usmcjdking wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Elder Dragon, World in Ruin and Iron Skin are incredibly niche passives that offer stam DK nothing in general.

All 3 of those need a rework. They don't need to be buffed to the gills, but they do need to be applicable. Templar runs into the same issue.

What about combustion? Do you think a lame passive tied to RGN offeres anything to StamDK or MagDK?

It is the crappiest passive of all. All the others can be buld towards something (health regen tank/AoE poison-flame DD/Permablocker)... how do you build towards Combustion?

It's a DoT that can't be applied to 20% races in Cyro: Dunmer (burning status) or Argonians (Poison status)

Combustion isn't great but it's somewhat useful. It has it's place unlike a vast majority of Templar passives in the case of stamplar. The 3 aforementioned ones are entirely useless in PVP that lend to absolutely no variety in how stam DK plays.

In what sense it's useful besides an extra tick to proc skoria?

Let me rephrase: Sorcs do have an extra 7% dmg to all phys and shock dmg. DKs have an extra dmg on the statuses above mentioned. Sorcs DO have increased dmg on ticks of shock and physical skills. DKs have none of that.

Neither your venomous claw, nor the Noxious breath has a dmg increase with that passive. Only the poison status applied by Lethal arrow is effected by it. Not the dmg


+

usmcjdking wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Elder Dragon, World in Ruin and Iron Skin are incredibly niche passives that offer stam DK nothing in general.

All 3 of those need a rework. They don't need to be buffed to the gills, but they do need to be applicable. Templar runs into the same issue.

What about combustion? Do you think a lame passive tied to RGN offeres anything to StamDK or MagDK?

It is the crappiest passive of all. All the others can be buld towards something (health regen tank/AoE poison-flame DD/Permablocker)... how do you build towards Combustion?

It's a DoT that can't be applied to 20% races in Cyro: Dunmer (burning status) or Argonians (Poison status)

Combustion isn't great but it's somewhat useful. It has it's place unlike a vast majority of Templar passives in the case of stamplar. The 3 aforementioned ones are entirely useless in PVP that lend to absolutely no variety in how stam DK plays.

In what sense it's useful besides an extra tick to proc skoria?

Let me rephrase: Sorcs do have an extra 7% dmg to all phys and shock dmg. DKs have an extra dmg on the statuses above mentioned. Sorcs DO have increased dmg on ticks of shock and physical skills. DKs have none of that.

Neither your venomous claw, nor the Noxious breath has a dmg increase with that passive. Only the poison status applied by Lethal arrow is effected by it. Not the dmg


+

Burning and Poisoned status have relatively strong tooltip damage. A 66% increase on them is a formidable source of damage.

burning is veery very strong status effect indeed.
Poisoned? not so much.

Xvorg wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Dedricus wrote: »

Aerem wrote: »

The changes to BR were not a buff to Mdk, far from it, I would take the old battle roar in an instant.

Considering Magicka DKs makes BETTER use of stamina than Stamina DKs make of their magicka, it could be considered a small buff. Even then, the HH change definitely gave Mag DKs even more stamina to play with.

Let's not derail here. The post is about Stam DKs getting more attention, not crapping on Mag DKs

No way... try to dodgeroll, block and break free with a mDK... or even better, try to catch a stam/msorc enemy with your pittiful stam pool

The stam dk can't catch them either. My magdk can block longer than my stamdk while having much more damage. Why would i want to dodge on a magdk anyway unless it's to get out of a root which everyone should have enough stam.

But again, you are pigeoholed into S/B mDK, and that's a stupid design for a class. Granted, mDK currently has much more potential than stamDK, but that has more to do with the sets mDK has access which include BSW and Sun.

What about stamDK: 7th Legion? Better on stamplar. Ravager? Way better on stamplar and stamblade.

Anything that buff poison dmg: Morag Tong? Just a pityful 10% extra dmg that becomes a 5% due to BR. Swamp Raider? You need not only use a magicka skill to proc the bonus to poison dmg, but also DO DMG with a magicka skill (IDK if magicka DoTs count) and the buff is a shame, Poisonous serpent? A joke.

Yes, stamDK lacks a class spamable, but instead of making a stam whip, I'd just make venemous claw a burst skill instead of a dot, and I'd buff Morag Tong while making a rework on Swamp Raider (imho it should be a stam version of BSW or something similar)

Foo helps that set btw but you are right

Yup, FOO is an option for a melee stam DK, but what about a bow DK? Bow = poison... even the only reliable ranged AoE poison skill, buffed through WiR and the only way to get poison status without praying to the almighty RGN god... Do I have to slot Entropy? Soul trap? Stone giant to make the damned set work?

Funny thing? A stamblade can do a way better use of that set just slotting cipple, a bow and relentless focus

Stupid design done by stupid developers. "Play as you want", they said...

Lol easy wear tremorscale and use the magic range taunt

Xvorg wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Dedricus wrote: »

Aerem wrote: »

The changes to BR were not a buff to Mdk, far from it, I would take the old battle roar in an instant.

Considering Magicka DKs makes BETTER use of stamina than Stamina DKs make of their magicka, it could be considered a small buff. Even then, the HH change definitely gave Mag DKs even more stamina to play with.

Let's not derail here. The post is about Stam DKs getting more attention, not crapping on Mag DKs

No way... try to dodgeroll, block and break free with a mDK... or even better, try to catch a stam/msorc enemy with your pittiful stam pool

The stam dk can't catch them either. My magdk can block longer than my stamdk while having much more damage. Why would i want to dodge on a magdk anyway unless it's to get out of a root which everyone should have enough stam.

But again, you are pigeoholed into S/B mDK, and that's a stupid design for a class. Granted, mDK currently has much more potential than stamDK, but that has more to do with the sets mDK has access which include BSW and Sun.

What about stamDK: 7th Legion? Better on stamplar. Ravager? Way better on stamplar and stamblade.

Anything that buff poison dmg: Morag Tong? Just a pityful 10% extra dmg that becomes a 5% due to BR. Swamp Raider? You need not only use a magicka skill to proc the bonus to poison dmg, but also DO DMG with a magicka skill (IDK if magicka DoTs count) and the buff is a shame, Poisonous serpent? A joke.

