bigdavid11b16_ESO wrote: »anyone consider how useless shattering rocks is going to be. its already underused and is rly a good skill. why would i want to offbalance everyone around me if i have to wait 3seconds to even use another lash
It's just another one of the completely useless morph options we have. Just like Hardened Armor, Reflective Plate, Frag Shield, and Cinder Storm.
Even if they change mag dk sustain you still wouldn't take one. I used to main that class but switched to stam dk cause it does WAY more damage especially with 3 more stam in different buff sets. There is no reason to take a mag dk or templar in a melee spot when you have stam setups reaching 50k+ dps by themselves. There are a ton of videos of stam doing this. I'm okay with that, but the issue here is PvP and pve balance.
This game will NEVER be balanced as long as they continue to balance the two against each other. They literally refuse to separate pve and PvP because they're lazy. I don't say that in a mean way but it was literally stated on eso live that it requires way too much work to do. After that I quit listening to anything they had to say about combat.
usmcjdking wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »Resurrect dead
Templars BiS.
On a serious note, this is the problem when ZoS holds off class balance changes while it tries to implement a fundamental change to combat. Not all classes are affected equally by the systems change in content and those that suffer the most have to wait months for ZoS to even address the fixes.
Something else about the ever anticipated "class balance" patch, when was the last time we really had one? ZoS doesn't do them anymore. Not clockwork City. . Not HOTR. It wasn't Morrowind which was a huge nerf to everyone. Probably Homestead. And categorizing that patch as one dedictated to "class blance" is questiuonable as all it did was hit me with abunch of nerfs:
- No more stun on Blazing Spear
- Radiant Destruction neutered
- Some minor changes to bad skills we dont use like Radial Sweep, Healing Ritual, Restoring Aura
If that was a class balance patch, I don't want to see another one.
DKs are going to eat this nerf and have to wait moths until the next update comes until ZoS tries to rectify the situation. Unfortunately, in the past ZoS has tended to nerf "over-performing" things so I wouldn't be surpised if the way ZoS tries to address DK sustain and PvE DPS is to nerf the other 4 classes.
@Joy_Division i dont play magplar but the blazing spears nerf is legit one of the most "wtf lol" moments in patch note history.
My most "wtf lol" moment was when they removed the CC on frags... more like a "but why" moment in the end though.
I'd have to say the biggest WTF moment in recent memory was the arbitrary second cost increase nerf to extended ritual & morphs. it used to be base 1912 magicka, got increased almost 100% to 3,810 then increased again to 4.1k.
Well, Templars had some prime real estate, and that’s always costly.
Even if they change mag dk sustain you still wouldn't take one. I used to main that class but switched to stam dk cause it does WAY more damage especially with 3 more stam in different buff sets. There is no reason to take a mag dk or templar in a melee spot when you have stam setups reaching 50k+ dps by themselves. There are a ton of videos of stam doing this. I'm okay with that, but the issue here is PvP and pve balance.
This game will NEVER be balanced as long as they continue to balance the two against each other. They literally refuse to separate pve and PvP because they're lazy. I don't say that in a mean way but it was literally stated on eso live that it requires way too much work to do. After that I quit listening to anything they had to say about combat.
If MagDK got their pre-Morrowind sustain back (not including the 15% cost reduction from CP-tree) magDK would compete with stamina DD`s again. Not beat them, but people would consider them. Before Morrowind it wasn´t hard to achieve 40k on a target dummy with a magDK (with drain). That would translate into high 50k+ in an optimized raid......
The real reason why stambuilds is so far ahead in terms of DPS is due to vMA bow adding an insane amount of DPS (I would say no other gear/set comes close to vMA bow when it comes to increase your DPS. Nerfing vMA bow would be a first step to lower the difference between reducing the gap between stam and mag DPS (not that I like a nerf to vMA weapons, just pointing it out)
Using a fully-charged Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now restore double the amount of resources.
Even if they change mag dk sustain you still wouldn't take one. I used to main that class but switched to stam dk cause it does WAY more damage especially with 3 more stam in different buff sets. There is no reason to take a mag dk or templar in a melee spot when you have stam setups reaching 50k+ dps by themselves. There are a ton of videos of stam doing this. I'm okay with that, but the issue here is PvP and pve balance.
