Rework please Durok's Bane set

Anethum

Problem in this set it have cooldown 1 second only with a debuff 10 seconds duration.
As I understand, its general cooldown, so vs 4 enemies, it's like 4 seconds cooldown (actually not it work every second but on one of them).
So up to 10 enemies are permanently debuffed (It's Major Defile guys...) without any actions for this...No words. Same reason, why instant procsets were toxic at summer in battlegrounds - bIg no counter effect without efforts.

It broke fight system, I don't understand how @ZOS_Wrobel don't see that, here or should be cooldown per target, which will be at least with cooldown = duration of this 100% applied debuff or something else.
This set debuff is impossible even to purge, it will be applied at the next second u removed it.
Also, it breaks nightblades out of cloak from dots every second it procs now. Its definitely not as intended
And people use it with Fasalia's permanent Minor defile (in next patch it will ne new monster set instead to have less health and more damage).
+ put 70+ cp into Defile in cp system... = permanent no heal for everyone.
Its too strong. Fasalia at least provides minor debuff...

Absolutly broken, bad balanced set, not interesting to use or to fight with someone in it.
But it's now on every step.
No heal for everyone. + no resourses for everyone because of cost poison (+30% increase stam/mag cost) pandemia.
Perfect Tamriel.
Fix this set please.
Cooldown on 1 target = duration of debuff will be enouch.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom please, do attention to this set. Such things should be adjusted at the moment u see the problem, not year after...I said here nothing new. Problem still exist not solved.

Dreth

Sets fine imo. Tired of every class being a healer and fights going on for 5+ minutes. They should reduce all healing across the board regardless of what they do with duroks.

Anethum

Dreth wrote: »

Sets fine imo. Tired of every class being a healer and fights going on for 5+ minutes. They should reduce all healing across the board regardless of what they do with duroks.

yep, lets add permanent Extramajor defile 55% to the game for more effect.
It will be 30% Major+15% Minor+55% Extramajor = - 100% healing even without points into Befoul in CP syatem.
We want short fights. Ideal pvp!

kaithuzar

lol

kaithuzar

But for serious they probably need to do both, increase the cooldown of the proc & decrease healing in pvp. All fights vs wardens & templars take minimum of 10 minutes & that doesn't matter if I'm fighting 1vs1 or 2vs1 because I kill the other guy then get to spend 10 minutes fighting OP heals

Qbiken

The problems with Durok´s Bane is:
a) The duration
b) Its cooldown

I personally think Durok´s Bane should work like a defensive version of Cyrodil´s crest.

(2 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(3 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken
(5 items) When you deal melee damage, you apply Major Defile to the enemy for 5 seconds, reducing their healing received by 30%. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

Durok´s Bane together with sets like Wizard´s Riposte have way to long duration. Reduce the duration and give it an increased cooldown.

Qbiken

diplomatt wrote: »

Dreth wrote: »

Sets fine imo. Tired of every class being a healer and fights going on for 5+ minutes. They should reduce all healing across the board regardless of what they do with duroks.

yep, lets add permanent Extramajor defile 55% to the game for more effect.
It will be 30% Major+15% Minor+55% Extramajor = - 100% healing even without points into Befoul in CP syatem.
We want short fights. Ideal pvp!

Here´s how healing is calculated:

Qbiken wrote: »

This text is taken from one of Asayre´s threads on Tamrielfoundry:


The base healing formula for a healer using a variety of sources of Healing Done and Healing Taken and Healing Received is



The Tooltip value is increased by Restoration Master, Soul Siphoner, Major Mending and the Ritual Mundus. These add additively. Healing Done was tested with Blessed. Healing Taken was tested with Tormentor and Leeching sets. Healing Received was tested to be additive with Quick Recovery [Champion Point], Rapid Mending [Heavy Armour Passive], Minor Vitality [Swallow Soul & Coagulating Blood], Burning Heart [Draconic Power Passive] and Quick to Mend [Argonian Passive].

