Make vampire hunters a thing again

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

OK, so in the early days of ESO there was a bit of balance between humans, vampires and werewolves in PvP, and the main reason for this was the ability to use certain fighters guild skills to punish vampires.

It was possible to make a vampire hunter build and have it be effective, using skills such as silver bolts to pin vamps. Then ZOS removed these aspects of the skills from these abilities and Cyrodiil is now just full of vampires.

My suggestion would be to revert the changes to silver bolts and the morphs to pin vampires down again as well as slightly boost it's overall damage. This would bring a small amount more balance to the game as currently there is no counterplay to vampires. Fire does not work, it hardly ever did.

Or give more options to help punish/damage vamps

Give back the option to make vampire hunter builds #freeupbuilddiversity #makevampsthinktwice

Opinons on this?

Fherrit

I really don't like how they implemented these two skill lines. It's obviously not a big enough of a problem for Vamps to take extra damage from fire or it wouldn't be so common in Cyro as to be near mandatory. Game Design 101: When everyone is doing the same thing and not experiencing the drawback you claim it is, then its obviously not a drawback and obviously too beneficial not to take. Given how they nerf all kinds of things that don't need it (gap closer damage for example) and don't nerf the things that do, makes me wonder what sort of coherency there is in the bigger picture of things.

TheDoomsdayMonster

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

OK, so in the early days of ESO there was a bit of balance between humans, vampires and werewolves in PvP, and the main reason for this was the ability to use certain fighters guild skills to punish vampires.

It was possible to make a vampire hunter build and have it be effective, using skills such as silver bolts to pin vamps. Then ZOS removed these aspects of the skills from these abilities and Cyrodiil is now just full of vampires.

My suggestion would be to revert the changes to silver bolts and the morphs to pin vampires down again as well as slightly boost it's overall damage. This would bring a small amount more balance to the game as currently there is no counterplay to vampires. Fire does not work, it hardly ever did.

Or give more options to help punish/damage vamps

Give back the option to make vampire hunter builds #freeupbuilddiversity #makevampsthinktwice

Opinons on this?

You lost all cred right there...

One of the biggest reasons why Destro Ult/Proxy/Vicious Death is so effective in Cyrodiil is because of all the Vampires running around...

Just think about it...

Eye of Flame is already very strong; what happens when you add a 25% vulnerability to it?

Koolio

Snipe with infused bow with Daedric Enchant without Torugs has a 9800 tooltip.

Your welcome

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

You lost all cred right there...

One of the biggest reasons why Destro Ult/Proxy/Vicious Death is so effective in Cyrodiil is because of all the Vampires running around...

Just think about it...

Eye of Flame is already very strong; what happens when you add a 25% vulnerability to fire.

If the Destro ultimate was a deterrent then why are there SO MANY vamps.

Additionally your one method of counterplay involves running a single specific weapon and using its ultimate.

Not to mention running proximity detonation and VD. so to be efficient at removing Vampires you essentially have to be a bomb blade? Tell me, why isn't every Emperor a bomb blade then if it is so effective against vampires?

Oh yeah, because CP's and mist form. Tell me again how effective fire is.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

Koolio wrote: »

Snipe with infused bow with Daedric Enchant without Torugs has a 9800 tooltip.

Your welcome

Again, Cyrodiil is full of snipers and yet wall to wall there is vampires. Effective as a deterrent? Don't think so.

Using a world skill which can effectively punish vampires for poor play and provide counterplay to the masses of vampires roaming Cyrodiil.

You'd have to go out of your way to slot it, which means not everyone will be able to due to build. This creates an in built balance to the skill but again hits vampires WITHOUT nerfing them.

Koolio

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Snipe with infused bow with Daedric Enchant without Torugs has a 9800 tooltip.

Your welcome

Again, Cyrodiil is full of snipers and yet wall to wall there is vampires. Effective as a deterrent? Don't think so.

Using a world skill which can effectively punish vampires for poor play and provide counterplay to the masses of vampires roaming Cyrodiil.

You'd have to go out of your way to slot it, which means not everyone will be able to due to build. This creates an in built balance to the skill but again hits vampires WITHOUT nerfing them.

