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Dragon Bones comes out in < 2 weeks and DKs are still a complete mess

  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Carbonised wrote: »
    As a MagDK main who likes to do both PvP and PvE, this continued hostility from the gameplay dev team (looking at you, Wroebel) towards my class and my spec is starting to become really frustrating.

    It seems like every patch and update has some new nerfs and tweaks (read: more nerfs) towards the DK class, and especially the MagDK spec of the class.

    How long do you intend to let the MagDK suffer from being OP more than 2 years ago? Heck, I wasn't even playing back then.

    Joy summarized that with a phrase that makes full sense now: Post-traumatic DK syndrome
    The biggest problem within this game is the lack imagination on its player base and its developers...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    Get rid of poison on DKs...
  • Master_Kas
    Master_Kas
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Still no reply in any DK thread. Let the class rest and get yourself a stamden for PvP. :trollface:
    EU | PC
    AD
    Master Kas - Nightblade
    Al Sah-Him - Nightblade
    Dickon Tarly - Dragonknight
    Steve's Little Healslave - Templar
    Dominion Hero - Warden

    EP
    Kassandra Miho - Nightblade

    DC
    Cheat Engine - Nightblade
    Valkyrja - Dragonknight
    Alva - Sorcerer
  • ascan7
    ascan7
    ✭✭✭
    I wanted to start a MagDK with this update thanks to the Zaan set, but i guess it's not the ideal time :'(
  • Smmokkee
    Smmokkee
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The whole quarterly update thing has been a massive failure.
  • Liam12548
    Liam12548
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hate to say it, but these nerf are mainly hitting the pve aspect of dks. In pvp, they have arguably been the strongest class for months. When you face a class that can block 100% of the time, has no bashable skills, still does damage wit sword and board front bar in heavy armor, has the strongest single target PRESSURE available, has a FREE TO CAST hard hitting abillity that HEALS, there isn't much counterplay available. I remember when the first pts notes came out this cycle, and dks were ECSTATIC about the fact that they would be able to power lash 5x in a row. How can you even, in good conscience, defend something like that? You can't. If you try to from a pvp perspective, you're lying to yourself and you also likely main the class.

    The shafting was a long time coming.
    React Faster - XB NA - Solo & Small scale PvP player

    1400+ CP

    Characters (All AP earned Solo or in groups smaller than 5/BG's)
    Heal R - AD Orc Templar - AR 50
    Flee's - AD Orc Blade - AR 35 - Played as both mag and stam
    Or Sorc - AD Orc Sorcerer - AR 36 - Played as both mag and stam
    Bearenstein - AD Nord Warden - AR 26 - Played as both mag and stam
    Heel'Ar - AD Nord Dragonknight - AR 25
    Your Dad's Dad - AD Breton Dragonknight - AR 23
    Second Class Citizen - DC Breton Templar - AR 25

    PvE
    45k DSA 2 dps 1 heal 1 tank
    60k vBRP 2dps 1 heal 1 tank
    Trashcan stamNB in V/O & spriggans - 50k DPS

    Content
  • Onefrkncrzypope
    Onefrkncrzypope
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would like to say that this update wasn't supposed to be a balance update. The devs said that. The reason why the DK changes happened is because they relied on off banlance for thier damage. The problem is that only. They wanted to change the o b meta and it hurt DKs. First it was a disgusting buff to mDK PvP but they brought that way down. I'm going to wait until the balance that comes with the chapter this summer before I get pissed.
    If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling
  • Saint_Bud
    Saint_Bud
    ✭✭✭✭
    what is good damage in pve for you? For me its not a 3 mil burst on a dummy, its when a class is able to sustain this damage. You still will be able to to this, but your damage in a long fight is *** on some classes, and thats why they dont used.
    PVP Saint-Bud magicka Templar: AR 46
    PVE Lord Victarion mDK : dro'm-Athra-Destroyer pre Morrowind retired for crafting
    PVE Ramsay-Bolton magicka NB: Voice of Reason Clockwork City Patch retired
    VAA hm/ VHRC hm/ VSO hm/ VMOL hm/ VHOF hm/ VAS hm clear

    Stop playing PVE because its boring, content not disigned for melee players and class balance and sustain is ***
  • Drakkdjinn
    Drakkdjinn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    But they added a new DK in Morrowind for u to buy...dunno why ppl haven’t adjusted their DK play style to that as Zo$ intended...

