Sets fine imo. Tired of every class being a healer and fights going on for 5+ minutes. They should reduce all healing across the board regardless of what they do with duroks.
Sets fine imo. Tired of every class being a healer and fights going on for 5+ minutes. They should reduce all healing across the board regardless of what they do with duroks.
yep, lets add permanent Extramajor defile 55% to the game for more effect.
It will be 30% Major+15% Minor+55% Extramajor = - 100% healing even without points into Befoul in CP syatem.
We want short fights. Ideal pvp!
This text is taken from one of Asayre´s threads on Tamrielfoundry:
The base healing formula for a healer using a variety of sources of Healing Done and Healing Taken and Healing Received is
The Tooltip value is increased by Restoration Master, Soul Siphoner, Major Mending and the Ritual Mundus. These add additively. Healing Done was tested with Blessed. Healing Taken was tested with Tormentor and Leeching sets. Healing Received was tested to be additive with Quick Recovery [Champion Point], Rapid Mending [Heavy Armour Passive], Minor Vitality [Swallow Soul & Coagulating Blood], Burning Heart [Draconic Power Passive] and Quick to Mend [Argonian Passive].
Example
A C160 Argonian cast Healing Springs. This character has 12% Healing Taken from the Tormentor and Leeching Sets and has 100 points in Blessed (25% Healing Done) and 100 points in Quick Recovery (16% Healing Received). In addition, this character is wearing 7 Heavy armour pieces (7% Healing Received), has the Minor Vitality buff, has a Draconic Power ability active and has 3 points in the Quick to Mend passive. This tooltip value includes the bonuses from Restoration Master, Major Mending and the Ritual Mundus.
Also want to add that this text comes from a thread that is over 2 years old, so can´t tell for sure if something has changed or not
Sets fine imo. Tired of every class being a healer and fights going on for 5+ minutes. They should reduce all healing across the board regardless of what they do with duroks.
I don’t get why people get so worked up over a 30% heal debuff. If you cant play with Major Defile, then you need to rework your build. There are so many sources of it. Duroks Bane is fine, since you can just avoid damaging that person if 1vX. And if you cant handle it 1v1 it is a L2P issue.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »I don’t get why people get so worked up over a 30% heal debuff. If you cant play with Major Defile, then you need to rework your build. There are so many sources of it. Duroks Bane is fine, since you can just avoid damaging that person if 1vX. And if you cant handle it 1v1 it is a L2P issue.
%30?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Do you even play on vivec?
Its pretty obvious that you either play no-cp or you don't even pvp at all.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »I don’t get why people get so worked up over a 30% heal debuff. If you cant play with Major Defile, then you need to rework your build. There are so many sources of it. Duroks Bane is fine, since you can just avoid damaging that person if 1vX. And if you cant handle it 1v1 it is a L2P issue.
%30?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Do you even play on vivec?
Its pretty obvious that you either play no-cp or you don't even pvp at all.
Yup, NO CP all the. But even in CP, my statement remains the exact same. Major Defile is still 30%. CP system can boost yes, but it can also boost healing to the same extent, so...
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »I don’t get why people get so worked up over a 30% heal debuff. If you cant play with Major Defile, then you need to rework your build. There are so many sources of it. Duroks Bane is fine, since you can just avoid damaging that person if 1vX. And if you cant handle it 1v1 it is a L2P issue.
%30?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Do you even play on vivec?
Its pretty obvious that you either play no-cp or you don't even pvp at all.
Yup, NO CP all the. But even in CP, my statement remains the exact same. Major Defile is still 30%. CP system can boost yes, but it can also boost healing to the same extent, so...
It doesnt work the same way. you can't boost your healing by %70.
my 16k vigor gets to 20k in cp campaign. thats how much CP helps me.
My %30 major defile gets to %50 in CP.
minor defile gets to %20 easily in CP.
that makes %70 healing reduction. Its absolutely bonkers.
So you can't boost your healing by the same extent.
Do you have any idea what its like to vigor+igneous shield, just to get 3k hp back?
I am avoiding vivec at all costs because of this bs.
@raasdal
Major/minor defile by itself can be countered, no doubt about that. I personally feel both healing reducing effects and healing boosting effects (such as those you mention in your post above) are way to overtuned and needs a rework.
Issue with Durok´s isn´t the defile-debuff itself, it´s just how easy it is to apply without no real draw-back. That´s the problem,
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »I don’t get why people get so worked up over a 30% heal debuff. If you cant play with Major Defile, then you need to rework your build. There are so many sources of it. Duroks Bane is fine, since you can just avoid damaging that person if 1vX. And if you cant handle it 1v1 it is a L2P issue.
