Does Zenimax needs to improve the servers?

Turelus · February 2018

Vaoh wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I don't think the servers are the only issue.

From my understanding of what ZOS has said it's more about the number of calls the servers are getting due to how many different layers there are to a calculation of "I use my skill on these people" which gets worse when two large groups fight.

I'm not saying there wouldn't be some improvement with upgraded servers, but I don't think it's the silver bullet everyone thinks it is, if it was they would have done it because this is a persistent embarrassing issue for them.

Honestly, I feel more lag now despite Morrowind gutting sustain (way more heavy attacks vs skill casts) and friendly AoE effects being invisible. The performance is getting *worse* almost every patch, not staying the same or improving. I’m convinced ZOS doesn’t care at this point tbh

I don't see many big groups in Cyrodiil doing just heavy attacks, additionally anyone attacking with a lightning staff is still going to be effectively doing the same as throwing an AoE skill.
Friendly AoE effects is a visual/graphical change, that's aimed at your client and your machine.

I think ZOS does care because this is a huge black mark for them, however people are expecting things which a lot of games have never been able to produce. We could take more checks away from the servers and place them back on the client (as per pre-lighting patch apparently) however then you'll also giving bots and CE users more powers again.

In any case, ZOS might just be too scared to touch the old code fearing they might break the game further.

It could also just be something which isn't possible.

EVE Online's devs recently said* that even though their servers are cutting edge win machines the game still crumbles during large battles because the code isn't designed in a way to be run on multiple processors. They would basically have to rewrite the game to solve "lag" and that's not a good investment for the company or the players.
*this is what I picked up from some Reddit threads and may not be accurate.

It could be ZOS is in the same position. They might understand the bottlenecks within the code but it's simply not viable to fix them.
That said they do have updates often to make improvements, however people expect each one of those improvements to be an instant fix which solves everything. Personally I am just glad we're not still in the age twelve people fighting causes people to be booted from the game.

Zbigb4life · February 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

Devilhand wrote: »

The game has more then 3 years now and no improvements what so ever have been made to the game servers, every day that passes the lag in both PvE and specially PvP is getting worse and worse. Do you think Zenimax should invest in improving the servers and deal with the lag, which cant be tolerated in an online game.

Do you have a spy in ZOS to know that they have never upgrade any hardware to support this conspiracy theory?

Despite claims to the contrary, they know this is a problem and have made changes and tests to try and improve it.

I rarely have crippling lag in Cyro now. Used to happen in every big battle and ESO is not the only game this happens in.

I'm pretty sure the servers are high end equipment. It would be pretty stupid to run the game, as big of an investment as it is, on a server equivalent of a hamster on a wheel.

It may very well be a coding problem which is not easy to fix or it could be they underestimated the strain the game would put on hardware and Internet infrastructure.

Also people are always so quick to blame the server. If it's the server then how is it that we are on the same server at the same time, right next to each other; you have lag and I dont?

If it was the server, everyone would lag at the same time

Do you have a spy in ZOS to know they actually have upgraded their hardware and to claim their servers are high end equipment. Probably not but anyways you feel you need to critizise this player.

I had constant lag (on console btw) for the last 3 years as soon as there are more then 10-15 players fighting (everytime you try to take or defend a keep).

Fact is these issues are going on for 3 years by now and still they haven't improved of solved any of it. What do you think it could be... ignorance from their part or they just don't know how to fix it.

Also your claim that if it was the server, everyone would lag at the same time is wrong. The server can handle only a limited actions going on at the same time; so if multiple people casting spells/attacks the server gets overloaded causing lag for some but not everyone.

Elsonso · February 2018

Turelus wrote: »

I think ZOS does care because this is a huge black mark for them, however people are expecting things which a lot of games have never been able to produce.

They might care, but my guess is that no one there is losing sleep because of it. ESO is a successful game, and it is successful despite years of performance problems in the game. They give the outward appearance of running the game on a shoestring budget, focusing attention on development new stuff, not quality and operations. I have no idea if that is actually the case, but whatever they are doing seems to be working, and successfully.

A reputation for less than stellar performance, lack of attention to fixing problems, and passive customer support isn't going to stop the next game from being popular, if they pick the right IP.

Turelus wrote: »

(EVE Online) would basically have to rewrite the game to solve "lag" and that's not a good investment for the company or the players.

It could be ZOS is in the same position. They might understand the bottlenecks within the code but it's simply not viable to fix them.

