OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

As if dawnbreaker isnt strong enough already.

You may have noticed that I never made mention of Dawnbreaker because it is powerful as it is and does not need buffing. I'm trying for balance, not OP or broken.

Yeah, but vampirism/lycantropy wouldnt even be viable if you would get hit for absurdly high amounts of damage. Its ONLY viable because fire debuff is kinda worth the 10% regen. And 10% regen isnt even a big deal, its more of a minmaxing thing.
My point is, your roleplay should not render one of game's features useless. You already have ways to do more damage to undead and werewolves (dawnbreaker, prismatic glyph, fire/poison), so you can just use them.

To be honest I think the idea of Fighter´s Guild abilities doing less damage to non-daedric creates would be a good change. As compensation increase the damage they do towards daedric creataures and werewolfs.

While it would help the current vampire infestation we have going on, it would also nerf Stamina DPS again. The whole fighters guild changes were implemented to bring stam DPS back to usefulness in PvE.

I can't see a reversion of that decision. But boosting individual skills could happen.

Give silver bolts (and its morphs) its pinning mechanic back and increase the damage slightly. A lot of the other skills still have their utility for such a build.

The pinning mechanic on bolts requires skill to use well. Pin at the right time and the Vamp can't run in mist for to LoS and heal. Wrong time and it's CC immunity and a higher chance of getting killed by said vamp.

Just one question: why do you think that vamps should be countered THAT hard?
I mean, yeah, back in the days FG abilities were stronger. But you surely remember the age of vamp dks... That was absurdly OP and led to a ton of nerfs. In their current incarnation, vamps arent that strong, so why a counter should be stronger than a thing you want to counter?

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

It's not that ithe should be stronger than something you want to counter. It'seems more that currently the counterplay to vampires is much weaker than the Vamps.

Vampirism is strong in this game, and AoE cap release on this will make it stronger. Buff the counterplay to balance it.

Its not that strong. I rarely see anyone using vamp abilities except for the mist form, but every stam build uses dawnbreaker (both pvp and pve) and trap (pve). The passive that gives you extra ult for killing undead and daedra is also very useful.
Maybe it could be balanced by buffing both FG and vamp/ww and locking out FG skills if youre afflicted by vampirism or lycantropy, but what you're offering isnt balanced in the slightest. Vamps arent nearly as powerful as they used to be.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

OK, so in the early days of ESO there was a bit of balance between humans, vampires and werewolves in PvP, and the main reason for this was the ability to use certain fighters guild skills to punish vampires.

It was possible to make a vampire hunter build and have it be effective, using skills such as silver bolts to pin vamps. Then ZOS removed these aspects of the skills from these abilities and Cyrodiil is now just full of vampires.

My suggestion would be to revert the changes to silver bolts and the morphs to pin vampires down again as well as slightly boost it's overall damage. This would bring a small amount more balance to the game as currently there is no counterplay to vampires. Fire does not work, it hardly ever did.

Or give more options to help punish/damage vamps

Give back the option to make vampire hunter builds #freeupbuilddiversity #makevampsthinktwice

Opinons on this?

Nice try Dawnguard

Just out of curiosity, which of the three Vampire skills is the one kickin' your ass?

Azurya wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

OK, so in the early days of ESO there was a bit of balance between humans, vampires and werewolves in PvP, and the main reason for this was the ability to use certain fighters guild skills to punish vampires.

It was possible to make a vampire hunter build and have it be effective, using skills such as silver bolts to pin vamps. Then ZOS removed these aspects of the skills from these abilities and Cyrodiil is now just full of vampires.

My suggestion would be to revert the changes to silver bolts and the morphs to pin vampires down again as well as slightly boost it's overall damage. This would bring a small amount more balance to the game as currently there is no counterplay to vampires. Fire does not work, it hardly ever did.

Or give more options to help punish/damage vamps

Give back the option to make vampire hunter builds #freeupbuilddiversity #makevampsthinktwice

Opinons on this?

fully admit your points
never understood why ZOS slightly changed vampires and nerfed ww so massiv(because of stamina, you think? me too)
But yeah give us an vampire hunter, boost the fightersguildskills massiv
so we can punish that scum!

I don't want a totally OP skill which makes the hunt easy and boring.

I want there to be more balance which then gives better fights, and build diversity so I don't have to see the same build repeated OVER and OVER and OVER again. If pretty much every stamina build has to run Dawnbreaker, there is no diversity. If pretty much every build with a staff is running Eye of the Storm then again, there is no Diversity.

