Elder Bugs Online, could you ZOS pls try to stop this tradition? (every major patch, new bugs)

DieAlteHexe · February 2018

Gythral wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

People used to say never play on patch week.

Ok ok, I made that up.

No - 'cos I've been saying it off and on for nearly 20yrs about a number of well known & not so well known MMOs

Bah! Aced.

beetleklee · February 2018

Apparently the stamina root bug was on the PTS since week 2...

boombazookajd · February 2018

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Sometimes when looking at the patch notes im just wondering if they focus on fixing on the right things...i don't know their processes but it seems at times they focus on fixing some really minor unimportant small stuff while huge issues don't get tackled

They got to that flickering snow on the roofs of Windhelm though!

Rouven · February 2018

Gythral wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

People used to say never play on patch week.

Ok ok, I made that up.

No - 'cos I've been saying it off and on for nearly 20yrs about a number of well known & not so well known MMOs

C'mon. Never play on patch day. That rhymes. But patch week?

Didn't say my stuff is good!

But joking aside for a minute. From my point of view it's totally normal that stuff breaks. As everyone else I'd be happier if it didn't of course. In general I think the "pioneer" days are sort of over. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I reflect about myself I'd probably not go through the hassle of creating a special boot disc anymore to play a game. Perhaps that is why we see an increased unhappiness about bugs.

Haven't finished my coffee yet so I'll leave it at that and add a famous Forrest Gump saying: Bugs happen.

KraziJoe · February 2018

Shhh It happens, If it offends you, move to a MMO that does not have bugs after an expansion. FYI, they don't exist.

Legendzerox · February 2018

There are always gonna be bugs in every major patch due to the way they are done. Its not just Zenimax and ESO either. Its every major game release. Why is that?

Well its due to how many programmers they use because there are millions and millions of lines of code that need to be done and each programmer is handed a section of the completed code they need to complete and when all sections are complete they compile the code. All it takes is one line where a variable isn't called correctly or someone forgot to comment out that particular line or someone calls it twice. There are many things that could go wrong and it always does. So give them a break cause its harder than you realize.

Of course at the same time, they need to fix it cause im getting tired of the weapon swap bug.

jaye63 · February 2018

New code styles on top of old code styles, on top of no one wanting to go thru 60 gigs of code to find the fix.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only way to ask for fixes is to stop spending money on the game. They WILL fix it or they WILL die. It's just that simple. Continuing to pay money for something that's broken only means there is no incentive for them to fix it.

Palidon · February 2018

Many of the issues players are experiencing with this new piece of crap update and DLC were reported to ZOS during the PTS testing. However, ZOS was too interested in the money they would lose by holding off releasing the update and DLC until all issues were fixed. By money I mean the selling of the DLC, Home Storage Chests and Outfit slots.

Case in point

The Home Storage Chests Issue: Several players have lost valuable gear by placing items into the new chests and then deleting the character who originally had the items. This bug was reported during the PTS testing yet ZOS released the DLC and Update anyways without a fix

Weapon Slot delays. Another bug reported during testing yet released live with no fix.

I could go on but it would take to long to list all the problems..............But finally I must mention:

Look at the Offical Tread and other threads in the forums for The Several Year Load Screen Issue that really got worse with the new DLC and update. Their answer we are working on a fix.

ZOS you can call my comments bashing but if the shoe fits you wear it and this shoe fits you.

Lotka · February 2018

But why can't they fix PvP bugs that have existed forever? Honestly.

Balamoor · February 2018

Panomania wrote: »

The only thing thats a constant are the mass waves of entitled, impatient kids screaming that they cant get what they want, right now, no matter what.

Welcome to the Millennial generation...or as I like to call it, Generation Zero.

Asardes · February 2018

^When you pay for a product, and then pay a premium for additional features, you have all the right to be pissed when is not working as advertised. I wouldn't call myself entitled if I contacted the company that sold me a car that has 2s delay in changing gears, has the brake pedal stick at the bottom, or spits the odd nut or screw on the road. That's not entitlement.

Balamoor · February 2018

Asardes wrote: »

^When you pay for a product, and then pay a premium for additional features, you have all the right to be pissed when is not working as advertised. I wouldn't call myself entitled if I contacted the company that sold me a car that has 2s delay in changing gears, has the brake pedal stick at the bottom, or spits the odd nut or screw on the road. That's not entitlement.

Paying for something doesn't mean perfect all the time forever and ever. If a product doesn't meet you standards you vote with your wallet and move to a product that does. You do not spend 12 hours a day crying on a forum that you get to use for free in perpetuity for just buying the game about how "suck" the game is even though you no longer actually play it

There is this place called reality that you really should visit.
But hey what am I talking about? This is the ESO forums where Edgelords from the Angry Army rant just because they won't give Joe yet more Skyrim.

Lotka · February 2018

I play the game, otherwise I wouldn't know of the bugs. It's not entitled that I want *** that's been going on for ages fixed. They've had time. They focus more on PVE bugs. I get they need to come out with new DLC for money. Leave your political BS at the door, please.

Dragonnord · February 2018

How can ZOS release something so bugged?