I do believe that this is the case. Whatever is in store for the next game they write will have new client and server game engines that will address some of these issues. I can dream that they apply that back to ESO when it happens. After all, we are very likely funding that game when we buy Crowns and ESO Plus.

WTB Spy in ZOS.

Lysette · February 2018

Turelus wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I don't think the servers are the only issue.

From my understanding of what ZOS has said it's more about the number of calls the servers are getting due to how many different layers there are to a calculation of "I use my skill on these people" which gets worse when two large groups fight.

I'm not saying there wouldn't be some improvement with upgraded servers, but I don't think it's the silver bullet everyone thinks it is, if it was they would have done it because this is a persistent embarrassing issue for them.

Honestly, I feel more lag now despite Morrowind gutting sustain (way more heavy attacks vs skill casts) and friendly AoE effects being invisible. The performance is getting *worse* almost every patch, not staying the same or improving. I’m convinced ZOS doesn’t care at this point tbh

I don't see many big groups in Cyrodiil doing just heavy attacks, additionally anyone attacking with a lightning staff is still going to be effectively doing the same as throwing an AoE skill.
Friendly AoE effects is a visual/graphical change, that's aimed at your client and your machine.

I think ZOS does care because this is a huge black mark for them, however people are expecting things which a lot of games have never been able to produce. We could take more checks away from the servers and place them back on the client (as per pre-lighting patch apparently) however then you'll also giving bots and CE users more powers again.

In any case, ZOS might just be too scared to touch the old code fearing they might break the game further.

It could also just be something which isn't possible.

EVE Online's devs recently said* that even though their servers are cutting edge win machines the game still crumbles during large battles because the code isn't designed in a way to be run on multiple processors. They would basically have to rewrite the game to solve "lag" and that's not a good investment for the company or the players.
*this is what I picked up from some Reddit threads and may not be accurate.

It could be ZOS is in the same position. They might understand the bottlenecks within the code but it's simply not viable to fix them.
That said they do have updates often to make improvements, however people expect each one of those improvements to be an instant fix which solves everything. Personally I am just glad we're not still in the age twelve people fighting causes people to be booted from the game.

Well. in EVE that happens with thousands of players participating in a battle -- not with a few hundred like in ESO.

Romo · February 2018

No.

They need to "fix" their code, not the servers.

Unfortunately their code/engine is not fixable, it would have to be replaced.

Only other way to "fix" it is to close down Cry(SWTOR did this with their large scale combat zone).... or eliminate the lighting "upgrade", plus move all the stuff to our machines that used to be there, however due to bots/cheats etc, they will not do this.

magictucktuck · February 2018

now i have a decent computer and live in Arizona, but i play on ultra and have no lag issues in trials or any PVE except when in wayrest sometimes, when i do i stand still for 20 sec and its gone. and also another note i stay out of the main campaign at peek hours and play in the 7 day, and in the 7 day even when full i have no lag.

and compared to any other mmo i have played that seems normal / better since it looks better and thats less lag than any other mmo i have played + its all avoidable

xSkullfox · February 2018

1 hamster is not enough !!!

kojou · February 2018

Do we know for a fact they haven't been upgrading their infrastructure all along? I haven't been involved with any hardware procurement meetings at ZoS, so I really can't say for certain...

I'm not saying there aren't performance issues with the game (there are at times), but I can't exactly draw the conclusion that they aren't upgrading their infrastructure based on that.

Apache_Kid · February 2018

vamp_emily wrote: »

I'm sure most of you are not aware of this but we do have professionals who created and maintaining this game. I'm not trying to be rude, but i'm so glad most of you are just users. I've seen very few suggestions that would make this game better.

From my experience I do lag sometimes when they have the test server up, but most times i'm lag free. Even when i am in the middle of 50 enemy players.

If you are lagging all the time then there is a good chance it is not Zeni's fault. It could be your super cheap computer or bad connection.

Tell that to my Xbox One X with ESO on a SSD and my 50Mb/s download speed.

I have all of those things and my performance in Cyrodiil and Trials along with many other console players is beyond horrid.

I have the most top of the line specs for console gaming. It is not my "super cheap computer or bad connection."

If the most powerful console on the market with an external SSD cannot run the game properly then it shouldn't even be marketed for consoles.

Apache_Kid · February 2018

Bad coding and spaghetti code is just as much a part of the problem as the servers if not MORE.

One of the biggest issues with performances on console is the CRASHES in Cyrodiil and trials.

