What is Good DPS?

kylewwefan

We see this question asked all the time and ranges from 30k as an average to 50k or 60k elite.

While there are definitely some that need work, like doing 10k or less, you don’t really ever see a fair number that can be reached by most players.

10k is bad, because a properly geared out setup elite will hit that easily with heavy attacks alone. Seriously.

Shoot for 20K by your lonesome self.

A PetSorc using WoE, LL, pet and heavy attack will hit 20K. Easily.

A stam build using Endless,Trap, Poison Inject, Heavy Attack and whatever spammable will hit 20K or right close to it.

People that ask these questions are typically not elite, BiS gear max CP. you need to do just enough damage to complete content. Add survival and sustain a drawn out fight.

let’s talk about the blue tree in CP. i have no math to back me up, but if you add up penetration that you know will always be there, this gives you your biggest gain by far. You want to hit your target with everything you do like they’re naked.

It severely gimps your damage if you’re not reaching decent penetration levels. Especially magic users rocking a whopping 2000 spell damage.

BiS mundus for pug, solo and scrub should be the lover by far. And sharpened is likely still your best weapon trait to get good results.

I find myself doing less damage screwing around trying to keep up some complex rotation that I suck at then keeping it simple.

Use your ultimates. Many pugs I run never use their ultimates. They’re holding onto it waiting for the right time....the time never comes. Use your ultimates, they build back quick and add so much to your total damage it makes no sense to sit on them. Even dropping them on just the trash mobs.


Here’s some of the guidelines for better damage.

1.) buff up
2.) debuff the enemy
3.) apply Damage over time skills
4.) Attack and “Spammable “
5.) repeat

Templar and Sorc don’t have a built in major debuff, so some help may very well be required.

Usually someone else provides magic users with Elemental Drain debuff and many times Worm.

“Spammable “ skills range from heavy attacks, to force pulse, shrouded daggers or specific class abilities.

Skills that buff usually last about 20 seconds or so and need to be re-applied. Potions that buff last up to 45 seconds with alchemy passives, so anyone concerned with this should level up their alchemy.

Don’t use a Damage over time ability as a Spammable. By re casting them too soon your spending resources and not achieving the value of their potential. This will really hurt you with a skill that also does execute damage. Like Poison Inject

Builds that rely on CP will be ineffective until a certain CP level is achieved. ie PetSorc likely need 450CP to start getting good.

If testing on dummy, everyone usually starts with an ultimate while they’re buffed up and the dummy is fully debuffed. Ultimate usage is majorly important for all builds and yes it can be somewhat cheesed.

Mages Light can empower the ultimate an additional %20 and you may never use the skill again in your rotation.

Animation cancelling is not required for decent damage.

Narvuntien

25K solo buffed on a dummy.. is.. good enough for most things.

Particularly if you have space on your bars for defensive things you'll need in trails and vet DLC dungeons.

jakeedmundson

That 50-60k number you hear from some people is complete BS.

absolute 100% top tier SUSTAINABLE dps on a dummy is around 40k (give or take a few thousand, maybe up to 45k)

The people that can hit 50k+ on the dummy are using cheat setups to fabricate dummy parses. which, yeah its awesome to see those numbers but... they don't do any vet trials with those builds. Not saying they can't HIT those numbers IN a trial. Just that they don't spec the same way when they do trials.

Plain and simple numbers, if you're at or above 25k dps... you can do pretty much everything in the game (some obvious exceptions like vMOL or vHOF)

Elsonso

Mobs die before you do. Plenty of DPS.

getemshauna

In 90% cases dps depends on raid buffs, so if we talk about target dummy 6m selfbuffed parse, dancing around 40-42k is top dps (without cheese). Sure thing is not every class has possibilities to reach that number, magden or magplar probably can't, magdk due to sustain issues, not lacking damage. 35k is enough to easily complete every hard mode content in the game.

