ESO is at a crossroads

DeadlyRecluse · February 2018

I think part of this discussion is muddled by people--myself included--not having enough time to really dip into the outfit system--there's a clear confusion going on between the discussion about up-front/initial "costs" (motif and dye knowledge) and per use costs (gold/tokens).

Personally, I'm not willing to pass judgement until I've made a few outfits and have a feel for how much it will actually cost in gold--I understand the max cost, but how often will I actually be hitting that max cost? And what's the acceptable threshold for per-use costs for the average player?

My gut is that I'll buy one or two additional outfit slots, then not really mess around too much adjusting the outfits I have set--but I can see how certain "playstyles" that invest far more heavily in fashion scrolls than I do would have issues with the per-use cost.

Nihility42 · February 2018

Longstride wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

The amount of whining about a trivial gold coast is astounding to me. Literally go farm mats in the time it takes to make all these posts and you'll have enough gold for all your outfits for the next year.

We already have ground a) for the motiif themselves or b) for the gold to purchase the motiifs. What's more, we have already ground for the achievements that yielded dyes. FURTHER, dying is currently free of charge on live.

And dying is still free on PTS. Nothing has changed with regards to existing functionality. They have only added additional options, some of which do cost a small amount of gold.

idk · February 2018

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Longstride wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OPs comment is not entirely correct.

Yes, once we have an outfit slot it costs gold to commit an outfit to that slot which can the. Be used ans switched to at will without additional cost unless the player chooses to commit a new outfit to that slot.

However, with the exception of a few select motifs that are crown store exclusives, motifs are available in game for free. Buying them from another player becomes a choice. As such it is not arelevant part of a discussion of gold costs for the system.

So there is really only one aspect that requires a cost of gold for the system.

You are arguing semantics here. Yes we don't HAVE to buy them,but in reality 95% of consumers will buy some motifs to complete their outfits. The point of the OP stands and is quite accurate.

No, Op is talking semantics just as the 95% number is pulled out of thin air. OPs comments were not correct and I was merely pointing out the correct information.

@idk My comments were correct, and I already pointed out why. I understand you don't like getting destroyed in these threads but it's your own fault for following me around the forums trying to argue things that are out of your experience level.

Destroyed? Lol. Has not happened in this thread by anyone.

It is a fact we can permanently unlock a motif. I merely stated the fact we do not have to buy any of the in game motifs unlike how it was presented in the OP's first paragraph. It's merely a choice to buy the motif, get it yourself or do without.

Cannot destroy a message of facts with blurred lines. If I've commented in one of your threads previously in disagreement with your post it's merely either something open to oppinion or something incorrect as stated.

Nah, you don't permanently unlock motifs if there's still a gold cost to switch them around. What you have there is permanently unlocking the opportunity to pay to switch to it. And try reading my first paragraph again. I don't know if it's a language barrier or something but you are taking the idea of paying way too literally and focusing on it way too much. You pay for the motif one way or the other, whether it be grinding it out yourself, buying it from other players, or buying it in the cash shop. You always pay. If you can't wrap your mind around that then try taking a step back. Do some critical thinking.

You may be correct about the language barrier but I cannot know if English is your first language or not.

Thank you for finally admitting your comment in the first paragraph of the OP is incorrect, that there are menas to obtain the motifs without spending gold.

I have never been so destroyed. But seriously, we really don't have a reason to feel entitled to have all this just given to us. BTW, I do have most of the motifs and most of which I obtained by playing the game over time. That's part of the idea. The other part is to give actual value to motifs. They will increase in value.

Anyhow. Seems this has been straightens out. Thx. .

ssewallb14_ESO · February 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Guys, guys, my advice is specifically for @ssewallb14_ESO whom asked for a farming route.

Kinda off topic I know, but it's advice for them

I appreciate the advice, but I know how to make gold. I was addressing the absurdity of claiming time spent writing several forum posts could pay for outfits across multiple characters for a year. I'd consider 1k/min an above average farm, which would make 1 outfit respec take around 30 min. I don't know Men'do, but I can't image she spent more than a couple hours on these topics.

Nihility42 · February 2018

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

I think part of this discussion is muddled by people--myself included--not having enough time to really dip into the outfit system--there's a clear confusion going on between the discussion about up-front/initial "costs" (motif and dye knowledge) and per use costs (gold/tokens).

Personally, I'm not willing to pass judgement until I've made a few outfits and have a feel for how much it will actually cost in gold--I understand the max cost, but how often will I actually be hitting that max cost? And what's the acceptable threshold for per-use costs for the average player?

My gut is that I'll buy one or two additional outfit slots, then not really mess around too much adjusting the outfits I have set--but I can see how certain "playstyles" that invest far more heavily in fashion scrolls than I do would have issues with the per-use cost.

