can we get a dev to explain what the role of magicka DK is?

Myerscod · January 2018

Leave battle roar and helping hands as it is in PvP, revert to what it was pre-morrowwind for pve.

Oh wait, where's that dead horse gif?

lazerlaz · January 2018

MDK will still be strong even after changes next update in PVP. Who gives a flying rip about their role in PVE. Seriously. Lol.

FlamingBeard · January 2018

lazerlaz wrote: »

MDK will still be strong even after changes next update in PVP. Who gives a flying rip about their role in PVE. Seriously. Lol.

A lot of people care. There's not enough role diversity.

kojou · January 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

Crafter.

but even as a crafter, Dk is the worst because of no mobility.

You don't need much mobility to learn traits and motifs and use crafting tables.

As for resource farming a Orc Stam Sorc with VO should have that honor.

kojou · January 2018

On a serious note...

I am going to do some testing with a couple different classes comparing the exact same gear on live with PTS.

Ideally I would like to answer how much DPS did Stamina builds lose with the same live setup relative to the Magicka DK.

Since Magicka DK's ranged DPS option is not optimal they have to compete with Stamina DPS, which I think is their main disadvantage. Magicka DPS is balanced for range...

Maybe the devs could consider making Molten Whip and Burning Embers 10 meters so that Magicka DK's could get off the stack a little bit in fights where there are limited Melee spots.

VaranisArano · January 2018

How is it that nearly every post complaining about the nerfing of the MagDK focuses almost exclusively on MagDK DPS or MagDK in PVP and completely ignores the obvious way that ZOS balances MagDK around their role as the predominant tanking class in ESO, only recently challenged by Wardens?

Yes, every class can tank every content if the player is experienced enough, but Dragonknights are still the main tanks for end-game content and MagDKs can make full use of the DK tank skills like talons and chains. Its absurd to pretend like ZOS doesn't factor that tanking dominance when they balance DKs.

coplannb16_ESO · January 2018

it would help if Burning Embers would inherit the range of the weapon used, e.g. Staff -> 28m, S/B -> 6m

Joy_Division · January 2018

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Resurrect dead

Templars BiS.

On a serious note, this is the problem when ZoS holds off class balance changes while it tries to implement a fundamental change to combat. Not all classes are affected equally by the systems change in content and those that suffer the most have to wait months for ZoS to even address the fixes.

Something else about the ever anticipated "class balance" patch, when was the last time we really had one? ZoS doesn't do them anymore. Not clockwork City. . Not HOTR. It wasn't Morrowind which was a huge nerf to everyone. Probably Homestead. And categorizing that patch as one dedictated to "class blance" is questiuonable as all it did was hit me with abunch of nerfs:

No more stun on Blazing Spear
Radiant Destruction neutered
Some minor changes to bad skills we dont use like Radial Sweep, Healing Ritual, Restoring Aura

If that was a class balance patch, I don't want to see another one.

DKs are going to eat this nerf and have to wait moths until the next update comes until ZoS tries to rectify the situation. Unfortunately, in the past ZoS has tended to nerf "over-performing" things so I wouldn't be surpised if the way ZoS tries to address DK sustain and PvE DPS is to nerf the other 4 classes.

krathos · January 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Resurrect dead

Templars BiS.

On a serious note, this is the problem when ZoS holds off class balance changes while it tries to implement a fundamental change to combat. Not all classes are affected equally by the systems change in content and those that suffer the most have to wait months for ZoS to even address the fixes.

Something else about the ever anticipated "class balance" patch, when was the last time we really had one? ZoS doesn't do them anymore. Not clockwork City. . Not HOTR. It wasn't Morrowind which was a huge nerf to everyone. Probably Homestead. And categorizing that patch as one dedictated to "class blance" is questiuonable as all it did was hit me with abunch of nerfs:
No more stun on Blazing Spear

Radiant Destruction neutered

Some minor changes to bad skills we dont use like Radial Sweep, Healing Ritual, Restoring Aura

If that was a class balance patch, I don't want to see another one.

DKs are going to eat this nerf and have to wait moths until the next update comes until ZoS tries to rectify the situation. Unfortunately, in the past ZoS has tended to nerf "over-performing" things so I wouldn't be surpised if the way ZoS tries to address DK sustain and PvE DPS is to nerf the other 4 classes.

