Make Crystal Frags Great Again!
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Tired of argueing with a bunch of sorcs tryharding class biased forum defense to alter my semantics when, in fact, I just wanted to express support the readjustment of former nerfs.
I don’t think semantics are the issue. Whether it’s a tank approach or not, it’s about the only approach the class has left apart from niche builds like Overload gank approaches or running with base sustain only. Stacking damage is not that beneficial when your burst takes so long as is so highly telegraphed.
I didn't even question that. I stated in my first post, that I hope readjusting former nerfs would change that...
I’d hope so too, but these hopes are slim. If you are a Sorc on these forums you’re used to being defensive because even now a lot of people still think the class needs nerfs. I don’t think we’ll ever see a class overhaul that opens up more choices for Sorcs. I certainly would welcome it though.
Sorc will probably not get buffed as long as shieldstacking is in the game, because it's no fun to fight against shieldspammers. Same reason why medium armor will probably not get buffed unless Cloak is nerfed.
I don’t even want buffs. I want choices. Beginning with not being tied to a Destro/Resto Setup over less toggles and ending with a clear class profile again. Sorc used to be about mobility and range. It’s not any more, and thus for a very long time now.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach build
Frags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Wtf did i do?<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I agree to some extend. Doesn't make the setup mentioned any less sustain/defense focused, which I think produces less attractive gameplay and would fit into the same category/philosophy of making a tank build. That's literally all I said, admittedly my choice of words was not the most political correct one. But the message stays the same and I don't see anything wrong with it.
Apparently, you are not allowed to say such things, to not make Derra go full nerdrage mode and his fanboys following up with the pitchforks. Sad.
That´s the point though.
You try to discredit me by saying i´m going full nerdrage. Yet you don´t adress the arguments. Full ad hominem because someone tells you your argument is wrong.
Shackle lich is one of the most dmg oriented setups that is sustainable for sorc compared to other classes sustainable dmg oriented setups.
It is easier to sustain nb on warmaiden alchemist shadowrend than it is to sustain sorc on shackle lich against a competent high dmg opponent.
Dude, you are now cherrypicking some examples that fit your argument, when I am just poniting out that I personally (and lots of others I talk to) would put the build philosophy into a sustain/defense category. Take a deep breath, read your text again, then look into the mirror - if you are smart, you will realize something.
How many of those others do actually play magica sorc?
I´m sorry but please which of the points i make is objectively wrong?
Why do you perceive me as triggered or making dumb arguments just because i don´t agree with your opinion that´s based on nothing but gutfeeling for the class discussed?
Because, lately, your calmness seems to be very fragile. Your passive-aggressive, non-constructive way of trying to twist my words or discredit my own experience (yadda yadda, 35 mil AP) just to make your point is tiresome and misplaced. I know you long enough to realize that you are right now not interested in having a discussion but focused on making a point no matter the collateral damage.
I already offered you to just agree to diagree.Edited by Mojomonkeyman on January 25, 2018 10:47AMKoma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I agree to some extend. Doesn't make the setup mentioned any less sustain/defense focused, which I think produces less attractive gameplay and would fit into the same category/philosophy of making a tank build. That's literally all I said, admittedly my choice of words was not the most political correct one. But the message stays the same and I don't see anything wrong with it.
Apparently, you are not allowed to say such things, to not make Derra go full nerdrage mode and his fanboys following up with the pitchforks. Sad.
That´s the point though.
You try to discredit me by saying i´m going full nerdrage. Yet you don´t adress the arguments. Full ad hominem because someone tells you your argument is wrong.
Shackle lich is one of the most dmg oriented setups that is sustainable for sorc compared to other classes sustainable dmg oriented setups.
It is easier to sustain nb on warmaiden alchemist shadowrend than it is to sustain sorc on shackle lich against a competent high dmg opponent.
Dude, you are now cherrypicking some examples that fit your argument, when I am just poniting out that I personally (and lots of others I talk to) would put the build philosophy into a sustain/defense category. Take a deep breath, read your text again, then look into the mirror - if you are smart, you will realize something.
How many of those others do actually play magica sorc?
I´m sorry but please which of the points i make is objectively wrong?
Why do you perceive me as triggered or making dumb arguments just because i don´t agree with your opinion that´s based on nothing but gutfeeling for the class discussed?
Because, lately, your calmness seems to be very fragile. Your passive-aggressive, non-constructive way of trying to twist my words or discredit my own experience (yadda yadda, 35 mil AP) just to make your point is tiresome and misplaced. I know you long enough to realize that you are right now not interested in having a discussion but focused on making a point no matter the collateral damage.
I already offered you to just agree to diagree.
Well you´re doing the same by literally discrediting all my experience of playing the class no?