It's 5k-10k for most average outfits. I will admit that some of the "rare" motifs are pretty dumb. I think it is 2000g per piece of Ebonshadow, for example, which is stupid because Ebonshadow is a pretty cheap motif. I think Skinchanger is also 1k or 2k each. This would be one area I would like to see adjustment. Make the expensive motifs like Buoyant Armiger and Militant Ordinator 2k each, and make the worthless motifs like Skinchanger cheap.

DeadlyRecluse · February 2018

Nihility42 wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

I think part of this discussion is muddled by people--myself included--not having enough time to really dip into the outfit system--there's a clear confusion going on between the discussion about up-front/initial "costs" (motif and dye knowledge) and per use costs (gold/tokens).

Personally, I'm not willing to pass judgement until I've made a few outfits and have a feel for how much it will actually cost in gold--I understand the max cost, but how often will I actually be hitting that max cost? And what's the acceptable threshold for per-use costs for the average player?

My gut is that I'll buy one or two additional outfit slots, then not really mess around too much adjusting the outfits I have set--but I can see how certain "playstyles" that invest far more heavily in fashion scrolls than I do would have issues with the per-use cost.

It's 5k-10k for most average outfits. I will admit that some of the "rare" motifs are pretty dumb. I think it is 2000g per piece of Ebonshadow, for example, which is stupid because Ebonshadow is a pretty cheap motif. I think Skinchanger is also 10k or 2k each. This would be one area I would like to see adjustment. Make the expensive motifs like Buoyant Armiger and Militant Ordinator 2k each, and make the worthless motifs like Skinchanger cheap.

So that's the thing--I get that the cheapest outfits will be like a few K, and the most expensive close to 30k, and adjusting one or two pieces will be pretty cheap, but until I have some time in the system I just don't feel like I can weigh in on that too much (and not PTS-time, but a week or two of solid gameplay with normal habits). Outfitting certainly WON'T fully replace costumes/dyed normal gear for me, so it's hard to say how much I'll end up spending in gold over the course of say one week of normal gameplay, with me changing my outfit as much as I'd like to--at the moment, I doubt I'll lose enough gold to really care about it...

But that's me. Some individuals are notably more fashionable, and for them this might push them towards a microtransaction, and in that case, I understand the frustration.

Recremen · February 2018

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Longstride wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OPs comment is not entirely correct.

Yes, once we have an outfit slot it costs gold to commit an outfit to that slot which can the. Be used ans switched to at will without additional cost unless the player chooses to commit a new outfit to that slot.

However, with the exception of a few select motifs that are crown store exclusives, motifs are available in game for free. Buying them from another player becomes a choice. As such it is not arelevant part of a discussion of gold costs for the system.

So there is really only one aspect that requires a cost of gold for the system.

You are arguing semantics here. Yes we don't HAVE to buy them,but in reality 95% of consumers will buy some motifs to complete their outfits. The point of the OP stands and is quite accurate.

No, Op is talking semantics just as the 95% number is pulled out of thin air. OPs comments were not correct and I was merely pointing out the correct information.

@idk My comments were correct, and I already pointed out why. I understand you don't like getting destroyed in these threads but it's your own fault for following me around the forums trying to argue things that are out of your experience level.

Destroyed? Lol. Has not happened in this thread by anyone.

It is a fact we can permanently unlock a motif. I merely stated the fact we do not have to buy any of the in game motifs unlike how it was presented in the OP's first paragraph. It's merely a choice to buy the motif, get it yourself or do without.

Cannot destroy a message of facts with blurred lines. If I've commented in one of your threads previously in disagreement with your post it's merely either something open to oppinion or something incorrect as stated.

Nah, you don't permanently unlock motifs if there's still a gold cost to switch them around. What you have there is permanently unlocking the opportunity to pay to switch to it. And try reading my first paragraph again. I don't know if it's a language barrier or something but you are taking the idea of paying way too literally and focusing on it way too much. You pay for the motif one way or the other, whether it be grinding it out yourself, buying it from other players, or buying it in the cash shop. You always pay. If you can't wrap your mind around that then try taking a step back. Do some critical thinking.

You may be correct about the language barrier but I cannot know if English is your first language or not.

Thank you for finally admitting your comment in the first paragraph of the OP is incorrect, that there are menas to obtain the motifs without spending gold.

I have never been so destroyed. But seriously, we really don't have a reason to feel entitled to have all this just given to us. BTW, I do have most of the motifs and most of which I obtained by playing the game over time. That's part of the idea. The other part is to give actual value to motifs. They will increase in value.

Anyhow. Seems this has been straightens out. Thx. .