It is very effective. Just most people don’t know about it. I’ve crit people in pvp for 7k-9k. Even on other builds that don’t snipe. I don’t disagree that the moves in fighters guild should be really beneficial against undead and are very lackluster. But I can assure you if 50% of the population used this glyph you would see a lot less vampires.

Glurin

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

OK, so in the early days of ESO there was a bit of balance between humans, vampires and werewolves in PvP, and the main reason for this was the ability to use certain fighters guild skills to punish vampires.

It was possible to make a vampire hunter build and have it be effective, using skills such as silver bolts to pin vamps. Then ZOS removed these aspects of the skills from these abilities and Cyrodiil is now just full of vampires.

Really? I hadn't heard that. Then again, I don't PvP a whole lot, so I usually just skim over those particular patch notes if I look at them at all.

KingYogi415

You mean the glitch where camo hunter would one-shot any vamp?

No thanks!

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

The whole point of the fighters guild in this game is to hunt and fight Daedra and undead. Thereby the skills for them should be designed with this in mind... and they were. Then the changes made to buff Stamina DPS overall, but especially in PvE took away the usefulness of most of the skills in PvP.

Additionally as someone who has tested multiple glyph options I know it can be strong. With the way things are, I can currently see two outcomes. 1 is that they improve counterplay to vampires overall. 2nd is that they nerf vampires and I don't want option 2. I'm sick of nerfs to big aspects of the game.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

KingYogi415 wrote: »

You mean the glitch where camo hunter would one-shot any vamp?

No thanks!

So you mention the one bug which was fixed. Not at all. Why would I want to exploit? I want more counterplay to vampires as it's plain to see that currently vampires have less than adequate counterplay. Which part of my post suggests I want anything other than that?

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

I'm wondering is ZOS tracks the populationsame in Cyrodiil for things such as vampire, werewolf etc. It seems highly likey that they do. I wonder if they were to post a percentage in here for a single CP campaign such as Vivec on any platform/server, would any of us be surprised at the figure? I'd reckon the percentage would be above 65% minimum if not over 75%.

@ZOS_Wrobel . Would you by any chance be able to confirm or deny this? Balance and counterplay are the things you deal with is it not?

dodgehopper_ESO

Make Vampire Hunters Great Again: MaVHGA!

VexingArcanist

If you don't play X you are gimped - all the sign you need to realize something needs balanced out.

Rohamad_Ali

Why so mean to vampires ? Thanks to best bonuses at stage four we are not even feeding anymore . It's a nocturnal hunger strike . Stop hunting us !

idk

I think you actually mean vamps and WWs, though WWs have the luxury of having to be in form to take additional damage.

Also, don't FG skills do additional damage to vamps? Granted less that before but it was over performing a bit iirc. I do recall in recent times being knocked down by the FG ult because I was a vampire.

@OneKhajiitCrimeWave You taqged the wrong person for that information. Wrobel does combat, not the overall picture of Cyrodiil. It does not really matter the numbers of who is what when working on combat "balance". BTW, it is from experience seeing who has actually posted usage stats in the forums as well.

Kode

I feel the 25% damage penalty on my vampire whenever I fight a magicka DK...

Just because vampire isn't damning doesn't mean it is broken. People take it because it has perks, with a few drawbacks that they accept.
I would like to see more of a trade off on skill lines, like vampires and werewolves unable to take Undaunted. Maybe build a faction system into the game... too many evil affiliations would prevent the use of good affiliations, ect. It is probably too late for that now.

Arobain

they are still definitely a thing, you just need to build to be one

GoodFella146

They are definitely a thing on the PS4 Vivic campaign. I've literally seen 12 players stealth camping 2 bodies around Fort Rayles for 35 minutes after Shtuhn got incinerated.

They have amulets that glow when vampires are around apparently.

dodgehopper_ESO

Kode wrote: »

I feel the 25% damage penalty on my vampire whenever I fight a magicka DK...

Just because vampire isn't damning doesn't mean it is broken. People take it because it has perks, with a few drawbacks that they accept.
I would like to see more of a trade off on skill lines, like vampires and werewolves unable to take Undaunted. Maybe build a faction system into the game... too many evil affiliations would prevent the use of good affiliations, ect. It is probably too late for that now.

