VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
VaranisArano wrote: »Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
@VaranisArano Keep your bs to your self. If you have nothing constructive to add then just stop posting.
VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
@VaranisArano Keep your bs to your self. If you have nothing constructive to add then just stop posting.
Try getting organized and looking for ranged skills to use against ball groups. Use CCs to lock down their tail and pull them apart. Don't stand in the way when they turn on you with the inevitable destro ulti pain train. You've got to exhaust the earthgore procs before you can kill them, but it can be done.
You need numbers, organization, situational awareness, and DPS. But if you are so sure it cannot be done, you have already failed.
techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
@VaranisArano Keep your bs to your self. If you have nothing constructive to add then just stop posting.
Try getting organized and looking for ranged skills to use against ball groups. Use CCs to lock down their tail and pull them apart. Don't stand in the way when they turn on you with the inevitable destro ulti pain train. You've got to exhaust the earthgore procs before you can kill them, but it can be done.
You need numbers, organization, situational awareness, and DPS. But if you are so sure it cannot be done, you have already failed.
@VaranisArano Meteor cant stop them, negate is stationary. Either you are trolling hard which is most likely the case or you are fighting against potatoes.
VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
@VaranisArano Keep your bs to your self. If you have nothing constructive to add then just stop posting.
Try getting organized and looking for ranged skills to use against ball groups. Use CCs to lock down their tail and pull them apart. Don't stand in the way when they turn on you with the inevitable destro ulti pain train. You've got to exhaust the earthgore procs before you can kill them, but it can be done.
You need numbers, organization, situational awareness, and DPS. But if you are so sure it cannot be done, you have already failed.
@VaranisArano Meteor cant stop them, negate is stationary. Either you are trolling hard which is most likely the case or you are fighting against potatoes.
Sure, I totally didn't watch my guild and PUGs pull apart and kill an ball group guild we know runs multiple Earthgore sets on Tuesday in Vivec. I mean, I'm not claiming I was great. I died several times to their destro ultis, then came back out to fight and eventually win. But I've seen it done. I've helped do it.
If you choose not to believe me, that's fine. Not my problem. But if that's the case, I'll wish you the best against ball groups and we're done here.
techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
@VaranisArano Keep your bs to your self. If you have nothing constructive to add then just stop posting.
Try getting organized and looking for ranged skills to use against ball groups. Use CCs to lock down their tail and pull them apart. Don't stand in the way when they turn on you with the inevitable destro ulti pain train. You've got to exhaust the earthgore procs before you can kill them, but it can be done.
You need numbers, organization, situational awareness, and DPS. But if you are so sure it cannot be done, you have already failed.
@VaranisArano Meteor cant stop them, negate is stationary. Either you are trolling hard which is most likely the case or you are fighting against potatoes.
Sure, I totally didn't watch my guild and PUGs pull apart and kill an ball group guild we know runs multiple Earthgore sets on Tuesday in Vivec. I mean, I'm not claiming I was great. I died several times to their destro ultis, then came back out to fight and eventually win. But I've seen it done. I've helped do it.
If you choose not to believe me, that's fine. Not my problem. But if that's the case, I'll wish you the best against ball groups and we're done here.
@VaranisArano Why would anyone believe you, you have given no evidence to back your claims.
VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
@VaranisArano Keep your bs to your self. If you have nothing constructive to add then just stop posting.
Try getting organized and looking for ranged skills to use against ball groups. Use CCs to lock down their tail and pull them apart. Don't stand in the way when they turn on you with the inevitable destro ulti pain train. You've got to exhaust the earthgore procs before you can kill them, but it can be done.
You need numbers, organization, situational awareness, and DPS. But if you are so sure it cannot be done, you have already failed.
@VaranisArano Meteor cant stop them, negate is stationary. Either you are trolling hard which is most likely the case or you are fighting against potatoes.
Sure, I totally didn't watch my guild and PUGs pull apart and kill an ball group guild we know runs multiple Earthgore sets on Tuesday in Vivec. I mean, I'm not claiming I was great. I died several times to their destro ultis, then came back out to fight and eventually win. But I've seen it done. I've helped do it.
If you choose not to believe me, that's fine. Not my problem. But if that's the case, I'll wish you the best against ball groups and we're done here.
@VaranisArano Why would anyone believe you, you have given no evidence to back your claims.
What do you want, video? Signed and notarized affidavits from guildies?