%30?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Do you even play on vivec?
Its pretty obvious that you either play no-cp or you don't even pvp at all.
Yup, NO CP all the. But even in CP, my statement remains the exact same. Major Defile is still 30%. CP system can boost yes, but it can also boost healing to the same extent, so...
It doesnt work the same way. you can't boost your healing by %70.
my 16k vigor gets to 20k in cp campaign. thats how much CP helps me.
My %30 major defile gets to %50 in CP.
minor defile gets to %20 easily in CP.
that makes %70 healing reduction. Its absolutely bonkers.
So you can't boost your healing by the same extent.
Do you have any idea what its like to vigor+igneous shield, just to get 3k hp back?
I am avoiding vivec at all costs because of this bs.
Well, now you are just mixed everything together, and making assumptions that are just flat out wrong. You can easily increase healing by 70%, and your numbers for Debuff are just incorrect.
Firstly, you are now suddenly including Minor Defile as well. Needless to say, if you have both Minor and Major Defile on you, you are screwed in terms of healing. As you SHOULD.
Second, i did not talk about total Healing. I am talking about the specific Befoul star, to equalize healing / healing reduction to no CP.
Third, In you statement here, you are saying that Befoul star increases your Major Defile to 50%. First of all, that is not even possible. Befoul star can give you maximum of 55% increase on those 30%. So with 100 points (which you will be missing in other places as a result) your Major Defile will be at 46,5%. So you are effectively reducing your opponents healing, with 16,5% by spending 100 points.
Fourth, 70% Healing Increase is easily achieved. Just as easy as those 70% healing reduction you mention.
Now, lets look at the Healing stars. There are two of them. If you put 50 points in each, they will increase healing by 11,25% each. And these are multiplicative with both eachother AND any other healing bonus you have, if that healing does not fall in same category as either (Healing Taken, Healing Received, Healing Done). So at least multiplicative with one of them. BUT if we just for a second ignore all other stacking healing increases that will increase the effectiveness, just these two together, will effectively increase your healing by 24,3%.
So 100 points in CP is giving your opponen 16,5% reduction on your healing, while you gain 24,3% healing increase by your CP. Which was my point. Wether in CP or not, does not inherently make Major Defile any more powerful. Actually, it is the opposite. Healing is more powerful, when adding CP.
This works all the way up. If you include Major / Minor Mending and Argonian on top of above, you are sitting at well above 70% healing. This is why people are complaining about Healbots. Defile is the only way to cut them down.
You clearly have zero understanding for the balance in CP and Major / Minor Buffs. But sure. Being a StamDK with Vigor as your only heal, you will have a hard time dealing with being affected by both Major and Minor Defile. And if someone invested 100 points into Befoul star, you will be unable to heal anything. So L2P with that.
EDIT; Actually, come to think about it, StamDK is perfect for countering Defile (outside of purging it). Without any investment you have 20% passive healing increase (Dragon Blood + Passive). Add Major Mending (Igneous) for 25%. Add Healing Stars as per above, and you are sitting at at least 74% healing increase..... Now you can also Add Argonian on top of that, if you want that. Think you can quite easily reach 100% here, with a little tinkering.
Well, now you are just mixed everything together, and making assumptions that are just flat out wrong. You can easily increase healing by 70%, and your numbers for Debuff are just incorrect.
Healing/Mitigation in PVP is way too strong. Templars can purge and heal right through Duroks and loads of damage. NBs just cloak infinitely and run you out of resources. Sorcs can run circles around you or shield stack infinitely. Wardens can run circles around you and heal right through loads of damage as they pop their tree ults every 20 seconds. DKs can lock you down/immobilize you infinitely.
Every class has defensive mechanics that allow them to turtle up and require at least two people to kill them.
So really, defile by itself is not enough to kill a high skill level player. It takes executing a series of combos that add up to enough total pressure to earn the kill.
We really need to focus on how tanky players have gotten. Time to kill is way up, and if you don't have enough burst damage, then the fight resets and you start your combo progression all over again. The tanky meta is why it is so much harder to 1vX now.
It's important to have anti-tank sets in the game, or anti-tank mechanics or options in general. Be careful with what kind of nerfs as a community we ask for.
Wizards Riposte, in contrast, makes players super tanks because they take so much less damage, while Duroks tries to make players more killable.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »I don’t get why people get so worked up over a 30% heal debuff. If you cant play with Major Defile, then you need to rework your build. There are so many sources of it. Duroks Bane is fine, since you can just avoid damaging that person if 1vX. And if you cant handle it 1v1 it is a L2P issue.