It's ok having different and diverse classes but if we squeeze them all in to tiny boxes, what's the point? We may as well cut the number of skills in half if that is the case. It's ok to have Vampire, but if there's not enough counterplay or penalties as a trade off, then it makes vampire the only option and then what is the point.

This is all about build diversity and balance. Do ZOS believe in what they preach with build diversity and counterplay? Or are these just buzz words for show and excuses for nerfs rather than also applying to buffs?

I also want some sets to be buffed and altered to give further diversity and scope. Some crafted sets are so useless at the moment that they need some love, like some abilities do. Some of these need changing (see Oblivion's Foe), some need buffing damage wise to make more useful (Ashen Grip for example).

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

You lost all cred right there...

One of the biggest reasons why Destro Ult/Proxy/Vicious Death is so effective in Cyrodiil is because of all the Vampires running around...

Just think about it...

Eye of Flame is already very strong; what happens when you add a 25% vulnerability to fire.

If the Destro ultimate was a deterrent then why are there SO MANY vamps.

Additionally your one method of counterplay involves running a single specific weapon and using its ultimate.

Not to mention running proximity detonation and VD. so to be efficient at removing Vampires you essentially have to be a bomb blade? Tell me, why isn't every Emperor a bomb blade then if it is so effective against vampires?

Oh yeah, because CP's and mist form. Tell me again how effective fire is.

You are shifting goal posts; you initially said that Fire Damage didn't work on Vampires...

This is 100% wrong as Vampires facing Eye of Flame and Magicka Dragonknights will agree with...

And Vampiric weaknesses do deter some from going Vamp; I personally know people who won't go Vamp because of how strong Dawnbreaker is against them...


As for all the Vamps in Cyrodiil, this has already been correctly addressed by others earlier in the thread...

Classes that lack mobility, in particular, are very dependent on it...

On my Magicka Templar, the difference between not having Vamp and having Vamp is night and day as pertains to mobility and my ability to escape a bad situation...

Without Vamp, I couldn't get away from a 2 legged dog...

I have not shifted the goal posts. You said that Eye of Flame was a deterrent to vampires. Or that you could effectively nuke them with Eye of Flame, Proxy Det and VD. I Simply countered your point with enough facts that you now feel further away than it.

Nope, I never said that Eye of Flame was a deterrent to Vampires; get your facts straight...


What I did was point out your 100% false statement that Fire doesn't work on Vampires...

That statement of yours is utterly ridiculous and it's completely false...


So after I pointed out your false statement then you shifted your argument by saying that Fire doesn't deter people from going Vamp which is a different argument...

So yeah, you shifted goalposts...

OK. So your post specifically states Eye of Flame when paired with proximity detonation and VD is "so effective" because of all the Vampires. I asked in response why every Emperor/Empress is not a bomb blade then, which I noticed you have blatantly ignored.

Additionally I have not moved the goal posts. If fire damage/Eye of Flame was so effective as you say, then so many more people would not be going vampire. We express this in basic terms of logic as A+B=C.

If vampires are literally everywhere in Cyrodiil and PvE in general then obviously the penalties and adverse effects of being a vamp (fire damage) are not considered as such.

If you were to lock vampires out of the champion skill which allows you to stack points in to fire damage reduction and damage over time reduction then I am inclined to agree that it may do damage again.
This would be HIGHLY UNBALANCED so I would not suggest this and have therefore suggested buffing counterplay to vampires through a little used skill. I've done this by asking to give it back what it had originally and providing a small damage buff to this.


If fire was really effective then you would not have every PvP build on YouTube running it.

You wouldn't have every PvE build stating it's a MUST (or highly advisable in the case of one youtuber) to run.

PvE tanks are running it at stage 4 when fire is literally the MOST common mechanic in dungeons and trials. It gets run as a standard in vMA even though the most common damage mechanic found in the rounds of vMA is fire damage. Need I go on because all this does is further highlight the lack of balance.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

I would agree to this if Witch Slayers become a thing or Sorc Hunters

I'm sure we can look in to a build for such things. They would actually be really fun to hunt as they're generally pretty strong. #BuildDiversity

Hunting classes isn't the same as hunting vampires and werewolves though ☺

Feanor wrote: »

Have a weekend in noCP PvP and report back if you don’t feel the extra damage from Coldharbour Fire Ballistas or even regular ones or a prismatic glyph proc on top of DBoS.