@Joy_Division i dont play magplar but the blazing spears nerf is legit one of the most "wtf lol" moments in patch note history.

Hutch679 · January 2018

Mag DKs are strong af in pvp. You guys are all on something crying about this class. What a joke lol. You wanna pve with one? Tank. Go dps on something else and quit crying about it. You cant have combat balance by making every class good at everything.... this isn't call of duty. You don't see sorcs or templars crying that they are worthless as tanks... gtfo. Stop asking for ridiculous nerfs and buffs. Bunch of mag dk babies in here.

Hutch679 · January 2018

Bighanson wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno so what's my role as a mag DK? Crafter, bankchar or RP-char? Why was there no dev comment on the DK changes?

L2P issue clearly if you can't succeed on a mag dk.

Joy_Division · January 2018

krathos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Resurrect dead

Templars BiS.

On a serious note, this is the problem when ZoS holds off class balance changes while it tries to implement a fundamental change to combat. Not all classes are affected equally by the systems change in content and those that suffer the most have to wait months for ZoS to even address the fixes.

Something else about the ever anticipated "class balance" patch, when was the last time we really had one? ZoS doesn't do them anymore. Not clockwork City. . Not HOTR. It wasn't Morrowind which was a huge nerf to everyone. Probably Homestead. And categorizing that patch as one dedictated to "class blance" is questiuonable as all it did was hit me with abunch of nerfs:
No more stun on Blazing Spear

Radiant Destruction neutered

Some minor changes to bad skills we dont use like Radial Sweep, Healing Ritual, Restoring Aura

If that was a class balance patch, I don't want to see another one.

DKs are going to eat this nerf and have to wait moths until the next update comes until ZoS tries to rectify the situation. Unfortunately, in the past ZoS has tended to nerf "over-performing" things so I wouldn't be surpised if the way ZoS tries to address DK sustain and PvE DPS is to nerf the other 4 classes.

@Joy_Division i dont play magplar but the blazing spears nerf is legit one of the most "wtf lol" moments in patch note history.

Oh yeah. that they said the skill was improved and would be easier for newer players to use is just baffling. Because when I was new, I found it very helpful when the bad guys *weren't* stunned

At any rate, I used to play a DK pretty seriously but don't anymore.

There was a time, believe it or not, where DKs did not care about off balance and all the cool PvE DPSers would take the Molten Whip morph. I remember in trials being mocked as a filthy PvPer or something to that effect because I used Flame Lash.

But nerf after nerf after nerf after nerf made it so that DKs were forced to crutch on off balance and used the filthy PvPer morph in order to put up competitive numbers. I do agree it was kind of ridiculous that DKs could pretty much be invincible spamming Flame Lash forever, though it it was hella fun! So I don't begrudge Zos for removing that loophole so to speak. The issue is without the crutch to lean on, DKs that want to do something other than tank are falling flat on their face because those old nerfs are still there.

Stamden · January 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Resurrect dead

Templars BiS.

On a serious note, this is the problem when ZoS holds off class balance changes while it tries to implement a fundamental change to combat. Not all classes are affected equally by the systems change in content and those that suffer the most have to wait months for ZoS to even address the fixes.

Something else about the ever anticipated "class balance" patch, when was the last time we really had one? ZoS doesn't do them anymore. Not clockwork City. . Not HOTR. It wasn't Morrowind which was a huge nerf to everyone. Probably Homestead. And categorizing that patch as one dedictated to "class blance" is questiuonable as all it did was hit me with abunch of nerfs:
No more stun on Blazing Spear

Radiant Destruction neutered

Some minor changes to bad skills we dont use like Radial Sweep, Healing Ritual, Restoring Aura

If that was a class balance patch, I don't want to see another one.

DKs are going to eat this nerf and have to wait moths until the next update comes until ZoS tries to rectify the situation. Unfortunately, in the past ZoS has tended to nerf "over-performing" things so I wouldn't be surpised if the way ZoS tries to address DK sustain and PvE DPS is to nerf the other 4 classes.

