuffed test, it would mean that in a raid my numbers will become even better. I still hope i can find a good magdk build for engulfing flames so they can buff my wall of fire even more in a raid xD
And if i will be able to get good numbers on magplar with MA, aquity,l and zaan they will also be able to buff the melee camp with their cheap ult giving major slayer
Fair enough, good explanation. I somehow forgot about having Haemorrhage on the back bar. Though I doubt you get much benefit for swap-cancelling bow. 8% from Ancient Knowledge vs 5% from Twin Blade and Blunt + the extra spell damage on front bar. Might even be better on front bar. If you put Merciless on your back bar in place of Path what does the tooltip read, is it higher or lower than front bar?
As for Engulfing Flames, our DK Tank is running it which removes any need for the sub-par DK dps in raid. And him casting Igneous every 6-7", means he keeps 100% uptime on Minor Brutality for the nearby melee stam DPS.
EDIT: Which is why it works quite well actually to have 2 DKs in raid, a tank and melee DPS debuffer with Sunder. The rest of the melee DPS are better off being stamblades to buff each other up with War Machine and get the Minor Brutality from the DK tank. Survivability also very good due to Deadly Cloak.
I agree, and about the barswap cancelling, the bow does indeed more damage on frontbar, but i find myself barswap cancelling the bow sometimes because one of my dots on backbar run out so i won't lose to much damage with fire staff backbar
How do you sustain this?
Same way every mageblade sustains, why do you think it'd have worse sustain than destro/destro? He light attacks on DW bar as well which procs returns from Ele Drain and Siphoning Attacks. You never need to heavy attack on mageblade.
In trials you'd also have orbs and other synergies. In fact even more synergies than ranged mageblade because you can use Templar Spears and Liquid Lightning synergies on top of the bubbles. Sustain should be better not worse.
new melee magblade target dummy meta*
Did you try a 6mio dummy? How does it compare to a normal setup on a 6 mio dummy?
Will start testing on 6 mill this evening, didn't have time yesterday as i worked pretty late and still had to get my swords etc.
But i can imagine it also be alot higher, i had alot of parses on 3 mill were i was almost at execute and my dps was still 48k, then one parse 48.5k where my impale only critted 1 time out of 7, would have been 51k i think if aquity would have procced on execute ^^
I am quite surprised that the loss of light attacks on dualwield does not end up in a dps loss. Did you try similar setup but with Staves?
I am mostly wondering because I would guess this could also work for Magicka Templars then? I miss my dualwield Magplar >.>
How do you sustain this?
Same way every mageblade sustains, why do you think it'd have worse sustain than destro/destro? He light attacks on DW bar as well which procs returns from Ele Drain and Siphoning Attacks. You never need to heavy attack on mageblade.
In trials you'd also have orbs and other synergies. In fact even more synergies than ranged mageblade because you can use Templar Spears and Liquid Lightning synergies on top of the bubbles. Sustain should be better not worse.
Nah with blue food sustain won't work in raids without heavies. Especially if using Concealed Weapon because it costs way too much for what it does. Also no one is meant to touch the Conduit synergy aside from the tank. Conduit = Alkosh. Without Conduit, there is no good Alkosh uptime.
How do you sustain this?
Same way every mageblade sustains, why do you think it'd have worse sustain than destro/destro? He light attacks on DW bar as well which procs returns from Ele Drain and Siphoning Attacks. You never need to heavy attack on mageblade.
In trials you'd also have orbs and other synergies. In fact even more synergies than ranged mageblade because you can use Templar Spears and Liquid Lightning synergies on top of the bubbles. Sustain should be better not worse.
Cos it looks like he's using blue max stat food and concealed weapons is quite a bit more expensive than funnel. I for one, need to use witch mothers on my magblade if i want any hopes of sustaining anything longer than a 60s dummy burn-down. That's why I'm asking.
I guess the improved synergies are definetly a thing yea, but is it enough for a longer boss fight?
How do you sustain this?
