what does animation canceling even do

exeeter702 · February 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

It's a bug that ZOS couldn't fix so now it's a feature that we all gotta learn if we don't want to be hated on by the community.

False

Mind enlightening me on why it's false? Not that i'll believe you but at least try

There are countless explanations that i personally have provided over many threads going into great detail.

I dont care to do it again. It is objectively not a bug.

"Objectively' meaning my words are not actually false, we just have differing opinions, okay, good to know.

You called it a bug.

It is not a bug.

Jury's still out on that.

No it isnt

cbaudersub17_ESO · February 2018

Zapzarap wrote: »

Just imagine beeing stuck in templar beem, or something else that takes a longer time... and than you need to block/doge.

Any respectable Templar is going to focus Jesus Beam on you with his three buddies making blocking mute.

hamgatan · February 2018

Zapzarap wrote: »

Also, just a side note: They removed it for a test on a PTS patch like 2-3 years ago. 2 weeks later they put the system back in place because everyone sayed its ***.

That's because everyone was still in the honeymoon stage with anicancelling because it was a marked improvement on the first 6 months of the game of 'animation missing'

red_emu · February 2018

It's so that Nightblades can hit you with 74 poison injections in 0.2 seconds while remaining invisible and indestructible.

Asardes · February 2018

red_emu wrote: »

It's so that Nightblades can hit you with 74 poison injections in 0.2 seconds while remaining invisible and indestructible.

That's actually another feature of the game, namely lag

zyk · February 2018

I do not believe ZOS called animation cancelling a bug. They said [the way players were using] it was not intended. But the underlying mechanic, which is the prioritization system, was very much intended. Animation cancelling is just the name given to using that system in an optimal way.

FearlessOne_2014 · February 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

i've tried it, with blocking, bar-swapping, but i don't see the effect. Even if i cancel an ability, and press the next button, my character stands still for 0.5 sec until it starts going. The only cancel i do well is when i weave a light attack between the abilities.

Ok so since macros are legal in ESO. Use experiment and set up multi-command one button press animation cancel abilities/routines.

Some attacks works others don't. However programming a macro software to take out the human error, is mostly what you need.

Also Animation Cancel is highly impacted by latency. The more you lag, means the less effective Animation Cancelling because.

My advice to you is to get a internet like this....

Then get a MMO mouse like this one.

Which allows you to have all your key shortcuts, at your thumb. There for no need to reach across your keyboard.

Rungar · February 2018

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

i've tried it, with blocking, bar-swapping, but i don't see the effect. Even if i cancel an ability, and press the next button, my character stands still for 0.5 sec until it starts going. The only cancel i do well is when i weave a light attack between the abilities.

Ok so since macros are legal in ESO. Use experiment and set up multi-command one button press animation cancel abilities/routines.

Some attacks works others don't. However programming a macro software to take out the human error, is mostly what you need.

Also Animation Cancel is highly impacted by latency. The more you lag, means the less effective Animation Cancelling because.

My advice to you is to get a internet like this....

Then get a MMO mouse like this one.

Which allows you to have all your key shortcuts, at your thumb. There for no need to reach across your keyboard.

when they say potato what they really mean is that you don't have this.

FearlessOne_2014 · February 2018

.....

Rungar wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

i've tried it, with blocking, bar-swapping, but i don't see the effect. Even if i cancel an ability, and press the next button, my character stands still for 0.5 sec until it starts going. The only cancel i do well is when i weave a light attack between the abilities.

Ok so since macros are legal in ESO. Use experiment and set up multi-command one button press animation cancel abilities/routines.

Some attacks works others don't. However programming a macro software to take out the human error, is mostly what you need.

Also Animation Cancel is highly impacted by latency. The more you lag, means the less effective Animation Cancelling because.

My advice to you is to get a internet like this....

Then get a MMO mouse like this one.

Which allows you to have all your key shortcuts, at your thumb. There for no need to reach across your keyboard.

when they say potato what they really mean is that you don't have this.

