The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 22:
• PC/Mac: NA megaserver for maintenance – April 25, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
• PC/Mac: NA megaserver for maintenance – April 25, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
We still cannot counter ball groups from range
techprince
✭✭✭✭✭
We still cannot do much against ball groups from range.
Inevitable Detonation cast time is still too high. They just run out of los/range before casting finishes.
Retreating Manuever spammer removes and makes them immune to slows so lightning ballistas arent useful.
Purge spammer removes negative effects placed on them.
Replenish Shield and Bone Shield spammer constantly shields them.
Overflowing altar is now being used for more healing.
Earthgore still heals like crazy.
Edited by techprince on February 17, 2018 8:57PM Inevitable Detonation cast time is still too high. They just run out of los/range before casting finishes.
Retreating Manuever spammer removes and makes them immune to slows so lightning ballistas arent useful.
Purge spammer removes negative effects placed on them.
Replenish Shield and Bone Shield spammer constantly shields them.
Overflowing altar is now being used for more healing.
Earthgore still heals like crazy.
6
-
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.3 -
jerj6925✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.7 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
[Deleted]Edited by VaranisArano on February 18, 2018 11:34PM0 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »
Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
@VaranisArano Keep your bs to your self. If you have nothing constructive to add then just stop posting.Edited by techprince on February 18, 2018 2:11AM8 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »
Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
@VaranisArano Keep your bs to your self. If you have nothing constructive to add then just stop posting.
[Deleted]Edited by VaranisArano on February 18, 2018 11:35PM0 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »
Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
@VaranisArano Keep your bs to your self. If you have nothing constructive to add then just stop posting.
Try getting organized and looking for ranged skills to use against ball groups. Use CCs to lock down their tail and pull them apart. Don't stand in the way when they turn on you with the inevitable destro ulti pain train. You've got to exhaust the earthgore procs before you can kill them, but it can be done.
You need numbers, organization, situational awareness, and DPS. But if you are so sure it cannot be done, you have already failed.
@VaranisArano Meteor cant stop them, negate is stationary. Either you are trolling hard which is most likely the case or you are fighting against potatoes.Edited by techprince on February 18, 2018 2:44AM4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »
Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
@VaranisArano Keep your bs to your self. If you have nothing constructive to add then just stop posting.
Try getting organized and looking for ranged skills to use against ball groups. Use CCs to lock down their tail and pull them apart. Don't stand in the way when they turn on you with the inevitable destro ulti pain train. You've got to exhaust the earthgore procs before you can kill them, but it can be done.
You need numbers, organization, situational awareness, and DPS. But if you are so sure it cannot be done, you have already failed.
@VaranisArano Meteor cant stop them, negate is stationary. Either you are trolling hard which is most likely the case or you are fighting against potatoes.
[Deleted]
Edited by VaranisArano on February 18, 2018 11:37PM0 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »
Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
@VaranisArano Keep your bs to your self. If you have nothing constructive to add then just stop posting.
Try getting organized and looking for ranged skills to use against ball groups. Use CCs to lock down their tail and pull them apart. Don't stand in the way when they turn on you with the inevitable destro ulti pain train. You've got to exhaust the earthgore procs before you can kill them, but it can be done.
You need numbers, organization, situational awareness, and DPS. But if you are so sure it cannot be done, you have already failed.
@VaranisArano Meteor cant stop them, negate is stationary. Either you are trolling hard which is most likely the case or you are fighting against potatoes.
Sure, I totally didn't watch my guild and PUGs pull apart and kill an ball group guild we know runs multiple Earthgore sets on Tuesday in Vivec. I mean, I'm not claiming I was great. I died several times to their destro ultis, then came back out to fight and eventually win. But I've seen it done. I've helped do it.
If you choose not to believe me, that's fine. Not my problem. But if that's the case, I'll wish you the best against ball groups and we're done here.
@VaranisArano Why would anyone believe you, you have given no evidence to back your claims. Even i can say that "our group totally killed ZS from range".Edited by techprince on February 18, 2018 2:54AM2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »
Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
@VaranisArano Keep your bs to your self. If you have nothing constructive to add then just stop posting.
Try getting organized and looking for ranged skills to use against ball groups. Use CCs to lock down their tail and pull them apart. Don't stand in the way when they turn on you with the inevitable destro ulti pain train. You've got to exhaust the earthgore procs before you can kill them, but it can be done.