I´m not trying to be passive agressive btw.
I should maybe have added, that these sorcs hitting noticeably harder do not neccessarily have a different, more dmg oriented setup - but rather are better equipped to fight a light armor shield build OR your HA stamsorc or jsut have their CP specced correctly.
It is possible to create setups that do better than shackle lich against either of these - not both however.
I´m very much interested in having a constructive discussion - but that´s rather hard when points don´t get adressed but instead your discussion partner keeps insisting on his preformed opinion based on the wrong approach of theorycrafting the build.
The approach to shackle lich is (sadly) - which setup is able to sustain 3x dmg enchants because those do outperform any dps set alternatives available to the class.Edited by Derra on January 25, 2018 10:56AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.Edited by Subversus on January 25, 2018 10:59AM3 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Mojomonkeyman what would you suggest be a good setup to run on a sorc so that you shouldn't be called a turtle tank by people like you?0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Wtf did i do?
Not you dear. I mean this Subversus person. I just quoted the entire history of what he had quoted.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
Ah my dear person
It's my choosen attire, yes. But I have done and am doing other things than just running around with slaves and pets (am running a 1 pet build btw. But I do not blame you, you only tell what distant rumortellers told you. You do not actually know me ). I am playing magicka Sorcerer since beta and I dare to say, that I do know at least something. I have duelled alot, I have 1vxed likely more than you did. I think I have some basic knowledge after all these years 
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.Edited by Dracane on January 25, 2018 11:11AMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.
It's not about the damage, the thing is that destructive touch adds a stun to your setup which saves you a skillslot and a gcd (unless you want to play without stun at all).I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.
It's not about the damage, the thing is that destructive touch adds a stun to your setup which saves you a skillslot and a gcd (unless you want to play without stun at all).
But of course it costs a skillslot, that was not needed before the nerf. You either drop force pulse, which I refuse to or you need to remove something else from your bar. I imagine as a non pet Sorcerer, it shouldn't be a big deal to have both.
But even 1 pet puts me in a situation where I can't afford this without loosing out on something important
Also, I find the Asylum staff much better. For offense and utility.
Really all I'm after is, people who claim this is a buff for Sorcs. NoEdited by Dracane on January 25, 2018 11:18AMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I agree to some extend. Doesn't make the setup mentioned any less sustain/defense focused, which I think produces less attractive gameplay and would fit into the same category/philosophy of making a tank build. That's literally all I said, admittedly my choice of words was not the most political correct one. But the message stays the same and I don't see anything wrong with it.
Apparently, you are not allowed to say such things, to not make Derra go full nerdrage mode and his fanboys following up with the pitchforks. Sad.
That´s the point though.
You try to discredit me by saying i´m going full nerdrage. Yet you don´t adress the arguments. Full ad hominem because someone tells you your argument is wrong.
Shackle lich is one of the most dmg oriented setups that is sustainable for sorc compared to other classes sustainable dmg oriented setups.
It is easier to sustain nb on warmaiden alchemist shadowrend than it is to sustain sorc on shackle lich against a competent high dmg opponent.
Dude, you are now cherrypicking some examples that fit your argument, when I am just poniting out that I personally (and lots of others I talk to) would put the build philosophy into a sustain/defense category. Take a deep breath, read your text again, then look into the mirror - if you are smart, you will realize something.
How many of those others do actually play magica sorc?
I´m sorry but please which of the points i make is objectively wrong?
Why do you perceive me as triggered or making dumb arguments just because i don´t agree with your opinion that´s based on nothing but gutfeeling for the class discussed?
Because, lately, your calmness seems to be very fragile. Your passive-aggressive, non-constructive way of trying to twist my words or discredit my own experience (yadda yadda, 35 mil AP) just to make your point is tiresome and misplaced. I know you long enough to realize that you are right now not interested in having a discussion but focused on making a point no matter the collateral damage.
I already offered you to just agree to diagree.
Well you´re doing the same by literally discrediting all my experience of playing the class no?
I´m not trying to be passive agressive btw.
I should maybe have added, that these sorcs hitting noticeably harder do not neccessarily have a different, more dmg oriented setup - but rather are better equipped to fight a light armor shield build OR your HA stamsorc or jsut have their CP specced correctly.
It is possible to create setups that do better than shackle lich against either of these - not both however.
I´m very much interested in having a constructive discussion - but that´s rather hard when points don´t get adressed but instead your discussion partner keeps insisting on his preformed opinion based on the wrong approach of theorycrafting the build.
I think you are one of the, if not the most experienced and mechanically sound magsorc in this game and nothing I said was aimed at discrediting your experience on the class. on the other hand, I also think you tend to get blinded by class bias from time to time (like literally anyone else, including me).