Nonsense I know many players who are competitive that don't have all that. I also know a bunch of players that do have all that, but still is nowhere near competitive.

However having those will grant you more precision. As much better latency and a boat load of keybindings at your thumb.

Datthaw · February 2018

I'm pretty sure they admitted is wasn't supposed to be there but combat won't work without it because of skill priority. Think of how *** combat would be if you couldn't block cancel to protect yourself from that dbos or dragon leap.

red_emu · February 2018

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

i've tried it, with blocking, bar-swapping, but i don't see the effect. Even if i cancel an ability, and press the next button, my character stands still for 0.5 sec until it starts going. The only cancel i do well is when i weave a light attack between the abilities.

Ok so since macros are legal in ESO. Use experiment and set up multi-command one button press animation cancel abilities/routines.

Some attacks works others don't. However programming a macro software to take out the human error, is mostly what you need.

Also Animation Cancel is highly impacted by latency. The more you lag, means the less effective Animation Cancelling because.

My advice to you is to get a internet like this....

Then get a MMO mouse like this one.

Which allows you to have all your key shortcuts, at your thumb. There for no need to reach across your keyboard.

Boke! Dust your desk my friend! This is a bio hazard right there!

cbaudersub17_ESO · February 2018

Datthaw wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they admitted is wasn't supposed to be there but combat won't work without it because of skill priority. Think of how *** combat would be if you couldn't block cancel to protect yourself from that dbos or dragon leap.

It would be Dark Souls online. For those that have been around, think about how much more punishing the original veteran ranks would have been especially if you favored stamina-type weapons. Looking for ways to improve your damage helped (taking advantage of the offensive-type canceling was not widely known), but you usually died because you failed to properly counter.

zyk wrote: »

I do not believe ZOS called animation cancelling a bug. They said [the way players were using] it was not intended. But the underlying mechanic, which is the prioritization system, was very much intended. Animation cancelling is just the name given to using that system in an optimal way.

So by definition, it is an exploit? Mute and splitting hairs on how to characterize at this point (talking about characterizing it at the time of widespread discovery), but I recall a similar history. I also recall most people taking issue with offense-type implications, i.e., not seeming congruent with reactive-style combat as goal. Another important point at this time, there were NO cooldowns.

Not sure why others feel the need to revise the history when the reality doesn’t change. It is NOW an officially accepted part of the game and the game has been adjusted in so many ways for it since launch.

Lynnessa · February 2018

exeeter702 wrote: »

Lynnessa wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Its not cheating
Its not an exploit
Its not a bug
Its not an intended system or feature

Seems like I remember when it was sort of suggested by devs that it wasn't originally intended but once they found out about it it was intended. In other words, it was too late to go back and fix it but they wouldn't fix it even if they could, so so there.

Thinking about it always sort of makes me chuckle and ask myself why they don't just remove (cancellable) animations from the game, or disable them in combat, or something (thereby saving resources, maybe reducing lag, and preventing some players' frustration). A truly new player, unless they spend a lot of time outside the game doing research on the game, would have no clue about skill priority or animation cancelling--and before anyone points out that a player should research outside resources, I'd suggest that a truly well-designed game should be self-contained. Also makes me wonder if new content is balanced around animation cancelling rotations--which in my opinion would be BS.

This was never said by the devs, go back and find wrobels comment on youtube. They never said we cant fix it so its here to stay. I know the post is long but my previous post explains exactly why you can not remove cancellable animations.

I'm not the only one who seems to remember it, but I'll take your word for it.

Also there is no such thing as skill priority in this game. That is another massive misconception.

Some things stop the animations of other things. Skill priority, or whatever else you want to call it, it is a thing.

And lastly, anyone, as was the case with myself personally, who understands how often you are allowed to cast abilities and makes sure you are casting as often as you can, and realizes you can block an incoming attack no matter what you are doing will inadvertently learn about what many call animation canceling. It is not nearly asbl deep obtuse and complex as most would like to believe. Light attack weaving as well was something you quickly realize is a thing just by playing beyond a casual level.