Yes, stamDK lacks a class spamable, but instead of making a stam whip, I'd just make venemous claw a burst skill instead of a dot, and I'd buff Morag Tong while making a rework on Swamp Raider (imho it should be a stam version of BSW or something similar)

Foo helps that set btw but you are right

Yup, FOO is an option for a melee stam DK, but what about a bow DK? Bow = poison... even the only reliable ranged AoE poison skill, buffed through WiR and the only way to get poison status without praying to the almighty RGN god... Do I have to slot Entropy? Soul trap? Stone giant to make the damned set work?

Funny thing? A stamblade can do a way better use of that set just slotting cipple, a bow and relentless focus

Stupid design done by stupid developers. "Play as you want", they said...

Lol easy wear tremorscale and use the magic range taunt

That's the best part, any sorc does that way better because of the passive that increases (all) physical dmg

Well everything is going to do better damage than a sDK. We rely on sets, which is the problem.

Xvorg wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Elder Dragon, World in Ruin and Iron Skin are incredibly niche passives that offer stam DK nothing in general.

All 3 of those need a rework. They don't need to be buffed to the gills, but they do need to be applicable. Templar runs into the same issue.

What about combustion? Do you think a lame passive tied to RGN offeres anything to StamDK or MagDK?

It is the crappiest passive of all. All the others can be buld towards something (health regen tank/AoE poison-flame DD/Permablocker)... how do you build towards Combustion?

It's a DoT that can't be applied to 20% races in Cyro: Dunmer (burning status) or Argonians (Poison status)

Combustion isn't great but it's somewhat useful. It has it's place unlike a vast majority of Templar passives in the case of stamplar. The 3 aforementioned ones are entirely useless in PVP that lend to absolutely no variety in how stam DK plays.

In what sense it's useful besides an extra tick to proc skoria?

Let me rephrase: Sorcs do have an extra 7% dmg to all phys and shock dmg. DKs have an extra dmg on the statuses above mentioned. Sorcs DO have increased dmg on ticks of shock and physical skills. DKs have none of that.

Neither your venomous claw, nor the Noxious breath has a dmg increase with that passive. Only the poison status applied by Lethal arrow is effected by it. Not the dmg


+

Burning and Poisoned status have relatively strong tooltip damage. A 66% increase on them is a formidable source of damage.

burning is veery very strong status effect indeed.
Poisoned? not so much.

The point is that poison and burning statuses are generated by a RGN. You can't know when they will be applied. It is nothing like you have a increased chance, is just extra dmg in the form of a DoT which in PvP is the weakest kind of dmg.

I'm glad you guys are having this discussion. This is the kind of things the devs need to see!

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Elder Dragon, World in Ruin and Iron Skin are incredibly niche passives that offer stam DK nothing in general.

All 3 of those need a rework. They don't need to be buffed to the gills, but they do need to be applicable. Templar runs into the same issue.

What about combustion? Do you think a lame passive tied to RGN offeres anything to StamDK or MagDK?

It is the crappiest passive of all. All the others can be buld towards something (health regen tank/AoE poison-flame DD/Permablocker)... how do you build towards Combustion?

It's a DoT that can't be applied to 20% races in Cyro: Dunmer (burning status) or Argonians (Poison status)

Combustion isn't great but it's somewhat useful. It has it's place unlike a vast majority of Templar passives in the case of stamplar. The 3 aforementioned ones are entirely useless in PVP that lend to absolutely no variety in how stam DK plays.

In what sense it's useful besides an extra tick to proc skoria?

Let me rephrase: Sorcs do have an extra 7% dmg to all phys and shock dmg. DKs have an extra dmg on the statuses above mentioned. Sorcs DO have increased dmg on ticks of shock and physical skills. DKs have none of that.

Neither your venomous claw, nor the Noxious breath has a dmg increase with that passive. Only the poison status applied by Lethal arrow is effected by it. Not the dmg


+

Burning and Poisoned status have relatively strong tooltip damage. A 66% increase on them is a formidable source of damage.

burning is veery very strong status effect indeed.
Poisoned? not so much.

The point is that poison and burning statuses are generated by a RGN. You can't know when they will be applied. It is nothing like you have a increased chance, is just extra dmg in the form of a DoT which in PvP is the weakest kind of dmg.

So the passive itself is ruled by random.

There's another passive which also works in random and that's sorc's implosion. Though more dificult to get (I aknowledge that) is way stronger.

I spent 2 years believing that passive increased DoT dmg and in my mind that had sense on a class that works on DoTs... but it's nothing like that. It's just the status... as it's concussion, or diseased, not the dmg associated to the DoT.

I'm quite sure that any PvE stam and mag DK without using that passive is gonna do similar dmg. Maybe a little less but not somethig like losing 5K dps on a skeleton

Well, you're right, but either way its a complete joke compared to what sorcs have.
Would I like combustion do buff dots instead of effects? No.
more dot power is the last thing stamDk needs. The class is all about dots and its just not working. At all.

Agreed. Too many ways to avoid or mitigate DOT damage.

Ladislao wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Elder Dragon, World in Ruin and Iron Skin are incredibly niche passives that offer stam DK nothing in general.

All 3 of those need a rework. They don't need to be buffed to the gills, but they do need to be applicable. Templar runs into the same issue.

What about combustion? Do you think a lame passive tied to RGN offeres anything to StamDK or MagDK?

It is the crappiest passive of all. All the others can be buld towards something (health regen tank/AoE poison-flame DD/Permablocker)... how do you build towards Combustion?

It's a DoT that can't be applied to 20% races in Cyro: Dunmer (burning status) or Argonians (Poison status)

Combustion isn't great but it's somewhat useful. It has it's place unlike a vast majority of Templar passives in the case of stamplar. The 3 aforementioned ones are entirely useless in PVP that lend to absolutely no variety in how stam DK plays.

In what sense it's useful besides an extra tick to proc skoria?

Let me rephrase: Sorcs do have an extra 7% dmg to all phys and shock dmg. DKs have an extra dmg on the statuses above mentioned. Sorcs DO have increased dmg on ticks of shock and physical skills. DKs have none of that.

Neither your venomous claw, nor the Noxious breath has a dmg increase with that passive. Only the poison status applied by Lethal arrow is effected by it. Not the dmg


+

Burning and Poisoned status have relatively strong tooltip damage. A 66% increase on them is a formidable source of damage.

burning is veery very strong status effect indeed.
Poisoned? not so much.

What is the basis of this opinion?

basically, vampires.PvP is full of vamps. less fire resistance makes burning a really dangerous status effect for them.