Additionally, our playing preferences differ a lot lately (BG vs Cyro, Duels), which alone could be responsible for having different perceptions of builds being viable or fun to play against.
In conclusion, I think discussing the issue full length would probably lead to us agreeing moderately on the other one having valid points, but it would be a very lengthy discussion and this forum thread is probably not the right place for it.
No hard feelings from my side.Edited by Mojomonkeyman on January 25, 2018 11:34AMKoma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.
It's not about the damage, the thing is that destructive touch adds a stun to your setup which saves you a skillslot and a gcd (unless you want to play without stun at all).
But of course it costs a skillslot, that was not needed before the nerf. You either drop force pulse, which I refuse to or you need to remove something else from your bar. I imagine as a non pet Sorcerer, it shouldn't be a big deal to have both.
But even 1 pet puts me in a situation where I can't afford this without loosing out on something important
Also, I find the Asylum staff much better. For offense and utility.
Really all I'm after is, people who claim this is a buff for Sorcs. No
Replacing Force Pulse with Reach would be the thing which I would do actually
I did not say that it's a buff to sorc, I said that it's easier to overcome this nerf if you have a master destro, which many sorcs don't have (including mine).I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I think you are one of the, if not the most experienced and mechanically sound magsorc in this game and nothing I said was aimed at discrediting your experience on the class. on the other hand, I also think you tend to get blinded by class bias from time to time (like literally anyone else, including me).
Well i get blinded by class bias atm mainly bc i see what other classes can get away with.
The only thing that keeps me relatively sane is the fact that magblade + stamblade in heavyarmor have immense problems when heavily outnumbered. However the pure infight comparison of both against up to 3 opponents to magsorc triggers me somewhat as the classes offensive potentials can´t be compared at all at the moment.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Meh. Never cared about the Frag stun as others do. It always got dodged or blocked, anyway.
The burst potential is important. Curse+Fury+Frag with DB/Streak/Cage to CC must be enough to kill, or otherwise the class will not kill. Frag damage nerf put us into this situation. That has to be reversed.
Derra, I raise your Shacklelich by Shacklewizard's - for open world, not duels.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Meh. Never cared about the Frag stun as others do. It always got dodged or blocked, anyway.
The burst potential is important. Curse+Fury+Frag with DB/Streak/Cage to CC must be enough to kill, or otherwise the class will not kill. Frag damage nerf put us into this situation. That has to be reversed.
Derra, I raise your Shacklelich by Shacklewizard's - for open world, not duels.
Shackle riposte or lich + x + pirate/chudan/shadowrend is why the statement about shackle lich kinda gets under my skin.
The two beforementioned are the real cancersetups imo.
To break this up sorc needs vaible equipment choices for dmg in the first place though. You can buff the class all you want - as long as there is nothing to gain from equipping an offensive set (compared to lich + 3x spd jewelry) sorcs are not going to equip anything different.Edited by Derra on January 25, 2018 11:49AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Meh. Never cared about the Frag stun as others do. It always got dodged or blocked, anyway.
The burst potential is important. Curse+Fury+Frag with DB/Streak/Cage to CC must be enough to kill, or otherwise the class will not kill. Frag damage nerf put us into this situation. That has to be reversed.
Derra, I raise your Shacklelich by Shacklewizard's - for open world, not duels.
Shackle riposte or lich + x + pirate/chudan/shadowrend is why the statement about shackle lich kinda gets under my skin.
The two beforementioned are the real cancersetups imo.
Don't let it get to you. Alinor expansion is bound to bring much needed improvements to sorcs. Can't get any worse, riiight?
(^_-)
I think Dark Brotherhood had us in a worse spot, actually. Hm...0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.
It's not about the damage, the thing is that destructive touch adds a stun to your setup which saves you a skillslot and a gcd (unless you want to play without stun at all).
But of course it costs a skillslot, that was not needed before the nerf. You either drop force pulse, which I refuse to or you need to remove something else from your bar. I imagine as a non pet Sorcerer, it shouldn't be a big deal to have both.
But even 1 pet puts me in a situation where I can't afford this without loosing out on something important
Also, I find the Asylum staff much better. For offense and utility.
Really all I'm after is, people who claim this is a buff for Sorcs. No
Replacing Force Pulse with Reach would be the thing which I would do actually
I did not say that it's a buff to sorc, I said that it's easier to overcome this nerf if you have a master destro, which many sorcs don't have (including mine).
You did not. But others do.
I am hoping for 1 specific scenario with the next patch:
Off balanced player can be knocked down with heavy attacks. The question is, if it works the same way as with monsters. Because off balanced monster can be knocked down even by partial heavy attacks.
