I would have to agree ^^^^^^

It's rough atm..

Skoomah wrote: »

They modified our major mending and gave it to wardens. They reduced our battle roar and igneous shield sustain and gave it to wardens. They basically gutted our class and gave to wardens. We're not asking to be overpowered. We just want to be competitive.

The new meta is to build existing classes so that they mirror the Warden. I see stamina Nightblades and Templars running resto staff back bars all the time to mirror Warden trees. GROSS.

There isn't enough burst in the world to counter constant resets with Nightblade cloak and Templar cleanses and near infinite Warden tree ults. DKs used to reset the fight by outsustaining but we don't do that anymore against any class.

I do believe zos thinks the balance is fine.
To them stamDk is a tank only class and warden is the bruiser/fighter.

This sounds ridicilous at first but when you think about it, it explains what happened to sDk perfectly.
They very carefully only nerfed the parts that made stamDk strong with the morrowind and following patches.

Anyways,

Its either that or they are waiting for feedback before making Dk changes because there are no changes at all directly for Dk.

I doubt that is the case as PTS is more about bug fixes.. but Its kind of my last hope for this game, Its not about not being able to switch classes, but more about learning if zos even cares or not.

Courtesy of @ZOS_GinaBruno in the comment section of today's notes, we should see a preview of the balance changes on the next ESO live.

Dedricus wrote: »

Courtesy of @ZOS_GinaBruno in the comment section of today's notes, we should see a preview of the balance changes on the next ESO live.

I'll be watching to hear what wrobel says.

Dedricus wrote: »

Courtesy of @ZOS_GinaBruno in the comment section of today's notes, we should see a preview of the balance changes on the next ESO live.

When is the next eso live?

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

They modified our major mending and gave it to wardens. They reduced our battle roar and igneous shield sustain and gave it to wardens. They basically gutted our class and gave to wardens. We're not asking to be overpowered. We just want to be competitive.

The new meta is to build existing classes so that they mirror the Warden. I see stamina Nightblades and Templars running resto staff back bars all the time to mirror Warden trees. GROSS.

There isn't enough burst in the world to counter constant resets with Nightblade cloak and Templar cleanses and near infinite Warden tree ults. DKs used to reset the fight by outsustaining but we don't do that anymore against any class.

I do believe zos thinks the balance is fine.
To them stamDk is a tank only class and warden is the bruiser/fighter.

This sounds ridicilous at first but when you think about it, it explains what happened to sDk perfectly.
They very carefully only nerfed the parts that made stamDk strong with the morrowind and following patches.

Anyways,

Its either that or they are waiting for feedback before making Dk changes because there are no changes at all directly for Dk.

I doubt that is the case as PTS is more about bug fixes.. but Its kind of my last hope for this game, Its not about not being able to switch classes, but more about learning if zos even cares or not.

The only reason stamDK got nurfs was because people begged them to nurf the class because they were "overperforming".
Now people ask again for buffs let the cicle continue

Alcast wrote: »

The only reason stamDK got nurfs was because people begged them to nurf the class because they were "overperforming".
Now people ask again for buffs let the cicle continue

The important distinction here is the "people". Almost everyone in this thread, and in skooma's original thread, are stam DK voices I've seen on the forums before. The people who wanted Stam DK nerfs are the same people who want major warden nerfs. They don't know how to play against a resource sustain/burst damage class, and that's fine. They need to accept they don't know what they're doing and learn how to fight them instead of just screaming nerfs.

The DK community seems to agree Stam DK is in shambles. Hopefully ZoS addresses some of the issues.

Dedricus wrote: »

Aerem wrote: »

The changes to BR were not a buff to Mdk, far from it, I would take the old battle roar in an instant.

Considering Magicka DKs makes BETTER use of stamina than Stamina DKs make of their magicka, it could be considered a small buff. Even then, the HH change definitely gave Mag DKs even more stamina to play with.

Let's not derail here. The post is about Stam DKs getting more attention, not crapping on Mag DKs

No way... try to dodgeroll, block and break free with a mDK... or even better, try to catch a stam/msorc enemy with your pittiful stam pool

BohnT wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Dedricus wrote: »

Aerem wrote: »

The changes to BR were not a buff to Mdk, far from it, I would take the old battle roar in an instant.

Considering Magicka DKs makes BETTER use of stamina than Stamina DKs make of their magicka, it could be considered a small buff. Even then, the HH change definitely gave Mag DKs even more stamina to play with.

