Elder Bugs Online, could you ZOS pls try to stop this tradition? (every major patch, new bugs)

LiquidPony · February 2018

I've reported some ~20 bugs on live in the past year or so ... from QoL stuff (on XB1, when you join a group, you automatically get switched to group voice chat ... often cutting you off in mid conversation in the chat you're in, and then every time you port, you end up in some random voice chat), to gamebreaking stuff (can't progress in MoL HM because multiple people DC on Rakkhat pull), to graphical bugs (Spear Shards not rendering on Possessed Mantikora, poison circles not rendering from Rockheaver Trolls, safe circles not rending on Lightning Atronach), and so on and so forth. Often with video evidence, accompanying in-game bug reports, other players chiming in to confirm the bug, etc. In a lot of cases, I suspect the bugs don't get much traction because the raid scene on XB1 is fairly small, and often a lot of the bugs don't matter to PC players who have addons to work around those bugs.

I have never once had a response from anyone at ZOS on any of the bug reports and every single bug I've reported is still in the game. In fact, the only interaction I've had with ZOS in terms of bugs was when MoL was completely broken on XB1 and it took them months to even acknowledge the bug and we went ~6 months without a fix ... for paid DLC content that was completely unplayable.

I love this game and ZOS does a lot of things well (and we wouldn't all be here complaining if there weren't some truth to that) ... but they suck horribly at triaging bugs, communicating their status, and then actually fixing them.

beetleklee · February 2018

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4863619

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

another bug that "roots" Stamina DPS in place when on their bow bar. Never had this bug before the patch. Caused a lot of deaths in dungeons because I couldn't move with WASD.

Makes my character almost unplayable. Why would I want to bring this to a raid where I (and other stam DPS) will be a burden?

notimetocare · February 2018

Oh so many armchair developers...

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/HTisMpC

Nemesis7884 · February 2018

Sometimes when looking at the patch notes im just wondering if they focus on fixing on the right things...i don't know their processes but it seems at times they focus on fixing some really minor unimportant small stuff while huge issues don't get tackled

disintegr8 · February 2018

As the old quote goes “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

The options with software release are:

Software is released on time with several major bugs, some people are happy that they have something new, or something they have been waiting for. Others complain because something they have always used is suddenly broken, or the new features don't work as they should.

Software is delayed and released with some minor bugs: some people are happy because their patience was worth the wait for a 'better' product. Some will complain because they had to wait AND it is still not perfect. Others complain because the initial delivery date was not met, they completed the last DLC a week after release and have had nothing to do (or in this case they had to stop playing because they were so desperate for the storage crates and every inventory slot was maxed out).

Software is release late and with no bugs: stop dreaming and get back to reality (We are still in Kansas Toto, not Oz). One of the very first things a software tester gets taught is that you will never find all of the bugs, no matter how hard or how long you try.

I work in software development and know for a fact that the company does not like delays and the development team (especially QA) do not like releasing software with bugs. Unfortunately, there lies the issue.

altemriel · February 2018

disintegr8 wrote: »

As the old quote goes “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

The options with software release are:

Software is released on time with several major bugs, some people are happy that they have something new, or something they have been waiting for. Others complain because something they have always used is suddenly broken, or the new features don't work as they should.

Software is delayed and released with some minor bugs: some people are happy because their patience was worth the wait for a 'better' product. Some will complain because they had to wait AND it is still not perfect. Others complain because the initial delivery date was not met, they completed the last DLC a week after release and have had nothing to do (or in this case they had to stop playing because they were so desperate for the storage crates and every inventory slot was maxed out).

Software is release late and with no bugs: stop dreaming and get back to reality (We are still in Kansas Toto, not Oz). One of the very first things a software tester gets taught is that you will never find all of the bugs, no matter how hard or how long you try.

I work in software development and know for a fact that the company does not like delays and the development team (especially QA) do not like releasing software with bugs. Unfortunately, there lies the issue.

or another option: if ZOS would just one quarter not release new content, but focus with all their devs on fixing all major bugs and release a free bug fix DLC, everyone will be happy. sure there will be some people crying why not new content, but they will understand soon ,when they start to play

then again back to schedule with releasing new dlc every quarter. if again some new bugs come up, again release a bug fix dlc, or bug fix special patch

ZOS just needs to prioritize bug fixing more, add more high-quality staff to this area and hotfix all major bugs asap!!!