    Balance will cost you extra!
    <Tertiary Meat> | <The Sleeping Dragon Inn> | <Fus-Ro-Die>

    Drakk the Berserker
    Drakk the Barbarian
    Saltasaurus Rex
    Father of the Year

    The Savior of Cyrodil
  • Saint_Bud
    Saint_Bud
    ✭✭✭✭
    Drakkdjinn wrote: »
    But they added a new DK in Morrowind for u to buy...dunno why ppl haven’t adjusted their DK play style to that as Zo$ intended...

    Balance will cost you extra!

    Warden is good in pvp, but why should play anyone them in pve???
    PVP Saint-Bud magicka Templar: AR 46
    PVE Lord Victarion mDK : dro'm-Athra-Destroyer pre Morrowind retired for crafting
    PVE Ramsay-Bolton magicka NB: Voice of Reason Clockwork City Patch retired
    VAA hm/ VHRC hm/ VSO hm/ VMOL hm/ VHOF hm/ VAS hm clear

    Stop playing PVE because its boring, content not disigned for melee players and class balance and sustain is ***
  • Master_Kas
    Master_Kas
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    Hate to say it, but these nerf are mainly hitting the pve aspect of dks. In pvp, they have arguably been the strongest class for months. When you face a class that can block 100% of the time, has no bashable skills, still does damage wit sword and board front bar in heavy armor, has the strongest single target PRESSURE available, has a FREE TO CAST hard hitting abillity that HEALS, there isn't much counterplay available. I remember when the first pts notes came out this cycle, and dks were ECSTATIC about the fact that they would be able to power lash 5x in a row. How can you even, in good conscience, defend something like that? You can't. If you try to from a pvp perspective, you're lying to yourself and you also likely main the class.

    The shafting was a long time coming.

    That's why the top raids run so many dk's in their PvP raids hue hue.

    They have always been strong in dueling tough.

    Edit: my main class is magblade :smiley:
    Edited by Master_Kas on February 1, 2018 6:47PM
    EU | PC
    AD
    Master Kas - Nightblade
    Al Sah-Him - Nightblade
    Dickon Tarly - Dragonknight
    Steve's Little Healslave - Templar
    Dominion Hero - Warden

    EP
    Kassandra Miho - Nightblade

    DC
    Cheat Engine - Nightblade
    Valkyrja - Dragonknight
    Alva - Sorcerer
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    Hate to say it, but these nerf are mainly hitting the pve aspect of dks. In pvp, they have arguably been the strongest class for months. When you face a class that can block 100% of the time, has no bashable skills, still does damage wit sword and board front bar in heavy armor, has the strongest single target PRESSURE available, has a FREE TO CAST hard hitting abillity that HEALS, there isn't much counterplay available. I remember when the first pts notes came out this cycle, and dks were ECSTATIC about the fact that they would be able to power lash 5x in a row. How can you even, in good conscience, defend something like that? You can't. If you try to from a pvp perspective, you're lying to yourself and you also likely main the class.

    The shafting was a long time coming.

    PvP strongest class? Duels, sure. Everything else, bottom few. Permablock is dead. Damage in s/b heavy is sorely lacking, unlike a warden of the same standard. Strongest ST pressure is a stretch. In light, DK hits like a freight train, but other classes like stamsorc/dotblade can have better pressure, also pressure is really undesirable outside of 1v1s. Not much counterplay, range, FM/shuffle. Dodge/mist before flame lash hits, and now can dodge anyway.