You need numbers, organization, situational awareness, and DPS. But if you are so sure it cannot be done, you have already failed.
@VaranisArano Meteor cant stop them, negate is stationary. Either you are trolling hard which is most likely the case or you are fighting against potatoes.
Sure, I totally didn't watch my guild and PUGs pull apart and kill an ball group guild we know runs multiple Earthgore sets on Tuesday in Vivec. I mean, I'm not claiming I was great. I died several times to their destro ultis, then came back out to fight and eventually win. But I've seen it done. I've helped do it.
If you choose not to believe me, that's fine. Not my problem. But if that's the case, I'll wish you the best against ball groups and we're done here.
@VaranisArano Why would anyone believe you, you have given no evidence to back your claims.
What do you want, video? Signed and notarized affidavits from guildies? Apparently it's impossible that anyone in an organized group can deal with ball groups because you can't.
Yeah, we're done here. Sorry, I'll leave you to your complaining. Best of luck to you.Edited by VaranisArano on February 18, 2018 2:56AM1 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »
Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
@VaranisArano Keep your bs to your self. If you have nothing constructive to add then just stop posting.
Try getting organized and looking for ranged skills to use against ball groups. Use CCs to lock down their tail and pull them apart. Don't stand in the way when they turn on you with the inevitable destro ulti pain train. You've got to exhaust the earthgore procs before you can kill them, but it can be done.
You need numbers, organization, situational awareness, and DPS. But if you are so sure it cannot be done, you have already failed.
@VaranisArano Meteor cant stop them, negate is stationary. Either you are trolling hard which is most likely the case or you are fighting against potatoes.
Sure, I totally didn't watch my guild and PUGs pull apart and kill an ball group guild we know runs multiple Earthgore sets on Tuesday in Vivec. I mean, I'm not claiming I was great. I died several times to their destro ultis, then came back out to fight and eventually win. But I've seen it done. I've helped do it.
If you choose not to believe me, that's fine. Not my problem. But if that's the case, I'll wish you the best against ball groups and we're done here.
@VaranisArano Why would anyone believe you, you have given no evidence to back your claims.
What do you want, video? Signed and notarized affidavits from guildies?
Yeah, we're done here. Sorry, I'll leave you to your complaining.
Sky is totally pink, because i said so.Edited by techprince on February 18, 2018 3:00AM4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »
Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
@VaranisArano Keep your bs to your self. If you have nothing constructive to add then just stop posting.
Try getting organized and looking for ranged skills to use against ball groups. Use CCs to lock down their tail and pull them apart. Don't stand in the way when they turn on you with the inevitable destro ulti pain train. You've got to exhaust the earthgore procs before you can kill them, but it can be done.
You need numbers, organization, situational awareness, and DPS. But if you are so sure it cannot be done, you have already failed.
@VaranisArano Meteor cant stop them, negate is stationary. Either you are trolling hard which is most likely the case or you are fighting against potatoes.
Sure, I totally didn't watch my guild and PUGs pull apart and kill an ball group guild we know runs multiple Earthgore sets on Tuesday in Vivec. I mean, I'm not claiming I was great. I died several times to their destro ultis, then came back out to fight and eventually win. But I've seen it done. I've helped do it.
If you choose not to believe me, that's fine. Not my problem. But if that's the case, I'll wish you the best against ball groups and we're done here.
@VaranisArano Why would anyone believe you, you have given no evidence to back your claims.
What do you want, video? Signed and notarized affidavits from guildies?
Yeah, we're done here. Sorry, I'll leave you to your complaining.
Sky is totally pink, because i said so.
If its morning or dusk with the right atmospheric conditions...actually it is. Thanks for the laugh, techprince, I needed that.1 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »techprince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »
Enjoy failing to counter ball groups from range then. I'm not lying, but I am doing it as part of an organized raid, which might account for some of your and the OP's failures to deal with ball groups.VaranisArano wrote: »I'd tell you how to do it, but that'd be telling guild secrets. Its been done and I've seen it done.
lies.
@VaranisArano Keep your bs to your self. If you have nothing constructive to add then just stop posting.
Try getting organized and looking for ranged skills to use against ball groups. Use CCs to lock down their tail and pull them apart. Don't stand in the way when they turn on you with the inevitable destro ulti pain train. You've got to exhaust the earthgore procs before you can kill them, but it can be done.