Lotka · February 2018

Dragonnord wrote: »

How can ZOS release something so bugged?

In PTS it may be fixed and then on the server it's released on, it is *** up. There's also the possibility that they rush a release.

Grabmoore · February 2018

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

You play this game since 3 years and you're still surprised...?

I challenge you guys to name a game thats had a worse track record of releasing content consistently as broken as ZoS.

Neverwinter Online.

That one is easy. They just deleted old content and called it a "refreshing update". Also you had a constant rubberbanding issue in prime time. I can count on one hand, where this happened to me in ESO.

Seriously, it's a huge chunk of software and no software ever released is 100% bug free.

Balamoor · February 2018

Dragonnord wrote: »

How can ZOS release something so bugged?

Clearly you have never worked in software development, or the gaming industry.

Folks act like this is the Pompeii of botched patches......I could list a few dozen FUBARS from Blizzard, SOE, Turbine, Bioware, and NCsoft that were much worse.

crap happens have another cup of joe, visit one of your other fairylands for a few hours and things should be good.

Maulkin · February 2018

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

they might need improving release management,

but this is almost everywhere in software industry, you should rather praise them for fixing urgent issues/exploit immediately!

What the hell... no it absolutely isn’t. You can’t be working is software development if you think that.

Try working as a dev in the Financial sector and releasing software with major bugs that ends up costing people money, especially bugs that have been spotted during UAT. The team leader would be out on his arse before he has time to blink. Try military, medical, logistics, accounting...

Gaming is one of the most forgiving, if not THE most forgiving sector. It’s evident in their practices. Look at ZOS. They release a patch to PTS and do 3 rounds of testing followed by a live release two weeks later, regardless of how many bugs were still around on the last round of testing!

They knowingly release bugs to adhere to pre-determined release schedule. In many industries where software is critical, knowingly releasing code with bugs is sackable offence for people on the (development) management chain.

Gaming devs have it easy. The only part of a game that needs to be watertight is anything to do with payment and account handling which is not gaming technically. The game mechanics can be beset by bugs with little to no repercussion to the dev teams.

They are slackers and they know it.

Rouven · February 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

they might need improving release management,

but this is almost everywhere in software industry, you should rather praise them for fixing urgent issues/exploit immediately!

What the hell... no it absolutely isn’t. You can’t be working is software development if you think that.

Try working as a dev in the Financial sector and releasing software with major bugs that ends up costing people money, especially bugs that have been spotted during UAT. The team leader would be out on his arse before he has time to blink. Try military, medical, logistics, accounting...

Gaming is one of the most forgiving, if not THE most forgiving sector. It’s evident in their practices. Look at ZOS. They release a patch to PTS and do 3 rounds of testing followed by a live release two weeks later, regardless of how many bugs were still around on the last round of testing!

They knowingly release bugs to adhere to pre-determined release schedule. In many industries where software is critical, knowingly releasing code with bugs is sackable offence for people on the (development) management chain.

Gaming devs have it easy. The only part of a game that needs to be watertight is anything to do with payment and account handling which is not gaming technically. The game mechanics can be beset by bugs with little to no repercussion to the dev teams.

They are slackers and they know it.

So what's your opinion on Microsoft OS products?

Lotka · February 2018

The thing that drives me nuts is when I have to create a new build every time a patch comes out because someone didn't like the way the mechanics were working so they buffed or nerfed something. Don't have time for that ***.

Kuramas9tails · February 2018

disintegr8 wrote: »

As the old quote goes “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

The options with software release are:

Software is released on time with several major bugs, some people are happy that they have something new, or something they have been waiting for. Others complain because something they have always used is suddenly broken, or the new features don't work as they should.

Software is delayed and released with some minor bugs: some people are happy because their patience was worth the wait for a 'better' product. Some will complain because they had to wait AND it is still not perfect. Others complain because the initial delivery date was not met, they completed the last DLC a week after release and have had nothing to do (or in this case they had to stop playing because they were so desperate for the storage crates and every inventory slot was maxed out).

Software is release late and with no bugs: stop dreaming and get back to reality (We are still in Kansas Toto, not Oz). One of the very first things a software tester gets taught is that you will never find all of the bugs, no matter how hard or how long you try.

I work in software development and know for a fact that the company does not like delays and the development team (especially QA) do not like releasing software with bugs. Unfortunately, there lies the issue.

@disintegr8 Thank you. I worked with developers before and still do and can say I watch the struggle they go through when going from the Dev stage to Live. They hate it as much as the client because if they could have it done and not worry about it again, they would be happy to do so. Unfortunately that is not the case....ever. It overwhelms me watching them go through lines upon lines of codes. I'll stick to my graphic design job and let them enjoy the bugs.

Lotka · February 2018

When I see fixes to little bugs that don't make a difference in game play and we have bugs that prevent people from being seen or aimed at, that I don't understand. Priorities.. Tbh I can't imagine programming. I can't even spell *** correctly or get my grammar right half the time. Can you imagine having to proof read that *** daily? Ugh.

JackDaniell · February 2018

No matter how overwhelmingly the players say we want lag and bug fixes zeninax ignores us. Eso will not survive on this current model.

