What Trade System Would You Prefer?

Emencie · January 2017

Global Auction House

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

I quite simply want something that is inclusive of all people.

A while ago I suggested that each zone should have it's own Trader (Just One) where everyone can come a put things up for sale.

This would of work wonderfully before 1T as it would mean in the Starter Area you would have low levels putting Low Level gear for sale, so as you progressed in levels you would of been able to find gear matching your level, which we all know is impossible in the current system.

I don't believe Guild Traders work for Several reasons;

Inclusive, they are not, as there is a finite number of people who can trade.
Lack of variety, you can only list 30 items and you pay a tax you don't get back, so you only sell what you know will sell.
Convenience, no one is, as many mention, going to go round 170 traders to check everything. This also makes some Trader completely pointless.
Guild monopoly, we know there are now guildes which are multiples of the same guild. Some of these guilds are using there position to remove competition
Supply and Demand is failing because there is only a limited people able to supply the demand.

But I don't think ZOS have the ability to change the system, it would be nice if ZOS would let us know then we could avoid these posts.

@Cherryblossom

I honestly hear what you and others are saying who suggest this is what you want.

I comprehend the logic behind it all but I disagree that it's the experience that you want.

It comes with pros and cons and from my point of view, the cons outweight the pros as you wrote above.

I do think what better aligns with what you and many others want could be achieved better (not the same) by doing the following:

1. Each current trader spot would have 5 different guild slots rather than one. (A guild can't win a spot in that zone more than twice in 4 weeks, not a month but a rolling 4 weeks)
2. For guilds who don't have traders, they can link up to 5 more guild stores without the need of joining another guild

This effectively opens up everyone to more stores whether they use a trader or not. It also doesn't destroy the economy and keeps the negative impacts to any more open markets to a minimum as well as being easily tracked.

Just opening up stuff and abandoning the systems isn't as simple as just changing things. You'd effectively destroy and loose a lot as well as people

What other major important concept that's being ignored is the value of a guild if a global or zone auction house or an open market trader were added.

See I do also understand that many are saying. I shouldn't have to join a guild to participate in the market. No you don't BUT the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines.

A lot of you really want a single player game with some multiplayer modes....I'm fighting against those ideas and some of that is contained in the comments of others.

Your suggested system fails to address the concerns about the present system because it is still dependent on guild membership.

Your claim that "the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines" is entirely subjective, and really isn't proven by the success of MMOs generally - none of which, apart from this one, require guild membership as a pre-requisite of participating in the trading system. Personally, I'd be very happy to interact with other players through trading but as I have no interest in guilds (although I interact with other players in other ways) and cannot in any event sustain the level of trading that would allow me to stay in a trading guild that option for interaction is closed to me.

This really doesn't need to be turned into yet another "old chestnut" discussion about soloing in MMOs. However, games that force one playstyle or another tend to be the least successful ones, these days it's all about developers catering for everyone in a mainstream game, less so in a niche title with limited appeal and ambition, and players then having the freedom of choice as to how they approach the game.

My real concern is that the core elements of any MMO should be open to all and not subject to artificial barriers such as guild membership, level, alliance, race or class etc. Trading is just such a core element and just as I'm sure we could agree that it shouldn't be restricted according to the character's level, alliance, race or class, I also think it shouldn't be restricted according to whether you belong to a guild or not - and under the current system further restricted according to whether or not the guild has bid successfully for a trader.

Keep the present system by all means, but open it up by having a few NPC traders who can take listings from those not in a successful trading guild, subject to a strict limit on the number of items that can be listed by a player and with a higher commission rate that would be split between the guilds trading in those locations. The casual trader would be happy, the hardcore trader would be happy, and the trading guilds would also be happy. Casual traders would benefit from the opportunity to sell the odd surplus item, the trading guilds would benefit from them doing so, and the hardcore traders would still have every reason to belong to trading guilds. It's a win/win situation, and one which doesn't force any particular playstyle on anyone.

@Tandor

Then by design since closed beta most of this game doesn't fit your desires.

Shrug it's not even worth discussing cause to suggest that the core design isn't what this person or that person wants begs the question....are you sure cause you're still here and there's been more added features in the direction than against.

It's not a win-win at all which is why it's designed in the way it still exists. With all the major changes....at its core...it's the same game with QoL updates

I've played the game since PC launch and it has fitted my desires in every single respect except the trading system.

Beyond your first sentence, however, I've really no idea what you're saying. Certainly nothing that addresses my suggested improvement to the existing trading system.

@Tandor

Simply put...TES series and it's stories and centered around guilds and how their involvement and influences create stores tales and experiences all placed against deadra

To suggest that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of the game...based on the series but more accurately based on the very early 2012 talks of the design which isn't a change....you're talking about making it some other game.

Everything should not be open....that's not even what many want. People just want to sale things and find places to buy more efficiently.

Please tell me where I said that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of the game, or where I said everything should be open.

You say that people just want to sell things, and I agree. They should be able to do so without playstyle conditions attached, and my suggestion would enable that without in any way impacting on the existing guilds other than by generating some additional revenue for them.

@Tandor

Your written words in context say point blank that so sorry if I missunderstood what you wrote.

In bold, I put it below with no edits from what you just wrote. How should I have interpreted that whole paragraph?

"My real concern is that the core elements of any MMO should be open to all and not subject to artificial barriers such as guild membership, level, alliance, race or class etc. Trading is just such a core element and just as I'm sure we could agree that it shouldn't be restricted according to the character's level, alliance, race or class, I also think it shouldn't be restricted according to whether you belong to a guild or not - and under the current system further restricted according to whether or not the guild has bid successfully for a trader."

I'm pretty sure what he means by that is that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of trade.

In fact because of the trade system, and needing to have a guild to access only 500 people to sell and trade with, not to mention the way the top merchant guilds are run, I would say that having a guild is less important to ESO than any other MMO I've ever played.