@idk My first language is English.

Thank you for finally admitting your comment in the first paragraph of the OP is incorrect

And that's why I have to ask if maybe yours isn't. There is nothing incorrect about my first paragraph. That's twice I've explained it to you now. I literally never mentioned gold in the first paragraph. I never implied that you had to pay with gold to get motifs. If you don't understand, just ask. If you're being obtuse on purpose because you can't compete in the marketplace of ideas, then "quit" the thread like you did all the others. I don't have time to babysit your petulant tantrums in my threads.

Finedaible · February 2018

Longstride wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

The amount of whining about a trivial gold coast is astounding to me. Literally go farm mats in the time it takes to make all these posts and you'll have enough gold for all your outfits for the next year.

We already have ground a) for the motiif themselves or b) for the gold to purchase the motiifs. What's more, we have already ground for the achievements that yielded dyes. FURTHER, dying is currently free of charge on live.

This is what I've been trying to say to everyone, but it seems half the playerbase is so ingrained with a mentality that thinks ZOS can do no wrong. These sheeple need to wake up and realize that ZoS is re-introducing an already existing feature (dying and styles) for an additional cost. Players are literally throwing praises at ZoS for giving them more grind for their grind, and a thinly veiled reason to pay more for something they already have.

What's more, non-crafters will be able to customize their gear to look just like they want in dropped gear as long as they have learned the style, so... why did i bother becoming a crafter again?

Grimm13 · February 2018

I can understand and accept paying a gold cost if that character has not unlocked the Motif or Dye at the time they create the Outfit. That would be part of doing something that Character has not achieved in the game yet. I could even see where that may drive some to see about collecting those locks in the game instead of paying each time to make a change.

Now the dye system has not changed on the non-outfits. You can still dye armor and costumes without charge just the same as before the Outfitter system.

Recremen · February 2018

Finedaible wrote: »

Longstride wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

The amount of whining about a trivial gold coast is astounding to me. Literally go farm mats in the time it takes to make all these posts and you'll have enough gold for all your outfits for the next year.

We already have ground a) for the motiif themselves or b) for the gold to purchase the motiifs. What's more, we have already ground for the achievements that yielded dyes. FURTHER, dying is currently free of charge on live.

This is what I've been trying to say to everyone, but it seems half the playerbase is so ingrained with a mentality that thinks ZOS can do no wrong. These sheeple need to wake up and realize that ZoS is re-introducing an already existing feature (dying and styles) for an additional cost. Players are literally throwing praises at ZoS for giving them more grind for their grind, and a thinly veiled reason to pay more for something they already have.

What's more, non-crafters will be able to customize their gear to look just like they want in dropped gear as long as they have learned the style, so... why did i bother becoming a crafter again?

To be fair regarding that last point, if someone has their crafting skills leveled enough to learn the motif (remember, many of them require rank 10 crafting), and they then learn the motif... they're a crafter. Legit the only difference is if they haven't done any trait research. I'm not saying that I wouldn't like more rewards for being a very dedicated crafter, but let's look at these things with as objective an eye as possible.

Chaos2088 · February 2018

I wouldn't of worded it exactly like op has stated, but yeah the money bit does get me scratching my head a bit...

I can dye my real armour for free....kinda would expect the same for an outfit...

....Also while I am at it, if i was going to buy an outfit slot....i would like/expect that account wide please. Just each individual toon is just pushing the limit Zoz...

Great system, great idea, awkward execution, that's just my opinion.

Jhalin · February 2018

OP is correct.

There is NO precedent for a fee to dye our equipment, whether it be costumes, hats, or armor.

The precedent exists for single-cost cosmetics. If we obtain a dye or a motif, paid for in time or with gold, then we can freely use it as often as we like. This is no longer the case, now that gold fees are being applied to those motifs and dyes in this system only.

ZOS has now set a precedent that they will charge per-use for cosmetic features. If this stands without significant monetary backlash, then this sort of thing has a high chance of extending into other areas of the game.

I personally am not going to even bother with the Outfit system more than once, and only then to dye my weapons away from the ugly red color. Even making 100k+ a day, I can't justify that price tag. If they wanted to make the system cost gold, then it would make sense. A flat 5k fee for all style changes would be fine, but paying per piece is not acceptable, and dyeing fees are even less so.

Doctordarkspawn · February 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

Nice write up. You might as well be talking to the wall, though. :shrug:

This.

ZOS will not lisen to you. In order to force them to, you need to remove you're monitary support, and that will likely not happen on the scale needed before things become much, much worse.

Stovahkiin · February 2018

Sounds like a big exaggeration to me tbh. And the system could be far worse, sure the gold costs could be a bit lower, but other than that the system looks pretty decent to me.