Anotherone773

The reason this elitist do 30k plus DPS or L2p annoys me is:

* Applying X DPS to a target dummy with no lag standing still is pretty easy. But in a dungeon or raid situation its not practical because how much dps one can apply depends heavily on their situation. On one boss last night i was constantly having to dodge,block, and pick off adds over a large area because they were making the healers( high cp) life difficult. So i was doing mostly light attackswith a few abilities while running around. It also depends on how good your tank and healer are. Can this healer heal me through light AOE damage or do i have to move every 5 seconds? Can the tank keep aggro? I cant keep a good rotation going and dps suffers when i have to deal with all the BS that goes on in boss fights. That kind of makes target dummy dps irrelevant.

* Then you have the server issues. I typically have 50-80 fps in most fights in dungeons and 100-150 ms ping. But in instances there are some pretty bad sync issues and bugs( which i am quite vocal about here on the forums). That murders dps. I have attacks auto firing, abilities that are used to late or not at all. I cant even get dodge or break free to work all the time in a timely manner. This leads to frustration spamming of abilities/attacks after a while wanting it to just do something useful.

I dont really see a lot of ultimate use in dungeons though. I try to use mine at least once on every boss, letting trash build it up to max. The right ultimates do make a big difference in dps when it comes to boss fights.

I also do a rotation that works for me, when i can, as i think the situation calls for it. Same with heavy and light attacks. It depends on how i feel about the situation. I keep it simple rather than complex. There is no need to turn what is suppose to be a fun and relaxing time into something as complex as String Theory

JinMori

On a boss, 60 k is doable, the max dps you can get is around that.

VaranisArano

We also have to consider the difference that animation canceling makes. I'm not very good at animation canceling, having really only learned to do one type of it. So my DPS is obviously lower even when I'm using an "ideal" rotation.

Honestly, 10-15K DPS is good DPS, if you don't animation cancel. Consider that when you talk about new players having low DPS.

I'll be completely honest here. My best self-buffed DPS parse on a 3 mil Dummy is 16.5K DPS on my Stamina Sorc. I've got a good rotation and I've got good uptime on everything I should have going...but I can't animation cancel outside of weaving heavy attacks.

I'm not looking for suggestions or how to improve. That answer's pretty obvious - learn to animation cancel. Except that animation canceling isn't explained anywhere in the game, so while I could go to outside sources and learn and figure it out, that's not something that you can expect out of new players.

You said, "A PetSorc using WoE, LL, pet and heavy attack will hit 20K. Easily."

Uh. Nope. Not without animation cancelling and/or a Maelstrom Staff. I'm running a MagSorc through VMA for the first time to get my staff. Again, I can't animation cancel, and no, I don't get 20K easily with the rotation you describe. More like 12-13K with an optimal rotation.

Again, I'm not looking for suggestions or criticism. The solution is obvious - L2animationcancel. I'm just pointing out, again, the big difference that animation canceling makes to DPS. Unfortunately, animation canceling is necessary for getting those high numbers that have become necessary for certain levels of content. I don't even dislike animation canceling as a concept or how its used in the game, I just dislike pretending that gear+rotation will let you hit high DPS numbers without animation canceling. That has not been my experience at all.

I'll agree with the OP that 20K DPS is a fair number for good DPS. However, its worth pointing out that reaching 20K requires at least some level of animation canceling for most players. Perhaps trials gear lets you reach that without animation canceling. I wouldn't know, because I can't get to trials-level DPS without animation canceling to do the trials myself.

kongkim

This is what is wrong with the game.

If you don't use 90% the same skills and sets as everybody else you will never be able to do end content in this game.

I always play a little out of the box as I find the most fun thing to do, is trying out new builds. And that is almost not possible in this game unless you do as 90% of all the other people in the game.

For me, the most fun I have played yet is a hybrid build using both stamina and magic. But that is not a viable option if I ever want to do any other thing then normal dungeons.

The game and its options are really open at that start of the game and when you level. But later on, the options become very little.

And what I say here ofc. all depends on what people see and good DPS. But whatever people say here. If you are not one of the 90% of people you will get kicked or smacked talked all the time ingame.