This game will NEVER be balanced as long as they continue to balance the two against each other. They literally refuse to separate pve and PvP because they're lazy. I don't say that in a mean way but it was literally stated on eso live that it requires way too much work to do. After that I quit listening to anything they had to say about combat.
If MagDK got their pre-Morrowind sustain back (not including the 15% cost reduction from CP-tree) magDK would compete with stamina DD`s again. Not beat them, but people would consider them. Before Morrowind it wasn´t hard to achieve 40k on a target dummy with a magDK (with drain). That would translate into high 50k+ in an optimized raid......
The real reason why stambuilds is so far ahead in terms of DPS is due to vMA bow adding an insane amount of DPS (I would say no other gear/set comes close to vMA bow when it comes to increase your DPS. Nerfing vMA bow would be a first step to lower the difference between reducing the gap between stam and mag DPS (not that I like a nerf to vMA weapons, just pointing it out)
About the sustain issues...
There is this tidbit on the patch notes:Using a fully-charged Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now restore double the amount of resources.
Depending on how the modifier is calculated (is it additive or multiplicative with Tenacity?), it could mean anywhere between 2823 (additive) to 3189 (multiplicative) extra magicka/heavy attack.
If you can get two inferno heavy attacks in for each off balance period, then that's worth an extra 5646-6378 magicka every 15-20 seconds.
Using "every 17,5 seconds" as an average, that means the equivalent of 322-364 magicka/second, or 644-728 "magicka regen".
I think sustain might be a lot better (for all builds) than people realize.
bigdavid11b16_ESO wrote: »anyone consider how useless shattering rocks is going to be. its already underused and is rly a good skill. why would i want to offbalance everyone around me if i have to wait 3seconds to even use another lash
It's just another one of the completely useless morph options we have. Just like Hardened Armor, Reflective Plate, Frag Shield, and Cinder Storm.
Even if they change mag dk sustain you still wouldn't take one. I used to main that class but switched to stam dk cause it does WAY more damage especially with 3 more stam in different buff sets. There is no reason to take a mag dk or templar in a melee spot when you have stam setups reaching 50k+ dps by themselves. There are a ton of videos of stam doing this. I'm okay with that, but the issue here is PvP and pve balance.
This game will NEVER be balanced as long as they continue to balance the two against each other. They literally refuse to separate pve and PvP because they're lazy. I don't say that in a mean way but it was literally stated on eso live that it requires way too much work to do. After that I quit listening to anything they had to say about combat.
If MagDK got their pre-Morrowind sustain back (not including the 15% cost reduction from CP-tree) magDK would compete with stamina DD`s again. Not beat them, but people would consider them. Before Morrowind it wasn´t hard to achieve 40k on a target dummy with a magDK (with drain). That would translate into high 50k+ in an optimized raid......
The real reason why stambuilds is so far ahead in terms of DPS is due to vMA bow adding an insane amount of DPS (I would say no other gear/set comes close to vMA bow when it comes to increase your DPS. Nerfing vMA bow would be a first step to lower the difference between reducing the gap between stam and mag DPS (not that I like a nerf to vMA weapons, just pointing it out)
About the sustain issues...
There is this tidbit on the patch notes:Using a fully-charged Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now restore double the amount of resources.
Depending on how the modifier is calculated (is it additive or multiplicative with Tenacity?), it could mean anywhere between 2823 (additive) to 3189 (multiplicative) extra magicka/heavy attack.
If you can get two inferno heavy attacks in for each off balance period, then that's worth an extra 5646-6378 magicka every 15-20 seconds.
Using "every 17,5 seconds" as an average, that means the equivalent of 322-364 magicka/second, or 644-728 "magicka regen".
I think sustain might be a lot better (for all builds) than people realize.
Even if they change mag dk sustain you still wouldn't take one. I used to main that class but switched to stam dk cause it does WAY more damage especially with 3 more stam in different buff sets. There is no reason to take a mag dk or templar in a melee spot when you have stam setups reaching 50k+ dps by themselves. There are a ton of videos of stam doing this. I'm okay with that, but the issue here is PvP and pve balance.
