Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Seventh nerfed lol
Well there you go!

I would say a good change for overall balance, and they did what we suggest, they nerfed the heal spam without actually destroying the set.

On the other news troll king is now nerfed and Im really worried about that.

Actually Troll will work as intended instead of bugged as now (i'm not wondered, that defiles don't cut health recovery of it now, I felt something wrong with it, now everything at its place).
Seventh, pity, but agree, its good for overall change, it procs so often when outnumbered.
It will be harder 1vX on stamina character.
At the other hand, if it have cooldown, i think right action from them could be give it more chance to proc (like 20% at least), because in 1vX its uptime is cool, but in 1v1 it's uptime can be unreliable

Right now the forums are swarming with a magicka dk nerf ... What about the Stam Dk?

Let's look at both versions side by side ...

Stam DK vs Magicka DK

What are the advantages right now to run a Stam DK? Over a magicka DK.... who wins?
Ok ...
Let's also look a little further what advantages does DK the have over other classes? Who wins?

Keep in mind we have only 2 stam morphs in our class...
WE have magicka morphs not used that would make great stam enhancements Green Dragon Blood for example......

usmcjdking wrote: »

I don't think Stamina DK is weak, at all. The issue people ultimately have with Stamina DK is that Stamina Warden is nearly as good at doing what Stamina DK does best, except it also does just about everything else better.

Stamina DK being weak is a function of Stamina Warden getting more bang for it's buck. Warden needs to be nerfed before stam DK needs to be buffed.

the real problem is stam dk is one of the best in pve. and worst in pvp. They should do a really good job to make him stronger onl in pvp.
If u say stam dk is strong, u play it pve only or don't play at all.
Stam dks were strong because of resourses (% battleroar and helping hands were op, now - very up) and unique at old times take flight. Also, Reflecting scale really reflected projectiles before making Crushing shock unreflectible and adding Cliff racers. Now...
Dots...absurdly useless vs half of classes.
Snare or heal, hallo multiple defiles and garantied death, no spam damage, no spam heal, no escape, no execute, and no Resourses.
Thats stam dk's reality. Hell poor.

@ZOS_Wrobel Balance stam dk. They are underpoerforming in pvp. Garbage from all sides, buff them (slightly) to stand in a raw with others.

Relevant again. We still face the same issues.

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

DK's have the ulti regen and 5% weapon damage in one passive though, which templars have as two seperates AND need to use a skill to get the 3 ultimate while DK's always get it in combat.

Passive ulti gen is a joke. It's(3 ult) triggered once every 6 seconds. The 5% WD is minor brutality, a group buff, meaning it would just stack on the templar passive. Furthermore, templar has better passives overall.

Templars aren't without their faults, but don't try to say they're even remotely close to how bad Stam DKs are.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

I find even keeping Igneous weapons up casting once every 30 seconds to be a strain on my magicka at times.

While it can be rough, i think the idea behind stam dk is to use igneous to burst heal. Though, yes, many of the EH spells are very expensive for us to use. A cheap ult definitely helps for mag sustain, but Battle Roar and Helping Hands being base values is just not enough to really keep us in there.

after reading new patchnotes in general I enjoy changes, but if to say about stamdk...it will be still ***.
Fragmented shield longer mending ok, better healing (if u have burst heal option).
Snare removing on scales.
And now...both skills are for magicka and damn expencive.
To sustain them u need sacrifice your damage. Its a huge problem.
Stamplar and stamwarden need no to do anything like that.
Especially last one, shimmering "nerf" is nothing. 3200 start cost instead 2700. So after hits - 1200 instead 700.
Zero cost if to compare with 2 skills, every of which cost ~4k.

Here: no way to counter dots, esp bleeds, no immunity options to snares, only one possible option to burst heal morf Rally on 2hander, in medium even with fragmented shield u have no enouch heal to overheal pressure from nb, stamden, stamplar and even stamwarden. U cannot oversustain anything, because helping hands and battle roar are total garbage.
U have no any spamskill, same as stamsorc, which also need some love.

