The Scalebreaker DLC game pack and Update 23 base-game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts

Does any StamDk here feel the heroic slash nerf?

  • Machete
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    KingLogix wrote: »
    I've given up on stamDK buffs. ZOS doesn't like us. Playerbase don't like us. nobody likes us.
    We are the poster child of heavy armor meta, we are the scapegoat.

    Zos just ignores us.

    The player base just emphasizes on how we have “strong dots ”

    Funny when you think that best dot builds are stamsorc/stamblades with dual wield- axe bleeds.

    Which is sadly true, as bleed goes through resistances. Venomous and Noxious are worthless unless you want the Fracture from Noxious, and even then, good luck landing the *** ability. I switched to stam Warden, they aren't gonna nerf subbteran any time soon.
    Edited by Machete on January 30, 2018 7:43PM

    Omni

    Monarch Wintervine, Stamina DK, AD
    Heir Wintervine, Stamina Warden, AD
    Sierena Hlaalu, Stamina Templar, AD
    Blou Springwillow, Stamina Sorc, AD
    Taliana Silverthorn, Stamina NB, AD
    Monarch Wíntervine, Stamina DK, EP
    Lily Hlaalu, Stamina NB, EP
    Tankito Fondlini, DK Tank, EP
    Evaii Spellborn, Magicka DK, EP
    Thellion Evaire, Magicka Warden, AD
    Weylenn Aenwee, Magicka Templar, AD
    Moriana Embergrove, Magicka Sorc, AD
    Aranyus Highren, Magicka NB, AD
  • Izaki
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    Ocelot9x wrote: »
    I really don't understand why we are the only class with only 2 stamina morphs in the game.

    Stam Sorcs have only 1 stamina morph in the game.
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  • BohnT
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    Izaki wrote: »
    Ocelot9x wrote: »
    I really don't understand why we are the only class with only 2 stamina morphs in the game.

    Stam Sorcs have only 1 stamina morph in the game.

    Dark Deal, Hurricane, surge
  • Ragnarock41
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    Zer0oo wrote: »
    Wow there are actually people on the forum defending the snare on this skill. Even without the snare this skill will be extremely strong: minor herorism and main are extrem strong de/buff, it still has the snare on it but not for such an insane time and does damage.

    Its ''extreme'' strength comes with double the cost over ransack.

    I was using this with noxious breath but now I can just use ransack+flames of oblivion, for %10 free crit and half the cost.

    The 12 sec snare meant that I could use this and swap to my 2h bar for dizzy swings.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 30, 2018 7:51PM
  • Izaki
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Building a DW/DW Stam DK I immediately noticed one big issue with stam DK:

    td54ccxe6eva.png


    Even the last few ticks of Venomous Claw are outperformed by Blood Craze.

    Granted, this is with Master DW, but still... one would expect atleast the last few ticks to deal more damage.


    I think they should give the skill some additional effect that benefits PvP DKs, it feels very weak at the moment. I mean, why would I ever slot Venomous Claw and deal less damage (that doesn't ignore mitigation like bleeds) compared to Blood Craze. And that's omitting the Blood Craze healing entirely (or Rending Slashes snare which is 50% compared to 30% Warmth passive if you go with that morph).


    But yeah, those issues aside I think this patch is buffing sDK both directly & indirectly tbh.

    Buffs:
    • Steel Tornado undodgeable - this makes DW sooo much better. Cleave also undodgeable for those who want to try Master Brawler on sDK... (haven't tested yet).
    • Off Balance changes, ability to stun with Power Lash (or just medium weave). Frees up two skill slots: your CC (you can use Tactician+Shuffle/dodge roll->Power Lash for stun) & Vigor (because that Power Lash heals for more than Vigor even on stam builds).

    Remains to be seen how viable they'll be.

    1. Blood Craze is a bleed. Bleeds ignore the target's armor values. So if you don't have a lot of penetration to begin with, bleeds are VERY valuable. If you test Blood Craze vs Venom Claw while having 18.2K penetration on the dummy, the latter will outperform the former in a big way, unless you have the Master DW, in which case they would be about the same. If you had used say Noxious Breath to debuff the target, your Claw would deal a very noticeable amount more damage.
    2. Steel Tornado has always been undodgeable, its an AoE. The change in the patch notes was directed at the base ability, which was also unblockable aparently. But Steel Tornado and the other morph always were undodgeable.
    @ Izaki #PCEU
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  • techprince
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    I use that as a spammable with fully charged heavy attack so wont affect me.
  • Ragnarock41
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Building a DW/DW Stam DK I immediately noticed one big issue with stam DK:

    td54ccxe6eva.png


    Even the last few ticks of Venomous Claw are outperformed by Blood Craze.

    Granted, this is with Master DW, but still... one would expect atleast the last few ticks to deal more damage.


    I think they should give the skill some additional effect that benefits PvP DKs, it feels very weak at the moment. I mean, why would I ever slot Venomous Claw and deal less damage (that doesn't ignore mitigation like bleeds) compared to Blood Craze. And that's omitting the Blood Craze healing entirely (or Rending Slashes snare which is 50% compared to 30% Warmth passive if you go with that morph).


