Here is the problem I have with Guild Traders... when 'real life happens' they miss their bids and suddenly their members get shafted because of having no location. At least with a Global Auction House, this wouldn't happen. Right now three of the Guild Traders I belong to, NONE of them have a location this week... it's frustrating. I realize that 'real life happens' but can't the Guild Leaders at least have backup leaders that could place their bids when stuff comes up?

Cherryblossom wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

I quite simply want something that is inclusive of all people.

A while ago I suggested that each zone should have it's own Trader (Just One) where everyone can come a put things up for sale.

This would of work wonderfully before 1T as it would mean in the Starter Area you would have low levels putting Low Level gear for sale, so as you progressed in levels you would of been able to find gear matching your level, which we all know is impossible in the current system.

I don't believe Guild Traders work for Several reasons;

Inclusive, they are not, as there is a finite number of people who can trade.
Lack of variety, you can only list 30 items and you pay a tax you don't get back, so you only sell what you know will sell.
Convenience, no one is, as many mention, going to go round 170 traders to check everything. This also makes some Trader completely pointless.
Guild monopoly, we know there are now guildes which are multiples of the same guild. Some of these guilds are using there position to remove competition
Supply and Demand is failing because there is only a limited people able to supply the demand.

But I don't think ZOS have the ability to change the system, it would be nice if ZOS would let us know then we could avoid these posts.

@Cherryblossom

I honestly hear what you and others are saying who suggest this is what you want.

I comprehend the logic behind it all but I disagree that it's the experience that you want.

It comes with pros and cons and from my point of view, the cons outweight the pros as you wrote above.

I do think what better aligns with what you and many others want could be achieved better (not the same) by doing the following:

1. Each current trader spot would have 5 different guild slots rather than one. (A guild can't win a spot in that zone more than twice in 4 weeks, not a month but a rolling 4 weeks)
2. For guilds who don't have traders, they can link up to 5 more guild stores without the need of joining another guild


This effectively opens up everyone to more stores whether they use a trader or not. It also doesn't destroy the economy and keeps the negative impacts to any more open markets to a minimum as well as being easily tracked.

Just opening up stuff and abandoning the systems isn't as simple as just changing things. You'd effectively destroy and loose a lot as well as people

What other major important concept that's being ignored is the value of a guild if a global or zone auction house or an open market trader were added.

See I do also understand that many are saying. I shouldn't have to join a guild to participate in the market. No you don't BUT the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines.

A lot of you really want a single player game with some multiplayer modes....I'm fighting against those ideas and some of that is contained in the comments of others.

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

I quite simply want something that is inclusive of all people.

A while ago I suggested that each zone should have it's own Trader (Just One) where everyone can come a put things up for sale.

This would of work wonderfully before 1T as it would mean in the Starter Area you would have low levels putting Low Level gear for sale, so as you progressed in levels you would of been able to find gear matching your level, which we all know is impossible in the current system.

I don't believe Guild Traders work for Several reasons;

Inclusive, they are not, as there is a finite number of people who can trade.
Lack of variety, you can only list 30 items and you pay a tax you don't get back, so you only sell what you know will sell.
Convenience, no one is, as many mention, going to go round 170 traders to check everything. This also makes some Trader completely pointless.
Guild monopoly, we know there are now guildes which are multiples of the same guild. Some of these guilds are using there position to remove competition
Supply and Demand is failing because there is only a limited people able to supply the demand.

But I don't think ZOS have the ability to change the system, it would be nice if ZOS would let us know then we could avoid these posts.

@Cherryblossom

I honestly hear what you and others are saying who suggest this is what you want.

I comprehend the logic behind it all but I disagree that it's the experience that you want.

It comes with pros and cons and from my point of view, the cons outweight the pros as you wrote above.

I do think what better aligns with what you and many others want could be achieved better (not the same) by doing the following:

1. Each current trader spot would have 5 different guild slots rather than one. (A guild can't win a spot in that zone more than twice in 4 weeks, not a month but a rolling 4 weeks)
2. For guilds who don't have traders, they can link up to 5 more guild stores without the need of joining another guild


This effectively opens up everyone to more stores whether they use a trader or not. It also doesn't destroy the economy and keeps the negative impacts to any more open markets to a minimum as well as being easily tracked.

Just opening up stuff and abandoning the systems isn't as simple as just changing things. You'd effectively destroy and loose a lot as well as people

What other major important concept that's being ignored is the value of a guild if a global or zone auction house or an open market trader were added.

See I do also understand that many are saying. I shouldn't have to join a guild to participate in the market. No you don't BUT the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines.

A lot of you really want a single player game with some multiplayer modes....I'm fighting against those ideas and some of that is contained in the comments of others.

Your suggested system fails to address the concerns about the present system because it is still dependent on guild membership.

Your claim that "the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines" is entirely subjective, and really isn't proven by the success of MMOs generally - none of which, apart from this one, require guild membership as a pre-requisite of participating in the trading system. Personally, I'd be very happy to interact with other players through trading but as I have no interest in guilds (although I interact with other players in other ways) and cannot in any event sustain the level of trading that would allow me to stay in a trading guild that option for interaction is closed to me.

This really doesn't need to be turned into yet another "old chestnut" discussion about soloing in MMOs. However, games that force one playstyle or another tend to be the least successful ones, these days it's all about developers catering for everyone in a mainstream game, less so in a niche title with limited appeal and ambition, and players then having the freedom of choice as to how they approach the game.

My real concern is that the core elements of any MMO should be open to all and not subject to artificial barriers such as guild membership, level, alliance, race or class etc. Trading is just such a core element and just as I'm sure we could agree that it shouldn't be restricted according to the character's level, alliance, race or class, I also think it shouldn't be restricted according to whether you belong to a guild or not - and under the current system further restricted according to whether or not the guild has bid successfully for a trader.

Keep the present system by all means, but open it up by having a few NPC traders who can take listings from those not in a successful trading guild, subject to a strict limit on the number of items that can be listed by a player and with a higher commission rate that would be split between the guilds trading in those locations. The casual trader would be happy, the hardcore trader would be happy, and the trading guilds would also be happy. Casual traders would benefit from the opportunity to sell the odd surplus item, the trading guilds would benefit from them doing so, and the hardcore traders would still have every reason to belong to trading guilds. It's a win/win situation, and one which doesn't force any particular playstyle on anyone.

@Tandor

Then by design since closed beta most of this game doesn't fit your desires.

Shrug it's not even worth discussing cause to suggest that the core design isn't what this person or that person wants begs the question....are you sure cause you're still here and there's been more added features in the direction than against.

It's not a win-win at all which is why it's designed in the way it still exists. With all the major changes....at its core...it's the same game with QoL updates

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

I quite simply want something that is inclusive of all people.

A while ago I suggested that each zone should have it's own Trader (Just One) where everyone can come a put things up for sale.

This would of work wonderfully before 1T as it would mean in the Starter Area you would have low levels putting Low Level gear for sale, so as you progressed in levels you would of been able to find gear matching your level, which we all know is impossible in the current system.

I don't believe Guild Traders work for Several reasons;

Inclusive, they are not, as there is a finite number of people who can trade.
Lack of variety, you can only list 30 items and you pay a tax you don't get back, so you only sell what you know will sell.
Convenience, no one is, as many mention, going to go round 170 traders to check everything. This also makes some Trader completely pointless.
Guild monopoly, we know there are now guildes which are multiples of the same guild. Some of these guilds are using there position to remove competition
Supply and Demand is failing because there is only a limited people able to supply the demand.

But I don't think ZOS have the ability to change the system, it would be nice if ZOS would let us know then we could avoid these posts.

@Cherryblossom

I honestly hear what you and others are saying who suggest this is what you want.