Princess_Ciri

40k on a 3mil dummy is what i would consider the standard for good, and then anything above 35k on a 6mil.

as for trial bosses it's hard to generalise since mechanics can mean 30k is amazing or 50k is meh it just depends on the trial and boss

Uviryth

For normal people, I´d say shoot for 15-20k. That pretty much the most you can reach with not too much bug/glitchabuse.
If you do 30k you can start fondling yourself after the parse, cause you mastered the "feature" animationcanceling.

DeadlyRecluse

I agree that most people should, with a relatively casual gearing and rotation, be able to hit 20k.

10k is honestly sufficient for almost all nonDLC dungeons, though, if you actually play mechanics.

greylox

I hit around 18-20k without a drain or major sorcery on my pet sorc argonian, I do a bit of animation cancelling and keep a rough rotation going but its so boring trying to be a robot.

My survivability is second to none tho and am always ressing leet dps'ers in dungeons that are basically glass cannons.

Swings and roundabouts

Peekachu99

Over 20K or you shouldn’t be doing DLC dungeons—you’re just a liability and a decent tank will be doing almost as much (dots, snares, etc.).

kylewwefan

On console, we don’t have a clue what kind of damage you’re doing other than the target skeleton. I have worked with so many people that have never even used one before. First thing they do is start dancing around like waiting for the thing to hit back. Then button mashing like they do in a real boss fight.

lordrichter wrote: »

Mobs die before you do. Plenty of DPS.

Things die before they do so everything is alright. Right? Not so much. There’s bosses that heal up if your not having enough damage to take care of things. Rilis, Dosha, some others. Every boss in Dragonstar enrages if it’s taking too long. Skoria has a bit of a limit. There’s more etc...

I’ve been in too many dungeons where the DD’s are literally doing 7k or so and this is just not acceptable.

Most people that have never seen a target skeleton are in the 10k ~12k DPS Mark after settling down and trying to work on things. I’ve helpped many a players get up to 20k just by changing a few CP around and getting them a different mundus.

I realize this isn’t stellar numbers, but at that point they will know it’s not them causing big problems in veteran content. It’s time consuming AF trying to help people get better, but the community will be better off for it.

JinMori wrote: »

On a boss, 60 k is doable, the max dps you can get is around that.

This isn’t helping the players legitimately hitting less than 10k. They need simple rotation and easily obtainable gear, and a small idea of what to do with their CP and which mundus would be good for them. Maybe some nice purple weapon damage glyph and proper food.

Nihility42

VaranisArano wrote: »

We also have to consider the difference that animation canceling makes. I'm not very good at animation canceling, having really only learned to do one type of it. So my DPS is obviously lower even when I'm using an "ideal" rotation.

Honestly, 10-15K DPS is good DPS, if you don't animation cancel. Consider that when you talk about new players having low DPS.

I'll be completely honest here. My best self-buffed DPS parse on a 3 mil Dummy is 16.5K DPS on my Stamina Sorc. I've got a good rotation and I've got good uptime on everything I should have going...but I can't animation cancel outside of weaving heavy attacks.

I'm not looking for suggestions or how to improve. That answer's pretty obvious - learn to animation cancel. Except that animation canceling isn't explained anywhere in the game, so while I could go to outside sources and learn and figure it out, that's not something that you can expect out of new players.

You said, "A PetSorc using WoE, LL, pet and heavy attack will hit 20K. Easily."

Uh. Nope. Not without animation cancelling and/or a Maelstrom Staff. I'm running a MagSorc through VMA for the first time to get my staff. Again, I can't animation cancel, and no, I don't get 20K easily with the rotation you describe. More like 12-13K with an optimal rotation.

Again, I'm not looking for suggestions or criticism. The solution is obvious - L2animationcancel. I'm just pointing out, again, the big difference that animation canceling makes to DPS. Unfortunately, animation canceling is necessary for getting those high numbers that have become necessary for certain levels of content. I don't even dislike animation canceling as a concept or how its used in the game, I just dislike pretending that gear+rotation will let you hit high DPS numbers without animation canceling. That has not been my experience at all.

I'll agree with the OP that 20K DPS is a fair number for good DPS. However, its worth pointing out that reaching 20K requires at least some level of animation canceling for most players. Perhaps trials gear lets you reach that without animation canceling. I wouldn't know, because I can't get to trials-level DPS without animation canceling to do the trials myself.