My character was in 5 trade guilds which amounted to 5 guilds of nameless faceless people I simply used to make gold, while the leadership used us all to make gold. Now that I have abandoned the trade system, I have no guilds... Where in other games my characters are in a single guild with people I enjoy playing with rather than people I need to use for gold, ESO guilds are almost useless to me outside of gaining gold.

@Emencie
I'd rather let ppl explain themselves. We can only go off what's written.

If you scroll up you'd see I've addressed the issue but the desires not to need to be in a guild at all....that's a whole different topic

In my opinion that's also a whole different game desire that exists in many forms in good qualities

You have some good ideas, but none of them address most of our biggest problem with the trade system in ESO. If I can explain with examples...

In WoW when you create a character, there is a moderate walk (at level 1) to the nearest major city. Once you have arrived finding the Auction house is as simple as asking an NPC for directions. Once there you have access to a trading hub that lets you access goods to buy from, or sell to every other player in the server.

In SWTOR when you create a character, you are on a planet with a few hours of tutorial questing that teaches you the basics of the game. Afterwards, you are taken to a space station for your faction. A quick look at the map details the galactic trade network, where you now have access to a trading hub that lets you buy from, or sell to every other player on your server/faction.

In FF14 when you get a character to level 17, you receive a quest detailing how to obtain a retainer, in that quest chain you also learn how to place items on the market board using this retainer. Once you have customized your new slave... Err... Retainer... You now have access to buying from, and selling to, every other player in the server.

In Eve online when you create a new pilot you are one jump away from the nearest station, after a very short tutorial that does not in any way prepare you for the most wretched hive of scum and villainy you have just joined, you can dock at this station where you can post buy and sell orders on the market, which is available to every player in the entire game.

In Guild wars 2 once you create a character you have a very short tutorial which dumps you into the main city. A look at the map will show you where the auction house is, and you can then start to buy and sell with every other player in the game.

Some of these options have player controlled aspects, like space stations in Eve that are owned by certain corps, while others are completely owned and financed by NPCs like WoW. Some of them deliver goods directly to your inventory from anywhere in the world, Some you have to pick up your goods from the location they were posted, and some mail you your goods. Some take a large cut of your money when listing, Some let you list for free or cheap.

But the thing they all have in common is simple. Everyone has trade access to their entire server of players from very easy to reach locations and can opt into trade with little trouble. This is what the people who are for an AH system want.

And it's hard to understand why people are against it because we know for a fact that the system works well, as all of the games I listed and many more have one. None of those games have a crumbling economy, and many of them have a more sustainable economy than ESO some of which are completely player controlled. So we know for a fact it works fine.

@Emencie

Those games by server design aren't nearly the same as ESO. Why some are against a global AH

Me specifically is due to actual observations and experiences in a few of the games you listed above. While each game is different you're identifying games that had by design a drop rate and drop item type which was intended to be shared or sold. Not all items obviously but the intent in some of those was based on restrictions.

In most if not all (I haven't played....all of them) you couldn't complete your profession or interact with a BoP drop. Many of those games also have limited access meaning or comparing to ESO it would be as if ESO mega servers had factions completely seperated.

Take for instance if for PvE, only one third of the entire map was accessible. Then you'd have traders where they are but they wouldn't be spread out because they are in towns you frequently visit as you level up (pre One Tamriel)

The games population (arguably) is a lot lower at one given time compared to many different times of those you've listed.

What I've experienced, been a part of and observed are strategies and schemes usually by means of add-ons and third party guides with or without add-ons of how to drill down on an item or group of items and pool resources in order to corner markets.

That happens here but it's in such small groups it's not a detriment to the overall economy or population.

See if you were to offer global AH, or open market trading where people without affiliations could list, buy and sale items whether online or offline, because of the above, you're opening up the game to negative schemes.

I'm not saying and most others aren't arguing that more people don't want access or that more people wouldn't be able to sale things with more access alone. We are saying that more access comes with many other factors.

If you actually look at many of those other games, they don't actually have open markets either.

What you're seeing is within the limited closed structure, it seems open to everyone you see, but it's not open to everyone in America or everyone in EU on one platform.

To better explain what we hear when you ask for a global AH or an open access market, using the example of WoW would be as if you asked Blizzard to open up the auction house to all Alliance, Horde and combined every US East servers AH into one

Literally and not figuratively, that's what you all are asking for but in reading that's not actually what everyone means. Maybe it is what you mean but I'd argue that many of us can agree that it's not what would be best.

Especially considering there are no barriers

Pretty much.

While the WoW example is a little much seeing how many players are involved which is more than any other game we are speaking about. I will point out that the largest WoW servers like Tichondrius, with 346,933 alliance and 553,940 horde characters does in fact have a completely cross faction auction house.

Of the other games mentioned only 1 (SWTOR) doesn't have a completely cross faction auction house, and 2 of them actually do have a completely game wide, 100%, every character on any server, global auction house. Now I do not want to get involved in a debate over how many accounts/users ESO has, but I feel that it is not significantly more than GW2 or Eve online so I seriously doubt it is a situation of impossibility to make a global AH.

Either way, this is why we know, from EQ, to Rift, to Wildstar and nearly every Triple A MMO in between, games with high BoP Games with no BoP, games with high populations, games with low populations. The system of a global AH works.

The problem you are talking about of someone cornering off a certain market in global AH systems is a self fixing scenario. Always has been, in fact if you look at guides on doing it in these games they will always tell you to quickly move on to other products. Simply put, there is an infinite source of every resource in an MMO. So it is impossible to completely take over a market, even in a Game like Eve where it's most possible, thanks to piracy.

As people corner off markets, the prices gradually rise. As the price gradually rises players take note and start to farm the item themselves to either take advantage of the new high sell price, or to get the item for themselves without paying another. (If it's EvE Piracy groups form to stop players from farming, or to steal goods farmed, then people hire bodyguards, or privateers for protection).The market is eventually flooded and the item drops down to very low prices for a time. No one farms that item anymore because it is near worthless. Players notice there is very little supply for that item and start to corner off the market to make gold. Repeat...