I comprehend the logic behind it all but I disagree that it's the experience that you want.

It comes with pros and cons and from my point of view, the cons outweight the pros as you wrote above.

I do think what better aligns with what you and many others want could be achieved better (not the same) by doing the following:

1. Each current trader spot would have 5 different guild slots rather than one. (A guild can't win a spot in that zone more than twice in 4 weeks, not a month but a rolling 4 weeks)
2. For guilds who don't have traders, they can link up to 5 more guild stores without the need of joining another guild


This effectively opens up everyone to more stores whether they use a trader or not. It also doesn't destroy the economy and keeps the negative impacts to any more open markets to a minimum as well as being easily tracked.

Just opening up stuff and abandoning the systems isn't as simple as just changing things. You'd effectively destroy and loose a lot as well as people

What other major important concept that's being ignored is the value of a guild if a global or zone auction house or an open market trader were added.

See I do also understand that many are saying. I shouldn't have to join a guild to participate in the market. No you don't BUT the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines.

A lot of you really want a single player game with some multiplayer modes....I'm fighting against those ideas and some of that is contained in the comments of others.

Your suggested system fails to address the concerns about the present system because it is still dependent on guild membership.

Your claim that "the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines" is entirely subjective, and really isn't proven by the success of MMOs generally - none of which, apart from this one, require guild membership as a pre-requisite of participating in the trading system. Personally, I'd be very happy to interact with other players through trading but as I have no interest in guilds (although I interact with other players in other ways) and cannot in any event sustain the level of trading that would allow me to stay in a trading guild that option for interaction is closed to me.

This really doesn't need to be turned into yet another "old chestnut" discussion about soloing in MMOs. However, games that force one playstyle or another tend to be the least successful ones, these days it's all about developers catering for everyone in a mainstream game, less so in a niche title with limited appeal and ambition, and players then having the freedom of choice as to how they approach the game.

My real concern is that the core elements of any MMO should be open to all and not subject to artificial barriers such as guild membership, level, alliance, race or class etc. Trading is just such a core element and just as I'm sure we could agree that it shouldn't be restricted according to the character's level, alliance, race or class, I also think it shouldn't be restricted according to whether you belong to a guild or not - and under the current system further restricted according to whether or not the guild has bid successfully for a trader.

Keep the present system by all means, but open it up by having a few NPC traders who can take listings from those not in a successful trading guild, subject to a strict limit on the number of items that can be listed by a player and with a higher commission rate that would be split between the guilds trading in those locations. The casual trader would be happy, the hardcore trader would be happy, and the trading guilds would also be happy. Casual traders would benefit from the opportunity to sell the odd surplus item, the trading guilds would benefit from them doing so, and the hardcore traders would still have every reason to belong to trading guilds. It's a win/win situation, and one which doesn't force any particular playstyle on anyone.

@Tandor

Then by design since closed beta most of this game doesn't fit your desires.

Shrug it's not even worth discussing cause to suggest that the core design isn't what this person or that person wants begs the question....are you sure cause you're still here and there's been more added features in the direction than against.

It's not a win-win at all which is why it's designed in the way it still exists. With all the major changes....at its core...it's the same game with QoL updates

I've played the game since PC launch and it has fitted my desires in every single respect except the trading system.

Beyond your first sentence, however, I've really no idea what you're saying. Certainly nothing that addresses my suggested improvement to the existing trading system.

@Tandor

Simply put...TES series and it's stories and centered around guilds and how their involvement and influences create stores tales and experiences all placed against deadra


To suggest that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of the game...based on the series but more accurately based on the very early 2012 talks of the design which isn't a change....you're talking about making it some other game.

Everything should not be open....that's not even what many want. People just want to sale things and find places to buy more efficiently.

The guild trader system as it is is ridiculously clumsy for both buyers and sellers. As a buyer it takes me forever to work through trader after trader, laboriously reentering my search and trying to keep track of which trader offered what. As a seller I detest the regimentation and fees and what have you, I really just want a casual system that I don't have to stress about.

Dantonian_Rarstiana wrote: »

Guild traders only serve to make it harder for people to buy things, and easier for them to be ripped off.

You are buying it. So you are making a decision to get ripped off. It is hard to blame it on the seller in that case.

The trader system is a bit more realistic in retail, in that the item is in one location, and not others.

Emencie wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

I quite simply want something that is inclusive of all people.

A while ago I suggested that each zone should have it's own Trader (Just One) where everyone can come a put things up for sale.

This would of work wonderfully before 1T as it would mean in the Starter Area you would have low levels putting Low Level gear for sale, so as you progressed in levels you would of been able to find gear matching your level, which we all know is impossible in the current system.

I don't believe Guild Traders work for Several reasons;

Inclusive, they are not, as there is a finite number of people who can trade.
Lack of variety, you can only list 30 items and you pay a tax you don't get back, so you only sell what you know will sell.
Convenience, no one is, as many mention, going to go round 170 traders to check everything. This also makes some Trader completely pointless.
Guild monopoly, we know there are now guildes which are multiples of the same guild. Some of these guilds are using there position to remove competition
Supply and Demand is failing because there is only a limited people able to supply the demand.

But I don't think ZOS have the ability to change the system, it would be nice if ZOS would let us know then we could avoid these posts.

@Cherryblossom

I honestly hear what you and others are saying who suggest this is what you want.

I comprehend the logic behind it all but I disagree that it's the experience that you want.

It comes with pros and cons and from my point of view, the cons outweight the pros as you wrote above.

I do think what better aligns with what you and many others want could be achieved better (not the same) by doing the following:

1. Each current trader spot would have 5 different guild slots rather than one. (A guild can't win a spot in that zone more than twice in 4 weeks, not a month but a rolling 4 weeks)
2. For guilds who don't have traders, they can link up to 5 more guild stores without the need of joining another guild


This effectively opens up everyone to more stores whether they use a trader or not. It also doesn't destroy the economy and keeps the negative impacts to any more open markets to a minimum as well as being easily tracked.

Just opening up stuff and abandoning the systems isn't as simple as just changing things. You'd effectively destroy and loose a lot as well as people

What other major important concept that's being ignored is the value of a guild if a global or zone auction house or an open market trader were added.

See I do also understand that many are saying. I shouldn't have to join a guild to participate in the market. No you don't BUT the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines.

A lot of you really want a single player game with some multiplayer modes....I'm fighting against those ideas and some of that is contained in the comments of others.

Your suggested system fails to address the concerns about the present system because it is still dependent on guild membership.

Your claim that "the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines" is entirely subjective, and really isn't proven by the success of MMOs generally - none of which, apart from this one, require guild membership as a pre-requisite of participating in the trading system. Personally, I'd be very happy to interact with other players through trading but as I have no interest in guilds (although I interact with other players in other ways) and cannot in any event sustain the level of trading that would allow me to stay in a trading guild that option for interaction is closed to me.

This really doesn't need to be turned into yet another "old chestnut" discussion about soloing in MMOs. However, games that force one playstyle or another tend to be the least successful ones, these days it's all about developers catering for everyone in a mainstream game, less so in a niche title with limited appeal and ambition, and players then having the freedom of choice as to how they approach the game.

My real concern is that the core elements of any MMO should be open to all and not subject to artificial barriers such as guild membership, level, alliance, race or class etc. Trading is just such a core element and just as I'm sure we could agree that it shouldn't be restricted according to the character's level, alliance, race or class, I also think it shouldn't be restricted according to whether you belong to a guild or not - and under the current system further restricted according to whether or not the guild has bid successfully for a trader.