Same way every mageblade sustains, why do you think it'd have worse sustain than destro/destro? He light attacks on DW bar as well which procs returns from Ele Drain and Siphoning Attacks. You never need to heavy attack on mageblade.
In trials you'd also have orbs and other synergies. In fact even more synergies than ranged mageblade because you can use Templar Spears and Liquid Lightning synergies on top of the bubbles. Sustain should be better not worse.
Nah with blue food sustain won't work in raids without heavies. Especially if using Concealed Weapon because it costs way too much for what it does. Also no one is meant to touch the Conduit synergy aside from the tank. Conduit = Alkosh. Without Conduit, there is no good Alkosh uptime.How do you sustain this?
Same way every mageblade sustains, why do you think it'd have worse sustain than destro/destro? He light attacks on DW bar as well which procs returns from Ele Drain and Siphoning Attacks. You never need to heavy attack on mageblade.
In trials you'd also have orbs and other synergies. In fact even more synergies than ranged mageblade because you can use Templar Spears and Liquid Lightning synergies on top of the bubbles. Sustain should be better not worse.
Cos it looks like he's using blue max stat food and concealed weapons is quite a bit more expensive than funnel. I for one, need to use witch mothers on my magblade if i want any hopes of sustaining anything longer than a 60s dummy burn-down. That's why I'm asking.
I guess the improved synergies are definetly a thing yea, but is it enough for a longer boss fight?
It's already been established further up this thread that Funnel is better than Surprise Attack overall and on a 6m dummy or trials you'd certainly pick Funnel. Both for helping the melee deeps with heals and for the sustain. The DPS loss overall is less than 500 so the only reason Rhagul is picking it here is to put the highest possible deeps on the 3m dummy. A bit of cheesing, if you will, but unimportant.
As for what synergies the melee deeps are supposed to pick up... There's usually 2 Liquid Lightnings (in our group) and 2 Spears under the boss as well as bubbles flying towards it. The tank only needs 1 synergy every 10" for Alkosh to proc and he's got a cooldown on the synergies of the same type which means every 2nd Liquid or Spear synergy is useless to the tank. I think too much is being made of that, personally. I've never really heard our tank complain he has no synergy to activate every 5-6 seconds, especially since the recent changes.
The dps will rarely pick up anything other than bubbles. They mostly use other synergies to recover from a non-Templar rez when their pool is at 10% and the pot is on CD.
How do you sustain this?
Same way every mageblade sustains, why do you think it'd have worse sustain than destro/destro? He light attacks on DW bar as well which procs returns from Ele Drain and Siphoning Attacks. You never need to heavy attack on mageblade.
In trials you'd also have orbs and other synergies. In fact even more synergies than ranged mageblade because you can use Templar Spears and Liquid Lightning synergies on top of the bubbles. Sustain should be better not worse.
Nah with blue food sustain won't work in raids without heavies. Especially if using Concealed Weapon because it costs way too much for what it does. Also no one is meant to touch the Conduit synergy aside from the tank. Conduit = Alkosh. Without Conduit, there is no good Alkosh uptime.
new melee magblade target dummy meta*
Did you try a 6mio dummy? How does it compare to a normal setup on a 6 mio dummy?
Will start testing on 6 mill this evening, didn't have time yesterday as i worked pretty late and still had to get my swords etc.
But i can imagine it also be alot higher, i had alot of parses on 3 mill were i was almost at execute and my dps was still 48k, then one parse 48.5k where my impale only critted 1 time out of 7, would have been 51k i think if aquity would have procced on execute ^^
I am quite surprised that the loss of light attacks on dualwield does not end up in a dps loss. Did you try similar setup but with Staves?
I am mostly wondering because I would guess this could also work for Magicka Templars then? I miss my dualwield Magplar >.>
@Alcast Have you tried Moondancer (dualwield) + Acuity this patch on magplar?
Also miss the Dualwield magplar
LiquidPony wrote: »What are your results using a Mundus stone you'd use in raid?
I use the lover i raid with 10 points in erosion
huschdeguddzje wrote: »How well would this work on a magdk?