%30?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Do you even play on vivec?
Its pretty obvious that you either play no-cp or you don't even pvp at all.
Yup, NO CP all the. But even in CP, my statement remains the exact same. Major Defile is still 30%. CP system can boost yes, but it can also boost healing to the same extent, so...
It doesnt work the same way. you can't boost your healing by %70.
my 16k vigor gets to 20k in cp campaign. thats how much CP helps me.
My %30 major defile gets to %50 in CP.
minor defile gets to %20 easily in CP.
that makes %70 healing reduction. Its absolutely bonkers.
So you can't boost your healing by the same extent.
Do you have any idea what its like to vigor+igneous shield, just to get 3k hp back?
I am avoiding vivec at all costs because of this bs.
Well, now you are just mixed everything together, and making assumptions that are just flat out wrong. You can easily increase healing by 70%, and your numbers for Debuff are just incorrect.
Firstly, you are now suddenly including Minor Defile as well. Needless to say, if you have both Minor and Major Defile on you, you are screwed in terms of healing. As you SHOULD.
Second, i did not talk about total Healing. I am talking about the specific Befoul star, to equalize healing / healing reduction to no CP.
Third, In you statement here, you are saying that Befoul star increases your Major Defile to 50%. First of all, that is not even possible. Befoul star can give you maximum of 55% increase on those 30%. So with 100 points (which you will be missing in other places as a result) your Major Defile will be at 46,5%. So you are effectively reducing your opponents healing, with 16,5% by spending 100 points.
Fourth, 70% Healing Increase is easily achieved. Just as easy as those 70% healing reduction you mention.
Now, lets look at the Healing stars. There are two of them. If you put 50 points in each, they will increase healing by 11,25% each. And these are multiplicative with both eachother AND any other healing bonus you have, if that healing does not fall in same category as either (Healing Taken, Healing Received, Healing Done). So at least multiplicative with one of them. BUT if we just for a second ignore all other stacking healing increases that will increase the effectiveness, just these two together, will effectively increase your healing by 24,3%.
So 100 points in CP is giving your opponen 16,5% reduction on your healing, while you gain 24,3% healing increase by your CP. Which was my point. Wether in CP or not, does not inherently make Major Defile any more powerful. Actually, it is the opposite. Healing is more powerful, when adding CP.
This works all the way up. If you include Major / Minor Mending and Argonian on top of above, you are sitting at well above 70% healing. This is why people are complaining about Healbots. Defile is the only way to cut them down.
You clearly have zero understanding for the balance in CP and Major / Minor Buffs. But sure. Being a StamDK with Vigor as your only heal, you will have a hard time dealing with being affected by both Major and Minor Defile. And if someone invested 100 points into Befoul star, you will be unable to heal anything. So L2P with that.
EDIT; Actually, come to think about it, StamDK is perfect for countering Defile (outside of purging it). Without any investment you have 20% passive healing increase (Dragon Blood + Passive). Add Major Mending (Igneous) for 25%. Add Healing Stars as per above, and you are sitting at at least 74% healing increase..... Now you can also Add Argonian on top of that, if you want that. Think you can quite easily reach 100% here, with a little tinkering.
I think you didn't actually fought against a defile build, and I also think you know very little about stamDKs, maybe you played one or not,
Even if you did play one I believe you never properly played it on cp campaign, not after the befoul changes.
but IF you think major defile just outdoes what CP adds to your vigor/rally, you know literally nothing. And seriously, what kind of stamDk uses dragon blood?
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »I don’t get why people get so worked up over a 30% heal debuff. If you cant play with Major Defile, then you need to rework your build. There are so many sources of it. Duroks Bane is fine, since you can just avoid damaging that person if 1vX. And if you cant handle it 1v1 it is a L2P issue.
%30?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Do you even play on vivec?
Its pretty obvious that you either play no-cp or you don't even pvp at all.
Yup, NO CP all the. But even in CP, my statement remains the exact same. Major Defile is still 30%. CP system can boost yes, but it can also boost healing to the same extent, so...
It doesnt work the same way. you can't boost your healing by %70.
my 16k vigor gets to 20k in cp campaign. thats how much CP helps me.
My %30 major defile gets to %50 in CP.
minor defile gets to %20 easily in CP.
that makes %70 healing reduction. Its absolutely bonkers.
So you can't boost your healing by the same extent.
Do you have any idea what its like to vigor+igneous shield, just to get 3k hp back?