    Also no one was ecstatic when multi lash happened. 1) Its OP, DK mains made threads offering fixes 2) We knew that they would overnerf it.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Saint_Bud
    Saint_Bud
    ✭✭✭✭
    Liam12548 wrote: »
    Hate to say it, but these nerf are mainly hitting the pve aspect of dks. In pvp, they have arguably been the strongest class for months. When you face a class that can block 100% of the time, has no bashable skills, still does damage wit sword and board front bar in heavy armor, has the strongest single target PRESSURE available, has a FREE TO CAST hard hitting abillity that HEALS, there isn't much counterplay available. I remember when the first pts notes came out this cycle, and dks were ECSTATIC about the fact that they would be able to power lash 5x in a row. How can you even, in good conscience, defend something like that? You can't. If you try to from a pvp perspective, you're lying to yourself and you also likely main the class.

    The shafting was a long time coming.

    Sry to say that, but mdks are only good because player like to be an vamp. Drop this and they lose a lot of damage potantional. And permanlockers are only good against player that dont know how to drop block( fear and co).
    PVP Saint-Bud magicka Templar: AR 46
    PVE Lord Victarion mDK : dro'm-Athra-Destroyer pre Morrowind retired for crafting
    PVE Ramsay-Bolton magicka NB: Voice of Reason Clockwork City Patch retired
    VAA hm/ VHRC hm/ VSO hm/ VMOL hm/ VHOF hm/ VAS hm clear

    Stop playing PVE because its boring, content not disigned for melee players and class balance and sustain is ***
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Jamini wrote: »
    You know, having done some research (with numbers and actually looking up in-game data via addons) I actually owe @Vaoh an apology for bashing him over sorcerers. Recently I've been recording kill-death data in Cyrodiil on various factions and campaigns to get a general idea of what is and is not played in PvP today.

    The results both did and did not surprise me.

    All numbers are rough estimates:

    No-CP Class Breakdown

    NightBlade | 40%
    Templar | 25%
    Sorcerer | 15%
    Dragonknight | 15%
    Warden | 5% (P2W, availability reduces their numbers)

    CP Class Breakdown.

    NightBlade | 30%
    Templar | 25%
    Dragonknight | 20%
    Sorcerer | 15%
    Warden | 10% (Again, availability reduces potential numbers)

    My sample size is still fairly small, but so far my results have been consistent across the last week.

    As far as I can tell, excluding warden due to the paid nature of the class, Sorcerer and DK pretty consistently make up the lower 30-40% of class composition on the field. While NightBlade (likely majority stamina) clearly dominate in numbers. From this data, I hypothesize a few things:

    1. The recent changes to Sorcerer (loss of stun and damage on frags) hurt them far more than I originally assumed. Stamina sorcerer also seems to be played far less than it did a year ago.
    2. Templars remain high on the list due to their zergball tactics and ready place as a healer.
    3. Dragonknights do not fare well in the bulk of PvP (that is, open world and sieges), regardless of their dueling potential. Players have been drifting away from mag and stam DK.
    4. NBs remain hyper popular, and due to their high viability in raiding (NB parses are some of the highest in the game, and NBs of both types are desired in raids) as well as their high ability in PvP, they do well. This is DESPITE some of their core skills STILL being broken.

    ---

    After dragonbones drops I'm going to start recording my full data set I think, and post my results and theories. Keep an eye out for it in the next few weeks.

    I'd like to say that may be due to the meta sorcs/DK also being hard to kill and having some difficulty killing others after the changes, not 100% down to played, whilst many stamblades can kill/be killed quicker and more often, so are seen on the stats more.

    Though it does also reflect the obvious of NBs being player favorite (everyone wants to be the cool edgy ninja, which is why you see so many bad ones) for OW grouped and solo, and templars being very supporty.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Jamini
    Jamini
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    I'd like to say that may be due to the meta sorcs/DK also being hard to kill and having some difficulty killing others after the changes, not 100% down to played, whilst many stamblades can kill/be killed quicker and more often, so are seen on the stats more.

    There are very, very few DKs that can survive AT LENGTH when they are zerged down. Even blocktanks get ground down eventually by a group. I would highly doubt that what you commented on even accounts for a 5% difference in kill results, especially as most AvA gameplay revolves around bigger groups steamrolling small groups.