There are addons in WoW that actually show this market trend so you can try to jump in on the high point. I'm not as familiar with the other games as I am with Eve and WoW market trends but from simply using them I can see they are similar. It's not an issue and never was. The only way I could see it being an issue in ESO is because of the enormous gap in gold in ESO between the high end traders and the people who are not. Though I feel that would balance out as everyone has equal access to trade.

ESO could even put their own twist on a global system too. Simply by making 3 AH systems, one for each faction. They could even keep their traders even keep them owned by guilds. What if owning a trader meant that placing items on sale at that trader had a discount? What if buying from a guild owned trader gave that guild a percentage of the AH fee? You could support a particular guild, when they won the bid for a trader. What if your alliance determined your discount or fee for buying from another faction? There are ways to make it work for ESO and even unique for ESO. The point is it becomes an inclusive system, not an exclusive system.

@Emencie

WoW isn't a little much tho. I think that's one of the points I'm making.

This game is B2P so it's technically basing this only on what ZOS tells us you all could be asking to open up a global AH to 1-2 million player per server and that's after being broken up by platform.

When you look at it from an actual point of view it doesn't make good sense to open any market up like that with no limits.

I'm open to reading your thoughts but none of this justifies changing the entire games systems for an auction house. Making adjustments to traders makes sense and guild stores does make sense

So let's go with what you've said you actually want. And let's use what exists.

So ideally any trader location could still keep the spots but when you access one, you access all within maybe a continent? Or if that's too odd, traders as you say are broken into three faction splits. (Here's where it starts to get messy)

-how do you decide where to cut off this and where to add ?

-discounts, and trader migration, merging, faction separating....etc....etc.....

Sorry but No.

I think it's reasonable for them to adjust traders so that multiple guilds can win per NPC and maybe even consolidate all those guilds represented by one NPC trader

For non traders, linking guild stores for non trader location guilds and consolidating those...

Anything else .....you're basically wanting to redesign and entirely new game economy.

That means looking at how things drop, who has access, what's BOE or BOP. Reworking One Tamriel again but making it The Elder Scrolls Online Tamriel Unlimited minus Vr

I know it's not exactly what you're saying but technically speaking you're talking about redoing a huge part of the game which takes studies cause believe it or not, game economies are very similar in design to how countries look at real economies.

All of that to say.....a global AH ...it's not needed. Adjustments to the existing system. Sure

At the end of the day it's just something we don't like and it's been that way for almost 3 years in a April. Why change it now....it's not a big issue

It's a preference based on other games and not based a new problem that occurred from start to current in this game.

The WoW example is a bit much because WoW has more active users than likely every one of the games I mentioned combined. There is also the localization issues, where some versions have flat out different items, gold amounts, and caps. So there is a lot more involved with a WoW global AH.

But I agree there would need to be cut offs, I believe every single game I mentioned (perhaps except Eve) does have them in the form of list limits. Each character, or account can only list xx amount of items stuff like that. Those are details that ZOS would determine IMHO.

Though I must say as much as I don't like the trade system in ESO I doubt they will change it. There is almost no incentive to do so. Those of us that think it is terrible clearly deal with it or ignore it enough to be here. Changing it will simply not bring people flocking back to ESO because they are already gone. Sadly I'm sure guild trade vendors, exactly how they are now, are here to stay.

NewBlacksmurf · January 2017

Guild Traders

Emencie wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

I quite simply want something that is inclusive of all people.

A while ago I suggested that each zone should have it's own Trader (Just One) where everyone can come a put things up for sale.

This would of work wonderfully before 1T as it would mean in the Starter Area you would have low levels putting Low Level gear for sale, so as you progressed in levels you would of been able to find gear matching your level, which we all know is impossible in the current system.

I don't believe Guild Traders work for Several reasons;

Inclusive, they are not, as there is a finite number of people who can trade.
Lack of variety, you can only list 30 items and you pay a tax you don't get back, so you only sell what you know will sell.
Convenience, no one is, as many mention, going to go round 170 traders to check everything. This also makes some Trader completely pointless.
Guild monopoly, we know there are now guildes which are multiples of the same guild. Some of these guilds are using there position to remove competition
Supply and Demand is failing because there is only a limited people able to supply the demand.

But I don't think ZOS have the ability to change the system, it would be nice if ZOS would let us know then we could avoid these posts.

@Cherryblossom

I honestly hear what you and others are saying who suggest this is what you want.

I comprehend the logic behind it all but I disagree that it's the experience that you want.

It comes with pros and cons and from my point of view, the cons outweight the pros as you wrote above.

I do think what better aligns with what you and many others want could be achieved better (not the same) by doing the following:

1. Each current trader spot would have 5 different guild slots rather than one. (A guild can't win a spot in that zone more than twice in 4 weeks, not a month but a rolling 4 weeks)
2. For guilds who don't have traders, they can link up to 5 more guild stores without the need of joining another guild

This effectively opens up everyone to more stores whether they use a trader or not. It also doesn't destroy the economy and keeps the negative impacts to any more open markets to a minimum as well as being easily tracked.

Just opening up stuff and abandoning the systems isn't as simple as just changing things. You'd effectively destroy and loose a lot as well as people

What other major important concept that's being ignored is the value of a guild if a global or zone auction house or an open market trader were added.

See I do also understand that many are saying. I shouldn't have to join a guild to participate in the market. No you don't BUT the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines.

A lot of you really want a single player game with some multiplayer modes....I'm fighting against those ideas and some of that is contained in the comments of others.

Your suggested system fails to address the concerns about the present system because it is still dependent on guild membership.