Honestly, I'm not sure why people treat animation cancelling likes it's particularly hard or even something that takes much learning. Just fire your skills off quickly one after another, click in between, and boom you are cancelling. It's not like there is some 1ms window you have to hit for it to work. And especially with the HA meta we have, cancelling heavy attacks is incredibly easy, just start charging it then hit your skill button without releasing the attack button. Done. Want to cancel a skill with block or weapon swap? Hit the skill, then hit the block or the swap. It's really pretty intuitive.

Asardes

30K+ self buffed on the 6M dummy, with your exact trial specs (mundus, consumable, gear, CP distribution) which is achievable by every class, though some may struggle to reach that: Magicka Warden now & also Magicka DK next patch. Note that the highest parsing solo class is Stamina NB, since it has Major Fracture and Minor Berserk in its ability kit, but the others will be about at the same level in groups where those bonuses will be available for everyone from tank (Pierce Armor) and healer (Combat Prayer) respectively. 30K solo is usually closer to 37-40K with group buffs and debuffs, so you'll have no problem clearing any content if you can also manage the mechanics while pulling that rotation.

craftycarper73

just remeber a dummy doesnt hit back, you dont have to dodge roll or block attacks and it doesnt de buff you.

test dummys are in other words BS and a fancy housing item so the elites can stroke there coc......s in public.

jakeedmundson

craftycarper73 wrote: »

just remeber a dummy doesnt hit back, you dont have to dodge roll or block attacks and it doesnt de buff you.

test dummys are in other words BS and a fancy housing item so the elites can stroke there coc......s in public.

Not exactly... i'm guessing your dps is lower than average and you're bitter about it?

If you practice your rotation on a dummy, it provides the muscle memory necessary to pick up on your rotation when you have to break away for mechanics - like roll dodging, blocking, etc... Also, there's a reason you get ZERO help with buffs and synergies during a test (except elemental drain or pierce armor)
The idea behind the no buffs/synergies concept is if you can effectively sustain with high dps on the dummy... the synergies and other buffs you receive in an actual trial will help cover the roll dodge/block costs.

TLDR - dps dummies are important to teach you a solid rotation

Septimus_Magna

30k dps self buffed is good in my opinion as long as you dont have to sacrafice too much survivability to reach it.

Some builds pull very good numbers but run 16k health, one mistake from either the tank, healer or player means they need a res which decreases the group dmg output by factor two.

I feel like quite a few players go full glass canon without having the experience to stay alive.

Nihility42

craftycarper73 wrote: »

just remeber a dummy doesnt hit back, you dont have to dodge roll or block attacks and it doesnt de buff you.

test dummys are in other words BS and a fancy housing item so the elites can stroke there coc......s in public.

It gives a standardized idea what sort of damage you can output. If you can only parse 15k on a dummy, it's a pretty safe assumption that you won't pull much more in an actual dungeon or trial situation. Yeah, someone might pull 30k on a dummy and be useless in a dungeon, but someone who can't even do a static rotation on a dummy well won't magically be better in actual content.

Asardes

VaranisArano wrote: »

We also have to consider the difference that animation canceling makes. I'm not very good at animation canceling, having really only learned to do one type of it. So my DPS is obviously lower even when I'm using an "ideal" rotation.

Honestly, 10-15K DPS is good DPS, if you don't animation cancel. Consider that when you talk about new players having low DPS.

I'll be completely honest here. My best self-buffed DPS parse on a 3 mil Dummy is 16.5K DPS on my Stamina Sorc. I've got a good rotation and I've got good uptime on everything I should have going...but I can't animation cancel outside of weaving heavy attacks.