You need numbers, organization, situational awareness, and DPS. But if you are so sure it cannot be done, you have already failed.
@VaranisArano Meteor cant stop them, negate is stationary. Either you are trolling hard which is most likely the case or you are fighting against potatoes.
Sure, I totally didn't watch my guild and PUGs pull apart and kill an ball group guild we know runs multiple Earthgore sets on Tuesday in Vivec. I mean, I'm not claiming I was great. I died several times to their destro ultis, then came back out to fight and eventually win. But I've seen it done. I've helped do it.
If you choose not to believe me, that's fine. Not my problem. But if that's the case, I'll wish you the best against ball groups and we're done here.
@VaranisArano Why would anyone believe you, you have given no evidence to back your claims.
What do you want, video? Signed and notarized affidavits from guildies?
Yeah, we're done here. Sorry, I'll leave you to your complaining.
Sky is totally pink, because i said so.
If its morning or dusk with the right atmospheric conditions...actually it is. Thanks for the laugh, techprince, I needed that.
In summary, you gave us horse shiet with no evidence. Cool story.Edited by techprince on February 18, 2018 3:11AM8 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭I knew bone shield was going to be the next big thing. They may have used it prior but its huge now with them all setting at around 30k hp. 15 k shields all around, and people moan about sorcs...6 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I knew bone shield was going to be the next big thing. They may have used it prior but its huge now with them all setting at around 30k hp. 15 k shields all around, and people moan about sorcs...
Made a PTS thread bout it1 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Use more stamdensPC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp2 -
Vilestride✭✭✭✭✭I don't know what you expect though. It's never going to change large organized groups are never going to have a counter other than other large organized groups and rightfully so. That is the nature of a team based game. Sorry but if you're sitting there waiting for ZoS to implement something that is going to mean 1s and 2s can just smash a button or 2 and blip there goes the organized raid then I hope you're not holding your breath.
meta and whatever ability or sets are strong for whatever patch has nothing to do with it. If you want beat a group like ZS you have to be a group like ZS but better. There is no 2 ways about it. Never was never will be. That's the counter.6 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭Vilestride wrote: »I don't know what you expect though. It's never going to change large organized groups are never going to have a counter other than other large organized groups and rightfully so. That is the nature of a team based game. Sorry but if you're sitting there waiting for ZoS to implement something that is going to mean 1s and 2s can just smash a button or 2 and blip there goes the organized raid then I hope you're not holding your breath.
meta and whatever ability or sets are strong for whatever patch has nothing to do with it. If you want beat a group like ZS you have to be a group like ZS but better. There is no 2 ways about it. Never was never will be. That's the counter.
You just proved the problem when you said you have to be like ZS (a ball group) to beat ZS (a ball group). This is a huge problem in itself but thats for another discussion. Somehow smashing 3 buttons is better than smashing 2 buttons according to you?
As for your "There is no 2 ways about is, Never was never will be"
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4762855/#Comment_4762855We want to encourage more tactical group play where players are encouraged to spread out instead of stacking in a tight ball. We’re still evaluating this aspect of AoE caps, and will make adjustments in the future as necessary
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/386186/monthly-combat-update-december-2017We’re also beginning to look at ways to improve group combat in Cyrodiil, particularly when groups of varying sizes fight each other. Some specific concerns we’ve been looking into include:
Not enough effective options to deal damage to clustered groups from afar
Earthgore is too powerful in group vs group battles
Not enough diversity in Ultimate choice
Large groups can have players take on specialized utility roles, reducing counter-play options against them
We’re still talking about what exactly we’ll be doing, but once we have a better idea of the direction we’re taking, we’ll include it in one of the next combat updates.
Let that sync in your system.Edited by techprince on February 19, 2018 2:43AM6 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've seen some ball groups get broken up a few times this past week. Not top tier ones though; and its still hard. Basically was siege hitting along with bombers at around the same time.0 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭I've seen some ball groups get broken up a few times this past week. Not top tier ones though; and its still hard. Basically was siege hitting along with bombers at around the same time.
Potatoes will still be potatoes even in a group. Problem are the unkillable groups to whom we cannot do much from range.