The tools are already in game. You just want another one. Besides, what the game needs is less snares and CCs and not more of them.

So you'really saying that all other parts of the game should be balanced using the 1 no CP campaign?
Personally I think CP's are a main cause of issues in this game but we can't let the rest of the game suffer for no CP PvP unless they want to rework the Champion system, which is fine by me.

And again I'll ask the same questions that have been asked COUNTLESS times in this thread with no answer. If everybody is boxed in to running Dawnbreaker, where is the build diversity that is so heavily preached by ZOS? If everybody is boxed in to going vampire then where is the build diversity so heavily preached by ZOS?

You say that the game needs less CC and snare and in some places I agree. It's imbalanced to have some classes with multiple snares and stuns and others little bits. The problem is not in the skills themselves it is the ease that they can be spammed with.

Also, we had just as much CC and snares in the game when silver bolts had its pinning mechanic (The new class only brought a class stun, while templars had their main stun taken). It's just people didn't spam them.... as much lol. But removing more snares would not remove the current vampire imbalance.

Adding 1 more pinning mechanic that was already in the game at the start is not going to make more vampires. Having a skill which can target them in PvP may just reduce the number of vampires a little.

Is it going to be OP? No. Useful? Yes. Is it going to destroy all game balance? No, because the number of vamps feed that imbalance. It's a counterweight.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Have a weekend in noCP PvP and report back if you don’t feel the extra damage from Coldharbour Fire Ballistas or even regular ones or a prismatic glyph proc on top of DBoS.

The tools are already in game. You just want another one. Besides, what the game needs is less snares and CCs and not more of them.

So you'really saying that all other parts of the game should be balanced using the 1 no CP campaign?
Personally I think CP's are a main cause of issues in this game but we can't let the rest of the game suffer for no CP PvP unless they want to rework the Champion system, which is fine by me.

And again I'll ask the same questions that have been asked COUNTLESS times in this thread with no answer. If everybody is boxed in to running Dawnbreaker, where is the build diversity that is so heavily preached by ZOS? If everybody is boxed in to going vampire then where is the build diversity so heavily preached by ZOS?

You say that the game needs less CC and snare and in some places I agree. It's imbalanced to have some classes with multiple snares and stuns and others little bits. The problem is not in the skills themselves it is the ease that they can be spammed with.

Also, we had just as much CC and snares in the game when silver bolts had its pinning mechanic (The new class only brought a class stun, while templars had their main stun taken). It's just people didn't spam them.... as much lol. But removing more snares would not remove the current vampire imbalance.

Adding 1 more pinning mechanic that was already in the game at the start is not going to make more vampires. Having a skill which can target them in PvP may just reduce the number of vampires a little.

Is it going to be OP? No. Useful? Yes. Is it going to destroy all game balance? No, because the number of vamps feed that imbalance. It's a counterweight.

Yes of course the game should be first balanced for noCP PvP, then CP PvP should be adjusted accordingly, and then PvE in relation to that. It’s how anyone would do it. ZOS doesn’t because this would mean a lot more cost and a lot higher frequency of patches. But if you want everyone to have the same great game experience there is really no other way.

Also I find it absurd that you clamor about build diversity when all you want is having a build that you find interesting. That’s the same as saying „please buff Snipe because I want to be Legolas“.

What downside do you propose taking on in return for this new ability/passive/power?

Vamp has downsides as tradeoff for the benefits, regardless of how you perceive them. If you truly are interested in balance and diversity, what is the negative aspect you'd receive in trade?

Feanor wrote: »

Also I find it absurd that you clamor about build diversity when all you want is having a build that you find interesting. That’s the same as saying „please buff Snipe because I want to be Legolas“.

Quite the opposite in fact. I love diversity of builds, which is why I refuse to ask for nerfs of anything unless it is broken. I want there to be vampires in the game, and werewolves. And hunters and Bow build NB's and ganks, tanks and all other manner of builds. I just hate seeing such an imbalance in populations.

What part of this thread makes you assume that I just want a build I find interesting added? I want more options available to people.

There are over 3000 gear combinations in the game, and many skill combinations. If we're all using the same 30 sets and same skills then the game is failing in its mission for diversity and build freedom.

If everyone is pushing towards vampire, where are the werewolves? Case in point.

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

You lost all cred right there...

One of the biggest reasons why Destro Ult/Proxy/Vicious Death is so effective in Cyrodiil is because of all the Vampires running around...