Example

A C160 Argonian cast Healing Springs. This character has 12% Healing Taken from the Tormentor and Leeching Sets and has 100 points in Blessed (25% Healing Done) and 100 points in Quick Recovery (16% Healing Received). In addition, this character is wearing 7 Heavy armour pieces (7% Healing Received), has the Minor Vitality buff, has a Draconic Power ability active and has 3 points in the Quick to Mend passive. This tooltip value includes the bonuses from Restoration Master, Major Mending and the Ritual Mundus.



Also want to add that this text comes from a thread that is over 2 years old, so can´t tell for sure if something has changed or not

You can never reduce anyone´s healing to 0.

Ragnarock41

Dreth wrote: »

Sets fine imo. Tired of every class being a healer and fights going on for 5+ minutes. They should reduce all healing across the board regardless of what they do with duroks.

Except this set does nothing to solve the healer problem, and nor does the major defile. Its a debuff that screws up Dks and does nothing to totally balanced magicka templars with their 20k bols.

raasdal

I don’t get why people get so worked up over a 30% heal debuff. If you cant play with Major Defile, then you need to rework your build. There are so many sources of it. Duroks Bane is fine, since you can just avoid damaging that person if 1vX. And if you cant handle it 1v1 it is a L2P issue.

Ragnarock41

raasdal wrote: »

I don’t get why people get so worked up over a 30% heal debuff. If you cant play with Major Defile, then you need to rework your build. There are so many sources of it. Duroks Bane is fine, since you can just avoid damaging that person if 1vX. And if you cant handle it 1v1 it is a L2P issue.

%30?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Do you even play on vivec?

Its pretty obvious that you either play no-cp or you don't even pvp at all.

Now open a new tab and search ''befoul CP'' on google.

raasdal

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

I don’t get why people get so worked up over a 30% heal debuff. If you cant play with Major Defile, then you need to rework your build. There are so many sources of it. Duroks Bane is fine, since you can just avoid damaging that person if 1vX. And if you cant handle it 1v1 it is a L2P issue.

%30?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Do you even play on vivec?

Its pretty obvious that you either play no-cp or you don't even pvp at all.

Yup, NO CP all the way. But even in CP, my statement remains the exact same. Major Defile is still 30%. CP system can boost yes, but it can also boost healing to the same extent, so...

Ragnarock41

raasdal wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

I don’t get why people get so worked up over a 30% heal debuff. If you cant play with Major Defile, then you need to rework your build. There are so many sources of it. Duroks Bane is fine, since you can just avoid damaging that person if 1vX. And if you cant handle it 1v1 it is a L2P issue.

%30?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Do you even play on vivec?

Its pretty obvious that you either play no-cp or you don't even pvp at all.

Yup, NO CP all the. But even in CP, my statement remains the exact same. Major Defile is still 30%. CP system can boost yes, but it can also boost healing to the same extent, so...

It doesnt work the same way. you can't boost your healing by %70.

my 16k vigor gets to 20k in cp campaign. thats how much CP helps me.

My %30 major defile gets to %50 in CP.
minor defile gets to %20 easily in CP.

that makes %70 healing reduction. Its absolutely bonkers.

So you can't boost your healing by the same extent.

Do you have any idea what its like to vigor+igneous shield, just to get 3k hp back?

I am avoiding vivec at all costs because of this bs.

raasdal

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

I don’t get why people get so worked up over a 30% heal debuff. If you cant play with Major Defile, then you need to rework your build. There are so many sources of it. Duroks Bane is fine, since you can just avoid damaging that person if 1vX. And if you cant handle it 1v1 it is a L2P issue.

%30?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Do you even play on vivec?

Its pretty obvious that you either play no-cp or you don't even pvp at all.

Yup, NO CP all the. But even in CP, my statement remains the exact same. Major Defile is still 30%. CP system can boost yes, but it can also boost healing to the same extent, so...

It doesnt work the same way. you can't boost your healing by %70.

my 16k vigor gets to 20k in cp campaign. thats how much CP helps me.