    But yeah, those issues aside I think this patch is buffing sDK both directly & indirectly tbh.

    Buffs:
    • Steel Tornado undodgeable - this makes DW sooo much better. Cleave also undodgeable for those who want to try Master Brawler on sDK... (haven't tested yet).
    • Off Balance changes, ability to stun with Power Lash (or just medium weave). Frees up two skill slots: your CC (you can use Tactician+Shuffle/dodge roll->Power Lash for stun) & Vigor (because that Power Lash heals for more than Vigor even on stam builds).

    Remains to be seen how viable they'll be.

    no matter how hard you try, a stamblade will ALWAYS outperform a stamDK, on any PvP task that isn't holding block for long periods of time.

    Same with stamsorc, stamwarden, stamplar.. Anything really.

    DW buffs are nice and all but it doesnt mean anything for stamDK, the class lacks a built in gapcloser ,execute, or spammable to make use of dual wield.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 30, 2018 7:59PM
  • Izaki
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    KingLogix wrote: »
    With all the commotion about DK’s in general in this last week, I was very sure some things were going to get rebalanced(possible in our favor XD). Out of all of the skills(Suprise attack, Incap, Subterranean assault, and jabs) they decide to nerf heroic slash. Can anyone link me a post where someone is actually complaining about the ability?

    Which class utilizes heroic slash the most? Definitely Stamina DK’s. It’s no argument. With that being said, it must have been another direct nerf.

    We literally have use that ability to line up an already high counter played ability(dizzy swing). If we miss the dizzy swing? Tough ***... we don’t have a poison whip, Suprise attack, subterranean, or jabs to fall to fall back on. (This is for you to Stam sorcs).

    I understand this nerf to the ability won’t completely break our class. My concerns is the direction our class is going. All of these direct/indirect nerfs are pretty small, but when you compile them all together on a list, it’s pretty fat. They don’t seem to understand the impacts they are having.

    I propose we get a poison inhale(it seems more possible then poison whip). They can keep all the changes, but they definitely need to provide us a little more offensive capability. We have the most counter play at the moment

    Heroic Slash was giving you Minor Maim (which reduces damage by 15%), it was giving you Minor Heroism (which is a lot of extra ultimate regen), it was giving you a 60% snare for 8 seconds and it was dealing pretty big damage. That's a lot of things packed into 1 ability. It has 3 additional effects on top of the damage. Compare that to Subterranean Assault (Major Fracture and Major Breach as the only effect), Surprise Attack (Major Fracture and stun from stealth as the 2 extra effects), Biting Jabs (Major Savagery and 70% snare as the 2 extra effects). Incap gives you 3 things as well: Major Defile, a stun and 20% empower. And that's an ultimate. I can't think of any other damage ability that has 3 VERY strong additional effects outside of passives.

    Just saying that the nerf to this ability is justified and considering they only touched the duration of the snare without altering anything else.
    @ Izaki #PCEU
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  • pieratsos
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    KingLogix wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    KingLogix wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    KingLogix wrote: »
    Calling a reduced snare from S&B a(n exclusive) nerf to DK's is a bit of a stretch.
    You know what’s really sad? The fact that a nerf to that ability is infact a nerf to the Stam Dk. Heroic slash is our jabs, Suprise attack, and subterranean assault. That is our “spammable dps”. We have to use that ability to line up a high counter play ability(dizzy swing). They reduced it by about 75-80%. That’s like reducing the fracture by 75-80% on Suprise attack. It wouldn’t hurt the stamblades all to much, because they already have a nice kit to work with, but you get the point.


    But if its ur spammable then its obviously not going change anything since you spam it and keep the snare up anw.

    I guess I have to alobarate on the forums... It’s my “spammable dps” in a sense that it is my only ability that I can hit to get dps(I sometimes run dizzy, but its high counterplay makes me unslot it), and to alobrate more I do not count dot, a spammable dps(Incase you were about to use that in your rebuttal). I don’t hit heroic in exactly 4 second increments. So yes, going from 12 seconds to 4 seconds is a lot when that’s your MAIN ability.

    Heroic slash in general is considered a spammable DPS ability. This means a hit every 4 seconds isnt something hard to do. Its a huge snare attached to a spammable ability. Having to work a bit to keep up that powerful debuff isnt exactly bad.

    Sure the nerf doesn’t “destroy” the class. In the big picture, it’s just another nerf on top of the handful we have already recieved. Now that we have a handful of nerfs.. little nerfs like these do hurt us(especially because our spammable dps isn’t even in our own skill lines). When you put 3k hours into a class, you KNOW exactly what affects the class, and what doesn’t. I’m asking for you to be open minded.. let’s say your class has gone through extensive nerfs(as much as the Dk), and your skill bar consist of 3-4 abilities from a weapon line. And 1 of those abilities got a 80% reduction to its utilite. Would you still feel the same as far as where you stand? My intentions are not to fire shots, but for people to be open minded on why us Stam DK’s complain about “little” changes like these.

