Impoverished male Khajiit after three trips to the outfit station (2E 582, Colorized)

Shanjijri · February 2018

Konstant_Tel_Necris wrote: »

Now you need to buy Bucket Helm and mighty Broom to complete your outfit.
Kudos @Griffe for picture.

This one is fashion.

Mayrael · February 2018

Recremen wrote: »

Honestly the gold cost for outfits is completely shameful. You had a dozen ways you could have monetized this system but you chose the one that screws over players the most? Absolutely shameful. Should have just monetized the outfit slots and the motifs instead of trying this "outfit change token" nonsense. Now you're just adding another burden to the players who have up to this point been most engaged in the content. You shouldn't need to go grind gold or pay real-life money every time you want to wear something blue or switch your shoulderpads. Players should be able to enjoy the game and monetization should facilitate that, not add artificial barriers. Get your heads out of your boot.

What motifs did you used? I realy love your outfit

100% agree with you. There is something we can do. Unsub. Show them that this is not the right way, they will loose more if they won't stop. If we will do nothing, they will come with new ideas. Let your money speak, because its the only thing they are listening to.

zaria · February 2018

think i paid 2-3000 for my most expensive outfit, no i did not go all out with expensive styles but I did not look much at cost either.

Enokariel · February 2018

Not only outfits, even dyeing your armor without changing its look by outfits costs gold - not very much, but my new character to go up the leveling systems now cannot dye his mail.

Morgul667 · February 2018

Nice post !

Dromede · February 2018

Staves that i like cot 3000 each - that's 6k before any other armor, before dyes. It seems minor when you start with Basic styles, but it goes up really, really fast. Multiply by the amount of characters - and you can see it getting out of hand really quick.

In my trading guilds, we expected a big rise in goodies sold. One had brought me 0, the other one under 20k (motifs only) , both guilds are in prime locations and usually perform really, really well. I guess, people just ran out of money buying motifs - the only thing that seems to be selling - and getting new outfits.

Sigh.

LadyAstrum · February 2018

The gold cost is high, but I prefer that over the shameless 1500 crowns for a single outfit slot.

zyk · February 2018

ZOS dropped the ball on this big time.

This shouldn't be an activity they directly profit from. It is an activity that drives players to perform other tasks. Players should be able to obtain new styles and colors and lose themselves in the activity without a ridiculous per-change gold sink attached to it -- which is obviously designed to encourage token and slot sales. This is like charging PVP players for kills.

I think it can be argued that this implementation will earn ZOS less money than one with a reasonable gold sink because a more accessible implementation without usage charges and with more free slots would drive player collection activities which would drive other Crown store convenience purchases.

This is the kind of task that some players can lose themselves in for days, adding incredible value to the product. The current usage charges prohibit this. Instead, ZOS is losing money and good will.

To me, reasonable would be 5-10% of the current prices. Maybe less. The Crown store token for an outfit change should be so irrelevant that it wouldn't exist.

If I sound passionate about this, it's not because I'm into outfits. It's because this implementation is reflective of the overall direction of the game -- which I am sort of passionate about sometimes. I seriously worry about spell crafting. Will there be spell crafting tokens?

Tasear · February 2018

Pennylong wrote: »

I can see that barrel costume coming to the Crown Store soon.

I would buy

CardboardedBox · February 2018

What are some general price ranges? In on ps4 so I can't look yet. Two sets I really wanted to make first were full mazzatun for my argonian, and half orderhour half skinchanger for my imperial.

I feel like mazzatun is going to be priced obscenely , and with orderhour I have no idea....

Nox_Noir · February 2018

It's such a cool system, but the cost is really sucking the fun out of it...
The 1500 crown outfit slot PER CHARACTER is the cherry on top....
shame on you, ZO$

Recremen · February 2018

CardboardedBox wrote: »

What are some general price ranges? In on ps4 so I can't look yet. Two sets I really wanted to make first were full mazzatun for my argonian, and half orderhour half skinchanger for my imperial.

I feel like mazzatun is going to be priced obscenely , and with orderhour I have no idea....

@CardboardedBox

It gets really expensive really fast. I put together a really basic set of leathers last night, even used Argonian basic motif for some of it, yet it still cost 10600 gold with dyes included. I literally can't afford to do that every day and keep up my other activities. It's ***. As for Mazzatun, it's one of the more expensive motifs but I believe it wasn't in the most expensive tier.

peacenote · February 2018

Jarryzzt wrote: »

Should that one not have used this one when talking about the poor Khajiit forced to live out the rest of his existence in a wooden barrel?