My %30 major defile gets to %50 in CP.
minor defile gets to %20 easily in CP.

that makes %70 healing reduction. Its absolutely bonkers.

So you can't boost your healing by the same extent.

Do you have any idea what its like to vigor+igneous shield, just to get 3k hp back?

I am avoiding vivec at all costs because of this bs.

Well, now you are just mixed everything together, and making assumptions that are just flat out wrong. You can easily increase healing by 70%, and your numbers for Debuff are just incorrect.

Firstly, you are now suddenly including Minor Defile as well. Needless to say, if you have both Minor and Major Defile on you, you are screwed in terms of healing. As you SHOULD.

Second, i did not talk about total Healing. I am talking about the specific Befoul star, to equalize healing / healing reduction to no CP.

Third, In you statement here, you are saying that Befoul star increases your Major Defile to 50%. First of all, that is not even possible. Befoul star can give you maximum of 55% increase on those 30%. So with 100 points (which you will be missing in other places as a result) your Major Defile will be at 46,5%. So you are effectively reducing your opponents healing, with 16,5% by spending 100 points.

Fourth, 70% Healing Increase is easily achieved. Just as easy as those 70% healing reduction you mention.
Now, lets look at the Healing stars. There are two of them. If you put 50 points in each, they will increase healing by 11,25% each. And these are multiplicative with both eachother AND any other healing bonus you have, if that healing does not fall in same category as either (Healing Taken, Healing Received, Healing Done). So at least multiplicative with one of them. BUT if we just for a second ignore all other stacking healing increases that will increase the effectiveness, just these two together, will effectively increase your healing by 24,3%.

So 100 points in CP is giving your opponen 16,5% reduction on your healing, while you gain 24,3% healing increase by your CP. Which was my point. Wether in CP or not, does not inherently make Major Defile any more powerful. Actually, it is the opposite. Healing is more powerful, when adding CP.

This works all the way up. If you include Major / Minor Mending and Argonian on top of above, you are sitting at well above 70% healing. This is why people are complaining about Healbots. Defile is the only way to cut them down.

You clearly have zero understanding for the balance in CP and Major / Minor Buffs. But sure. Being a StamDK with Vigor as your only heal, you will have a hard time dealing with being affected by both Major and Minor Defile. And if someone invested 100 points into Befoul star, you will be unable to heal anything. So L2P with that.

EDIT; Actually, come to think about it, StamDK is perfect for countering Defile (outside of purging it). Without any investment you have 20% passive healing increase (Dragon Blood + Passive). Add Major Mending (Igneous) for 25%. Add Healing Stars as per above, and you are sitting at at least 74% healing increase..... Now you can also Add Argonian on top of that, if you want that. Think you can quite easily reach 100% here, with a little tinkering.

Qbiken

@raasdal

Major/minor defile by itself can be countered, no doubt about that. I personally feel both healing reducing effects and healing boosting effects (such as those you mention in your post above) are way to overtuned and needs a rework.

Issue with Durok´s isn´t the defile-debuff itself, it´s just how easy it is to apply without no real draw-back. That´s the problem,

olsborg

Duroks is op, no secret there. However they should be very careful with nerfing healing across the board, there are classes that dont have good healing as it is, only reason its doable is due to certain sets and CP. If they nerf it across the board they will effectively kill healing for some classes/builds.

raasdal

Qbiken wrote: »

@raasdal

Major/minor defile by itself can be countered, no doubt about that. I personally feel both healing reducing effects and healing boosting effects (such as those you mention in your post above) are way to overtuned and needs a rework.

Issue with Durok´s isn´t the defile-debuff itself, it´s just how easy it is to apply without no real draw-back. That´s the problem,

Point taken. If we see past the Defile hype, i could agree that maybe the set should not allow you to put it on so many people. But i do think it should be able to easily put up 100% uptime on single target, or maybe 2-3 people.

