What is Good DPS?

jokeaccount · February 2018

i usually try to aim for around 125 a second

on a completely unrelated note, i've been getting voted out of dungeons a lot lately

Splattercat_83 · February 2018

kongkim wrote: »

This is what is wrong with the game.

If you don't use 90% the same skills and sets as everybody else you will never be able to do end content in this game.

I always play a little out of the box as I find the most fun thing to do, is trying out new builds. And that is almost not possible in this game unless you do as 90% of all the other people in the game.

For me, the most fun I have played yet is a hybrid build using both stamina and magic. But that is not a viable option if I ever want to do any other thing then normal dungeons.

The game and its options are really open at that start of the game and when you level. But later on, the options become very little.

And what I say here ofc. all depends on what people see and good DPS. But whatever people say here. If you are not one of the 90% of people you will get kicked or smacked talked all the time ingame.

In 95 % of the game you can play anyway you want and have good success. Its just end game content that you can't go in with a sub optimal build. You have to go in with some of the best gear in the game and that really falls down to like 4 or 5 sets for DPS.

in overland content you can run around naked with no weapons and fist everything to death and still do pretty well. In PVP there will always be the "best setups" for each class, buttttttt there is alot more wiggle room with builds in there. That do well. It usually comes down to the skill of the other guy.

zaria · February 2018

adeptusminor wrote: »

I've always liked the idea of saying 25-30k dps is a solid minimum target to hit as a DPS. When I was at CP cap, more or less BiS gear and only hitting 18-20k and I heard about all these people getting much higher numbers, it piqued my curiosity about what they were doing that I wasn't. That in turn lead me to read up, watch videos and research the game more in depth and improved my dps numbers dramatically. When people say 15k dps is fine, it is for most content, but I think it also does a disservice to some people and leads them to think they are doing the best they can do and the people hitting higher numbers are only getting those numbers by animation cancelling and cheesing parses when it's actually better rotations, CP allotment, and better more synergized gear.

In other words, if you are a dps and hitting 15k or whatever and are happy with that, cool. Just be aware that it is possible to increase those numbers significantly with a bit of learning and practice, and it makes going through harder content that much easier for you and your group.

edit: I also realize that a lot of people play this game casually and don't care about their numbers in the slightest. No amount of in game information or out of game information is going to change their playstyle. That's perfectly fine. The people who do want to improve and get better are likely to look towards outside sources anyway.

Part of the problem is lots of advice are non helpful or rather harmful.
"I do 12K dps how to improve", Typical advice: "get vMA weapons and master architect"
And yes that is as useful as telling some to buy an helicopter to reduce commuting time

Back almost a year ago after returning to ESO and reaching cp160 I tried to get my templar better, this was before Morrowind so sustain was not an major issue, did above 14K on skeleton doing sweeps with animation canceling and keeping entropy up, using an bis animation with lots of DoT increased this to 16K I found it hardly worth the time single target. Using just just dark flare with entropy took me close to 18K, I gave up and started healing instead, never looked back

Seeing now that 18K was decent for an <cp200 magplar.

GawdSB · February 2018

I'm curious if there is any discrepancy between pc and console when it comes to dps. I always thought that PC just would always have more ups, but I never actually seen a comparison.

GawdSB · February 2018

kongkim wrote: »

All you DPS elite people. here. Would you kick me for running a build like this.

http://www.eso-skillfactory.com/en/share/23251/
x2 Slimecraw
x5 Medusa
x5 Mechanical Acuity

I have around 470 CP.

I do not like to make builds that 90% of all others use. But I like to be able to do some content later on and not just put the game away.

I'm not an elite member, but I think you can where whatever you want when it comes to dungeons as long as you produce. When it comes to trials though, thats something different.

Jura23 · February 2018

question: how am I supposed to "measure" my dps? I didnt notice such feature in the game.

note: I dont want to install any addons.

Kihamai · February 2018

Jura23 wrote: »

question: how am I supposed to "measure" my dps? I didnt notice such feature in the game.

note: I dont want to install any addons.

You can measure your DPS if you own a target dummy, or you can use a guildmate's/friend's target dummy if they have one. They are placed in homes, and you basically beat on it until you kill it. Then it'll post your DPS in the chat box.

You can purchase target dummies with writ vouchers, at a guild store, or in the crown store.