This game will NEVER be balanced as long as they continue to balance the two against each other. They literally refuse to separate pve and PvP because they're lazy. I don't say that in a mean way but it was literally stated on eso live that it requires way too much work to do. After that I quit listening to anything they had to say about combat.
If MagDK got their pre-Morrowind sustain back (not including the 15% cost reduction from CP-tree) magDK would compete with stamina DD`s again. Not beat them, but people would consider them. Before Morrowind it wasn´t hard to achieve 40k on a target dummy with a magDK (with drain). That would translate into high 50k+ in an optimized raid......
The real reason why stambuilds is so far ahead in terms of DPS is due to vMA bow adding an insane amount of DPS (I would say no other gear/set comes close to vMA bow when it comes to increase your DPS. Nerfing vMA bow would be a first step to lower the difference between reducing the gap between stam and mag DPS (not that I like a nerf to vMA weapons, just pointing it out)
About the sustain issues...
There is this tidbit on the patch notes:Using a fully-charged Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now restore double the amount of resources.
Depending on how the modifier is calculated (is it additive or multiplicative with Tenacity?), it could mean anywhere between 2823 (additive) to 3189 (multiplicative) extra magicka/heavy attack.
If you can get two inferno heavy attacks in for each off balance period, then that's worth an extra 5646-6378 magicka every 15-20 seconds.
Using "every 17,5 seconds" as an average, that means the equivalent of 322-364 magicka/second, or 644-728 "magicka regen".
I think sustain might be a lot better (for all builds) than people realize.
On paper, sure those extra resource during 4 seconds looks nice but since I can´t control when off-balance will occur on a boss it´s totally random. Also there´s 1 more even important thing that interfere: Boss-mechanics, these will always be prioritised over extra resource return. Some examples:
- Ozara decides to pin down people in the group when she´s off-balance, you´ve got to unpin or else it´s a wipe
- vMoL HM when Rahhkat swaps platform: You need to block or else you´ll most likely die
- Manticora when doing the stomp = need to block or nasty bleed will apply that might kill you, also "popcorn" will occur from time to time, which needs to be avoided. No extra resource return there
- The Warrior when doing his "Starfall" mechanic, good luck doing a heavy attack during that phase.
- v Asylum: There´s so many things/mechanics going on in that fight simultaneously that it´s not even realistic to take advantage of the extra resource return.
I could go on, but I know you get the point. Sustain on magDK in PvE needs to be addressed. Fix that and magDK is back on track.
Even if they change mag dk sustain you still wouldn't take one. I used to main that class but switched to stam dk cause it does WAY more damage especially with 3 more stam in different buff sets. There is no reason to take a mag dk or templar in a melee spot when you have stam setups reaching 50k+ dps by themselves. There are a ton of videos of stam doing this. I'm okay with that, but the issue here is PvP and pve balance.
This game will NEVER be balanced as long as they continue to balance the two against each other. They literally refuse to separate pve and PvP because they're lazy. I don't say that in a mean way but it was literally stated on eso live that it requires way too much work to do. After that I quit listening to anything they had to say about combat.
If MagDK got their pre-Morrowind sustain back (not including the 15% cost reduction from CP-tree) magDK would compete with stamina DD`s again. Not beat them, but people would consider them. Before Morrowind it wasn´t hard to achieve 40k on a target dummy with a magDK (with drain). That would translate into high 50k+ in an optimized raid......
The real reason why stambuilds is so far ahead in terms of DPS is due to vMA bow adding an insane amount of DPS (I would say no other gear/set comes close to vMA bow when it comes to increase your DPS. Nerfing vMA bow would be a first step to lower the difference between reducing the gap between stam and mag DPS (not that I like a nerf to vMA weapons, just pointing it out)
About the sustain issues...
There is this tidbit on the patch notes:Using a fully-charged Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now restore double the amount of resources.
