can we get a dev to explain what the role of magicka DK is?

Wing · January 2018

other then not being played that is.

Aliyavana · January 2018

Whipping argonian into submission or certain roleplay

bigspender42002 · January 2018

They will never, they will just haul on with there sorcs!

kojou · January 2018

Crafter.

Jeremiah87 · January 2018

I suggest watching Gilliamstherogue's stream from today. Mag DK's have taken a hit but are not utter trash as many people make it out to be.

ak_pvp · January 2018

Tank class

Source: Gina bruno.

Conduit0 · January 2018

Jeremiah87 wrote: »

I suggest watching Gilliamstherogue's stream from today. Mag DK's have taken a hit but are not utter trash as many people make it out to be.

You mean the one where he tries to pretend that parses on a 3mil target dummy that doesn't suffer from off balance cooldown is somehow representative of what mDKs will do in trials? I'm sorry but that is just laughable.

mDKs may not be, "utter trash" but they were already weak and undesirable in trials, even a small hit is too much at this point.

Wing · January 2018

Conduit0 wrote: »

Jeremiah87 wrote: »

I suggest watching Gilliamstherogue's stream from today. Mag DK's have taken a hit but are not utter trash as many people make it out to be.

You mean the one where he tries to pretend that parses on a 3mil target dummy that doesn't suffer from off balance cooldown is somehow representative of what mDKs will do in trials? I'm sorry but that is just laughable.

mDKs may not be, "utter trash" but they were already weak and undesirable in trials, even a small hit is too much at this point.

agreed

people already flock to whatever gives them a 1% edge so this just puts DK's even further behind.

Joy_Division · January 2018

Pinata for a nerf bat.

Maybe it's time to take a look at the multiple Standard of Might Nerfs: the increased costs, the less damage done, the less damage mitigation, others I probably forgot about, etc.

Gilliamtherogue · January 2018

Conduit0 wrote: »

Jeremiah87 wrote: »

I suggest watching Gilliamstherogue's stream from today. Mag DK's have taken a hit but are not utter trash as many people make it out to be.

You mean the one where he tries to pretend that parses on a 3mil target dummy that doesn't suffer from off balance cooldown is somehow representative of what mDKs will do in trials? I'm sorry but that is just laughable.

mDKs may not be, "utter trash" but they were already weak and undesirable in trials, even a small hit is too much at this point.

The fact you miss the oh so obvious point, but jump to statements like, "it isn't rocket science." is hilariously ironic. The purpose of the demonstrations (which I also did a 6m parse, which you missed, not to my surprise after figuring your reading comprehension) was to show that despite having less Off Balance uptime than we do on Live servers (I went from a 90% uptime on Live to 51% on the dummy), I GAINED a large portion of DPS.

You obviously will lose Off Balance uptime in a trial, which leads to less Power Lashes, so a higher sustain requirement is needed. But I have plenty of options; Synergies (not present in the parse) and/or Witch Mother's or Citrus Filet, Heavy Attacks with Molten Armaments, etc.

Everyone is losing DPS next patch if the current Off balance changes happen, that part is undeniable. The difference is some classes will be affected much less than others, which definitely needs to happen, seeing as there are HUGE differences between some classes at the moment.

Conduit0 · January 2018

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Conduit0 wrote: »

Jeremiah87 wrote: »

I suggest watching Gilliamstherogue's stream from today. Mag DK's have taken a hit but are not utter trash as many people make it out to be.

You mean the one where he tries to pretend that parses on a 3mil target dummy that doesn't suffer from off balance cooldown is somehow representative of what mDKs will do in trials? I'm sorry but that is just laughable.

mDKs may not be, "utter trash" but they were already weak and undesirable in trials, even a small hit is too much at this point.

The fact you miss the oh so obvious point, but jump to statements like, "it isn't rocket science." is hilariously ironic. The purpose of the demonstrations (which I also did a 6m parse, which you missed, not to my surprise after figuring your reading comprehension) was to show that despite having less Off Balance uptime than we do on Live servers (I went from a 90% uptime on Live to 51% on the dummy), I GAINED a large portion of DPS.

You obviously will lose Off Balance uptime in a trial, which leads to less Power Lashes, so a higher sustain requirement is needed. But I have plenty of options; Synergies (not present in the parse) and/or Witch Mother's or Citrus Filet, Heavy Attacks with Molten Armaments, etc.

Everyone is losing DPS next patch if the current Off balance changes happen, that part is undeniable. The difference is some classes will be affected much less than others, which definitely needs to happen, seeing as there are HUGE differences between some classes at the moment.