Otherwise, you can't see your DPS without add-ons or in any other situations. If you really want to improve your DPS and see if it's consistent, you should at least download the add-on Combat Metrics. It also provides a guesstimate of the group's DPS and what percent of the DPS you're doing.

Ep1kMalware · February 2018

kylewwefan wrote: »

We see this question asked all the time and ranges from 30k as an average to 50k or 60k elite.

While there are definitely some that need work, like doing 10k or less, you don’t really ever see a fair number that can be reached by most players.

10k is bad, because a properly geared out setup elite will hit that easily with heavy attacks alone. Seriously.

Shoot for 20K by your lonesome self.

A PetSorc using WoE, LL, pet and heavy attack will hit 20K. Easily.

A stam build using Endless,Trap, Poison Inject, Heavy Attack and whatever spammable will hit 20K or right close to it.

People that ask these questions are typically not elite, BiS gear max CP. you need to do just enough damage to complete content. Add survival and sustain a drawn out fight.

let’s talk about the blue tree in CP. i have no math to back me up, but if you add up penetration that you know will always be there, this gives you your biggest gain by far. You want to hit your target with everything you do like they’re naked.

It severely gimps your damage if you’re not reaching decent penetration levels. Especially magic users rocking a whopping 2000 spell damage.

BiS mundus for pug, solo and scrub should be the lover by far. And sharpened is likely still your best weapon trait to get good results.

I find myself doing less damage screwing around trying to keep up some complex rotation that I suck at then keeping it simple.

Use your ultimates. Many pugs I run never use their ultimates. They’re holding onto it waiting for the right time....the time never comes. Use your ultimates, they build back quick and add so much to your total damage it makes no sense to sit on them. Even dropping them on just the trash mobs.

If you can do 15k by yourself you'll be fine for most content. 25k by yourself is good for most vet trials. 37-40 for most classes is considered very good. stam nb can pull the highest parses, 50-51k solo. Which is rare and exceptional.

If you're just looking for vet trials 25k is fine. I've been gotten plenty of good scores from teams that averaged 25-30k

Ep1kMalware · February 2018

kongkim wrote: »

All you DPS elite people. here. Would you kick me for running a build like this.

http://www.eso-skillfactory.com/en/share/23251/
x2 Slimecraw
x5 Medusa
x5 Mechanical Acuity

I have around 470 CP.

I do not like to make builds that 90% of all others use. But I like to be able to do some content later on and not just put the game away.

Acuity is bis atm. For veteran 4 man content I often run either

2slimecraw
3vo
2 vma/1vma daggers/bow
5 acuity

OR
5 war machine
5 acuity
2/1 vma daggers/bow

Most the good trial guilds I'm in don't really care wat your build is (generally speaking). you either pull the dps or you don't. You can be a hybrid bow/bow build in heavy armour, as long as you pull 25k dps you can run veteran craglorn trials.

Ep1kMalware · February 2018

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

kongkim wrote: »

All you DPS elite people. here. Would you kick me for running a build like this.

http://www.eso-skillfactory.com/en/share/23251/
x2 Slimecraw
x5 Medusa
x5 Mechanical Acuity

I have around 470 CP.

I do not like to make builds that 90% of all others use. But I like to be able to do some content later on and not just put the game away.

Acuity is bis atm. For veteran 4 man content I often run either

2slimecraw
3vo
2 vma/1vma daggers/bow
5 acuity

OR
5 war machine
5 acuity
2/1 vma daggers/bow

Most the good trial guilds I'm in don't really care wat your build is (generally speaking). you either pull the dps or you don't. You can be a hybrid bow/bow build in heavy armour, as long as you pull 25k dps you can run veteran craglorn trials.

Forgot to say that's 25k with ele drain/pierce. So it is VERY achievable.

Asardes · February 2018

Imza wrote: »

Weaving light attacks on the back bar is at most 10% of your DPS, but it's also more difficult. For example I always get stuck in caltrops and miss a weave there. Without weaving at least 2-3 heavy attacks on the front is pretty hard to sustain any kind of rotation on a stamina character, and it's pretty easy to pull since you have a ~400ms window to press that skill button while you charge the heavy attack; light attack window is probably ~100-150 ms. On stamina sorcerer you even have a bonus to heavy attacks from your Bound Armaments so there's no reason to not weave them.