So the combo I am hoping for, is waiting for curse to explode, then shoot a partial fire heavy attack followed by crystal fragments. If this works, then it would almost work as prior to the nerf.Edited by Dracane on January 25, 2018 11:56AMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.
It's not about the damage, the thing is that destructive touch adds a stun to your setup which saves you a skillslot and a gcd (unless you want to play without stun at all).
But of course it costs a skillslot, that was not needed before the nerf. You either drop force pulse, which I refuse to or you need to remove something else from your bar. I imagine as a non pet Sorcerer, it shouldn't be a big deal to have both.
But even 1 pet puts me in a situation where I can't afford this without loosing out on something important
Also, I find the Asylum staff much better. For offense and utility.
Really all I'm after is, people who claim this is a buff for Sorcs. No
Replacing Force Pulse with Reach would be the thing which I would do actually
I did not say that it's a buff to sorc, I said that it's easier to overcome this nerf if you have a master destro, which many sorcs don't have (including mine).
You did not. But others do.
I am hoping for 1 specific scenario with the next patch:
Off balanced player can be knocked down with heavy attacks. The question is, if it works the same way as with monsters. Because off balanced monster can be knocked down even by partial heavy attacks.
So the combo I am hoping for, is waiting for curse to explode, then shot a partial fire heavy attack followed by crystal fragments. If this works, then it would almost work as prior to the nerf.
According to @DDuke in another thread medium charged heavy attacks indeed trigger the off-balance knockdown versus players (if I am not mistaken).Edited by Mojomonkeyman on January 25, 2018 11:54AMKoma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.
It's not about the damage, the thing is that destructive touch adds a stun to your setup which saves you a skillslot and a gcd (unless you want to play without stun at all).
But of course it costs a skillslot, that was not needed before the nerf. You either drop force pulse, which I refuse to or you need to remove something else from your bar. I imagine as a non pet Sorcerer, it shouldn't be a big deal to have both.
But even 1 pet puts me in a situation where I can't afford this without loosing out on something important
Also, I find the Asylum staff much better. For offense and utility.
Really all I'm after is, people who claim this is a buff for Sorcs. No
Replacing Force Pulse with Reach would be the thing which I would do actually
I did not say that it's a buff to sorc, I said that it's easier to overcome this nerf if you have a master destro, which many sorcs don't have (including mine).
You did not. But others do.
I am hoping for 1 specific scenario with the next patch:
Off balanced player can be knocked down with heavy attacks. The question is, if it works the same way as with monsters. Because off balanced monster can be knocked down even by partial heavy attacks.
So the combo I am hoping for, is waiting for curse to explode, then shot a partial fire heavy attack followed by crystal fragments. If this works, then it would almost work as prior to the nerf.
According to @DDuke in another thread medium charged heavy attacks indeed trigger the off-balance knockdown versus players (if I am not mistaken).
These are great news if true !
If you think about it, this almost reverts Sorc back to what it was. Of course with restrictions.
Setting opponents with shields off balance is technically impossible, because concussion cannot proc on them and thus, wall of elements can't be used to set them off balance. But vs everyone else, I am very optimistic It's a setup that I run since a long time anyway. Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.
It's not about the damage, the thing is that destructive touch adds a stun to your setup which saves you a skillslot and a gcd (unless you want to play without stun at all).
But of course it costs a skillslot, that was not needed before the nerf. You either drop force pulse, which I refuse to or you need to remove something else from your bar. I imagine as a non pet Sorcerer, it shouldn't be a big deal to have both.
But even 1 pet puts me in a situation where I can't afford this without loosing out on something important
Also, I find the Asylum staff much better. For offense and utility.
Really all I'm after is, people who claim this is a buff for Sorcs. No
Replacing Force Pulse with Reach would be the thing which I would do actually
I did not say that it's a buff to sorc, I said that it's easier to overcome this nerf if you have a master destro, which many sorcs don't have (including mine).
You did not. But others do.
I am hoping for 1 specific scenario with the next patch:
Off balanced player can be knocked down with heavy attacks. The question is, if it works the same way as with monsters. Because off balanced monster can be knocked down even by partial heavy attacks.
So the combo I am hoping for, is waiting for curse to explode, then shot a partial fire heavy attack followed by crystal fragments. If this works, then it would almost work as prior to the nerf.
According to @DDuke in another thread medium charged heavy attacks indeed trigger the off-balance knockdown versus players (if I am not mistaken).
Can confirm that, even medium attacks which are barely charged stun on offbalance (don't know if that's intended tho).I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.
It's not about the damage, the thing is that destructive touch adds a stun to your setup which saves you a skillslot and a gcd (unless you want to play without stun at all).