I never made one, but considering that I finally got above 36k (cp333)with a similar setup on magblade, this might be a interesting incentive.
huschdeguddzje wrote: »How well would this work on a magdk?
I never made one, but considering that I finally got above 36k (cp333)with a similar setup on magblade, this might be a interesting incentive.
Terribly since Master Architect is very poor for MagDK. If you swap it for BSW you'll get better results but I doubt it could reach anything like the MagBlade damage output. And when you start testing on the 6m dummy the lack of sustain and execute on the DK will start to bite and damage fall off more sharply
@Raghul, if you used lightning vMA staff on back bar and opened with Destro ult while keeping Soul Harvest on the front bar, would that perform better? I'm not sure why you're gimping yourself without the chance for Concussion and Off Balance and both your Blockade and your Path will deal higher damage.
It's not particularly cheesy or anything. Arguably meteor is more cheesy for dummy tests, since you'd never use that skill in PvE. You'll need either single target Soul Harvest or AoE destro ult for trials. Also for High Elves (like me) it should be DPS better than fire destro in this DW/Destro setup. What race are you again?
I don't think so, offbalance has a low uptime now, light attacks from lightning staff will deal less damage, if you barswap cancel your bow proc it won't benefit from the 8% increased damage from inferno staff, and with soul harvest backbar you still get the nd passive wich gives 10% crit damage. Also meteor is nice on frontbar because the 4 pc set of aquity is only active on front bar (max magicka) so with meteor frontbar you will get more resources from it on the frontbar with mages guild passives, it works well together like this actually.
I play high elf myself, and in a raid there will be offbalance and minor vurnerability active, if i can get these numbers without those buffs on a selfbuffed test, it would mean that in a raid my numbers will become even better. I still hope i can find a good magdk build for engulfing flames so they can buff my wall of fire even more in a raid xD
And if i will be able to get good numbers on magplar with MA, aquity,l and zaan they will also be able to buff the melee camp with their cheap ult giving major slayer
Fair enough, good explanation. I somehow forgot about having Haemorrhage on the back bar. Though I doubt you get much benefit for swap-cancelling bow. 8% from Ancient Knowledge vs 5% from Twin Blade and Blunt + the extra spell damage on front bar. Might even be better on front bar. If you put Merciless on your back bar in place of Path what does the tooltip read, is it higher or lower than front bar?
As for Engulfing Flames, our DK Tank is running it which removes any need for the sub-par DK dps in raid. And him casting Igneous every 6-7", means he keeps 100% uptime on Minor Brutality for the nearby melee stam DPS.
EDIT: Which is why it works quite well actually to have 2 DKs in raid, a tank and melee DPS debuffer with Sunder. The rest of the melee DPS are better off being stamblades to buff each other up with War Machine and get the Minor Brutality from the DK tank. Survivability also very good due to Deadly Cloak.
I agree, and about the barswap cancelling, the bow does indeed more damage on frontbar, but i find myself barswap cancelling the bow sometimes because one of my dots on backbar run out so i won't lose to much damage with fire staff backbar
Fire off the bow proc > light attack > then bar swap > apply blockade without a light attack beforehand. Solved.
here is a magicka templar test from that build, did like 5 parses and managed to get this:
(nearly 44k)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvVU0DeGIh4
NiclasFridholm wrote: »here is a magicka templar test from that build, did like 5 parses and managed to get this:
(nearly 44k)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvVU0DeGIh4
Ty for the help Nate, awesome job!
gethemshauna wrote: »Inferno staff light attacks + increased uptime of burning effect from destros passive already would give you more dps in trials I think, especially with engulfing flames (ik Zaan is fire dmg aswell). But - the thing is build is insanely fun to play and that's more important than anything else
NiclasFridholm wrote: »gethemshauna wrote: »Inferno staff light attacks + increased uptime of burning effect from destros passive already would give you more dps in trials I think, especially with engulfing flames (ik Zaan is fire dmg aswell). But - the thing is build is insanely fun to play and that's more important than anything else
Shauna! When are you gonna come raid with us?