^^ is BS @Asardes

Now add 250 ping EACH WAY

I have the Alcast Summoner build and I am unable to hit 20k DPS

I am unable to weave or animation cancel successfully every time - sometimes it works - sometimes it doesn't...

Ping is the enemy of DPS

.

If you actually go and open a parse from some of the people posting here you'll see light attacks make 10% to 12% of the parse at most. Not 60%. So you should pull 36K when they pull 40K if you don't weave at all on back bar. So that's not where the problem lies. 20K on magicka sorcerer is Liquid Lightning, Blockade, and a few heavy attacks on top. I've tested that myself. It's not the Internet, but yourself.

Ep1kMalware · February 2018

Asardes wrote: »

Imza wrote: »

Weaving light attacks on the back bar is at most 10% of your DPS, but it's also more difficult. For example I always get stuck in caltrops and miss a weave there. Without weaving at least 2-3 heavy attacks on the front is pretty hard to sustain any kind of rotation on a stamina character, and it's pretty easy to pull since you have a ~400ms window to press that skill button while you charge the heavy attack; light attack window is probably ~100-150 ms. On stamina sorcerer you even have a bonus to heavy attacks from your Bound Armaments so there's no reason to not weave them.

^^ is BS @Asardes

Now add 250 ping EACH WAY

I have the Alcast Summoner build and I am unable to hit 20k DPS

I am unable to weave or animation cancel successfully every time - sometimes it works - sometimes it doesn't...

Ping is the enemy of DPS

.

If you actually go and open a parse from some of the people posting here you'll see light attacks make 10% to 12% of the parse at most. Not 60%. So you should pull 36K when they pull 40K if you don't weave at all on back bar. So that's not where the problem lies. 20K on magicka sorcerer is Liquid Lightning, Blockade, and a few heavy attacks on top. I've tested that myself. It's not the Internet, but yourself.

Sounds about right. I usually loose ~15% when I'm real laggy. Also consider the higher your dps is the more each mistake will ding you. Those really high parses have to be absolutely precise. if you range 20-30k dps those mistakes are far more forgiving.

There's almost no excuse for not hitting 10-15k dps. You can get those numbers with a couple dots and heavy attack spam.

Aisle9 · February 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

We also have to consider the difference that animation canceling makes. I'm not very good at animation canceling, having really only learned to do one type of it. So my DPS is obviously lower even when I'm using an "ideal" rotation.

Honestly, 10-15K DPS is good DPS, if you don't animation cancel. Consider that when you talk about new players having low DPS.

I'll be completely honest here. My best self-buffed DPS parse on a 3 mil Dummy is 16.5K DPS on my Stamina Sorc. I've got a good rotation and I've got good uptime on everything I should have going...but I can't animation cancel outside of weaving heavy attacks.

I'm not looking for suggestions or how to improve. That answer's pretty obvious - learn to animation cancel. Except that animation canceling isn't explained anywhere in the game, so while I could go to outside sources and learn and figure it out, that's not something that you can expect out of new players.

You said, "A PetSorc using WoE, LL, pet and heavy attack will hit 20K. Easily."

Uh. Nope. Not without animation cancelling and/or a Maelstrom Staff. I'm running a MagSorc through VMA for the first time to get my staff. Again, I can't animation cancel, and no, I don't get 20K easily with the rotation you describe. More like 12-13K with an optimal rotation.

Again, I'm not looking for suggestions or criticism. The solution is obvious - L2animationcancel. I'm just pointing out, again, the big difference that animation canceling makes to DPS. Unfortunately, animation canceling is necessary for getting those high numbers that have become necessary for certain levels of content. I don't even dislike animation canceling as a concept or how its used in the game, I just dislike pretending that gear+rotation will let you hit high DPS numbers without animation canceling. That has not been my experience at all.

I'll agree with the OP that 20K DPS is a fair number for good DPS. However, its worth pointing out that reaching 20K requires at least some level of animation canceling for most players. Perhaps trials gear lets you reach that without animation canceling. I wouldn't know, because I can't get to trials-level DPS without animation canceling to do the trials myself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_tYqTGfqjg

The dare, here, was reaching 30k with full purple gear, purple glyphs, no master/maelstrom/asylum staff, no nirnhoned trait, and capped at 300CP. I only managed 25k, but my connection is rubbish, and I'm playing on a laptop.

I don't have a link to the video, but a friend of mine actually broke 29k respecting the same requisites.