These crashes happen with your screen freezing and your TV makes a loud stuttering noise, and you are back at the Xbox dashboard.

As someone who has spent countless hours of their own time trying to discover what's wrong with this game, I can tell you, directly from the mouth of more than one Xbox employee to my ear over the phone, that these kinds of crashes happen on the Xbox one when the system encouters a CODING ERROR in the game. These coding error crashes happen to me in all DLC areas, in Cyrodill frequently, and in trials. And by frequently I mean that not a day goes by where I play in Cyrodiil and I don't get one of these coding error crashes.

Elsonso · February 2018

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

Do we know for a fact they haven't been upgrading their infrastructure all along? I haven't been involved with any hardware procurement meetings at ZoS, so I really can't say for certain...

I'm not saying there aren't performance issues with the game (there are at times), but I can't exactly draw the conclusion that they aren't upgrading their infrastructure based on that.

There was an interview with Matt Firor back in the DAoC days where he revealed that one glitch was that they could not get financing for rental of the server hardware. They had no credit rating. They had to buy the hardware for the servers. This left them stuck owning a lot of obsolete equipment when it came time to upgrade.

While we do not know for sure, my guess is that ZOS is leasing the megaserver hardware. If this is the case, then yes, it is very likely that they have been upgrading their infrastructure.

Just tossing this out there.

Apache_Kid · February 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

Do we know for a fact they haven't been upgrading their infrastructure all along? I haven't been involved with any hardware procurement meetings at ZoS, so I really can't say for certain...

I'm not saying there aren't performance issues with the game (there are at times), but I can't exactly draw the conclusion that they aren't upgrading their infrastructure based on that.

There was an interview with Matt Firor back in the DAoC days where he revealed that one glitch was that they could not get financing for rental of the server hardware. They had no credit rating. They had to buy the hardware for the servers. This left them stuck owning a lot of obsolete equipment when it came time to upgrade.

While we do not know for sure, my guess is that ZOS is leasing the megaserver hardware. If this is the case, then yes, it is very likely that they have been upgrading their infrastructure.

Just tossing this out there.

Even if they are leasing it they will only get what they pay for in terms of performance.

Elsonso · February 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

Do we know for a fact they haven't been upgrading their infrastructure all along? I haven't been involved with any hardware procurement meetings at ZoS, so I really can't say for certain...

I'm not saying there aren't performance issues with the game (there are at times), but I can't exactly draw the conclusion that they aren't upgrading their infrastructure based on that.

There was an interview with Matt Firor back in the DAoC days where he revealed that one glitch was that they could not get financing for rental of the server hardware. They had no credit rating. They had to buy the hardware for the servers. This left them stuck owning a lot of obsolete equipment when it came time to upgrade.

While we do not know for sure, my guess is that ZOS is leasing the megaserver hardware. If this is the case, then yes, it is very likely that they have been upgrading their infrastructure.

Just tossing this out there.

Even if they are leasing it they will only get what they pay for in terms of performance.

But they have the option to increase and decrease server capacity, as part of the contract, as well as upgrades to that hardware, also as part of the contract. This is easily done with leased equipment.

Apache_Kid · February 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

Do we know for a fact they haven't been upgrading their infrastructure all along? I haven't been involved with any hardware procurement meetings at ZoS, so I really can't say for certain...

I'm not saying there aren't performance issues with the game (there are at times), but I can't exactly draw the conclusion that they aren't upgrading their infrastructure based on that.

There was an interview with Matt Firor back in the DAoC days where he revealed that one glitch was that they could not get financing for rental of the server hardware. They had no credit rating. They had to buy the hardware for the servers. This left them stuck owning a lot of obsolete equipment when it came time to upgrade.

While we do not know for sure, my guess is that ZOS is leasing the megaserver hardware. If this is the case, then yes, it is very likely that they have been upgrading their infrastructure.

Just tossing this out there.

Even if they are leasing it they will only get what they pay for in terms of performance.

But they have the option to increase and decrease server capacity, as part of the contract, as well as upgrades to that hardware, also as part of the contract. This is easily done with leased equipment.

You are right but my point is that we have no idea of knowing whether or not they exercised those options.

Jitterbug · February 2018

Banana wrote: »

And one for the lower portion of the planet where the other people live.

Nobody cares about the lower half...

phileunderx2 · February 2018

Performance right now on ps4 is terrible for me. Doesn't matter which server I am on or am I trying to play pre or pvp. Anytime I try to play during busy times I am plagued by constant disconnects. The problem isn't my Internet as I check my network and it is fine. The game plays fairly well on pc and I almost never get disconnected. So something is messed up.