    I am not arguing about stam DKs being good or anything. You misunderstood me. There is no denying that stam DK needs help. But they need buffs in the class. Probably massive buffs. Things like heroic slash or snb ult for example is what keeps classes from getting buffs. Cause they give the delusion that classes perform good when in fact they are just crutching on a bunch of different mechanics completely unrelated to the class.

    I am just judging heroic slash as an ability. Heroic slash as an ability was overloaded. It needed a slight adjustment to provide more thoughtful use to gain its benefits. This is what a duration decrease to the snare is. Now a good player will intentionally use the ability every 4 seconds to gain its benefit which is not that hard to do since its a spammable. And bad players will obviously not be able to permasnare people that easy.

    I am actually surprised that they did this change and they didnt give it the frag treatment by completely gutting the ability and entirely changing its functionality.
  • Ragnarock41
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    Izaki wrote: »
    KingLogix wrote: »
    With all the commotion about DK’s in general in this last week, I was very sure some things were going to get rebalanced(possible in our favor XD). Out of all of the skills(Suprise attack, Incap, Subterranean assault, and jabs) they decide to nerf heroic slash. Can anyone link me a post where someone is actually complaining about the ability?

    Which class utilizes heroic slash the most? Definitely Stamina DK’s. It’s no argument. With that being said, it must have been another direct nerf.

    We literally have use that ability to line up an already high counter played ability(dizzy swing). If we miss the dizzy swing? Tough ***... we don’t have a poison whip, Suprise attack, subterranean, or jabs to fall to fall back on. (This is for you to Stam sorcs).

    I understand this nerf to the ability won’t completely break our class. My concerns is the direction our class is going. All of these direct/indirect nerfs are pretty small, but when you compile them all together on a list, it’s pretty fat. They don’t seem to understand the impacts they are having.

    I propose we get a poison inhale(it seems more possible then poison whip). They can keep all the changes, but they definitely need to provide us a little more offensive capability. We have the most counter play at the moment

    Heroic Slash was giving you Minor Maim (which reduces damage by 15%), it was giving you Minor Heroism (which is a lot of extra ultimate regen), it was giving you a 60% snare for 8 seconds and it was dealing pretty big damage. That's a lot of things packed into 1 ability. It has 3 additional effects on top of the damage. Compare that to Subterranean Assault (Major Fracture and Major Breach as the only effect), Surprise Attack (Major Fracture and stun from stealth as the 2 extra effects), Biting Jabs (Major Savagery and 70% snare as the 2 extra effects). Incap gives you 3 things as well: Major Defile, a stun and 20% empower. And that's an ultimate. I can't think of any other damage ability that has 3 VERY strong additional effects outside of passives.

    Just saying that the nerf to this ability is justified and considering they only touched the duration of the snare without altering anything else.

    Actually you are very correct.
    Heroic slash nerf is justified from an overall gameplay perspective. Just like shuffle nerfs.

    Yet again this is another indirect nerf to stamDk.
    The class is already dead and its getting more nerfs...
  • DDuke
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    Izaki wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Building a DW/DW Stam DK I immediately noticed one big issue with stam DK:

    td54ccxe6eva.png


    Even the last few ticks of Venomous Claw are outperformed by Blood Craze.

    Granted, this is with Master DW, but still... one would expect atleast the last few ticks to deal more damage.


    I think they should give the skill some additional effect that benefits PvP DKs, it feels very weak at the moment. I mean, why would I ever slot Venomous Claw and deal less damage (that doesn't ignore mitigation like bleeds) compared to Blood Craze. And that's omitting the Blood Craze healing entirely (or Rending Slashes snare which is 50% compared to 30% Warmth passive if you go with that morph).


    But yeah, those issues aside I think this patch is buffing sDK both directly & indirectly tbh.

    Buffs:
    • Steel Tornado undodgeable - this makes DW sooo much better. Cleave also undodgeable for those who want to try Master Brawler on sDK... (haven't tested yet).
    • Off Balance changes, ability to stun with Power Lash (or just medium weave). Frees up two skill slots: your CC (you can use Tactician+Shuffle/dodge roll->Power Lash for stun) & Vigor (because that Power Lash heals for more than Vigor even on stam builds).

    Remains to be seen how viable they'll be.

    1. Blood Craze is a bleed. Bleeds ignore the target's armor values. So if you don't have a lot of penetration to begin with, bleeds are VERY valuable. If you test Blood Craze vs Venom Claw while having 18.2K penetration on the dummy, the latter will outperform the former in a big way, unless you have the Master DW, in which case they would be about the same. If you had used say Noxious Breath to debuff the target, your Claw would deal a very noticeable amount more damage.

    Yes, of course with Noxious applied it's more damage, but still much less than Blood Craze:
    nvjax7yuv5wr.png

    ...and requires you to combine it with another skill (that's not guaranteed to land in PvP) to get real value out of it. And still (while dealing less damage) doesn't provide the secondary effect Blood Craze/Rending Slashes does, and also doesn't gain +20% dmg to low health enemies or +15% dmg to stunned enemies.

