AddictionX wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

Here are somethings i think will help pvp stamina DK

Elder dragon - instead of health recovery per ability slotted, I would like to see something more useful. Critical healing amount and critical healing chance would be a nice change. Could also go with max health increase by 5/10% percent per ability active. Not slotted.

Inhale - I believe a stamina morph of this skill would be nice(deep breath?), causing poison damage would go a long way. It would probably be too weak still. Perhaps also granting minor protection reducing damage taken by 8 percent during its duration. Perhaps removing the heal associated with it but buffing the damage done based on damage taken during its duration. More damage taken = more damage done/reflected back to the attacker.

Spiked armor - While most use Volatile armor I think this could be changed into giving more damage returned per attack. A way to do this is to give the returned amount to deal physical(poison?/bleed) damage. Returning a % of the damage taken to the attacker instead of a flat amount. The stronger the attack the more that gets reflected. Also, it should have perhaps a (20ish?) percent chance to reflect 1 range ability if blocked causing stun for 4 seconds. Its AoE is useful to stamina DK for pulling a nb out of cloak because revealing flare is impractical to run on a stamDK.

Reflective scales - I think we can change reflective plate to cost stamina instead of 4 projectiles in 4 seconds ...I would much rather see perhaps 2 (or 3) projectiles reflected but at 15 to 8 seconds. With snare removal/immunity for 5 seconds(if not then have it grant major expedition for 6 seconds.) or hell just turn this one into a stamina ability and that'll do for now. At this point I would take anything.

I will update farther with any new idea's....

Combustion could be changed to giving back resources. For example, when I hear the word combustion i think of what happens inside engines it basically burns fuel and converts it into mechanical energy. So i think this should be changed into when you reapply a poison or flame damage skill you increase your stamina and magicka recovery by 10/20%.

World in ruin - could be changed to giving back ultimate instead. When you take Critical damage you gain additional 6 ultimate while in combat once every 12 seconds. 12 Second cooldown.

This would make sDK an even better turtle tank in PvP, without solving the real issue.
Which is lack of burst and dots getting countered easily.

Combustion and WiR are damage passives and they should be about doing damage, not sustain.
Earthen heart is the DK's sustain tree, which is nerfed to a point its totally unreliable.

Stamina wings is something I'm suggesting since I made this forum account and it would really help with snare removal, or a speed buff.

Figured someone might of said that, so I actually took these passives as sort of a spin-off of what the warden had in similar trees. Basically, you just told me that the only way to play warden is to be a turtle tank. Just compare it.

So now lets be clear to zenimax and stop asking for the impossible.

We are not a burst class- so get over it and get it through your head. We are not the burst class.... you want it to be, zenimax has obviously made it clear based on the fact that they refuse to give this class burst. So the answer is no, they're not getting burst in the form of a class skill spammable(later on this note). Dots do get countered easily by... cleanse, purge etc... so just reapply? good luck cleansing them 60 times in a single minute w/major/minor defile and cost poisons...

What are we, we are a dot/resource sustain through ultimate/ tanky(not full tank) class. So instead of advocating for things that zenimax will never do, advocate for things that might make sense in their eyes.

Common counters include a well timed volitile burst(in referance to cloak), which could use a damage buff but ofcourse people wouldnt agree to it because "it jst promotez turtlez tank arrrh" ... so you would deny a buff any buff if it doesnt fit your particular play style but would benifit every DK across the board? Got it. Clearly bias.

ALTHOUGH everything i listed so far basically helps it with what the DK needs which is resource sustain, we need a form of ultimate regeneration that isnt tied to a nerf... our burst comes in the form of ultimate which is also tied into our resource sustain.

So what is next we need another way to gain utlimate ...

Zenimax wants us to use dots in pvp? ok sure be happy with your poison passive damage passive its weak as hell anyways... like seriously what are they going to do buff it by 10/20(which is the most they could do if they EVER considered it) percent so we can all be bow spammers? No thanks dots are weak and they're in one way useful pressure when you stack them with minor/major defile 45 percent heal debuff so you would have to buff dots by like almost 50 percent for them to be useful on their own. Which THAT is not happening... so instead I ask zenimax to help me keep the dots up by increasing the sustain to be able to keep it up. Which will in turn help most DK with regeneration. (comparable to a wardens passive flourish) doubt the resource increase on this will help a turtle tank that is holding block cause they likely DONT care about stamina sustain. Magicka? doubt its a game changer for most of them but it would help stamina dk. BUT NOT BUFFING THEIR DPS IN PVE! So yeah it works as a regen passive not a damage passive.

