can we get a dev to explain what the role of magicka DK is?

DDuke

Stamden wrote: »

bigdavid11b16_ESO wrote: »

anyone consider how useless shattering rocks is going to be. its already underused and is rly a good skill. why would i want to offbalance everyone around me if i have to wait 3seconds to even use another lash

It's just another one of the completely useless morph options we have. Just like Hardened Armor, Reflective Plate, Frag Shield, and Cinder Storm.

Don't forget Igneous Weapons

Even stam DKs prefer Molten Armaments...


Oh, and Molten Whip... another morph that could use some love.

Qbiken

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

Even if they change mag dk sustain you still wouldn't take one. I used to main that class but switched to stam dk cause it does WAY more damage especially with 3 more stam in different buff sets. There is no reason to take a mag dk or templar in a melee spot when you have stam setups reaching 50k+ dps by themselves. There are a ton of videos of stam doing this. I'm okay with that, but the issue here is PvP and pve balance.

This game will NEVER be balanced as long as they continue to balance the two against each other. They literally refuse to separate pve and PvP because they're lazy. I don't say that in a mean way but it was literally stated on eso live that it requires way too much work to do. After that I quit listening to anything they had to say about combat.

If MagDK got their pre-Morrowind sustain back (not including the 15% cost reduction from CP-tree) magDK would compete with stamina DD`s again. Not beat them, but people would consider them. Before Morrowind it wasn´t hard to achieve 40k on a target dummy with a magDK (with drain). That would translate into high 50k+ in an optimized raid......

The real reason why stambuilds is so far ahead in terms of DPS is due to vMA bow adding an insane amount of DPS (I would say no other gear/set comes close to vMA bow when it comes to increase your DPS. Nerfing vMA bow would be a first step to lower the difference between reducing the gap between stam and mag DPS (not that I like a nerf to vMA weapons, just pointing it out)

FlamingBeard

Feanor wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Resurrect dead

Templars BiS.

On a serious note, this is the problem when ZoS holds off class balance changes while it tries to implement a fundamental change to combat. Not all classes are affected equally by the systems change in content and those that suffer the most have to wait months for ZoS to even address the fixes.

Something else about the ever anticipated "class balance" patch, when was the last time we really had one? ZoS doesn't do them anymore. Not clockwork City. . Not HOTR. It wasn't Morrowind which was a huge nerf to everyone. Probably Homestead. And categorizing that patch as one dedictated to "class blance" is questiuonable as all it did was hit me with abunch of nerfs:

• No more stun on Blazing Spear
• Radiant Destruction neutered
• Some minor changes to bad skills we dont use like Radial Sweep, Healing Ritual, Restoring Aura

If that was a class balance patch, I don't want to see another one.

DKs are going to eat this nerf and have to wait moths until the next update comes until ZoS tries to rectify the situation. Unfortunately, in the past ZoS has tended to nerf "over-performing" things so I wouldn't be surpised if the way ZoS tries to address DK sustain and PvE DPS is to nerf the other 4 classes.

@Joy_Division i dont play magplar but the blazing spears nerf is legit one of the most "wtf lol" moments in patch note history.

My most "wtf lol" moment was when they removed the CC on frags... more like a "but why" moment in the end though.

I'd have to say the biggest WTF moment in recent memory was the arbitrary second cost increase nerf to extended ritual & morphs. it used to be base 1912 magicka, got increased almost 100% to 3,810 then increased again to 4.1k.

Well, Templars had some prime real estate, and that’s always costly.

Templars haven't really had a "house" since losing Major Mending, I'm afraid.

DDuke

Qbiken wrote: »

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

Even if they change mag dk sustain you still wouldn't take one. I used to main that class but switched to stam dk cause it does WAY more damage especially with 3 more stam in different buff sets. There is no reason to take a mag dk or templar in a melee spot when you have stam setups reaching 50k+ dps by themselves. There are a ton of videos of stam doing this. I'm okay with that, but the issue here is PvP and pve balance.

This game will NEVER be balanced as long as they continue to balance the two against each other. They literally refuse to separate pve and PvP because they're lazy. I don't say that in a mean way but it was literally stated on eso live that it requires way too much work to do. After that I quit listening to anything they had to say about combat.