    For PvP, Venomous Claw just seems awful and could use some buffs (ones that don't affect PvE).
    Izaki wrote: »
    2. Steel Tornado has always been undodgeable, its an AoE. The change in the patch notes was directed at the base ability, which was also unblockable aparently. But Steel Tornado and the other morph always were undodgeable.

    It isn't undodgeable, there was even a thread about it: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/386362/steel-tornado-is-dodgeable




    I've even tested it myself. Brawler (another AoE) also was dodgeable before this latest PTS update.

    There are still dodgeable stamina AoEs: Power Extraction, Claws of Anguish/Life, Bombard/Acid Spray, Endless Hail/Arrow Barrage
    Edited by DDuke on January 30, 2018 8:23PM
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  • CyrusArya
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    A 12 second snare is ridiculous and its a very reasonable nerf they are dishing. But leave it to the QQknights to take everything as a direct assault on the very identity and soul of their class, lol.

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  • Ragnarock41
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    CyrusArya wrote: »
    A 12 second snare is ridiculous and its a very reasonable nerf they are dishing. But leave it to the QQknights to take everything as a direct assault on the very identity and soul of their class, lol.

    because it obviously makes so much sense to balance a skill the worst PvP class uses.
    Its definitely top priority because cyrodiil is full of stamDks and not stamblades/stamdens.

    I forgot we are in 2015, sorry for asking ZOS to stop hitting my already dead class.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 30, 2018 8:51PM
  • Derra
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    CyrusArya wrote: »
    A 12 second snare is ridiculous and its a very reasonable nerf they are dishing. But leave it to the QQknights to take everything as a direct assault on the very identity and soul of their class, lol.

    because it obviously makes so much sense to balance a skill the worst PvP class uses.
    Its definitely top priority because cyrodiil is full of stamDks and not stamblades/stamdens.

    I forgot we are in 2015, sorry for asking ZOS to stop hitting my already dead class.

    The problem is:
    Stamsorcs, Stamplars, Stamblades and stamden use it aswell. Not as their main spammable but as a simple buff skill that provides an insane snare + 2 powerful debuffs.

    Also long duration snares should all be adressed and reduced to 4s max. Lotusfan, vampires bane and cripple are left.
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  • JobooAGS
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    BohnT wrote: »
    Izaki wrote: »
    Ocelot9x wrote: »
    I really don't understand why we are the only class with only 2 stamina morphs in the game.

    Stam Sorcs have only 1 stamina morph in the game.

    Dark Deal, Hurricane, surge

    surge and dark deal cost magicka and neither do damage
  • Ragnarock41
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    Derra wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    A 12 second snare is ridiculous and its a very reasonable nerf they are dishing. But leave it to the QQknights to take everything as a direct assault on the very identity and soul of their class, lol.

    because it obviously makes so much sense to balance a skill the worst PvP class uses.
    Its definitely top priority because cyrodiil is full of stamDks and not stamblades/stamdens.

    I forgot we are in 2015, sorry for asking ZOS to stop hitting my already dead class.

    The problem is:
    Stamsorcs, Stamplars, Stamblades and stamden use it aswell. Not as their main spammable but as a simple buff skill that provides an insane snare + 2 powerful debuffs.

    Also long duration snares should all be adressed and reduced to 4s max. Lotusfan, vampires bane and cripple are left.

    So then again, why nerf heroic slash out of all the 9132124325345 snares in the game?
  • Derra
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    Derra wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    A 12 second snare is ridiculous and its a very reasonable nerf they are dishing. But leave it to the QQknights to take everything as a direct assault on the very identity and soul of their class, lol.

    because it obviously makes so much sense to balance a skill the worst PvP class uses.
    Its definitely top priority because cyrodiil is full of stamDks and not stamblades/stamdens.

    I forgot we are in 2015, sorry for asking ZOS to stop hitting my already dead class.

    The problem is:
    Stamsorcs, Stamplars, Stamblades and stamden use it aswell. Not as their main spammable but as a simple buff skill that provides an insane snare + 2 powerful debuffs.

    Also long duration snares should all be adressed and reduced to 4s max. Lotusfan, vampires bane and cripple are left.

    So then again, why nerf heroic slash out of all the 9132124325345 snares in the game?

    Because it´s the strongest ability out of all of these 9132124325345 snares - and on top of that the longest snare of them.
    Edited by Derra on January 30, 2018 9:12PM
    <Noricum>
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  • Ragnarock41
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    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    A 12 second snare is ridiculous and its a very reasonable nerf they are dishing. But leave it to the QQknights to take everything as a direct assault on the very identity and soul of their class, lol.

    because it obviously makes so much sense to balance a skill the worst PvP class uses.
    Its definitely top priority because cyrodiil is full of stamDks and not stamblades/stamdens.

    I forgot we are in 2015, sorry for asking ZOS to stop hitting my already dead class.

    The problem is:
    Stamsorcs, Stamplars, Stamblades and stamden use it aswell. Not as their main spammable but as a simple buff skill that provides an insane snare + 2 powerful debuffs.

    Also long duration snares should all be adressed and reduced to 4s max. Lotusfan, vampires bane and cripple are left.