I'd personally be happy if Vampires and Werewolves had their Fighters Guild skill line inaccessible. I'm not suggesting they can't be in the guild, only that they should not have access to the active skills, ultimate, and most of the passives (They should still have access to missions and Intimidation).

casparian

The reason there are so many vamps in Cyrodiil is that many players want the added sustain and many classes need the mobility Mist Form provides. (Undeath is nice, but I don't know many players who take Vampire specifically for that passive, nor is it key to builds in the way Mist Form is.) Taking 25% extra damage from the second-most prevalent damage element in the game and 20% extra damage from the most common ult in the game is a good tradeoff for that. Trust me, vampires don't feel as though they are getting the vampires pros without any significant cons.

cazlonb16_ESO

The added mobility vampire brings in particular is essential to a range of builds, basically magicka builds of certain classes would be nigh unplayable in PvP without it. I'd be all for fixing these builds so they don't rely on Mist Form, but ZOS has other ideas and as long as it doesn't happen, vamp will remain popular, despite the drawbacks.

Thermoluminescence

You filthy swine.

Vampires are your masters. Show some respect.

Asking for ways to kill us is sacrilege and you will suffer for your transgression.

TheDoomsdayMonster

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

You lost all cred right there...

One of the biggest reasons why Destro Ult/Proxy/Vicious Death is so effective in Cyrodiil is because of all the Vampires running around...

Just think about it...

Eye of Flame is already very strong; what happens when you add a 25% vulnerability to fire.

If the Destro ultimate was a deterrent then why are there SO MANY vamps.

Additionally your one method of counterplay involves running a single specific weapon and using its ultimate.

Not to mention running proximity detonation and VD. so to be efficient at removing Vampires you essentially have to be a bomb blade? Tell me, why isn't every Emperor a bomb blade then if it is so effective against vampires?

Oh yeah, because CP's and mist form. Tell me again how effective fire is.

You are shifting goal posts; you initially said that Fire Damage didn't work on Vampires...

This is 100% wrong as Vampires facing Eye of Flame and Magicka Dragonknights will agree with...

And Vampiric weaknesses do deter some from going Vamp; I personally know people who won't go Vamp because of how strong Dawnbreaker is against them...


As for all the Vamps in Cyrodiil, this has already been correctly addressed by others earlier in the thread...

Classes that lack mobility, in particular, are very dependent on it...

On my Magicka Templar, the difference between not having Vamp and having Vamp is night and day as pertains to mobility and my ability to escape a bad situation...

Without Vamp, I couldn't get away from a 2 legged dog...

Lokryn

I wish they would remove the added bonus to Vamps and WW from the Fighter's Guild skill line and then add another World Skill called Dawnguard or something that only non-vamps/WW can take that is effective against them. That way a player has three choices instead of everyone being vampires.

Qbiken

It would be nice to see figher´s guild abilities being more effective against daedric creatures and less effective against non-daedric creatures. Lower the damage of all FG-skills (so they don´t hit as hard against non-daedric creatures), but increase the passive significantly so they do a lot more damage against vampire/daedra.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

You lost all cred right there...

One of the biggest reasons why Destro Ult/Proxy/Vicious Death is so effective in Cyrodiil is because of all the Vampires running around...

Just think about it...

Eye of Flame is already very strong; what happens when you add a 25% vulnerability to fire.

If the Destro ultimate was a deterrent then why are there SO MANY vamps.

Additionally your one method of counterplay involves running a single specific weapon and using its ultimate.

Not to mention running proximity detonation and VD. so to be efficient at removing Vampires you essentially have to be a bomb blade? Tell me, why isn't every Emperor a bomb blade then if it is so effective against vampires?

Oh yeah, because CP's and mist form. Tell me again how effective fire is.

You are shifting goal posts; you initially said that Fire Damage didn't work on Vampires...

This is 100% wrong as Vampires facing Eye of Flame and Magicka Dragonknights will agree with...

And Vampiric weaknesses do deter some from going Vamp; I personally know people who won't go Vamp because of how strong Dawnbreaker is against them...


As for all the Vamps in Cyrodiil, this has already been correctly addressed by others earlier in the thread...

Classes that lack mobility, in particular, are very dependent on it...