As for animation cancel, I'm not even sure if you can call weaving "animation canceling", but, yeah, sure, I'll give you that.

Light attacks accounted for 3k dps, so without weaving that would be somewhere around 21k, I think, considering a bit of loss from enchant procs as well...

Hope this helps.
Have a nice day.

Asardes · February 2018

MrGarlic wrote: »

Imza wrote: »

Weaving light attacks on the back bar is at most 10% of your DPS, but it's also more difficult. For example I always get stuck in caltrops and miss a weave there. Without weaving at least 2-3 heavy attacks on the front is pretty hard to sustain any kind of rotation on a stamina character, and it's pretty easy to pull since you have a ~400ms window to press that skill button while you charge the heavy attack; light attack window is probably ~100-150 ms. On stamina sorcerer you even have a bonus to heavy attacks from your Bound Armaments so there's no reason to not weave them.

^^ is BS @Asardes

Now add 250 ping EACH WAY

I have the Alcast Summoner build and I am unable to hit 20k DPS

I am unable to weave or animation cancel successfully every time - sometimes it works - sometimes it doesn't...

Ping is the enemy of DPS

.

Yep, third world quality, high ping and rural internet will HALVE (or more) your DPS.

It's a factor most people in this thread don't understand.

Having to press skill keys more than once to get it to fire or having to slow down LA weaving to get it to work is not helpful at all.

And people who say L2P or GitGud in response to ping-related DPS are frankly, patronising, condescending and ignorant.

The further you are from the server, the lower your DPS will be. This is a fact.

It will not halve, but cut 10-15% of it. My game lags sometimes, not from connection or client side, but sever side. And that's about what I lose. that's basically back-bar LA weaving and maybe a HA stuck in animation. Not more. If you only pull 40-50% of what someone else is pulling with the exact gear, rotation, CP distribution, you're 80% of the problem, not the Internet. See one of the posters here playing from Australia with almost 400 ping and still managing 30K+

Septimus_Magna · February 2018

greylox wrote: »

You said, "A PetSorc using WoE, LL, pet and heavy attack will hit 20K. Easily."

Uh. Nope. Not without animation cancelling and/or a Maelstrom Staff. I'm running a MagSorc through VMA for the first time to get my staff. Again, I can't animation cancel, and no, I don't get 20K easily with the rotation you describe. More like 12-13K with an optimal rotation

I have an Argonian pet sorc wearing 4 mad tinkerer, 5 necro and Maw of the Infernal x2. I use WoE, Lightning Flood, Familiar and Matriarch, Daedric prey, Empowered ward, Bound armour...... have divine and infused, some gold some purple gear. Full cp. Without any animation cancelling and making sure all damage skills are always active on the dummy and only using heavy attacks in between i get 18k ish dps without any extra help, with major sorcery etc it can easily go above that. Just saying as an example, I'm by no means a great player.

Im running similar gear (purple) gear with gold staves and get 30k self buffed on a target dummy. There's a lot of dps to be gained by perfecting a roation, weaving/animation canceling helps but wont increase dps more than 3k or so.

Bar 1 (shock): Liquid, Wall, Familiar, Hardened Ward, Inner Light - Elemental Rage
Bar 2 (shock): Cfrags, Force Pulse, Curse, Mages Wrath/Power Surge, Familiar - Shooting Star
(in 4 man dungeons I prefer Power Surge because it helps with healing and saves spell power pots)

The rotation: Liquid, LA, Wall, LA, Familiar, barswap, Prey, LA, cfrags if procced/if not Force Pulse, LA+cfrags if procced/if not barswap, HA - restart (drop Elemental Rage after Wall when its up)

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · February 2018

I pull 6.2k self buffed with gold gear, vma etc. If wants tips ask and I'll help you out

Aisle9 · February 2018

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I pull 6.2k self buffed with gold gear, vma etc. If wants tips ask and I'll help you out

6.2k ?

Do you even use skills ? xD

Ermiq · February 2018

Watching all these "you should manage X DPS easily" I'm always asking myself: "What they're talking about? Is this for 160CP or 690CP? Do they use blue or purple food? Do they use potions? What gear they have, blue, purple, gold? Do they have all BiS traits on their gear or maybe some gear is with not the best trait? Do they use anim cancel? How muck ping they have, 20-40 or 300-900 like me? Do they use such buffs/debuffs like EleDrain (which supposed to be healer's job in a group) when they measuring their solo DPS on a dummy without a healer?"
Too many questions I have. If I have so many questions when I read such posts then I consider those posts absolutely useless for anybody.

