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Dragon Bones comes out in < 2 weeks and DKs are still a complete mess

  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
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    Liam12548 wrote: »
    Hate to say it, but these nerf are mainly hitting the pve aspect of dks. In pvp, they have arguably been the strongest class for months. When you face a class that can block 100% of the time, has no bashable skills, still does damage wit sword and board front bar in heavy armor, has the strongest single target PRESSURE available, has a FREE TO CAST hard hitting abillity that HEALS, there isn't much counterplay available. I remember when the first pts notes came out this cycle, and dks were ECSTATIC about the fact that they would be able to power lash 5x in a row. How can you even, in good conscience, defend something like that? You can't. If you try to from a pvp perspective, you're lying to yourself and you also likely main the class.

    The shafting was a long time coming.

    Lol mDK the strongest pvp spec?

    Block 100% Lol, sure. Every other patch have had some sort of block nerfs.

    Lash hard hitting? Lol, maybe if you were in all divines gankblade spec or mostly DPS focused specs. Embers heal better but it is also shafted hard even when it is hard to land due to short range nature. If that DK hits you hard, real hard, then it means they are in light armor and they can get shredded just as hard as it hits.

    Power lash 5 times in a row thing was called out by mDKs also.

    MDK heavy armor, eh? Pretty sure you can run them out of resources faster unless your build is all about light attack.
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • SirDopey
    SirDopey
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    From previous patch experience I think its safe to say there will be no significant changes made prior to release. A few more bug fixes but that will be the extent of it =D
    NA PC | AD
    xx Doc Holliday xx
  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
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    DKs were a mess the moment 1.6 patch hit.

    ZoS taking away questionable mechanics like perma off balance and undogeable instant cast skills just reveals how overnerfed the class was from the cries of people who stood in banners and loosed snipes at Reflective Scales back at Launch.

    I, myself, remember when I did that lolol. But I did not make a single post then, since I was also not registered on the forums till Morrowind. Good old days of me basically attacking myself with my own projectiles and then thought the DK was the most OP thing in the world. Good ole days.
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • Stamden
    Stamden
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    DKs were a mess the moment 1.6 patch hit.

    ZoS taking away questionable mechanics like perma off balance and undogeable instant cast skills just reveals how overnerfed the class was from the cries of people who stood in banners and loosed snipes at Reflective Scales back at Launch.

    It was the NBs complaining the most, and look where it got them. Now they are the best PvP and PvE class in the game.

    Maybe we should start QQing and in like 3 years our class won't be garbage.
    PC NA

    ~Currently taking a break from the game until my DK can become something more than just a crafter~
  • Sabbathius
    Sabbathius
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    Who says they ever planned to make DKs playable this patch? They specifically said that class balancing patch will be coming later, most likely with the summer expansion.

    I'm forcing myself to be positive. I'm sure they will add a new weapon line (1H+Focus), allowing Magicka builds to actually use a second 5-piece set bonus. And they will add Spellcrafting. And with that, the game will need a complete rebalance anyway, so they'll do one massive comprehensive, proper class rebalance that will make every class and every build equally desirable in all areas of the game. And we'll once again see Nightblade tanks, and Sorcerer healers running around, not just DK tanks and Templar healers. Right, guys? Riiiight? That's totally what's going to happen.
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    I love how nobody even cares about sDK. Hell, nobody even plays it.
  • huschdeguddzje
    huschdeguddzje
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    I love how nobody even cares about sDK. Hell, nobody even plays it.

    Lol what? It's the top of the dps charts
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    I love how nobody even cares about sDK. Hell, nobody even plays it.

    A PvE post. StamDK has no issue in that. But yeah, for PvP there is no reason not to play warden.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • DoctorESO
    DoctorESO
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    .
    Edited by DoctorESO on September 23, 2018 1:54AM
  • Onefrkncrzypope
    Onefrkncrzypope
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    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Never forget that all the town guards are still dragonknights. :D

    Uh they are templar dragon Sorc nights actually
    If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling
  • Stamden
    Stamden
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    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Never forget that all the town guards are still dragonknights. :D

    Wait..

    These nerfs and the new outfit system..

    Guys I figured it all out. They want us to all start roleplaying as guards.
    PC NA

    ~Currently taking a break from the game until my DK can become something more than just a crafter~
  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
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    Stamden wrote: »
    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Never forget that all the town guards are still dragonknights. :D

    Wait..

    These nerfs and the new outfit system..

    Guys I figured it all out. They want us to all start roleplaying as guards.

    At least their chains work well as it goes through things. Ours don't. Their talons and petrify also have better range. They just want us to be enemy npc DKs that drop standard. But then, boss versions of them hit harder than us also...
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
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    Jamini wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Stamden wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Wait who even plays mDKs on live for serious PVE content anymore? They have been kinda useless ever since stam started outperforming magika.

    That kind of mentality is a reason why bow builds for pve will never be buffed or reworked. Just as you put it that "stam took over melee" mag has ranged domimance. Why can both have both?

    Stam being best melee, and mag being best ranged is fine, until you consider the melee-only mags, like DKs.