You switched to double inferno staves and put on a monster set that is clearly OP and saw a DPS increase, color me shocked...
What exactly stops any other magicka class from doing the exact same thing when the off balance meta comes to an end? Oh right, nothing, and they already have superior sustain that didn't rely on off balance to begin with so they will be effected less than mDKs. In fact if anything, the new double resource return when off balance is up will be a net sustain gain for other classes.

FlamingBeard · January 2018

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Conduit0 wrote: »

Jeremiah87 wrote: »

I suggest watching Gilliamstherogue's stream from today. Mag DK's have taken a hit but are not utter trash as many people make it out to be.

You mean the one where he tries to pretend that parses on a 3mil target dummy that doesn't suffer from off balance cooldown is somehow representative of what mDKs will do in trials? I'm sorry but that is just laughable.

mDKs may not be, "utter trash" but they were already weak and undesirable in trials, even a small hit is too much at this point.

The fact you miss the oh so obvious point, but jump to statements like, "it isn't rocket science." is hilariously ironic. The purpose of the demonstrations (which I also did a 6m parse, which you missed, not to my surprise after figuring your reading comprehension) was to show that despite having less Off Balance uptime than we do on Live servers (I went from a 90% uptime on Live to 51% on the dummy), I GAINED a large portion of DPS.

You obviously will lose Off Balance uptime in a trial, which leads to less Power Lashes, so a higher sustain requirement is needed. But I have plenty of options; Synergies (not present in the parse) and/or Witch Mother's or Citrus Filet, Heavy Attacks with Molten Armaments, etc.

Everyone is losing DPS next patch if the current Off balance changes happen, that part is undeniable. The difference is some classes will be affected much less than others, which definitely needs to happen, seeing as there are HUGE differences between some classes at the moment.

Yeah, but one of the "HUGE"ly different classes is MagDK, which has some of the worst PvE sustain already on live, meaning that on PTS in a raid setting it's automatically going to be worse due to Off-Balance boss cooldowns.

People have the right to complain when their class is repeatedly nerfed (Standard, Battle Roar passive, PvE off-balance cooldown and Power Lash cooldown in the SAME PATCH, and other nerfs) without receiving any buffs in return to balance those weakened abilities.

MagDK was in a bad spot as-is on Live, and the current PTS changes only exacerbates this issue thus far.

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

Crafter.

but even as a crafter, Dk is the worst because of no mobility.

beetleklee · January 2018

A punching bag.

rustic_potato · January 2018

Source for engulfing flames. Tanks run it now but block changes will leave tanks starving for resources so I see a paradigm shift in the buff sources.

Qbiken · January 2018

Conduit0 wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Conduit0 wrote: »

Jeremiah87 wrote: »

I suggest watching Gilliamstherogue's stream from today. Mag DK's have taken a hit but are not utter trash as many people make it out to be.

You mean the one where he tries to pretend that parses on a 3mil target dummy that doesn't suffer from off balance cooldown is somehow representative of what mDKs will do in trials? I'm sorry but that is just laughable.

mDKs may not be, "utter trash" but they were already weak and undesirable in trials, even a small hit is too much at this point.

The fact you miss the oh so obvious point, but jump to statements like, "it isn't rocket science." is hilariously ironic. The purpose of the demonstrations (which I also did a 6m parse, which you missed, not to my surprise after figuring your reading comprehension) was to show that despite having less Off Balance uptime than we do on Live servers (I went from a 90% uptime on Live to 51% on the dummy), I GAINED a large portion of DPS.

You obviously will lose Off Balance uptime in a trial, which leads to less Power Lashes, so a higher sustain requirement is needed. But I have plenty of options; Synergies (not present in the parse) and/or Witch Mother's or Citrus Filet, Heavy Attacks with Molten Armaments, etc.

Everyone is losing DPS next patch if the current Off balance changes happen, that part is undeniable. The difference is some classes will be affected much less than others, which definitely needs to happen, seeing as there are HUGE differences between some classes at the moment.

You switched to double inferno staves and put on a monster set that is clearly OP and saw a DPS increase, color me shocked...
What exactly stops any other magicka class from doing the exact same thing when the off balance meta comes to an end? Oh right, nothing, and they already have superior sustain that didn't rely on off balance to begin with so they will be effected less than mDKs. In fact if anything, the new double resource return when off balance is up will be a net sustain gain for other classes.

I don´t see why @Gilliamtherogue shouldn´t use what´s available on the PTS to create a "BiS" setup........