To be fair, I think I might see both sides of the issue. Meaning, they wanted to put in a gold sink and disincentivize people from fiddling with their outfits too much (vs. spending crowns on another slot). Problem is, the veterans with millions in the bank won't care, while everyone else will scream and whine...

I don't know. One might hope they eventually take the price down a bit, but this depends on enough users not using the system...

This is the best, most reasonably well-worded attempt to explain why there is a gold cost for changing outfits. And to an extent I think you may be correct.

The issue here is that the gold cost is significant enough to many that it really takes you to Crown Store outfit tokens. And maybe, if you are extremely optimistic, you can see this as a misguided attempt to simplify the game, along with the recent hiding of skill lines and the leveling advisor and all that. "Outfit System" implementation team accidentally colliding with the "Help New Players" implementation team for a less than optimal experience.

Given the math, though, it's hard to give the benefit of the doubt. The gold isn't a nuisance fee to encourage people to buy more slots so much as trying to get people to buy outfit tokens on top of additional slots, which aren't even account bound. There was no need to implement outfit tokens. There already was a Crown Store solution for this. If the system had required style motifs instead of gold, which would have made sense in the ESO world, the answer would have been to purchase mimic stones for the rarer ones when you were lacking. But that would have meant that potentially players could get more bang for their buck. Because it's mix-and-match, you might only need one mimic stone to complete your outfit. You would use only what you needed. A small mimic stone pack costs 600 crowns and has 12 stones, and could probably get you through at least a couple of outfit tweaks. An outfit token costs 400 crowns and will cover one outfit change, regardless of whether you make one little change or apply lots of expensive motifs. If I buy the smallest amount of crowns available, which right now is 750 for $7.99USD, I can only afford one outfit change or one pack of mimic stones. One way, I definitely am getting only one use, while the other I might get up to 12 outfit changes.

Oh, but mimic stones don't apply dye, you say? Well, right... dyeing should have stayed free, as pointed out by many people in PTS and Live. The fact that dyeing your actual armor still is free is a technicality. (Another option would have been to charge actual crowns (not tokens), based on changes. So 10 crowns for 4 altered slots, 20 crowns for all altered slots, something like that. Then you'd at least be paying for what you actually used instead of 400 crowns each time.)

ZOS could have chosen a method that aligned with crafting and the current dye system, rewarded the collection of motifs, wouldn't have required the creation of a new currency, didn't introduce the bizarre charging gold at an unmanned station, and would have had costs based on the economy as opposed to some arbitrary cost assignment. It would have been intuitive, further rewarded subscribers (due to the craft bag holding style material), and encouraged trade and community chatter by breathing life into the trading of style materials and motifs. Honestly in the long run this would have encouraged the purchase of more outfit slots, due to the ease and accessibility of tweaking different looks. And it could still have been a gold sink because people would purchase rarer motifs and style mats to be able to use the system. They also could have introduced an item for one-time application of a motif you don't know which could have been a further gold sink and Crown Store opportunity.

Instead, they chose a clunky implementation that doesn't align with any other in-game concepts where it costs outfit tokens (crowns) to apply motifs learned (which can be obtained through crowns) and additional outfit slots to save them (which can only be obtained with crowns). All to introduce outfit tokens.

So many of us are willing to support this game and have been for a long time. But this really is the equivalent of adding a gold charge (or an optional token) for every time furniture is moved in your home, after paying crowns or gold to get the home and the furniture. We earned the dye achievements and we learned the motifs, but now we need to pay to use them again.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · February 2018

zyk wrote: »

I think it can be argued that this implementation will earn ZOS less money than one with a reasonable gold sink because a more accessible implementation without usage charges and with more free slots would drive player collection activities which would drive other Crown store convenience purchases.

This so much. How many dailies are there that drop Motif pages? How many of those are inside a DLC? And how many more are they going to add in the future? Plus there are Crown Store only Motifs! That might actually have looked more reasonable to people since there was no style stone cost to Outfits! They could have made sales in all sorts of ways if they had been able to restrain themselves here. -_-

Mayrael wrote: »

What motifs did you used? I realy love your outfit

I think Recreman used the housing editor for the barrel.