If MagDK got their pre-Morrowind sustain back (not including the 15% cost reduction from CP-tree) magDK would compete with stamina DD`s again. Not beat them, but people would consider them. Before Morrowind it wasn´t hard to achieve 40k on a target dummy with a magDK (with drain). That would translate into high 50k+ in an optimized raid......

The real reason why stambuilds is so far ahead in terms of DPS is due to vMA bow adding an insane amount of DPS (I would say no other gear/set comes close to vMA bow when it comes to increase your DPS. Nerfing vMA bow would be a first step to lower the difference between reducing the gap between stam and mag DPS (not that I like a nerf to vMA weapons, just pointing it out)

About the sustain issues...

There is this tidbit on the patch notes:

Using a fully-charged Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now restore double the amount of resources.

Depending on how the modifier is calculated (is it additive or multiplicative with Tenacity?), it could mean anywhere between 2823 (additive) to 3189 (multiplicative) extra magicka/heavy attack.

If you can get two inferno heavy attacks in for each off balance period, then that's worth an extra 5646-6378 magicka every 15-20 seconds.

Using "every 17,5 seconds" as an average, that means the equivalent of 322-364 magicka/second, or 644-728 "magicka regen".


I think sustain might be a lot better (for all builds) than people realize.

FlamingBeard

DDuke wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

Even if they change mag dk sustain you still wouldn't take one. I used to main that class but switched to stam dk cause it does WAY more damage especially with 3 more stam in different buff sets. There is no reason to take a mag dk or templar in a melee spot when you have stam setups reaching 50k+ dps by themselves. There are a ton of videos of stam doing this. I'm okay with that, but the issue here is PvP and pve balance.

This game will NEVER be balanced as long as they continue to balance the two against each other. They literally refuse to separate pve and PvP because they're lazy. I don't say that in a mean way but it was literally stated on eso live that it requires way too much work to do. After that I quit listening to anything they had to say about combat.

If MagDK got their pre-Morrowind sustain back (not including the 15% cost reduction from CP-tree) magDK would compete with stamina DD`s again. Not beat them, but people would consider them. Before Morrowind it wasn´t hard to achieve 40k on a target dummy with a magDK (with drain). That would translate into high 50k+ in an optimized raid......

The real reason why stambuilds is so far ahead in terms of DPS is due to vMA bow adding an insane amount of DPS (I would say no other gear/set comes close to vMA bow when it comes to increase your DPS. Nerfing vMA bow would be a first step to lower the difference between reducing the gap between stam and mag DPS (not that I like a nerf to vMA weapons, just pointing it out)

About the sustain issues...

There is this tidbit on the patch notes:

Using a fully-charged Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now restore double the amount of resources.

Depending on how the modifier is calculated (is it additive or multiplicative with Tenacity?), it could mean anywhere between 2823 (additive) to 3189 (multiplicative) extra magicka/heavy attack.

If you can get two inferno heavy attacks in for each off balance period, then that's worth an extra 5646-6378 magicka every 15-20 seconds.

Using "every 17,5 seconds" as an average, that means the equivalent of 322-364 magicka/second, or 644-728 "magicka regen".


I think sustain might be a lot better (for all builds) than people realize.

Their aim in nerfing Off-Balance up-time and increasing heavy attack resource restore during Off-Balance is to force you to drop all rotations and heavy attack if you want any amount of sustain whatsoever.

It aims to lower the overall DPS of top raiders who figured ways around ZOS's Morrowind sustain obliteration after Horns of the Reach update and onward.

Asardes

There are actually 2 NPCs in game who do that

Asardes

Stamden wrote: »

bigdavid11b16_ESO wrote: »

anyone consider how useless shattering rocks is going to be. its already underused and is rly a good skill. why would i want to offbalance everyone around me if i have to wait 3seconds to even use another lash

It's just another one of the completely useless morph options we have. Just like Hardened Armor, Reflective Plate, Frag Shield, and Cinder Storm.

Cinder Storm is useful for tanks as a very strong snare. That morph is OK, but wouldn't hurt to have a slight cost decrease.

Qbiken

DDuke wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

Even if they change mag dk sustain you still wouldn't take one. I used to main that class but switched to stam dk cause it does WAY more damage especially with 3 more stam in different buff sets. There is no reason to take a mag dk or templar in a melee spot when you have stam setups reaching 50k+ dps by themselves. There are a ton of videos of stam doing this. I'm okay with that, but the issue here is PvP and pve balance.