Seems you and I disagree about a few things. Light attack weaving is not something I can see any player learning just from the game itself. Maybe from videos, or from another player telling them how to do it, or from an addon, but the game itself does not make it obvious. Same with any of the other offensive/dps uses of animation cancelling. In my opinion, since these things are not obvious within the game, the game content should not be designed around them.

LiquidPony · February 2018

hamgatan wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

People who whine and complain about animation canceling did not arrive at that conclusion via rational thought process. They got there because they were butthurt about getting wrecked in PvP and need something to blame.

The anti-animation canceling crowd is driven by pure stupid emotion.

What an utter load of crap.

Ani cancelling has been toxic af in cyro since 2014. Removing from the game is a blessing as there will no longer be a distinct advantage for macro slicing cheats.

You're going to have more tears from trial runners whining they lose 2k dps.. Woo... BFD. I'd rather skill was returned to cyro than some hardcore trialler whining over 2k deeps on a trial they already melt with ease.

Nah. You just need to git gud man.

Don't blame the game's mechanics. I know senior citizens and junior high school students who animation cancel just fine. A monkey could do it.

Macro slicing. Guffaw. If it weren't that, you'd be blaming Cheat Engine, or lag, or maybe your controller/mouse/keyboard is broken.

Kingslayer513 · February 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

i've tried it, with blocking, bar-swapping, but i don't see the effect. Even if i cancel an ability, and press the next button, my character stands still for 0.5 sec until it starts going. The only cancel i do well is when i weave a light attack between the abilities.

I think one of the most obvious AC is to activate Wall of Elements then bar swap. Once you do it right, your character will barely show anything, just dishing out a carpet of lightning while your staff is spinning. It's a good way to see the potential of skilled AC.

Admittedly, some skills work better with AC than others.

Dymence · February 2018

hamgatan wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

People who whine and complain about animation canceling did not arrive at that conclusion via rational thought process. They got there because they were butthurt about getting wrecked in PvP and need something to blame.

The anti-animation canceling crowd is driven by pure stupid emotion.

What an utter load of crap.

Ani cancelling has been toxic af in cyro since 2014. Removing from the game is a blessing as there will no longer be a distinct advantage for macro slicing cheats.

You're going to have more tears from trial runners whining they lose 2k dps.. Woo... BFD. I'd rather skill was returned to cyro than some hardcore trialler whining over 2k deeps on a trial they already melt with ease.

You are the prime example of the very post you decided to reply to.

Macro slicing has nothing to do with animation cancelling.

exeeter702 · February 2018

Lynnessa wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Lynnessa wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Its not cheating
Its not an exploit
Its not a bug
Its not an intended system or feature

Seems like I remember when it was sort of suggested by devs that it wasn't originally intended but once they found out about it it was intended. In other words, it was too late to go back and fix it but they wouldn't fix it even if they could, so so there.

Thinking about it always sort of makes me chuckle and ask myself why they don't just remove (cancellable) animations from the game, or disable them in combat, or something (thereby saving resources, maybe reducing lag, and preventing some players' frustration). A truly new player, unless they spend a lot of time outside the game doing research on the game, would have no clue about skill priority or animation cancelling--and before anyone points out that a player should research outside resources, I'd suggest that a truly well-designed game should be self-contained. Also makes me wonder if new content is balanced around animation cancelling rotations--which in my opinion would be BS.

This was never said by the devs, go back and find wrobels comment on youtube. They never said we cant fix it so its here to stay. I know the post is long but my previous post explains exactly why you can not remove cancellable animations.

I'm not the only one who seems to remember it, but I'll take your word for it.

Also there is no such thing as skill priority in this game. That is another massive misconception.

Some things stop the animations of other things. Skill priority, or whatever else you want to call it, it is a thing.