Jade1986 · February 2018

Rev Rielle wrote: »

They really do.
I get 350-450 ms latency playing ESO, all other MMOs are around 250-300 ms.

Yep, I live less than 30 mins from the datacenters here in Germany

ESO avg - 65- 150 ms latency depending on situation.

SWTOR avg - 35-45 ms , Servers and datacenters in IRELAND

Wildstar was a whopping 25 MS

Wow 25

Diablo -30

Seeing a trend here?

Devilhand · February 2018

No response from ZOS yet? Beside the oofensive/play fair one?

Can someone link them into the thread please.

Need more votes!!

ADarklore · February 2018

Zbigb4life wrote: »

Unfortunately they will never fix it. All they care about is more mounts, houses, dyes and costumes so they can get easy money without any effort. One would think by now they have earned enough money to upgrade their servers.

Yes I know, because the same department that works on art is the same exact department that deals with the servers. ::eyeroll::

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2018

I wont sit here and pretend I know anything about what goes on behind the scenes at ZOS, in a server room, or an MMO company generally. I am, however, someone that has been playing this game since beta on a rig that is in the top 1% of performance specs with a very solid internet connection.

No secret that I do not play this game as much as I used to, and that is largely based on performance. Currently, my main goals are working with a VAS+2 progression group and trying to finally make a dent in my alliance rank, in other words, both end game PVE and PVP. Both are currently plagued by performance issues, and the problems seem to get worse every patch.

I dont know if they need to rebuild the server room from the ground up, fire the hamsters powering it, or hire someone smarter than anyone currently working at ZOS to fix their code problems. I have literally no idea, so I wont sit her and pretend I know the solution.

What I do know is that I cannot PVP for an evening without at least on load screen that most be crashed or run a 12 man trial without at least one issue causing someone to disconnect. I also think that the community, despite the forum rage, has been VERY understanding about this issue because we know that underneath all the mess, this is one of the greatest video games/MMOs ever created and we want it to succeed.

My suggestion for the devs would be to STOP, regroup, and establish a clear and transparent plan to fix the problems. This does not include balance or crownstore items. Fix the damn game, then sell as many freaking crown crates as you want.

Just my 2 cents pieces of gold, which thanks to inflation rampant bot trains, arent worth what they used to be.

playsforfun · February 2018

every time i try log or move a zone i get booted from the game tonight (EU server) so i say yes

akredon_ESO · February 2018

Yes, But my caveat to this is there may be something more than just the Server its self. In beginning to wonder if they have bottle neck issues in that area. The amount of Data that goes in and out of the data center that the Game is hosted at may be why we are having issues. Nooooww Whether or not ZOS is going to be open with us on any network bottlenecks is a whole other matter. I just ran a pingplotter to the IP address they have on the website that is for "testing" your network connectivity and i was getting a good bit of packet loss. I may post my data later once i filter everything

QuebraRegra · February 2018

Romo wrote: »

No.

They need to "fix" their code, not the servers.

Unfortunately their code/engine is not fixable, it would have to be replaced.

Only other way to "fix" it is to close down Cry(SWTOR did this with their large scale combat zone).... or eliminate the lighting "upgrade", plus move all the stuff to our machines that used to be there, however due to bots/cheats etc, they will not do this.

trim down the excess... get rid of pets, poisons (generally anything that creates extraneous calcs), and modify proc sets. Move dueling to separate instance (server) arena. Fewer appearance options, etc. Basically pair down any thing that would create additional load on the servers (some of which are desirable features unfortunately).

I've known other games to claim that server issues were due to inventory and itemization...

Kronuxx · February 2018

Hey ZOS do you see the overwhelming one sided votes? Yes, a small proportion of the total players visit the forums, but it is a representation I believe of what the majority of the eso population feel.

That's not to say that the solution to improving server performance is straight forward or easy, but at the same time it doesn't mean that game/server performance due to consistently high ping and low frame rates should be left by the wayside, ignored with silence. Whatever may be the primary cause, it should be addressed and I guarantee you there is a solution. Whether you choose to implement that solution or not is up to you, but at the very least you should do us the honor and communicate with us whether or not you plan to address this issue and solve it in the near future (and I mean very near future). With that communication, you'll let me, and more importantly the community know your stance and what you plan to do. And even more pertinent, you'll give us the players the info we need to know whether we should continue investing time in your product, or not. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel

Etrella · February 2018

We need more votes!