@Joy_Division i dont play magplar but the blazing spears nerf is legit one of the most "wtf lol" moments in patch note history.

Oh yeah. that they said the skill was improved and would be easier for newer players to use is just baffling. Because when I was new, I found it very helpful when the bad guys *weren't* stunned

At any rate, I used to play a DK pretty seriously but don't anymore.

There was a time, believe it or not, where DKs did not care about off balance and all the cool PvE DPSers would take the Molten Whip morph. I remember in trials being mocked as a filthy PvPer or something to that effect because I used Flame Lash.

But nerf after nerf after nerf after nerf made it so that DKs were forced to crutch on off balance and used the filthy PvPer morph in order to put up competitive numbers. I do agree it was kind of ridiculous that DKs could pretty much be invincible spamming Flame Lash forever, though it it was hella fun! So I don't begrudge Zos for removing that loophole so to speak. The issue is without the crutch to lean on, DKs that want to do something other than tank are falling flat on their face because those old nerfs are still there.

I remember coming back to the game from those days. When people told me to get the Flame Lash morph for PvP, I was like "wtf you want me to take the morph that doesn't increase fire damage??". Then I tried out Molten Whip on a target and realized you run out of magicka pretty much immediately. It all started from this terrible cycle of events that goes like:

1. Mag DKs have high costs, but could drop many ults with cheaper standard and fast ulti gen so they got a lot of resource return
2. Standard cost increase, ulti gen massively reduced, high costs still exist, class is borderline unusuable
3. Champion Points come out which reduce magicka cost, and acts as a band-aid for the ability cost problem
4. Morrowind comes out, sustain reduced across the board, rip DKs again
5. Only way to even make them usuable is with Flame Lash
6. (Current) Flame lash gets nerfed..

It's like a constant cycle of mDKs barely being viable and them getting rid of the one mechanic that keeps it from being completely unusable.

krathos · January 2018

@Stamden this is a very concise overview of why we are where we are. Thank you for posting and I think a lot of non-magdk players would do good to read this.

Subversus · January 2018

krathos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Resurrect dead

Templars BiS.

On a serious note, this is the problem when ZoS holds off class balance changes while it tries to implement a fundamental change to combat. Not all classes are affected equally by the systems change in content and those that suffer the most have to wait months for ZoS to even address the fixes.

Something else about the ever anticipated "class balance" patch, when was the last time we really had one? ZoS doesn't do them anymore. Not clockwork City. . Not HOTR. It wasn't Morrowind which was a huge nerf to everyone. Probably Homestead. And categorizing that patch as one dedictated to "class blance" is questiuonable as all it did was hit me with abunch of nerfs:
No more stun on Blazing Spear

Radiant Destruction neutered

Some minor changes to bad skills we dont use like Radial Sweep, Healing Ritual, Restoring Aura

If that was a class balance patch, I don't want to see another one.

DKs are going to eat this nerf and have to wait moths until the next update comes until ZoS tries to rectify the situation. Unfortunately, in the past ZoS has tended to nerf "over-performing" things so I wouldn't be surpised if the way ZoS tries to address DK sustain and PvE DPS is to nerf the other 4 classes.

@Joy_Division i dont play magplar but the blazing spears nerf is legit one of the most "wtf lol" moments in patch note history.

My most "wtf lol" moment was when they removed the CC on frags... more like a "but why" moment in the end though.

aeowulf · January 2018

Honestly OP, I think the point is ZoS don't want any class to have a defined role, it's the players that are pushing everything into meta roles for x or y, because a certain class performs 10, 20, 30 <whatever> % better than another.

I'm getting to the point where I am struggling (or can't be bothered?) to keep up with it all

we (the players) see too much, just happy for the magDK their DPS went up from this PTS change (apparently - I saw Gilliams parses about it) even though i'm still hurting from NB tank pain introduced in Morrowind.

Smmokkee · January 2018

Pvp Monster?

Rjizzle09 · January 2018

Even if they change mag dk sustain you still wouldn't take one. I used to main that class but switched to stam dk cause it does WAY more damage especially with 3 more stam in different buff sets. There is no reason to take a mag dk or templar in a melee spot when you have stam setups reaching 50k+ dps by themselves. There are a ton of videos of stam doing this. I'm okay with that, but the issue here is PvP and pve balance.