Demycilian · February 2018

Streega wrote: »

Panomania wrote: »

Its definitely a tradition, and in pretty much every game out there: new content comes out, unexpected bugs crop up. The game company tries to fix them, but they are on a time table; if they delay launch of promised new content they're incompetent boobs who dont know how to run a game...corporate moneymen see the huge wave of negative press and suddenly people are looking for jobs. Or....they push the content out as best they can, bugs show up and they scramble to fix them post launch....they are still accused of being incompetent boobs, but people with cognitive awareness know these things happen...so no bad press and people keep their jobs.

Hmmm. Wonder which YOU'D pick? I know my answer.

The only thing thats a constant are the mass waves of entitled, impatient kids screaming that they cant get what they want, right now, no matter what.

Preach, Sister (or Brother)!
@altemriel, you can't even manage your atrocious signature, and you expect ZOS to launch a huge update without any bugs? Really?...

Going by your example House Tertia isnt anywhere near as mature as they would have us believe.

NyassaV · February 2018

Stuff happens... What is truly problematic is that these bugs have been identified before it went live and they were not fixed

disintegr8 · February 2018

altemriel wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

As the old quote goes “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

The options with software release are:

Software is released on time with several major bugs, some people are happy that they have something new, or something they have been waiting for. Others complain because something they have always used is suddenly broken, or the new features don't work as they should.

Software is delayed and released with some minor bugs: some people are happy because their patience was worth the wait for a 'better' product. Some will complain because they had to wait AND it is still not perfect. Others complain because the initial delivery date was not met, they completed the last DLC a week after release and have had nothing to do (or in this case they had to stop playing because they were so desperate for the storage crates and every inventory slot was maxed out).

Software is release late and with no bugs: stop dreaming and get back to reality (We are still in Kansas Toto, not Oz). One of the very first things a software tester gets taught is that you will never find all of the bugs, no matter how hard or how long you try.

I work in software development and know for a fact that the company does not like delays and the development team (especially QA) do not like releasing software with bugs. Unfortunately, there lies the issue.

or another option: if ZOS would just one quarter not release new content, but focus with all their devs on fixing all major bugs and release a free bug fix DLC, everyone will be happy. sure there will be some people crying why not new content, but they will understand soon ,when they start to play

then again back to schedule with releasing new dlc every quarter. if again some new bugs come up, again release a bug fix dlc, or bug fix special patch

ZOS just needs to prioritize bug fixing more, add more high-quality staff to this area and hotfix all major bugs asap!!!

Unfortunately, bug fixes don't bring in additional money, delays cost money and additional staff cost money. It takes a lot to convince a software company to accept a 'Maintenance cycle' as it hurts their bottom line.

Even if it benefits them in the long run, bean counters are looking at the current and next quarter figures, they often have trouble seeing the 'big picture'.

Moloch1514 · February 2018

Marketing dictates what the devs can and cant do. When they hired the lady from SWTOR to run cash shop, everything changed with ZOS.

The storage coffer bug that causes loss of items is inexcusable though, especially with it posted in the official PTS Housing Storage Bug Report thread that ZOS created.

Nemesis7884 · February 2018

Hollery wrote: »

Stuff happens... What is truly problematic is that these bugs have been identified before it went live and they were not fixed

what is truly problematic is that you always need to pray to the gods that any kind of bug affects a lot of people - because in my live experience - if it only affects you - even when you have paid hundreds of dollars for the service - you will get ZERO help... look at my costume bug - still there, received absolutly 0 help - forum sent me to in game support that sent me to the forum and then both just stopped replying...it is really shameful

altemriel · February 2018

disintegr8 wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

As the old quote goes “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

The options with software release are:

Software is released on time with several major bugs, some people are happy that they have something new, or something they have been waiting for. Others complain because something they have always used is suddenly broken, or the new features don't work as they should.

Software is delayed and released with some minor bugs: some people are happy because their patience was worth the wait for a 'better' product. Some will complain because they had to wait AND it is still not perfect. Others complain because the initial delivery date was not met, they completed the last DLC a week after release and have had nothing to do (or in this case they had to stop playing because they were so desperate for the storage crates and every inventory slot was maxed out).