Your claim that "the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines" is entirely subjective, and really isn't proven by the success of MMOs generally - none of which, apart from this one, require guild membership as a pre-requisite of participating in the trading system. Personally, I'd be very happy to interact with other players through trading but as I have no interest in guilds (although I interact with other players in other ways) and cannot in any event sustain the level of trading that would allow me to stay in a trading guild that option for interaction is closed to me.

This really doesn't need to be turned into yet another "old chestnut" discussion about soloing in MMOs. However, games that force one playstyle or another tend to be the least successful ones, these days it's all about developers catering for everyone in a mainstream game, less so in a niche title with limited appeal and ambition, and players then having the freedom of choice as to how they approach the game.

My real concern is that the core elements of any MMO should be open to all and not subject to artificial barriers such as guild membership, level, alliance, race or class etc. Trading is just such a core element and just as I'm sure we could agree that it shouldn't be restricted according to the character's level, alliance, race or class, I also think it shouldn't be restricted according to whether you belong to a guild or not - and under the current system further restricted according to whether or not the guild has bid successfully for a trader.

Keep the present system by all means, but open it up by having a few NPC traders who can take listings from those not in a successful trading guild, subject to a strict limit on the number of items that can be listed by a player and with a higher commission rate that would be split between the guilds trading in those locations. The casual trader would be happy, the hardcore trader would be happy, and the trading guilds would also be happy. Casual traders would benefit from the opportunity to sell the odd surplus item, the trading guilds would benefit from them doing so, and the hardcore traders would still have every reason to belong to trading guilds. It's a win/win situation, and one which doesn't force any particular playstyle on anyone.

@Tandor

Then by design since closed beta most of this game doesn't fit your desires.

Shrug it's not even worth discussing cause to suggest that the core design isn't what this person or that person wants begs the question....are you sure cause you're still here and there's been more added features in the direction than against.

It's not a win-win at all which is why it's designed in the way it still exists. With all the major changes....at its core...it's the same game with QoL updates

I've played the game since PC launch and it has fitted my desires in every single respect except the trading system.

Beyond your first sentence, however, I've really no idea what you're saying. Certainly nothing that addresses my suggested improvement to the existing trading system.

@Tandor

Simply put...TES series and it's stories and centered around guilds and how their involvement and influences create stores tales and experiences all placed against deadra

To suggest that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of the game...based on the series but more accurately based on the very early 2012 talks of the design which isn't a change....you're talking about making it some other game.

Everything should not be open....that's not even what many want. People just want to sale things and find places to buy more efficiently.

Please tell me where I said that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of the game, or where I said everything should be open.

You say that people just want to sell things, and I agree. They should be able to do so without playstyle conditions attached, and my suggestion would enable that without in any way impacting on the existing guilds other than by generating some additional revenue for them.

@Tandor

Your written words in context say point blank that so sorry if I missunderstood what you wrote.

In bold, I put it below with no edits from what you just wrote. How should I have interpreted that whole paragraph?

"My real concern is that the core elements of any MMO should be open to all and not subject to artificial barriers such as guild membership, level, alliance, race or class etc. Trading is just such a core element and just as I'm sure we could agree that it shouldn't be restricted according to the character's level, alliance, race or class, I also think it shouldn't be restricted according to whether you belong to a guild or not - and under the current system further restricted according to whether or not the guild has bid successfully for a trader."

I'm pretty sure what he means by that is that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of trade.

In fact because of the trade system, and needing to have a guild to access only 500 people to sell and trade with, not to mention the way the top merchant guilds are run, I would say that having a guild is less important to ESO than any other MMO I've ever played.

My character was in 5 trade guilds which amounted to 5 guilds of nameless faceless people I simply used to make gold, while the leadership used us all to make gold. Now that I have abandoned the trade system, I have no guilds... Where in other games my characters are in a single guild with people I enjoy playing with rather than people I need to use for gold, ESO guilds are almost useless to me outside of gaining gold.

@Emencie
I'd rather let ppl explain themselves. We can only go off what's written.

If you scroll up you'd see I've addressed the issue but the desires not to need to be in a guild at all....that's a whole different topic

In my opinion that's also a whole different game desire that exists in many forms in good qualities

You have some good ideas, but none of them address most of our biggest problem with the trade system in ESO. If I can explain with examples...

In WoW when you create a character, there is a moderate walk (at level 1) to the nearest major city. Once you have arrived finding the Auction house is as simple as asking an NPC for directions. Once there you have access to a trading hub that lets you access goods to buy from, or sell to every other player in the server.

In SWTOR when you create a character, you are on a planet with a few hours of tutorial questing that teaches you the basics of the game. Afterwards, you are taken to a space station for your faction. A quick look at the map details the galactic trade network, where you now have access to a trading hub that lets you buy from, or sell to every other player on your server/faction.

In FF14 when you get a character to level 17, you receive a quest detailing how to obtain a retainer, in that quest chain you also learn how to place items on the market board using this retainer. Once you have customized your new slave... Err... Retainer... You now have access to buying from, and selling to, every other player in the server.

In Eve online when you create a new pilot you are one jump away from the nearest station, after a very short tutorial that does not in any way prepare you for the most wretched hive of scum and villainy you have just joined, you can dock at this station where you can post buy and sell orders on the market, which is available to every player in the entire game.

In Guild wars 2 once you create a character you have a very short tutorial which dumps you into the main city. A look at the map will show you where the auction house is, and you can then start to buy and sell with every other player in the game.

Some of these options have player controlled aspects, like space stations in Eve that are owned by certain corps, while others are completely owned and financed by NPCs like WoW. Some of them deliver goods directly to your inventory from anywhere in the world, Some you have to pick up your goods from the location they were posted, and some mail you your goods. Some take a large cut of your money when listing, Some let you list for free or cheap.

But the thing they all have in common is simple. Everyone has trade access to their entire server of players from very easy to reach locations and can opt into trade with little trouble. This is what the people who are for an AH system want.