This game will NEVER be balanced as long as they continue to balance the two against each other. They literally refuse to separate pve and PvP because they're lazy. I don't say that in a mean way but it was literally stated on eso live that it requires way too much work to do. After that I quit listening to anything they had to say about combat.

If MagDK got their pre-Morrowind sustain back (not including the 15% cost reduction from CP-tree) magDK would compete with stamina DD`s again. Not beat them, but people would consider them. Before Morrowind it wasn´t hard to achieve 40k on a target dummy with a magDK (with drain). That would translate into high 50k+ in an optimized raid......

The real reason why stambuilds is so far ahead in terms of DPS is due to vMA bow adding an insane amount of DPS (I would say no other gear/set comes close to vMA bow when it comes to increase your DPS. Nerfing vMA bow would be a first step to lower the difference between reducing the gap between stam and mag DPS (not that I like a nerf to vMA weapons, just pointing it out)

About the sustain issues...

There is this tidbit on the patch notes:

Using a fully-charged Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now restore double the amount of resources.

Depending on how the modifier is calculated (is it additive or multiplicative with Tenacity?), it could mean anywhere between 2823 (additive) to 3189 (multiplicative) extra magicka/heavy attack.

If you can get two inferno heavy attacks in for each off balance period, then that's worth an extra 5646-6378 magicka every 15-20 seconds.

Using "every 17,5 seconds" as an average, that means the equivalent of 322-364 magicka/second, or 644-728 "magicka regen".


I think sustain might be a lot better (for all builds) than people realize.

On paper, sure those extra resource during 4 seconds looks nice but since I can´t control when off-balance will occur on a boss it´s totally random. Also there´s 1 more even important thing that interfere: Boss-mechanics, these will always be prioritised over extra resource return. Some examples:

- Ozara decides to pin down people in the group when she´s off-balance, you´ve got to unpin or else it´s a wipe
- vMoL HM when Rahhkat swaps platform: You need to block or else you´ll most likely die
- Manticora when doing the stomp = need to block or nasty bleed will apply that might kill you, also "popcorn" will occur from time to time, which needs to be avoided. No extra resource return there
- The Warrior when doing his "Starfall" mechanic, good luck doing a heavy attack during that phase.
- v Asylum: There´s so many things/mechanics going on in that fight simultaneously that it´s not even realistic to take advantage of the extra resource return.

I could go on, but I know you get the point. Sustain on magDK in PvE needs to be addressed. Fix that and magDK is back on track.

DDuke

Qbiken wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

Even if they change mag dk sustain you still wouldn't take one. I used to main that class but switched to stam dk cause it does WAY more damage especially with 3 more stam in different buff sets. There is no reason to take a mag dk or templar in a melee spot when you have stam setups reaching 50k+ dps by themselves. There are a ton of videos of stam doing this. I'm okay with that, but the issue here is PvP and pve balance.

This game will NEVER be balanced as long as they continue to balance the two against each other. They literally refuse to separate pve and PvP because they're lazy. I don't say that in a mean way but it was literally stated on eso live that it requires way too much work to do. After that I quit listening to anything they had to say about combat.

If MagDK got their pre-Morrowind sustain back (not including the 15% cost reduction from CP-tree) magDK would compete with stamina DD`s again. Not beat them, but people would consider them. Before Morrowind it wasn´t hard to achieve 40k on a target dummy with a magDK (with drain). That would translate into high 50k+ in an optimized raid......

The real reason why stambuilds is so far ahead in terms of DPS is due to vMA bow adding an insane amount of DPS (I would say no other gear/set comes close to vMA bow when it comes to increase your DPS. Nerfing vMA bow would be a first step to lower the difference between reducing the gap between stam and mag DPS (not that I like a nerf to vMA weapons, just pointing it out)

About the sustain issues...

There is this tidbit on the patch notes:

Using a fully-charged Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now restore double the amount of resources.

Depending on how the modifier is calculated (is it additive or multiplicative with Tenacity?), it could mean anywhere between 2823 (additive) to 3189 (multiplicative) extra magicka/heavy attack.

If you can get two inferno heavy attacks in for each off balance period, then that's worth an extra 5646-6378 magicka every 15-20 seconds.