And the damage burning effect does is slightly higher than poisoned, for some odd reason. and no, Im not playing a vampire and I don't play a race that has poison resistance passives.

my experience is that burning always hits harder than poisoned, I don't know why. I'm not the math guy.

And outside of that, mDk does almost purely fire damage so the chance of applying that effect is really high, compared to sDk which only has 2 poison dots.

either way, combustion is a total joke for stamDK and I would ditch it for literally any other damage passive from other classes.
Tho mDks seem to proc burning very often, so I don't know how it would affect them.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Ladislao wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Elder Dragon, World in Ruin and Iron Skin are incredibly niche passives that offer stam DK nothing in general.

All 3 of those need a rework. They don't need to be buffed to the gills, but they do need to be applicable. Templar runs into the same issue.

What about combustion? Do you think a lame passive tied to RGN offeres anything to StamDK or MagDK?

It is the crappiest passive of all. All the others can be buld towards something (health regen tank/AoE poison-flame DD/Permablocker)... how do you build towards Combustion?

It's a DoT that can't be applied to 20% races in Cyro: Dunmer (burning status) or Argonians (Poison status)

Combustion isn't great but it's somewhat useful. It has it's place unlike a vast majority of Templar passives in the case of stamplar. The 3 aforementioned ones are entirely useless in PVP that lend to absolutely no variety in how stam DK plays.

In what sense it's useful besides an extra tick to proc skoria?

Let me rephrase: Sorcs do have an extra 7% dmg to all phys and shock dmg. DKs have an extra dmg on the statuses above mentioned. Sorcs DO have increased dmg on ticks of shock and physical skills. DKs have none of that.

Neither your venomous claw, nor the Noxious breath has a dmg increase with that passive. Only the poison status applied by Lethal arrow is effected by it. Not the dmg


+

Burning and Poisoned status have relatively strong tooltip damage. A 66% increase on them is a formidable source of damage.

burning is veery very strong status effect indeed.
Poisoned? not so much.

What is the basis of this opinion?

basically, vampires.PvP is full of vamps. less fire resistance makes burning a really dangerous status effect for them.

And the damage burning effect does is slightly higher than poisoned, for some odd reason. and no, Im not playing a vampire and I don't play a race that has poison resistance passives.

my experience is that burning always hits harder than poisoned, I don't know why. I'm not the math guy.

And outside of that, mDk does almost purely fire damage so the chance of applying that effect is really high, compared to sDk which only has 2 poison dots.

either way, combustion is a total joke for stamDK and I would ditch it for literally any other damage passive from other classes.
Tho mDks seem to proc burning very often, so I don't know how it would affect them.

Burning status effect and STAM DKs.

I think you answered your own question.

Here are somethings i think will help pvp stamina DK

Elder dragon - instead of health recovery per ability slotted, I would like to see something more useful. Critical healing amount and critical healing chance would be a nice change. Could also go with max health increase by 5/10% percent per ability active. Not slotted.

Inhale - I believe a stamina morph of this skill would be nice(deep breath?), causing poison damage would go a long way. It would probably be too weak still. Perhaps also granting minor protection reducing damage taken by 8 percent during its duration. Perhaps removing the heal associated with it but buffing the damage done based on damage taken during its duration. More damage taken = more damage done/reflected back to the attacker.

Spiked armor - While most use Volatile armor I think this could be changed into giving more damage returned per attack. A way to do this is to give the returned amount to deal physical(poison?/bleed) damage. Returning a % of the damage taken to the attacker instead of a flat amount. The stronger the attack the more that gets reflected. Also, it should have perhaps a (20ish?) percent chance to reflect 1 range ability if blocked causing stun for 4 seconds. Its AoE is useful to stamina DK for pulling a nb out of cloak because revealing flare is impractical to run on a stamDK.

Reflective scales - I think we can change reflective plate to cost stamina instead of 4 projectiles in 4 seconds ...I would much rather see perhaps 2 (or 3) projectiles reflected but at 15 to 8 seconds. With snare removal/immunity for 5 seconds(if not then have it grant major expedition for 6 seconds.) or hell just turn this one into a stamina ability and that'll do for now. At this point I would take anything.

I will update farther with any new idea's....

Combustion could be changed to giving back resources. For example, when I hear the word combustion i think of what happens inside engines it basically burns fuel and converts it into mechanical energy. So i think this should be changed into when you reapply a poison or flame damage skill you increase your stamina and magicka recovery by 10/20%.

World in ruin - could be changed to giving back ultimate instead. When you take Critical damage you gain additional 6 ultimate while in combat once every 12 seconds. 12 Second cooldown.

I do believe the stam DK is in a really tough spot honestly.... I doubt they will adress it ...

Balancing the Stam DK PVE DPS with PVP Burst is going to be hard to pull off with out making Stam DK over the top in PVE

If you make the Stam DK much more survivable then you will promote the BLOCKING POTATOE builds out there that has gotton our class nerfed to hell....

Then there is the other question how will stam buffs affect the magicka version of the DK... RIght now the magicka version is in a better position then the stam version....

Also finding a way to make a Stam DK more useful to the group ... other then a block bot

People alway bring up a DK surviability but OMG on my nightblade I survive so easy l roll dodge DARK CLOAK spam for the win and do more dps ... On my sorc Im super fast and have a ton of mobility and do more dps.... On my Templar I have sick DPS espeacially when running with a CC class and yes I can get away better but mobility is very close to my DK... On my Warden I feel much like my DK did but have all these tools that I can even put them all on my bar lol !!!! My Warden does everything my DK does but better ....

SO as it currently stands the DK is considered to be the weakest in group contribution and solo play atm ..... You can still play this charactor as I still do but you would be better off if you played something else !

After this patch if the stam DK is not fixed then Im not sure what Im going to do....I have played this toon since release ... I have always been a 1 class type of person ....

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

I do believe the stam DK is in a really tough spot honestly.... I doubt they will adress it ...

Balancing the Stam DK PVE DPS with PVP Burst is going to be hard to pull off with out making Stam DK over the top in PVE

If you make the Stam DK much more survivable then you will promote the BLOCKING POTATOE builds out there that has gotton our class nerfed to hell....

Then there is the other question how will stam buffs affect the magicka version of the DK... RIght now the magicka version is in a better position then the stam version....