Turelus · February 2018

JackDaniell wrote: »

No matter how overwhelmingly the players say we want lag and bug fixes zeninax ignores us. Eso will not survive on this current model.

They can't just fix lag though, there is no magic fix for it in most cases. If they could they would have already and not wasted time on all the things they've done to make small gains against it.

Also ESO will survive how it is, it's actually thriving how it is now. Each update has bugs but most go off without issues this big.

LadyAstrum · February 2018

Turelus wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

No matter how overwhelmingly the players say we want lag and bug fixes zeninax ignores us. Eso will not survive on this current model.

They can't just fix lag though, there is no magic fix for it in most cases. If they could they would have already and not wasted time on all the things they've done to make small gains against it.

Also ESO will survive how it is, it's actually thriving how it is now. Each update has bugs but most go off without issues this big.

I've only been playing for four months and I'm already annoyed at issues this game has, and it seems to me that the devs are always excused and players are supposed to lower their expectations or go play something else. Not good enough. This is the buggiest mmo I've ever played.

Androconium · February 2018

Turelus wrote: »

But... then what would we post about on a Tuesday morning?

Hello,

People announcing that they cancelled their ESO+ subscription on Tuesday morning might be slightly funny.
Your comment isn't. Coming from one of the Stooges, it's actually quite insulting.

Zer0oo · February 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

They are slackers and they know it.

^

Vahrokh · February 2018

altemriel wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

As the old quote goes “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

The options with software release are:

Software is released on time with several major bugs, some people are happy that they have something new, or something they have been waiting for. Others complain because something they have always used is suddenly broken, or the new features don't work as they should.

Software is delayed and released with some minor bugs: some people are happy because their patience was worth the wait for a 'better' product. Some will complain because they had to wait AND it is still not perfect. Others complain because the initial delivery date was not met, they completed the last DLC a week after release and have had nothing to do (or in this case they had to stop playing because they were so desperate for the storage crates and every inventory slot was maxed out).

Software is release late and with no bugs: stop dreaming and get back to reality (We are still in Kansas Toto, not Oz). One of the very first things a software tester gets taught is that you will never find all of the bugs, no matter how hard or how long you try.

I work in software development and know for a fact that the company does not like delays and the development team (especially QA) do not like releasing software with bugs. Unfortunately, there lies the issue.

or another option: if ZOS would just one quarter not release new content, but focus with all their devs on fixing all major bugs and release a free bug fix DLC, everyone will be happy. sure there will be some people crying why not new content, but they will understand soon ,when they start to play

then again back to schedule with releasing new dlc every quarter. if again some new bugs come up, again release a bug fix dlc, or bug fix special patch

ZOS just needs to prioritize bug fixing more, add more high-quality staff to this area and hotfix all major bugs asap!!!

1) ZOS proved they could not stay in business with subscriptions alone and needed to implement tokens, crates etc.
2) They are not going to make a single dollar out of bug fixing.

Therefore

3) They cannot afford fixing major, massively time consuming bugs, if not with a "background", delayed scheduled. So they focus on many minor thingies that still annoy a lot and leave the big stuff for when they have spare time... that is... close to never.

Saturn · February 2018

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

they might need improving release management,

but this is almost everywhere in software industry, you should rather praise them for fixing urgent issues/exploit immediately!

It's not everywhere.. Look at a lot of other MMOs. I promise you they don't consistently break their games and bring back old bugs. The problem with ESO is that in order to release content every quarter they neglect proper QA and outsource a lot of it to players on the PTS (which isn't a very good way of doing), which is likely also why they are looking for more QA'ers (source). Also, they seem adamant about hitting their deadlines, which is why we get so many day one hotfixes and major bugs unsolved. The worst part is that a lot of the bugs are left unfixed for months, sometimes being pushed to the next update. The only things they fix immediately are exploits that benefit players. Even game-breaking bugs are left for the next patch, unless they somehow prevent players from accessing the game or the crown store.

So no, we shouldn't praise them for fixing bugs that shouldn't even have hit Live in the first place.

JamilaRaj · February 2018

Rouven wrote: »

Gythral wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

People used to say never play on patch week.

Ok ok, I made that up.

No - 'cos I've been saying it off and on for nearly 20yrs about a number of well known & not so well known MMOs

C'mon. Never play on patch day. That rhymes. But patch week?

Didn't say my stuff is good!

But joking aside for a minute. From my point of view it's totally normal that stuff breaks.

A lot of bugs are not some heisenbugs; they occur readily, are easy to spot and either were, or were not present on PTS, therefore ZOS either pushed stuff known to be broken to live servers, or version not tested at all, that could and should be considered broken, because every update so far indeed was utter peice of crap.
This is not normal. What is even less normal is the fact that ZOS's ways have not improved since launch.

Rouven wrote: »

As everyone else I'd be happier if it didn't of course. In general I think the "pioneer" days are sort of over. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I reflect about myself I'd probably not go through the hassle of creating a special boot disc anymore to play a game. Perhaps that is why we see an increased unhappiness about bugs.

Haven't finished my coffee yet so I'll leave it at that and add a famous Forrest Gump saying: Bugs happen.