Using "every 17,5 seconds" as an average, that means the equivalent of 322-364 magicka/second, or 644-728 "magicka regen".


I think sustain might be a lot better (for all builds) than people realize.

On paper, sure those extra resource during 4 seconds looks nice but since I can´t control when off-balance will occur on a boss it´s totally random. Also there´s 1 more even important thing that interfere: Boss-mechanics, these will always be prioritised over extra resource return. Some examples:

- Ozara decides to pin down people in the group when she´s off-balance, you´ve got to unpin or else it´s a wipe
- vMoL HM when Rahhkat swaps platform: You need to block or else you´ll most likely die
- Manticora when doing the stomp = need to block or nasty bleed will apply that might kill you, also "popcorn" will occur from time to time, which needs to be avoided. No extra resource return there
- The Warrior when doing his "Starfall" mechanic, good luck doing a heavy attack during that phase.
- v Asylum: There´s so many things/mechanics going on in that fight simultaneously that it´s not even realistic to take advantage of the extra resource return.

I could go on, but I know you get the point. Sustain on magDK in PvE needs to be addressed. Fix that and magDK is back on track.

Yeah, I know - but it's still an improvement over Live when it comes to sustain.

I agree that it'll probably not be enough though (would be nice if people can test this tho so they don't overbuff anything).


I think they should just improve the Molten Whip morph, make it restore magicka & attach some strong DoT to make up for the damage difference between Power Lash & normal Molten Whip.

The current "101 spell damage to Ardent Flame abilities" is not only borderline useless, but also boring design.

Qbiken

DDuke wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

Even if they change mag dk sustain you still wouldn't take one. I used to main that class but switched to stam dk cause it does WAY more damage especially with 3 more stam in different buff sets. There is no reason to take a mag dk or templar in a melee spot when you have stam setups reaching 50k+ dps by themselves. There are a ton of videos of stam doing this. I'm okay with that, but the issue here is PvP and pve balance.

This game will NEVER be balanced as long as they continue to balance the two against each other. They literally refuse to separate pve and PvP because they're lazy. I don't say that in a mean way but it was literally stated on eso live that it requires way too much work to do. After that I quit listening to anything they had to say about combat.

If MagDK got their pre-Morrowind sustain back (not including the 15% cost reduction from CP-tree) magDK would compete with stamina DD`s again. Not beat them, but people would consider them. Before Morrowind it wasn´t hard to achieve 40k on a target dummy with a magDK (with drain). That would translate into high 50k+ in an optimized raid......

The real reason why stambuilds is so far ahead in terms of DPS is due to vMA bow adding an insane amount of DPS (I would say no other gear/set comes close to vMA bow when it comes to increase your DPS. Nerfing vMA bow would be a first step to lower the difference between reducing the gap between stam and mag DPS (not that I like a nerf to vMA weapons, just pointing it out)

About the sustain issues...

There is this tidbit on the patch notes:

Using a fully-charged Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will now restore double the amount of resources.

Depending on how the modifier is calculated (is it additive or multiplicative with Tenacity?), it could mean anywhere between 2823 (additive) to 3189 (multiplicative) extra magicka/heavy attack.

If you can get two inferno heavy attacks in for each off balance period, then that's worth an extra 5646-6378 magicka every 15-20 seconds.

Using "every 17,5 seconds" as an average, that means the equivalent of 322-364 magicka/second, or 644-728 "magicka regen".


I think sustain might be a lot better (for all builds) than people realize.

On paper, sure those extra resource during 4 seconds looks nice but since I can´t control when off-balance will occur on a boss it´s totally random. Also there´s 1 more even important thing that interfere: Boss-mechanics, these will always be prioritised over extra resource return. Some examples:

- Ozara decides to pin down people in the group when she´s off-balance, you´ve got to unpin or else it´s a wipe
- vMoL HM when Rahhkat swaps platform: You need to block or else you´ll most likely die
- Manticora when doing the stomp = need to block or nasty bleed will apply that might kill you, also "popcorn" will occur from time to time, which needs to be avoided. No extra resource return there
- The Warrior when doing his "Starfall" mechanic, good luck doing a heavy attack during that phase.
- v Asylum: There´s so many things/mechanics going on in that fight simultaneously that it´s not even realistic to take advantage of the extra resource return.