    If a class is having outright problems killing people, then I would argue that that class is in no way overpowered. Hell, it's a far cry to call them strong. A stalemate is not a win, and is rarely desirable for either side. (To quote TF2: "Stalemate, EVERYONE loses.")
    "Adapt. or Die."
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Jamini wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    I'd like to say that may be due to the meta sorcs/DK also being hard to kill and having some difficulty killing others after the changes, not 100% down to played, whilst many stamblades can kill/be killed quicker and more often, so are seen on the stats more.

    There are very, very few DKs that can survive AT LENGTH when they are zerged down. Even blocktanks get ground down eventually by a group. I would highly doubt that what you commented on even accounts for a 5% difference in kill results, especially as most AvA gameplay revolves around bigger groups steamrolling small groups.

    If a class is having outright problems killing people, then I would argue that that class is in no way overpowered. Hell, it's a far cry to call them strong. A stalemate is not a win, and is rarely desirable for either side. (To quote TF2: "Stalemate, EVERYONE loses.")

    I know, DKs are pretty bad in OW environment, but as I do not know how you play, it could have easily been that you ran into a lot of stalemates, as is common with sorcs/DKs soloVsolo, both being able to stretch a 1v1. So received nothing on the addon, but with an NB it's often kill/killed which would appear on the addon.

    If you play grouped then its probably more accurate, both since less survival/escape to those you fight, so better results.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stamden wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Wait who even plays mDKs on live for serious PVE content anymore? They have been kinda useless ever since stam started outperforming magika.

    That kind of mentality is a reason why bow builds for pve will never be buffed or reworked. Just as you put it that "stam took over melee" mag has ranged domimance. Why can both have both?

    Stam being best melee, and mag being best ranged is fine, until you consider the melee-only mags, like DKs.

    And if mag dks become viable in trials, it would only be fair if bow builds are viable too.
    PS. Im all for both
    Edit, mag vs melee
    Edited by JobooAGS on February 1, 2018 8:53PM
  • Drakkdjinn
    Drakkdjinn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Saint_Bud wrote: »
    Drakkdjinn wrote: »
    But they added a new DK in Morrowind for u to buy...dunno why ppl haven’t adjusted their DK play style to that as Zo$ intended...

    Balance will cost you extra!

    Warden is good in pvp, but why should play anyone them in pve???

    Cuz they better than mDK in PvE next patch. And better
    Jamini wrote: »
    You know, having done some research (with numbers and actually looking up in-game data via addons) I actually owe @Vaoh an apology for bashing him over sorcerers. Recently I've been recording kill-death data in Cyrodiil on various factions and campaigns to get a general idea of what is and is not played in PvP today.

    The results both did and did not surprise me.

    All numbers are rough estimates:

    No-CP Class Breakdown

    NightBlade | 40%
    Templar | 25%
    Sorcerer | 15%
    Dragonknight | 15%
    Warden | 5% (P2W, availability reduces their numbers)

    CP Class Breakdown.

    NightBlade | 30%
    Templar | 25%
    Dragonknight | 20%
    Sorcerer | 15%
    Warden | 10% (Again, availability reduces potential numbers)

    My sample size is still fairly small, but so far my results have been consistent across the last week.

    As far as I can tell, excluding warden due to the paid nature of the class, Sorcerer and DK pretty consistently make up the lower 30-40% of class composition on the field. While NightBlade (likely majority stamina) clearly dominate in numbers. From this data, I hypothesize a few things:

    1. The recent changes to Sorcerer (loss of stun and damage on frags) hurt them far more than I originally assumed. Stamina sorcerer also seems to be played far less than it did a year ago.
    2. Templars remain high on the list due to their zergball tactics and ready place as a healer.
    3. Dragonknights do not fare well in the bulk of PvP (that is, open world and sieges), regardless of their dueling potential. Players have been drifting away from mag and stam DK.
    4. NBs remain hyper popular, and due to their high viability in raiding (NB parses are some of the highest in the game, and NBs of both types are desired in raids) as well as their high ability in PvP, they do well. This is DESPITE some of their core skills STILL being broken.