What worries me a little is still the mag-drain VS mag-gain on those parses (it´s not horrible but not numbers I enjoy to see. Got roughly the same numbers when testing myself). In a raid you´ll have additional help by orbs/shards etc. but even there it will be more difficult to sustain with the increased synergy cooldown.

Now obviously a target dummy doesn´t work the same way as a boss in terms of off-balance, but will see if I can manage to get some tests of against some trial bosses to see the difference.

I still feel like ZOS is trying to treat the symptoms (making big changes in off-balance system) rather than curing the disease. For magDK the disease is their lack of sustain. I believe magDK would be viable for raids just by fixing their sustain issues. Reducing the cost of skills like Eruption, Molten Whip, Flames of Oblivion, Engulfing Flames would be a good first step. Then I think ZOS should revert the changes to Battle Roar and Helping Hands to pre-Morrowind status (Scaling of maximum resource instead of level).

The major changes to off-balance had such a big impact on magDK because off how Flame-Lash is functioning. The change ZOS made so it shouldn´t be absolutely broken in PvP (which was understandable) also gimped magDK in PvE. If I could sustain the usage of Molten Whip in PvE I would pick that morph 7 days/week, believe me, but at the moment it´s not possible.

Conclusion: Buff magDK´s/StamDK´s sustainability, it´s all the class need.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

Seriously tho, All mDk really needs in pve is better sustain. revert battle roar and make everyone happy already.
Right now it only favors tanks. and Dk tanks hardly need a buff right now.

MLGProPlayer · January 2018

Still better than magicka warden.

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Still better than magicka warden.

for pve it is, but then again magicka warden doesn't eat a melee spot. fixing magden in pve is a lot easier than it looks.
It needs less undodgeable cancer burst and more sustained damage.

MLGProPlayer · January 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Still better than magicka warden.

for pve it is, but then again magicka warden doesn't eat a melee spot. fixing magden in pve is a lot easier than it looks.
It needs less undodgeable cancer burst and more sustained damage.

And yet we're 8 months since it released, and it's still the worst PvE class in the game. ZOS just doesn't care about some classes.

Beardimus · January 2018

bigspender42002 wrote: »

They will never, they will just haul on with there sorcs!

Seriously? Where have you been thru the sorc Nerfs? It's not 2015

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Still better than magicka warden.

for pve it is, but then again magicka warden doesn't eat a melee spot. fixing magden in pve is a lot easier than it looks.
It needs less undodgeable cancer burst and more sustained damage.

And yet we're 8 months since it released, and it's still the worst PvE class in the game. ZOS just doesn't care about some classes.

could say the same for stamDK PvP, Its trash since morrowind and wardens came out.(not because of the existance of stamden, but because of the very heavy nerfs to class and also very heavy indirect nerfs over the past couple months)

So, looking at stamDK I would say zos focuses on pve, but when you look at mDk and magden it makes you think zos focuses on pvp.

in the end I don't understand wtf zos is trying to do.

FakeFox · January 2018

Can we get a newborn to explain what Einsteins relativity theory is?

Was that a bit too mean? Whatever, the point is that if ZOS even has a vision for class and combat balancing it seems to not come from actual experience playing their game. It really feels to me like they just don't know where they want to go with this. They introduce something in one patch and completely reverse it in the next and all of that while nobody has complained about it and a lot of players have actually come to like and use it. I'm honestly getting sick of seeing the same pointless pattern over and over again. Move the game forward or don't move it at all so it can at least not move backwards.

Feanor · January 2018

You can always bring your DK to the zerg.

Turelus · January 2018

The Templar of 2018

Conduit0 · January 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t see why @Gilliamtherogue shouldn´t use what´s available on the PTS to create a "BiS" setup........

I never said he couldn't, my point is that the DPS increase he saw was the not the result of changes that somehow benefit DKs directly, but rather a change in gear that will benefit any magicka character. So at best we're still left with the status quo, mDKs under performing compared to their other magicka counterparts.

Carbonised · January 2018

They want DKs to be tanks. Every change points towards that, and they've even gone out and said it directly.

I'll be using my DD setup for solo and a few dungeons, maybe a little PvP, but I've already found a new tank setup since they took away evasion and Tava, and going to primarily be tanking form here on.

No reason to go against the grain constantly, you only get shredded.

Lord_Eomer · January 2018

Resurrect dead

rafaelcsmaia · January 2018

I wonder if the ones that main a mDK for pve still wanna bash me for asking for class change tokens after these lovely patch notes

Bighanson · January 2018

@ZOS_GinaBruno so what's my role as a mag DK? Crafter, bankchar or RP-char? Why was there no dev comment on the DK changes?

Banana · January 2018

Tank