I could go on, but I know you get the point. Sustain on magDK in PvE needs to be addressed. Fix that and magDK is back on track.

Yeah, I know - but it's still an improvement over Live when it comes to sustain.

I agree that it'll probably not be enough though (would be nice if people can test this tho so they don't overbuff anything).


I think they should just improve the Molten Whip morph, make it restore magicka & attach some strong DoT to make up for the damage difference between Power Lash & normal Molten Whip.

The current "101 spell damage to Ardent Flame abilities" is not only borderline useless, but also boring design.

I´ve been on the PTS but only managed to try the Off-balance changes on some dungeon bosses (not any trial yet). It´s much easier to spot when the boss is off-balance, which is a +, but it´s too much RNG for it to be useful. And if off-balance occurs when some major mechanic is about to happen....well it´s RIP xD

And agree on Molten Whip, personally I would like to see a reduced cost to make on par with magblade Strife, and give it a "magicka steal" like you describe.

JWillCHS

aeowulf wrote: »

Honestly OP, I think the point is ZoS don't want any class to have a defined role, it's the players that are pushing everything into meta roles for x or y, because a certain class performs 10, 20, 30 <whatever> % better than another.

I'm getting to the point where I am struggling (or can't be bothered?) to keep up with it all we (the players) see too much, just happy for the magDK their DPS went up from this PTS change (apparently - I saw Gilliams parses about it) even though i'm still hurting from NB tank pain introduced in Morrowind.

Other games get diversity through a variety of different classes with define roles and class specific itemization. But ESO is the complete opposite. Which is going to be the easiest to balance? I think we all know the answer to that question.

Aren't there plans to overhaul the existing classes to bring them in line with the Warden? A damage, healing, and tanking skill line.

I've been exploring some other MMORPGs recently. I love the idea that many of these games have more than 2 or 3 classes/playing styles applicable to a raid group's composition at "all" difficulty levels and/or roles. Each of them having very different ways to play them, and even physical appearances(including weapons).

To say that your DK is only useful as a tank, or a magicka Templar should only heal in Trials shows how much diversity needs to be in the game.

I like how there are many different sets in ESO. But the skill system which has its own uniqueness is pretty weak in terms of diversity especially for stamina characters. Just think about it. When 5 separate players are using Crit Rush and Wrecking Blow on you; and they all are playing separate classes...that's a problem.

There are more casual guilds that are open to a magicka DK in their Trial groups. But I feel like even with a hardcore raid group you shouldn't have to worry about acquiring a spot because you play magicka DK as a DPS archetype.

I'm hoping this new expansion overhauls class abilities and introduces new weapon skill lines.

Alp

Wing wrote: »

other then not being played that is.

you pass the butter.

Wing

the problem (as I personally see it) with DK in general but magicka more so, is that they both lack range and mobility regardless of spec, as well as decent resource return.

mobility is *less* of an issue for stamina but still not as good as any other stamina spec (save perhaps stamplar)

this lack of range and mobility also forces DK into either heavy armor, or light, med: brass / another defensive set regardless of spec.

and this snowballs into reducing damage because your using sets to shore up class deficiencies instead of for damage or what not.

also DK's main form of damage regardless of spec is dots, and dots are as we all know useless in pvp, and its only burst that people like to go on involves an ultimate, and I put it to you that every class can burst with an ultimate, regardless of spec. (plus stamden LAUGHS at DK's supposed "burst")


now if we compare this to something like sorcs who have very good mobility regardless of spec, very good healing and resource recovery regardless of spec, and tend to double dip survivability and damage by gearing offensively regardless of spec. . .well the difference is clear

VaranisArano

None of these are a problem when you consider the DK in the role that devs clearly favor for it: a PVE tank.

coplannb16_ESO

Warden beats DK as tank next update imho thanks to resource return on heal (Natures Gift passive + for example leeching vines). They can also beat DKs on Ult regen (what a joke) which means more uptime on Warhorn (or Permafrost for Major Protection). Also they can supply for themself and the group Major Protection and Minor Protection...
They can also provide Major Maim with Frozen Device...

I dont know. Their passives and skills are really good for all roles (yes also damage, there was a post+video yesterday of a magWarden pulling >40K in vMoL)...