Edited by techprince on February 19, 2018 2:59AM0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭techprince wrote: »I've seen some ball groups get broken up a few times this past week. Not top tier ones though; and its still hard. Basically was siege hitting along with bombers at around the same time.
Potatoes will still be potatoes even in a group. Problem are the unkillable groups to whom we cannot do much from range.
Those same groups were unstoppable before due to some carries by mechanics and some sets. They probably are propped up a bit still but its a start is all I am saying. Im not so bothered by good groups as much as I am a system that carries the bad ones.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Vilestride wrote: »I don't know what you expect though. It's never going to change large organized groups are never going to have a counter other than other large organized groups and rightfully so. That is the nature of a team based game. Sorry but if you're sitting there waiting for ZoS to implement something that is going to mean 1s and 2s can just smash a button or 2 and blip there goes the organized raid then I hope you're not holding your breath.
meta and whatever ability or sets are strong for whatever patch has nothing to do with it. If you want beat a group like ZS you have to be a group like ZS but better. There is no 2 ways about it. Never was never will be. That's the counter.
This. Pretty much. If you want to help against a Destro Ball Zerg. Best thing you can do is yank out a meatbag catapult or a cold fire treb and help fire support for the people trying to fight them.
I agree one or two people shouldn’t be able to stop a Zerg group THAT big, but you SHOULD be able to at least damage individual group members. Especially if they’re stupid enough to sit around and take that damage. But currently you can’t hurt anyone, and that’s serious BS that needs to be fixed.
5 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I posted about this a long time ago, and even more recently on PTS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/389244/removing-aoe-caps-is-a-good-first-step-but-more-needs-to-be-done/p1
Wrobel himself admitted that large ball groups lack effective ranged counters...
Simply put, i think making siege ignore CP mitigations and maybe a 5% increase in damage for each player hit after the 1st 6 players would do a lot to fix things. siege is actually very effective in No-CP where you don't have CP mitigations and overtuned healing thanks to all the extra CP healing buff stars propping things up. you can still work around it in No-CP, but you just can't stand in it like you cna in CP campaigns.
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak4 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭Vilestride wrote: »I don't know what you expect though. It's never going to change large organized groups are never going to have a counter other than other large organized groups and rightfully so. That is the nature of a team based game. Sorry but if you're sitting there waiting for ZoS to implement something that is going to mean 1s and 2s can just smash a button or 2 and blip there goes the organized raid then I hope you're not holding your breath.
There is a whole range of outcomes in between 1's and 2's blowing them up with a button or 2, and a group of 30 not denting their health meters. I don't think anyone thinks it would be a good thing if 2 people could take them out any more than 30 people doing nothing to them. Let's find somewhere in the middle.2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm not sure what people are expecting. If ZoS comes up with a skill that is effective Vs. large groups from range, then those very same "ball groups" are also going to use the skill and they will use it more effectively because they are coordinated.
People say buff siege. Have you ever seen what happens to inexperienced players when hit by it? It's the equivalent of a thermo nuke. I've rezzed countless PuGs in front of Alessia door to know exactly what will happen if ZoS buffs it more; once again the very people who are supposed to benefit from it are going suffer the most.
The way the game's mechanics work, the way the game's grouping system works, the way cyrodiil's map funnel's players into the same spots, etc., all of the stuff favors "ball groups" and it would take reworking of these systems to make it beneficial and advantageous to spread out.
In the meantime, changing Earth Gore so it doesn't auto-burst heal the exact group members who need it would help, but for now the best things players can do is not potato into organized groups and become VD fodder.2 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭techprince wrote: »I've seen some ball groups get broken up a few times this past week. Not top tier ones though; and its still hard. Basically was siege hitting along with bombers at around the same time.
Potatoes will still be potatoes even in a group. Problem are the unkillable groups to whom we cannot do much from range.
Meteor is the strongest AOE ranged targeted burst.
Negate is the strongest heal inhibitor.
Get a team of 4 - 3 meteors 1 negate - all ranged - couple that with Vicious Death Set and Game Over!
Cheers!
0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nerf earthgorePC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp4 -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭techprince wrote: »We still cannot do much against ball groups from range.
Inevitable Detonation cast time is still too high. They just run out of los/range before casting finishes.
Retreating Manuever spammer removes and makes them immune to slows so lightning ballistas arent useful.
