Is PASSIVE 35.6% less damage taken + 40k magicka & 3k SP balanced ?

Aedaryl · January 2018

Hello,

I don't know how ZoS didn't nerfed it yet, but there is a combo participating in the S&B block Tanky high damage stam { dk,sorc,warden,templar} and mag dk/templar that can be easely pointed out.

Orginal post with wrong numbers :

The perfect example for illustrate the OP garbage of this combo is magicka templar:

- Wizard riposte : 15% damage mitigation
- Pirate skeleton 30% damage mitigation
- + offensive set
- +Vampire
- + argonian

= 45% passive mitigation (add 33% from undead at low hp)
with more insane active mitigation when blocking ( 45% passive coupled with 70% from S&B with 8% if melee damage or 15% if ranged/projectile with 33% from undead if low hp)
3k+ spell damage
2.5k magicka recovery
40k magicka

The lol thing about that build is you can PURGE the debuff from pirate skeleton, so you have 45% free passive damage mitagtion. If you wonder how strong is it, you need to remember that the base block mitigation is 50%. That combo is almost like blocking ALL THE TIME with a non S&B weapon.

EDIT :

The calcul shown Major protection and Minor main from pirate skeleton and wizard repost making you take 35.6% less damage than someone with the same resist and cps but without Minor main and major protection. That's still a huge damage mitigating without doing nothing.

Here is the damage mitigation calculator : https://jscalc.io/calc/fiasVNPSGsOdmsF6

The problem of that build is the no downside. Sustain is infinite (purge remove cost poisons), the damage is VERY HIGH and you are almost immortal, the templar in trouble will go S&B, cast BoL/HoD and he will mitigate INSANE damage while going to 1% to 100% in a second.

This is how templar can be god in every PvP game mode : it's insane in 1v1, insane in small group, insane is large group, insane in 1vx.

This is not balanced at all. ZoS need to nerf it, the first step should be to make the debuff from pirate skeleton non purgeable.

Merlin13KAGL · January 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Hello,

I don't know how ZoS didn't nerfed it yet, but there is a combo participating in the S&B block Tanky high damage stam { dk,sorc,warden,templar} and mag dk/templar that can be easely pointed out.

The perfect example for illustrate the OP garbage of this combo is magicka templar:

- Wizard riposte : 15% damage mitigation
- Pirate skeleton 30% damage mitigation
- + offensive set
- +Vampire
- + argonian
= 45% passive mitigation (add 33% from undead at low hp)
with more insane active mitigation when blocking ( 45% passive coupled with 70% from S&B with 8% if melee damage or 15% if ranged/projectile with 33% from undead if low hp)
3k+ spell damage
2.5k magicka recovery
40k magicka

The lol thing about that build is you can PURGE the debuff from pirate skeleton, so you have 45% free passive damage mitagtion. If you wonder how strong is it, you need to remember that the base block mitigation is 50%. That combo is almost like blocking ALL THE TIME with a non S&B weapon.

The problem of that build is the no downside. Sustain is infinite (purge remove cost poisons), the damage is VERY HIGH and you are almost immortal, the templar in trouble will go S&B, cast BoL/HoD and he will mitigate INSANE damage while going to 1% to 100% in a second.

This is how templar can be god in every PvP game mode : it's insane in 1v1, insane in small group, insane is large group, insane in 1vx.

This is not balanced at all. ZoS need to nerf it, the first step should be to make the debuff from pirate skeleton non purgeable.

Pirate Skele has to proc (6%) & has a cooldown. It also doesn't proc if you have a shield up, don't care if it's a 1 point shield, it won't proc.

And how the hell do you figure 70% from S&B? It's 20% from S&B passive and 8% from Def Posture slotted...?

Zer0oo · January 2018

And for a build video ask @Blobsky

Aedaryl · January 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Hello,

I don't know how ZoS didn't nerfed it yet, but there is a combo participating in the S&B block Tanky high damage stam { dk,sorc,warden,templar} and mag dk/templar that can be easely pointed out.