VilniusNastavnik · February 2018

- PTS (Bit less laggy) Skills were sticking, Weapon holstering itself often. Imperfect run. CP points not balanced.
- 360 ping
- No VMA weapons
- 5x Necropotence, 4x moondancer, 2x Maw
- No weaving.
- Fire backbar, Lightning front bar. Didn't have a second lightning MD for the back bar for concussion/off balance up time.
- It can be done without weaving. Just don't expect top tier results.

Ep1kMalware · February 2018

Eremith wrote: »

Watching all these "you should manage X DPS easily" I'm always asking myself: "What they're talking about? Is this for 160CP or 690CP? Do they use blue or purple food? Do they use potions? What gear they have, blue, purple, gold? Do they have all BiS traits on their gear or maybe some gear is with not the best trait? Do they use anim cancel? How muck ping they have, 20-40 or 300-900 like me? Do they use such buffs/debuffs like EleDrain (which supposed to be healer's job in a group) when they measuring their solo DPS on a dummy without a healer?"
Too many questions I have. If I have so many questions when I read such posts then I consider those posts absolutely useless for anybody.

I would co soder 15k dps easilly obtained by any charachter level with white gear and no real rotation. All you have to do is not spam 1 skill anf you pretty much got it.

Eyesinthedrk · February 2018

When you get right down to it, every dummy parse is a cheese since the sharpened nerf.

In a raid with puncture, crushing enchant, alkosh and power of the light, i run a totally different cp and Mundus than when I have to reach pen cap with only eledrain. So does everyone else who’s doing 40k on a target dummy

Milvan · February 2018

Just lock this thread already.

People will never agree on this because the game appeals to both casuals and hardcores.

Casuals will always rant about high dps and how it's need to complete some content (even tho only like very few content requires more than 30k+ dps to be completed).

jakeedmundson · February 2018

.

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

That 50-60k number you hear from some people is complete BS.

absolute 100% top tier SUSTAINABLE dps on a dummy is around 40k (give or take a few thousand, maybe up to 45k)

The people that can hit 50k+ on the dummy are using cheat setups to fabricate dummy parses. which, yeah its awesome to see those numbers but... they don't do any vet trials with those builds. Not saying they can't HIT those numbers IN a trial. Just that they don't spec the same way when they do trials.

Plain and simple numbers, if you're at or above 25k dps... you can do pretty much everything in the game (some obvious exceptions like vMOL or vHOF)

Sorry, but there's some 4man groups pulling 170k DPS, this means that each DPSER is over 80k. Most bosses have adds and if you have correct positioning, your tank is debuffing, your healer is good and supporting your damage you can get crazy numbers.
The thing i mean is, you say they can't HIT those numbers IN a trial, when depending on the boss they can get much higher. (on others with heavy mechanics less)
I would say it's not only about 25k DPS. It's about your ability of not dying, and mantaining this DPS through mechanics, and/or taking advantage of the mechanics to reach higher DPSers.

Thats not at all what i said... literally the opposite.

I said they CAN hit those numbers in a trial... " Not saying they can't HIT those numbers IN a trial"

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

All i meant by the "cheese" builds is that they use things like the lover mundus and/or stack penetration and like you said, spam certain skills like execute. I.E. things they never actually do in a trial. Its just to put up high numbers on the dummy.

Of course those same people that can hit 50k on a dummy can do well in trials, i'm not saying they can't do it.
The point of my post was to tell people to ignore those numbers. Look for a realistic number (like you said, 35k) to consider your build successful with end game worthy dps.

Messy1 · February 2018

Nihility42 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

We also have to consider the difference that animation canceling makes. I'm not very good at animation canceling, having really only learned to do one type of it. So my DPS is obviously lower even when I'm using an "ideal" rotation.

Honestly, 10-15K DPS is good DPS, if you don't animation cancel. Consider that when you talk about new players having low DPS.

I'll be completely honest here. My best self-buffed DPS parse on a 3 mil Dummy is 16.5K DPS on my Stamina Sorc. I've got a good rotation and I've got good uptime on everything I should have going...but I can't animation cancel outside of weaving heavy attacks.