Recremen wrote: »

CardboardedBox wrote: »

What are some general price ranges? In on ps4 so I can't look yet. Two sets I really wanted to make first were full mazzatun for my argonian, and half orderhour half skinchanger for my imperial.

I feel like mazzatun is going to be priced obscenely , and with orderhour I have no idea....

@CardboardedBox

It gets really expensive really fast. I put together a really basic set of leathers last night, even used Argonian basic motif for some of it, yet it still cost 10600 gold with dyes included. I literally can't afford to do that every day and keep up my other activities. It's ***. As for Mazzatun, it's one of the more expensive motifs but I believe it wasn't in the most expensive tier.

I started to put together my Star-Gazer Outfit and for the pieces that weren't Imperial (Xivkyn belt, Redguard pants, Celestial staff in one weapon slot and IIRC two dye slots) it was 6700 gold. I will note most of that was the staff.

Diminish · February 2018

What I don't appreciate is that the revenue from all these more than obvious cash grabs being put into the game, according to many, is to provide a revenue stream for ZoS to continue supporting this game. In reality people that support these monetization techniques are simply paying ZoS to create more of these monetization techniques in the next update. In layman's terms, you are spending money so that ZoS has the revenue available to implement more things in the game that require you to spend more money on just to support the next set of (monetization) "features". Many of you people are insane if you ask me.

alextemata38 · February 2018

Stop crying

disintegr8 · February 2018

The more demand for something, the higher the cost - and the outfit system (in one way or another) is something a lot of players have wanted for a long time.

As someone who has been diligently learning motifs (only about 5 or 6 not completely known) and saving millions in gold, I am ready to utilize the outfit system if I want to.

I have 18 characters between two accounts and don't plan on spending a cent in the Crown store for the Outfit system.

Iccotak · February 2018

Well...It's not that hard to get gold AND you can plan and play with your outfit before any final decisions.

Recremen · February 2018

Iccotak wrote: »

Well...It's not that hard to get gold AND you can plan and play with your outfit before any final decisions.

The problem is that I can switch stuff up using every other cosmetic system for free after paying the up-front cost to unlock it. I can't just change my outfit every day like that because it will bankrupt me. This outfit system is completely incongruous with the rest of the game.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · February 2018

I have over 30mil gold, I can afford to pay a few thousands to change my outfits.

DoctorESO · February 2018

Recremen wrote: »

Honestly the gold cost for outfits is completely shameful. You had a dozen ways you could have monetized this system but you chose the one that screws over players the most? Absolutely shameful. Should have just monetized the outfit slots and the motifs instead of trying this "outfit change token" nonsense. Now you're just adding another burden to the players who have up to this point been most engaged in the content. You shouldn't need to go grind gold or pay real-life money every time you want to wear something blue or switch your shoulderpads. Players should be able to enjoy the game and monetization should facilitate that, not add artificial barriers. Get your heads out of your boot.

That reminds me of this.

Anyone remember that?

Yolokin_Swagonborn · February 2018

Runefang wrote: »

The only bad thing about the outfit system is that it doesn't also require trait stones. The gold sink is fine.

Go farm mats for 30 minutes, you'll have all the cash you need for your outfit.

@Runefang
Waiting patiently on your guide to making 60k gold per hour farming mats. Note that this should include the time it takes to break down any raw materials, list the items and receive payment. Please link the video in this forums when you are done and tag me in it so I can watch. thanks.

kongkim · February 2018

zyk wrote: »

IMO, ZOS continues to expand the boundaries of their greed because players haven't pushed back and continue to buy.

I think what Men'do describes is disgraceful, but so too are $150 player houses and exclusive items that can only be obtained through gambling crates.

Players need to stiffen up and stop buying in order to send a message to ZOS or the value of their offerings will continue to erode.

Way?? Many people seem to like getting new content

They need to make money, and if you dont like it don't buy it. As long as its not P2W they can do what ever they want and im fine with it.

Recremen · February 2018

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

The only bad thing about the outfit system is that it doesn't also require trait stones. The gold sink is fine.

Go farm mats for 30 minutes, you'll have all the cash you need for your outfit.

@Runefang
Waiting patiently on your guide to making 60k gold per hour farming mats. Note that this should include the time it takes to break down any raw materials, list the items and receive payment. Please link the video in this forums when you are done and tag me in it so I can watch. thanks.