Also finding a way to make a Stam DK more useful to the group ... other then a block bot

People alway bring up a DK surviability but OMG on my nightblade I survive so easy l roll dodge DARK CLOAK spam for the win and do more dps ... On my sorc Im super fast and have a ton of mobility and do more dps.... On my Templar I have sick DPS espeacially when running with a CC class and yes I can get away better but mobility is very close to my DK... On my Warden I feel much like my DK did but have all these tools that I can even put them all on my bar lol !!!! My Warden does everything my DK does but better ....

SO as it currently stands the DK is considered to be the weakest in group contribution and solo play atm ..... You can still play this charactor as I still do but you would be better off if you played something else !

After this patch if the stam DK is not fixed then Im not sure what Im going to do....I have played this toon since release ... I have always been a 1 class type of person ....

+1

It's not gonna be fixed this patch. I've lost a lot of interest because Stam dk is my favorite. Been on mag dk because it's way better and I like him to however there are so many useless skills. I would love a poison whip, maybe have green dragon blood be stamina, inhale stamina morph would be cool too. Anything for more damage.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

Here are somethings i think will help pvp stamina DK

Elder dragon - instead of health recovery per ability slotted, I would like to see something more useful. Critical healing amount and critical healing chance would be a nice change. Could also go with max health increase by 5/10% percent per ability active. Not slotted.

Inhale - I believe a stamina morph of this skill would be nice(deep breath?), causing poison damage would go a long way. It would probably be too weak still. Perhaps also granting minor protection reducing damage taken by 8 percent during its duration. Perhaps removing the heal associated with it but buffing the damage done based on damage taken during its duration. More damage taken = more damage done/reflected back to the attacker.

Spiked armor - While most use Volatile armor I think this could be changed into giving more damage returned per attack. A way to do this is to give the returned amount to deal physical(poison?/bleed) damage. Returning a % of the damage taken to the attacker instead of a flat amount. The stronger the attack the more that gets reflected. Also, it should have perhaps a (20ish?) percent chance to reflect 1 range ability if blocked causing stun for 4 seconds. Its AoE is useful to stamina DK for pulling a nb out of cloak because revealing flare is impractical to run on a stamDK.

Reflective scales - I think we can change reflective plate to cost stamina instead of 4 projectiles in 4 seconds ...I would much rather see perhaps 2 (or 3) projectiles reflected but at 15 to 8 seconds. With snare removal/immunity for 5 seconds(if not then have it grant major expedition for 6 seconds.) or hell just turn this one into a stamina ability and that'll do for now. At this point I would take anything.

I will update farther with any new idea's....

Combustion could be changed to giving back resources. For example, when I hear the word combustion i think of what happens inside engines it basically burns fuel and converts it into mechanical energy. So i think this should be changed into when you reapply a poison or flame damage skill you increase your stamina and magicka recovery by 10/20%.

World in ruin - could be changed to giving back ultimate instead. When you take Critical damage you gain additional 6 ultimate while in combat once every 12 seconds. 12 Second cooldown.

This would make sDK an even better turtle tank in PvP, without solving the real issue.
Which is lack of burst and dots getting countered easily.

Combustion and WiR are damage passives and they should be about doing damage, not sustain.
Earthen heart is the DK's sustain tree, which is nerfed to a point its totally unreliable.

Stamina wings is something I'm suggesting since I made this forum account and it would really help with snare removal, or a speed buff.

Figured someone might of said that, so I actually took these passives as sort of a spin-off of what the warden had in similar trees. Basically, you just told me that the only way to play warden is to be a turtle tank. Just compare it.

So now lets be clear to zenimax and stop asking for the impossible.

We are not a burst class- so get over it and get it through your head. We are not the burst class.... you want it to be, zenimax has obviously made it clear based on the fact that they refuse to give this class burst. So the answer is no, they're not getting burst in the form of a class skill spammable(later on this note). Dots do get countered easily by... cleanse, purge etc... so just reapply? good luck cleansing them 60 times in a single minute w/major/minor defile and cost poisons...

What are we, we are a dot/resource sustain through ultimate/ tanky(not full tank) class. So instead of advocating for things that zenimax will never do, advocate for things that might make sense in their eyes.

Common counters include a well timed volitile burst(in referance to cloak), which could use a damage buff but ofcourse people wouldnt agree to it because "it jst promotez turtlez tank arrrh" ... so you would deny a buff any buff if it doesnt fit your particular play style but would benifit every DK across the board? Got it. Clearly bias.

ALTHOUGH everything i listed so far basically helps it with what the DK needs which is resource sustain, we need a form of ultimate regeneration that isnt tied to a nerf... our burst comes in the form of ultimate which is also tied into our resource sustain.

So what is next we need another way to gain utlimate ...

Zenimax wants us to use dots in pvp? ok sure be happy with your poison passive damage passive its weak as hell anyways... like seriously what are they going to do buff it by 10/20(which is the most they could do if they EVER considered it) percent so we can all be bow spammers? No thanks dots are weak and they're in one way useful pressure when you stack them with minor/major defile 45 percent heal debuff so you would have to buff dots by like almost 50 percent for them to be useful on their own. Which THAT is not happening... so instead I ask zenimax to help me keep the dots up by increasing the sustain to be able to keep it up. Which will in turn help most DK with regeneration. (comparable to a wardens passive flourish) doubt the resource increase on this will help a turtle tank that is holding block cause they likely DONT care about stamina sustain. Magicka? doubt its a game changer for most of them but it would help stamina dk. BUT NOT BUFFING THEIR DPS IN PVE! So yeah it works as a regen passive not a damage passive.

Taking critical damage isnt something I want to do, but since I have NO OTHER CHOICE but to take damage might as well gain ultimate for being beaten to a pulp. Sure, we can stack impen and stuff but its risk vs reward here for this passive to be usefull.....This is comparable to having minor heroism which would be nice to have without being forced into running SnB for it. But well lets just keep the useless word in ruin. Its atleast a damage passive that doesnt really make sense. Go ahead. (BTW if you did the math 60/12 = 5(ticks per minute) which would translate into 30 additional ultimate gain per minute similar to minor heroism.) But there is another catch you have to be able to actually live a minute while taking critical damage for the best case senario. Works for me... promoting sustain to actually out sustain enemies.

I added a stamina reflective scales and to fish out bias in people and its clear to me that you probably like that idea because it allows you to have snare removal/escape but also allows for rally. Let me tell you that if a turtle tank uses these two things they would be even HARDER to kill and well you took the bait. So surely you must have a problem with that idea too.