Keep the present system by all means, but open it up by having a few NPC traders who can take listings from those not in a successful trading guild, subject to a strict limit on the number of items that can be listed by a player and with a higher commission rate that would be split between the guilds trading in those locations. The casual trader would be happy, the hardcore trader would be happy, and the trading guilds would also be happy. Casual traders would benefit from the opportunity to sell the odd surplus item, the trading guilds would benefit from them doing so, and the hardcore traders would still have every reason to belong to trading guilds. It's a win/win situation, and one which doesn't force any particular playstyle on anyone.

@Tandor

Then by design since closed beta most of this game doesn't fit your desires.

Shrug it's not even worth discussing cause to suggest that the core design isn't what this person or that person wants begs the question....are you sure cause you're still here and there's been more added features in the direction than against.

It's not a win-win at all which is why it's designed in the way it still exists. With all the major changes....at its core...it's the same game with QoL updates

I've played the game since PC launch and it has fitted my desires in every single respect except the trading system.

Beyond your first sentence, however, I've really no idea what you're saying. Certainly nothing that addresses my suggested improvement to the existing trading system.

@Tandor

Simply put...TES series and it's stories and centered around guilds and how their involvement and influences create stores tales and experiences all placed against deadra


To suggest that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of the game...based on the series but more accurately based on the very early 2012 talks of the design which isn't a change....you're talking about making it some other game.

Everything should not be open....that's not even what many want. People just want to sale things and find places to buy more efficiently.

Please tell me where I said that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of the game, or where I said everything should be open.

You say that people just want to sell things, and I agree. They should be able to do so without playstyle conditions attached, and my suggestion would enable that without in any way impacting on the existing guilds other than by generating some additional revenue for them.

@Tandor

Your written words in context say point blank that so sorry if I missunderstood what you wrote.

In bold, I put it below with no edits from what you just wrote. How should I have interpreted that whole paragraph?

"My real concern is that the core elements of any MMO should be open to all and not subject to artificial barriers such as guild membership, level, alliance, race or class etc. Trading is just such a core element and just as I'm sure we could agree that it shouldn't be restricted according to the character's level, alliance, race or class, I also think it shouldn't be restricted according to whether you belong to a guild or not - and under the current system further restricted according to whether or not the guild has bid successfully for a trader."

I'm pretty sure what he means by that is that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of trade.

In fact because of the trade system, and needing to have a guild to access only 500 people to sell and trade with, not to mention the way the top merchant guilds are run, I would say that having a guild is less important to ESO than any other MMO I've ever played.

My character was in 5 trade guilds which amounted to 5 guilds of nameless faceless people I simply used to make gold, while the leadership used us all to make gold. Now that I have abandoned the trade system, I have no guilds... Where in other games my characters are in a single guild with people I enjoy playing with rather than people I need to use for gold, ESO guilds are almost useless to me outside of gaining gold.

@Emencie
I'd rather let ppl explain themselves. We can only go off what's written.

If you scroll up you'd see I've addressed the issue but the desires not to need to be in a guild at all....that's a whole different topic

In my opinion that's also a whole different game desire that exists in many forms in good qualities

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

I quite simply want something that is inclusive of all people.

A while ago I suggested that each zone should have it's own Trader (Just One) where everyone can come a put things up for sale.

This would of work wonderfully before 1T as it would mean in the Starter Area you would have low levels putting Low Level gear for sale, so as you progressed in levels you would of been able to find gear matching your level, which we all know is impossible in the current system.

I don't believe Guild Traders work for Several reasons;

Inclusive, they are not, as there is a finite number of people who can trade.
Lack of variety, you can only list 30 items and you pay a tax you don't get back, so you only sell what you know will sell.
Convenience, no one is, as many mention, going to go round 170 traders to check everything. This also makes some Trader completely pointless.
Guild monopoly, we know there are now guildes which are multiples of the same guild. Some of these guilds are using there position to remove competition
Supply and Demand is failing because there is only a limited people able to supply the demand.

But I don't think ZOS have the ability to change the system, it would be nice if ZOS would let us know then we could avoid these posts.

@Cherryblossom

I honestly hear what you and others are saying who suggest this is what you want.

I comprehend the logic behind it all but I disagree that it's the experience that you want.

It comes with pros and cons and from my point of view, the cons outweight the pros as you wrote above.

I do think what better aligns with what you and many others want could be achieved better (not the same) by doing the following:

1. Each current trader spot would have 5 different guild slots rather than one. (A guild can't win a spot in that zone more than twice in 4 weeks, not a month but a rolling 4 weeks)
2. For guilds who don't have traders, they can link up to 5 more guild stores without the need of joining another guild


This effectively opens up everyone to more stores whether they use a trader or not. It also doesn't destroy the economy and keeps the negative impacts to any more open markets to a minimum as well as being easily tracked.

Just opening up stuff and abandoning the systems isn't as simple as just changing things. You'd effectively destroy and loose a lot as well as people

What other major important concept that's being ignored is the value of a guild if a global or zone auction house or an open market trader were added.

See I do also understand that many are saying. I shouldn't have to join a guild to participate in the market. No you don't BUT the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines.

A lot of you really want a single player game with some multiplayer modes....I'm fighting against those ideas and some of that is contained in the comments of others.

More nonsense.

Guilds are huge part of games with AH type systems, and in my experience tend to be much more social / group oriented, heck I have a guild in WoW (which I haven't played much in the past month or so) that I chat with on my phone quite often.

From what I've seen in most trade guilds in ESO, social interaction is very limited as most players are only in trading guilds to have a place to list items, and most players in trading guilds could care less about the others as far as game play goes.

I get what you are saying regarding your position that you like the current system - fair enough.

But telling other people they don't really want a different system or are somehow anti social players that just want a single player game is insulting.

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Unfortunately, the way the guild trader system currently works, we have a large number of traders in inconvenient and rarely traveled spots and a very small number in the top trading cities.

I'd love to see more traders added to each of the major towns, multiple traders added to the outlaw refuges in popular towns and perhaps move some of the NPC locations so they are all very close to a wayshrine. Would also be great if several guild traders were added to the towns in Cyrodiil such as Cropsford, Cheydinhal, Bruma, Vlastarus and Chorrol.

You may as well just add a global auction house at that point - which would be the next logical step. Because what you are asking for here is that the economy be made more centralized in popular locations so it will be convenient to use - which is exactly what a global auction house does. That is the entire point of it. The only difference between your solution and that of a global auction house is players would have to run around to different NPCs inside the town to check what's for sale instead of a single one. I don't understand why that would be so important. But since since it seems to be to so many of these guild trader advocates - maybe a compromise?

We could implement a global auction house yet attach numerous NPCs to the system with a cap on how many players could shop at any individual NPC at any one time? That way we would have the benefits of a global auction house economy while those who like to run around shopping at different NPCs can still get their thrills. We could even call it a global trade system instead of a global auction house system.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

I quite simply want something that is inclusive of all people.

A while ago I suggested that each zone should have it's own Trader (Just One) where everyone can come a put things up for sale.

This would of work wonderfully before 1T as it would mean in the Starter Area you would have low levels putting Low Level gear for sale, so as you progressed in levels you would of been able to find gear matching your level, which we all know is impossible in the current system.

I don't believe Guild Traders work for Several reasons;

Inclusive, they are not, as there is a finite number of people who can trade.
Lack of variety, you can only list 30 items and you pay a tax you don't get back, so you only sell what you know will sell.
Convenience, no one is, as many mention, going to go round 170 traders to check everything. This also makes some Trader completely pointless.
Guild monopoly, we know there are now guildes which are multiples of the same guild. Some of these guilds are using there position to remove competition
Supply and Demand is failing because there is only a limited people able to supply the demand.

But I don't think ZOS have the ability to change the system, it would be nice if ZOS would let us know then we could avoid these posts.

@Cherryblossom

I honestly hear what you and others are saying who suggest this is what you want.