But of course it costs a skillslot, that was not needed before the nerf. You either drop force pulse, which I refuse to or you need to remove something else from your bar. I imagine as a non pet Sorcerer, it shouldn't be a big deal to have both.
But even 1 pet puts me in a situation where I can't afford this without loosing out on something important
Also, I find the Asylum staff much better. For offense and utility.
Really all I'm after is, people who claim this is a buff for Sorcs. No
Replacing Force Pulse with Reach would be the thing which I would do actually
I did not say that it's a buff to sorc, I said that it's easier to overcome this nerf if you have a master destro, which many sorcs don't have (including mine).
You did not. But others do.
I am hoping for 1 specific scenario with the next patch:
Off balanced player can be knocked down with heavy attacks. The question is, if it works the same way as with monsters. Because off balanced monster can be knocked down even by partial heavy attacks.
So the combo I am hoping for, is waiting for curse to explode, then shot a partial fire heavy attack followed by crystal fragments. If this works, then it would almost work as prior to the nerf.
According to @DDuke in another thread medium charged heavy attacks indeed trigger the off-balance knockdown versus players (if I am not mistaken).
These are great news if true !
If you think about it, this almost reverts Sorc back to what it was. Of course with restrictions.
Setting opponents with shields off balance is technically impossible, because concussion cannot proc on them and thus, wall of elements can't be used to set them off balance. But vs everyone else, I am very optimistic It's a setup that I run since a long time anyway.
I can 100% confirm DW medium weaves (even if you hold the button just for like 0,2 seconds) will stun opponent if they're Off Balance (and not CC immune).
I also tested on bow, but didn't get the stun all the time (sometimes it works) - gotta test some more. Staff, haven't tested - gonna test that too (today I hope).Edited by DDuke on January 25, 2018 12:05PM0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.
It's not about the damage, the thing is that destructive touch adds a stun to your setup which saves you a skillslot and a gcd (unless you want to play without stun at all).
But of course it costs a skillslot, that was not needed before the nerf. You either drop force pulse, which I refuse to or you need to remove something else from your bar. I imagine as a non pet Sorcerer, it shouldn't be a big deal to have both.
But even 1 pet puts me in a situation where I can't afford this without loosing out on something important
Also, I find the Asylum staff much better. For offense and utility.
Really all I'm after is, people who claim this is a buff for Sorcs. No
Replacing Force Pulse with Reach would be the thing which I would do actually
I did not say that it's a buff to sorc, I said that it's easier to overcome this nerf if you have a master destro, which many sorcs don't have (including mine).
You did not. But others do.
I am hoping for 1 specific scenario with the next patch:
Off balanced player can be knocked down with heavy attacks. The question is, if it works the same way as with monsters. Because off balanced monster can be knocked down even by partial heavy attacks.
So the combo I am hoping for, is waiting for curse to explode, then shot a partial fire heavy attack followed by crystal fragments. If this works, then it would almost work as prior to the nerf.
According to @DDuke in another thread medium charged heavy attacks indeed trigger the off-balance knockdown versus players (if I am not mistaken).
Can confirm that, even medium attacks which are barely charged stun on offbalance (don't know if that's intended tho).
I imagine it is intended. It has been this way against monster for a long time. And it's not really broken or unbalanced, is it ?
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.
It's not about the damage, the thing is that destructive touch adds a stun to your setup which saves you a skillslot and a gcd (unless you want to play without stun at all).
But of course it costs a skillslot, that was not needed before the nerf. You either drop force pulse, which I refuse to or you need to remove something else from your bar. I imagine as a non pet Sorcerer, it shouldn't be a big deal to have both.
But even 1 pet puts me in a situation where I can't afford this without loosing out on something important
Also, I find the Asylum staff much better. For offense and utility.
Really all I'm after is, people who claim this is a buff for Sorcs. No
Replacing Force Pulse with Reach would be the thing which I would do actually
I did not say that it's a buff to sorc, I said that it's easier to overcome this nerf if you have a master destro, which many sorcs don't have (including mine).
You did not. But others do.
I am hoping for 1 specific scenario with the next patch:
Off balanced player can be knocked down with heavy attacks. The question is, if it works the same way as with monsters. Because off balanced monster can be knocked down even by partial heavy attacks.
So the combo I am hoping for, is waiting for curse to explode, then shot a partial fire heavy attack followed by crystal fragments. If this works, then it would almost work as prior to the nerf.
According to @DDuke in another thread medium charged heavy attacks indeed trigger the off-balance knockdown versus players (if I am not mistaken).
Can confirm that, even medium attacks which are barely charged stun on offbalance (don't know if that's intended tho).