A morph of spiked armor which increases healing by 12 percent due to passives gives a buff but a crap dot? How about we have a morph that does poison/bleed damage that REFLECTS back a percentage of the attack back instead of a flat amount. DD's in pve are not taking direct damage all the time so it wouldn't really be that much of a pve buff. The skill tree is all about reflecting damage back but it does a poor job at it to be honest. And a chance of reflecting a single casted ability on a counter play move like block, and its a percentage chance so if you reflect a light attack ice shard(similar to defensive posture but a weaker version of it) oh well but at least you have a chance from tactically blocking an attack to reflect a single attack instead of being a practice dummy. oh yeah let me spam this on a turtle tank for that 20 percent chance for a free reflect on a buff skill? Let it proc on Roll dodge cause well your rolling how does it make sense to roll and reflect something, even when you have wings up....like how many people roll with wings up? Also roll dodging is something where the repeated dodging of an attack would increase its cost. But blocking a light attack from someone who wants to light attack your wings away comes at a potential cost to be countered with a stun. KEEPING IN MIND that blocking any attack will reset your stamina regeneration for a full 2(TWO) seconds before it starts to tick again.

Inhale could be the delayed burst similar to a wardens bug attack that come off the ground(aka subterranean assault) but instead of it inflicting major breach/fracture let it do the opposite and grant minor toughness.

I really dont know what the issue would be with my suggestion for elder dragon... my suggestion is on the lines of the warden (maturation passive).

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

Here are somethings i think will help pvp stamina DK

Elder dragon - instead of health recovery per ability slotted, I would like to see something more useful. Critical healing amount and critical healing chance would be a nice change. Could also go with max health increase by 5/10% percent per ability active. Not slotted.

Inhale - I believe a stamina morph of this skill would be nice(deep breath?), causing poison damage would go a long way. It would probably be too weak still. Perhaps also granting minor protection reducing damage taken by 8 percent during its duration. Perhaps removing the heal associated with it but buffing the damage done based on damage taken during its duration. More damage taken = more damage done/reflected back to the attacker.

Spiked armor - While most use Volatile armor I think this could be changed into giving more damage returned per attack. A way to do this is to give the returned amount to deal physical(poison?/bleed) damage. Returning a % of the damage taken to the attacker instead of a flat amount. The stronger the attack the more that gets reflected. Also, it should have perhaps a (20ish?) percent chance to reflect 1 range ability if blocked causing stun for 4 seconds. Its AoE is useful to stamina DK for pulling a nb out of cloak because revealing flare is impractical to run on a stamDK.

Reflective scales - I think we can change reflective plate to cost stamina instead of 4 projectiles in 4 seconds ...I would much rather see perhaps 2 (or 3) projectiles reflected but at 15 to 8 seconds. With snare removal/immunity for 5 seconds(if not then have it grant major expedition for 6 seconds.) or hell just turn this one into a stamina ability and that'll do for now. At this point I would take anything.

I will update farther with any new idea's....

Combustion could be changed to giving back resources. For example, when I hear the word combustion i think of what happens inside engines it basically burns fuel and converts it into mechanical energy. So i think this should be changed into when you reapply a poison or flame damage skill you increase your stamina and magicka recovery by 10/20%.

World in ruin - could be changed to giving back ultimate instead. When you take Critical damage you gain additional 6 ultimate while in combat once every 12 seconds. 12 Second cooldown.

This would make sDK an even better turtle tank in PvP, without solving the real issue.
Which is lack of burst and dots getting countered easily.

Combustion and WiR are damage passives and they should be about doing damage, not sustain.
Earthen heart is the DK's sustain tree, which is nerfed to a point its totally unreliable.

Stamina wings is something I'm suggesting since I made this forum account and it would really help with snare removal, or a speed buff.

Figured someone might of said that, so I actually took these passives as sort of a spin-off of what the warden had in similar trees. Basically, you just told me that the only way to play warden is to be a turtle tank. Just compare it.

So now lets be clear to zenimax and stop asking for the impossible.

We are not a burst class- so get over it and get it through your head. We are not the burst class.... you want it to be, zenimax has obviously made it clear based on the fact that they refuse to give this class burst. So the answer is no, they're not getting burst in the form of a class skill spammable(later on this note). Dots do get countered easily by... cleanse, purge etc... so just reapply? good luck cleansing them 60 times in a single minute w/major/minor defile and cost poisons...

What are we, we are a dot/resource sustain through ultimate/ tanky(not full tank) class. So instead of advocating for things that zenimax will never do, advocate for things that might make sense in their eyes.

Common counters include a well timed volitile burst(in referance to cloak), which could use a damage buff but ofcourse people wouldnt agree to it because "it jst promotez turtlez tank arrrh" ... so you would deny a buff any buff if it doesnt fit your particular play style but would benifit every DK across the board? Got it. Clearly bias.

ALTHOUGH everything i listed so far basically helps it with what the DK needs which is resource sustain, we need a form of ultimate regeneration that isnt tied to a nerf... our burst comes in the form of ultimate which is also tied into our resource sustain.

So what is next we need another way to gain utlimate ...

Zenimax wants us to use dots in pvp? ok sure be happy with your poison passive damage passive its weak as hell anyways... like seriously what are they going to do buff it by 10/20(which is the most they could do if they EVER considered it) percent so we can all be bow spammers? No thanks dots are weak and they're in one way useful pressure when you stack them with minor/major defile 45 percent heal debuff so you would have to buff dots by like almost 50 percent for them to be useful on their own. Which THAT is not happening... so instead I ask zenimax to help me keep the dots up by increasing the sustain to be able to keep it up. Which will in turn help most DK with regeneration. (comparable to a wardens passive flourish) doubt the resource increase on this will help a turtle tank that is holding block cause they likely DONT care about stamina sustain. Magicka? doubt its a game changer for most of them but it would help stamina dk. BUT NOT BUFFING THEIR DPS IN PVE! So yeah it works as a regen passive not a damage passive.

Taking critical damage isnt something I want to do, but since I have NO OTHER CHOICE but to take damage might as well gain ultimate for being beaten to a pulp. Sure, we can stack impen and stuff but its risk vs reward here for this passive to be usefull.....This is comparable to having minor heroism which would be nice to have without being forced into running SnB for it. But well lets just keep the useless word in ruin. Its atleast a damage passive that doesnt really make sense. Go ahead. (BTW if you did the math 60/12 = 5(ticks per minute) which would translate into 30 additional ultimate gain per minute similar to minor heroism.) But there is another catch you have to be able to actually live a minute while taking critical damage for the best case senario. Works for me... promoting sustain to actually out sustain enemies.