Wing

coplannb16_ESO wrote: »

Warden beats DK as tank next update imho thanks to resource return on heal (Natures Gift passive + for example leeching vines). They can also beat DKs on Ult regen (what a joke) which means more uptime on Warhorn (or Permafrost for Major Protection). Also they can supply for themself and the group Major Protection and Minor Protection...
They can also provide Major Maim with Frozen Device...

I dont know. Their passives and skills are really good for all roles (yes also damage, there was a post+video yesterday of a magWarden pulling >40K in vMoL)...

I think this too.

there resource return also returns through blocking, and even though its a small amount the netch can restore stamina while blocking as well.

Knowledge

Why would anyone want to play a DPS DK? The class focuses on tanking skills and if you're going magicka just run a Sorcerer and be better than a magdk.

beetleklee

Knowledge wrote: »

Why would anyone want to play a DPS DK? The class focuses on tanking skills and if you're going magicka just run a Sorcerer and be better than a magdk.

Because I like the class? DK shouldn't have to just be tanks and if that's what the devs want, then why do the keep nerfing MagDK and leave StamDK DPS for PVE alone? (I know StamDK isn't doing too well in PVP, I've played both in PVP and both mag and stam suffered from some of the same nerfs) But before I started playing, MagDK was a beast, and since then the devs have nerfed them into mediocrity and keep trying to pigeonhole DKs into tanks. Just get rid of any DPS skills DKs have if you want them to be tanks...

I find MagSorc super boring hence why I rarely play mine. I like fire whipping things.

Malthorne

Knowledge wrote: »

Why would anyone want to play a DPS DK? The class focuses on tanking skills and if you're going magicka just run a Sorcerer and be better than a magdk.

MagDK was a very viable and imo the most fun PVE DPS class to play for the first 3 years of ESO. I really enjoy fulfilling that pyromancer archetype as a melee magicka DPS. Sorc is mainly ranged and just not as fun or engaging to me.

I hope ZOS is working on a balanced solution for our spec.

To be honest though, if ZOS would just come out and say they do not intend for MagDK to be a viable end game PVE DPS I would reroll my main character of almost 4 years. It would suck, but it would be much appreciated.

Knowledge

Malthorne wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Why would anyone want to play a DPS DK? The class focuses on tanking skills and if you're going magicka just run a Sorcerer and be better than a magdk.

MagDK was a very viable and imo the most fun PVE DPS class to play for the first 3 years of ESO. I really enjoy fulfilling that pyromancer archetype as a melee magicka DPS. Sorc is mainly ranged and just not as fun or engaging to me.

I hope ZOS is working on a balanced solution for our spec.

To be honest though, if ZOS would just come out and say they do not intend for MagDK to be a viable end game PVE DPS I would reroll my main character of almost 4 years. It would suck, but it would be much appreciated.

Why do you need them to say it? Actions speak louder than words.

Stamden

Malthorne wrote: »

To be honest though, if ZOS would just come out and say they do not intend for MagDK to be a viable end game PVE DPS I would reroll my main character of almost 4 years. It would suck, but it would be much appreciated.

Yeah I wish they would just come out and say it. It's clear they want this class to be nothing but an afk-blocking tank.

Ragnarock41

DDuke wrote: »

Stamden wrote: »

bigdavid11b16_ESO wrote: »

anyone consider how useless shattering rocks is going to be. its already underused and is rly a good skill. why would i want to offbalance everyone around me if i have to wait 3seconds to even use another lash

It's just another one of the completely useless morph options we have. Just like Hardened Armor, Reflective Plate, Frag Shield, and Cinder Storm.

Don't forget Igneous Weapons

Even stam DKs prefer Molten Armaments...


Oh, and Molten Whip... another morph that could use some love.

but the moment someone says ''can we have a stamina molten reflective plate/whip/hardened armor, forums explode with angry people that spam L2P in replies.

Dk in general has soo many useless skills I am just amazed how zos keeps refusing to utilize all those morphs to help Dk, because both stam and mag Dk, needs some help.

Ajaxduo

Wing wrote: »

other then not being played that is.

SydneyGrey

They need to reduce the costs of some of those magDK skills.
I have both stam and mag versions of every single class right now (except magNB), and my magDK's sustain is the worst out of all of them. She was my main for a long, long time before they destroyed her sustain so badly. Now she's not worth using any more.