Weaving light attacks on the back bar is at most 10% of your DPS, but it's also more difficult. For example I always get stuck in caltrops and miss a weave there. Without weaving at least 2-3 heavy attacks on the front is pretty hard to sustain any kind of rotation on a stamina character, and it's pretty easy to pull since you have a ~400ms window to press that skill button while you charge the heavy attack; light attack window is probably ~100-150 ms. On stamina sorcerer you even have a bonus to heavy attacks from your Bound Armaments so there's no reason to not weave them.

josiahva

I consider acceptable DPS what I can achieve with a simple gear and skill swap with my tank...20k DPS. This is not great DPS by any means, but the lowest acceptable DPS when doing vet content and you are queued as DPS, after all if I can do that with a tank using DPS gear without changing CP, a real DPS has no excuse to be lower.

kongkim

All you DPS elite people. here. Would you kick me for running a build like this.

http://www.eso-skillfactory.com/en/share/23251/
x2 Slimecraw
x5 Medusa
x5 Mechanical Acuity

I have around 470 CP.

I do not like to make builds that 90% of all others use. But I like to be able to do some content later on and not just put the game away.

RABIDxWOLVERINE

With StamDK on 3mil Dummy I can hit 30k self buffed almost everytime. Sometimes a little higher sometimes a little lower. I'm still perfecting my rotation and I'm not the best at animation canceling but its pretty easily achieved if you put in the time to perfect a simple rotation. I basically use 4 skills on both bars and have a buff I do every other weapon swap and then I have vigor for instances where I need some extra heals.

Mister_DMC

I often find the people that say dummy's are worthless and I play a rotation that fits my playstyle to be the funniest. When actually sit down and do a full 3m dummy Parse the outcome is usually abysmal. Then you take a look at their gear, enchants, bar setups, Mundus stones etc and start to sort through it. I explain to them what works and why and low and behold their DPS magically doubles.

While it won't be anything considering top tier DPS it's usually more than enough to hear them elated by the new found success and they finally feel less frustrated because they understand some things about the game that are unclear or hidden. Zos does a bad job of explaining how things work and without the help of a long time player with a firm grasp on combat mechanics, You are incredibly unlikely to figure it out on your own. Now Zos is taking steps to correct that in the upcoming patch.

On the topic of target dummy's I will firmly say that each has its purpose. The 3m dummy is for practicing your rotation, that is all. The 6mil dummy is for practicing your rotation and sustain over a longer fight. The 52 mil dummy is the most accurate. The only test that really matters is what your group is capable of hitting on that 52 mil dummy. This test represents your ability to complete your rotation with a ton of visual trash and accompanying lag that will be present in a trial environment. If you do poorly in this test, you won't do any better in an actual trial.

To agree with Kyle at the beginning, 25k is good for all vet content except the dlc vet trials or possibly vaa HM. 35k in a trials gear setup is very good and will translate to 45-55k depending on class in a group test. That is considered a heavy hitter and welcome addition to just about any trials team.

Nihility42

kongkim wrote: »

All you DPS elite people. here. Would you kick me for running a build like this.

http://www.eso-skillfactory.com/en/share/23251/
x2 Slimecraw
x5 Medusa
x5 Mechanical Acuity

I have around 470 CP.

I do not like to make builds that 90% of all others use. But I like to be able to do some content later on and not just put the game away.

The build isn't important, per se, it's what you do with it. What sort of parses do you hit?

kylewwefan

VaranisArano wrote: »

We also have to consider the difference that animation canceling makes. I'm not very good at animation canceling, having really only learned to do one type of it. So my DPS is obviously lower even when I'm using an "ideal" rotation.

Honestly, 10-15K DPS is good DPS, if you don't animation cancel. Consider that when you talk about new players having low DPS.

I'll be completely honest here. My best self-buffed DPS parse on a 3 mil Dummy is 16.5K DPS on my Stamina Sorc. I've got a good rotation and I've got good uptime on everything I should have going...but I can't animation cancel outside of weaving heavy attacks.

I'm not looking for suggestions or how to improve. That answer's pretty obvious - learn to animation cancel. Except that animation canceling isn't explained anywhere in the game, so while I could go to outside sources and learn and figure it out, that's not something that you can expect out of new players.

You said, "A PetSorc using WoE, LL, pet and heavy attack will hit 20K. Easily."

Uh. Nope. Not without animation cancelling and/or a Maelstrom Staff. I'm running a MagSorc through VMA for the first time to get my staff. Again, I can't animation cancel, and no, I don't get 20K easily with the rotation you describe. More like 12-13K with an optimal rotation.