The perfect example for illustrate the OP garbage of this combo is magicka templar:

- Wizard riposte : 15% damage mitigation
- Pirate skeleton 30% damage mitigation
- + offensive set
- +Vampire
- + argonian
= 45% passive mitigation (add 33% from undead at low hp)
with more insane active mitigation when blocking ( 45% passive coupled with 70% from S&B with 8% if melee damage or 15% if ranged/projectile with 33% from undead if low hp)
3k+ spell damage
2.5k magicka recovery
40k magicka

The lol thing about that build is you can PURGE the debuff from pirate skeleton, so you have 45% free passive damage mitagtion. If you wonder how strong is it, you need to remember that the base block mitigation is 50%. That combo is almost like blocking ALL THE TIME with a non S&B weapon.

The problem of that build is the no downside. Sustain is infinite (purge remove cost poisons), the damage is VERY HIGH and you are almost immortal, the templar in trouble will go S&B, cast BoL/HoD and he will mitigate INSANE damage while going to 1% to 100% in a second.

This is how templar can be god in every PvP game mode : it's insane in 1v1, insane in small group, insane is large group, insane in 1vx.

This is not balanced at all. ZoS need to nerf it, the first step should be to make the debuff from pirate skeleton non purgeable.

Pirate Skele has to proc (6%) & has a cooldown. It also doesn't proc if you have a shield up, don't care if it's a 1 point shield, it won't proc.

And how the hell do you figure 70% from S&B? It's 20% from S&B passive and 8% from Def Posture slotted...?

Meta templar doesn't have a shield, and pirate skeleton is 8% proc chance on DAMAGE RECIEVE, it's mean more you need it, more it will proc, also every single dot can proc it => it proc very easely. For the 3s left, just mist form.

There is no excuse for the powercreep.

The base mitigation when you block is 50% s&B add 20% more in a passive.

Aedaryl · January 2018

Zer0oo wrote: »

And for a build video ask @Blobsky

Blobsky just show off the meta templar run since a lot of time, it will just increase the number of powercreep.

Sharee · January 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

The base mitigation when you block is 50% s&B add 20% more in a passive.

I always thought this as well, but recently i was looking through a log where i got hit by an attack, got block up, got hit by the same attack again, and the second one only did 27% less damage.

This was on a DK in light armor blocking with a resto staff. DK even gets a passive for more damage mitigation from blocking. Makes me wonder if the base block mitigation got changed somehow.

Zer0oo · January 2018

Tbh i think it does not matter what sets are templer uses as long as he has a s&b can can block casting bol and purify he is almost immortal.

Aedaryl · January 2018

Sharee wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

The base mitigation when you block is 50% s&B add 20% more in a passive.

I always thought this as well, but recently i was looking through a log where i got hit by an attack, got block up, got hit by the same attack again, and the second one only did 27% less damage.

This was on a DK in light armor blocking with a resto staff. DK even gets a passive for more damage mitigation from blocking. Makes me wonder if the base block mitigation got changed somehow.

The theory is 50% matigation, I will test it and post screenshots in some hours, if the base block mitigation is less than 50%, it's just make the combo even more effective...

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · January 2018

i really reccomend you read this, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p, before you jump to conclustions, the way you think it works is not how it works.

Merlin13KAGL · January 2018

I'm also pretty sure you need to leave block out of it, considering that it common to everyone until your stam runs out, which would be the goal of your attacker in this case.

And Guard is a bigger issue than PS ever will be, because it's 30% mitigation with zero cooldown. One heals while the other (higher remaining health) eats the damage. When the one Guarding gets low, the Guardee simply activates to become the Guarder.

Minno · January 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Hello,

I don't know how ZoS didn't nerfed it yet, but there is a combo participating in the S&B block Tanky high damage stam { dk,sorc,warden,templar} and mag dk/templar that can be easely pointed out.