    So then again, why nerf heroic slash out of all the 9132124325345 snares in the game?

    Because it´s the strongest ability out of all of these 9132124325345 snares - and on top of that the longest snare of them.

    And it has a seriously high cost for the utility it comes with. Why not just remove the snare entirely and make its cost similar to ransack? 4 second snare is barely noticeable, and the only reason I would ask for a long snare is to make sure I can land my dizzy swing, I mean, I can just go for ransack+FoO now, less cost, more crits and FoO will provide a snare anyways.

    They really didnt solve anything by nerfing the snare duration.
  • VilniusNastavnik
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    Ocelot9x wrote: »
    I really don't understand why we are the only class with only 2 stamina morphs in the game.

    *cough* Stamsorc
    Bound Armaments
    Hurricane
    Dark Deal. <-rarely used.

    Kindly show me these tonne more useful skills you speak of. Unless you are referring to the passives.
    Edited by VilniusNastavnik on January 30, 2018 9:29PM
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  • pieratsos
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    Derra wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    A 12 second snare is ridiculous and its a very reasonable nerf they are dishing. But leave it to the QQknights to take everything as a direct assault on the very identity and soul of their class, lol.

    because it obviously makes so much sense to balance a skill the worst PvP class uses.
    Its definitely top priority because cyrodiil is full of stamDks and not stamblades/stamdens.

    I forgot we are in 2015, sorry for asking ZOS to stop hitting my already dead class.

    The problem is:
    Stamsorcs, Stamplars, Stamblades and stamden use it aswell. Not as their main spammable but as a simple buff skill that provides an insane snare + 2 powerful debuffs.

    Also long duration snares should all be adressed and reduced to 4s max. Lotusfan, vampires bane and cripple are left.

    So then again, why nerf heroic slash out of all the 9132124325345 snares in the game?

    Stampede and heroic slash were arguably the two worst snares because of their very long duration and the nature of the skill they are attached to, making 100% uptime extremely easy to achieve. Then comes lotus fan which should be addressed now as well. But they said that they are going to address the all snares in the future. Though i have no idea why they dont do it now. Its not like they are going to rework the entire snare system. They said they are just going to address the durations.
  • Derra
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    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    A 12 second snare is ridiculous and its a very reasonable nerf they are dishing. But leave it to the QQknights to take everything as a direct assault on the very identity and soul of their class, lol.

    because it obviously makes so much sense to balance a skill the worst PvP class uses.
    Its definitely top priority because cyrodiil is full of stamDks and not stamblades/stamdens.

    I forgot we are in 2015, sorry for asking ZOS to stop hitting my already dead class.

    The problem is:
    Stamsorcs, Stamplars, Stamblades and stamden use it aswell. Not as their main spammable but as a simple buff skill that provides an insane snare + 2 powerful debuffs.

    Also long duration snares should all be adressed and reduced to 4s max. Lotusfan, vampires bane and cripple are left.

    So then again, why nerf heroic slash out of all the 9132124325345 snares in the game?

    Because it´s the strongest ability out of all of these 9132124325345 snares - and on top of that the longest snare of them.

    And it has a seriously high cost for the utility it comes with. Why not just remove the snare entirely and make its cost similar to ransack? 4 second snare is barely noticeable, and the only reason I would ask for a long snare is to make sure I can land my dizzy swing, I mean, I can just go for ransack+FoO now, less cost, more crits and FoO will provide a snare anyways.

    They really didnt solve anything by nerfing the snare duration.

    FoO / Warmth snare is in no way comparable to low slash. It´s 3s 30% snare whereas lowslash was 12 4s 60%.
    Edit: Also warmth used to stack with certain other snares - no idea if that´s tstill the case.

    Tbh they could reduce the cost slightly for removing the snare - same as ransack would make ransack obsolete as it would be completely outperformed by lowslash in every imaginable way.

    You´ll also see me arguing to get rid of every other long duration snare still left in the game. There is no reason to have them.
    Edited by Derra on January 30, 2018 9:35PM
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - Grand Overlord - Spotless Dro-m'Athra Destroyer pre one Tamriel
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - Grand Overlord
    ... - DC - NB

  • BohnT
    BohnT
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    ✭✭
    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    CyrusArya wrote: »
    A 12 second snare is ridiculous and its a very reasonable nerf they are dishing. But leave it to the QQknights to take everything as a direct assault on the very identity and soul of their class, lol.

    because it obviously makes so much sense to balance a skill the worst PvP class uses.
    Its definitely top priority because cyrodiil is full of stamDks and not stamblades/stamdens.

    I forgot we are in 2015, sorry for asking ZOS to stop hitting my already dead class.

    The problem is:
    Stamsorcs, Stamplars, Stamblades and stamden use it aswell. Not as their main spammable but as a simple buff skill that provides an insane snare + 2 powerful debuffs.

    Also long duration snares should all be adressed and reduced to 4s max. Lotusfan, vampires bane and cripple are left.

    So then again, why nerf heroic slash out of all the 9132124325345 snares in the game?

    Because it´s the strongest ability out of all of these 9132124325345 snares - and on top of that the longest snare of them.