There are two things that you also have to consider; while outfits can cost up to around 20k, a lot of them will be much cheaper to make. There’s also the fact that the prices, as well as how the system works overall, may well change over time after it goes live. At that point, far more people will be able to try it and Zeni can balance things out from there.

idk · February 2018

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Longstride wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OPs comment is not entirely correct.

Yes, once we have an outfit slot it costs gold to commit an outfit to that slot which can the. Be used ans switched to at will without additional cost unless the player chooses to commit a new outfit to that slot.

However, with the exception of a few select motifs that are crown store exclusives, motifs are available in game for free. Buying them from another player becomes a choice. As such it is not arelevant part of a discussion of gold costs for the system.

So there is really only one aspect that requires a cost of gold for the system.

You are arguing semantics here. Yes we don't HAVE to buy them,but in reality 95% of consumers will buy some motifs to complete their outfits. The point of the OP stands and is quite accurate.

No, Op is talking semantics just as the 95% number is pulled out of thin air. OPs comments were not correct and I was merely pointing out the correct information.

@idk My comments were correct, and I already pointed out why. I understand you don't like getting destroyed in these threads but it's your own fault for following me around the forums trying to argue things that are out of your experience level.

Destroyed? Lol. Has not happened in this thread by anyone.

It is a fact we can permanently unlock a motif. I merely stated the fact we do not have to buy any of the in game motifs unlike how it was presented in the OP's first paragraph. It's merely a choice to buy the motif, get it yourself or do without.

Cannot destroy a message of facts with blurred lines. If I've commented in one of your threads previously in disagreement with your post it's merely either something open to oppinion or something incorrect as stated.

Nah, you don't permanently unlock motifs if there's still a gold cost to switch them around. What you have there is permanently unlocking the opportunity to pay to switch to it. And try reading my first paragraph again. I don't know if it's a language barrier or something but you are taking the idea of paying way too literally and focusing on it way too much. You pay for the motif one way or the other, whether it be grinding it out yourself, buying it from other players, or buying it in the cash shop. You always pay. If you can't wrap your mind around that then try taking a step back. Do some critical thinking.

You may be correct about the language barrier but I cannot know if English is your first language or not.

Thank you for finally admitting your comment in the first paragraph of the OP is incorrect, that there are menas to obtain the motifs without spending gold.

I have never been so destroyed. But seriously, we really don't have a reason to feel entitled to have all this just given to us. BTW, I do have most of the motifs and most of which I obtained by playing the game over time. That's part of the idea. The other part is to give actual value to motifs. They will increase in value.

Anyhow. Seems this has been straightens out. Thx. .

@idk My first language is English.

Thank you for finally admitting your comment in the first paragraph of the OP is incorrect

And that's why I have to ask if maybe yours isn't. There is nothing incorrect about my first paragraph. That's twice I've explained it to you now. I literally never mentioned gold in the first paragraph. I never implied that you had to pay with gold to get motifs. If you don't understand, just ask. If you're being obtuse on purpose because you can't compete in the marketplace of ideas, then "quit" the thread like you did all the others. I don't have time to babysit your petulant tantrums in my threads.

This is from your OP of this thread. Clearly stating you are speaking of the cost of gold concerning the motifs and the entire system.

The release of the outfit system has the potential to be a serious boon to aesthetic control and experimentation, a great achievement for the health of the game. Unfortunately, the associated per-use gold cost sabotages the system's true potential. Without a way to permanently unlock the styles, this system loses an important feature that has been a staple of the cosmetic systems since their introduction. We can change mounts, pets, hairstyles, body markings, skins, adornments, hats, costumes, personalities, and dyes with absolutely no associated charge after the up-front cost to get them. For this new system, however, we pay once to get the motif, and then once again every single time we change something in an outfit. We've even regressed, as we're now charged every time we want to change our dyes as well.

You then followed up with admitting that we are not required to pay gold for a motif. This is from the 31th post in this thread.

You pay for the motif one way or the other, whether it be grinding it out yourself

Pretty straight forward that you came to admit the original claim made in this thread was not correct.

Glad we cleared that up.

Further, this new system is intended to give value to the in game motifs. This include encouragement to do the content to gain the motifs but also provide value for selling them to other player.

If you think any of us should feel entitled to them and have them just given to us then you are certainly permitted to have that opinion, but it would be incorrect.

The system will be widely accepted and enjoyed. It is adding value to the game without question. Players have been asking for this a long time and it is pretty much as many of us would expect. But again, you are permitted to have your own opinion on the matter. I will enjoy using it as I have most of the motifs and mostly from playing the game.