Let's not derail here. The post is about Stam DKs getting more attention, not crapping on Mag DKs

No way... try to dodgeroll, block and break free with a mDK... or even better, try to catch a stam/msorc enemy with your pittiful stam pool

The stam dk can't catch them either. My magdk can block longer than my stamdk while having much more damage. Why would i want to dodge on a magdk anyway unless it's to get out of a root which everyone should have enough stam.

But again, you are pigeoholed into S/B mDK, and that's a stupid design for a class. Granted, mDK currently has much more potential than stamDK, but that has more to do with the sets mDK has access which include BSW and Sun.

What about stamDK: 7th Legion? Better on stamplar. Ravager? Way better on stamplar and stamblade.

Anything that buff poison dmg: Morag Tong? Just a pityful 10% extra dmg that becomes a 5% due to BR. Swamp Raider? You need not only use a magicka skill to proc the bonus to poison dmg, but also DO DMG with a magicka skill (IDK if magicka DoTs count) and the buff is a shame, Poisonous serpent? A joke.

Yes, stamDK lacks a class spamable, but instead of making a stam whip, I'd just make venemous claw a burst skill instead of a dot, and I'd buff Morag Tong while making a rework on Swamp Raider (imho it should be a stam version of BSW or something similar)

BohnT wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Dedricus wrote: »

Aerem wrote: »

The changes to BR were not a buff to Mdk, far from it, I would take the old battle roar in an instant.

Considering Magicka DKs makes BETTER use of stamina than Stamina DKs make of their magicka, it could be considered a small buff. Even then, the HH change definitely gave Mag DKs even more stamina to play with.

Let's not derail here. The post is about Stam DKs getting more attention, not crapping on Mag DKs

No way... try to dodgeroll, block and break free with a mDK... or even better, try to catch a stam/msorc enemy with your pittiful stam pool

The stam dk can't catch them either. My magdk can block longer than my stamdk while having much more damage. Why would i want to dodge on a magdk anyway unless it's to get out of a root which everyone should have enough stam.

But again, you are pigeoholed into S/B mDK, and that's a stupid design for a class. Granted, mDK currently has much more potential than stamDK, but that has more to do with the sets mDK has access which include BSW and Sun.

What about stamDK: 7th Legion? Better on stamplar. Ravager? Way better on stamplar and stamblade.

Anything that buff poison dmg: Morag Tong? Just a pityful 10% extra dmg that becomes a 5% due to BR. Swamp Raider? You need not only use a magicka skill to proc the bonus to poison dmg, but also DO DMG with a magicka skill (IDK if magicka DoTs count) and the buff is a shame, Poisonous serpent? A joke.

Yes, stamDK lacks a class spamable, but instead of making a stam whip, I'd just make venemous claw a burst skill instead of a dot, and I'd buff Morag Tong while making a rework on Swamp Raider (imho it should be a stam version of BSW or something similar)

There are strong magdk builds with every weapon combination except for bow+ anything.
Morag Tong is fine as it buffs all poison damage that hits the target and not just you own.
Venemous claw is the bread and butter in PvE, noxious Breath on the other hand could work as a single target spammable.

Also why has the class that bases its sustain on ultimates the worst ulti regen in the game?

Nbs get more with potion and siphoner passives
Templar has the same amount (3 ult every 6 sec) + 4% cost reduction
Sorc has 15% cost reduction
And warden lol i can't even sum it up without starting to laugh

Mountain Blessing is not that bad... it's just the place it's located what's wrong. I 'd gladly exchange it with Burning Heart or that *** called Combustion

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

They modified our major mending and gave it to wardens. They reduced our battle roar and igneous shield sustain and gave it to wardens. They basically gutted our class and gave to wardens. We're not asking to be overpowered. We just want to be competitive.

The new meta is to build existing classes so that they mirror the Warden. I see stamina Nightblades and Templars running resto staff back bars all the time to mirror Warden trees. GROSS.

There isn't enough burst in the world to counter constant resets with Nightblade cloak and Templar cleanses and near infinite Warden tree ults. DKs used to reset the fight by outsustaining but we don't do that anymore against any class.

I do believe zos thinks the balance is fine.
To them stamDk is a tank only class and warden is the bruiser/fighter.

This sounds ridicilous at first but when you think about it, it explains what happened to sDk perfectly.
They very carefully only nerfed the parts that made stamDk strong with the morrowind and following patches.

Anyways,

Its either that or they are waiting for feedback before making Dk changes because there are no changes at all directly for Dk.

I doubt that is the case as PTS is more about bug fixes.. but Its kind of my last hope for this game, Its not about not being able to switch classes, but more about learning if zos even cares or not.