    And it has a seriously high cost for the utility it comes with. Why not just remove the snare entirely and make its cost similar to ransack? 4 second snare is barely noticeable, and the only reason I would ask for a long snare is to make sure I can land my dizzy swing, I mean, I can just go for ransack+FoO now, less cost, more crits and FoO will provide a snare anyways.

    They really didnt solve anything by nerfing the snare duration.

    FoO / Warmth snare is in no way comparable to low slash. It´s 3s 30% snare whereas lowslash was 12 4s 60%.
    Edit: Also warmth used to stack with certain other snares - no idea if that´s tstill the case.

    Tbh they could reduce the cost slightly for removing the snare - same as ransack would make ransack obsolete as it would be completely outperformed by lowslash in every imaginable way.

    You´ll also see me arguing to get rid of every other long duration snare still left in the game. There is no reason to have them.

    ofc there is how do you want People to Xv1? :trollface:
  • SirDopey
    SirDopey
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    KingLogix wrote: »
    With all the commotion about DK’s in general in this last week, I was very sure some things were going to get rebalanced(possible in our favor XD). Out of all of the skills(Suprise attack, Incap, Subterranean assault, and jabs) they decide to nerf heroic slash. Can anyone link me a post where someone is actually complaining about the ability?

    Which class utilizes heroic slash the most? Definitely Stamina DK’s. It’s no argument. With that being said, it must have been another direct nerf.

    We literally have use that ability to line up an already high counter played ability(dizzy swing). If we miss the dizzy swing? Tough ***... we don’t have a poison whip, Suprise attack, subterranean, or jabs to fall to fall back on. (This is for you to Stam sorcs).

    I understand this nerf to the ability won’t completely break our class. My concerns is the direction our class is going. All of these direct/indirect nerfs are pretty small, but when you compile them all together on a list, it’s pretty fat. They don’t seem to understand the impacts they are having.

    I propose we get a poison inhale(it seems more possible then poison whip). They can keep all the changes, but they definitely need to provide us a little more offensive capability. We have the most counter play at the moment

    HOW is this a DK nerf as opposed to a S&B Nerf? This affects ALL classes using the skill. The DK fan club is starting to get reeeal annoying with the whole internalizing every change into a nerf directed at them. I'm sick of hearing it.
    NA PC | AD
    xx Doc Holliday xx
  • KingLogix
    KingLogix
    ✭✭✭
    SirDopey wrote: »
    KingLogix wrote: »
    With all the commotion about DK’s in general in this last week, I was very sure some things were going to get rebalanced(possible in our favor XD). Out of all of the skills(Suprise attack, Incap, Subterranean assault, and jabs) they decide to nerf heroic slash. Can anyone link me a post where someone is actually complaining about the ability?

    Which class utilizes heroic slash the most? Definitely Stamina DK’s. It’s no argument. With that being said, it must have been another direct nerf.

    We literally have use that ability to line up an already high counter played ability(dizzy swing). If we miss the dizzy swing? Tough ***... we don’t have a poison whip, Suprise attack, subterranean, or jabs to fall to fall back on. (This is for you to Stam sorcs).

    I understand this nerf to the ability won’t completely break our class. My concerns is the direction our class is going. All of these direct/indirect nerfs are pretty small, but when you compile them all together on a list, it’s pretty fat. They don’t seem to understand the impacts they are having.

    I propose we get a poison inhale(it seems more possible then poison whip). They can keep all the changes, but they definitely need to provide us a little more offensive capability. We have the most counter play at the moment

    HOW is this a DK nerf as opposed to a S&B Nerf? This affects ALL classes using the skill. The DK fan club is starting to get reeeal annoying with the whole internalizing every change into a nerf directed at them. I'm sick of hearing it.

    The questions you should ask your self. Which class normally has 3-4 S&B abilities? Which class uses heroic slash the most?
    1) Is it NB?
    Is it DK?
    Is it stamden?
    Etc.

    2) does one get affected more then the other?

    3) are you implying that, NB and other classes that don’t even really use s&B abilities are affected just as much as the DK? Just because they “technically
  • SirDopey
    SirDopey
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    KingLogix wrote: »
    SirDopey wrote: »
    KingLogix wrote: »
    With all the commotion about DK’s in general in this last week, I was very sure some things were going to get rebalanced(possible in our favor XD). Out of all of the skills(Suprise attack, Incap, Subterranean assault, and jabs) they decide to nerf heroic slash. Can anyone link me a post where someone is actually complaining about the ability?

    Which class utilizes heroic slash the most? Definitely Stamina DK’s. It’s no argument. With that being said, it must have been another direct nerf.

    We literally have use that ability to line up an already high counter played ability(dizzy swing). If we miss the dizzy swing? Tough ***... we don’t have a poison whip, Suprise attack, subterranean, or jabs to fall to fall back on. (This is for you to Stam sorcs).

    I understand this nerf to the ability won’t completely break our class. My concerns is the direction our class is going. All of these direct/indirect nerfs are pretty small, but when you compile them all together on a list, it’s pretty fat. They don’t seem to understand the impacts they are having.