Recremen · February 2018

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Sounds like a big exaggeration to me tbh. And the system could be far worse, sure the gold costs could be a bit lower, but other than that the system looks pretty decent to me.

There are two things that you also have to consider; while outfits can cost up to around 20k, a lot of them will be much cheaper to make. There’s also the fact that the prices, as well as how the system works overall, may well change over time after it goes live. At that point, far more people will be able to try it and Zeni can balance things out from there.

@Stovahkiin

I completely agree that other than the gold cost, the systems looks decent. I would go a step beyond that, as I already have done several times on the PTS forums, and say that the system itself goes above and beyond expectations. It offers every feature I ever advocated for, PLUS weapon dyes. That is why it's so unfortunate they went the route of charging per-use gold or real-life money.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that this is an unprecedented monetization strategy for cosmetics. Even gambling boxes at least permanently unlock the cosmetics you get from them. Some of the other stuff, like charging for voiceover or quests, was definitely an exaggeration but I'd like to hope it was more obvious that I was trying to hyperbolize there. The main point, however, is that this is unprecedented and bad for consumers. I'd much rather it be like every other cosmetic system, where you pay once up front and then can play around with it as much as you like afterwards. Monetize it that way, don't just go changing the methodology like this, you know?

Recremen · February 2018

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Longstride wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OPs comment is not entirely correct.

Yes, once we have an outfit slot it costs gold to commit an outfit to that slot which can the. Be used ans switched to at will without additional cost unless the player chooses to commit a new outfit to that slot.

However, with the exception of a few select motifs that are crown store exclusives, motifs are available in game for free. Buying them from another player becomes a choice. As such it is not arelevant part of a discussion of gold costs for the system.

So there is really only one aspect that requires a cost of gold for the system.

You are arguing semantics here. Yes we don't HAVE to buy them,but in reality 95% of consumers will buy some motifs to complete their outfits. The point of the OP stands and is quite accurate.

No, Op is talking semantics just as the 95% number is pulled out of thin air. OPs comments were not correct and I was merely pointing out the correct information.

@idk My comments were correct, and I already pointed out why. I understand you don't like getting destroyed in these threads but it's your own fault for following me around the forums trying to argue things that are out of your experience level.

Destroyed? Lol. Has not happened in this thread by anyone.

It is a fact we can permanently unlock a motif. I merely stated the fact we do not have to buy any of the in game motifs unlike how it was presented in the OP's first paragraph. It's merely a choice to buy the motif, get it yourself or do without.

Cannot destroy a message of facts with blurred lines. If I've commented in one of your threads previously in disagreement with your post it's merely either something open to oppinion or something incorrect as stated.

Nah, you don't permanently unlock motifs if there's still a gold cost to switch them around. What you have there is permanently unlocking the opportunity to pay to switch to it. And try reading my first paragraph again. I don't know if it's a language barrier or something but you are taking the idea of paying way too literally and focusing on it way too much. You pay for the motif one way or the other, whether it be grinding it out yourself, buying it from other players, or buying it in the cash shop. You always pay. If you can't wrap your mind around that then try taking a step back. Do some critical thinking.

You may be correct about the language barrier but I cannot know if English is your first language or not.

Thank you for finally admitting your comment in the first paragraph of the OP is incorrect, that there are menas to obtain the motifs without spending gold.

I have never been so destroyed. But seriously, we really don't have a reason to feel entitled to have all this just given to us. BTW, I do have most of the motifs and most of which I obtained by playing the game over time. That's part of the idea. The other part is to give actual value to motifs. They will increase in value.

Anyhow. Seems this has been straightens out. Thx. .

@idk My first language is English.

Thank you for finally admitting your comment in the first paragraph of the OP is incorrect

And that's why I have to ask if maybe yours isn't. There is nothing incorrect about my first paragraph. That's twice I've explained it to you now. I literally never mentioned gold in the first paragraph. I never implied that you had to pay with gold to get motifs. If you don't understand, just ask. If you're being obtuse on purpose because you can't compete in the marketplace of ideas, then "quit" the thread like you did all the others. I don't have time to babysit your petulant tantrums in my threads.

This is from your OP of this thread. Clearly stating you are speaking of the cost of gold concerning the motifs and the entire system.

The release of the outfit system has the potential to be a serious boon to aesthetic control and experimentation, a great achievement for the health of the game. Unfortunately, the associated per-use gold cost sabotages the system's true potential. Without a way to permanently unlock the styles, this system loses an important feature that has been a staple of the cosmetic systems since their introduction. We can change mounts, pets, hairstyles, body markings, skins, adornments, hats, costumes, personalities, and dyes with absolutely no associated charge after the up-front cost to get them. For this new system, however, we pay once to get the motif, and then once again every single time we change something in an outfit. We've even regressed, as we're now charged every time we want to change our dyes as well.