Yeah, we're done here. Sorry, I'll leave you to your complaining.
techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
@VaranisArano Keep your bs to your self. If you have nothing constructive to add then just stop posting.
Try getting organized and looking for ranged skills to use against ball groups. Use CCs to lock down their tail and pull them apart. Don't stand in the way when they turn on you with the inevitable destro ulti pain train. You've got to exhaust the earthgore procs before you can kill them, but it can be done.
You need numbers, organization, situational awareness, and DPS. But if you are so sure it cannot be done, you have already failed.
@VaranisArano Meteor cant stop them, negate is stationary. Either you are trolling hard which is most likely the case or you are fighting against potatoes.
Sure, I totally didn't watch my guild and PUGs pull apart and kill an ball group guild we know runs multiple Earthgore sets on Tuesday in Vivec. I mean, I'm not claiming I was great. I died several times to their destro ultis, then came back out to fight and eventually win. But I've seen it done. I've helped do it.
If you choose not to believe me, that's fine. Not my problem. But if that's the case, I'll wish you the best against ball groups and we're done here.
@VaranisArano Why would anyone believe you, you have given no evidence to back your claims.
What do you want, video? Signed and notarized affidavits from guildies?
Yeah, we're done here. Sorry, I'll leave you to your complaining.
Sky is totally pink, because i said so.
VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
@VaranisArano Keep your bs to your self. If you have nothing constructive to add then just stop posting.
Try getting organized and looking for ranged skills to use against ball groups. Use CCs to lock down their tail and pull them apart. Don't stand in the way when they turn on you with the inevitable destro ulti pain train. You've got to exhaust the earthgore procs before you can kill them, but it can be done.
You need numbers, organization, situational awareness, and DPS. But if you are so sure it cannot be done, you have already failed.
@VaranisArano Meteor cant stop them, negate is stationary. Either you are trolling hard which is most likely the case or you are fighting against potatoes.
Sure, I totally didn't watch my guild and PUGs pull apart and kill an ball group guild we know runs multiple Earthgore sets on Tuesday in Vivec. I mean, I'm not claiming I was great. I died several times to their destro ultis, then came back out to fight and eventually win. But I've seen it done. I've helped do it.
If you choose not to believe me, that's fine. Not my problem. But if that's the case, I'll wish you the best against ball groups and we're done here.
@VaranisArano Why would anyone believe you, you have given no evidence to back your claims.
What do you want, video? Signed and notarized affidavits from guildies?
Yeah, we're done here. Sorry, I'll leave you to your complaining.
Sky is totally pink, because i said so.
If its morning or dusk with the right atmospheric conditions...actually it is. Thanks for the laugh, techprince, I needed that.
I knew bone shield was going to be the next big thing. They may have used it prior but its huge now with them all setting at around 30k hp. 15 k shields all around, and people moan about sorcs...
Vilestride wrote: »I don't know what you expect though. It's never going to change large organized groups are never going to have a counter other than other large organized groups and rightfully so. That is the nature of a team based game. Sorry but if you're sitting there waiting for ZoS to implement something that is going to mean 1s and 2s can just smash a button or 2 and blip there goes the organized raid then I hope you're not holding your breath.
meta and whatever ability or sets are strong for whatever patch has nothing to do with it. If you want beat a group like ZS you have to be a group like ZS but better. There is no 2 ways about it. Never was never will be. That's the counter.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4762855/#Comment_4762855We want to encourage more tactical group play where players are encouraged to spread out instead of stacking in a tight ball. We’re still evaluating this aspect of AoE caps, and will make adjustments in the future as necessary
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/386186/monthly-combat-update-december-2017We’re also beginning to look at ways to improve group combat in Cyrodiil, particularly when groups of varying sizes fight each other. Some specific concerns we’ve been looking into include:
Not enough effective options to deal damage to clustered groups from afar
Earthgore is too powerful in group vs group battles
Not enough diversity in Ultimate choice
Large groups can have players take on specialized utility roles, reducing counter-play options against them
We’re still talking about what exactly we’ll be doing, but once we have a better idea of the direction we’re taking, we’ll include it in one of the next combat updates.
I've seen some ball groups get broken up a few times this past week. Not top tier ones though; and its still hard. Basically was siege hitting along with bombers at around the same time.
techprince wrote: »I've seen some ball groups get broken up a few times this past week. Not top tier ones though; and its still hard. Basically was siege hitting along with bombers at around the same time.
Potatoes will still be potatoes even in a group. Problem are the unkillable groups to whom we cannot do much from range.