The perfect example for illustrate the OP garbage of this combo is magicka templar:

- Wizard riposte : 15% damage mitigation
- Pirate skeleton 30% damage mitigation
- + offensive set
- +Vampire
- + argonian
= 45% passive mitigation (add 33% from undead at low hp)
with more insane active mitigation when blocking ( 45% passive coupled with 70% from S&B with 8% if melee damage or 15% if ranged/projectile with 33% from undead if low hp)
3k+ spell damage
2.5k magicka recovery
40k magicka

The lol thing about that build is you can PURGE the debuff from pirate skeleton, so you have 45% free passive damage mitagtion. If you wonder how strong is it, you need to remember that the base block mitigation is 50%. That combo is almost like blocking ALL THE TIME with a non S&B weapon.

The problem of that build is the no downside. Sustain is infinite (purge remove cost poisons), the damage is VERY HIGH and you are almost immortal, the templar in trouble will go S&B, cast BoL/HoD and he will mitigate INSANE damage while going to 1% to 100% in a second.

This is how templar can be god in every PvP game mode : it's insane in 1v1, insane in small group, insane is large group, insane in 1vx.

This is not balanced at all. ZoS need to nerf it, the first step should be to make the debuff from pirate skeleton non purgeable.

Pirate Skele has to proc (6%) & has a cooldown. It also doesn't proc if you have a shield up, don't care if it's a 1 point shield, it won't proc.

And how the hell do you figure 70% from S&B? It's 20% from S&B passive and 8% from Def Posture slotted...?

Meta templar doesn't have a shield, and pirate skeleton is 8% proc chance on DAMAGE RECIEVE, it's mean more you need it, more it will proc, also every single dot can proc it => it proc very easely. For the 3s left, just mist form.

There is no excuse for the powercreep.

The base mitigation when you block is 50% s&B add 20% more in a passive.

But they also can't move lol.

You do know, all of the mitigation is taking an amount off of the number previously calculated on, right? So if I have 50% battle sprit, and 10% Hardy and get hit with a 10k hit, I'm taking 5k from battle sprit and then 10% off 5k is only 500 DMG.

Block does add alot, as does major protection, but your total mitigation only goes up by 10% for major protection after battle sprit is calculated. Minor protection is actually between 2-3% instead of 8%. Same goes for minor naim

I suggest you use the famous mitigation calculator to see how much mitigation players are actually getting in cyro. You'll find your thread to be a little dramatic (especially since no one goes above 10k penetration yet even light armor can reach 16k without much effort.)

Minno · January 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I'm also pretty sure you need to leave block out of it, considering that it common to everyone until your stam runs out, which would be the goal of your attacker in this case.

And Guard is a bigger issue than PS ever will be, because it's 30% mitigation with zero cooldown. One heals while the other (higher remaining health) eats the damage. When the one Guarding gets low, the Guardee simply activates to become the Guarder.

And guard I think acts like a shield (at least last I saw in the mitigation thread?)

Akinos · January 2018

lmao, somebody made a thread to try to get @Blobsky build nerfed.

Aedaryl · January 2018

You guyz can't defend powercreep, it doesn't work :

I took the mitigation calculator : https://jscalc.io/calc/fiasVNPSGsOdmsF6

How much damage a 20k frag tooltip will do on a templar with wizard riposte and Pirate skelton ?

I take the stats blobs have in the video, for the sake of reality.

Here is the data put in the calculator : https://jscalc.io/calc/fiasVNPSGsOdmsF6

Damage : 20k
Race : Argonian
Type of damage : Magic
Spell resistance : 17099 from blobs unbuffed video + 5280 from major ward = 22379
Elemental defender : 10%
Damage : Direct
Ironclad : 20%
Scenario : Player versus Player
Expert Defender : 0
Weapon : 1&S
Monster form : Vampire (no undead or mistform activated)
Minor main and Major protection activated.

My 20k damage tooltip will hurt (non critical) a non blocking templar with wizard riposte and Pirate skelton for a damage of

3.069

Is it balanced to mitage that much PASSIVELY ?