You then followed up with admitting that we are not required to pay gold for a motif. This is from the 31th post in this thread.

You pay for the motif one way or the other, whether it be grinding it out yourself

Pretty straight forward that you came to admit the original claim made in this thread was not correct.

Glad we cleared that up.

@idk

No, once again you have it wrong.

This :

Unfortunately, the associated per-use gold cost sabotages the system's true potential. Without a way to permanently unlock the styles

talks about per-use gold cost. When do we incur a per-use gold cost? Only with the outfitting system.

This :

For this new system, however, we pay once to get the motif

does not mention gold cost. Do you want to know why that is? Here's a hint, look at the intervening sentences for context clues!

This :

We can change mounts, pets, hairstyles, body markings, skins, adornments, hats, costumes, personalities, and dyes with absolutely no associated charge after the up-front cost to get them.

is the key!! I mention a nonspecific up-front cost to get mounts, pets, hairstyles, etc. Why is that? Because there are multiple ways to get them! How can you think I was talking about gold for motifs when I compared them to mounts, pets, etc.? You know that you're supposed to remember previous sentences in a discussion when reading new ones, right? I can't believe I have to tell you how paragraphs work.

Just admit that your whole argument was based on your own false preconceptions and move on, this is pathetic.

GiantFruitFly · February 2018

Recremen wrote: »

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that this is an unprecedented monetization strategy for cosmetics.

The per-use monetization strategy and the high costs for a outfit of full rare motifs with dyes seems like a artificially created justification for outfit change tokens to exist in the first place. If costs were removed, lowered, or used style materials instead, the value of the outfit change tokens would be low. After all, spending an outfit change token on only a very minor change is inefficient.

Although it is unlikely to change at this point, I still would like a cost removal or decrease. It is not that one can't really get the gold, but that this is an unprecedented move, considering that you had to have obtained the relevant motifs on your account somehow anyways. In the end most people probably won't be modifying their outfits constantly, but when a new outfit is created a significant gold cost might be incurred due to multiple edits to get it right. The look on the preview might not look as good under different lighting, posing your character in a different location, or someone might have a sudden change of heart regarding their newly created outfit. This means trips to and from the outfit station with gold costs incurred until the user is satisfied with the resulting outfit on a more indefinite period.

Stovahkiin · February 2018

Recremen wrote: »

Stovahkiin wrote: »

Sounds like a big exaggeration to me tbh. And the system could be far worse, sure the gold costs could be a bit lower, but other than that the system looks pretty decent to me.

There are two things that you also have to consider; while outfits can cost up to around 20k, a lot of them will be much cheaper to make. There’s also the fact that the prices, as well as how the system works overall, may well change over time after it goes live. At that point, far more people will be able to try it and Zeni can balance things out from there.

@Stovahkiin

I completely agree that other than the gold cost, the systems looks decent. I would go a step beyond that, as I already have done several times on the PTS forums, and say that the system itself goes above and beyond expectations. It offers every feature I ever advocated for, PLUS weapon dyes. That is why it's so unfortunate they went the route of charging per-use gold or real-life money.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that this is an unprecedented monetization strategy for cosmetics. Even gambling boxes at least permanently unlock the cosmetics you get from them. Some of the other stuff, like charging for voiceover or quests, was definitely an exaggeration but I'd like to hope it was more obvious that I was trying to hyperbolize there. The main point, however, is that this is unprecedented and bad for consumers. I'd much rather it be like every other cosmetic system, where you pay once up front and then can play around with it as much as you like afterwards. Monetize it that way, don't just go changing the methodology like this, you know?

I believe I do see where you’re coming from, and I agree that the pricing system could definately have been implemented better. I don’t, however, see Zeni straying from this system much now that they’ve got it. As I said, they may lower the price a bit but that’s probably it.

The outfit system is going to be in competition with the costumes in the crown store, and Zeni obviously wants to make sure that plenty of people still use the crown store as a “shortcut”, while other people can still make due without paying real $. I’m not too upset by it at the moment, and as it is now I’m inclined to just give it a chance for a while before setting my opinion in stone.

Kikke · February 2018

I'm amazed over what people can complain about..

25 000g for a FULL outfit, with all colours, all the most expensive slots. You do not have to pay anything untill your DONE with your outfit and colours. you can mix and smash as you want before you EVER pay a gold.

WHY THE **** ARE YOU COMPLAINING?!

Nothing is free; ingame, or in real life!

Recremen · February 2018

kikkehs wrote: »

I'm amazed over what people can complain about..

25 000g for a FULL outfit, with all colours, all the most expensive slots. You do not have to pay anything untill your DONE with your outfit and colours. you can mix and smash as you want before you EVER pay a gold.