And it's hard to understand why people are against it because we know for a fact that the system works well, as all of the games I listed and many more have one. None of those games have a crumbling economy, and many of them have a more sustainable economy than ESO some of which are completely player controlled. So we know for a fact it works fine.

@Emencie

Those games by server design aren't nearly the same as ESO. Why some are against a global AH

Me specifically is due to actual observations and experiences in a few of the games you listed above. While each game is different you're identifying games that had by design a drop rate and drop item type which was intended to be shared or sold. Not all items obviously but the intent in some of those was based on restrictions.

In most if not all (I haven't played....all of them) you couldn't complete your profession or interact with a BoP drop. Many of those games also have limited access meaning or comparing to ESO it would be as if ESO mega servers had factions completely seperated.

Take for instance if for PvE, only one third of the entire map was accessible. Then you'd have traders where they are but they wouldn't be spread out because they are in towns you frequently visit as you level up (pre One Tamriel)

The games population (arguably) is a lot lower at one given time compared to many different times of those you've listed.

What I've experienced, been a part of and observed are strategies and schemes usually by means of add-ons and third party guides with or without add-ons of how to drill down on an item or group of items and pool resources in order to corner markets.

That happens here but it's in such small groups it's not a detriment to the overall economy or population.

See if you were to offer global AH, or open market trading where people without affiliations could list, buy and sale items whether online or offline, because of the above, you're opening up the game to negative schemes.

I'm not saying and most others aren't arguing that more people don't want access or that more people wouldn't be able to sale things with more access alone. We are saying that more access comes with many other factors.

If you actually look at many of those other games, they don't actually have open markets either.

What you're seeing is within the limited closed structure, it seems open to everyone you see, but it's not open to everyone in America or everyone in EU on one platform.

To better explain what we hear when you ask for a global AH or an open access market, using the example of WoW would be as if you asked Blizzard to open up the auction house to all Alliance, Horde and combined every US East servers AH into one

Literally and not figuratively, that's what you all are asking for but in reading that's not actually what everyone means. Maybe it is what you mean but I'd argue that many of us can agree that it's not what would be best.

Especially considering there are no barriers

Pretty much.

While the WoW example is a little much seeing how many players are involved which is more than any other game we are speaking about. I will point out that the largest WoW servers like Tichondrius, with 346,933 alliance and 553,940 horde characters does in fact have a completely cross faction auction house.

Of the other games mentioned only 1 (SWTOR) doesn't have a completely cross faction auction house, and 2 of them actually do have a completely game wide, 100%, every character on any server, global auction house. Now I do not want to get involved in a debate over how many accounts/users ESO has, but I feel that it is not significantly more than GW2 or Eve online so I seriously doubt it is a situation of impossibility to make a global AH.

Either way, this is why we know, from EQ, to Rift, to Wildstar and nearly every Triple A MMO in between, games with high BoP Games with no BoP, games with high populations, games with low populations. The system of a global AH works.

The problem you are talking about of someone cornering off a certain market in global AH systems is a self fixing scenario. Always has been, in fact if you look at guides on doing it in these games they will always tell you to quickly move on to other products. Simply put, there is an infinite source of every resource in an MMO. So it is impossible to completely take over a market, even in a Game like Eve where it's most possible, thanks to piracy.

As people corner off markets, the prices gradually rise. As the price gradually rises players take note and start to farm the item themselves to either take advantage of the new high sell price, or to get the item for themselves without paying another. (If it's EvE Piracy groups form to stop players from farming, or to steal goods farmed, then people hire bodyguards, or privateers for protection).The market is eventually flooded and the item drops down to very low prices for a time. No one farms that item anymore because it is near worthless. Players notice there is very little supply for that item and start to corner off the market to make gold. Repeat...

There are addons in WoW that actually show this market trend so you can try to jump in on the high point. I'm not as familiar with the other games as I am with Eve and WoW market trends but from simply using them I can see they are similar. It's not an issue and never was. The only way I could see it being an issue in ESO is because of the enormous gap in gold in ESO between the high end traders and the people who are not. Though I feel that would balance out as everyone has equal access to trade.

ESO could even put their own twist on a global system too. Simply by making 3 AH systems, one for each faction. They could even keep their traders even keep them owned by guilds. What if owning a trader meant that placing items on sale at that trader had a discount? What if buying from a guild owned trader gave that guild a percentage of the AH fee? You could support a particular guild, when they won the bid for a trader. What if your alliance determined your discount or fee for buying from another faction? There are ways to make it work for ESO and even unique for ESO. The point is it becomes an inclusive system, not an exclusive system.

@Emencie

WoW isn't a little much tho. I think that's one of the points I'm making.

This game is B2P so it's technically basing this only on what ZOS tells us you all could be asking to open up a global AH to 1-2 million player per server and that's after being broken up by platform.

When you look at it from an actual point of view it doesn't make good sense to open any market up like that with no limits.

I'm open to reading your thoughts but none of this justifies changing the entire games systems for an auction house. Making adjustments to traders makes sense and guild stores does make sense

So let's go with what you've said you actually want. And let's use what exists.

So ideally any trader location could still keep the spots but when you access one, you access all within maybe a continent? Or if that's too odd, traders as you say are broken into three faction splits. (Here's where it starts to get messy)

-how do you decide where to cut off this and where to add ?

-discounts, and trader migration, merging, faction separating....etc....etc.....

Sorry but No.

I think it's reasonable for them to adjust traders so that multiple guilds can win per NPC and maybe even consolidate all those guilds represented by one NPC trader

For non traders, linking guild stores for non trader location guilds and consolidating those...

Anything else .....you're basically wanting to redesign and entirely new game economy.

That means looking at how things drop, who has access, what's BOE or BOP. Reworking One Tamriel again but making it The Elder Scrolls Online Tamriel Unlimited minus Vr

I know it's not exactly what you're saying but technically speaking you're talking about redoing a huge part of the game which takes studies cause believe it or not, game economies are very similar in design to how countries look at real economies.