To me, the sacrifice of a 5 pcs. set does seem pretty significant. If i put on Duroks on my StamDK for example, i would have to unequip 7th. Legion, loosing more than 700 weapon damage and some healing.

Dreth

If you dont like defile, build for healing received. Just because you dont have room for that in your current build doesnt mean a counter doesnt exist. Also, to people saying it affects some classes more than others, its % based so it affects everyone EXACTLY the same.

Blockplars and healbots are an issue. Even with defile I dont even waste my time. If I see one in Cyro I move right past them. Duels are going on for 5+ minutes even with non healer classes resulting in stalemates. Its stupid. Get rid of defile if you want, then double the cost of healing abilities across the board.

Ragnarock41

raasdal wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

I don’t get why people get so worked up over a 30% heal debuff. If you cant play with Major Defile, then you need to rework your build. There are so many sources of it. Duroks Bane is fine, since you can just avoid damaging that person if 1vX. And if you cant handle it 1v1 it is a L2P issue.

%30?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Do you even play on vivec?

Its pretty obvious that you either play no-cp or you don't even pvp at all.

Yup, NO CP all the. But even in CP, my statement remains the exact same. Major Defile is still 30%. CP system can boost yes, but it can also boost healing to the same extent, so...

It doesnt work the same way. you can't boost your healing by %70.

my 16k vigor gets to 20k in cp campaign. thats how much CP helps me.

My %30 major defile gets to %50 in CP.
minor defile gets to %20 easily in CP.

that makes %70 healing reduction. Its absolutely bonkers.

So you can't boost your healing by the same extent.

Do you have any idea what its like to vigor+igneous shield, just to get 3k hp back?

I am avoiding vivec at all costs because of this bs.

Well, now you are just mixed everything together, and making assumptions that are just flat out wrong. You can easily increase healing by 70%, and your numbers for Debuff are just incorrect.

Firstly, you are now suddenly including Minor Defile as well. Needless to say, if you have both Minor and Major Defile on you, you are screwed in terms of healing. As you SHOULD.

Second, i did not talk about total Healing. I am talking about the specific Befoul star, to equalize healing / healing reduction to no CP.

Third, In you statement here, you are saying that Befoul star increases your Major Defile to 50%. First of all, that is not even possible. Befoul star can give you maximum of 55% increase on those 30%. So with 100 points (which you will be missing in other places as a result) your Major Defile will be at 46,5%. So you are effectively reducing your opponents healing, with 16,5% by spending 100 points.

Fourth, 70% Healing Increase is easily achieved. Just as easy as those 70% healing reduction you mention.
Now, lets look at the Healing stars. There are two of them. If you put 50 points in each, they will increase healing by 11,25% each. And these are multiplicative with both eachother AND any other healing bonus you have, if that healing does not fall in same category as either (Healing Taken, Healing Received, Healing Done). So at least multiplicative with one of them. BUT if we just for a second ignore all other stacking healing increases that will increase the effectiveness, just these two together, will effectively increase your healing by 24,3%.

So 100 points in CP is giving your opponen 16,5% reduction on your healing, while you gain 24,3% healing increase by your CP. Which was my point. Wether in CP or not, does not inherently make Major Defile any more powerful. Actually, it is the opposite. Healing is more powerful, when adding CP.

This works all the way up. If you include Major / Minor Mending and Argonian on top of above, you are sitting at well above 70% healing. This is why people are complaining about Healbots. Defile is the only way to cut them down.

You clearly have zero understanding for the balance in CP and Major / Minor Buffs. But sure. Being a StamDK with Vigor as your only heal, you will have a hard time dealing with being affected by both Major and Minor Defile. And if someone invested 100 points into Befoul star, you will be unable to heal anything. So L2P with that.

EDIT; Actually, come to think about it, StamDK is perfect for countering Defile (outside of purging it). Without any investment you have 20% passive healing increase (Dragon Blood + Passive). Add Major Mending (Igneous) for 25%. Add Healing Stars as per above, and you are sitting at at least 74% healing increase..... Now you can also Add Argonian on top of that, if you want that. Think you can quite easily reach 100% here, with a little tinkering.