Just think about it...

Eye of Flame is already very strong; what happens when you add a 25% vulnerability to fire.

If the Destro ultimate was a deterrent then why are there SO MANY vamps.

Additionally your one method of counterplay involves running a single specific weapon and using its ultimate.

Not to mention running proximity detonation and VD. so to be efficient at removing Vampires you essentially have to be a bomb blade? Tell me, why isn't every Emperor a bomb blade then if it is so effective against vampires?

Oh yeah, because CP's and mist form. Tell me again how effective fire is.

You are shifting goal posts; you initially said that Fire Damage didn't work on Vampires...

This is 100% wrong as Vampires facing Eye of Flame and Magicka Dragonknights will agree with...

And Vampiric weaknesses do deter some from going Vamp; I personally know people who won't go Vamp because of how strong Dawnbreaker is against them...


As for all the Vamps in Cyrodiil, this has already been correctly addressed by others earlier in the thread...

Classes that lack mobility, in particular, are very dependent on it...

On my Magicka Templar, the difference between not having Vamp and having Vamp is night and day as pertains to mobility and my ability to escape a bad situation...

Without Vamp, I couldn't get away from a 2 legged dog...

I have not shifted the goal posts. You said that Eye of Flame was a deterrent to vampires. Or that you could effectively nuke them with Eye of Flame, Proxy Det and VD. I Simply countered your point with enough facts that you now feel further away than it.

Nope, I never said that Eye of Flame was a deterrent to Vampires; get your facts straight...


What I did was point out your 100% false statement that Fire doesn't work on Vampires...

That statement of yours is utterly ridiculous and it's completely false...


So after I pointed out your false statement then you shifted your argument by saying that Fire doesn't deter people from going Vamp which is a different argument...

So yeah, you shifted goalposts...

OK. So your post specifically states Eye of Flame when paired with proximity detonation and VD is "so effective" because of all the Vampires. I asked in response why every Emperor/Empress is not a bomb blade then, which I noticed you have blatantly ignored.

Additionally I have not moved the goal posts. If fire damage/Eye of Flame was so effective as you say, then so many more people would not be going vampire. We express this in basic terms of logic as A+B=C.

If vampires are literally everywhere in Cyrodiil and PvE in general then obviously the penalties and adverse effects of being a vamp (fire damage) are not considered as such.

If you were to lock vampires out of the champion skill which allows you to stack points in to fire damage reduction and damage over time reduction then I am inclined to agree that it may do damage again.
This would be HIGHLY UNBALANCED so I would not suggest this and have therefore suggested buffing counterplay to vampires through a little used skill. I've done this by asking to give it back what it had originally and providing a small damage buff to this.


If fire was really effective then you would not have every PvP build on YouTube running it.

You wouldn't have every PvE build stating it's a MUST (or highly advisable in the case of one youtuber) to run.

PvE tanks are running it at stage 4 when fire is literally the MOST common mechanic in dungeons and trials. It gets run as a standard in vMA even though the most common damage mechanic found in the rounds of vMA is fire damage. Need I go on because all this does is further highlight the lack of balance.

Dude...just own the fact that you spoke incorrectly.

You stated that "Fire does not work" on Vampires...

That is utterly and completely ridiculous...



Don't try to misdirect...

Your argument crumbles because the above statement (which is a key point of your opening post) is completely false...


Admit it...

Fire absolutely works on Vampires...

If you build a Vampire that doesn't feature some aspect that significantly mitigates Fire Damage, then Magicka Dragon Knights, Skoria users, Grothdarr users, and Eye of Flame users have a significant advantage against you right out the gate...


You suggest locking Vamps out of CP's that reduce Fire Damage, but in PvP, people that use Elemental Attacks invest in the CP's that enhance Fire Attacks...

So you still end up with the Vamp having a 25% Fire Vulnerability (assuming that the Vamp and the Fire user invest the same amount of CP's into Fire Resist/Fire Enhancement) wether you have CP's or not...

Your 'solution' changes nothing...

If fire is so viable against vamps, why are vamps so common? You still refuse to answer this question. It is among the most common damage type in the game after all. Why are tanks running at stage 4 vampire in vet dungeons and trials full of Fire mechanics? Why is every streamer, youtuber etc. Saying vamp is a must and laughing at the idea of the fire damage which is negated by CP's and the undeath passive?