All of that to say.....a global AH ...it's not needed. Adjustments to the existing system. Sure

At the end of the day it's just something we don't like and it's been that way for almost 3 years in a April. Why change it now....it's not a big issue

It's a preference based on other games and not based a new problem that occurred from start to current in this game.

The WoW example is a bit much because WoW has more active users than likely every one of the games I mentioned combined. There is also the localization issues, where some versions have flat out different items, gold amounts, and caps. So there is a lot more involved with a WoW global AH.

But I agree there would need to be cut offs, I believe every single game I mentioned (perhaps except Eve) does have them in the form of list limits. Each character, or account can only list xx amount of items stuff like that. Those are details that ZOS would determine IMHO.

Though I must say as much as I don't like the trade system in ESO I doubt they will change it. There is almost no incentive to do so. Those of us that think it is terrible clearly deal with it or ignore it enough to be here. Changing it will simply not bring people flocking back to ESO because they are already gone. Sadly I'm sure guild trade vendors, exactly how they are now, are here to stay.

@Emencie

It should be based on potential and not actual cause I don't half bottom things. Current opp is around 1-2 mil per server as new ppl continue to buy and existing can log on at any time.

Humble48 · January 2017

Global Auction House

Personally, I think a global auction is better than the trade guild system. It's just too all over the place and there isn't a simple way to find what you're looking for without making it a night of running around. I'd be all for trade guilds if there was a global search method to find something you're looking for. I'd even suggest that trade guilds not be bidding on locations but rather on listing priorities or enabling access to the global search. I know it's lore breaking but the current system discourages a good portion of the player base with the trade guild politics and minimum membership requirements. Takes the fun out of it.

Ojustaboo · January 2017

I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)

Vipstaakki wrote: »

There is no need to fix what isn't broken.

Trouble is, its only not broken for those in trading guilds.

Or to put it another way, one of the arguments against AH is people buying up stock and manipulating prices, but this already happens, it's just that only traders get to do it.

For example, II wanted a few perfect roe. I went to about 70 different traders, most had them, every single one between 9900 and 10100 with the vast majority being exactly 10000 (OK some also had other people listing it much higher, but all had the lowest price the same). So there was a price fluctuation of 200 on a 10k item.

With traders all seeing what things sold for previously and 99% all putting them up at the same price, it's become virtually pointless spending an hour travelling all over the place to see if anyone's selling cheaper, because they rarely if ever do now.

Personally I think some traders go around buying up cheap items and re-listing them just like others would do on an AH.

I don't mind the idea of traders, if I travelled around and found things at different prices, then I agree it would be fine. But when I'm looking for a particular item, and I'm spending an hour trying to find a trader with it in stock, and after that hour, I've found 4 and they are all charging exactly the same price, then for me, it's becoming a waste of my time. I would rather have saved that hour, gone to an AH and bought it at 3 times the price (money isn't exactly hard to get at the moment)

That said, I know how AH can be abused (although as I said, some traders are doing this anyway).

Maybe have 3 different AH, one in each faction?

Where traders really fall down is for people like me that only want to sell a few things occasionally. Guilds don't exist for people like me and I'm not going to spam chat with my wares, hence so far I've not sold ANY items since beta to other players

RebornV3x · January 2017

Global Auction House

Guild traders are a cool concept its one of those ideas that sound great on paper but just end up being garbage

Dawnblade · January 2017

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Vipstaakki wrote: »

There is no need to fix what isn't broken.

Trouble is, its only not broken for those in trading guilds.

Or to put it another way, one of the arguments against AH is people buying up stock and manipulating prices, but this already happens, it's just that only traders get to do it.

For example, II wanted a few perfect roe. I went to about 70 different traders, most had them, every single one between 9900 and 10100 with the vast majority being exactly 10000 (OK some also had other people listing it much higher, but all had the lowest price the same). So there was a price fluctuation of 200 on a 10k item.

With traders all seeing what things sold for previously and 99% all putting them up at the same price, it's become virtually pointless spending an hour travelling all over the place to see if anyone's selling cheaper, because they rarely if ever do now.

Personally I think some traders go around buying up cheap items and re-listing them just like others would do on an AH.

I don't mind the idea of traders, if I travelled around and found things at different prices, then I agree it would be fine. But when I'm looking for a particular item, and I'm spending an hour trying to find a trader with it in stock, and after that hour, I've found 4 and they are all charging exactly the same price, then for me, it's becoming a waste of my time. I would rather have saved that hour, gone to an AH and bought it at 3 times the price (money isn't exactly hard to get at the moment)

That said, I know how AH can be abused (although as I said, some traders are doing this anyway).

Maybe have 3 different AH, one in each faction?

Where traders really fall down is for people like me that only want to sell a few things occasionally. Guilds don't exist for people like me and I'm not going to spam chat with my wares, hence so far I've not sold ANY items since beta to other players

For something like Roe - or any other general trade good, not some absurdly rare unique item - a global marketplace would most likley result in lower prices.

Just check commodities pricing in WoW or SWTOR or FFXIV and compare the pricing on their largest servers with pricing on the smallest servers.

In almost every case, prices will be cheaper on the high population servers as competition is fierce and volumes are so high no one person or small group can corner a market.

Want a real world example - retail before the likes of Wal-Mart (or other big box stores), and now Amazon - drive around to a dozen different stores and maybe you find something, maybe you don't, and if you do prices are moderately high.

Today you can go to a big box store and find most anything and at a generally lower price than a smaller shop, or just pull up Amazon on your phone or PC, hit search and a couple of clicks, taps, swipes, find anything at low pricing and have it sent to your door.

Of course the small local businesses screamed when Wal Mart and other big box retailers moved in and provided more goods at lower prices as it killed their market, and now even the likes of Wal Mart are struggling with the competition Amazon brings to the table and will have to adapt or die.