I think you didn't actually fought against a defile build, and I also think you know very little about stamDKs, maybe you played one or not,
Even if you did play one I believe you never properly played it on cp campaign, not after the befoul changes.
but IF you think major defile just outdoes what CP adds to your vigor/rally, you know literally nothing. And seriously, what kind of stamDk uses dragon blood?

Anethum

raasdal wrote: »

Well, now you are just mixed everything together, and making assumptions that are just flat out wrong. You can easily increase healing by 70%, and your numbers for Debuff are just incorrect.

Uff, issue is absolutly not how strong is defile or healing recieved.
Issue is how Duroc's Bane works.

1 second cooldown man, on anyone who atacked durok's user...
For example, half-offencive set Cirodiil crest (which also provides major defile but on your target) even not close to this effect, it have 5 seconds cooldown, defile duration is 5 seconds and it works only on one target. U can't defile everyone. 1 target each 5 seconds. Fair, works pretty nice, i've done build on stamdk with that set to fill the gap if u want avoid using snb
But Durok's... Thats why it so op... made by Wrobel to get more "likes" idk

And It breaks nightblade's stealth if nb put a dot on duroc's user, every second which is a cherry on the piece of...let it cake.

Skoomah

Healing/Mitigation in PVP is way too strong. Templars can purge and heal right through Duroks and loads of damage. NBs just cloak infinitely and run you out of resources. Sorcs can run circles around you or shield stack infinitely. Wardens can run circles around you and heal right through loads of damage as they pop their tree ults every 20 seconds. DKs can lock you down/immobilize you infinitely.

Every class has defensive mechanics that allow them to turtle up and require at least two people to kill them.

So really, defile by itself is not enough to kill a high skill level player. It takes executing a series of combos that add up to enough total pressure to earn the kill.

We really need to focus on how tanky players have gotten. Time to kill is way up, and if you don't have enough burst damage, then the fight resets and you start your combo progression all over again. The tanky meta is why it is so much harder to 1vX now.

It's important to have anti-tank sets in the game, or anti-tank mechanics or options in general. Be careful with what kind of nerfs as a community we ask for.

Wizards Riposte, in contrast, makes players super tanks because they take so much less damage, while Duroks tries to make players more killable.

BroanBeast1215

the major defile from Duroks gets reapplied almost instantly after being purged

from an attackers viewpoint you will run OOP spamming Extended ritual and you're still gonna have major defile on you as long as you're damaging the person wearing it.

Dreth

Skoomah wrote: »

Healing/Mitigation in PVP is way too strong. Templars can purge and heal right through Duroks and loads of damage. NBs just cloak infinitely and run you out of resources. Sorcs can run circles around you or shield stack infinitely. Wardens can run circles around you and heal right through loads of damage as they pop their tree ults every 20 seconds. DKs can lock you down/immobilize you infinitely.

Every class has defensive mechanics that allow them to turtle up and require at least two people to kill them.

So really, defile by itself is not enough to kill a high skill level player. It takes executing a series of combos that add up to enough total pressure to earn the kill.

We really need to focus on how tanky players have gotten. Time to kill is way up, and if you don't have enough burst damage, then the fight resets and you start your combo progression all over again. The tanky meta is why it is so much harder to 1vX now.

It's important to have anti-tank sets in the game, or anti-tank mechanics or options in general. Be careful with what kind of nerfs as a community we ask for.

Wizards Riposte, in contrast, makes players super tanks because they take so much less damage, while Duroks tries to make players more killable.

This entire thread is an l2p issue.

Domander

Dreth wrote: »

Sets fine imo. Tired of every class being a healer and fights going on for 5+ minutes. They should reduce all healing across the board regardless of what they do with duroks.

Sure, damage too.

Anethum

Dreth wrote: »

This entire thread is an l2p issue.