And lastly, anyone, as was the case with myself personally, who understands how often you are allowed to cast abilities and makes sure you are casting as often as you can, and realizes you can block an incoming attack no matter what you are doing will inadvertently learn about what many call animation canceling. It is not nearly asbl deep obtuse and complex as most would like to believe. Light attack weaving as well was something you quickly realize is a thing just by playing beyond a casual level.

Seems you and I disagree about a few things. Light attack weaving is not something I can see any player learning just from the game itself. Maybe from videos, or from another player telling them how to do it, or from an addon, but the game itself does not make it obvious. Same with any of the other offensive/dps uses of animation cancelling. In my opinion, since these things are not obvious within the game, the game content should not be designed around them.

I want to stress that when i say skill priority, i am reffering to abilities that obey the GCD. There is no priority system in place that puts certain abilities at a higher priority than others, this does not exist in this game. Actions like block, roll dodge, bash, bar swap are not abilities. They operate outside the GCD for immediacy. There is no "priority" happening. This is creeping into semantics so id rather not elaborate further.

And for what its worth, systems such as GCDs, cast and channel bars, and weaving white attacks inbetween abilities should be visualized and demonstrated more clearly in game, that is a criticism i have long held on the devs, a flaw believe was created solely becuase they wanted to distance themselves from the all the post wow style mmos. Cast times and global coold downs are not attractive buzzwords when you are pitching your mmo as action oriented and whatnot. This is an entirely seperate discussion however. The fact of the matter is that these systems DO exist in the game and were implemented intentionally to govern combat and content will be desgined around them.

hamgatan · February 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

Nah. You just need to git gud man.

Don't blame the game's mechanics. I know senior citizens and junior high school students who animation cancel just fine. A monkey could do it.

Macro slicing. Guffaw. If it weren't that, you'd be blaming Cheat Engine, or lag, or maybe your controller/mouse/keyboard is broken.

i can ani cancel fine, i just dont automate the process.

ive got video of said macro slicers. there's tons of evidence all over youtube. 5-6 abilities cast in less than two seconds. unfortunately every time i post something an overzealous Nazimax minion deletes the content because they love to bury their head in the sand - for the greater good. *rolls eyes*

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

You are the prime example of the very post you decided to reply to.

Macro slicing has nothing to do with animation cancelling.

it has everything to do with it.

heres an example, you know that a particular animation cancels after 0.x second right, so lets say the charge on WB you could cancel the ani at the bottom edge of the swing, so you would open your macro editor and hotlink your trigger for WB (lets say 3 key), so macro would be down, then up on the 3 key (knowing full well WB had a 1 second cast time), and then setting a timer for 0.5 second to then cancel with a LA. Meanwhile you just hit a WB AND a LA in half the time a normal wb cast would take, and you can continue to program that macro with whatever other abilities can be cancelled out.

..and thats just straight abilities - what about proctards? all those nb weiners that were macro'ing viper/eternal hunt/veli procs from a stealthed hit. oops no more dodgeroll cancel! (cloak, HA, dodgeroll cancel, viper proc, EH proc, veli proc, incap)

taking AniCancelling out wont stop macro's, but it will severely impair their ability to automate processes and level the playing field.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Also Animation Cancel is highly impacted by latency. The more you lag, means the less effective Animation Cancelling because.

My advice to you is to get a internet like this....

lol. if only..

i could have a gigabit pipe (one day.. because straya) to my house but it doesn't resolve cross Pacific latency at all. Gigabit from point to point is no better than xDSL when you're still restricted by the same submarine layer transport latency as everyone else.. and for us that's around 220ms.

pretty much the whole of australia is 0.4-0.5 seconds lagged behind US players. its a geographical issue - having gigabit pipes wont help solve anything for us. we've just learned to live with it.. even though we know its not a level playing field

klowdy1 · February 2018

The devs intended for players to prioritize defense over damage by blocking or rolling as soon as they need to. I doubt they wanted the twitchy looking combat of attack weaving. If they wanted that to happen, they would have made animations shorter, so their game didn't look ridiculous during combat. Animation cancelling was intended, but not what we have now.