Kwik1 · February 2018

I play a LOT in the evening on NA server during the peak hours on a PC that is 5 years old with the only upgrade being a newer old fashioned HD (not SSD) because mine crashed and I had to reinstall everything.

I have zero lag in PvE. Zero. Nada. None. I go into PvP maybe once a week again during peak times when I have to wait in que around 100 to get in. I will join the zerg and have 100-150 people everywhere, maybe more and I occasionally have lag for about 5 seconds but not often and it goes away quickly after that.

I had lag about a month ago and found out it was an addon that I turned off and have had no lag since.

I don't say this to defend ZOS as they have a lot of things they need to fix, but to simply say that I am not in any way going to blame all the lag on them. I understand console is different and can't speak for them, but for PC if I can run absolutely lag free on a 5 yr old machine and you have lag with your brand new super computer sent from God himself, then maybe you should look at the connection between you and the home servers.

Now I could be totally off base and maybe ZOS loves me and they game me special access to the non laggy server and I am the only one connected to it, but in game I see someone shout in /z about lag and you will see maybe 2 people say yes and a dozen all say no, they are doing fine.

I am Very experienced with laggy servers after playing DDO for years and I can say with utmost certainty that these servers are a million times better.

Look at your connections or between you and ZOS itself maybe instead of just wanting to blame everything on them?

Now if you want to blame them for not fixing classes then I am with you, or upgrading crafting, or dozens of other things but lag is not one of them.

Bhaal5 · February 2018

Kwik1 wrote: »

I play a LOT in the evening on NA server during the peak hours on a PC that is 5 years old with the only upgrade being a newer old fashioned HD (not SSD) because mine crashed and I had to reinstall everything.

I have zero lag in PvE. Zero. Nada. None. I go into PvP maybe once a week again during peak times when I have to wait in que around 100 to get in. I will join the zerg and have 100-150 people everywhere, maybe more and I occasionally have lag for about 5 seconds but not often and it goes away quickly after that.

I had lag about a month ago and found out it was an addon that I turned off and have had no lag since.

I don't say this to defend ZOS as they have a lot of things they need to fix, but to simply say that I am not in any way going to blame all the lag on them. I understand console is different and can't speak for them, but for PC if I can run absolutely lag free on a 5 yr old machine and you have lag with your brand new super computer sent from God himself, then maybe you should look at the connection between you and the home servers.

Now I could be totally off base and maybe ZOS loves me and they game me special access to the non laggy server and I am the only one connected to it, but in game I see someone shout in /z about lag and you will see maybe 2 people say yes and a dozen all say no, they are doing fine.

I am Very experienced with laggy servers after playing DDO for years and I can say with utmost certainty that these servers are a million times better.

Look at your connections or between you and ZOS itself maybe instead of just wanting to blame everything on them?

Now if you want to blame them for not fixing classes then I am with you, or upgrading crafting, or dozens of other things but lag is not one of them.

Im so jealous of you. As im experienced with laggy connections from the country i live in. Eso is the only mmo ive had issues with, orginially on pc and then to ps4.
Zero-minimal issue with eve, swtor, gw2, neverwinter (if you can count that as a mmo).

CrazYDunm3r · February 2018

Tonight on PC EU Sotha Sil the fps and ping were so bad that my skills had a delay of 3 seconds when it was at its worst (taking into account they were casted to begin with). Great time for low skilled players to finally shittalk me since they could kill me easily now. I never raged this hard in ESO since... ever. I like the game very much, but it now came to a point of being unplayable. ZOS I know you are working on the servers as you say, but please explain what you guys are doing or be atleast a bit more open about it so we know something is going to change. At this point I'm not refreshing ESO plus until this is fixed. I dislike to whine, but it became so bad guys come on.

JackDaniell · February 2018

Given ESO's current state its a solid 6-7/10 title. They loose out at least 2 points to the atrocious server performance.

Honestly if this game wasn't the laggiest MMO on the market it would be the most successful one.

MrDenimChicken · February 2018

Yeah I spend all this time getting the best gear and researching all this stuff to get my mag NB as good as possible.

Finally get to cyrodil, and even after trying to find less zergy spots, the lag is so bad that all the time I spent making my character's build doesn't matter anymore...when it takes 2-3 seconds to bar swap and actually breaking free from a CC is just a pipe dream.

Moments when stuff like that happens is pretty deflating to be honest. Just makes you sit there and be like, "why did I even bother?"