I imagine it is intended. It has been this way against monster for a long time. And it's not really broken or unbalanced, is it ?
Well, it could devalue actual cc's a little. But I'm not sure whether that's a problem or an improvement to overall gameplay.Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.
It's not about the damage, the thing is that destructive touch adds a stun to your setup which saves you a skillslot and a gcd (unless you want to play without stun at all).
But of course it costs a skillslot, that was not needed before the nerf. You either drop force pulse, which I refuse to or you need to remove something else from your bar. I imagine as a non pet Sorcerer, it shouldn't be a big deal to have both.
But even 1 pet puts me in a situation where I can't afford this without loosing out on something important
Also, I find the Asylum staff much better. For offense and utility.
Really all I'm after is, people who claim this is a buff for Sorcs. No
Replacing Force Pulse with Reach would be the thing which I would do actually
I did not say that it's a buff to sorc, I said that it's easier to overcome this nerf if you have a master destro, which many sorcs don't have (including mine).
You did not. But others do.
I am hoping for 1 specific scenario with the next patch:
Off balanced player can be knocked down with heavy attacks. The question is, if it works the same way as with monsters. Because off balanced monster can be knocked down even by partial heavy attacks.
So the combo I am hoping for, is waiting for curse to explode, then shot a partial fire heavy attack followed by crystal fragments. If this works, then it would almost work as prior to the nerf.
According to @DDuke in another thread medium charged heavy attacks indeed trigger the off-balance knockdown versus players (if I am not mistaken).
These are great news if true !
If you think about it, this almost reverts Sorc back to what it was. Of course with restrictions.
Setting opponents with shields off balance is technically impossible, because concussion cannot proc on them and thus, wall of elements can't be used to set them off balance. But vs everyone else, I am very optimistic It's a setup that I run since a long time anyway.
I can 100% confirm DW medium weaves (even if you hold the button just for like 0,2 seconds) will stun opponent if they're Off Balance (and not CC immune).
I also tested on bow, but didn't get the stun all the time (sometimes it works) - gotta test some more. Staff, haven't tested - gonna test that too (today I hope).
I have a few question if you can sacrifise a minute I send you a message. Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.
It's not about the damage, the thing is that destructive touch adds a stun to your setup which saves you a skillslot and a gcd (unless you want to play without stun at all).
But of course it costs a skillslot, that was not needed before the nerf. You either drop force pulse, which I refuse to or you need to remove something else from your bar. I imagine as a non pet Sorcerer, it shouldn't be a big deal to have both.
But even 1 pet puts me in a situation where I can't afford this without loosing out on something important
Also, I find the Asylum staff much better. For offense and utility.
Really all I'm after is, people who claim this is a buff for Sorcs. No
Replacing Force Pulse with Reach would be the thing which I would do actually
I did not say that it's a buff to sorc, I said that it's easier to overcome this nerf if you have a master destro, which many sorcs don't have (including mine).
You did not. But others do.
I am hoping for 1 specific scenario with the next patch:
Off balanced player can be knocked down with heavy attacks. The question is, if it works the same way as with monsters. Because off balanced monster can be knocked down even by partial heavy attacks.
So the combo I am hoping for, is waiting for curse to explode, then shot a partial fire heavy attack followed by crystal fragments. If this works, then it would almost work as prior to the nerf.
According to @DDuke in another thread medium charged heavy attacks indeed trigger the off-balance knockdown versus players (if I am not mistaken).
Can confirm that, even medium attacks which are barely charged stun on offbalance (don't know if that's intended tho).
I imagine it is intended. It has been this way against monster for a long time. And it's not really broken or unbalanced, is it ?
How are you offbalancing a target though as magsorc? Ask them kindly to stand in lightning wall?<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.
It's not about the damage, the thing is that destructive touch adds a stun to your setup which saves you a skillslot and a gcd (unless you want to play without stun at all).
But of course it costs a skillslot, that was not needed before the nerf. You either drop force pulse, which I refuse to or you need to remove something else from your bar. I imagine as a non pet Sorcerer, it shouldn't be a big deal to have both.
But even 1 pet puts me in a situation where I can't afford this without loosing out on something important
Also, I find the Asylum staff much better. For offense and utility.
Really all I'm after is, people who claim this is a buff for Sorcs. No
Replacing Force Pulse with Reach would be the thing which I would do actually
I did not say that it's a buff to sorc, I said that it's easier to overcome this nerf if you have a master destro, which many sorcs don't have (including mine).
You did not. But others do.
I am hoping for 1 specific scenario with the next patch:
Off balanced player can be knocked down with heavy attacks. The question is, if it works the same way as with monsters. Because off balanced monster can be knocked down even by partial heavy attacks.