I comprehend the logic behind it all but I disagree that it's the experience that you want.

It comes with pros and cons and from my point of view, the cons outweight the pros as you wrote above.

I do think what better aligns with what you and many others want could be achieved better (not the same) by doing the following:

1. Each current trader spot would have 5 different guild slots rather than one. (A guild can't win a spot in that zone more than twice in 4 weeks, not a month but a rolling 4 weeks)
2. For guilds who don't have traders, they can link up to 5 more guild stores without the need of joining another guild


This effectively opens up everyone to more stores whether they use a trader or not. It also doesn't destroy the economy and keeps the negative impacts to any more open markets to a minimum as well as being easily tracked.

Just opening up stuff and abandoning the systems isn't as simple as just changing things. You'd effectively destroy and loose a lot as well as people

What other major important concept that's being ignored is the value of a guild if a global or zone auction house or an open market trader were added.

See I do also understand that many are saying. I shouldn't have to join a guild to participate in the market. No you don't BUT the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines.

A lot of you really want a single player game with some multiplayer modes....I'm fighting against those ideas and some of that is contained in the comments of others.

Your suggested system fails to address the concerns about the present system because it is still dependent on guild membership.

Your claim that "the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines" is entirely subjective, and really isn't proven by the success of MMOs generally - none of which, apart from this one, require guild membership as a pre-requisite of participating in the trading system. Personally, I'd be very happy to interact with other players through trading but as I have no interest in guilds (although I interact with other players in other ways) and cannot in any event sustain the level of trading that would allow me to stay in a trading guild that option for interaction is closed to me.

This really doesn't need to be turned into yet another "old chestnut" discussion about soloing in MMOs. However, games that force one playstyle or another tend to be the least successful ones, these days it's all about developers catering for everyone in a mainstream game, less so in a niche title with limited appeal and ambition, and players then having the freedom of choice as to how they approach the game.

My real concern is that the core elements of any MMO should be open to all and not subject to artificial barriers such as guild membership, level, alliance, race or class etc. Trading is just such a core element and just as I'm sure we could agree that it shouldn't be restricted according to the character's level, alliance, race or class, I also think it shouldn't be restricted according to whether you belong to a guild or not - and under the current system further restricted according to whether or not the guild has bid successfully for a trader.

Keep the present system by all means, but open it up by having a few NPC traders who can take listings from those not in a successful trading guild, subject to a strict limit on the number of items that can be listed by a player and with a higher commission rate that would be split between the guilds trading in those locations. The casual trader would be happy, the hardcore trader would be happy, and the trading guilds would also be happy. Casual traders would benefit from the opportunity to sell the odd surplus item, the trading guilds would benefit from them doing so, and the hardcore traders would still have every reason to belong to trading guilds. It's a win/win situation, and one which doesn't force any particular playstyle on anyone.

@Tandor

Then by design since closed beta most of this game doesn't fit your desires.

Shrug it's not even worth discussing cause to suggest that the core design isn't what this person or that person wants begs the question....are you sure cause you're still here and there's been more added features in the direction than against.

It's not a win-win at all which is why it's designed in the way it still exists. With all the major changes....at its core...it's the same game with QoL updates

I've played the game since PC launch and it has fitted my desires in every single respect except the trading system.

Beyond your first sentence, however, I've really no idea what you're saying. Certainly nothing that addresses my suggested improvement to the existing trading system.

@Tandor

Simply put...TES series and it's stories and centered around guilds and how their involvement and influences create stores tales and experiences all placed against deadra


To suggest that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of the game...based on the series but more accurately based on the very early 2012 talks of the design which isn't a change....you're talking about making it some other game.

Everything should not be open....that's not even what many want. People just want to sale things and find places to buy more efficiently.

Please tell me where I said that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of the game, or where I said everything should be open.

You say that people just want to sell things, and I agree. They should be able to do so without playstyle conditions attached, and my suggestion would enable that without in any way impacting on the existing guilds other than by generating some additional revenue for them.

@Tandor

Your written words in context say point blank that so sorry if I missunderstood what you wrote.

In bold, I put it below with no edits from what you just wrote. How should I have interpreted that whole paragraph?

"My real concern is that the core elements of any MMO should be open to all and not subject to artificial barriers such as guild membership, level, alliance, race or class etc. Trading is just such a core element and just as I'm sure we could agree that it shouldn't be restricted according to the character's level, alliance, race or class, I also think it shouldn't be restricted according to whether you belong to a guild or not - and under the current system further restricted according to whether or not the guild has bid successfully for a trader."

My written words do not say that guilds should not be intricate to the game, nor that everything should be open. They say precisely what they say - core elements of the game should be open to all, and trading is a core element of the game.

I have no issue with guilds being intricate to the game, nor to them being intricate to the trading system. Hence I am not advocating an auction house or other alternative system to the present one. However, I prefer a guild-based trading system to a guild-dependent one, and that is the basis of my suggested slight opening up of the system to allow the continuation of the present guild trader structure while enhancing it to allow casual traders and those in unsuccessful guilds also to trade in a very restricted way, to the benefit of the trading guilds. I have yet to see any response from you to the suggestion I actually made, rather than tangential responses based on what you'd like to think I said.

Emencie wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

I quite simply want something that is inclusive of all people.

A while ago I suggested that each zone should have it's own Trader (Just One) where everyone can come a put things up for sale.

This would of work wonderfully before 1T as it would mean in the Starter Area you would have low levels putting Low Level gear for sale, so as you progressed in levels you would of been able to find gear matching your level, which we all know is impossible in the current system.

I don't believe Guild Traders work for Several reasons;

Inclusive, they are not, as there is a finite number of people who can trade.
Lack of variety, you can only list 30 items and you pay a tax you don't get back, so you only sell what you know will sell.
Convenience, no one is, as many mention, going to go round 170 traders to check everything. This also makes some Trader completely pointless.
Guild monopoly, we know there are now guildes which are multiples of the same guild. Some of these guilds are using there position to remove competition
Supply and Demand is failing because there is only a limited people able to supply the demand.

But I don't think ZOS have the ability to change the system, it would be nice if ZOS would let us know then we could avoid these posts.

@Cherryblossom

I honestly hear what you and others are saying who suggest this is what you want.

I comprehend the logic behind it all but I disagree that it's the experience that you want.

It comes with pros and cons and from my point of view, the cons outweight the pros as you wrote above.

I do think what better aligns with what you and many others want could be achieved better (not the same) by doing the following:

1. Each current trader spot would have 5 different guild slots rather than one. (A guild can't win a spot in that zone more than twice in 4 weeks, not a month but a rolling 4 weeks)
2. For guilds who don't have traders, they can link up to 5 more guild stores without the need of joining another guild


This effectively opens up everyone to more stores whether they use a trader or not. It also doesn't destroy the economy and keeps the negative impacts to any more open markets to a minimum as well as being easily tracked.

Just opening up stuff and abandoning the systems isn't as simple as just changing things. You'd effectively destroy and loose a lot as well as people

What other major important concept that's being ignored is the value of a guild if a global or zone auction house or an open market trader were added.

See I do also understand that many are saying. I shouldn't have to join a guild to participate in the market. No you don't BUT the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines.

A lot of you really want a single player game with some multiplayer modes....I'm fighting against those ideas and some of that is contained in the comments of others.

Your suggested system fails to address the concerns about the present system because it is still dependent on guild membership.

Your claim that "the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines" is entirely subjective, and really isn't proven by the success of MMOs generally - none of which, apart from this one, require guild membership as a pre-requisite of participating in the trading system. Personally, I'd be very happy to interact with other players through trading but as I have no interest in guilds (although I interact with other players in other ways) and cannot in any event sustain the level of trading that would allow me to stay in a trading guild that option for interaction is closed to me.