You still specifically avoided the question as well. If Eye of Flame, Proxy Det and VD are so effective against vampires (your EXACT words) where are all the bomb blade Emperors? I can't remember the last time I saw one and I play on multiple servers.

I made a point using the Champion tree. Please read that full statement again and tell me whether that was something I put forward as viable. Don't misquote me as it simply makes you look foolish when people go read it.

My solution is to buff a skill, giving more options in a game which preaches diversity. Is it a perfect fix? Probably not. Will it take skill to use it well? Yes. Is it the better than waiting for vampire to get nerfed when ZOS run the figures and realise that we have become Vampire Scrolls Online? Yes.

Buff counterplay = stop nerfs.

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

You lost all cred right there...

One of the biggest reasons why Destro Ult/Proxy/Vicious Death is so effective in Cyrodiil is because of all the Vampires running around...

Just think about it...

Eye of Flame is already very strong; what happens when you add a 25% vulnerability to fire.

If the Destro ultimate was a deterrent then why are there SO MANY vamps.

Additionally your one method of counterplay involves running a single specific weapon and using its ultimate.

Not to mention running proximity detonation and VD. so to be efficient at removing Vampires you essentially have to be a bomb blade? Tell me, why isn't every Emperor a bomb blade then if it is so effective against vampires?

Oh yeah, because CP's and mist form. Tell me again how effective fire is.

You are shifting goal posts; you initially said that Fire Damage didn't work on Vampires...

This is 100% wrong as Vampires facing Eye of Flame and Magicka Dragonknights will agree with...

And Vampiric weaknesses do deter some from going Vamp; I personally know people who won't go Vamp because of how strong Dawnbreaker is against them...


As for all the Vamps in Cyrodiil, this has already been correctly addressed by others earlier in the thread...

Classes that lack mobility, in particular, are very dependent on it...

On my Magicka Templar, the difference between not having Vamp and having Vamp is night and day as pertains to mobility and my ability to escape a bad situation...

Without Vamp, I couldn't get away from a 2 legged dog...

I have not shifted the goal posts. You said that Eye of Flame was a deterrent to vampires. Or that you could effectively nuke them with Eye of Flame, Proxy Det and VD. I Simply countered your point with enough facts that you now feel further away than it.

Nope, I never said that Eye of Flame was a deterrent to Vampires; get your facts straight...


What I did was point out your 100% false statement that Fire doesn't work on Vampires...

That statement of yours is utterly ridiculous and it's completely false...


So after I pointed out your false statement then you shifted your argument by saying that Fire doesn't deter people from going Vamp which is a different argument...

So yeah, you shifted goalposts...

OK. So your post specifically states Eye of Flame when paired with proximity detonation and VD is "so effective" because of all the Vampires. I asked in response why every Emperor/Empress is not a bomb blade then, which I noticed you have blatantly ignored.

Additionally I have not moved the goal posts. If fire damage/Eye of Flame was so effective as you say, then so many more people would not be going vampire. We express this in basic terms of logic as A+B=C.

If vampires are literally everywhere in Cyrodiil and PvE in general then obviously the penalties and adverse effects of being a vamp (fire damage) are not considered as such.

If you were to lock vampires out of the champion skill which allows you to stack points in to fire damage reduction and damage over time reduction then I am inclined to agree that it may do damage again.
This would be HIGHLY UNBALANCED so I would not suggest this and have therefore suggested buffing counterplay to vampires through a little used skill. I've done this by asking to give it back what it had originally and providing a small damage buff to this.


If fire was really effective then you would not have every PvP build on YouTube running it.

You wouldn't have every PvE build stating it's a MUST (or highly advisable in the case of one youtuber) to run.

PvE tanks are running it at stage 4 when fire is literally the MOST common mechanic in dungeons and trials. It gets run as a standard in vMA even though the most common damage mechanic found in the rounds of vMA is fire damage. Need I go on because all this does is further highlight the lack of balance.

Dude...just own the fact that you spoke incorrectly.

You stated that "Fire does not work" on Vampires...

That is utterly and completely ridiculous...



Don't try to misdirect...

Your argument crumbles because the above statement (which is a key point of your opening post) is completely false...


Admit it...

Fire absolutely works on Vampires...

If you build a Vampire that doesn't feature some aspect that significantly mitigates Fire Damage, then Magicka Dragon Knights, Skoria users, Grothdarr users, and Eye of Flame users have a significant advantage against you right out the gate...