This game will NEVER be balanced as long as they continue to balance the two against each other. They literally refuse to separate pve and PvP because they're lazy. I don't say that in a mean way but it was literally stated on eso live that it requires way too much work to do. After that I quit listening to anything they had to say about combat.

Savos_Saren · January 2018

C'mon OP. You know what role the mDK is perfect for:

ERP

Whips, Chains, Sadistic demeanor...

BlazingDynamo · January 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Still better than magicka warden.

for pve it is, but then again magicka warden doesn't eat a melee spot. fixing magden in pve is a lot easier than it looks.
It needs less undodgeable cancer burst and more sustained damage.

And yet we're 8 months since it released, and it's still the worst PvE class in the game. ZOS just doesn't care about some classes.

Actually it was the community that scared Zos into making the class trash.

Had the Warden been a great class it would have been "wha wha p2w wha wha" we all know that and it's been stated a lot. Soo yeah not Zos' fault on this one. I hope the bring the class in line with everything else some day

Onefrkncrzypope · January 2018

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Still better than magicka warden.

for pve it is, but then again magicka warden doesn't eat a melee spot. fixing magden in pve is a lot easier than it looks.
It needs less undodgeable cancer burst and more sustained damage.

And yet we're 8 months since it released, and it's still the worst PvE class in the game. ZOS just doesn't care about some classes.

Actually it was the community that scared Zos into making the class trash.

Had the Warden been a great class it would have been "wha wha p2w wha wha" we all know that and it's been stated a lot. Soo yeah not Zos' fault on this one. I hope the bring the class in line with everything else some day

I got my trials warden up to 34k with the apprentice stone so it ain't that bad. Though I don't have the pts to perfect the CP and test with golded gear. It would be nice if there was a buff to the winter's revenge or something. Like a mDk if standing in ice thingy the target takes x% more mag damage. Would make people want to bring them into trials to...

But dks passives really need a good looking at. They have no active sustain skill or and cost reduction passive or recovery passive. All it has is battle roar... Some classes have all three while others have active skills for recovery. The dk has one relevant sustain passive

Anhedonie · January 2018

Scapegoat (sometimes tank too).

IZZEFlameLash · January 2018

Anhedonie wrote: »

Scapegoat (sometimes tank too).

What's the difference? Scapegoats are tanking the blames.

This class is now making me sad. It does not have anything of defining or pose a threat to anyone (even if it did not pose much a threat outside of duels and full out damage builds that sacrifices already terrible sustain and tankiness). Expensive skills, no defining class characteristics.

Edit: Wait, Scapegoats tank better than DKs as it is a PvP environment.

Epicasballs · January 2018

I've played since console launch and my first 2 classes I started playing were magDK and magNB. MagNB's were trash for so long it hurt. MagNB's have received a few buffs making them better over the last few patches but their position to be number magDD's during this patch came more at the cost of other classes being nerfed down and new gear being introduced recently that favors replacing class spammable with Force Pulse and having a cheap ultimate to proc Master Architect. I guess it's now time for my magDK to wait for all the other incoming nerfs to other classes haha.

I would love to play magDK again in a competitive environment but they waste a melee spot and cannot dps from range. Having some passive to help with mag sustain or reducing the costs of skills would go a long way to making them playable in less serious content until a bigger fix for them comes along to make them able to compete with stam setups in more serious content. After testing x2 inferno and molten whip/force pulse rotation I can tell you the sustain is just as bad as y'all think it is and not even a consideration for 4 mans if you want to have any fun once this patch goes live.

It's sort of a shame light/heavy attacks don't scale with your highest max stats and restore mag/stam based on which stat is higher. Have DW light/heavy attacks scale with spell crit/pen/damage/max magic so we magDK's could stand with all the stam boys and utilize a robust/skillful(*sarcasm*) heavy attack rotation that has become the norm since Morrowind and still deal impressive damage and have infinite sustain... I'd love to be able to tape down my right trigger button during my rotation if it meant being relevant again. Combat in this game is ever more progressing towards the most boring experience I've ever had in a video game. For the love of god ZOS please ease up on the sustain nerfs. Bring the fun back. Please.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Epicasballs · January 2018

To ZOS: Can you show me on the doll where the MagDK touched you?

usmcjdking · January 2018

Subversus wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Resurrect dead

Templars BiS.