Minno · January 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

You guyz can't defend powercreep, it doesn't work :

I took the mitigation calculator : https://jscalc.io/calc/fiasVNPSGsOdmsF6

How much damage a 20k frag tooltip will do on a templar with wizard riposte and Pirate skelton ?

I take the stats blobs have in the video, for the sake of reality.

Here is the data put in the calculator : https://jscalc.io/calc/fiasVNPSGsOdmsF6

Damage : 20k
Race : Argonian
Type of damage : Magic
Spell resistance : 17099 from blobs unbuffed video + 5280 from major ward = 22379
Elemental defender : 10%
Damage : Direct
Ironclad : 20%
Scenario : Player versus Player
Expert Defender : 0
Weapon : 1&S
Monster form : Vampire (no undead or mistform activated)
Minor main and Major protection activated.

My 20k damage tooltip will hurt (non critical) a non blocking templar with wizard riposte and Pirate skelton for a damage of
3.069

Is it balanced to mitage that much PASSIVELY ?

If you are blocking, you aren't passively mitigating....

Aedaryl · January 2018

Minno wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

You guyz can't defend powercreep, it doesn't work :

I took the mitigation calculator : https://jscalc.io/calc/fiasVNPSGsOdmsF6

How much damage a 20k frag tooltip will do on a templar with wizard riposte and Pirate skelton ?

I take the stats blobs have in the video, for the sake of reality.

Here is the data put in the calculator : https://jscalc.io/calc/fiasVNPSGsOdmsF6

Damage : 20k
Race : Argonian
Type of damage : Magic
Spell resistance : 17099 from blobs unbuffed video + 5280 from major ward = 22379
Elemental defender : 10%
Damage : Direct
Ironclad : 20%
Scenario : Player versus Player
Expert Defender : 0
Weapon : 1&S
Monster form : Vampire (no undead or mistform activated)
Minor main and Major protection activated.

My 20k damage tooltip will hurt (non critical) a non blocking templar with wizard riposte and Pirate skelton for a damage of
3.069

Is it balanced to mitage that much PASSIVELY ?

If you are blocking, you aren't passively mitigating....

This is WITHOUT BLOCKING

Minno · January 2018

And your resists in the calculator don't account for penetration. You'll find that number to drop hard once you take 17099 and subtract 15280 (ele drain+ sharp + light armor + CP points).

So you'll have to change 17099 to 1819 to get a better picture of mitigation in cyro against mag builds.

Edit:
As I thought, I'm only seeing 75% total mitigation with major protection on before block. With minor protection or maim that turns into 77% total mitigation. This is with 15280 penetration. Your target is still taking 4k DMG...

Conclusion: stack more armor pen.

Edit 2:
Buffed resists equal 7099 after penetration. Target is now at 77% total mitigation instead of 75%. Conclusion remains the same, stack more penetration.

Aedaryl · January 2018

Minno wrote: »

And your resists in the calculator don't account for penetration. You'll find that number to drop hard once you take 17099 and subtract 15280 (ele drain+ sharp + light armor + CP points).

So you'll have to change 17099 to 1819 to get a better picture of mitigation in cyro against mag builds.

People don't use elemental drain, sharpened isn't used in most of the situtations, but let's play the game and take 10k magicka penetration so the imput in the calculator is 12379.

The damage is 3769, remember it's from a 20k tooltip, and the templar do nothing.

It's unbalanced, accpet it.

Aedaryl · January 2018

Minno wrote: »

And your resists in the calculator don't account for penetration. You'll find that number to drop hard once you take 17099 and subtract 15280 (ele drain+ sharp + light armor + CP points).

So you'll have to change 17099 to 1819 to get a better picture of mitigation in cyro against mag builds.

Edit:
As I thought, I'm only seeing 75% total mitigation with major protection on before block. With minor protection or maim that turns into 77% total mitigation. This is with 15280 penetration. Your target is still taking 4k DMG...