Software is release late and with no bugs: stop dreaming and get back to reality (We are still in Kansas Toto, not Oz). One of the very first things a software tester gets taught is that you will never find all of the bugs, no matter how hard or how long you try.

I work in software development and know for a fact that the company does not like delays and the development team (especially QA) do not like releasing software with bugs. Unfortunately, there lies the issue.

or another option: if ZOS would just one quarter not release new content, but focus with all their devs on fixing all major bugs and release a free bug fix DLC, everyone will be happy. sure there will be some people crying why not new content, but they will understand soon ,when they start to play

then again back to schedule with releasing new dlc every quarter. if again some new bugs come up, again release a bug fix dlc, or bug fix special patch

ZOS just needs to prioritize bug fixing more, add more high-quality staff to this area and hotfix all major bugs asap!!!

Unfortunately, bug fixes don't bring in additional money, delays cost money and additional staff cost money. It takes a lot to convince a software company to accept a 'Maintenance cycle' as it hurts their bottom line.

Even if it benefits them in the long run, bean counters are looking at the current and next quarter figures, they often have trouble seeing the 'big picture'.

yes, but the more bugs stay unfixed for longer time, the more new bugs appear, in the long run the less people will play the game. so maybe ZOS should think a bit more about their overal strategy, because this is just ridiculous.

Morgul667 · February 2018

Seriously every update is bugland where bugs are happy as they live long and prosper

This is bad and affects the gaming experience big time.

Never saw that quantity of bugs (post beta) on any other game but that s another discussion. I would simply be happy if updates were working properly

altemriel · February 2018

Morgul667 wrote: »

Seriously every update is bugland where bugs are happy as they live long and prosper

This is bad and affects the gaming experience big time.

Never saw that quantity of bugs (post beta) on any other game but that s another discussion. I would simply be happy if updates were working properly

well I can imagine, that bugs are pretty normal in every game, but the way they are handled in ESO, is really not good. major bugs should be hotfixed within a week or two max

Zbigb4life · February 2018

Well with every single update they prove they care more about your money then their game

Turelus · February 2018

Zbigb4life wrote: »

Well with every single update they prove they care more about your money then their game

Yes, because they've never added new content, QoL changes, fixed bugs, balanced classes for the goal of keeping ESO alive and healthy.

If ZOS only cared about money and not providing a good game it would look very different. There are plenty of these kinds of games out there, ESO for all its flaws and Crown Store shenanigans is not one of them.

altemriel · February 2018

Turelus wrote: »

Zbigb4life wrote: »

Well with every single update they prove they care more about your money then their game

Yes, because they've never added new content, QoL changes, fixed bugs, balanced classes for the goal of keeping ESO alive and healthy.

If ZOS only cared about money and not providing a good game it would look very different. There are plenty of these kinds of games out there, ESO for all its flaws and Crown Store shenanigans is not one of them.

yes, true, it is for sure not, that they would not care about the quality of their game. but bug fixes should be more fast! at least for the major bugs

Turelus · February 2018

altemriel wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Zbigb4life wrote: »

Well with every single update they prove they care more about your money then their game

Yes, because they've never added new content, QoL changes, fixed bugs, balanced classes for the goal of keeping ESO alive and healthy.

If ZOS only cared about money and not providing a good game it would look very different. There are plenty of these kinds of games out there, ESO for all its flaws and Crown Store shenanigans is not one of them.

yes, true, it is for sure not, that they would not care about the quality of their game. but bug fixes should be more fast! at least for the major bugs

Major bugs yes and most often they are. However to each individual every bug is "major".

For example in the Nightblade skill thread I have been going back and forth in someone called that broken skill "game breaking" where's that issue has no impact on anyone not playing a Nightblade. So for them and all Nightblade players it's a major issue effecting their game, for someone else a bit of furniture which has the wrong visuals is their biggest issue.

The issues which are effecting everyone, doing the most damage to the game or stop people actively playing at all are the big issues which will be addressed first.

Dragon Bones was a messy update, no one is denying that. However when things go wrong like they do here ZOS at least step up and work to get things going as best they can. They got the EU server up and running on the night ASAP even though they originally said it could not be until the next morning.