    I propose we get a poison inhale(it seems more possible then poison whip). They can keep all the changes, but they definitely need to provide us a little more offensive capability. We have the most counter play at the moment

    HOW is this a DK nerf as opposed to a S&B Nerf? This affects ALL classes using the skill. The DK fan club is starting to get reeeal annoying with the whole internalizing every change into a nerf directed at them. I'm sick of hearing it.

    The questions you should ask your self. Which class normally has 3-4 S&B abilities? Which class uses heroic slash the most?
    1) Is it NB?
    Is it DK?
    Is it stamden?
    Etc.

    2) does one get affected more then the other?

    3) are you implying that, NB and other classes that don’t even really use s&B abilities are affected just as much as the DK? Just because they “technically

    In PVP I run S&B on the 3 characters I play. Stam Sorc (both bars), Stam Warden (back bar) and Templar (back bar). I think the one thing EVERYONE can agree on at the moment is that S&B is the current meta for all stamina classes in PVP. So yeah, you are being pretty ridiculous claiming this only affects your class.

    In PVE DK's are still top dog for tanking, but I'm still seeing plenty of Wardens, Templars and even a few sorcs lately. So again, to claim this only affects your class is just ridiculous
    NA PC | AD
    xx Doc Holliday xx
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    ✭✭✭
    SirDopey wrote: »
    KingLogix wrote: »
    With all the commotion about DK’s in general in this last week, I was very sure some things were going to get rebalanced(possible in our favor XD). Out of all of the skills(Suprise attack, Incap, Subterranean assault, and jabs) they decide to nerf heroic slash. Can anyone link me a post where someone is actually complaining about the ability?

    Which class utilizes heroic slash the most? Definitely Stamina DK’s. It’s no argument. With that being said, it must have been another direct nerf.

    We literally have use that ability to line up an already high counter played ability(dizzy swing). If we miss the dizzy swing? Tough ***... we don’t have a poison whip, Suprise attack, subterranean, or jabs to fall to fall back on. (This is for you to Stam sorcs).

    I understand this nerf to the ability won’t completely break our class. My concerns is the direction our class is going. All of these direct/indirect nerfs are pretty small, but when you compile them all together on a list, it’s pretty fat. They don’t seem to understand the impacts they are having.

    I propose we get a poison inhale(it seems more possible then poison whip). They can keep all the changes, but they definitely need to provide us a little more offensive capability. We have the most counter play at the moment

    HOW is this a DK nerf as opposed to a S&B Nerf? This affects ALL classes using the skill. The DK fan club is starting to get reeeal annoying with the whole internalizing every change into a nerf directed at them. I'm sick of hearing it.

    Are you one of those guys who said wrath nerf isn't a stamDK nerf lol.
    Because I swear you are just as ridicilous as those guys.

    Obviously stamDK out of all classes relies on this the most.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 30, 2018 9:49PM
  • SirDopey
    SirDopey
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    SirDopey wrote: »
    KingLogix wrote: »
    With all the commotion about DK’s in general in this last week, I was very sure some things were going to get rebalanced(possible in our favor XD). Out of all of the skills(Suprise attack, Incap, Subterranean assault, and jabs) they decide to nerf heroic slash. Can anyone link me a post where someone is actually complaining about the ability?

    Which class utilizes heroic slash the most? Definitely Stamina DK’s. It’s no argument. With that being said, it must have been another direct nerf.

    We literally have use that ability to line up an already high counter played ability(dizzy swing). If we miss the dizzy swing? Tough ***... we don’t have a poison whip, Suprise attack, subterranean, or jabs to fall to fall back on. (This is for you to Stam sorcs).

    I understand this nerf to the ability won’t completely break our class. My concerns is the direction our class is going. All of these direct/indirect nerfs are pretty small, but when you compile them all together on a list, it’s pretty fat. They don’t seem to understand the impacts they are having.

    I propose we get a poison inhale(it seems more possible then poison whip). They can keep all the changes, but they definitely need to provide us a little more offensive capability. We have the most counter play at the moment

    HOW is this a DK nerf as opposed to a S&B Nerf? This affects ALL classes using the skill. The DK fan club is starting to get reeeal annoying with the whole internalizing every change into a nerf directed at them. I'm sick of hearing it.

    Are you one of those guys who said wrath nerf isn't a stamDK nerf lol.
    Because I swear you are just as ridicilous as those guys.

    Obviously stamDK out of all classes relies on this the most.

    Simply saying something is Obvious doesn't make it so. The Nerf affects all classes equally, so thinking DK's are so special that every decision ZOS is making is revolving around them - it's not, its everything to do with the 7th legend HA cookie cutter builds in pvp.
    NA PC | AD
    xx Doc Holliday xx
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    ✭✭✭
    SirDopey wrote: »
    SirDopey wrote: »
    KingLogix wrote: »
    With all the commotion about DK’s in general in this last week, I was very sure some things were going to get rebalanced(possible in our favor XD). Out of all of the skills(Suprise attack, Incap, Subterranean assault, and jabs) they decide to nerf heroic slash. Can anyone link me a post where someone is actually complaining about the ability?