Conclusion: stack more armor pen.

Edit 2:
Buffed resists equal 7099 after penetration. Target is now at 77% total mitigation instead of 75%. Conclusion remains the same, stack more penetration.

ahahah, people don't run elemental drain in cyrodil as I told you. 10615 is the spell erosion you have in light armor with sharpened weapon and 40 points into spell erosion, this is realistic.

Minno · January 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

And your resists in the calculator don't account for penetration. You'll find that number to drop hard once you take 17099 and subtract 15280 (ele drain+ sharp + light armor + CP points).

So you'll have to change 17099 to 1819 to get a better picture of mitigation in cyro against mag builds.

People don't use elemental drain, sharpened isn't used in most of the situtations, but let's play the game and take 10k magicka penetration so the imput in the calculator is 12379.

The damage is 3769, remember it's from a 20k tooltip, and the templar do nothing.

It's unbalanced, accpet it.

People should be using armor debuffs in the sharpened nerf meta though. Not my fault you aren't using the best tool in the game to increase dps on targets that have between 16000-21000 armor values.

Aedaryl · January 2018

Minno wrote: »

And your resists in the calculator don't account for penetration. You'll find that number to drop hard once you take 17099 and subtract 15280 (ele drain+ sharp + light armor + CP points).

So you'll have to change 17099 to 1819 to get a better picture of mitigation in cyro against mag builds.

Edit:
As I thought, I'm only seeing 75% total mitigation with major protection on before block. With minor protection or maim that turns into 77% total mitigation. This is with 15280 penetration. Your target is still taking 4k DMG...

Conclusion: stack more armor pen.

Edit 2:
Buffed resists equal 7099 after penetration. Target is now at 77% total mitigation instead of 75%. Conclusion remains the same, stack more penetration.

ahahah, people don't run elemental drain in cyrodil as I told

Minno wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

And your resists in the calculator don't account for penetration. You'll find that number to drop hard once you take 17099 and subtract 15280 (ele drain+ sharp + light armor + CP points).

So you'll have to change 17099 to 1819 to get a better picture of mitigation in cyro against mag builds.

People don't use elemental drain, sharpened isn't used in most of the situtations, but let's play the game and take 10k magicka penetration so the imput in the calculator is 12379.

The damage is 3769, remember it's from a 20k tooltip, and the templar do nothing.

It's unbalanced, accpet it.

People should be using armor debuffs in the sharpened nerf meta though. Not my fault you aren't using the best tool in the game to increase dps on targets that have between 16000-21000 armor values.

Using elemental drain is link to destro staff, and most build in this game doesn't have acces to it, other with a destro staff doesn't have the place to use most of the time.

I took a 20k tooltip remember it's huge, and no one expect assassin's will and trollverload have that tooltip.

Accept it, this is overpowered.

ManDraKE · January 2018

Mitigation (reduce damage taken by X%) is multiplicative, the more you add the less benefit you get, so the math is not exactly as you listed. That being said, stacking wizards + pirate/resto-ult is kinda broken (who had the brilliant idea of make major protection widely available? seriously...)

I've said it before, wizard's needs a nerf in uptime (and probably minor mail needs to be reduce a bit, 15% is too much imo). Pirate skeleton minor defile was un-purgeable when the set was released, now is purgeable, most likely a bug

Balance aside, is hilarious that someone made this post just to get blobs build nerfed lol.

Brutusmax1mus · January 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Zer0oo wrote: »

And for a build video ask @Blobsky

Blobsky just show off the meta templar run since a lot of time, it will just increase the number of powercreep.

That was not a meta templar.

Aedaryl · January 2018

ManDraKE wrote: »

Mitigation (reduce damage taken by X%) is multiplicative, the more you add the less benefit you get, so the math is not exactly as you listed. That being said, stacking wizards + pirate/resto-ult is kinda broken (who had the brilliant idea of make major protection widely available? seriously...)