Saint_Bud

We all dont know what are the balance goals zos have. On a 3 mil dummy the dps differant isnt that huge, but stamdps lives from suppotsets to reach this numbers. The next is that stam dds are able to sustain there damage over a long time, because of the heavy atrack rotation and magick not. Next is, if magmelle can do the same as stamdds, why they should get used as much in good groups. People will say6 magtoons and only 2 stamtoons are not balanced.

In pvp, evry class has get a lot of nerfs, but dks and templar main class abilitys wings and blayzing shild are ablolut useless to compare ot with cloak and sorc shilds and streak. Also that evey few month blocking or some else from the tanking aspect gets nerft hurts classes that disigned for a tanky playstyle (hold your ground). Playing tanky classes in a game were you should not play a tank in pvp makes no sence. Shure there are destro resto setups out there for thoose classes, but when i woul play so, i would choose a soorc or nb and not a class that says me its for tanking. They just should look at how many players are in campains. On eu pc on vicec, there are not many guilds left and moast of the player are at 400cp, and beside primetime it feels so emty. In other words, not many stays in pvp for a long time because they not enjoy it.

IZZEFlameLash

Knowledge wrote: »

Malthorne wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Why would anyone want to play a DPS DK? The class focuses on tanking skills and if you're going magicka just run a Sorcerer and be better than a magdk.

MagDK was a very viable and imo the most fun PVE DPS class to play for the first 3 years of ESO. I really enjoy fulfilling that pyromancer archetype as a melee magicka DPS. Sorc is mainly ranged and just not as fun or engaging to me.

I hope ZOS is working on a balanced solution for our spec.

To be honest though, if ZOS would just come out and say they do not intend for MagDK to be a viable end game PVE DPS I would reroll my main character of almost 4 years. It would suck, but it would be much appreciated.

Why do you need them to say it? Actions speak louder than words.

Because it is so against their own philosophy of "play as you want". And they repeated that the whole time.

VaranisArano

IZZESparkling wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Malthorne wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Why would anyone want to play a DPS DK? The class focuses on tanking skills and if you're going magicka just run a Sorcerer and be better than a magdk.

MagDK was a very viable and imo the most fun PVE DPS class to play for the first 3 years of ESO. I really enjoy fulfilling that pyromancer archetype as a melee magicka DPS. Sorc is mainly ranged and just not as fun or engaging to me.

I hope ZOS is working on a balanced solution for our spec.

To be honest though, if ZOS would just come out and say they do not intend for MagDK to be a viable end game PVE DPS I would reroll my main character of almost 4 years. It would suck, but it would be much appreciated.

Why do you need them to say it? Actions speak louder than words.

Because it is so against their own philosophy of "play as you want". And they repeated that the whole time.

Are you having any problems battling, crafting, fishing, stealing, sieging or exploring? Because that's what they advertised as play as you want. I'm pretty sure that you can complete all content in the game on your MagDK, even though ZOS never guaranteed your MagDK DPS a spot in leaderboard trials teams.

Onefrkncrzypope

I understand how hard it when nerfs come. I'm a sDK in PvP and loved mDk pve but in order to get our point across these threads aren't working. One thing I've learned is that it's really hard to unerf skills when speaking to ZoS. It is true that there has be reworking in the pts but it's very rare. We need to make a coherent and well thought out thread on what needs to be done about the mDk.
Gilliam had a good video on sustain of the classes if I can remember, showing the extreme issues whith this classes sustain. If anyone of us put time in to show parses with the mag drain between classes and it shows that the mDk is lacking ZoS would have to listen.

I don't have any fancy add-ons as I'm a console player but if anyone is truly upset take time to show the issues. Show that both morphs are unstainable in this patch and describe why unlike other class adaptions mDk is left behind

Like show that you can't sustain either whips or force pulse describe that clench and pulse first are too expensive and doesn't make any sense because of all the melee range skills it need to employ and so on. Work for your class guys.

IZZEFlameLash

VaranisArano wrote: »

IZZESparkling wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Malthorne wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Why would anyone want to play a DPS DK? The class focuses on tanking skills and if you're going magicka just run a Sorcerer and be better than a magdk.

MagDK was a very viable and imo the most fun PVE DPS class to play for the first 3 years of ESO. I really enjoy fulfilling that pyromancer archetype as a melee magicka DPS. Sorc is mainly ranged and just not as fun or engaging to me.