Depending on how the modifier is calculated (is it additive or multiplicative with Tenacity?), it could mean anywhere between 2823 (additive) to 3189 (multiplicative) extra magicka/heavy attack.
If you can get two inferno heavy attacks in for each off balance period, then that's worth an extra 5646-6378 magicka every 15-20 seconds.
Using "every 17,5 seconds" as an average, that means the equivalent of 322-364 magicka/second, or 644-728 "magicka regen".
I think sustain might be a lot better (for all builds) than people realize.
On paper, sure those extra resource during 4 seconds looks nice but since I can´t control when off-balance will occur on a boss it´s totally random. Also there´s 1 more even important thing that interfere: Boss-mechanics, these will always be prioritised over extra resource return. Some examples:
- Ozara decides to pin down people in the group when she´s off-balance, you´ve got to unpin or else it´s a wipe
- vMoL HM when Rahhkat swaps platform: You need to block or else you´ll most likely die
- Manticora when doing the stomp = need to block or nasty bleed will apply that might kill you, also "popcorn" will occur from time to time, which needs to be avoided. No extra resource return there
- The Warrior when doing his "Starfall" mechanic, good luck doing a heavy attack during that phase.
- v Asylum: There´s so many things/mechanics going on in that fight simultaneously that it´s not even realistic to take advantage of the extra resource return.
I could go on, but I know you get the point. Sustain on magDK in PvE needs to be addressed. Fix that and magDK is back on track.
Yeah, I know - but it's still an improvement over Live when it comes to sustain.
I agree that it'll probably not be enough though (would be nice if people can test this tho so they don't overbuff anything).
I think they should just improve the Molten Whip morph, make it restore magicka & attach some strong DoT to make up for the damage difference between Power Lash & normal Molten Whip.
The current "101 spell damage to Ardent Flame abilities" is not only borderline useless, but also boring design.
Honestly OP, I think the point is ZoS don't want any class to have a defined role, it's the players that are pushing everything into meta roles for x or y, because a certain class performs 10, 20, 30 <whatever> % better than another.
I'm getting to the point where I am struggling (or can't be bothered?) to keep up with it all we (the players) see too much, just happy for the magDK their DPS went up from this PTS change (apparently - I saw Gilliams parses about it) even though i'm still hurting from NB tank pain introduced in Morrowind.
coplannb16_ESO wrote: »Warden beats DK as tank next update imho thanks to resource return on heal (Natures Gift passive + for example leeching vines). They can also beat DKs on Ult regen (what a joke) which means more uptime on Warhorn (or Permafrost for Major Protection). Also they can supply for themself and the group Major Protection and Minor Protection...
They can also provide Major Maim with Frozen Device...
I dont know. Their passives and skills are really good for all roles (yes also damage, there was a post+video yesterday of a magWarden pulling >40K in vMoL)...
Why would anyone want to play a DPS DK? The class focuses on tanking skills and if you're going magicka just run a Sorcerer and be better than a magdk.
Why would anyone want to play a DPS DK? The class focuses on tanking skills and if you're going magicka just run a Sorcerer and be better than a magdk.
Why would anyone want to play a DPS DK? The class focuses on tanking skills and if you're going magicka just run a Sorcerer and be better than a magdk.
MagDK was a very viable and imo the most fun PVE DPS class to play for the first 3 years of ESO. I really enjoy fulfilling that pyromancer archetype as a melee magicka DPS. Sorc is mainly ranged and just not as fun or engaging to me.
I hope ZOS is working on a balanced solution for our spec.
To be honest though, if ZOS would just come out and say they do not intend for MagDK to be a viable end game PVE DPS I would reroll my main character of almost 4 years. It would suck, but it would be much appreciated.
To be honest though, if ZOS would just come out and say they do not intend for MagDK to be a viable end game PVE DPS I would reroll my main character of almost 4 years. It would suck, but it would be much appreciated.
bigdavid11b16_ESO wrote: »anyone consider how useless shattering rocks is going to be. its already underused and is rly a good skill. why would i want to offbalance everyone around me if i have to wait 3seconds to even use another lash
It's just another one of the completely useless morph options we have. Just like Hardened Armor, Reflective Plate, Frag Shield, and Cinder Storm.