So the combo I am hoping for, is waiting for curse to explode, then shot a partial fire heavy attack followed by crystal fragments. If this works, then it would almost work as prior to the nerf.
According to @DDuke in another thread medium charged heavy attacks indeed trigger the off-balance knockdown versus players (if I am not mistaken).
Can confirm that, even medium attacks which are barely charged stun on offbalance (don't know if that's intended tho).
I imagine it is intended. It has been this way against monster for a long time. And it's not really broken or unbalanced, is it ?
How are you offbalancing a target though as magsorc? Ask them kindly to stand in lightning wall?
No. You concuss them and as soon as you cast wall of elements, they are set off balance. You don't just put it somewhere and hope for the best You use it actively. Wall of elements is my favorite spell in the entire game, thanks to how versatily it is.
It's one of few, if not the only damage over time ability, that can constantly proc weapon enchants and poison with each tick It is great indirect damage when you are forced to play defensive
It can set enemies off balance
I use it to hunt down cloaking Nightblades
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.
It's not about the damage, the thing is that destructive touch adds a stun to your setup which saves you a skillslot and a gcd (unless you want to play without stun at all).
But of course it costs a skillslot, that was not needed before the nerf. You either drop force pulse, which I refuse to or you need to remove something else from your bar. I imagine as a non pet Sorcerer, it shouldn't be a big deal to have both.
But even 1 pet puts me in a situation where I can't afford this without loosing out on something important
Also, I find the Asylum staff much better. For offense and utility.
Really all I'm after is, people who claim this is a buff for Sorcs. No
Replacing Force Pulse with Reach would be the thing which I would do actually
I did not say that it's a buff to sorc, I said that it's easier to overcome this nerf if you have a master destro, which many sorcs don't have (including mine).
You did not. But others do.
I am hoping for 1 specific scenario with the next patch:
Off balanced player can be knocked down with heavy attacks. The question is, if it works the same way as with monsters. Because off balanced monster can be knocked down even by partial heavy attacks.
So the combo I am hoping for, is waiting for curse to explode, then shot a partial fire heavy attack followed by crystal fragments. If this works, then it would almost work as prior to the nerf.
According to @DDuke in another thread medium charged heavy attacks indeed trigger the off-balance knockdown versus players (if I am not mistaken).
Can confirm that, even medium attacks which are barely charged stun on offbalance (don't know if that's intended tho).
I imagine it is intended. It has been this way against monster for a long time. And it's not really broken or unbalanced, is it ?
How are you offbalancing a target though as magsorc? Ask them kindly to stand in lightning wall?
No. You concuss them and as soon as you cast wall of elements, they are set off balance. You don't just put it somewhere and hope for the best You use it actively. Wall of elements is my favorite spell in the entire game, thanks to how versatily it is.
It's one of few, if not the only damage over time ability, that can constantly proc weapon enchants and poison with each tick It is great indirect damage when you are forced to play defensive
It can set enemies off balance
I use it to hunt down cloaking Nightblades
I dislike it against competent range players and for playing ranged ^^.
I´d would also require me to drop firestaff or resto - which both don´t warrant it´s use atm.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.
It's not about the damage, the thing is that destructive touch adds a stun to your setup which saves you a skillslot and a gcd (unless you want to play without stun at all).
But of course it costs a skillslot, that was not needed before the nerf. You either drop force pulse, which I refuse to or you need to remove something else from your bar. I imagine as a non pet Sorcerer, it shouldn't be a big deal to have both.
But even 1 pet puts me in a situation where I can't afford this without loosing out on something important
Also, I find the Asylum staff much better. For offense and utility.
Really all I'm after is, people who claim this is a buff for Sorcs. No
Replacing Force Pulse with Reach would be the thing which I would do actually
I did not say that it's a buff to sorc, I said that it's easier to overcome this nerf if you have a master destro, which many sorcs don't have (including mine).
You did not. But others do.
I am hoping for 1 specific scenario with the next patch:
Off balanced player can be knocked down with heavy attacks. The question is, if it works the same way as with monsters. Because off balanced monster can be knocked down even by partial heavy attacks.
So the combo I am hoping for, is waiting for curse to explode, then shot a partial fire heavy attack followed by crystal fragments. If this works, then it would almost work as prior to the nerf.
According to @DDuke in another thread medium charged heavy attacks indeed trigger the off-balance knockdown versus players (if I am not mistaken).
Can confirm that, even medium attacks which are barely charged stun on offbalance (don't know if that's intended tho).
I imagine it is intended. It has been this way against monster for a long time. And it's not really broken or unbalanced, is it ?
How are you offbalancing a target though as magsorc? Ask them kindly to stand in lightning wall?