I hope ZOS is working on a balanced solution for our spec.

To be honest though, if ZOS would just come out and say they do not intend for MagDK to be a viable end game PVE DPS I would reroll my main character of almost 4 years. It would suck, but it would be much appreciated.

Why do you need them to say it? Actions speak louder than words.

Because it is so against their own philosophy of "play as you want". And they repeated that the whole time.

Are you having any problems battling, crafting, fishing, stealing, sieging or exploring? Because that's what they advertised as play as you want. I'm pretty sure that you can complete all content in the game on your MagDK, even though ZOS never guaranteed your MagDK DPS a spot in leaderboard trials teams.

Yes, in fact, DK is the worst of all classes for all those activities.Templars at least can participate in battle in multiple roles as they see fit even with same mobility problem. But DK? Slow to get to fishing spot, crafting spot, exploring new place, getting to siege, hard to steal with and the worst to actually battle in any of its content to the fullest experience possible as other classes do it much much better.

Even fellow 0 mobility Templars do better DPS and sustain than DK. Better heals. Sorcs are fast and bursty. So are Wardens. Wardens are jack of all trades. What is DK good at? They are not the best ult generator also. Especially in PvP. PvE tank spot tbh can be filled by any other classes with better utilities anyways. Only thing that stopped DK from being completely overtaken as tanks is major heroism of Warden only activating on ranged attacks.

We are not "stand your ground" class anymore in PvP. Warden tanks can do ridiculous things. Tbh, DK tanks in PvP don't really bring anything utility wise. Wardens with AoE defile are much more desired than a single DK. DK are not good at DPS either. When it is clear other classes certainly are outdoing things like that.

Oh, and play as you want do mean you also can play whatever the hell roles you want and still find place in a raid. If other classes can do it, why shouldn't a DK? That was the entire point of the game's direction. If it is not, why nerf power lash to "bring it in line with other skills"? Why make searing strike's initial hit dodgeable? Grouping is also part of the game experience and top tier grouping also is part of the experience. So... why should DK players be excluded from that experience?

VaranisArano

IZZESparkling wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

IZZESparkling wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Malthorne wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Why would anyone want to play a DPS DK? The class focuses on tanking skills and if you're going magicka just run a Sorcerer and be better than a magdk.

MagDK was a very viable and imo the most fun PVE DPS class to play for the first 3 years of ESO. I really enjoy fulfilling that pyromancer archetype as a melee magicka DPS. Sorc is mainly ranged and just not as fun or engaging to me.

I hope ZOS is working on a balanced solution for our spec.

To be honest though, if ZOS would just come out and say they do not intend for MagDK to be a viable end game PVE DPS I would reroll my main character of almost 4 years. It would suck, but it would be much appreciated.

Why do you need them to say it? Actions speak louder than words.

Because it is so against their own philosophy of "play as you want". And they repeated that the whole time.

Are you having any problems battling, crafting, fishing, stealing, sieging or exploring? Because that's what they advertised as play as you want. I'm pretty sure that you can complete all content in the game on your MagDK, even though ZOS never guaranteed your MagDK DPS a spot in leaderboard trials teams.

Yes, in fact, DK is the worst of all classes for all those activities.Templars at least can participate in battle in multiple roles as they see fit even with same mobility problem. But DK? Slow to get to fishing spot, crafting spot, exploring new place, getting to siege, hard to steal with and the worst to actually battle in any of its content to the fullest experience possible as other classes do it much much better.

Huh. I've nearly got Master Angler (I'm lazy, that's why I don't have it - I already got the Cyrodiil fish but I need the some Dominion zones.), no issues with running around in overland content, no problems with running siege engines (PVP Healer, right here and I love fire siege and oils. Burn DC, burn!), no having problems stealing (Night Terror + Night Mother Embrace FTW), and I'm a MagDK tank in PVE, so...

If you turn everything into a competition, there's always going to be a winner and a loser. Sounds like you think MagDK is a loser.

I prefer to think of it as "Can I complete all the content I want to?" For that the answer is yes.

You may not complete all the content in the game AS WELL AS some other class, and for some that's enough to relegate the MagDK to the rubbish heap. But you can complete ALL the content in the game. At that point, its other players preventing you from joining their trial groups. That's sort of ZOS' problem? Its also a player community problem.