Dreth, l2p to understand what about thread is.

Anethum

Skoomah wrote: »

while Duroks tries to make players more killable.

Yup, everyone around more killable.
I've got a brilliant idea here - Zenimax should add this debuff to battlespirit. Instead exact balance, lets debuff everyone

raasdal

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

I don’t get why people get so worked up over a 30% heal debuff. If you cant play with Major Defile, then you need to rework your build. There are so many sources of it. Duroks Bane is fine, since you can just avoid damaging that person if 1vX. And if you cant handle it 1v1 it is a L2P issue.

%30?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Do you even play on vivec?

Its pretty obvious that you either play no-cp or you don't even pvp at all.

Yup, NO CP all the. But even in CP, my statement remains the exact same. Major Defile is still 30%. CP system can boost yes, but it can also boost healing to the same extent, so...

It doesnt work the same way. you can't boost your healing by %70.

my 16k vigor gets to 20k in cp campaign. thats how much CP helps me.

My %30 major defile gets to %50 in CP.
minor defile gets to %20 easily in CP.

that makes %70 healing reduction. Its absolutely bonkers.

So you can't boost your healing by the same extent.

Do you have any idea what its like to vigor+igneous shield, just to get 3k hp back?

I am avoiding vivec at all costs because of this bs.

Well, now you are just mixed everything together, and making assumptions that are just flat out wrong. You can easily increase healing by 70%, and your numbers for Debuff are just incorrect.

Firstly, you are now suddenly including Minor Defile as well. Needless to say, if you have both Minor and Major Defile on you, you are screwed in terms of healing. As you SHOULD.

Second, i did not talk about total Healing. I am talking about the specific Befoul star, to equalize healing / healing reduction to no CP.

Third, In you statement here, you are saying that Befoul star increases your Major Defile to 50%. First of all, that is not even possible. Befoul star can give you maximum of 55% increase on those 30%. So with 100 points (which you will be missing in other places as a result) your Major Defile will be at 46,5%. So you are effectively reducing your opponents healing, with 16,5% by spending 100 points.

Fourth, 70% Healing Increase is easily achieved. Just as easy as those 70% healing reduction you mention.
Now, lets look at the Healing stars. There are two of them. If you put 50 points in each, they will increase healing by 11,25% each. And these are multiplicative with both eachother AND any other healing bonus you have, if that healing does not fall in same category as either (Healing Taken, Healing Received, Healing Done). So at least multiplicative with one of them. BUT if we just for a second ignore all other stacking healing increases that will increase the effectiveness, just these two together, will effectively increase your healing by 24,3%.

So 100 points in CP is giving your opponen 16,5% reduction on your healing, while you gain 24,3% healing increase by your CP. Which was my point. Wether in CP or not, does not inherently make Major Defile any more powerful. Actually, it is the opposite. Healing is more powerful, when adding CP.

This works all the way up. If you include Major / Minor Mending and Argonian on top of above, you are sitting at well above 70% healing. This is why people are complaining about Healbots. Defile is the only way to cut them down.

You clearly have zero understanding for the balance in CP and Major / Minor Buffs. But sure. Being a StamDK with Vigor as your only heal, you will have a hard time dealing with being affected by both Major and Minor Defile. And if someone invested 100 points into Befoul star, you will be unable to heal anything. So L2P with that.

EDIT; Actually, come to think about it, StamDK is perfect for countering Defile (outside of purging it). Without any investment you have 20% passive healing increase (Dragon Blood + Passive). Add Major Mending (Igneous) for 25%. Add Healing Stars as per above, and you are sitting at at least 74% healing increase..... Now you can also Add Argonian on top of that, if you want that. Think you can quite easily reach 100% here, with a little tinkering.

I think you didn't actually fought against a defile build, and I also think you know very little about stamDKs, maybe you played one or not,
Even if you did play one I believe you never properly played it on cp campaign, not after the befoul changes.
but IF you think major defile just outdoes what CP adds to your vigor/rally, you know literally nothing. And seriously, what kind of stamDk uses dragon blood?