    ---

    After dragonbones drops I'm going to start recording my full data set I think, and post my results and theories. Keep an eye out for it in the next few weeks.


    Looks like your build is countered by NBs is the only conclusion we can safely draw from your stats.
    <Tertiary Meat> | <The Sleeping Dragon Inn> | <Fus-Ro-Die>

    Drakk the Berserker
    Drakk the Barbarian
    Saltasaurus Rex
    Father of the Year

    The Savior of Cyrodil
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jamini wrote: »
    You know, having done some research (with numbers and actually looking up in-game data via addons) I actually owe @Vaoh an apology for bashing him over sorcerers. Recently I've been recording kill-death data in Cyrodiil on various factions and campaigns to get a general idea of what is and is not played in PvP today.

    The results both did and did not surprise me.

    All numbers are rough estimates:

    No-CP Class Breakdown

    NightBlade | 40%
    Templar | 25%
    Sorcerer | 15%
    Dragonknight | 15%
    Warden | 5% (P2W, availability reduces their numbers)

    CP Class Breakdown.

    NightBlade | 30%
    Templar | 25%
    Dragonknight | 20%
    Sorcerer | 15%
    Warden | 10% (Again, availability reduces potential numbers)

    My sample size is still fairly small, but so far my results have been consistent across the last week.

    As far as I can tell, excluding warden due to the paid nature of the class, Sorcerer and DK pretty consistently make up the lower 30-40% of class composition on the field. While NightBlade (likely majority stamina) clearly dominate in numbers. From this data, I hypothesize a few things:

    1. The recent changes to Sorcerer (loss of stun and damage on frags) hurt them far more than I originally assumed. Stamina sorcerer also seems to be played far less than it did a year ago.
    2. Templars remain high on the list due to their zergball tactics and ready place as a healer.
    3. Dragonknights do not fare well in the bulk of PvP (that is, open world and sieges), regardless of their dueling potential. Players have been drifting away from mag and stam DK.
    4. NBs remain hyper popular, and due to their high viability in raiding (NB parses are some of the highest in the game, and NBs of both types are desired in raids) as well as their high ability in PvP, they do well. This is DESPITE some of their core skills STILL being broken.

    ---

    After dragonbones drops I'm going to start recording my full data set I think, and post my results and theories. Keep an eye out for it in the next few weeks.

    Idk when we argued. Don’t worry about it though lol. All I hope you take from this is to understand that Class-based nerfs are almost always unnecessary in ESO - classes need buffs, some more than others. Also despite NB being very strong in all content rn, it doesn’t mean they need a nerf. The other classes should be unnerfed/brought up to the current NB’s level, which is a really fun class atm.

    A lot of people followed suit with saying that Crystal Frags losing its stun wasn’t a nerf. You certainly were not the only one. Some people even said it was a buff because we have Rune Cage now :lol:

    Anyway, the “nerf sorc thread” thing died down for a reason. It’s interesting how Sorcs are now a mess of a class while NBs are incredible, yet we don’t see “nerf NB threads”? That tends to be how people are on the Forums. Sorc was legit OP at one point while the majority of QQers were NB mains who wanted the class to be ruined rather than balanced. The difference nowadays is that Sorc is often so pidgeonholed into a boring playstyle that all of the Sorcs that’d normally complain have switched to NB too. Many ppl only care that *their* class is good unfortunately, since nerfing others makes their gameplay easier.

    The loss of Frags stun absolutely ruined DW Sorc against good players btw. Curse -> Meteor -> Rune Cage is very predictable and blockable if quick enough, though like many things it might be good in a duel (not what ESO is balanced for). Any Mag Sorc build that must rely on Meteor/Dawnbreaker/whatever to get what should be easy kills is flawed. Sorcs using a Destro Staff now use Destructive Touch w/ Master Staff because it’s way better in PvP than any Rune Cage or Frags for almost every situation. All in all, Sorc is the most boring it has ever been... there are so few ways to effectively play it that most people don’t hesitate to switch to NB now.