But in both cases the end customers have benefited with more and more goods available at lower prices provided with ever increasing convenience.

That is why I laugh my butt off every time the 'guild traders keep prices low' argument comes up - it just isn't true, they just know they would get hammered by the competition and do not want to adapt and compete.

Limited access in limited locations means less competition and less goods available, which results in higher prices, not lower.

AnviOfVai · January 2017

Global Auction House

Global Auction site all the way! It would be great if people could buy things off the crown store and sell it on the auction house though

Allows everyone to get something

knaveofengland · February 2018

we have sell orders player lists item and price then waits for someone to buy it . in guild store/stall in other place

now we need buy orders player lists what he wants to buy and price he wants to buy it for . this could be a new place to buy from like the thieves fences .

but would like to see eve online system its a world beater period .

RobbieRocket · February 2018

I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)

Every Guild can have there own Trader. Guild Tabbard on and character can be customised in a similar way to Tabbard (in other words it costs). Guilds would be able to list a maximum 500 (members) x 30 items = 15 000 items.

As for overcrowding, dead guilds etc. No problem, have requirements bu guild membership and activity in order to have a Trader. A weekly fee paid by the guild could also occur to go along with the listing fees (tax). This "Guild Fee" could be related to "how many items can be listed in total" or "how many members are allowed to list items" and this would make guild strategy and planning factor.

Fleshreaper · February 2018

I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)

Add 5-8 more guild traders to each main city. Have a 1st Monday trade days time of event where once a month for three or four days, every guild trader will get together in one location. Add some silly little repeatable quests to earn tokens. Tokens can then be used to buy a new motif chapters and housing items.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · February 2018

Guild Traders

But I would like to have a global search function so I don't waste hours of my time searching all of Tamriel just to find no one is selling what I am looking for.

Cpt_Teemo · February 2018

Mobile Auction Horse

AH

KhajiitHasSkooma · February 2018

Guild Traders

Please don't remove and wash out every unique feature of this game to make it more like WoW. Global AH is a terrible, boring way to sell items. Set your item at the same price as everybody else and wait until it gets sold.

At least with guild traders there's a new aspect to making money. Don't cater to the lazy by making an AH. Plus, without the goldsink of guild traders, prices for items would be bonkers. People begging for AH would not be able to afford a single temper.

Brumme · February 2018

Global Auction House

Maybe a city where ALL guild trades are in one place

wenchmore420b14_ESO · February 2018

Guild Traders

Another Year old thread bumped beating the same dead horse,,,sad...

NewBlacksmurf · February 2018

Guild Traders

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Another Year old thread bumped beating the same dead horse,,,sad...

@wenchmore420b14_ESO
Its a culture of complaining until something changes......
which is a result of

Poor planning and rolling out features without gathering accurate feedback.

also a result of....

Companies changing their vision because of greed of $$$$$$

I'm not saying things should or shouldn't change but the topic keeps coming up cause this company has a bad history of saying one thing and then making a HUGE change and adding adding money grabbing with the changes

illusiouk · February 2018

Global Auction House

We need a Global Auction House. The fact its up for debate is shocking.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · February 2018

Guild Traders

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Another Year old thread bumped beating the same dead horse,,,sad...

@wenchmore420b14_ESO
Its a culture of complaining until something changes......
which is a result of

Poor planning and rolling out features without gathering accurate feedback.

also a result of....

Companies changing their vision because of greed of $$$$$$

I'm not saying things should or shouldn't change but the topic keeps coming up cause this company has a bad history of saying one thing and then making a HUGE change and adding adding money grabbing with the changes

Very true my friend, very true...
I still remember the beta and launch "Game Direction" of the Paul Sage days and the "Game Direction" now... So different..

I still LOVE this game and Matt & Rich are trying to do a great job, but yes, too many times they have not been transparent enough... (P.S. Really miss Paul and his shirts!! And miss Nick too!)

RobbieRocket · February 2018

I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)

I think the Trader system (how they work mechanically) was ok as a concept but the problems arise because the Trader scenario is changing over time and the game Trader dynamics (how people use them) are also changing over time but there is absolutely no intented link or failsafe relating the two Things.

1. The Trader scenario has essentially just seen an increase in Trader count with each new zone.*

2. The Trader dynamics however have evolved. The dynamics changed with the introduction of ONE TAMRIEL of course but more over players have advanced as a community, with the community of end-gamers/max CP increasing all the time. Then add to that, the number of guilds in the knowledge regarding trading, monopolization, alliances, selling in-game coin for real money, freezing lesser guilds out, ghost guilds, etc.

These two things are not aligned and there are no mechanisms to help align them. It's a bit of a "hit and hope" or "sit back and see how this unfolds".

Unfortunately (and I accept that many players are not aware of it) honest, friendly, less powerful but sometimes well-populated guilds are being hindered from realising the game's community potential due to a seriously unbalanced onus on power, manipulation and money, plus to a degree, cheating. Now, you may say it's like the real world, but I don't mean role-play Tamriel thieving, I mean real-world actions that hurt the game for others.

CapnPhoton · February 2018

Guild Traders

theher0not wrote: »

Like wow. Guild traders are fine but feel like an AH like wow would make it easier to get into trading.

It also becomes a waste of time for sellers when you have hundreds of pages of the same item, they sell for barely over the vendor price, and isn't really worth it.
Also, if it were a global system where you just go to an NPC in town and access all the items in the world in one place it is unrealistic based on the technology level of the game. There is no Amazon or Ebay in Tamriel where you can buy from anywhere, therefore having them localized is more realistic. I played another game that had faction based commerce, which is sort of in the middle of the two. Then it opened up to world wide selling, and it ruined the commerce system in the game.

Cpt_Teemo · February 2018

Mobile Auction Horse

CapnPhoton wrote: »

theher0not wrote: »

Like wow. Guild traders are fine but feel like an AH like wow would make it easier to get into trading.