Wow. I just showed you all the Math, and outlined all your mistaken assumptions and feelings, and you still think your feelings are valid arguments in a discussion. Either that, or you are Trolling. in any case, GG, i give up.

Ragnarock41

raasdal wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

I don’t get why people get so worked up over a 30% heal debuff. If you cant play with Major Defile, then you need to rework your build. There are so many sources of it. Duroks Bane is fine, since you can just avoid damaging that person if 1vX. And if you cant handle it 1v1 it is a L2P issue.

%30?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Do you even play on vivec?

Its pretty obvious that you either play no-cp or you don't even pvp at all.

Yup, NO CP all the. But even in CP, my statement remains the exact same. Major Defile is still 30%. CP system can boost yes, but it can also boost healing to the same extent, so...

It doesnt work the same way. you can't boost your healing by %70.

my 16k vigor gets to 20k in cp campaign. thats how much CP helps me.

My %30 major defile gets to %50 in CP.
minor defile gets to %20 easily in CP.

that makes %70 healing reduction. Its absolutely bonkers.

So you can't boost your healing by the same extent.

Do you have any idea what its like to vigor+igneous shield, just to get 3k hp back?

I am avoiding vivec at all costs because of this bs.

Well, now you are just mixed everything together, and making assumptions that are just flat out wrong. You can easily increase healing by 70%, and your numbers for Debuff are just incorrect.

Firstly, you are now suddenly including Minor Defile as well. Needless to say, if you have both Minor and Major Defile on you, you are screwed in terms of healing. As you SHOULD.

Second, i did not talk about total Healing. I am talking about the specific Befoul star, to equalize healing / healing reduction to no CP.

Third, In you statement here, you are saying that Befoul star increases your Major Defile to 50%. First of all, that is not even possible. Befoul star can give you maximum of 55% increase on those 30%. So with 100 points (which you will be missing in other places as a result) your Major Defile will be at 46,5%. So you are effectively reducing your opponents healing, with 16,5% by spending 100 points.

Fourth, 70% Healing Increase is easily achieved. Just as easy as those 70% healing reduction you mention.
Now, lets look at the Healing stars. There are two of them. If you put 50 points in each, they will increase healing by 11,25% each. And these are multiplicative with both eachother AND any other healing bonus you have, if that healing does not fall in same category as either (Healing Taken, Healing Received, Healing Done). So at least multiplicative with one of them. BUT if we just for a second ignore all other stacking healing increases that will increase the effectiveness, just these two together, will effectively increase your healing by 24,3%.

So 100 points in CP is giving your opponen 16,5% reduction on your healing, while you gain 24,3% healing increase by your CP. Which was my point. Wether in CP or not, does not inherently make Major Defile any more powerful. Actually, it is the opposite. Healing is more powerful, when adding CP.

This works all the way up. If you include Major / Minor Mending and Argonian on top of above, you are sitting at well above 70% healing. This is why people are complaining about Healbots. Defile is the only way to cut them down.

You clearly have zero understanding for the balance in CP and Major / Minor Buffs. But sure. Being a StamDK with Vigor as your only heal, you will have a hard time dealing with being affected by both Major and Minor Defile. And if someone invested 100 points into Befoul star, you will be unable to heal anything. So L2P with that.

EDIT; Actually, come to think about it, StamDK is perfect for countering Defile (outside of purging it). Without any investment you have 20% passive healing increase (Dragon Blood + Passive). Add Major Mending (Igneous) for 25%. Add Healing Stars as per above, and you are sitting at at least 74% healing increase..... Now you can also Add Argonian on top of that, if you want that. Think you can quite easily reach 100% here, with a little tinkering.

I think you didn't actually fought against a defile build, and I also think you know very little about stamDKs, maybe you played one or not,
Even if you did play one I believe you never properly played it on cp campaign, not after the befoul changes.
but IF you think major defile just outdoes what CP adds to your vigor/rally, you know literally nothing. And seriously, what kind of stamDk uses dragon blood?