    Which class utilizes heroic slash the most? Definitely Stamina DK’s. It’s no argument. With that being said, it must have been another direct nerf.

    We literally have use that ability to line up an already high counter played ability(dizzy swing). If we miss the dizzy swing? Tough ***... we don’t have a poison whip, Suprise attack, subterranean, or jabs to fall to fall back on. (This is for you to Stam sorcs).

    I understand this nerf to the ability won’t completely break our class. My concerns is the direction our class is going. All of these direct/indirect nerfs are pretty small, but when you compile them all together on a list, it’s pretty fat. They don’t seem to understand the impacts they are having.

    I propose we get a poison inhale(it seems more possible then poison whip). They can keep all the changes, but they definitely need to provide us a little more offensive capability. We have the most counter play at the moment

    HOW is this a DK nerf as opposed to a S&B Nerf? This affects ALL classes using the skill. The DK fan club is starting to get reeeal annoying with the whole internalizing every change into a nerf directed at them. I'm sick of hearing it.

    Are you one of those guys who said wrath nerf isn't a stamDK nerf lol.
    Because I swear you are just as ridicilous as those guys.

    Obviously stamDK out of all classes relies on this the most.

    Simply saying something is Obvious doesn't make it so. The Nerf affects all classes equally, so thinking DK's are so special that every decision ZOS is making is revolving around them - it's not, its everything to do with the 7th legend HA cookie cutter builds in pvp.

    No the nerfs don't affect everyone equally.

    Shuffle nerf didn't affect stamdens as much as stamDks, because they have alternative burst heals.
    They can run forward momentum and be fine. Meanwhile green dragon blood is legit the worst healing ability in the game.
    It is soooo bad that wardens can outheal it with 2 light attacks from green lotus.

    and wrath removal didn't affect stamblades as much as stamDks because they don't rely on heavy armor for survival in the first place.
    (funny enough they are also stronger than sDKs in heavy armor too.)

    You can't say a nerf to a general ability is a general nerf because it can be used by everyone.
    A nerf to an ability mainly used by stamDks, means it is more of a nerf to stamDks.

    simple to understand really.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 30, 2018 10:13PM
  • Sixty5
    Sixty5
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    C'mon man, you have to admit that 12 seconds on a heavy snare is excessive.

    If you aren't running Shuffle or Forward Momentum it utterly shuts down any Medium build.


    Why is it that DK players are the saltiest kids on the forums. I don't remember Templar mains crying this hard.
    Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.

    I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
    Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds
  • KingLogix
    KingLogix
    ✭✭✭
    SirDopey wrote: »
    KingLogix wrote: »
    SirDopey wrote: »
    KingLogix wrote: »
    With all the commotion about DK’s in general in this last week, I was very sure some things were going to get rebalanced(possible in our favor XD). Out of all of the skills(Suprise attack, Incap, Subterranean assault, and jabs) they decide to nerf heroic slash. Can anyone link me a post where someone is actually complaining about the ability?

    Which class utilizes heroic slash the most? Definitely Stamina DK’s. It’s no argument. With that being said, it must have been another direct nerf.

    We literally have use that ability to line up an already high counter played ability(dizzy swing). If we miss the dizzy swing? Tough ***... we don’t have a poison whip, Suprise attack, subterranean, or jabs to fall to fall back on. (This is for you to Stam sorcs).

    I understand this nerf to the ability won’t completely break our class. My concerns is the direction our class is going. All of these direct/indirect nerfs are pretty small, but when you compile them all together on a list, it’s pretty fat. They don’t seem to understand the impacts they are having.

    I propose we get a poison inhale(it seems more possible then poison whip). They can keep all the changes, but they definitely need to provide us a little more offensive capability. We have the most counter play at the moment

    HOW is this a DK nerf as opposed to a S&B Nerf? This affects ALL classes using the skill. The DK fan club is starting to get reeeal annoying with the whole internalizing every change into a nerf directed at them. I'm sick of hearing it.

    The questions you should ask your self. Which class normally has 3-4 S&B abilities? Which class uses heroic slash the most?
    1) Is it NB?
    Is it DK?
    Is it stamden?
    Etc.

    2) does one get affected more then the other?

    3) are you implying that, NB and other classes that don’t even really use s&B abilities are affected just as much as the DK? Just because they “technically

    In PVP I run S&B on the 3 characters I play. Stam Sorc (both bars), Stam Warden (back bar) and Templar (back bar). I think the one thing EVERYONE can agree on at the moment is that S&B is the current meta for all stamina classes in PVP. So yeah, you are being pretty ridiculous claiming this only affects your class.

    In PVE DK's are still top dog for tanking, but I'm still seeing plenty of Wardens, Templars and even a few sorcs lately. So again, to claim this only affects your class is just ridiculous

    So you are implying that your warden, templar and Stam Sorc use heroic slash just as much in there rotation as a Stam Dk? (Pvp)
    I use heroic slash as much as your warden uses subterranean, and templar to jabs. Your Stam Sorc? I already spoke for them in the post if you bothered to even read all of it...

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