It also becomes a waste of time for sellers when you have hundreds of pages of the same item, they sell for barely over the vendor price, and isn't really worth it.
Also, if it were a global system where you just go to an NPC in town and access all the items in the world in one place it is unrealistic based on the technology level of the game. There is no Amazon or Ebay in Tamriel where you can buy from anywhere, therefore having them localized is more realistic. I played another game that had faction based commerce, which is sort of in the middle of the two. Then it opened up to world wide selling, and it ruined the commerce system in the game.

You do know you can filter stack size in most MMO's as well

Katahdin · February 2018

Guild Traders

illusiouk wrote: »

We need a Global Auction House. The fact its up for debate is shocking.

No we dont.

The fact that this keeps being debated when ZoS has said they will not change to GAH is shocking.

Forztr · February 2018

I have a better idea! (post your idea in the comments)

Add an NPC Merchant guild similar to Ledgermain where one of the benefits was access to weekend markets in various towns where members of the guild can list items.

It would give casual players willing to spend a few skill points a place to sell stuff without having to find and stay in a trade guild with requirements.

It would give experienced traders access to a source of poorly priced goods from inexperienced traders.

CapnPhoton · February 2018

Guild Traders

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

CapnPhoton wrote: »

theher0not wrote: »

Like wow. Guild traders are fine but feel like an AH like wow would make it easier to get into trading.

It also becomes a waste of time for sellers when you have hundreds of pages of the same item, they sell for barely over the vendor price, and isn't really worth it.
Also, if it were a global system where you just go to an NPC in town and access all the items in the world in one place it is unrealistic based on the technology level of the game. There is no Amazon or Ebay in Tamriel where you can buy from anywhere, therefore having them localized is more realistic. I played another game that had faction based commerce, which is sort of in the middle of the two. Then it opened up to world wide selling, and it ruined the commerce system in the game.

You do know you can filter stack size in most MMO's as well

My issue with this is not really about that. It's about having so many items available in one place causes a saturation. It's great for buyers, but for sellers, pennies on the dollar is a waste of time and we might as well just sell to vendor. I saw the effect it had in another game where the market was so saturated, no one made any money, and everyone was running around with the best stuff taking little effort to get it because the market was flooded on the cheap.
The game got boring quick as it ruined much of the challenge of the game.

Motherball · February 2018

Global Auction House

I like the guild trader system but I feel its very obtuse and exclusive, both things I dont like in MMORPGs or economies. Bazaar or AH would be pretty helpful imo, anything with a better search filter/function

PlagueSD · February 2018

Mobile Auction Horse

I want a mobile auction horse that will follow me everywhere I go. No more need to stop killing and head back to town to list my wares..

Seriously, though. I like the guild traders. With Awesome Guild Store, searching is a breeze.

preevious · February 2018

Guild Traders

System as is is brillant.
It's immersive, and it's actually quite fun to look for bargain.
If you want all the benefit of a global auction house, use tamriel trade center.

Fherrit · February 2018

Global Auction House

Global auction because the current system is broke. Those who claim it isn't either don't understand how its broke, or benefit from it being broken the way it is. How is it broken?

Its exploitable by trade cartels who will have a network of primary and 2ndary guilds who's only function is to bid on ideal 2nd tier spots to lock out actual guilds so they can't compete. All you have to do to verify this is to scan a trader, if it only has a few pages of inventory that's mostly junk, there's your dummy guild being funded by a cartel member to lock out a trader spot. It happens, and anyone can test it for themselves to see what I'm saying.

If ZOS were to implement measures that would prevent gaming the current system and retain guild traders, I'd be for it, but A) I personally can't think of a way for them to salvage what they got and prevent this and

it'd be easier to just impliment a AH. If they're still concerned about a coin sink for the economy they could come up with a number of systems that would both function as a coin sink, and even enhance QOL for players if they wanted to.

Valen_Byte · February 2018

Guild Traders

Guild traders create an actual economy. They are the most realistic option. Yes prices might be higher in one location than another. That's what an economy is. Just like the one most of us live and work in.

Jarryzzt · February 2018

Very simple. EVE.

I want this to be like EVE. With an EVE-like interface. And all the data-mining trimmings.

Not just because "I wanna", but because these censored double-censored triple-censored but a dog and a deranged macaque are involved fine game designers at ZOS took the first baby step in that direction - tying each item listing to a specific physical location in the world - and then stopped. Resulting in a stupefyingly non-user friendly system, not helped by the cross-platform aspect (i.e. no "word search" box because consoles).

EVE shows you how tying items to physical locations can still work beautifully, and it starts with the interface, which, among many, many other things, lets you browse and trade all listings for a given item across the entire sector (somewhat modified by trading skills if you are a seller), though you still have to go to the physical location to pick up your purchases. [Which is the right way to do physical location systems, in my opinion, whereas ESO has it precisely backwards.] Not to mention the seamless incorporation of TTC and MM-type functionality (and more besides) without any add-ons.

Of course, this isn't going to happen, because ponies. Actually, because it would completely revamp the current trading guild system, where you sink in-game gold to bid (weekly!) for prime retail locations (where your listings might actually be seen). In fact, this is a much deeper issue if you think about it - the only way that the gold-sink bidding-for-prime-locations works is if you have substantial information assymetry, i.e. cannot see all the listings at once. So what ZOS really needs to do is think about how to restructure the trading guild system from the ground up - for example, adapt a monthly "corporation fee" system from EVE (but somehow tiered or scalable to prevent the largest guilds from becoming gazillionaires), play around with tiered commissions/sales taxes, introduce some other thing for high-end guilds to sink their profits into. Then you can start layering in a global view, whether a classic auction system (LOTRO, TOR, many others), or some *** child of EVE, or...I actually do not know of very many other ways of doing it, because most people did not go the ZOS route and did not try to reinvent-the-bicycle-because-ponies.

Rant mode - disengaged.