I've said it before, wizard's needs a nerf in uptime (and probably minor mail needs to be reduce a bit, 15% is too much imo). Pirate skeleton minor defile was un-purgeable when the set was released, now is purgeable, most likely a bug

Balance aside, is hilarious that someone made this post just to get blobs build nerfed lol.

I NEVER said mitigation was additive, that's why I used mosty "with", I also used the damage calculator (https://jscalc.io/calc/fiasVNPSGsOdmsF6) that work with real formula :

paulsimonps wrote: »
Now lets talk numbers. The way that mitigation is calculated is as following:
MITIGATION=100-(100*(1-((Resistance/662)/100))*(1-(Mitigation #1)/100)*(1-(Mitigation #2)/100)*(1-(Mitigation #3)/100))*etc etc)
DAMAGE TAKEN=Base Damage*(1-((Resistance/662)/100))*(1-(Mitigation #1)/100)*(1-(Mitigation #2)/100)*(1-(Mitigation #3)/100))*etc etc
The way you would use this formula is to replace the place holders with the percentage numbers that is show in the tool-tips in the game and obviously the resistance should be the number of which ever resistance you want to test with. If you have more than 3 sources than just add more to fill your needs. Now something you might notice is that this way of calculating will result in diminishing returns, what that means is that for each added mitigation source the usefulness of each individual source gets reduced. As an example, having 2 sources that give 50% mitigation will give you a total of 75% mitigation.

Lets do some examples using things the average tank would use. Lets make it a Dragonknight, for obvious reasons. So they would have 50% from blocking, lets say 30% from resistance, 15% from minor maim, 8% from Absorb Magic, 10% from the Iron Skin Passive and 20% from the Sword and Board Passive. The calculations would look like this:
100-(100*(1-(19860/662)/100)*(1-(50)/100)*(1-(15)/100)*(1-(8)/100))*(1-(10)/100)*(1-(20)/100))=100-(100*(0.70)*(0.5)*(0.85)*(0.92)*(0.9)*(0.8))=80.2936%
So with all of those sources added together we ended up with a total of 80.2936% of the damage we take being mitigated. Now if we want to apply these calculations to see how much damage we would be taking from a hit we would just change it to be like this:
23549*(1-(19860/662)/100)*(1-(50)/100)*(1-(15)/100)*(1-(8)/100))*(1-(10)/100)*(1-(20)/100)=23549*(0.70)*(0.5)*(0.85)*(0.92)*(0.9)*(0.8)=4640
So the example number I used there was picked by randomly smashing my keyboard, but as you can see it doesn't take a lot to reduce very high damage numbers to something very manageable.

Also, don't think blobs created the build, it's used from a LOOONG time, I jump on the blobs video visibilty to explain why the combinasion need to be nerfed.

Minno · January 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

And your resists in the calculator don't account for penetration. You'll find that number to drop hard once you take 17099 and subtract 15280 (ele drain+ sharp + light armor + CP points).

So you'll have to change 17099 to 1819 to get a better picture of mitigation in cyro against mag builds.

Edit:
As I thought, I'm only seeing 75% total mitigation with major protection on before block. With minor protection or maim that turns into 77% total mitigation. This is with 15280 penetration. Your target is still taking 4k DMG...

Conclusion: stack more armor pen.

Edit 2:
Buffed resists equal 7099 after penetration. Target is now at 77% total mitigation instead of 75%. Conclusion remains the same, stack more penetration.

ahahah, people don't run elemental drain in cyrodil as I told

Minno wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

And your resists in the calculator don't account for penetration. You'll find that number to drop hard once you take 17099 and subtract 15280 (ele drain+ sharp + light armor + CP points).

So you'll have to change 17099 to 1819 to get a better picture of mitigation in cyro against mag builds.

People don't use elemental drain, sharpened isn't used in most of the situtations, but let's play the game and take 10k magicka penetration so the imput in the calculator is 12379.