You suggest locking Vamps out of CP's that reduce Fire Damage, but in PvP, people that use Elemental Attacks invest in the CP's that enhance Fire Attacks...

So you still end up with the Vamp having a 25% Fire Vulnerability (assuming that the Vamp and the Fire user invest the same amount of CP's into Fire Resist/Fire Enhancement) wether you have CP's or not...

Your 'solution' changes nothing...

If fire is so viable against vamps, why are vamps so common? You still refuse to answer this question. It is among the most common damage type in the game after all. Why are tanks running at stage 4 vampire in vet dungeons and trials full of Fire mechanics? Why is every streamer, youtuber etc. Saying vamp is a must and laughing at the idea of the fire damage which is negated by CP's and the undeath passive?

You still specifically avoided the question as well. If Eye of Flame, Proxy Det and VD are so effective against vampires (your EXACT words) where are all the bomb blade Emperors? I can't remember the last time I saw one and I play on multiple servers.

I made a point using the Champion tree. Please read that full statement again and tell me whether that was something I put forward as viable. Don't misquote me as it simply makes you look foolish when people go read it.

My solution is to buff a skill, giving more options in a game which preaches diversity. Is it a perfect fix? Probably not. Will it take skill to use it well? Yes. Is it the better than waiting for vampire to get nerfed when ZOS run the figures and realise that we have become Vampire Scrolls Online? Yes.

Buff counterplay = stop nerfs.

If you have to ask why there are so many Vamps then you haven't been reading your own thread...

That question has been answered here several times already...

So no, I didn't avoid answering anything, I just didn't want to repeat what has already been said...


As for where are the Bombblade Emps, they are on Ps4 Vivec NA...

Gooch is famous for his massive bombs in particular...


The only thing here that's foolish is your attempts to downplay the 25% Fire Weakness that Vamps have...

According to you, "Fire does not work" on Vamps...

That is specifically what's foolish here...

Apparently you have a hard time reading or answering questions so I'll ask them again but be EVEN more specific:

If this 25% more damage to fire is so significant then why are tanks being stage 4 vampires? If it's such a debuff as you claim then why would tanks gimp themselves with such a debuff?

You don't want to answer? It's cool that you don't want to type that CP's mitigate most of that and if your health goes low, Undeath does the rest. I mean, someone may see it and actually check the figures and realise that just like permablocking, this is also in need of adjustment or adjustment of the counterplay.

Why are there so many Vampires in PvP if fire is such a debuff? Are people gimping themselves intentionally? Wait, no because see above and then of course there is mist. The best friend of 1vX'ers, Tower farmers and zergs alike. Any time you're going to take damage, just mist away and reset the fight. No stopping it, no counterplay.
This is why there are so many Vampires, because it is FAR stronger and versatile than the alternative and your escape has no counterplay. As long as you have Magicka you can continue to mist away.

The reason you and others argue for vampires is because you like being able to escape without issue, without counterplay. Just remember that there was another skill that allowed this and they hit it with a BIG nerf hammer. Ask the sorcs abut their streak if unclear how hard they hit that.

Ask the stam DK's about Green dragon blood. Overperfoming skills get nerfed if there's no counterplay. Same with sets.

I'm trying to help towards build diversity and balance, you keep pushing for the status quo, the imbalance and cookie cutter builds. How many times does ZOS have to break your cookie cutters? How many overperfoming skills and sets will you defend and cry over when they get nerfed?

I prefer the buff to balance method. You appear to be putting your head in the sand and ignoring what is blatant. When nearly all the population are taking vamp because it's the "only option" then there is NO build diversity. It also shows how out of balance the 'option' is now.

Suppose the nerf they'll get will be "unfair" and "uncalled for" when it happens.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

You lost all cred right there...

One of the biggest reasons why Destro Ult/Proxy/Vicious Death is so effective in Cyrodiil is because of all the Vampires running around...

Just think about it...

Eye of Flame is already very strong; what happens when you add a 25% vulnerability to fire.

If the Destro ultimate was a deterrent then why are there SO MANY vamps.

Additionally your one method of counterplay involves running a single specific weapon and using its ultimate.

Not to mention running proximity detonation and VD. so to be efficient at removing Vampires you essentially have to be a bomb blade? Tell me, why isn't every Emperor a bomb blade then if it is so effective against vampires?

Oh yeah, because CP's and mist form. Tell me again how effective fire is.