On a serious note, this is the problem when ZoS holds off class balance changes while it tries to implement a fundamental change to combat. Not all classes are affected equally by the systems change in content and those that suffer the most have to wait months for ZoS to even address the fixes.

Something else about the ever anticipated "class balance" patch, when was the last time we really had one? ZoS doesn't do them anymore. Not clockwork City. . Not HOTR. It wasn't Morrowind which was a huge nerf to everyone. Probably Homestead. And categorizing that patch as one dedictated to "class blance" is questiuonable as all it did was hit me with abunch of nerfs:
No more stun on Blazing Spear

Radiant Destruction neutered

Some minor changes to bad skills we dont use like Radial Sweep, Healing Ritual, Restoring Aura

If that was a class balance patch, I don't want to see another one.

DKs are going to eat this nerf and have to wait moths until the next update comes until ZoS tries to rectify the situation. Unfortunately, in the past ZoS has tended to nerf "over-performing" things so I wouldn't be surpised if the way ZoS tries to address DK sustain and PvE DPS is to nerf the other 4 classes.

@Joy_Division i dont play magplar but the blazing spears nerf is legit one of the most "wtf lol" moments in patch note history.

My most "wtf lol" moment was when they removed the CC on frags... more like a "but why" moment in the end though.

I'd have to say the biggest WTF moment in recent memory was the arbitrary second cost increase nerf to extended ritual & morphs. it used to be base 1912 magicka, got increased almost 100% to 3,810 then increased again to 4.1k.

Sigtric · January 2018

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

I wonder if the ones that main a mDK for pve still wanna bash me for asking for class change tokens after these lovely patch notes

Class change tokens are a horrible idea. I don't want to change my mDK. I want ZOS to fix it.

bigdavid11b16_ESO · January 2018

anyone consider how useless shattering rocks is going to be. its already underused and is rly a good skill. why would i want to offbalance everyone around me if i have to wait 3seconds to even use another lash

Stamden · January 2018

bigdavid11b16_ESO wrote: »

anyone consider how useless shattering rocks is going to be. its already underused and is rly a good skill. why would i want to offbalance everyone around me if i have to wait 3seconds to even use another lash

It's just another one of the completely useless morph options we have. Just like Hardened Armor, Reflective Plate, Frag Shield, and Cinder Storm.

Feanor · January 2018

usmcjdking wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Resurrect dead

Templars BiS.

On a serious note, this is the problem when ZoS holds off class balance changes while it tries to implement a fundamental change to combat. Not all classes are affected equally by the systems change in content and those that suffer the most have to wait months for ZoS to even address the fixes.

Something else about the ever anticipated "class balance" patch, when was the last time we really had one? ZoS doesn't do them anymore. Not clockwork City. . Not HOTR. It wasn't Morrowind which was a huge nerf to everyone. Probably Homestead. And categorizing that patch as one dedictated to "class blance" is questiuonable as all it did was hit me with abunch of nerfs:
No more stun on Blazing Spear

Radiant Destruction neutered

Some minor changes to bad skills we dont use like Radial Sweep, Healing Ritual, Restoring Aura

If that was a class balance patch, I don't want to see another one.

DKs are going to eat this nerf and have to wait moths until the next update comes until ZoS tries to rectify the situation. Unfortunately, in the past ZoS has tended to nerf "over-performing" things so I wouldn't be surpised if the way ZoS tries to address DK sustain and PvE DPS is to nerf the other 4 classes.

@Joy_Division i dont play magplar but the blazing spears nerf is legit one of the most "wtf lol" moments in patch note history.

My most "wtf lol" moment was when they removed the CC on frags... more like a "but why" moment in the end though.

I'd have to say the biggest WTF moment in recent memory was the arbitrary second cost increase nerf to extended ritual & morphs. it used to be base 1912 magicka, got increased almost 100% to 3,810 then increased again to 4.1k.

Well, Templars had some prime real estate, and that’s always costly.