WHY THE **** ARE YOU COMPLAINING?!

Nothing is free; ingame, or in real life!

@kikkehs

There's two main things to criticize with the system. First, as mentioned in the original post, is that the pricing is different from what we've come to expect in cosmetic systems. One of the most attractive things about the mounts, pets, costumes, etc. is that after you pay once you can switch between them with absolute freedom. You don't go to a stable and pay to get your giant tiger out of Big Cat Daycare, you just go to your collections tab and select it as your active mount. They could have done it the other way, but they didn't, and it's been a fantastic choice both for players and for encouraging new purchases. Same with how dyes work on everything except the outfit system. You just get the relevant achievement once and it's unlocked across your whole account, with no cost to change. To me, the real dumbfounding thing why some players are tripping over themselves to pay an extra cost when that's never been A Thing for previous cosmetic systems.

Second, the costs add up quickly and hit the players who have worked hardest to get the motifs the most. It's a huge expenditure to get every motif in the game. I know, I have them all. It takes a huge amount of time to get the AP, do the DLC dailies, do the trials, etc. etc. to get all these motifs. And when you don't have time or the group to get the motifs the hard way, you have to dip quite considerably into your gold reserves. I did what I could to get the four DLC dungeon motifs, for instance, but with the new outfit system coming out I ended up buying the missing chapters before the prices skyrocketed, since I don't know how viable farming them would be. That was about 1.5 million gone.

Now 1.5 million is a lot, but I've had more in the past. The problem is that they came out with another massive gold sink last year : housing. I just about break even every week between the luxury vendor expenditures and other costs. Those of us actually looking to engage with the game's systems are, not coincidentally, most impoverished by them. This is fine. This is expected. What's unexpected is to then get double-dipped on with a per-use gold cost for doing the outfit system. What's the point of getting all those motifs if you're then so poor you can't even take them out for a spin? Why does this system encourage players to pick one outfit and settle, instead of experimenting with new styles and new looks like all the other cosmetic systems?

Now maybe some people don't do any housing, maybe not everyone has these kinds of expenses, but that's not really my concern. Me engaging with the game's systems shouldn't invalidate my opinion on how expensive some new feature is. Indeed, it should have the opposite effect. Why are people coming in here acting like I'm not paying my dues when I'm out there doing it all?

Kikke · February 2018

outfitting too expensive for you? stick with costumes. I'm out.

ADarklore · February 2018

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

The amount of whining about a trivial gold coast is astounding to me. Literally go farm mats in the time it takes to make all these posts and you'll have enough gold for all your outfits for the next year.

You'll have to share your farming spots. A single outfit can cost 28k.

Nobody is going to share their farming spot and give away their $$... I can farm for an hour and earn roughly 25K in mat sales on Guild Trader.

Belegnole · February 2018

Recremen wrote: »

And it's not like people are going to suddenly not want to use the outfit system after we've asked for it for so long. People aren't going to just be sticking to their old armor just so they can keep free dyes.

Actually for a number of people that is exactly what is going to happen. I for one don't plan on paying yet again for things that I have already payed for one way or another. I have no issue paying for slots, but paying for a costume and dyes I do. Maybe it's because I'm not swimming in money like some others...then again maybe not.

idk · February 2018

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Longstride wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OPs comment is not entirely correct.

Yes, once we have an outfit slot it costs gold to commit an outfit to that slot which can the. Be used ans switched to at will without additional cost unless the player chooses to commit a new outfit to that slot.

However, with the exception of a few select motifs that are crown store exclusives, motifs are available in game for free. Buying them from another player becomes a choice. As such it is not arelevant part of a discussion of gold costs for the system.

So there is really only one aspect that requires a cost of gold for the system.

You are arguing semantics here. Yes we don't HAVE to buy them,but in reality 95% of consumers will buy some motifs to complete their outfits. The point of the OP stands and is quite accurate.

No, Op is talking semantics just as the 95% number is pulled out of thin air. OPs comments were not correct and I was merely pointing out the correct information.

@idk My comments were correct, and I already pointed out why. I understand you don't like getting destroyed in these threads but it's your own fault for following me around the forums trying to argue things that are out of your experience level.

Destroyed? Lol. Has not happened in this thread by anyone.

It is a fact we can permanently unlock a motif. I merely stated the fact we do not have to buy any of the in game motifs unlike how it was presented in the OP's first paragraph. It's merely a choice to buy the motif, get it yourself or do without.

Cannot destroy a message of facts with blurred lines. If I've commented in one of your threads previously in disagreement with your post it's merely either something open to oppinion or something incorrect as stated.