The only reason stamDK got nurfs was because people begged them to nurf the class because they were "overperforming".
Now people ask again for buffs let the cicle continue

I expected a nerf anyways, because heavy armor was meta, and stamDK was made for heavy armor.
was it really overperforming with all the one shot proc nbs and shieldstacking sorcs back then? I don't know.. I can't even tell.
But what I can tell is, I never expected a nerf in such a twisted, cruel way.

I say yes it was but only in very limited encounters. In 1v1 i think there was a way to kill a stamdk back then unless you were abusing selene+viper double procs and cost poisons.
But they overnerfed it and introduced a class that is better in every aspect of the game. And now stamdk is the weakest class in the game with no usability in PvP unless you want to keep the memories alive

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

They modified our major mending and gave it to wardens. They reduced our battle roar and igneous shield sustain and gave it to wardens. They basically gutted our class and gave to wardens. We're not asking to be overpowered. We just want to be competitive.

The new meta is to build existing classes so that they mirror the Warden. I see stamina Nightblades and Templars running resto staff back bars all the time to mirror Warden trees. GROSS.

There isn't enough burst in the world to counter constant resets with Nightblade cloak and Templar cleanses and near infinite Warden tree ults. DKs used to reset the fight by outsustaining but we don't do that anymore against any class.

I do believe zos thinks the balance is fine.
To them stamDk is a tank only class and warden is the bruiser/fighter.

This sounds ridicilous at first but when you think about it, it explains what happened to sDk perfectly.
They very carefully only nerfed the parts that made stamDk strong with the morrowind and following patches.

Anyways,

Its either that or they are waiting for feedback before making Dk changes because there are no changes at all directly for Dk.

I doubt that is the case as PTS is more about bug fixes.. but Its kind of my last hope for this game, Its not about not being able to switch classes, but more about learning if zos even cares or not.

The only reason stamDK got nurfs was because people begged them to nurf the class because they were "overperforming".
Now people ask again for buffs let the cicle continue

I expected a nerf anyways, because heavy armor was meta, and stamDK was made for heavy armor.
was it really overperforming with all the one shot proc nbs and shieldstacking sorcs back then? I don't know.. I can't even tell.
But what I can tell is, I never expected a nerf in such a twisted, cruel way.

I say yes it was but only in very limited encounters. In 1v1 i think there was a way to kill a stamdk back then unless you were abusing selene+viper double procs and cost poisons.
But they overnerfed it and introduced a class that is better in every aspect of the game. And now stamdk is the weakest class in the game with no usability in PvP unless you want to keep the memories alive

memories... I'll pass.

I did what I should have 6 months ago and cancelled my sub recently. with the recent patches I wanted to believe zos has changed for the good but the fact that they have the time to buff wardens but no time for any adjustments for sDk, goes to show they do not care.

I've completely given up on this game , this issue completely destroyed all my trust in zenimax.

Now waiting for the ''Ashes of Hype'', and a few other titles that have no gurantee of being good, but maybe, just maybe they will offer a good PvP experience, and I can finally leave and never touch another zenimax game.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

They modified our major mending and gave it to wardens. They reduced our battle roar and igneous shield sustain and gave it to wardens. They basically gutted our class and gave to wardens. We're not asking to be overpowered. We just want to be competitive.

The new meta is to build existing classes so that they mirror the Warden. I see stamina Nightblades and Templars running resto staff back bars all the time to mirror Warden trees. GROSS.

There isn't enough burst in the world to counter constant resets with Nightblade cloak and Templar cleanses and near infinite Warden tree ults. DKs used to reset the fight by outsustaining but we don't do that anymore against any class.

I do believe zos thinks the balance is fine.
To them stamDk is a tank only class and warden is the bruiser/fighter.

This sounds ridicilous at first but when you think about it, it explains what happened to sDk perfectly.
They very carefully only nerfed the parts that made stamDk strong with the morrowind and following patches.

Anyways,

Its either that or they are waiting for feedback before making Dk changes because there are no changes at all directly for Dk.

I doubt that is the case as PTS is more about bug fixes.. but Its kind of my last hope for this game, Its not about not being able to switch classes, but more about learning if zos even cares or not.

The only reason stamDK got nurfs was because people begged them to nurf the class because they were "overperforming".
Now people ask again for buffs let the cicle continue

I expected a nerf anyways, because heavy armor was meta, and stamDK was made for heavy armor.
was it really overperforming with all the one shot proc nbs and shieldstacking sorcs back then? I don't know.. I can't even tell.
But what I can tell is, I never expected a nerf in such a twisted, cruel way.