I added a stamina reflective scales and to fish out bias in people and its clear to me that you probably like that idea because it allows you to have snare removal/escape but also allows for rally. Let me tell you that if a turtle tank uses these two things they would be even HARDER to kill and well you took the bait. So surely you must have a problem with that idea too.

A morph of spiked armor which increases healing by 12 percent due to passives gives a buff but a crap dot? How about we have a morph that does poison/bleed damage that REFLECTS back a percentage of the attack back instead of a flat amount. DD's in pve are not taking direct damage all the time so it wouldn't really be that much of a pve buff. The skill tree is all about reflecting damage back but it does a poor job at it to be honest. And a chance of reflecting a single casted ability on a counter play move like block, and its a percentage chance so if you reflect a light attack ice shard(similar to defensive posture but a weaker version of it) oh well but at least you have a chance from tactically blocking an attack to reflect a single attack instead of being a practice dummy. oh yeah let me spam this on a turtle tank for that 20 percent chance for a free reflect on a buff skill? Let it proc on Roll dodge cause well your rolling how does it make sense to roll and reflect something, even when you have wings up....like how many people roll with wings up? Also roll dodging is something where the repeated dodging of an attack would increase its cost. But blocking a light attack from someone who wants to light attack your wings away comes at a potential cost to be countered with a stun. KEEPING IN MIND that blocking any attack will reset your stamina regeneration for a full 2(TWO) seconds before it starts to tick again.

Inhale could be the delayed burst similar to a wardens bug attack that come off the ground(aka subterranean assault) but instead of it inflicting major breach/fracture let it do the opposite and grant minor toughness.

I really dont know what the issue would be with my suggestion for elder dragon... my suggestion is on the lines of the warden (maturation passive).

Dude, seriously, what are you even talking about?
Your writing is all over the place, and why are you even going to defence mode?



I didnt tell you only way to play stamden is turtle tank. I told you stamDK is already a very strong tank and giving it all that sustain will make it even more absurd at tanking. nobody asks for that. Nobody. Why is this so hard to understand.. like...

DK-NO-TANK- DK-WANT-BURST.. there.. easier now? Can you understand the issue with your suggestion now?

You're basically saying lets not ask the impossible but in your first suggestion you are asking for the impossible.

Your suggestion is making the best tank in this game an even better tank. No, that won't do at all sadly.

Nobody is asking for tanking buffs here. why do you assume giving DK free hp and ult gen will make it burstier?

It cost a dragonic ability to be active so no not really free hp. I mean like what did you want instead casting a dragonic ability to grant minor berserk?(something that is limited to a class as you said but more specifically a monster set but as a passive? 8+8=16 if it isnt classed as a minor berserk passive and it'll stack.

Anything that buffs damage will buff the turtle tank counter damage too. Something zenimax will likely not do. Because stamina DK on the pve side is doing good dps over a good time. How does giving 10 percent hp increase damage out put? well it really doesnt so it wont buff them on the pve side and tip the scales. Thats why I thought it would be a good suggestion on something they might be willing to consider. Otherwise zenimax will risk giving more dps to the pve side of things. Here is a good reference guide that include different ways to get different buffs. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/284053/buffs-and-debuffs-a-full-list-updated-for-clockwork-city/p1

Utimate regeneration because for the longest time playing stamina DK most of the burst has been to Burst+take flight/Dawnbreaker to be used as a soft reset and counter to stop all damage taken and get back on the offensive. The longer the fight last the more it would shift into a sDK favor. Ultimate Regeneration is important because it allows you to keep pressure up. Thus allowing it to burst more often. What does dawnbreaker/take flight do with low weapon damage... absolutely nothing. Like maybe 5-6k damage on a target but on a dps build ive seen them hit quite high. Not to mention one is avoidable/ the other blockable. Not only that the nightblades have incap which cost like 70 ultimate and its quite bursty when combined with other burst skills.

also ZENIMAX's-DK-IS-NO-BURST .... ZENIMAX's-DK-IS-ALL-DOT-AND-SUSTAIN ... there... Couldnt have said it any other way.... dots are weak in pvp but strong for pve so increasing damage to them wont work especially for pve. I'm talking about the dots on the ardent flame tree to be clear.

Go on pick a buff on the list of buffs. 8 percent more damage on a dot? yeah, zenimax for pve gives a big fat no. Unless it applies to all damage done which i doubt it since class passives on dk have been to mostly synergize with its own tree.

Sustain has been toned down alot helping hands doesnt do much, and battle roar doesnt provide the sustain it should. Both have been overly nerfed.

EDIT:

MagDK domination days? Basically the skills if you read through them would cost stamina... how would a magDK block cast with stamina costing skills?

I think since you convinced yourself that these are absolute tank buffs but fail to realize the warden has the same buffs basically. So when you say it'll make a stronger tank ---the warden has the same buffs! You are failing to look at this from a different perspective other than your own. You have to look at it from both pve, and pvp side. It's near impossible to increase damage or give us burst damage without making them over performing in PVE. Like just take a second and look at it.

Put wrote: »

Stam DK's are in a very tough position at the minute, not only must they buff them without making them turtle tanks, but they also need to do it without making magic DK overpowered.

One thing I can think of is increasing the duration of major mending on igneous (basically just revert to pre-morrowind) this defensive change will in turn allow stamDK's to go on the offensive more, especially because of the amount of nightblades/major defile, stamDK's are beaten in terms of healing.

Another thing would be to increase the intitial DoT of venomous claw, and in return reduce the percentage increase (making it the same damage but in a shorter time) this would provide a bigger burst as venomous claw takes a while to grow and every second increases chance of a purify/purge.

Let me know what you think of these changes, just things I thought o

I dont know, the reason i didn't touch venomous claw is because pve staminaDK is top dps with it. I don't know how it'll affect the pve side of things if we started to mess around with it.

So while it might sound good, I need a pve stamina DK input on the venomous claw.

AddictionX wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

Here are somethings i think will help pvp stamina DK

Elder dragon - instead of health recovery per ability slotted, I would like to see something more useful. Critical healing amount and critical healing chance would be a nice change. Could also go with max health increase by 5/10% percent per ability active. Not slotted.