Dymence · February 2018

hamgatan wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

You are the prime example of the very post you decided to reply to.

Macro slicing has nothing to do with animation cancelling.

it has everything to do with it.

heres an example, you know that a particular animation cancels after 0.x second right, so lets say the charge on WB you could cancel the ani at the bottom edge of the swing, so you would open your macro editor and hotlink your trigger for WB (lets say 3 key), so macro would be down, then up on the 3 key (knowing full well WB had a 1 second cast time), and then setting a timer for 0.5 second to then cancel with a LA. Meanwhile you just hit a WB AND a LA in half the time a normal wb cast would take, and you can continue to program that macro with whatever other abilities can be cancelled out.

..and thats just straight abilities - what about proctards? all those nb weiners that were macro'ing viper/eternal hunt/veli procs from a stealthed hit. oops no more dodgeroll cancel! (cloak, HA, dodgeroll cancel, viper proc, EH proc, veli proc, incap)

taking AniCancelling out wont stop macro's, but it will severely impair their ability to automate processes and level the playing field.

That's.... not what a macroslice is. And it doesn't look like you know how macros would work in this game, either. Please educate yourself on the game mechanics.

Not to mention that macros are absolutely not feasible for use as soon as you enter an environment with a lot of frame/ping lag. AKA any PVE trial or PVP.

Also, you quoted the wrong person.

Izaki · February 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

well the obvious solution is to make all animations one second long, with the current one second invisible global cooldown on abilities. This way, even if you cancel your ongoing animation, your character will sit still 0.5 seconds until next ability.

What if during that 1.5 seconds (the animation time that you can't cancel and the delay that you propose to include) you get a Frag coming right at you and you can't block? Or what if you need to quickly bar swap in order to cast your healing ability? You wouldn't be able to do that and combat would feel completely unresponsive. That's the whole reason animation canceling even exists.

disintegr8 · February 2018

Animation canceling kills people faster.... simple.
Especially if they are in Australia on console.

exeeter702 · February 2018

hamgatan wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Nah. You just need to git gud man.

Don't blame the game's mechanics. I know senior citizens and junior high school students who animation cancel just fine. A monkey could do it.

Macro slicing. Guffaw. If it weren't that, you'd be blaming Cheat Engine, or lag, or maybe your controller/mouse/keyboard is broken.

i can ani cancel fine, i just dont automate the process.

ive got video of said macro slicers. there's tons of evidence all over youtube. 5-6 abilities cast in less than two seconds. unfortunately every time i post something an overzealous Nazimax minion deletes the content because they love to bury their head in the sand - for the greater good. *rolls eyes*

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

You are the prime example of the very post you decided to reply to.

Macro slicing has nothing to do with animation cancelling.

it has everything to do with it.

heres an example, you know that a particular animation cancels after 0.x second right, so lets say the charge on WB you could cancel the ani at the bottom edge of the swing, so you would open your macro editor and hotlink your trigger for WB (lets say 3 key), so macro would be down, then up on the 3 key (knowing full well WB had a 1 second cast time), and then setting a timer for 0.5 second to then cancel with a LA. Meanwhile you just hit a WB AND a LA in half the time a normal wb cast would take, and you can continue to program that macro with whatever other abilities can be cancelled out.

..and thats just straight abilities - what about proctards? all those nb weiners that were macro'ing viper/eternal hunt/veli procs from a stealthed hit. oops no more dodgeroll cancel! (cloak, HA, dodgeroll cancel, viper proc, EH proc, veli proc, incap)

taking AniCancelling out wont stop macro's, but it will severely impair their ability to automate processes and level the playing field.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Also Animation Cancel is highly impacted by latency. The more you lag, means the less effective Animation Cancelling because.