This really doesn't need to be turned into yet another "old chestnut" discussion about soloing in MMOs. However, games that force one playstyle or another tend to be the least successful ones, these days it's all about developers catering for everyone in a mainstream game, less so in a niche title with limited appeal and ambition, and players then having the freedom of choice as to how they approach the game.

My real concern is that the core elements of any MMO should be open to all and not subject to artificial barriers such as guild membership, level, alliance, race or class etc. Trading is just such a core element and just as I'm sure we could agree that it shouldn't be restricted according to the character's level, alliance, race or class, I also think it shouldn't be restricted according to whether you belong to a guild or not - and under the current system further restricted according to whether or not the guild has bid successfully for a trader.

Keep the present system by all means, but open it up by having a few NPC traders who can take listings from those not in a successful trading guild, subject to a strict limit on the number of items that can be listed by a player and with a higher commission rate that would be split between the guilds trading in those locations. The casual trader would be happy, the hardcore trader would be happy, and the trading guilds would also be happy. Casual traders would benefit from the opportunity to sell the odd surplus item, the trading guilds would benefit from them doing so, and the hardcore traders would still have every reason to belong to trading guilds. It's a win/win situation, and one which doesn't force any particular playstyle on anyone.

@Tandor

Then by design since closed beta most of this game doesn't fit your desires.

Shrug it's not even worth discussing cause to suggest that the core design isn't what this person or that person wants begs the question....are you sure cause you're still here and there's been more added features in the direction than against.

It's not a win-win at all which is why it's designed in the way it still exists. With all the major changes....at its core...it's the same game with QoL updates

I've played the game since PC launch and it has fitted my desires in every single respect except the trading system.

Beyond your first sentence, however, I've really no idea what you're saying. Certainly nothing that addresses my suggested improvement to the existing trading system.

@Tandor

Simply put...TES series and it's stories and centered around guilds and how their involvement and influences create stores tales and experiences all placed against deadra


To suggest that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of the game...based on the series but more accurately based on the very early 2012 talks of the design which isn't a change....you're talking about making it some other game.

Everything should not be open....that's not even what many want. People just want to sale things and find places to buy more efficiently.

Please tell me where I said that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of the game, or where I said everything should be open.

You say that people just want to sell things, and I agree. They should be able to do so without playstyle conditions attached, and my suggestion would enable that without in any way impacting on the existing guilds other than by generating some additional revenue for them.

@Tandor

Your written words in context say point blank that so sorry if I missunderstood what you wrote.

In bold, I put it below with no edits from what you just wrote. How should I have interpreted that whole paragraph?

"My real concern is that the core elements of any MMO should be open to all and not subject to artificial barriers such as guild membership, level, alliance, race or class etc. Trading is just such a core element and just as I'm sure we could agree that it shouldn't be restricted according to the character's level, alliance, race or class, I also think it shouldn't be restricted according to whether you belong to a guild or not - and under the current system further restricted according to whether or not the guild has bid successfully for a trader."

I'm pretty sure what he means by that is that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of trade.

In fact because of the trade system, and needing to have a guild to access only 500 people to sell and trade with, not to mention the way the top merchant guilds are run, I would say that having a guild is less important to ESO than any other MMO I've ever played.

My character was in 5 trade guilds which amounted to 5 guilds of nameless faceless people I simply used to make gold, while the leadership used us all to make gold. Now that I have abandoned the trade system, I have no guilds... Where in other games my characters are in a single guild with people I enjoy playing with rather than people I need to use for gold, ESO guilds are almost useless to me outside of gaining gold.

@Emencie
I'd rather let ppl explain themselves. We can only go off what's written.

If you scroll up you'd see I've addressed the issue but the desires not to need to be in a guild at all....that's a whole different topic

In my opinion that's also a whole different game desire that exists in many forms in good qualities

You have some good ideas, but none of them address most of our biggest problem with the trade system in ESO. If I can explain with examples...

In WoW when you create a character, there is a moderate walk (at level 1) to the nearest major city. Once you have arrived finding the Auction house is as simple as asking an NPC for directions. Once there you have access to a trading hub that lets you access goods to buy from, or sell to every other player in the server.

In SWTOR when you create a character, you are on a planet with a few hours of tutorial questing that teaches you the basics of the game. Afterwards, you are taken to a space station for your faction. A quick look at the map details the galactic trade network, where you now have access to a trading hub that lets you buy from, or sell to every other player on your server/faction.

In FF14 when you get a character to level 17, you receive a quest detailing how to obtain a retainer, in that quest chain you also learn how to place items on the market board using this retainer. Once you have customized your new slave... Err... Retainer... You now have access to buying from, and selling to, every other player in the server.

In Eve online when you create a new pilot you are one jump away from the nearest station, after a very short tutorial that does not in any way prepare you for the most wretched hive of scum and villainy you have just joined, you can dock at this station where you can post buy and sell orders on the market, which is available to every player in the entire game.

In Guild wars 2 once you create a character you have a very short tutorial which dumps you into the main city. A look at the map will show you where the auction house is, and you can then start to buy and sell with every other player in the game.

Some of these options have player controlled aspects, like space stations in Eve that are owned by certain corps, while others are completely owned and financed by NPCs like WoW. Some of them deliver goods directly to your inventory from anywhere in the world, Some you have to pick up your goods from the location they were posted, and some mail you your goods. Some take a large cut of your money when listing, Some let you list for free or cheap.

But the thing they all have in common is simple. Everyone has trade access to their entire server of players from very easy to reach locations and can opt into trade with little trouble. This is what the people who are for an AH system want.

And it's hard to understand why people are against it because we know for a fact that the system works well, as all of the games I listed and many more have one. None of those games have a crumbling economy, and many of them have a more sustainable economy than ESO some of which are completely player controlled. So we know for a fact it works fine.

@Emencie

Those games by server design aren't nearly the same as ESO. Why some are against a global AH

Me specifically is due to actual observations and experiences in a few of the games you listed above. While each game is different you're identifying games that had by design a drop rate and drop item type which was intended to be shared or sold. Not all items obviously but the intent in some of those was based on restrictions.

In most if not all (I haven't played....all of them) you couldn't complete your profession or interact with a BoP drop. Many of those games also have limited access meaning or comparing to ESO it would be as if ESO mega servers had factions completely seperated.

Take for instance if for PvE, only one third of the entire map was accessible. Then you'd have traders where they are but they wouldn't be spread out because they are in towns you frequently visit as you level up (pre One Tamriel)

The games population (arguably) is a lot lower at one given time compared to many different times of those you've listed.

What I've experienced, been a part of and observed are strategies and schemes usually by means of add-ons and third party guides with or without add-ons of how to drill down on an item or group of items and pool resources in order to corner markets.

That happens here but it's in such small groups it's not a detriment to the overall economy or population.

See if you were to offer global AH, or open market trading where people without affiliations could list, buy and sale items whether online or offline, because of the above, you're opening up the game to negative schemes.

I'm not saying and most others aren't arguing that more people don't want access or that more people wouldn't be able to sale things with more access alone. We are saying that more access comes with many other factors.

If you actually look at many of those other games, they don't actually have open markets either.

What you're seeing is within the limited closed structure, it seems open to everyone you see, but it's not open to everyone in America or everyone in EU on one platform.

To better explain what we hear when you ask for a global AH or an open access market, using the example of WoW would be as if you asked Blizzard to open up the auction house to all Alliance, Horde and combined every US East servers AH into one

Literally and not figuratively, that's what you all are asking for but in reading that's not actually what everyone means. Maybe it is what you mean but I'd argue that many of us can agree that it's not what would be best.

Especially considering there are no barriers

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

I quite simply want something that is inclusive of all people.