Don't forget Igneous Weapons
Even stam DKs prefer Molten Armaments...
Oh, and Molten Whip... another morph that could use some love.
Why would anyone want to play a DPS DK? The class focuses on tanking skills and if you're going magicka just run a Sorcerer and be better than a magdk.
MagDK was a very viable and imo the most fun PVE DPS class to play for the first 3 years of ESO. I really enjoy fulfilling that pyromancer archetype as a melee magicka DPS. Sorc is mainly ranged and just not as fun or engaging to me.
I hope ZOS is working on a balanced solution for our spec.
To be honest though, if ZOS would just come out and say they do not intend for MagDK to be a viable end game PVE DPS I would reroll my main character of almost 4 years. It would suck, but it would be much appreciated.
Why do you need them to say it? Actions speak louder than words.
IZZESparkling wrote: »Why would anyone want to play a DPS DK? The class focuses on tanking skills and if you're going magicka just run a Sorcerer and be better than a magdk.
MagDK was a very viable and imo the most fun PVE DPS class to play for the first 3 years of ESO. I really enjoy fulfilling that pyromancer archetype as a melee magicka DPS. Sorc is mainly ranged and just not as fun or engaging to me.
I hope ZOS is working on a balanced solution for our spec.
To be honest though, if ZOS would just come out and say they do not intend for MagDK to be a viable end game PVE DPS I would reroll my main character of almost 4 years. It would suck, but it would be much appreciated.
Why do you need them to say it? Actions speak louder than words.
Because it is so against their own philosophy of "play as you want". And they repeated that the whole time.
VaranisArano wrote: »IZZESparkling wrote: »Why would anyone want to play a DPS DK? The class focuses on tanking skills and if you're going magicka just run a Sorcerer and be better than a magdk.
MagDK was a very viable and imo the most fun PVE DPS class to play for the first 3 years of ESO. I really enjoy fulfilling that pyromancer archetype as a melee magicka DPS. Sorc is mainly ranged and just not as fun or engaging to me.
I hope ZOS is working on a balanced solution for our spec.
To be honest though, if ZOS would just come out and say they do not intend for MagDK to be a viable end game PVE DPS I would reroll my main character of almost 4 years. It would suck, but it would be much appreciated.
Why do you need them to say it? Actions speak louder than words.
Because it is so against their own philosophy of "play as you want". And they repeated that the whole time.
Are you having any problems battling, crafting, fishing, stealing, sieging or exploring? Because that's what they advertised as play as you want. I'm pretty sure that you can complete all content in the game on your MagDK, even though ZOS never guaranteed your MagDK DPS a spot in leaderboard trials teams.
IZZESparkling wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »IZZESparkling wrote: »Why would anyone want to play a DPS DK? The class focuses on tanking skills and if you're going magicka just run a Sorcerer and be better than a magdk.
MagDK was a very viable and imo the most fun PVE DPS class to play for the first 3 years of ESO. I really enjoy fulfilling that pyromancer archetype as a melee magicka DPS. Sorc is mainly ranged and just not as fun or engaging to me.
I hope ZOS is working on a balanced solution for our spec.
To be honest though, if ZOS would just come out and say they do not intend for MagDK to be a viable end game PVE DPS I would reroll my main character of almost 4 years. It would suck, but it would be much appreciated.
Why do you need them to say it? Actions speak louder than words.
Because it is so against their own philosophy of "play as you want". And they repeated that the whole time.
Are you having any problems battling, crafting, fishing, stealing, sieging or exploring? Because that's what they advertised as play as you want. I'm pretty sure that you can complete all content in the game on your MagDK, even though ZOS never guaranteed your MagDK DPS a spot in leaderboard trials teams.
Yes, in fact, DK is the worst of all classes for all those activities.Templars at least can participate in battle in multiple roles as they see fit even with same mobility problem. But DK? Slow to get to fishing spot, crafting spot, exploring new place, getting to siege, hard to steal with and the worst to actually battle in any of its content to the fullest experience possible as other classes do it much much better.