My advice to you is to get a internet like this....

lol. if only..

i could have a gigabit pipe (one day.. because straya) to my house but it doesn't resolve cross Pacific latency at all. Gigabit from point to point is no better than xDSL when you're still restricted by the same submarine layer transport latency as everyone else.. and for us that's around 220ms.

pretty much the whole of australia is 0.4-0.5 seconds lagged behind US players. its a geographical issue - having gigabit pipes wont help solve anything for us. we've just learned to live with it.. even though we know its not a level playing field

"Macro slice" is facetiously named, it has nothing to do with macros my dude......

hamgatan · February 2018

Dymence wrote: »

That's.... not what a macroslice is. And it doesn't look like you know how macros would work in this game, either. Please educate yourself on the game mechanics.

Not to mention that macros are absolutely not feasible for use as soon as you enter an environment with a lot of frame/ping lag. AKA any PVE trial or PVP.

Also, you quoted the wrong person.

oh are you referring to deliberately exploiting the broken crit rush mechanic?

wouldn't know. i dont cheat.

Dymence · February 2018

hamgatan wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

That's.... not what a macroslice is. And it doesn't look like you know how macros would work in this game, either. Please educate yourself on the game mechanics.

Not to mention that macros are absolutely not feasible for use as soon as you enter an environment with a lot of frame/ping lag. AKA any PVE trial or PVP.

Also, you quoted the wrong person.

oh are you referring to deliberately exploiting the broken crit rush mechanic?

wouldn't know. i dont cheat.

It's not limited to crit rush, and there is no way of deliberately doing it that I know of.

Izaki · February 2018

coop500 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

It's a bug that ZOS couldn't fix so now it's a feature that we all gotta learn if we don't want to be hated on by the community.

False

Mind enlightening me on why it's false? Not that i'll believe you but at least try

There are countless explanations that i personally have provided over many threads going into great detail.

I dont care to do it again. It is objectively not a bug.

"Objectively' meaning my words are not actually false, we just have differing opinions, okay, good to know.

@coop500

Objectively, your words are totally false. Let me explain.

Without animation canceling (which is a pretty stupid name for it, since its not what it is at all), this game's combat system wouldn't even exist. It was never a bug. What wasn't initially intended is for people to use this feature in order to increase your DPS (by performing light or heavy attacks or bash in between abilities and overlapping their separate cooldowns). The devs have since embraced using "animation canceling" to increase your damage output.

So objectively, your statement which is, I quote, "Its a bug that ZOS couldn't fix so now it's a feature [...]", is entirely false.

And back to what I was saying about the name for this feature. Animation canceling isn't actually animation canceling, it is rather the act of overlapping the different cooldowns on the game's most basic combat actions, namely light and heavy attacks, abilities, block, bash and roll dodge (listed in their order of priorities from lowest to highest). The only thing that gets "cancelled" is the gesture that your character does while performing the ability, the actual animation of that given ability still happens. And even then, that gesture isn't even "cancelled" it is overlapped and therefore overridden by the animation of an action of higher priority (such as block, bash or roll dodge).

hamgatan · February 2018

exeeter702 wrote: »

"Macro slice" is facetiously named, it has nothing to do with macros my dude......

yeah i got confused there with the terminology. oops

Dymence wrote: »

It's not limited to crit rush, and there is no way of deliberately doing it that I know of.

sure there is. aim at a blade of grass on a 1 degree incline. that'll stick it!

swippy · February 2018

i'm almost sick of the term "animation canceling" but this has been a very enlightening thread. i've never doled out so many Insightfuls.

(and who would have guessed i've been doing all this cool-guy stuff for like a year?)

cbaudersub17_ESO · February 2018

.
@hamgatan: Please take care with your quoting. In your post #79. it should be:

Dymence wrote: »

You are the prime example of the very post you decided to reply to.

Macro slicing has nothing to do with animation cancelling.

(see post #77). And thanks @Dymence for pointing that out as well (see post #81).

Koensol · February 2018

Gotta love all the saltlords in this thread blaming their dps failure on animation cancelling and then falsely calling it a bug. You all clearly have no idea what a bug is.