Taking critical damage isnt something I want to do, but since I have NO OTHER CHOICE but to take damage might as well gain ultimate for being beaten to a pulp. Sure, we can stack impen and stuff but its risk vs reward here for this passive to be usefull.....This is comparable to having minor heroism which would be nice to have without being forced into running SnB for it. But well lets just keep the useless word in ruin. Its atleast a damage passive that doesnt really make sense. Go ahead. (BTW if you did the math 60/12 = 5(ticks per minute) which would translate into 30 additional ultimate gain per minute similar to minor heroism.) But there is another catch you have to be able to actually live a minute while taking critical damage for the best case senario. Works for me... promoting sustain to actually out sustain enemies.

I added a stamina reflective scales and to fish out bias in people and its clear to me that you probably like that idea because it allows you to have snare removal/escape but also allows for rally. Let me tell you that if a turtle tank uses these two things they would be even HARDER to kill and well you took the bait. So surely you must have a problem with that idea too.

A morph of spiked armor which increases healing by 12 percent due to passives gives a buff but a crap dot? How about we have a morph that does poison/bleed damage that REFLECTS back a percentage of the attack back instead of a flat amount. DD's in pve are not taking direct damage all the time so it wouldn't really be that much of a pve buff. The skill tree is all about reflecting damage back but it does a poor job at it to be honest. And a chance of reflecting a single casted ability on a counter play move like block, and its a percentage chance so if you reflect a light attack ice shard(similar to defensive posture but a weaker version of it) oh well but at least you have a chance from tactically blocking an attack to reflect a single attack instead of being a practice dummy. oh yeah let me spam this on a turtle tank for that 20 percent chance for a free reflect on a buff skill? Let it proc on Roll dodge cause well your rolling how does it make sense to roll and reflect something, even when you have wings up....like how many people roll with wings up? Also roll dodging is something where the repeated dodging of an attack would increase its cost. But blocking a light attack from someone who wants to light attack your wings away comes at a potential cost to be countered with a stun. KEEPING IN MIND that blocking any attack will reset your stamina regeneration for a full 2(TWO) seconds before it starts to tick again.

Inhale could be the delayed burst similar to a wardens bug attack that come off the ground(aka subterranean assault) but instead of it inflicting major breach/fracture let it do the opposite and grant minor toughness.

I really dont know what the issue would be with my suggestion for elder dragon... my suggestion is on the lines of the warden (maturation passive).

Dude, seriously, what are you even talking about?
Your writing is all over the place, and why are you even going to defence mode?



I didnt tell you only way to play stamden is turtle tank. I told you stamDK is already a very strong tank and giving it all that sustain will make it even more absurd at tanking. nobody asks for that. Nobody. Why is this so hard to understand.. like...

DK-NO-TANK- DK-WANT-BURST.. there.. easier now? Can you understand the issue with your suggestion now?

You're basically saying lets not ask the impossible but in your first suggestion you are asking for the impossible.

Your suggestion is making the best tank in this game an even better tank. No, that won't do at all sadly.

Nobody is asking for tanking buffs here. why do you assume giving DK free hp and ult gen will make it burstier?

It cost a dragonic ability to be active so no not really free hp. I mean like what did you want instead casting a dragonic ability to grant minor berserk?(something that is limited to a class as you said but more specifically a monster set but as a passive? 8+8=16 if it isnt classed as a minor berserk passive and it'll stack.

Anything that buffs damage will buff the turtle tank counter damage too. Something zenimax will likely not do. Because stamina DK on the pve side is doing good dps over a good time. How does giving 10 percent hp increase damage out put? well it really doesnt so it wont buff them on the pve side and tip the scales. Thats why I thought it would be a good suggestion on something they might be willing to consider. Otherwise zenimax will risk giving more dps to the pve side of things. Here is a good reference guide that include different ways to get different buffs. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/284053/buffs-and-debuffs-a-full-list-updated-for-clockwork-city/p1

Utimate regeneration because for the longest time playing stamina DK most of the burst has been to Burst+take flight/Dawnbreaker to be used as a soft reset and counter to stop all damage taken and get back on the offensive. The longer the fight last the more it would shift into a sDK favor. Ultimate Regeneration is important because it allows you to keep pressure up. Thus allowing it to burst more often. What does dawnbreaker/take flight do with low weapon damage... absolutely nothing. Like maybe 5-6k damage on a target but on a dps build ive seen them hit quite high. Not to mention one is avoidable/ the other blockable. Not only that the nightblades have incap which cost like 70 ultimate and its quite bursty when combined with other burst skills.

also ZENIMAX's-DK-IS-NO-BURST .... ZENIMAX's-DK-IS-ALL-DOT-AND-SUSTAIN ... there... Couldnt have said it any other way.... dots are weak in pvp but strong for pve so increasing damage to them wont work especially for pve. I'm talking about the dots on the ardent flame tree to be clear.

Go on pick a buff on the list of buffs. 8 percent more damage on a dot? yeah, zenimax for pve gives a big fat no. Unless it applies to all damage done which i doubt it since class passives on dk have been to mostly synergize with its own tree.