No. You concuss them and as soon as you cast wall of elements, they are set off balance. You don't just put it somewhere and hope for the best You use it actively. Wall of elements is my favorite spell in the entire game, thanks to how versatily it is.
It's one of few, if not the only damage over time ability, that can constantly proc weapon enchants and poison with each tick It is great indirect damage when you are forced to play defensive
It can set enemies off balance
I use it to hunt down cloaking Nightblades
I dislike it against competent range players and for playing ranged ^^.
I´d would also require me to drop firestaff or resto - which both don´t warrant it´s use atm.
Indeed. You need to drop your resto staff and I have never used resto staves anyway, I highly dislike them.
It's your choice I'm loving this ability and would never consider dropping it. I actually could put something from my front bar on my 2nd bar and switch it with wall of elements. But then I would also loose elemental drain Edited by Dracane on January 25, 2018 12:26PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.
It's not about the damage, the thing is that destructive touch adds a stun to your setup which saves you a skillslot and a gcd (unless you want to play without stun at all).
But of course it costs a skillslot, that was not needed before the nerf. You either drop force pulse, which I refuse to or you need to remove something else from your bar. I imagine as a non pet Sorcerer, it shouldn't be a big deal to have both.
But even 1 pet puts me in a situation where I can't afford this without loosing out on something important
Also, I find the Asylum staff much better. For offense and utility.
Really all I'm after is, people who claim this is a buff for Sorcs. No
The thing with reach is that it's a suitable replacement for pulse if used with master's staff. Just because you refuse to slot it instead of pulse as opposed to in conjunction with doesn't make it any less good.
Peace out, #HighElvesRule !!!0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I feel so bad for magsorcs. They deserve frag stun + dmg back. And after all those sustain changes I feel readjusting the bolt escape penalty would be reasonable as well. Maybe they would stop running shackle + lich cockroach builds and play builds that actually can be killed 1v1 in reasonable time.
That moment when one of the best available dmg builds (balanced dmg + sustain) gets called a cockroach buildFrags needs stun+the extra damage. Mines needs exponential damage increase per mine. Streak needs a lot of cost reduce, but some way for melee to catch up that isn't gapcloser spam.
streak doesn't get cost reduc until Shade can be places more than 8m from where you stand. It also doesn't get cost reduction until MagPlar can have minor expedition inside their ritual or something like that
Shade is a bug that may or may not get fixed. Templars are not designed to be mobile. Sorcs are, yet they get punished for moving and completely countered by any immobile class with a gapcloser.
In the past I'm pretty sure that was the vision the Devs had for Mag Sorcs. They were a highly mobile class thanks to Streaking everywhere and had weaker shields in general, but didn't get oneshot when their shields were down. Streak now punishes your Magicka for using it (even when it fails to work), and if your shields fall off, you get killed almost immediately by decent players.
Add to that that unlike every other class in the game, we have a tremendous windup for our burst. We need four global cooldowns to prepare, and if only one is wasted, our burst won't kill. Other classes can just wait for their stunning ult and use their on-demand burst skill, like Wrecking Blow or Merciless.
Also, we have zero, ZERO sustained pressure.
With master's staff reach is better than shock in any way possible except for the fact that it can do a tiny bit more damage if built for it and can be reflected whereas shock can not. So yeah, reach is actually very competitive
Edit: *** quoted the wrong guy, meant to quote our "queen" over here
You should be banned for your annoying provocations.
What's your problem with me ?
Nothing luv. I dare not have a problem with the altmeri queen herself!! #HighElvesRule
On a more serious note, it annoys me that you barge on like you know everything when all you do is play an imperial physique emperor build with 4 pets (group member included) all day long.
And where was I even wrong ? People act like destructive touch is super hot and better than force pulse in any way, which it's not. Sure it's competitive. But neither do I have space for this and I want the old crystal shard back instead.
It's not about the damage, the thing is that destructive touch adds a stun to your setup which saves you a skillslot and a gcd (unless you want to play without stun at all).
But of course it costs a skillslot, that was not needed before the nerf. You either drop force pulse, which I refuse to or you need to remove something else from your bar. I imagine as a non pet Sorcerer, it shouldn't be a big deal to have both.
But even 1 pet puts me in a situation where I can't afford this without loosing out on something important
Also, I find the Asylum staff much better. For offense and utility.
Really all I'm after is, people who claim this is a buff for Sorcs. No
The thing with reach is that it's a suitable replacement for pulse if used with master's staff. Just because you refuse to slot it instead of pulse as opposed to in conjunction with doesn't make it any less good.
Peace out, #HighElvesRule !!!
Stop quoting my facebook quote over and over. I will not suffer this ! Edited by Dracane on January 25, 2018 12:59PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0