    Next patch NB is actually getting a substantial buff too. I only hope this doesn’t lead them into the same nerf trend that Sorcs dealt with. I can already see Cloak getting a stacking cost, damage reductions on most of their skills, cost increases, etc. That’s all PvP QQ ever does :unamused:

  • Jamini
    Jamini
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Stamden wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Wait who even plays mDKs on live for serious PVE content anymore? They have been kinda useless ever since stam started outperforming magika.

    That kind of mentality is a reason why bow builds for pve will never be buffed or reworked. Just as you put it that "stam took over melee" mag has ranged domimance. Why can both have both?

    Stam being best melee, and mag being best ranged is fine, until you consider the melee-only mags, like DKs.

    And if mag dks become viable in trials, it would only be fair if bow builds are viable too.
    PS. Im all for both
    Edit, mag vs melee

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/371415283778322444/408437607253409792/Screenshot_20180130_192449.png

    They can be. If you know how.

    "Adapt. or Die."
  • Jamini
    Jamini
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Drakkdjinn wrote: »
    Looks like your build is countered by NBs is the only conclusion we can safely draw from your stats.

    KC counts both deaths and kills. This is also across multiple characters on my part. (StamDen, magDK, and a Magsorc)
    "Adapt. or Die."
  • Jamini
    Jamini
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Vaoh May I still be salty that sorcs have a cheaper, longer-ranged version of my mDK's stun?
    "Adapt. or Die."
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Jamini wrote: »
    You know, having done some research (with numbers and actually looking up in-game data via addons) I actually owe @Vaoh an apology for bashing him over sorcerers. Recently I've been recording kill-death data in Cyrodiil on various factions and campaigns to get a general idea of what is and is not played in PvP today.

    The results both did and did not surprise me.

    All numbers are rough estimates:

    No-CP Class Breakdown

    NightBlade | 40%
    Templar | 25%
    Sorcerer | 15%
    Dragonknight | 15%
    Warden | 5% (P2W, availability reduces their numbers)

    CP Class Breakdown.

    NightBlade | 30%
    Templar | 25%
    Dragonknight | 20%
    Sorcerer | 15%
    Warden | 10% (Again, availability reduces potential numbers)

    My sample size is still fairly small, but so far my results have been consistent across the last week.

    As far as I can tell, excluding warden due to the paid nature of the class, Sorcerer and DK pretty consistently make up the lower 30-40% of class composition on the field. While NightBlade (likely majority stamina) clearly dominate in numbers. From this data, I hypothesize a few things:

    1. The recent changes to Sorcerer (loss of stun and damage on frags) hurt them far more than I originally assumed. Stamina sorcerer also seems to be played far less than it did a year ago.
    2. Templars remain high on the list due to their zergball tactics and ready place as a healer.
    3. Dragonknights do not fare well in the bulk of PvP (that is, open world and sieges), regardless of their dueling potential. Players have been drifting away from mag and stam DK.
    4. NBs remain hyper popular, and due to their high viability in raiding (NB parses are some of the highest in the game, and NBs of both types are desired in raids) as well as their high ability in PvP, they do well. This is DESPITE some of their core skills STILL being broken.

    ---

    After dragonbones drops I'm going to start recording my full data set I think, and post my results and theories. Keep an eye out for it in the next few weeks.

    I'd like to say that may be due to the meta sorcs/DK also being hard to kill and having some difficulty killing others after the changes, not 100% down to played, whilst many stamblades can kill/be killed quicker and more often, so are seen on the stats more.

    Though it does also reflect the obvious of NBs being player favorite (everyone wants to be the cool edgy ninja, which is why you see so many bad ones) for OW grouped and solo, and templars being very supporty.

    Sorcs are much easier to kill nowadays :/

    Damage has increased overtime. While resistances mitigate a percentage of damage taken, Damage Shields take the full value so they have become noticeably weaker than in the past. Sorcs need to stack regen more than before in order to maintain shields, causing their Max Mag to suffer a bit too. This is why Magblade is so amazing, since it has both a damage shield *and* good healing. Sorc relies almost solely on damage shields.