Again, I'm not looking for suggestions or criticism. The solution is obvious - L2animationcancel. I'm just pointing out, again, the big difference that animation canceling makes to DPS. Unfortunately, animation canceling is necessary for getting those high numbers that have become necessary for certain levels of content. I don't even dislike animation canceling as a concept or how its used in the game, I just dislike pretending that gear+rotation will let you hit high DPS numbers without animation canceling. That has not been my experience at all.

I'll agree with the OP that 20K DPS is a fair number for good DPS. However, its worth pointing out that reaching 20K requires at least some level of animation canceling for most players. Perhaps trials gear lets you reach that without animation canceling. I wouldn't know, because I can't get to trials-level DPS without animation canceling to do the trials myself.

You don’t need to animation cancel. You need Ele Drain, the lover mundus, blue food better CP placement to reach penetration and likely still sharpened weapons if you don’t have enough CP. assuming you have proper pet Sorc gear and legendary gold weapons. Even a plain gold sharp lightning staff and willpower arcane jewelry w/Illambris. You can hit 20k. A simple rotation and destro ult.

kongkim

Nihility42 wrote: »

show previous quotes

kongkim wrote: »

All you DPS elite people. here. Would you kick me for running a build like this.

http://www.eso-skillfactory.com/en/share/23251/
x2 Slimecraw
x5 Medusa
x5 Mechanical Acuity

I have around 470 CP.

I do not like to make builds that 90% of all others use. But I like to be able to do some content later on and not just put the game away.

The build isn't important, per se, it's what you do with it. What sort of parses do you hit?

Ok Hit just around 10K but not always. But again im, not max CP and not perfect traits. and still, need better rotations

Asardes

kongkim wrote: »

All you DPS elite people. here. Would you kick me for running a build like this.

http://www.eso-skillfactory.com/en/share/23251/
x2 Slimecraw
x5 Medusa
x5 Mechanical Acuity

I have around 470 CP.

I do not like to make builds that 90% of all others use. But I like to be able to do some content later on and not just put the game away.

1) Winter's Revenge scales off maximum magicka so it will do negligible DPS on a stamina character; it's pretty weak even on magicka Warden, and it's one of the main reason it's so weak in PvE, since most DPS there is from ground based DoTs
2) Arctic blast scales on your health and does magicka damage, so it won't hit very hard and won't benefit from CP allocation into Mighty and Precise Strikes. If you need a burst heal you'll better use Soothing Spores, at least until you unlock vigor since those will scale off your maximum stamina and weapon damage.
3) Camouflaged Hunter on your front bar is redundant since you get the same buff, Major Savagery from Green Lotus, and buffs of the same type don't stack
4) You can run Rearming Trap instead of any of those 3 redundant and ineffective skills, thus gaining Minor Force from that instead; it also buffs your damage from skill line passive: Slayer - 3% weapon damage for each Fighters Guild skill slotted. Thus you wouldn't need Meduse, and you could run a pure stamina damage and/or sustain set instead
5) Medusa comes with maximum magicka, spell damage and maximum health bonuses, which aren't very effective on a stamina build, since most of your skills will scale off maximum stamina and weapon damage. It also comes with healthy jewelry only which will further gimp your stats. Also, the 5th piece bonus becomes redundant if you run Rearming Trap
6) Rapid Strikes/Blood Thirst is very bad as single target spammable, since it's expensive compared to the damage it does; in the past people ran that skill in that rotation simply to empower their DoTs trough Maelstrom weapons special effect. Shrouded Daggers (AoE) and Cutting Dive (single target) are much better skills to fill that slot
7) There's absolutely no reason to run Warhorn on a DD since that skill has fixed buffs that don't scale of your stats. You are better off using a DPS skill like Ballista or Wild Guardian (you have to double bar it)

Overall that build is utterly ineffective at sustaining, survival and pulling damage so it will get you kicked quite fast from any dungeon if I'm leading the group.

coop500

The best I've ever done is 8K DPS...

This is why I never queue as a DD in vet dungeons or any trails. But usually I'm a pretty good healer and a not too horrible tank.