Nevermind the fact that it's only going to work for a handful of people even if it were a successful strategy, which remains a dubious claim. If everyone went out and farmed mats then there'd be nobody buying them. If your solution to a problem only works if the vast majority of people don't actually do it, you have discovered a bad solution.

Runefang · February 2018

Recremen wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

The only bad thing about the outfit system is that it doesn't also require trait stones. The gold sink is fine.

Go farm mats for 30 minutes, you'll have all the cash you need for your outfit.

@Runefang
Waiting patiently on your guide to making 60k gold per hour farming mats. Note that this should include the time it takes to break down any raw materials, list the items and receive payment. Please link the video in this forums when you are done and tag me in it so I can watch. thanks.

Nevermind the fact that it's only going to work for a handful of people even if it were a successful strategy, which remains a dubious claim. If everyone went out and farmed mats then there'd be nobody buying them. If your solution to a problem only works if the vast majority of people don't actually do it, you have discovered a bad solution.

There are lots of other ways to make money, motif prices are up at the moment so go farm some of those.

All of the MMOs I've played, ESO is the easiest to become wealthy in. Guild traders are a big part of that reason.

Recremen · February 2018

Runefang wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

The only bad thing about the outfit system is that it doesn't also require trait stones. The gold sink is fine.

Go farm mats for 30 minutes, you'll have all the cash you need for your outfit.

@Runefang
Waiting patiently on your guide to making 60k gold per hour farming mats. Note that this should include the time it takes to break down any raw materials, list the items and receive payment. Please link the video in this forums when you are done and tag me in it so I can watch. thanks.

Nevermind the fact that it's only going to work for a handful of people even if it were a successful strategy, which remains a dubious claim. If everyone went out and farmed mats then there'd be nobody buying them. If your solution to a problem only works if the vast majority of people don't actually do it, you have discovered a bad solution.

There are lots of other ways to make money, motif prices are up at the moment so go farm some of those.

All of the MMOs I've played, ESO is the easiest to become wealthy in. Guild traders are a big part of that reason.

First, I'm already selling motifs just fine. That's one of the things I use to pay for materials and luxury vendor items. Second, that still runs into the fundamental problem of your suggestion not actually being able to work for everyone. The money you get is necessarily coming from other players. That means those players, while they might now have motifs to use with outfitting, are less able to actually make outfits because they just gave you their gold. I'm hoping you can see how this is a bit of a self-sabotaging system.

zaria · February 2018

Recremen wrote: »

You need an wooden jerkin, clogs and the bucket helm, bosmer should then not be able to attack you, yes Khajiit and Altmer would, same with out of faction races but still you tank 1/3 of Dominion
This one call for an nerf or wooden skirts.

Donari · February 2018

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

The only bad thing about the outfit system is that it doesn't also require trait stones. The gold sink is fine.

Go farm mats for 30 minutes, you'll have all the cash you need for your outfit.

@Runefang
Waiting patiently on your guide to making 60k gold per hour farming mats. Note that this should include the time it takes to break down any raw materials, list the items and receive payment. Please link the video in this forums when you are done and tag me in it so I can watch. thanks.

I would also enjoy knowing how to do this without using a trading guild or spamming Zone with WTS. This game makes it very hard for an on-off player to engage in the market. Or if you know of a trade guild (NA PC) that accepts players who might be inactive for weeks or even months at a time and won't be paying weekly tithes and listing constantly to help them earn their trader bid costs, I'm all ears (eyes? This being text).

I'm actually not being snarky here. I have felt ineffective in ESO due to it being my second game. Which yes is my choice, but in my main game people can list something for trade and come back years later to pick up their coin. Plus they can list items on one global market that millions of buyers frequent. It works very well -- I'm no trading baron, but I can move my items quickly and painlessly and build up my gold. If there's a drama-free ESO guild that would take me so I could super casually list saleable items, I'd be happy to join.

Meanwhile I find it offputting and fun-stopping to have to pay so much gold to change my look. I'm ok with the initial costs of setting up the armor pieces, but dyeing? Really? Despite my casual attendance to the game, I've been subbed non-stop since launch. I'd think that outfit dyeing would fit in the same model as costumes -- free to ESO Plus. Sigh.