A while ago I suggested that each zone should have it's own Trader (Just One) where everyone can come a put things up for sale.

This would of work wonderfully before 1T as it would mean in the Starter Area you would have low levels putting Low Level gear for sale, so as you progressed in levels you would of been able to find gear matching your level, which we all know is impossible in the current system.

I don't believe Guild Traders work for Several reasons;

Inclusive, they are not, as there is a finite number of people who can trade.
Lack of variety, you can only list 30 items and you pay a tax you don't get back, so you only sell what you know will sell.
Convenience, no one is, as many mention, going to go round 170 traders to check everything. This also makes some Trader completely pointless.
Guild monopoly, we know there are now guildes which are multiples of the same guild. Some of these guilds are using there position to remove competition
Supply and Demand is failing because there is only a limited people able to supply the demand.

But I don't think ZOS have the ability to change the system, it would be nice if ZOS would let us know then we could avoid these posts.

@Cherryblossom

I honestly hear what you and others are saying who suggest this is what you want.

I comprehend the logic behind it all but I disagree that it's the experience that you want.

It comes with pros and cons and from my point of view, the cons outweight the pros as you wrote above.

I do think what better aligns with what you and many others want could be achieved better (not the same) by doing the following:

1. Each current trader spot would have 5 different guild slots rather than one. (A guild can't win a spot in that zone more than twice in 4 weeks, not a month but a rolling 4 weeks)
2. For guilds who don't have traders, they can link up to 5 more guild stores without the need of joining another guild


This effectively opens up everyone to more stores whether they use a trader or not. It also doesn't destroy the economy and keeps the negative impacts to any more open markets to a minimum as well as being easily tracked.

Just opening up stuff and abandoning the systems isn't as simple as just changing things. You'd effectively destroy and loose a lot as well as people

What other major important concept that's being ignored is the value of a guild if a global or zone auction house or an open market trader were added.

See I do also understand that many are saying. I shouldn't have to join a guild to participate in the market. No you don't BUT the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines.

A lot of you really want a single player game with some multiplayer modes....I'm fighting against those ideas and some of that is contained in the comments of others.

Your suggested system fails to address the concerns about the present system because it is still dependent on guild membership.

Your claim that "the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines" is entirely subjective, and really isn't proven by the success of MMOs generally - none of which, apart from this one, require guild membership as a pre-requisite of participating in the trading system. Personally, I'd be very happy to interact with other players through trading but as I have no interest in guilds (although I interact with other players in other ways) and cannot in any event sustain the level of trading that would allow me to stay in a trading guild that option for interaction is closed to me.

This really doesn't need to be turned into yet another "old chestnut" discussion about soloing in MMOs. However, games that force one playstyle or another tend to be the least successful ones, these days it's all about developers catering for everyone in a mainstream game, less so in a niche title with limited appeal and ambition, and players then having the freedom of choice as to how they approach the game.

My real concern is that the core elements of any MMO should be open to all and not subject to artificial barriers such as guild membership, level, alliance, race or class etc. Trading is just such a core element and just as I'm sure we could agree that it shouldn't be restricted according to the character's level, alliance, race or class, I also think it shouldn't be restricted according to whether you belong to a guild or not - and under the current system further restricted according to whether or not the guild has bid successfully for a trader.

Keep the present system by all means, but open it up by having a few NPC traders who can take listings from those not in a successful trading guild, subject to a strict limit on the number of items that can be listed by a player and with a higher commission rate that would be split between the guilds trading in those locations. The casual trader would be happy, the hardcore trader would be happy, and the trading guilds would also be happy. Casual traders would benefit from the opportunity to sell the odd surplus item, the trading guilds would benefit from them doing so, and the hardcore traders would still have every reason to belong to trading guilds. It's a win/win situation, and one which doesn't force any particular playstyle on anyone.

@Tandor

Then by design since closed beta most of this game doesn't fit your desires.

Shrug it's not even worth discussing cause to suggest that the core design isn't what this person or that person wants begs the question....are you sure cause you're still here and there's been more added features in the direction than against.

It's not a win-win at all which is why it's designed in the way it still exists. With all the major changes....at its core...it's the same game with QoL updates

I've played the game since PC launch and it has fitted my desires in every single respect except the trading system.

Beyond your first sentence, however, I've really no idea what you're saying. Certainly nothing that addresses my suggested improvement to the existing trading system.

@Tandor

Simply put...TES series and it's stories and centered around guilds and how their involvement and influences create stores tales and experiences all placed against deadra


To suggest that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of the game...based on the series but more accurately based on the very early 2012 talks of the design which isn't a change....you're talking about making it some other game.

Everything should not be open....that's not even what many want. People just want to sale things and find places to buy more efficiently.

Please tell me where I said that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of the game, or where I said everything should be open.

You say that people just want to sell things, and I agree. They should be able to do so without playstyle conditions attached, and my suggestion would enable that without in any way impacting on the existing guilds other than by generating some additional revenue for them.

@Tandor

Your written words in context say point blank that so sorry if I missunderstood what you wrote.

In bold, I put it below with no edits from what you just wrote. How should I have interpreted that whole paragraph?

"My real concern is that the core elements of any MMO should be open to all and not subject to artificial barriers such as guild membership, level, alliance, race or class etc. Trading is just such a core element and just as I'm sure we could agree that it shouldn't be restricted according to the character's level, alliance, race or class, I also think it shouldn't be restricted according to whether you belong to a guild or not - and under the current system further restricted according to whether or not the guild has bid successfully for a trader."

I'm pretty sure what he means by that is that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of trade.

In fact because of the trade system, and needing to have a guild to access only 500 people to sell and trade with, not to mention the way the top merchant guilds are run, I would say that having a guild is less important to ESO than any other MMO I've ever played.

My character was in 5 trade guilds which amounted to 5 guilds of nameless faceless people I simply used to make gold, while the leadership used us all to make gold. Now that I have abandoned the trade system, I have no guilds... Where in other games my characters are in a single guild with people I enjoy playing with rather than people I need to use for gold, ESO guilds are almost useless to me outside of gaining gold.

@Emencie
I'd rather let ppl explain themselves. We can only go off what's written.

If you scroll up you'd see I've addressed the issue but the desires not to need to be in a guild at all....that's a whole different topic

In my opinion that's also a whole different game desire that exists in many forms in good qualities

You have some good ideas, but none of them address most of our biggest problem with the trade system in ESO. If I can explain with examples...

In WoW when you create a character, there is a moderate walk (at level 1) to the nearest major city. Once you have arrived finding the Auction house is as simple as asking an NPC for directions. Once there you have access to a trading hub that lets you access goods to buy from, or sell to every other player in the server.

In SWTOR when you create a character, you are on a planet with a few hours of tutorial questing that teaches you the basics of the game. Afterwards, you are taken to a space station for your faction. A quick look at the map details the galactic trade network, where you now have access to a trading hub that lets you buy from, or sell to every other player on your server/faction.

In FF14 when you get a character to level 17, you receive a quest detailing how to obtain a retainer, in that quest chain you also learn how to place items on the market board using this retainer. Once you have customized your new slave... Err... Retainer... You now have access to buying from, and selling to, every other player in the server.

In Eve online when you create a new pilot you are one jump away from the nearest station, after a very short tutorial that does not in any way prepare you for the most wretched hive of scum and villainy you have just joined, you can dock at this station where you can post buy and sell orders on the market, which is available to every player in the entire game.

In Guild wars 2 once you create a character you have a very short tutorial which dumps you into the main city. A look at the map will show you where the auction house is, and you can then start to buy and sell with every other player in the game.