Vilestride wrote: »I don't know what you expect though. It's never going to change large organized groups are never going to have a counter other than other large organized groups and rightfully so. That is the nature of a team based game. Sorry but if you're sitting there waiting for ZoS to implement something that is going to mean 1s and 2s can just smash a button or 2 and blip there goes the organized raid then I hope you're not holding your breath.
meta and whatever ability or sets are strong for whatever patch has nothing to do with it. If you want beat a group like ZS you have to be a group like ZS but better. There is no 2 ways about it. Never was never will be. That's the counter.
Vilestride wrote: »I don't know what you expect though. It's never going to change large organized groups are never going to have a counter other than other large organized groups and rightfully so. That is the nature of a team based game. Sorry but if you're sitting there waiting for ZoS to implement something that is going to mean 1s and 2s can just smash a button or 2 and blip there goes the organized raid then I hope you're not holding your breath.
techprince wrote: »I've seen some ball groups get broken up a few times this past week. Not top tier ones though; and its still hard. Basically was siege hitting along with bombers at around the same time.
Potatoes will still be potatoes even in a group. Problem are the unkillable groups to whom we cannot do much from range.
techprince wrote: »We still cannot do much against ball groups from range.
Inevitable Detonation cast time is still too high. They just run out of los/range before casting finishes.
Retreating Manuever spammer removes and makes them immune to slows so lightning ballistas arent useful.
Purge spammer removes negative effects placed on them.
Replenish Shield and Bone Shield spammer constantly shields them.
Overflowing altar is now being used for more healing.
Earthgore still heals like crazy.
techprince wrote: »Vilestride wrote: »I don't know what you expect though. It's never going to change large organized groups are never going to have a counter other than other large organized groups and rightfully so. That is the nature of a team based game. Sorry but if you're sitting there waiting for ZoS to implement something that is going to mean 1s and 2s can just smash a button or 2 and blip there goes the organized raid then I hope you're not holding your breath.
meta and whatever ability or sets are strong for whatever patch has nothing to do with it. If you want beat a group like ZS you have to be a group like ZS but better. There is no 2 ways about it. Never was never will be. That's the counter.
You just proved the problem when you said you have to be like ZS (a ball group) to beat ZS (a ball group). This is a huge problem in itself but thats for another discussion. Somehow smashing 3 buttons is better than smashing 2 buttons according to you?
Joy_Division wrote: »The way the game's mechanics work, the way the game's grouping system works, the way cyrodiil's map funnel's players into the same spots, etc., all of the stuff favors "ball groups" and it would take reworking of these systems to make it beneficial and advantageous to spread out.
Vilestride wrote: »techprince wrote: »Vilestride wrote: »I don't know what you expect though. It's never going to change large organized groups are never going to have a counter other than other large organized groups and rightfully so. That is the nature of a team based game. Sorry but if you're sitting there waiting for ZoS to implement something that is going to mean 1s and 2s can just smash a button or 2 and blip there goes the organized raid then I hope you're not holding your breath.
meta and whatever ability or sets are strong for whatever patch has nothing to do with it. If you want beat a group like ZS you have to be a group like ZS but better. There is no 2 ways about it. Never was never will be. That's the counter.
You just proved the problem when you said you have to be like ZS (a ball group) to beat ZS (a ball group). This is a huge problem in itself but thats for another discussion. Somehow smashing 3 buttons is better than smashing 2 buttons according to you?
See, I already disagree. This is not, fundamentally, a problem. These are problems:Joy_Division wrote: »The way the game's mechanics work, the way the game's grouping system works, the way cyrodiil's map funnel's players into the same spots, etc., all of the stuff favors "ball groups" and it would take reworking of these systems to make it beneficial and advantageous to spread out.
The idea that to beat a group of experienced players employing good teamwork, exemplary communication and co-ordination as well as being each individually competent while also dedicating the effort to not only theory craft but acquire the most effective builds that synergize with, and compliment one another, would require anything less than at least doing some of that, is not a problem.
So when I say to 'be a group like ZS', my words aren't so shallow as to suggest 'just use the current meta and you'll be fine'. Sure that will help, but it's not going to make you un-counter-able. The former will.
Organised is always stronger gameplay. You can quote ZoS's intentions all you want but until the patch drops where large groups of organised players aren't successful, my point is not conceded. There is always a next best strategy and it's always going to be groups like ZS who are the first to implement it to it's full potential.