But, here idea.
Guys, here 1st week of PTS.
Please, lets go to PTS thread, and write to at least add to scales little snare immunity.
And make it staminabased.
To increase stamreturn from helping hands.
For example

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

after reading new patchnotes in general I enjoy changes, but if to say about stamdk...it will be still ***.
Fragmented shield longer mending ok, better healing (if u have burst heal option).
Snare removing on scales.
And now...both skills are for magicka and damn expencive.
To sustain them u need sacrifice your damage. Its a huge problem.
Stamplar and stamwarden need no to do anything like that.
Especially last one, shimmering "nerf" is nothing. 3200 start cost instead 2700. So after hits - 1200 instead 700.
Zero cost if to compare with 2 skills, every of which cost ~4k.

Here: no way to counter dots, esp bleeds, no immunity options to snares, only one possible option to burst heal morf Rally on 2hander, in medium even with fragmented shield u have no enouch heal to overheal pressure from nb, stamden, stamplar and even stamwarden. U cannot oversustain anything, because helping hands and battle roar are total garbage.
U have no any spamskill, same as stamsorc, which also need some love.

But, here idea.
Guys, here 1st week of PTS.
Please, lets go to PTS thread, and write to at least add to scales little snare immunity.
And make it staminabased.
To increase stamreturn from helping hands.
For example

2-3 seconds of snare immunity on wings would bring back stamDK from the dead, as you could actually pick rally and make good use of it with mending. Would it be amazing? No. not really. Would it be a start? yes.

Otherwise I see absolutely no friggen reason to play a stamDK over magDK, in both pve and pvp for summerset.

not sure about pve(it seems he will be still same bis at dps as now), but in pvp definitely

diplomatt wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

diplomatt wrote: »

after reading new patchnotes in general I enjoy changes, but if to say about stamdk...it will be still ***.
Fragmented shield longer mending ok, better healing (if u have burst heal option).
Snare removing on scales.
And now...both skills are for magicka and damn expencive.
To sustain them u need sacrifice your damage. Its a huge problem.
Stamplar and stamwarden need no to do anything like that.
Especially last one, shimmering "nerf" is nothing. 3200 start cost instead 2700. So after hits - 1200 instead 700.
Zero cost if to compare with 2 skills, every of which cost ~4k.

Here: no way to counter dots, esp bleeds, no immunity options to snares, only one possible option to burst heal morf Rally on 2hander, in medium even with fragmented shield u have no enouch heal to overheal pressure from nb, stamden, stamplar and even stamwarden. U cannot oversustain anything, because helping hands and battle roar are total garbage.
U have no any spamskill, same as stamsorc, which also need some love.

But, here idea.
Guys, here 1st week of PTS.
Please, lets go to PTS thread, and write to at least add to scales little snare immunity.
And make it staminabased.
To increase stamreturn from helping hands.
For example

2-3 seconds of snare immunity on wings would bring back stamDK from the dead, as you could actually pick rally and make good use of it with mending. Would it be amazing? No. not really. Would it be a start? yes.

Otherwise I see absolutely no friggen reason to play a stamDK over magDK, in both pve and pvp for summerset.

not sure about pve(it seems he will be still same bis at dps as now), but in pvp definitely

as of right now stamDK isn't bis in PvE, and if they don't want that to be the case, they can just rework molten armaments(which is horribly outdated skill with terrible morphs anyways), that ability was never supposed to be used by stamDks, which is why it has sorcery instead of brutality.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

DBS v Leap

My tool tip with standard buff no gear procs

DBS 14.8K WITH A 15K dot proc.. if you hit a vamp add 20% so your initial hit is about 18k on a vamp

Take Flight is 21k with no dot the thing I hate about take flight is doing multiple ult drops its,really bad knocks everyone out of execute and other ults...

So what about changing take flight flight morph (NOT BOTH MORPHS) to a knockdown instead of a knockback? People fall at your feet. Combine that with an some sort of buff for a few seconds after. There are plenty of options.

• %Damage increase for next attack or (minor berserk for a few seconds)
• Increased damage to low health targets.
• 1-2 seconds of all three warhorn buffs.
• Any interesting buff really.

That won't solve all of StamDK problems but it would make Take Flight worth slotting over DB. The sustain issue still needs to be worked on.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

as of right now stamDK isn't bis in PvE, and if they don't want that to be the case, they can just rework molten armaments(which is horribly outdated skill with terrible morphs anyways), that ability was never supposed to be used by stamDks, which is why it has sorcery instead of brutality.