On my Magicka Templar, the difference between not having Vamp and having Vamp is night and day as pertains to mobility and my ability to escape a bad situation...

Without Vamp, I couldn't get away from a 2 legged dog...

I have not shifted the goal posts. You said that Eye of Flame was a deterrent to vampires. Or that you could effectively nuke them with Eye of Flame, Proxy Det and VD. I Simply countered your point with enough facts that you now feel further away than it.

Additionally you say that going vampire is essential for some classes for sustain and maneuverability but again, if a specific things becomes ESSENTIAL for most players and classes to function then it is in need of balance. I will not sit and advocate nerfs so I advocate buffs against.

Vamps have so many advantages over werewolves that it's almost a joke to deal with. As a vampire you can have all the bonuses you want and run skills to effectively remove weaknesses, such as purge or purify to remove fire dots.

This is the point i'm making. Vamps are over performing and if there's no way to balance it then you know what happens in the end. You are effectively pointing a sign and saying nerf this right now. Tanks are running vampire in PvE and laughing at it. A place where fire is literally the MOST common mechanic in dungeons/trials.

I am simply asking for more counterplay to vampires as a whole, to naturally balance things out.

Goshua

More stamina tears. muhahaha

Chilly-McFreeze

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

You lost all cred right there...

One of the biggest reasons why Destro Ult/Proxy/Vicious Death is so effective in Cyrodiil is because of all the Vampires running around...

Just think about it...

Eye of Flame is already very strong; what happens when you add a 25% vulnerability to fire.

If the Destro ultimate was a deterrent then why are there SO MANY vamps.

Additionally your one method of counterplay involves running a single specific weapon and using its ultimate.

Not to mention running proximity detonation and VD. so to be efficient at removing Vampires you essentially have to be a bomb blade? Tell me, why isn't every Emperor a bomb blade then if it is so effective against vampires?

Oh yeah, because CP's and mist form. Tell me again how effective fire is.

Oh no, there are so many characters wearing X, using Y, being Z. Better nerf them for the sake of something!

Same as saying Hurricane is overperfoming because every Stam Sorc uses it.

But whatever, you know that your method of using fighters guild abilites (like silver bolts) demands to have a stamina set up for maximum effectivity?

LadyNalcarya

As if dawnbreaker isnt strong enough already.

OneKhajiitCrimeWave

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

You lost all cred right there...

One of the biggest reasons why Destro Ult/Proxy/Vicious Death is so effective in Cyrodiil is because of all the Vampires running around...

Just think about it...

Eye of Flame is already very strong; what happens when you add a 25% vulnerability to fire.

If the Destro ultimate was a deterrent then why are there SO MANY vamps.

Additionally your one method of counterplay involves running a single specific weapon and using its ultimate.

Not to mention running proximity detonation and VD. so to be efficient at removing Vampires you essentially have to be a bomb blade? Tell me, why isn't every Emperor a bomb blade then if it is so effective against vampires?

Oh yeah, because CP's and mist form. Tell me again how effective fire is.

Oh no, there are so many characters wearing X, using Y, being Z. Better nerf them for the sake of something!

Same as saying Hurricane is overperfoming because every Stam Sorc uses it.

But whatever, you know that your method of using fighters guild abilites (like silver bolts) demands to have a stamina set up for maximum effectivity?

We're not talking about a class using a class skill though are we? We are talking about a skill linew which is meant to be only an option being the ONLY option. Also, show me where in this thread I have asked for nerfs. I'll state it again for those who seem to not be able to read properly:

I DO NOT WANT VAMPIRES TO BE NERFED. I WANT COUNTERPLAY TO THEM BUFFED.

Did you manage to read it this time? If a huge percentage of the player based are running what is meant to be an option then obviously something is too strong with the option.... which is lack of counterplay.

Also, I am suggesting a Stamina set up to counter vampires. You guys are so adamant that Fire works for a Magicka character that stam needs it more. Can make some Magicka morphs if you really want though. Would just kinda prove the point of how ineffective fire is though.

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

As if dawnbreaker isnt strong enough already.

You may have noticed that I never made mention of Dawnbreaker because it is powerful as it is and does not need buffing. I'm trying for balance, not OP or broken.