Wow. I just showed you all the Math, and outlined all your mistaken assumptions and feelings, and you still think your feelings are valid arguments in a discussion. Either that, or you are Trolling. in any case, GG, i give up.

Except, your math is deeply wrong, and you are making your calculations based on a perfect world where you have %100 uptime on major mending and you can dumb your much needed points into healing instead of doing damage. Which goes to show how unaware you are.

So let me get this clear for the last time, not for you, but for anyone else reading.

Healing in PvP needs counterplay. Yes befoul is good in theory, but bad in actual gameplay. Its about how easy it is to apply defile.
Snipe, Incap, standart, warden flowers, reverb bash. these are mostly fine. These requires players to actually do something interactive to apply the debuff.

But sets like durok, Cyrodiil crest, fasalla etc are used by those zergs with 5-6 healers so they heal more, their enemies heal less.

Tell me again why should I get major defiled becuse my volatile armor hit a fasallas + durok's defile bot that is useless outside of debuffing everyone? Is this what you expect from a skill based game?

and why does templars, which is who befoul is intended to counter, has access to the only counterplay?

This forces everyone to run templars in their groups, this isn't making templar heal bots disappear, it makes them neccessary to have a change to even heal.

It makes the game purge or GTFO, and its ugly, it needs to go.

raasdal

Ah, nvm. im out

Qbiken

@Ragnarock41 I think Cyrodil´s Crest has a balanced design (aside from being bugged). It gives you the option to have high uptime on Defile in a 1v1 maybe 1v2 situation, which is ok if you ask me.

But Durok´s Bane needs a rework. Make it on par with Cyrodil´s Crest. 5 seconds duration with a 5 seconds cooldown but instead of when causing damage it procs when taking damage. Then it becomes a strong set in a 1v1 situation but weaker the more opponents you´re facing.

Ragnarock41

Qbiken wrote: »

@Ragnarock41 I think Cyrodil´s Crest has a balanced design (aside from being bugged). It gives you the option to have high uptime on Defile in a 1v1 maybe 1v2 situation, which is ok if you ask me.

But Durok´s Bane needs a rework. Make it on par with Cyrodil´s Crest. 5 seconds duration with a 5 seconds cooldown but instead of when causing damage it procs when taking damage. Then it becomes a strong set in a 1v1 situation but weaker the more opponents you´re facing.

yeah, crest can be definitely avoided, but not duroks.

I mean its stupid just because I accidentally touch the guy I get defiled for almost %70.

A cooldown could solve the issue. or limit how many people can be defiled by it somehow.

BroanBeast1215

Dreth wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

Healing/Mitigation in PVP is way too strong. Templars can purge and heal right through Duroks and loads of damage. NBs just cloak infinitely and run you out of resources. Sorcs can run circles around you or shield stack infinitely. Wardens can run circles around you and heal right through loads of damage as they pop their tree ults every 20 seconds. DKs can lock you down/immobilize you infinitely.

Every class has defensive mechanics that allow them to turtle up and require at least two people to kill them.

So really, defile by itself is not enough to kill a high skill level player. It takes executing a series of combos that add up to enough total pressure to earn the kill.

We really need to focus on how tanky players have gotten. Time to kill is way up, and if you don't have enough burst damage, then the fight resets and you start your combo progression all over again. The tanky meta is why it is so much harder to 1vX now.

It's important to have anti-tank sets in the game, or anti-tank mechanics or options in general. Be careful with what kind of nerfs as a community we ask for.

Wizards Riposte, in contrast, makes players super tanks because they take so much less damage, while Duroks tries to make players more killable.

This entire thread is an l2p issue.

I like how you come into almost every thread and try to discredit others discussions with things like "L2P" and other strawman arguments; if you cant argue your point without ad hominem attacks and other logical fallacies, just don't post? this board is meant to be constructive discussions and debates your toxicity is unwelcome.