    And if mag dks become viable in trials, it would only be fair if bow builds are viable too.
    PS. Im all for both
    Edit, mag vs melee

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/371415283778322444/408437607253409792/Screenshot_20180130_192449.png

    They can be. If you know how.

    Well, 1, that is a 3m, therefore sustain isnt mucb of an issue, 2, mag dpses can pull more on a 3M while being more surviable self buffed
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    I love how nobody even cares about sDK. Hell, nobody even plays it.

    A PvE post. StamDK has no issue in that. But yeah, for PvP there is no reason not to play warden.

    really hoping for this dumb heavy attack meta to end so pve players can stop calling nerfs to my main.
  • Vosital
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    so these changes are just going to go live? wtf zenimax
  • NuarBlack
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    Jamini wrote: »
    You know, having done some research (with numbers and actually looking up in-game data via addons) I actually owe @Vaoh an apology for bashing him over sorcerers. Recently I've been recording kill-death data in Cyrodiil on various factions and campaigns to get a general idea of what is and is not played in PvP today.

    The results both did and did not surprise me.

    All numbers are rough estimates:

    No-CP Class Breakdown

    NightBlade | 40%
    Templar | 25%
    Sorcerer | 15%
    Dragonknight | 15%
    Warden | 5% (P2W, availability reduces their numbers)

    CP Class Breakdown.

    NightBlade | 30%
    Templar | 25%
    Dragonknight | 20%
    Sorcerer | 15%
    Warden | 10% (Again, availability reduces potential numbers)

    My sample size is still fairly small, but so far my results have been consistent across the last week.

    As far as I can tell, excluding warden due to the paid nature of the class, Sorcerer and DK pretty consistently make up the lower 30-40% of class composition on the field. While NightBlade (likely majority stamina) clearly dominate in numbers. From this data, I hypothesize a few things:

    1. The recent changes to Sorcerer (loss of stun and damage on frags) hurt them far more than I originally assumed. Stamina sorcerer also seems to be played far less than it did a year ago.
    2. Templars remain high on the list due to their zergball tactics and ready place as a healer.
    3. Dragonknights do not fare well in the bulk of PvP (that is, open world and sieges), regardless of their dueling potential. Players have been drifting away from mag and stam DK.
    4. NBs remain hyper popular, and due to their high viability in raiding (NB parses are some of the highest in the game, and NBs of both types are desired in raids) as well as their high ability in PvP, they do well. This is DESPITE some of their core skills STILL being broken.

    ---

    After dragonbones drops I'm going to start recording my full data set I think, and post my results and theories. Keep an eye out for it in the next few weeks.

    NightBlades being popular has less to do with balance and more to due with the general archtype of the class. Rogues and Ninjas are always over played in every game. The first few installments of WOW you couldn't go 2 min in any pvp zone without a rogue poping out your ass cause they were every where and over played. Same with eso I remember slotting and setting up to specifically counter NB cloak in early cyro cause it felt like every player was NB in there and spammed cloak before ZOS broke it by changing it to suppress dots instead of cleanse. And DKs were broken AF back then in the right hands yet not many people were playing them then either. DK just doesn't fit into an archtype many want to play cause ZOS is even confused about the direction and niche they want the class to fit except as a tank.
    Edited by NuarBlack on February 12, 2018 7:49AM
  • CaliMade
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    as if breaking powerlash wasnt enough the go and make sure my 250 cost standard gets negated by the PUGs guardian angel set Earthgore. Omg this is so bad , this is so bad. EVERYONE RUNS THIS SET!!!!! Standard is useless in OW now thanks zenimax for Adding another stab wound to the already bleeding out Dks. They go through all that trouble to rework shifting standard to be more appealing in OW then with this you just completey remove it from the playing feild. Theres a damn earthgore proc in nearly every standard i drop. This really sucks man. : (
    Edited by CaliMade on February 12, 2018 1:13PM
    XB1 GT- Cali Made


    Praetorian Stam DK Redguard

    Brigadier Stam/magblade (whatever i feel like running) Redguard

    Major Mag DK Dark Elf

    lieutenant Mag/stamplar (whatever i feel like running) Redguard
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    CaliMade wrote: »
    as if breaking powerlash wasnt enough the go and make sure my 250 cost standard gets negated by the PUGs guardian angel set Earthgore. Omg this is so bad , this is so bad. EVERYONE RUNS THIS SET!!!!! Standard is useless in OW now thanks zenimax for Adding another stab wound to the already bleeding out Dks. They go through all that trouble to rework shifting standard to be more appealing in OW then with this you just completey remove it from the playing feild. Theres a damn earthgore proc in nearly every standard i drop. This really sucks man. : (

    ZOS really, really hates Dks.

    Or they seriously don't play PvP, at all.

    They literally think standart is a god tier ultimate, which goes to show just how unaware they are.

    On the topic, standart is worthless even without the earthgore, Its one of the weakest ults and also its ridicilously bad at cost effectiveness. 250 cost for major defile and a weak dot?

    How about I just use corrosive armor to go saiyan mode for 10 seconds instead? or just leap 2 times... at least leap actually hits people hard, and hits them when you want.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on February 14, 2018 2:13AM
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