Inhale - I believe a stamina morph of this skill would be nice(deep breath?), causing poison damage would go a long way. It would probably be too weak still. Perhaps also granting minor protection reducing damage taken by 8 percent during its duration. Perhaps removing the heal associated with it but buffing the damage done based on damage taken during its duration. More damage taken = more damage done/reflected back to the attacker.

Spiked armor - While most use Volatile armor I think this could be changed into giving more damage returned per attack. A way to do this is to give the returned amount to deal physical(poison?/bleed) damage. Returning a % of the damage taken to the attacker instead of a flat amount. The stronger the attack the more that gets reflected. Also, it should have perhaps a (20ish?) percent chance to reflect 1 range ability if blocked causing stun for 4 seconds. Its AoE is useful to stamina DK for pulling a nb out of cloak because revealing flare is impractical to run on a stamDK.

Reflective scales - I think we can change reflective plate to cost stamina instead of 4 projectiles in 4 seconds ...I would much rather see perhaps 2 (or 3) projectiles reflected but at 15 to 8 seconds. With snare removal/immunity for 5 seconds(if not then have it grant major expedition for 6 seconds.) or hell just turn this one into a stamina ability and that'll do for now. At this point I would take anything.

I will update farther with any new idea's....

Combustion could be changed to giving back resources. For example, when I hear the word combustion i think of what happens inside engines it basically burns fuel and converts it into mechanical energy. So i think this should be changed into when you reapply a poison or flame damage skill you increase your stamina and magicka recovery by 10/20%.

World in ruin - could be changed to giving back ultimate instead. When you take Critical damage you gain additional 6 ultimate while in combat once every 12 seconds. 12 Second cooldown.

This would make sDK an even better turtle tank in PvP, without solving the real issue.
Which is lack of burst and dots getting countered easily.

Combustion and WiR are damage passives and they should be about doing damage, not sustain.
Earthen heart is the DK's sustain tree, which is nerfed to a point its totally unreliable.

Stamina wings is something I'm suggesting since I made this forum account and it would really help with snare removal, or a speed buff.

Figured someone might of said that, so I actually took these passives as sort of a spin-off of what the warden had in similar trees. Basically, you just told me that the only way to play warden is to be a turtle tank. Just compare it.

So now lets be clear to zenimax and stop asking for the impossible.

We are not a burst class- so get over it and get it through your head. We are not the burst class.... you want it to be, zenimax has obviously made it clear based on the fact that they refuse to give this class burst. So the answer is no, they're not getting burst in the form of a class skill spammable(later on this note). Dots do get countered easily by... cleanse, purge etc... so just reapply? good luck cleansing them 60 times in a single minute w/major/minor defile and cost poisons...

What are we, we are a dot/resource sustain through ultimate/ tanky(not full tank) class. So instead of advocating for things that zenimax will never do, advocate for things that might make sense in their eyes.

Common counters include a well timed volitile burst(in referance to cloak), which could use a damage buff but ofcourse people wouldnt agree to it because "it jst promotez turtlez tank arrrh" ... so you would deny a buff any buff if it doesnt fit your particular play style but would benifit every DK across the board? Got it. Clearly bias.

ALTHOUGH everything i listed so far basically helps it with what the DK needs which is resource sustain, we need a form of ultimate regeneration that isnt tied to a nerf... our burst comes in the form of ultimate which is also tied into our resource sustain.

So what is next we need another way to gain utlimate ...

Zenimax wants us to use dots in pvp? ok sure be happy with your poison passive damage passive its weak as hell anyways... like seriously what are they going to do buff it by 10/20(which is the most they could do if they EVER considered it) percent so we can all be bow spammers? No thanks dots are weak and they're in one way useful pressure when you stack them with minor/major defile 45 percent heal debuff so you would have to buff dots by like almost 50 percent for them to be useful on their own. Which THAT is not happening... so instead I ask zenimax to help me keep the dots up by increasing the sustain to be able to keep it up. Which will in turn help most DK with regeneration. (comparable to a wardens passive flourish) doubt the resource increase on this will help a turtle tank that is holding block cause they likely DONT care about stamina sustain. Magicka? doubt its a game changer for most of them but it would help stamina dk. BUT NOT BUFFING THEIR DPS IN PVE! So yeah it works as a regen passive not a damage passive.

Taking critical damage isnt something I want to do, but since I have NO OTHER CHOICE but to take damage might as well gain ultimate for being beaten to a pulp. Sure, we can stack impen and stuff but its risk vs reward here for this passive to be usefull.....This is comparable to having minor heroism which would be nice to have without being forced into running SnB for it. But well lets just keep the useless word in ruin. Its atleast a damage passive that doesnt really make sense. Go ahead. (BTW if you did the math 60/12 = 5(ticks per minute) which would translate into 30 additional ultimate gain per minute similar to minor heroism.) But there is another catch you have to be able to actually live a minute while taking critical damage for the best case senario. Works for me... promoting sustain to actually out sustain enemies.

I added a stamina reflective scales and to fish out bias in people and its clear to me that you probably like that idea because it allows you to have snare removal/escape but also allows for rally. Let me tell you that if a turtle tank uses these two things they would be even HARDER to kill and well you took the bait. So surely you must have a problem with that idea too.

A morph of spiked armor which increases healing by 12 percent due to passives gives a buff but a crap dot? How about we have a morph that does poison/bleed damage that REFLECTS back a percentage of the attack back instead of a flat amount. DD's in pve are not taking direct damage all the time so it wouldn't really be that much of a pve buff. The skill tree is all about reflecting damage back but it does a poor job at it to be honest. And a chance of reflecting a single casted ability on a counter play move like block, and its a percentage chance so if you reflect a light attack ice shard(similar to defensive posture but a weaker version of it) oh well but at least you have a chance from tactically blocking an attack to reflect a single attack instead of being a practice dummy. oh yeah let me spam this on a turtle tank for that 20 percent chance for a free reflect on a buff skill? Let it proc on Roll dodge cause well your rolling how does it make sense to roll and reflect something, even when you have wings up....like how many people roll with wings up? Also roll dodging is something where the repeated dodging of an attack would increase its cost. But blocking a light attack from someone who wants to light attack your wings away comes at a potential cost to be countered with a stun. KEEPING IN MIND that blocking any attack will reset your stamina regeneration for a full 2(TWO) seconds before it starts to tick again.