Sustain has been toned down alot helping hands doesnt do much, and battle roar doesnt provide the sustain it should. Both have been overly nerfed.

EDIT:

MagDK domination days? Basically the skills if you read through them would cost stamina... how would a magDK block cast with stamina costing skills?

I think since you convinced yourself that these are absolute tank buffs but fail to realize the warden has the same buffs basically. So when you say it'll make a stronger tank ---the warden has the same buffs! You are failing to look at this from a different perspective other than your own. You have to look at it from both pve, and pvp side. It's near impossible to increase damage or give us burst damage without making them over performing in PVE. Like just take a second and look at it.

I'm really getting tired of explaining every single guy in this game why their ''perfect balance'' ideas are not perfect at all,
since even the smallest change in this game can be a disaster because of build variety and mag/stam imbalance should be preserved.

but sure,whatever. I will explain you one more time, tho you either don't have the ability to understand or you do act like this on purpose.

either way I will give you a detailed explaination anyways, because you clearly lack knowledge about what makes stamdens so strong. Which is okay. As long as you are willing to learn then hope is not lost. Now I'm not saying that Im an expert at game balance or anything. but I played both classes enough to know whats the issue with stamDk. (spoilers: Its lack of burst)

''hurr durr warden has the same buffs''

No , friend. No, Its not that simple.

Yes, wardens do have %12 regen and they have ult regen, that is correct.

But that isn't the whole package for them. This is why you're wrong.

So, nothing but cold and hard facts coming now.

warden gets %2 damage done PER ANIMAL COMPANION ABILITY slotted.
(so lets assume our warden only slotted sub assault on his front bar and has only %2 bonus damage)

And another %8 from bird of prey, in the form of minor berserk. which also gives 2 other major buffs, and completely removes the need of slotting a gapcloser, which is getting a nerf next patch anyways. ( I mean the gapclosers, bird of prey is obviously not nerfed.)

So with bird of prey, you can have slimecraw without equipping slimecraw.

That makes %10 extra damage done.

On top of that added damage they do have sub assault, which with a high damage build does insane burst.
Sub assault hits targets like an aoe dizzying swing, and It has 20m range.

This is soo strong that I Don't even need to use dawnbreaker to get close to the pressure level of a stamDK.
Just the dizzy+s.assault combo is similar burst to a dizzy+leap.

And to make it even better, sub assault is undodgeable, also unblockable.


on top of all this damage they can run heavy and forward momentum because they do have a burst heal, that for some reason also heals allies in front of the warden,

they also have green lotus that gives major savagery+passive heals from light/heavy attacks.(unlike FoO, this doesnt work on the bar its slotted, it gives you the crit+heals while its active, so you can run this on back-bar, giving you more freedom compared to the crappy FoO)

On top of all that, green lotus actually heals your friends too, Its doing the work of both inferno morphs, yes.

And I didnt even mentioned how shimmering shield costs nothing while DK wings have an insane magicka cost.


So, you see, I don't know how can I explain this in a more simple way but It is really simple to understand;

Stamden is not picked over because it can spam more ults, or it can heal-sustain better.
its picked over because it has superior , unstoppable burst.

sDk needs actual damage in its damage passives, It does not need even more hp, it does not need more free regen, it does not need built in ult regen..

It just needs more damage passives and some burst tools.

It could be poison whip, it could be poison inhale , noxious breath reworked into a burst ability or... anything really.
Also a little extra physical damage like every other class have, wouldnt hurt really.

I never claimed that was the entire package from them. But used the warden passive lines as a starting point to remove the passives in the dk tree that do not really do much for the dk at all. Useless passives are Useless passives.

I never claimed these were perfect balance idea's but pointed out options for some passives that need rework and a way to rework them. Which is what should be encouraged instead of .... buff this, buff that. If a person just go around saying buff/nerf whatever then its not really constructive in anyway. Thus, you will get ignored by the people who have the power to change these things. Obviously, they won't adopt all of those things at once they're mostly idea's that probably won't receives any form of recognition.

With if you compare to what some of those passives are now, to what the "updated" sort of passives would be if the dragonknight class came out tomorrow. Health regen vs max health... max health is the winner= just an example for the elder passive.

Also even if you get the damage burst your looking for(doubtful if you dont follow zenimax intent for the classes) and they do state what their intent is however vague their reasoning.

So round up some of the candidates:

Poison whip> one morph are used in pve. The other is used for pvp. zenimax change? doubtful find something else.

Poison inhale- maybe. zenimax change? Well, people have been asking for this since the dawn of time holy hell has it been 4 years already.... No change yet.

Noxious breath- could be a starting point but you are still left with those really bad passives/debuffs on the tree also the major fracture major breech is not needed in this skill. This would be better as a non-dot ability. And the debuff applied something else than those two. Perhaps here you can get the berserk buff you want... it really isnt enough perhaps a savagery buff...