You are shifting goal posts; you initially said that Fire Damage didn't work on Vampires...

This is 100% wrong as Vampires facing Eye of Flame and Magicka Dragonknights will agree with...

And Vampiric weaknesses do deter some from going Vamp; I personally know people who won't go Vamp because of how strong Dawnbreaker is against them...


As for all the Vamps in Cyrodiil, this has already been correctly addressed by others earlier in the thread...

Classes that lack mobility, in particular, are very dependent on it...

On my Magicka Templar, the difference between not having Vamp and having Vamp is night and day as pertains to mobility and my ability to escape a bad situation...

Without Vamp, I couldn't get away from a 2 legged dog...

I have not shifted the goal posts. You said that Eye of Flame was a deterrent to vampires. Or that you could effectively nuke them with Eye of Flame, Proxy Det and VD. I Simply countered your point with enough facts that you now feel further away than it.

Nope, I never said that Eye of Flame was a deterrent to Vampires; get your facts straight...


What I did was point out your 100% false statement that Fire doesn't work on Vampires...

That statement of yours is utterly ridiculous and it's completely false...


So after I pointed out your false statement then you shifted your argument by saying that Fire doesn't deter people from going Vamp which is a different argument...

So yeah, you shifted goalposts...

OK. So your post specifically states Eye of Flame when paired with proximity detonation and VD is "so effective" because of all the Vampires. I asked in response why every Emperor/Empress is not a bomb blade then, which I noticed you have blatantly ignored.

Additionally I have not moved the goal posts. If fire damage/Eye of Flame was so effective as you say, then so many more people would not be going vampire. We express this in basic terms of logic as A+B=C.

If vampires are literally everywhere in Cyrodiil and PvE in general then obviously the penalties and adverse effects of being a vamp (fire damage) are not considered as such.

If you were to lock vampires out of the champion skill which allows you to stack points in to fire damage reduction and damage over time reduction then I am inclined to agree that it may do damage again.
This would be HIGHLY UNBALANCED so I would not suggest this and have therefore suggested buffing counterplay to vampires through a little used skill. I've done this by asking to give it back what it had originally and providing a small damage buff to this.


If fire was really effective then you would not have every PvP build on YouTube running it.

You wouldn't have every PvE build stating it's a MUST (or highly advisable in the case of one youtuber) to run.

PvE tanks are running it at stage 4 when fire is literally the MOST common mechanic in dungeons and trials. It gets run as a standard in vMA even though the most common damage mechanic found in the rounds of vMA is fire damage. Need I go on because all this does is further highlight the lack of balance.

Dude...just own the fact that you spoke incorrectly.

You stated that "Fire does not work" on Vampires...

That is utterly and completely ridiculous...



Don't try to misdirect...

Your argument crumbles because the above statement (which is a key point of your opening post) is completely false...


Admit it...

Fire absolutely works on Vampires...

If you build a Vampire that doesn't feature some aspect that significantly mitigates Fire Damage, then Magicka Dragon Knights, Skoria users, Grothdarr users, and Eye of Flame users have a significant advantage against you right out the gate...


You suggest locking Vamps out of CP's that reduce Fire Damage, but in PvP, people that use Elemental Attacks invest in the CP's that enhance Fire Attacks...

So you still end up with the Vamp having a 25% Fire Vulnerability (assuming that the Vamp and the Fire user invest the same amount of CP's into Fire Resist/Fire Enhancement) wether you have CP's or not...

Your 'solution' changes nothing...

If fire is so viable against vamps, why are vamps so common? You still refuse to answer this question. It is among the most common damage type in the game after all. Why are tanks running at stage 4 vampire in vet dungeons and trials full of Fire mechanics? Why is every streamer, youtuber etc. Saying vamp is a must and laughing at the idea of the fire damage which is negated by CP's and the undeath passive?

You still specifically avoided the question as well. If Eye of Flame, Proxy Det and VD are so effective against vampires (your EXACT words) where are all the bomb blade Emperors? I can't remember the last time I saw one and I play on multiple servers.

I made a point using the Champion tree. Please read that full statement again and tell me whether that was something I put forward as viable. Don't misquote me as it simply makes you look foolish when people go read it.

My solution is to buff a skill, giving more options in a game which preaches diversity. Is it a perfect fix? Probably not. Will it take skill to use it well? Yes. Is it the better than waiting for vampire to get nerfed when ZOS run the figures and realise that we have become Vampire Scrolls Online? Yes.