Nah, you don't permanently unlock motifs if there's still a gold cost to switch them around. What you have there is permanently unlocking the opportunity to pay to switch to it. And try reading my first paragraph again. I don't know if it's a language barrier or something but you are taking the idea of paying way too literally and focusing on it way too much. You pay for the motif one way or the other, whether it be grinding it out yourself, buying it from other players, or buying it in the cash shop. You always pay. If you can't wrap your mind around that then try taking a step back. Do some critical thinking.

You may be correct about the language barrier but I cannot know if English is your first language or not.

Thank you for finally admitting your comment in the first paragraph of the OP is incorrect, that there are menas to obtain the motifs without spending gold.

I have never been so destroyed. But seriously, we really don't have a reason to feel entitled to have all this just given to us. BTW, I do have most of the motifs and most of which I obtained by playing the game over time. That's part of the idea. The other part is to give actual value to motifs. They will increase in value.

Anyhow. Seems this has been straightens out. Thx. .

@idk My first language is English.

Thank you for finally admitting your comment in the first paragraph of the OP is incorrect

And that's why I have to ask if maybe yours isn't. There is nothing incorrect about my first paragraph. That's twice I've explained it to you now. I literally never mentioned gold in the first paragraph. I never implied that you had to pay with gold to get motifs. If you don't understand, just ask. If you're being obtuse on purpose because you can't compete in the marketplace of ideas, then "quit" the thread like you did all the others. I don't have time to babysit your petulant tantrums in my threads.

This is from your OP of this thread. Clearly stating you are speaking of the cost of gold concerning the motifs and the entire system.

The release of the outfit system has the potential to be a serious boon to aesthetic control and experimentation, a great achievement for the health of the game. Unfortunately, the associated per-use gold cost sabotages the system's true potential. Without a way to permanently unlock the styles, this system loses an important feature that has been a staple of the cosmetic systems since their introduction. We can change mounts, pets, hairstyles, body markings, skins, adornments, hats, costumes, personalities, and dyes with absolutely no associated charge after the up-front cost to get them. For this new system, however, we pay once to get the motif, and then once again every single time we change something in an outfit. We've even regressed, as we're now charged every time we want to change our dyes as well.

You then followed up with admitting that we are not required to pay gold for a motif. This is from the 31th post in this thread.

You pay for the motif one way or the other, whether it be grinding it out yourself

Pretty straight forward that you came to admit the original claim made in this thread was not correct.

Glad we cleared that up.

@idk

No, once again you have it wrong.

This :

Unfortunately, the associated per-use gold cost sabotages the system's true potential. Without a way to permanently unlock the styles

talks about per-use gold cost. When do we incur a per-use gold cost? Only with the outfitting system.

This :

For this new system, however, we pay once to get the motif

does not mention gold cost. Do you want to know why that is? Here's a hint, look at the intervening sentences for context clues!

This :

We can change mounts, pets, hairstyles, body markings, skins, adornments, hats, costumes, personalities, and dyes with absolutely no associated charge after the up-front cost to get them.

is the key!! I mention a nonspecific up-front cost to get mounts, pets, hairstyles, etc. Why is that? Because there are multiple ways to get them! How can you think I was talking about gold for motifs when I compared them to mounts, pets, etc.? You know that you're supposed to remember previous sentences in a discussion when reading new ones, right? I can't believe I have to tell you how paragraphs work.

Just admit that your whole argument was based on your own false preconceptions and move on, this is pathetic.

Evidently the OP is not very clear based on your latest reply to me.

No offense, but when one clearly makes a paragraph about gold cost in the second sentence but merely mentioned "pay" for something in the same paragraph it is commonly taken as paying in gold. Common English composition, but an understandable error. Paragraphs normally share the same tone throughout it's duration. I also understand you probably have an explanation to this error to explain it away. I am not really interested in that explanation since you have already made clear what the miscommunication was all about.

Thx for clearing that up. Have a good day. Enjoy the game.

Rohamad_Ali · February 2018

its not live yet and they said on ESO live prices can change before live so ...

idk · February 2018

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

its not live yet and they said on ESO live prices can change before live so ...

This exactly, though I expect motifs will still be required since they need justification if crafting in them is no longer needed.. The prices of actually using the service can be adjusted.

Doctordarkspawn · February 2018

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

its not live yet and they said on ESO live prices can change before live so ...

They can change. But they wont.

Because changes like this usually dont make it through to live.

Dont delude you'reself, or us.

LadyAstrum · February 2018

Remove dye gold cost. It's unnecessary considering we don't pay gold to currently use our obtained dyes.

Waffennacht · February 2018

Ya know, you could just literally craft said pieces out of lvl 150 or lower to see how it looks if are worried about gold costs