I say yes it was but only in very limited encounters. In 1v1 i think there was a way to kill a stamdk back then unless you were abusing selene+viper double procs and cost poisons.
But they overnerfed it and introduced a class that is better in every aspect of the game. And now stamdk is the weakest class in the game with no usability in PvP unless you want to keep the memories alive

memories... I'll pass.

I did what I should have 6 months ago and cancelled my sub recently. with the recent patches I wanted to believe zos has changed for the good but the fact that they have the time to buff wardens but no time for any adjustments for sDk, goes to show they do not care.

I've completely given up on this game , this issue completely destroyed all my trust in zenimax.

Now waiting for the ''Ashes of Hype'', and a few other titles that have no gurantee of being good, but maybe, just maybe they will offer a good PvP experience, and I can finally leave and never touch another zenimax game.

I wouldn't see the future that dark. There was a long time when magdk was the biggest piece of junk or magnb, things change but back then at least there where no classes who did exactly the same job but better and that's what's i hate so much about warden and class Balance

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

They modified our major mending and gave it to wardens. They reduced our battle roar and igneous shield sustain and gave it to wardens. They basically gutted our class and gave to wardens. We're not asking to be overpowered. We just want to be competitive.

The new meta is to build existing classes so that they mirror the Warden. I see stamina Nightblades and Templars running resto staff back bars all the time to mirror Warden trees. GROSS.

There isn't enough burst in the world to counter constant resets with Nightblade cloak and Templar cleanses and near infinite Warden tree ults. DKs used to reset the fight by outsustaining but we don't do that anymore against any class.

I do believe zos thinks the balance is fine.
To them stamDk is a tank only class and warden is the bruiser/fighter.

This sounds ridicilous at first but when you think about it, it explains what happened to sDk perfectly.
They very carefully only nerfed the parts that made stamDk strong with the morrowind and following patches.

Anyways,

Its either that or they are waiting for feedback before making Dk changes because there are no changes at all directly for Dk.

I doubt that is the case as PTS is more about bug fixes.. but Its kind of my last hope for this game, Its not about not being able to switch classes, but more about learning if zos even cares or not.

The only reason stamDK got nurfs was because people begged them to nurf the class because they were "overperforming".
Now people ask again for buffs let the cicle continue

I expected a nerf anyways, because heavy armor was meta, and stamDK was made for heavy armor.
was it really overperforming with all the one shot proc nbs and shieldstacking sorcs back then? I don't know.. I can't even tell.
But what I can tell is, I never expected a nerf in such a twisted, cruel way.

I say yes it was but only in very limited encounters. In 1v1 i think there was a way to kill a stamdk back then unless you were abusing selene+viper double procs and cost poisons.
But they overnerfed it and introduced a class that is better in every aspect of the game. And now stamdk is the weakest class in the game with no usability in PvP unless you want to keep the memories alive

memories... I'll pass.

I did what I should have 6 months ago and cancelled my sub recently. with the recent patches I wanted to believe zos has changed for the good but the fact that they have the time to buff wardens but no time for any adjustments for sDk, goes to show they do not care.

I've completely given up on this game , this issue completely destroyed all my trust in zenimax.

Now waiting for the ''Ashes of Hype'', and a few other titles that have no gurantee of being good, but maybe, just maybe they will offer a good PvP experience, and I can finally leave and never touch another zenimax game.

I wouldn't see the future that dark. There was a long time when magdk was the biggest piece of junk or magnb, things change but back then at least there where no classes who did exactly the same job but better and that's what's i hate so much about warden and class Balance

I would be %100 fine with it, if warden didnt exist. but it does. and its existance is the biggest insult to all Dk mains.

Well, one of the things we told ZoS before launching warden was to balance first, present new classes later... of course they did it the other way around

usmcjdking wrote: »

Elder Dragon, World in Ruin and Iron Skin are incredibly niche passives that offer stam DK nothing in general.

All 3 of those need a rework. They don't need to be buffed to the gills, but they do need to be applicable. Templar runs into the same issue.

What about combustion? Do you think a lame passive tied to RGN offeres anything to StamDK or MagDK?

It is the crappiest passive of all. All the others can be buld towards something (health regen tank/AoE poison-flame DD/Permablocker)... how do you build towards Combustion?

It's a DoT that can't be applied to 20% races in Cyro: Dunmer (burning status) or Argonians (Poison status)