I'm not looking for suggestions or how to improve. That answer's pretty obvious - learn to animation cancel. Except that animation canceling isn't explained anywhere in the game, so while I could go to outside sources and learn and figure it out, that's not something that you can expect out of new players.

You said, "A PetSorc using WoE, LL, pet and heavy attack will hit 20K. Easily."

Uh. Nope. Not without animation cancelling and/or a Maelstrom Staff. I'm running a MagSorc through VMA for the first time to get my staff. Again, I can't animation cancel, and no, I don't get 20K easily with the rotation you describe. More like 12-13K with an optimal rotation.

Again, I'm not looking for suggestions or criticism. The solution is obvious - L2animationcancel. I'm just pointing out, again, the big difference that animation canceling makes to DPS. Unfortunately, animation canceling is necessary for getting those high numbers that have become necessary for certain levels of content. I don't even dislike animation canceling as a concept or how its used in the game, I just dislike pretending that gear+rotation will let you hit high DPS numbers without animation canceling. That has not been my experience at all.

I'll agree with the OP that 20K DPS is a fair number for good DPS. However, its worth pointing out that reaching 20K requires at least some level of animation canceling for most players. Perhaps trials gear lets you reach that without animation canceling. I wouldn't know, because I can't get to trials-level DPS without animation canceling to do the trials myself.

Honestly, I'm not sure why people treat animation cancelling likes it's particularly hard or even something that takes much learning. Just fire your skills off quickly one after another, click in between, and boom you are cancelling. It's not like there is some 1ms window you have to hit for it to work. And especially with the HA meta we have, cancelling heavy attacks is incredibly easy, just start charging it then hit your skill button without releasing the attack button. Done. Want to cancel a skill with block or weapon swap? Hit the skill, then hit the block or the swap. It's really pretty intuitive.

I can animation cancel with the best of them, but it's not fun and is a BS way to increase your DPS that makes everyone neurotic and annoying in the end.

One of my guild leaders said they learned to animation cancel using a metronome to help them parse . . . Wow what a joke

jakeedmundson · February 2018

VilniusNastavnik wrote: »

- PTS (Bit less laggy) Skills were sticking, Weapon holstering itself often. Imperfect run. CP points not balanced.
- 360 ping
- No VMA weapons
- 5x Necropotence, 4x moondancer, 2x Maw
- No weaving.
- Fire backbar, Lightning front bar. Didn't have a second lightning MD for the back bar for concussion/off balance up time.
- It can be done without weaving. Just don't expect top tier results.

That's kinda fun...is the atro ulti going to be viable for single target? That's a pretty good parse for that ulti. 3630?

Messy1 · February 2018

jakeedmundson wrote: »

.

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

That 50-60k number you hear from some people is complete BS.

absolute 100% top tier SUSTAINABLE dps on a dummy is around 40k (give or take a few thousand, maybe up to 45k)

The people that can hit 50k+ on the dummy are using cheat setups to fabricate dummy parses. which, yeah its awesome to see those numbers but... they don't do any vet trials with those builds. Not saying they can't HIT those numbers IN a trial. Just that they don't spec the same way when they do trials.

Plain and simple numbers, if you're at or above 25k dps... you can do pretty much everything in the game (some obvious exceptions like vMOL or vHOF)

Sorry, but there's some 4man groups pulling 170k DPS, this means that each DPSER is over 80k. Most bosses have adds and if you have correct positioning, your tank is debuffing, your healer is good and supporting your damage you can get crazy numbers.
The thing i mean is, you say they can't HIT those numbers IN a trial, when depending on the boss they can get much higher. (on others with heavy mechanics less)
I would say it's not only about 25k DPS. It's about your ability of not dying, and mantaining this DPS through mechanics, and/or taking advantage of the mechanics to reach higher DPSers.

Thats not at all what i said... literally the opposite.

I said they CAN hit those numbers in a trial... " Not saying they can't HIT those numbers IN a trial"

@Oreyn_Bearclaw

All i meant by the "cheese" builds is that they use things like the lover mundus and/or stack penetration and like you said, spam certain skills like execute. I.E. things they never actually do in a trial. Its just to put up high numbers on the dummy.

Of course those same people that can hit 50k on a dummy can do well in trials, i'm not saying they can't do it.
The point of my post was to tell people to ignore those numbers. Look for a realistic number (like you said, 35k) to consider your build successful with end game worthy dps.