Some of these options have player controlled aspects, like space stations in Eve that are owned by certain corps, while others are completely owned and financed by NPCs like WoW. Some of them deliver goods directly to your inventory from anywhere in the world, Some you have to pick up your goods from the location they were posted, and some mail you your goods. Some take a large cut of your money when listing, Some let you list for free or cheap.

But the thing they all have in common is simple. Everyone has trade access to their entire server of players from very easy to reach locations and can opt into trade with little trouble. This is what the people who are for an AH system want.

And it's hard to understand why people are against it because we know for a fact that the system works well, as all of the games I listed and many more have one. None of those games have a crumbling economy, and many of them have a more sustainable economy than ESO some of which are completely player controlled. So we know for a fact it works fine.

@Emencie

Those games by server design aren't nearly the same as ESO. Why some are against a global AH

Me specifically is due to actual observations and experiences in a few of the games you listed above. While each game is different you're identifying games that had by design a drop rate and drop item type which was intended to be shared or sold. Not all items obviously but the intent in some of those was based on restrictions.

In most if not all (I haven't played....all of them) you couldn't complete your profession or interact with a BoP drop. Many of those games also have limited access meaning or comparing to ESO it would be as if ESO mega servers had factions completely seperated.

Take for instance if for PvE, only one third of the entire map was accessible. Then you'd have traders where they are but they wouldn't be spread out because they are in towns you frequently visit as you level up (pre One Tamriel)

The games population (arguably) is a lot lower at one given time compared to many different times of those you've listed.

What I've experienced, been a part of and observed are strategies and schemes usually by means of add-ons and third party guides with or without add-ons of how to drill down on an item or group of items and pool resources in order to corner markets.

That happens here but it's in such small groups it's not a detriment to the overall economy or population.

See if you were to offer global AH, or open market trading where people without affiliations could list, buy and sale items whether online or offline, because of the above, you're opening up the game to negative schemes.

I'm not saying and most others aren't arguing that more people don't want access or that more people wouldn't be able to sale things with more access alone. We are saying that more access comes with many other factors.

If you actually look at many of those other games, they don't actually have open markets either.

What you're seeing is within the limited closed structure, it seems open to everyone you see, but it's not open to everyone in America or everyone in EU on one platform.

To better explain what we hear when you ask for a global AH or an open access market, using the example of WoW would be as if you asked Blizzard to open up the auction house to all Alliance, Horde and combined every US East servers AH into one

Literally and not figuratively, that's what you all are asking for but in reading that's not actually what everyone means. Maybe it is what you mean but I'd argue that many of us can agree that it's not what would be best.

Especially considering there are no barriers

Nice mansplaining...

I get it, you don't want an open competitive marketplace - fine.

But continuing to push your opinion as fact while insinuating those with a different opinion are too stupid to understand is, as I said before, insulting.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

I quite simply want something that is inclusive of all people.

A while ago I suggested that each zone should have it's own Trader (Just One) where everyone can come a put things up for sale.

This would of work wonderfully before 1T as it would mean in the Starter Area you would have low levels putting Low Level gear for sale, so as you progressed in levels you would of been able to find gear matching your level, which we all know is impossible in the current system.

I don't believe Guild Traders work for Several reasons;

Inclusive, they are not, as there is a finite number of people who can trade.
Lack of variety, you can only list 30 items and you pay a tax you don't get back, so you only sell what you know will sell.
Convenience, no one is, as many mention, going to go round 170 traders to check everything. This also makes some Trader completely pointless.
Guild monopoly, we know there are now guildes which are multiples of the same guild. Some of these guilds are using there position to remove competition
Supply and Demand is failing because there is only a limited people able to supply the demand.

But I don't think ZOS have the ability to change the system, it would be nice if ZOS would let us know then we could avoid these posts.

@Cherryblossom

I honestly hear what you and others are saying who suggest this is what you want.

I comprehend the logic behind it all but I disagree that it's the experience that you want.

It comes with pros and cons and from my point of view, the cons outweight the pros as you wrote above.

I do think what better aligns with what you and many others want could be achieved better (not the same) by doing the following:

1. Each current trader spot would have 5 different guild slots rather than one. (A guild can't win a spot in that zone more than twice in 4 weeks, not a month but a rolling 4 weeks)
2. For guilds who don't have traders, they can link up to 5 more guild stores without the need of joining another guild


This effectively opens up everyone to more stores whether they use a trader or not. It also doesn't destroy the economy and keeps the negative impacts to any more open markets to a minimum as well as being easily tracked.

Just opening up stuff and abandoning the systems isn't as simple as just changing things. You'd effectively destroy and loose a lot as well as people

What other major important concept that's being ignored is the value of a guild if a global or zone auction house or an open market trader were added.

See I do also understand that many are saying. I shouldn't have to join a guild to participate in the market. No you don't BUT the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines.

A lot of you really want a single player game with some multiplayer modes....I'm fighting against those ideas and some of that is contained in the comments of others.

Your suggested system fails to address the concerns about the present system because it is still dependent on guild membership.

Your claim that "the MMO server games that force social interactions tend to provide better overall experiences than those which are set up for solo only and free roaming with lack of form and routines" is entirely subjective, and really isn't proven by the success of MMOs generally - none of which, apart from this one, require guild membership as a pre-requisite of participating in the trading system. Personally, I'd be very happy to interact with other players through trading but as I have no interest in guilds (although I interact with other players in other ways) and cannot in any event sustain the level of trading that would allow me to stay in a trading guild that option for interaction is closed to me.

This really doesn't need to be turned into yet another "old chestnut" discussion about soloing in MMOs. However, games that force one playstyle or another tend to be the least successful ones, these days it's all about developers catering for everyone in a mainstream game, less so in a niche title with limited appeal and ambition, and players then having the freedom of choice as to how they approach the game.

My real concern is that the core elements of any MMO should be open to all and not subject to artificial barriers such as guild membership, level, alliance, race or class etc. Trading is just such a core element and just as I'm sure we could agree that it shouldn't be restricted according to the character's level, alliance, race or class, I also think it shouldn't be restricted according to whether you belong to a guild or not - and under the current system further restricted according to whether or not the guild has bid successfully for a trader.

Keep the present system by all means, but open it up by having a few NPC traders who can take listings from those not in a successful trading guild, subject to a strict limit on the number of items that can be listed by a player and with a higher commission rate that would be split between the guilds trading in those locations. The casual trader would be happy, the hardcore trader would be happy, and the trading guilds would also be happy. Casual traders would benefit from the opportunity to sell the odd surplus item, the trading guilds would benefit from them doing so, and the hardcore traders would still have every reason to belong to trading guilds. It's a win/win situation, and one which doesn't force any particular playstyle on anyone.

@Tandor

Then by design since closed beta most of this game doesn't fit your desires.

Shrug it's not even worth discussing cause to suggest that the core design isn't what this person or that person wants begs the question....are you sure cause you're still here and there's been more added features in the direction than against.

It's not a win-win at all which is why it's designed in the way it still exists. With all the major changes....at its core...it's the same game with QoL updates

I've played the game since PC launch and it has fitted my desires in every single respect except the trading system.

Beyond your first sentence, however, I've really no idea what you're saying. Certainly nothing that addresses my suggested improvement to the existing trading system.

@Tandor

Simply put...TES series and it's stories and centered around guilds and how their involvement and influences create stores tales and experiences all placed against deadra


To suggest that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of the game...based on the series but more accurately based on the very early 2012 talks of the design which isn't a change....you're talking about making it some other game.

Everything should not be open....that's not even what many want. People just want to sale things and find places to buy more efficiently.

Please tell me where I said that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of the game, or where I said everything should be open.

You say that people just want to sell things, and I agree. They should be able to do so without playstyle conditions attached, and my suggestion would enable that without in any way impacting on the existing guilds other than by generating some additional revenue for them.