I am avoiding vivec at all costs because of this bs.
Well, now you are just mixed everything together, and making assumptions that are just flat out wrong. You can easily increase healing by 70%, and your numbers for Debuff are just incorrect.
Firstly, you are now suddenly including Minor Defile as well. Needless to say, if you have both Minor and Major Defile on you, you are screwed in terms of healing. As you SHOULD.
Second, i did not talk about total Healing. I am talking about the specific Befoul star, to equalize healing / healing reduction to no CP.
Third, In you statement here, you are saying that Befoul star increases your Major Defile to 50%. First of all, that is not even possible. Befoul star can give you maximum of 55% increase on those 30%. So with 100 points (which you will be missing in other places as a result) your Major Defile will be at 46,5%. So you are effectively reducing your opponents healing, with 16,5% by spending 100 points.
Fourth, 70% Healing Increase is easily achieved. Just as easy as those 70% healing reduction you mention.
Now, lets look at the Healing stars. There are two of them. If you put 50 points in each, they will increase healing by 11,25% each. And these are multiplicative with both eachother AND any other healing bonus you have, if that healing does not fall in same category as either (Healing Taken, Healing Received, Healing Done). So at least multiplicative with one of them. BUT if we just for a second ignore all other stacking healing increases that will increase the effectiveness, just these two together, will effectively increase your healing by 24,3%.
So 100 points in CP is giving your opponen 16,5% reduction on your healing, while you gain 24,3% healing increase by your CP. Which was my point. Wether in CP or not, does not inherently make Major Defile any more powerful. Actually, it is the opposite. Healing is more powerful, when adding CP.
This works all the way up. If you include Major / Minor Mending and Argonian on top of above, you are sitting at well above 70% healing. This is why people are complaining about Healbots. Defile is the only way to cut them down.
You clearly have zero understanding for the balance in CP and Major / Minor Buffs. But sure. Being a StamDK with Vigor as your only heal, you will have a hard time dealing with being affected by both Major and Minor Defile. And if someone invested 100 points into Befoul star, you will be unable to heal anything. So L2P with that.
EDIT; Actually, come to think about it, StamDK is perfect for countering Defile (outside of purging it). Without any investment you have 20% passive healing increase (Dragon Blood + Passive). Add Major Mending (Igneous) for 25%. Add Healing Stars as per above, and you are sitting at at least 74% healing increase..... Now you can also Add Argonian on top of that, if you want that. Think you can quite easily reach 100% here, with a little tinkering.
I think you didn't actually fought against a defile build, and I also think you know very little about stamDKs, maybe you played one or not,
Even if you did play one I believe you never properly played it on cp campaign, not after the befoul changes.
but IF you think major defile just outdoes what CP adds to your vigor/rally, you know literally nothing. And seriously, what kind of stamDk uses dragon blood?
Wow. I just showed you all the Math, and outlined all your mistaken assumptions and feelings, and you still think your feelings are valid arguments in a discussion. Either that, or you are Trolling. in any case, GG, i give up.
@Ragnarock41 I think Cyrodil´s Crest has a balanced design (aside from being bugged). It gives you the option to have high uptime on Defile in a 1v1 maybe 1v2 situation, which is ok if you ask me.
But Durok´s Bane needs a rework. Make it on par with Cyrodil´s Crest. 5 seconds duration with a 5 seconds cooldown but instead of when causing damage it procs when taking damage. Then it becomes a strong set in a 1v1 situation but weaker the more opponents you´re facing.
Healing/Mitigation in PVP is way too strong. Templars can purge and heal right through Duroks and loads of damage. NBs just cloak infinitely and run you out of resources. Sorcs can run circles around you or shield stack infinitely. Wardens can run circles around you and heal right through loads of damage as they pop their tree ults every 20 seconds. DKs can lock you down/immobilize you infinitely.
Every class has defensive mechanics that allow them to turtle up and require at least two people to kill them.
So really, defile by itself is not enough to kill a high skill level player. It takes executing a series of combos that add up to enough total pressure to earn the kill.
We really need to focus on how tanky players have gotten. Time to kill is way up, and if you don't have enough burst damage, then the fight resets and you start your combo progression all over again. The tanky meta is why it is so much harder to 1vX now.
It's important to have anti-tank sets in the game, or anti-tank mechanics or options in general. Be careful with what kind of nerfs as a community we ask for.
Wizards Riposte, in contrast, makes players super tanks because they take so much less damage, while Duroks tries to make players more killable.
This entire thread is an l2p issue.