I'm not excusing ZOS from having to fix or be accountable for their bugs and issues, but the forums are full of "fix your game", "hire more staff", "only care about money" posts which don't add anything and are mostly just people venting their frustrations. Often at the front line staff (community team) who have no control over any of what they're being attacked and slammed for.

Also whilst every update does come with some bugs and issues, not every one has been as bad as this, the smooth launches with a few issues are easily ignored when saying every update is a buggy mess which doesn't work fits the rhetoric of the rant thread.

Any way, that's my rambling/rant done. In before "white knight" comments.

DieAlteHexe · February 2018

altemriel wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Zbigb4life wrote: »

Well with every single update they prove they care more about your money then their game

Yes, because they've never added new content, QoL changes, fixed bugs, balanced classes for the goal of keeping ESO alive and healthy.

If ZOS only cared about money and not providing a good game it would look very different. There are plenty of these kinds of games out there, ESO for all its flaws and Crown Store shenanigans is not one of them.

yes, true, it is for sure not, that they would not care about the quality of their game. but bug fixes should be more fast! at least for the major bugs

Have had quite a few coders say to me:

Do you want it fast?

or

Do you want it right?

Pick one.

There's some truth to that and perspective comes in too. When "you" are the customer(player) and a bug is wreaking havoc on your character, it's never likely to be fast enough whereas to the coder with a list of bugs to squash longer than their life expectancy, it's a different view.

This is one reason I have alt-itis. "Insurance" against bugs. Learned that back in the EQ days.

altemriel · February 2018

LOL, so one more:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/395265/character-constantly-getting-frozen-in-dungeons

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/395296/stamblades-getting-stuck-in-place-in-combat-v3-3-5

altemriel · February 2018

and another one, seriously WTH ZOS???? this is not funny at all!!!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/395212/what-the-f-is-wrong-with-bar-swap

ParaNostram · February 2018

Publishers need to stop pocketing all of the money this game makes and instead hire more developers and upgrade the servers. Stop monetizing every single thing in this game if that money isn't going to go towards making the game better.

Zer0oo · February 2018

You can also add:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/395726/something-is-wrong-with-off-balance-resource-return

Bloodystab · February 2018

How to FIX ESO in few steps:

1. Close Crown Store
2. Back to Subscription model
3. People don't pay for buggy game
4. Not enough cash to keep game alive.
5. Close servers
6. ????
7. Profit

Maybe ZOS should add new service into the Crown Store - "Hire 3rd party Developer to Fix BUG".

altemriel · February 2018

Zer0oo wrote: »

You can also add:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/395726/something-is-wrong-with-off-balance-resource-return

nice

maybe ZOS should hire some more developers, or I don`t know how to improve this

weg0 · February 2018

Zer0oo wrote: »

Can we also fix some very old and probably most annoying bugs: lightning staff bugs and invisible group members

At this point it should be quite embarrassing that these bugs are still around.

Don’t forget getting feared through the wall in CoH. Or Garron in WS not coming down off his platform. I mean, c’mon, those should be easy fixes.

JackDaniell · February 2018

ESO's longstanding reputation as a very laggy and buggy game is probably the singular biggest obstacle that holds this game back. Zenimax does not seem interested in producing game that works properly.

Rouven · February 2018

JackDaniell wrote: »

ESO's longstanding reputation as a very laggy and buggy game is probably the singular biggest obstacle that holds this game back. Zenimax does not seem interested in producing game that works properly.

OR (!) you could say they are consistent.

People used to say never play on patch week.

Ok ok, I made that up.

Gythral · February 2018

Rouven wrote: »

People used to say never play on patch week.

Ok ok, I made that up.

No - 'cos I've been saying it off and on for nearly 20yrs about a number of well known & not so well known MMOs

DieAlteHexe · February 2018

Rouven wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

ESO's longstanding reputation as a very laggy and buggy game is probably the singular biggest obstacle that holds this game back. Zenimax does not seem interested in producing game that works properly.

OR (!) you could say they are consistent.

People used to say never play on patch week.

Ok ok, I made that up.

No, you didn't.

That (never play...) has been said for almost 20 years now. And it's sensible. Frustrating but sensible.