Purge spammer removes negative effects placed on them.
Replenish Shield and Bone Shield spammer constantly shields them.
Overflowing altar is now being used for more healing.
Earthgore still heals like crazy.
Here's a couple ways:
[Redacted]
Oh, there I went almost giving away guild secrets.
Edited by DoctorESO on February 19, 2018 6:22AM1 -
Vilestride✭✭✭✭✭techprince wrote: »Vilestride wrote: »I don't know what you expect though. It's never going to change large organized groups are never going to have a counter other than other large organized groups and rightfully so. That is the nature of a team based game. Sorry but if you're sitting there waiting for ZoS to implement something that is going to mean 1s and 2s can just smash a button or 2 and blip there goes the organized raid then I hope you're not holding your breath.
meta and whatever ability or sets are strong for whatever patch has nothing to do with it. If you want beat a group like ZS you have to be a group like ZS but better. There is no 2 ways about it. Never was never will be. That's the counter.
You just proved the problem when you said you have to be like ZS (a ball group) to beat ZS (a ball group). This is a huge problem in itself but thats for another discussion. Somehow smashing 3 buttons is better than smashing 2 buttons according to you?
See, I already disagree. This is not, fundamentally, a problem. These are problems:Joy_Division wrote: »The way the game's mechanics work, the way the game's grouping system works, the way cyrodiil's map funnel's players into the same spots, etc., all of the stuff favors "ball groups" and it would take reworking of these systems to make it beneficial and advantageous to spread out.
The idea that to beat a group of experienced players employing good teamwork, exemplary communication and co-ordination as well as being each individually competent while also dedicating the effort to not only theory craft but acquire the most effective builds that synergize with, and compliment one another, would require anything less than at least doing some of that, is not a problem.
So when I say to 'be a group like ZS', my words aren't so shallow as to suggest 'just use the current meta and you'll be fine'. Sure that will help, but it's not going to make you un-counter-able. The former will.
Organised is always stronger gameplay. You can quote ZoS's intentions all you want but until the patch drops where large groups of organised players aren't successful, my point is not conceded. There is always a next best strategy and it's always going to be groups like ZS who are the first to implement it to it's full potential.
Edited by Vilestride on February 19, 2018 10:40AM3 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭Vilestride wrote: »techprince wrote: »Vilestride wrote: »I don't know what you expect though. It's never going to change large organized groups are never going to have a counter other than other large organized groups and rightfully so. That is the nature of a team based game. Sorry but if you're sitting there waiting for ZoS to implement something that is going to mean 1s and 2s can just smash a button or 2 and blip there goes the organized raid then I hope you're not holding your breath.
meta and whatever ability or sets are strong for whatever patch has nothing to do with it. If you want beat a group like ZS you have to be a group like ZS but better. There is no 2 ways about it. Never was never will be. That's the counter.
You just proved the problem when you said you have to be like ZS (a ball group) to beat ZS (a ball group). This is a huge problem in itself but thats for another discussion. Somehow smashing 3 buttons is better than smashing 2 buttons according to you?
See, I already disagree. This is not, fundamentally, a problem. These are problems:Joy_Division wrote: »The way the game's mechanics work, the way the game's grouping system works, the way cyrodiil's map funnel's players into the same spots, etc., all of the stuff favors "ball groups" and it would take reworking of these systems to make it beneficial and advantageous to spread out.
The idea that to beat a group of experienced players employing good teamwork, exemplary communication and co-ordination as well as being each individually competent while also dedicating the effort to not only theory craft but acquire the most effective builds that synergize with, and compliment one another, would require anything less than at least doing some of that, is not a problem.
So when I say to 'be a group like ZS', my words aren't so shallow as to suggest 'just use the current meta and you'll be fine'. Sure that will help, but it's not going to make you un-counter-able. The former will.
Organised is always stronger gameplay. You can quote ZoS's intentions all you want but until the patch drops where large groups of organised players aren't successful, my point is not conceded. There is always a next best strategy and it's always going to be groups like ZS who are the first to implement it to it's full potential.
And why do you think its not a problem? are you one of them?
And why do you think the ball group is the only strategy an organized group can play?
I have seen numerous groups playing without this strategy and still succeed so why not use it?
We need sufficient counter play, currently there isnt enough.Edited by techprince on February 19, 2018 11:40AM0