Inhale could be the delayed burst similar to a wardens bug attack that come off the ground(aka subterranean assault) but instead of it inflicting major breach/fracture let it do the opposite and grant minor toughness.

I really dont know what the issue would be with my suggestion for elder dragon... my suggestion is on the lines of the warden (maturation passive).

Dude, seriously, what are you even talking about?
Your writing is all over the place, and why are you even going to defence mode?



I didnt tell you only way to play stamden is turtle tank. I told you stamDK is already a very strong tank and giving it all that sustain will make it even more absurd at tanking. nobody asks for that. Nobody. Why is this so hard to understand.. like...

DK-NO-TANK- DK-WANT-BURST.. there.. easier now? Can you understand the issue with your suggestion now?

You're basically saying lets not ask the impossible but in your first suggestion you are asking for the impossible.

Your suggestion is making the best tank in this game an even better tank. No, that won't do at all sadly.

Nobody is asking for tanking buffs here. why do you assume giving DK free hp and ult gen will make it burstier?

It cost a dragonic ability to be active so no not really free hp. I mean like what did you want instead casting a dragonic ability to grant minor berserk?(something that is limited to a class as you said but more specifically a monster set but as a passive? 8+8=16 if it isnt classed as a minor berserk passive and it'll stack.

Anything that buffs damage will buff the turtle tank counter damage too. Something zenimax will likely not do. Because stamina DK on the pve side is doing good dps over a good time. How does giving 10 percent hp increase damage out put? well it really doesnt so it wont buff them on the pve side and tip the scales. Thats why I thought it would be a good suggestion on something they might be willing to consider. Otherwise zenimax will risk giving more dps to the pve side of things. Here is a good reference guide that include different ways to get different buffs. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/284053/buffs-and-debuffs-a-full-list-updated-for-clockwork-city/p1

Utimate regeneration because for the longest time playing stamina DK most of the burst has been to Burst+take flight/Dawnbreaker to be used as a soft reset and counter to stop all damage taken and get back on the offensive. The longer the fight last the more it would shift into a sDK favor. Ultimate Regeneration is important because it allows you to keep pressure up. Thus allowing it to burst more often. What does dawnbreaker/take flight do with low weapon damage... absolutely nothing. Like maybe 5-6k damage on a target but on a dps build ive seen them hit quite high. Not to mention one is avoidable/ the other blockable. Not only that the nightblades have incap which cost like 70 ultimate and its quite bursty when combined with other burst skills.

also ZENIMAX's-DK-IS-NO-BURST .... ZENIMAX's-DK-IS-ALL-DOT-AND-SUSTAIN ... there... Couldnt have said it any other way.... dots are weak in pvp but strong for pve so increasing damage to them wont work especially for pve. I'm talking about the dots on the ardent flame tree to be clear.

Go on pick a buff on the list of buffs. 8 percent more damage on a dot? yeah, zenimax for pve gives a big fat no. Unless it applies to all damage done which i doubt it since class passives on dk have been to mostly synergize with its own tree.

Sustain has been toned down alot helping hands doesnt do much, and battle roar doesnt provide the sustain it should. Both have been overly nerfed.

EDIT:

MagDK domination days? Basically the skills if you read through them would cost stamina... how would a magDK block cast with stamina costing skills?

I think since you convinced yourself that these are absolute tank buffs but fail to realize the warden has the same buffs basically. So when you say it'll make a stronger tank ---the warden has the same buffs! You are failing to look at this from a different perspective other than your own. You have to look at it from both pve, and pvp side. It's near impossible to increase damage or give us burst damage without making them over performing in PVE. Like just take a second and look at it.

I'm really getting tired of explaining every single guy in this game why their ''perfect balance'' ideas are not perfect at all,
since even the smallest change in this game can be a disaster because of build variety and mag/stam imbalance should be preserved.

but sure,whatever. I will explain you one more time, tho you either don't have the ability to understand or you do act like this on purpose.

either way I will give you a detailed explaination anyways, because you clearly lack knowledge about what makes stamdens so strong. Which is okay. As long as you are willing to learn then hope is not lost. Now I'm not saying that Im an expert at game balance or anything. but I played both classes enough to know whats the issue with stamDk. (spoilers: Its lack of burst)

''hurr durr warden has the same buffs''

No , friend. No, Its not that simple.

Yes, wardens do have %12 regen and they have ult regen, that is correct.

But that isn't the whole package for them. This is why you're wrong.

So, nothing but cold and hard facts coming now.

warden gets %2 damage done PER ANIMAL COMPANION ABILITY slotted.
(so lets assume our warden only slotted sub assault on his front bar and has only %2 bonus damage)

And another %8 from bird of prey, in the form of minor berserk. which also gives 2 other major buffs, and completely removes the need of slotting a gapcloser, which is getting a nerf next patch anyways. ( I mean the gapclosers, bird of prey is obviously not nerfed.)

So with bird of prey, you can have slimecraw without equipping slimecraw.

That makes %10 extra damage done.

On top of that added damage they do have sub assault, which with a high damage build does insane burst.
Sub assault hits targets like an aoe dizzying swing, and It has 20m range.

This is soo strong that I Don't even need to use dawnbreaker to get close to the pressure level of a stamDK.
Just the dizzy+s.assault combo is similar burst to a dizzy+leap.

And to make it even better, sub assault is undodgeable, also unblockable.


on top of all this damage they can run heavy and forward momentum because they do have a burst heal, that for some reason also heals allies in front of the warden,

they also have green lotus that gives major savagery+passive heals from light/heavy attacks.(unlike FoO, this doesnt work on the bar its slotted, it gives you the crit+heals while its active, so you can run this on back-bar, giving you more freedom compared to the crappy FoO)

On top of all that, green lotus actually heals your friends too, Its doing the work of both inferno morphs, yes.

And I didnt even mentioned how shimmering shield costs nothing while DK wings have an insane magicka cost.


So, you see, I don't know how can I explain this in a more simple way but It is really simple to understand;

Stamden is not picked over because it can spam more ults, or it can heal-sustain better.
its picked over because it has superior , unstoppable burst.

sDk needs actual damage in its damage passives, It does not need even more hp, it does not need more free regen, it does not need built in ult regen..

It just needs more damage passives and some burst tools.

It could be poison whip, it could be poison inhale , noxious breath reworked into a burst ability or... anything really.
Also a little extra physical damage like every other class have, wouldnt hurt really.