I remember when they created noxious breath/venomus claw and they clearly stated they wanted these two were to act solely as dots.

BohnT wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_Wrobel
Where should we post that feedback to stamdk in PvP and which points should we focus on in our posts?

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Soooo my thoughts on SDK (IMO)
Pros:
• The best ultimate in the game. Even tho dawn breaker does almost the same DMG on vampires+passive weapon damage.
• Battle roar is an unique and cool passive

Cons:
• Feels out of meta because it was overperfoming and fell behind in the nerfs/buffs cycle.
• Most of the passives are useless
• Basically no active skills worth slotting
• Dots are a bad choice in most of the encounters while really good in others (like medium armor wearers)
• Absolutely useless when small scaling

When thinking about buffing SDK me must be careful because it's top DPS in pve.

So my advices:

•Poisonous claws: with a 18k uppercut tooltip this skill deals 5.7k instant plus 15.6k dot (increasing).
A nice idea would be to get some DMG from the dot giving it to the instant damage,so the skill combined with a H/L attack weave can be a spammable (still weaker than others but unique and more importantly without affecting the pve part)

•Deep breath: as SDK lacks utility in group playing reworking this skill could do the job.
Making it scaling with stamina,buffing the damage a little bit+off balance to any enemy hit by it seems good enought to slot the skill.


•Volatile armor: initial damage + damage on hit being a bleed.

•Reflective plate: still cost magicka but also removes snares (and maybe few seconds of immunity).

•Shifting standard: Besides the defile this skill is still useless and not worth slotting (it also block your ulti regen). The idea behind the skill is nice,but it needs something else to boost your group push. Make it drops 2 times likes the old days but also purging 3 status effects to allies could make this skill worth slotting.


And now passives:

Elder dragon: 10% health recovery it's not good (feels like a passive from the open beta).
Reducing the cost of tour skill by 4% when a draconic is slotted would be a nice upgrade to the skill.


I think I'll stop here for now,I'm quite tired lol

Ocelot9x wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@BohnT

TF=take flight is hands down the best class ultimate IMO
Please explain why you consider horrible the change to venomous claw.
Stronger passively applied dots=more pressure on people trying to Xv1 you.
And smallscallers will benefit more from shifting than zergs since they can purge their allies before a coordinated ulti dump

Take flight is a good ult but Dawnbreaker is more reliable as it won't be dodged or avoided like TF does and the extra damage on Vamps + the dot make it better at finishing of people, incap is better for 1vX and duels as it let's you nuke one Person at the time with much higher Chance of success.

Well,actually the only way to miss take flight is casting on someone who's sprinting with major expedition,someone running at max range or streaking away,otherwise is a sure hit (far more reliable than the one from dawnbreaker).
Also,incap is way stronger 1v1 but when outnumbered leap is far better.


BTW nice suggestion post,even tho I don't think that giving an high DMG spammable is possible since it will increase even more the pve dps

Durham wrote: »

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

So we have to endure this class until what ......June ? The next update?

Looks like it !!

There was a comment on ESO live about (buff DK) They were using that as a example in leaving constructive feedback ! So Im guessing they are not really interested in buffing the DKs honestly ... In PVE they are fine in PVE they are weak but most people play PVE so we will have to wait for it .... I would say next year sometimes because it takes them forever to balance an imbalance in PVP ...

Ocelot9x wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@BohnT

TF=take flight is hands down the best class ultimate IMO
Please explain why you consider horrible the change to venomous claw.
Stronger passively applied dots=more pressure on people trying to Xv1 you.
And smallscallers will benefit more from shifting than zergs since they can purge their allies before a coordinated ulti dump

Take flight is a good ult but Dawnbreaker is more reliable as it won't be dodged or avoided like TF does and the extra damage on Vamps + the dot make it better at finishing of people, incap is better for 1vX and duels as it let's you nuke one Person at the time with much higher Chance of success.

Well,actually the only way to miss take flight is casting on someone who's sprinting with major expedition,someone running at max range or streaking away,otherwise is a sure hit (far more reliable than the one from dawnbreaker).
Also,incap is way stronger 1v1 but when outnumbered leap is far better.


BTW nice suggestion post,even tho I don't think that giving an high DMG spammable is possible since it will increase even more the pve dps

Durham wrote: »

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

So we have to endure this class until what ......June ? The next update?

Looks like it !!

There was a comment on ESO live about (buff DK) They were using that as a example in leaving constructive feedback ! So Im guessing they are not really interested in buffing the DKs honestly ... In PVE they are fine in PVE they are weak but most people play PVE so we will have to wait for it .... I would say next year sometimes because it takes them forever to balance an imbalance in PVP ...

Durham wrote: »

Seventh nerfed lol
Well there you go!