@Tandor

Your written words in context say point blank that so sorry if I missunderstood what you wrote.

In bold, I put it below with no edits from what you just wrote. How should I have interpreted that whole paragraph?

"My real concern is that the core elements of any MMO should be open to all and not subject to artificial barriers such as guild membership, level, alliance, race or class etc. Trading is just such a core element and just as I'm sure we could agree that it shouldn't be restricted according to the character's level, alliance, race or class, I also think it shouldn't be restricted according to whether you belong to a guild or not - and under the current system further restricted according to whether or not the guild has bid successfully for a trader."

I'm pretty sure what he means by that is that guilds shouldn't be an intricate part of trade.

In fact because of the trade system, and needing to have a guild to access only 500 people to sell and trade with, not to mention the way the top merchant guilds are run, I would say that having a guild is less important to ESO than any other MMO I've ever played.

My character was in 5 trade guilds which amounted to 5 guilds of nameless faceless people I simply used to make gold, while the leadership used us all to make gold. Now that I have abandoned the trade system, I have no guilds... Where in other games my characters are in a single guild with people I enjoy playing with rather than people I need to use for gold, ESO guilds are almost useless to me outside of gaining gold.

@Emencie
I'd rather let ppl explain themselves. We can only go off what's written.

If you scroll up you'd see I've addressed the issue but the desires not to need to be in a guild at all....that's a whole different topic

In my opinion that's also a whole different game desire that exists in many forms in good qualities

You have some good ideas, but none of them address most of our biggest problem with the trade system in ESO. If I can explain with examples...

In WoW when you create a character, there is a moderate walk (at level 1) to the nearest major city. Once you have arrived finding the Auction house is as simple as asking an NPC for directions. Once there you have access to a trading hub that lets you access goods to buy from, or sell to every other player in the server.

In SWTOR when you create a character, you are on a planet with a few hours of tutorial questing that teaches you the basics of the game. Afterwards, you are taken to a space station for your faction. A quick look at the map details the galactic trade network, where you now have access to a trading hub that lets you buy from, or sell to every other player on your server/faction.

In FF14 when you get a character to level 17, you receive a quest detailing how to obtain a retainer, in that quest chain you also learn how to place items on the market board using this retainer. Once you have customized your new slave... Err... Retainer... You now have access to buying from, and selling to, every other player in the server.

In Eve online when you create a new pilot you are one jump away from the nearest station, after a very short tutorial that does not in any way prepare you for the most wretched hive of scum and villainy you have just joined, you can dock at this station where you can post buy and sell orders on the market, which is available to every player in the entire game.

In Guild wars 2 once you create a character you have a very short tutorial which dumps you into the main city. A look at the map will show you where the auction house is, and you can then start to buy and sell with every other player in the game.

Some of these options have player controlled aspects, like space stations in Eve that are owned by certain corps, while others are completely owned and financed by NPCs like WoW. Some of them deliver goods directly to your inventory from anywhere in the world, Some you have to pick up your goods from the location they were posted, and some mail you your goods. Some take a large cut of your money when listing, Some let you list for free or cheap.

But the thing they all have in common is simple. Everyone has trade access to their entire server of players from very easy to reach locations and can opt into trade with little trouble. This is what the people who are for an AH system want.

And it's hard to understand why people are against it because we know for a fact that the system works well, as all of the games I listed and many more have one. None of those games have a crumbling economy, and many of them have a more sustainable economy than ESO some of which are completely player controlled. So we know for a fact it works fine.

@Emencie

Those games by server design aren't nearly the same as ESO. Why some are against a global AH

Me specifically is due to actual observations and experiences in a few of the games you listed above. While each game is different you're identifying games that had by design a drop rate and drop item type which was intended to be shared or sold. Not all items obviously but the intent in some of those was based on restrictions.

In most if not all (I haven't played....all of them) you couldn't complete your profession or interact with a BoP drop. Many of those games also have limited access meaning or comparing to ESO it would be as if ESO mega servers had factions completely seperated.

Take for instance if for PvE, only one third of the entire map was accessible. Then you'd have traders where they are but they wouldn't be spread out because they are in towns you frequently visit as you level up (pre One Tamriel)

The games population (arguably) is a lot lower at one given time compared to many different times of those you've listed.

What I've experienced, been a part of and observed are strategies and schemes usually by means of add-ons and third party guides with or without add-ons of how to drill down on an item or group of items and pool resources in order to corner markets.

That happens here but it's in such small groups it's not a detriment to the overall economy or population.

See if you were to offer global AH, or open market trading where people without affiliations could list, buy and sale items whether online or offline, because of the above, you're opening up the game to negative schemes.

I'm not saying and most others aren't arguing that more people don't want access or that more people wouldn't be able to sale things with more access alone. We are saying that more access comes with many other factors.

If you actually look at many of those other games, they don't actually have open markets either.

What you're seeing is within the limited closed structure, it seems open to everyone you see, but it's not open to everyone in America or everyone in EU on one platform.

To better explain what we hear when you ask for a global AH or an open access market, using the example of WoW would be as if you asked Blizzard to open up the auction house to all Alliance, Horde and combined every US East servers AH into one

Literally and not figuratively, that's what you all are asking for but in reading that's not actually what everyone means. Maybe it is what you mean but I'd argue that many of us can agree that it's not what would be best.

Especially considering there are no barriers

Pretty much.

While the WoW example is a little much seeing how many players are involved which is more than any other game we are speaking about. I will point out that the largest WoW servers like Tichondrius, with 346,933 alliance and 553,940 horde characters does in fact have a completely cross faction auction house.

Of the other games mentioned only 1 (SWTOR) doesn't have a completely cross faction auction house, and 2 of them actually do have a completely game wide, 100%, every character on any server, global auction house. Now I do not want to get involved in a debate over how many accounts/users ESO has, but I feel that it is not significantly more than GW2 or Eve online so I seriously doubt it is a situation of impossibility to make a global AH.

Either way, this is why we know, from EQ, to Rift, to Wildstar and nearly every Triple A MMO in between, games with high BoP Games with no BoP, games with high populations, games with low populations. The system of a global AH works.

The problem you are talking about of someone cornering off a certain market in global AH systems is a self fixing scenario. Always has been, in fact if you look at guides on doing it in these games they will always tell you to quickly move on to other products. Simply put, there is an infinite source of every resource in an MMO. So it is impossible to completely take over a market, even in a Game like Eve where it's most possible, thanks to piracy.

As people corner off markets, the prices gradually rise. As the price gradually rises players take note and start to farm the item themselves to either take advantage of the new high sell price, or to get the item for themselves without paying another. (If it's EvE Piracy groups form to stop players from farming, or to steal goods farmed, then people hire bodyguards, or privateers for protection).The market is eventually flooded and the item drops down to very low prices for a time. No one farms that item anymore because it is near worthless. Players notice there is very little supply for that item and start to corner off the market to make gold. Repeat...

There are addons in WoW that actually show this market trend so you can try to jump in on the high point. I'm not as familiar with the other games as I am with Eve and WoW market trends but from simply using them I can see they are similar. It's not an issue and never was. The only way I could see it being an issue in ESO is because of the enormous gap in gold in ESO between the high end traders and the people who are not. Though I feel that would balance out as everyone has equal access to trade.

ESO could even put their own twist on a global system too. Simply by making 3 AH systems, one for each faction. They could even keep their traders even keep them owned by guilds. What if owning a trader meant that placing items on sale at that trader had a discount? What if buying from a guild owned trader gave that guild a percentage of the AH fee? You could support a particular guild, when they won the bid for a trader. What if your alliance determined your discount or fee for buying from another faction? There are ways to make it work for ESO and even unique for ESO. The point is it becomes an inclusive system, not an exclusive system.