I kinda blame Alcast for posting "Parse builds" I mean who cares about the dummy parses?

kylewwefan · February 2018

Here’s some of the guidelines for better damage.

1.) buff up
2.) debuff the enemy
3.) apply Damage over time skills
4.) Attack and “Spammable “
5.) repeat

Templar and Sorc don’t have a built in major debuff, so some help may very well be required.

Usually someone else provides magic users with Elemental Drain debuff and many times Worm.

“Spammable “ skills range from heavy attacks, to force pulse, shrouded daggers or specific class abilities.

Skills that buff usually last about 20 seconds or so and need to be re-applied. Potions that buff last up to 45 seconds with alchemy passives, so anyone concerned with this should level up their alchemy.

Don’t use a Damage over time ability as a Spammable. By re casting them too soon your spending resources and not achieving the value of their potential. This will really hurt you with a skill that also does execute damage. Like Poison Inject

Builds that rely on CP will be ineffective until a certain CP level is achieved. ie PetSorc likely need 450CP to start getting good.

If testing on dummy, everyone usually starts with an ultimate while they’re buffed up and the dummy is fully debuffed. Ultimate usage is majorly important for all builds and yes it can be somewhat cheesed.

Mages Light can empower the ultimate an additional %20 and you may never use the skill again in your rotation.

Animation cancelling is not required for decent damage.

Make2k15 · February 2018

MrGarlic wrote: »

Imza wrote: »

Weaving light attacks on the back bar is at most 10% of your DPS, but it's also more difficult. For example I always get stuck in caltrops and miss a weave there. Without weaving at least 2-3 heavy attacks on the front is pretty hard to sustain any kind of rotation on a stamina character, and it's pretty easy to pull since you have a ~400ms window to press that skill button while you charge the heavy attack; light attack window is probably ~100-150 ms. On stamina sorcerer you even have a bonus to heavy attacks from your Bound Armaments so there's no reason to not weave them.

^^ is BS @Asardes

Now add 250 ping EACH WAY

I have the Alcast Summoner build and I am unable to hit 20k DPS

I am unable to weave or animation cancel successfully every time - sometimes it works - sometimes it doesn't...

Ping is the enemy of DPS

.

Yep, third world quality, high ping and rural internet will HALVE (or more) your DPS.

It's a factor most people in this thread don't understand.

Having to press skill keys more than once to get it to fire or having to slow down LA weaving to get it to work is not helpful at all.

And people who say L2P or GitGud in response to ping-related DPS are frankly, patronising, condescending and ignorant.

The further you are from the server, the lower your DPS will be. This is a fact.

Well, this is kinda true, but a bit of testing what I've done at PTS with higher ping (200+ ping) I've come to realize that while this is kinda true it's not exactly for the reasons you'd at first think it is. You can actually do pretty much about the same DPS regardless if the ping is below 100 or more than 200+. In practise if you've learned to do 35k dps with below 100 ping then you can do that 35k dps also with 200 ping. However, this is after you have learned and trained your muscle memory for how it can be done with that lower below 100 ping. So to sum it up the lower ping is needed to learn and maintain how to do the rotation (weaving/animation cancels in specific) after you have learned that you can do the same with higher ping as well.

As for the back bar light attack weaving in my experience it will do about 5k dps max. if you weave every skill. Note also that if you don't weave at back bar and you have weapon/spell damage enchantment in use then you also need to take into account that your back bar weapon glyph doesn't proc at all which can cause significant lose in dps as well.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · February 2018

Aisle9 wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

I pull 6.2k self buffed with gold gear, vma etc. If wants tips ask and I'll help you out

6.2k ?

Do you even use skills ? xD

Who needs skills when you got these fists

Destruent · February 2018

Make2k15 wrote: »

As for the back bar light attack weaving in my experience it will do about 5k dps max. if you weave every skill. But if you don't weave at back bar then you also need to take into account that your back bar weapon glyph doesn't proc at all which can cause about 2k lose in dps as well (e.g. status effects + direct dmg from the glyph etc.). E.g. if you have infused fiery glyph on back bar it can proc twice per rotation (3 or more skill casts on back bar) if you weave back bar properly.

That's just blatantly wrong. Weapon glyphs (exception: weapon/spelldmg-glyphs) can procc from weapon skills and light/heavy-attacks. so aslong as your wall of elements/endless hail is ticking (which should 24/7 for dds), your glyphs will procc just fine on cooldown.