Buff counterplay = stop nerfs.

If you have to ask why there are so many Vamps then you haven't been reading your own thread...

That question has been answered here several times already...

So no, I didn't avoid answering anything, I just didn't want to repeat what has already been said...


As for where are the Bombblade Emps, they are on Ps4 Vivec NA...

Gooch is famous for his massive bombs in particular...


The only thing here that's foolish is your attempts to downplay the 25% Fire Weakness that Vamps have...

According to you, "Fire does not work" on Vamps...

That is specifically what's foolish here...

Apparently you have a hard time reading or answering questions so I'll ask them again but be EVEN more specific:

If this 25% more damage to fire is so significant then why are tanks being stage 4 vampires? If it's such a debuff as you claim then why would tanks gimp themselves with such a debuff?

You don't want to answer? It's cool that you don't want to type that CP's mitigate most of that and if your health goes low, Undeath does the rest. I mean, someone may see it and actually check the figures and realise that just like permablocking, this is also in need of adjustment or adjustment of the counterplay.

Why are there so many Vampires in PvP if fire is such a debuff? Are people gimping themselves intentionally? Wait, no because see above and then of course there is mist. The best friend of 1vX'ers, Tower farmers and zergs alike. Any time you're going to take damage, just mist away and reset the fight. No stopping it, no counterplay.
This is why there are so many Vampires, because it is FAR stronger and versatile than the alternative and your escape has no counterplay. As long as you have Magicka you can continue to mist away.

The reason you and others argue for vampires is because you like being able to escape without issue, without counterplay. Just remember that there was another skill that allowed this and they hit it with a BIG nerf hammer. Ask the sorcs abut their streak if unclear how hard they hit that.

Ask the stam DK's about Green dragon blood. Overperfoming skills get nerfed if there's no counterplay. Same with sets.

I'm trying to help towards build diversity and balance, you keep pushing for the status quo, the imbalance and cookie cutter builds. How many times does ZOS have to break your cookie cutters? How many overperfoming skills and sets will you defend and cry over when they get nerfed?

I prefer the buff to balance method. You appear to be putting your head in the sand and ignoring what is blatant. When nearly all the population are taking vamp because it's the "only option" then there is NO build diversity. It also shows how out of balance the 'option' is now.

Suppose the nerf they'll get will be "unfair" and "uncalled for" when it happens.

Tanks in PvE can use CP's and specialized gear to offset the 25% vulnerability to Fire Damage; on my Magicka Templar, between Mighty Chudan and CP's my Fire Vulnerability is effectively reduced down to 4%...

As a result you can have the Vampiric benefits without suffering from Fire too much in PvE, HOWEVER, the gear/CP's expended towards dealing with Fire could be used for something else if one didn't go Vamp, so there is give and take here....

Thus its balanced...


As pertains to PvP, you ask the same question that's been answered several times already; at this point I think you are simply ignoring whats been said as pertains this as it goes against what you believe in...

People go Vamp primarily for the mobility, that's why you see it mostly on Magicka Dragon Knights and Templars...

These classes are stuck in the mud without Elusive Mist (especially with so many Snares in the game), so Vamp is practically a must for these classes in PvP...

On my Magicka Templar, if I had a good alternative for mobility, I would not go Vamp and I would be much stronger against Fire and not vulnerable to Dawnbreaker, but I have to accept these weaknesses because its the only way I can be viable in open world play...


As for there being no counterplay against Elusive Mist, this claim is almost as ridiculous as your crazy statement that "Fire does not work" on Vampires...

Its just not true...at all...and it demonstrates a lack of knowledge of the subject matter if you truly believe that.

During Mist Form you cant be Healed, cant Regen Magicka, still sustains damage, and thanks to bugs in the game, are still vulnerable to be snared and rooted...


I have been killed despite having Elusive Mist and have killed players who were attempting to Mist away; its not an instant "reset the fight" skill (certainly no where near as effective as resetting a fight as Cloak or Streak is)...

Elusive Mist gives you a chance to get away, but its highly dependent on many factors; some of which are beyond your control (such as your opponents skill level and/or determination to kill you)...


As a result, I believe that Vampire is fine as is...

Oh and btw, unless you have actual numbers to support another of your ridiculous claims (that nearly the entire populace is Vampires), then you are speaking with pure ignorance...

So, lets see your numbers that support your stance that "nearly the entire populace" is Vampires or concede that you are making crap up...