Adding major brutality to molten armaments would help a ton too. Its an extremely easy fix, and it would really free DKs from relying on rally/FM for brutality.

Really brutality isn't the reason we go for Rally/FM. stamDk has enough free skill spots to put igneous weapons on. The reason we go for FM or Rally is the heal over time/bust heal.

Because the moment you drop momentum, you're left with only vigor, which is not enough to keep you alive under pressure, even in 1v1s.

And obviously the more Heals you stack, the more value you get from major mending. I don't see anybody picking molten over momentum, even with brutality on it, compare that skill to something like crit surge or warden netch, then ask yourself, is %40 heavy attack damage worth anything for PvP?

The only instance where I saw that ability being used in PvP was @Krotha 's stamDk battlegrounds build, which used dual wield heavies as a spammable. (and I'm pretty sure he would still keep rally on his bar even with brutality on molten, because there just isn't any other heal offered to stamDks that can replace it.)

Solution to stam dk buffs instead of responding thread just make new ones and complain by filling entire pts forum with buff dk threads

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

DBS v Leap

My tool tip with standard buff no gear procs

DBS 14.8K WITH A 15K dot proc.. if you hit a vamp add 20% so your initial hit is about 18k on a vamp

Take Flight is 21k with no dot the thing I hate about take flight is doing multiple ult drops its,really bad knocks everyone out of execute and other ults...

So what about changing take flight flight morph (NOT BOTH MORPHS) to a knockdown instead of a knockback? People fall at your feet. Combine that with an some sort of buff for a few seconds after. There are plenty of options.

• %Damage increase for next attack or (minor berserk for a few seconds)
• Increased damage to low health targets.
• 1-2 seconds of all three warhorn buffs.
• Any interesting buff really.

That won't solve all of StamDK problems but it would make Take Flight worth slotting over DB. The sustain issue still needs to be worked on.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

as of right now stamDK isn't bis in PvE, and if they don't want that to be the case, they can just rework molten armaments(which is horribly outdated skill with terrible morphs anyways), that ability was never supposed to be used by stamDks, which is why it has sorcery instead of brutality.

Adding major brutality to molten armaments would help a ton too. Its an extremely easy fix, and it would really free DKs from relying on rally/FM for brutality.

Really brutality isn't the reason we go for Rally/FM. stamDk has enough free skill spots to put igneous weapons on. The reason we go for FM or Rally is the heal over time/bust heal.

Because the moment you drop momentum, you're left with only vigor, which is not enough to keep you alive under pressure, even in 1v1s.

And obviously the more Heals you stack, the more value you get from major mending. I don't see anybody picking molten over momentum, even with brutality on it, compare that skill to something like crit surge or warden netch, then ask yourself, is %40 heavy attack damage worth anything for PvP?

The only instance where I saw that ability being used in PvP was @Krotha 's stamDk battlegrounds build, which used dual wield heavies as a spammable. (and I'm pretty sure he would still keep rally on his bar even with brutality on molten, because there just isn't any other heal offered to stamDks that can replace it.)

If you are using forward momentum instead of rally anyway, then the heal isn't really helping you that much. If wings remove snares, then you could run molten arms for brutality and wings for snare removal. This is obviously not optimal but if you are getting additional healing from a set piece or some other source, it could be workable. I hate rally, and would love to be free of it.

momentum hot is essential part of stamina Dk. It has a very solid heal over time. You can wear troll king for a similar healing, but TK procs when you're low HP. You will be missing out on healing. There are no class heals that you can slot instead of momentum. No burst heals, nor Heal over times.

Using molten armaments+heavy attacks on 2h will be extremely clunky because of how slow 2h heavies are. Even dizzying swing is perfectly countered by stamblades, you can't hope to land any hits on them with a heavy attack. You need something that hits fast, like ransack or heroic slash, or hell, even DW flying blade is a better option for that purpose.

With all things considered, if you don't like running momentum, stamDK is not your class sadly. stamsorc/stamden/stamblade can have some serious success without running a 2h, but for sDk it is an absolute must have. Unless you want a double SnB tank build or something lol.