    When I jumped into IC on PS4 NA, there were entire groups of NBs ganking. I then went to Cyrodiil and could still find groups (8-16ppl) of almost solely NBs roaming around. Not to mention you don’t ever see them all since Mag NBs move around cloaked.

    You may have a had a different experience, but honestly NBs are extremely popular rn. Also I have found that at least for myself, Sorcs are super easy to kill. They legit can stack Max Magicka + shieldstack and then still have their shields burned easily against just one Stam character. Against two they are dead almost instantly. It’s so obvious to me at least just how weak they‘be become and pidgeonholed into the same builds. So little reason exists to use a Sorc over a NB, within PvE and PvP.

    Edited by Vaoh on February 1, 2018 9:21PM
  • ak_pvp
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    Jamini wrote: »
    @Vaoh May I still be salty that sorcs have a cheaper, longer-ranged version of my mDK's stun?

    What makes me sad about sorc, both actually, is that the playstyles I played them for are gone. Its still pretty OK for most PvP, if you play shield stack, tree hug and pick one off bit by bit until you get zerged, but I don't want something that plays like a worse magblade, I want a speedy summoner build.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    Jamini wrote: »
    @Vaoh May I still be salty that sorcs have a cheaper, longer-ranged version of my mDK's stun?

    Yes. And I’d love to give it back. I wasn’t a fan of DK having it so long-ranged but I especially hate that Sorcs have it now for no reason. Idk if Sorc has a cheaper cost though.
  • Arobain
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    nah they are completely fine lol
  • NyassaV
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    Gotta say it... So much QQ

    Just reduce all the skill costs by 1% so they shut up already
    Flawless Conqueror ~ Alliance Warlord
    She/Her ~ PC/NA
    ESOFam Community Discord: https://discord.gg/gMntMb8
    I record things for fun and for info
    https://youtube.com/channel/UC0WuLVnsW177WKkKcvNuuYA
  • DDuke
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    Vaoh wrote: »
    Jamini wrote: »
    @Vaoh May I still be salty that sorcs have a cheaper, longer-ranged version of my mDK's stun?

    Yes. And I’d love to give it back. I wasn’t a fan of DK having it so long-ranged but I especially hate that Sorcs have it now for no reason. Idk if Sorc has a cheaper cost though.

    Sorc version doesn't root the target, return 990 stamina & 3 ultimate and it doesn't have 6k tooltip on dmg like Fossilize (or well, it'll never deal that dmg atleast).


    I don't think it's fair to compare the two, Fossilize being melee range is one of the more sensible balance changes ZOS has made.
    Edited by DDuke on February 1, 2018 9:45PM
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • Vaoh
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Vaoh wrote: »
    Jamini wrote: »
    @Vaoh May I still be salty that sorcs have a cheaper, longer-ranged version of my mDK's stun?

    Yes. And I’d love to give it back. I wasn’t a fan of DK having it so long-ranged but I especially hate that Sorcs have it now for no reason. Idk if Sorc has a cheaper cost though.

    Sorc version doesn't root the target, return 990 stamina & 3 ultimate and it doesn't have 6k tooltip on dmg like Fossilize (or well, it'll never deal that dmg atleast).


    I don't think it's fair to compare the two, Fossilize being melee range is one of the more sensible balance changes ZOS has made.

    ^Good points
  • pieratsos
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    Vaoh wrote: »
    Jamini wrote: »
    @Vaoh May I still be salty that sorcs have a cheaper, longer-ranged version of my mDK's stun?

    Yes. And I’d love to give it back. I wasn’t a fan of DK having it so long-ranged but I especially hate that Sorcs have it now for no reason. Idk if Sorc has a cheaper cost though.

    Rune cage actually costs a lot more than fossilize. But its not like you can reason with someone that calls a skill that costs 2.4k VERY EXPENSIVE, believes that spectral bow hits for 30k on players and complains why his power lash doesnt hit as hard.
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