The damage is 3769, remember it's from a 20k tooltip, and the templar do nothing.

It's unbalanced, accpet it.

People should be using armor debuffs in the sharpened nerf meta though. Not my fault you aren't using the best tool in the game to increase dps on targets that have between 16000-21000 armor values.

Using elemental drain is link to destro staff, and most build in this game doesn't have acces to it, other with a destro staff doesn't have the place to use most of the time.

I took a 20k tooltip remember it's huge, and no one expect assassin's will and trollverload have that tooltip.

Accept it, this is overpowered.

Except it's not. Your also ignoring the mitigation of your other attacks.

For example since you are a Sorc in this example, I assume you also have force pulse/crushing shock slotted. If so, that's 10% armor debuff for cruising shock. If cruising shock deals 3k per element, that's 9k DMG? That's now 2237.9 armor removed in addition to the 15280 debuff earlier ( 5561 armor now)

Crushing sick would deal 2k DMG + 4400 from frags. Is that all your using? What about 15000 curse? So that's another 3-4k? That's what now 18k health gone off you get them chained together? Most builds are 21k health, that means they are in execute range.

I'm sorry but that looks balanced, assuming you hit a defile source somehow and can cc reliably with your unblockable 28 meter stun.

Joy_Division · January 2018

I do think the debuff from Pirate skeleton should be non purgable.

But that setup is not nearly as OP as is portrayed or compared to what else is in Cyrodiil.

It's not 45% because of diminishing returns and every class can attain the same supposed 45%. And it's not VERY HIGH damage because to get this, the Templar can't wear Valkyn Skoria set, which many templars wear even though they know perfectly well Pirate can be cleansed. The OP is including non-Templar things, again which are available to everyone, just to make the setup look overpowered like Argonian, Sword and Board blocking, Vampire.

Blobs is a great player and theorycrafter, but it's not like after 4 years of not playing a templar did he just magically find the best build other Templars were too dumb to come up with on their own.

Aedaryl · January 2018

Minno wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

And your resists in the calculator don't account for penetration. You'll find that number to drop hard once you take 17099 and subtract 15280 (ele drain+ sharp + light armor + CP points).

So you'll have to change 17099 to 1819 to get a better picture of mitigation in cyro against mag builds.

Edit:
As I thought, I'm only seeing 75% total mitigation with major protection on before block. With minor protection or maim that turns into 77% total mitigation. This is with 15280 penetration. Your target is still taking 4k DMG...

Conclusion: stack more armor pen.

Edit 2:
Buffed resists equal 7099 after penetration. Target is now at 77% total mitigation instead of 75%. Conclusion remains the same, stack more penetration.

ahahah, people don't run elemental drain in cyrodil as I told

Minno wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

And your resists in the calculator don't account for penetration. You'll find that number to drop hard once you take 17099 and subtract 15280 (ele drain+ sharp + light armor + CP points).

So you'll have to change 17099 to 1819 to get a better picture of mitigation in cyro against mag builds.

People don't use elemental drain, sharpened isn't used in most of the situtations, but let's play the game and take 10k magicka penetration so the imput in the calculator is 12379.

The damage is 3769, remember it's from a 20k tooltip, and the templar do nothing.

It's unbalanced, accpet it.

People should be using armor debuffs in the sharpened nerf meta though. Not my fault you aren't using the best tool in the game to increase dps on targets that have between 16000-21000 armor values.

Using elemental drain is link to destro staff, and most build in this game doesn't have acces to it, other with a destro staff doesn't have the place to use most of the time.

I took a 20k tooltip remember it's huge, and no one expect assassin's will and trollverload have that tooltip.

Accept it, this is overpowered.

Except it's not. Your also ignoring the mitigation of your other attacks.

For example since you are a Sorc in this example, I assume you also have force pulse/crushing shock slotted. If so, that's 10% armor debuff for cruising shock. If cruising shock deals 3k per element, that's 9k DMG? That's now 2237.9 armor removed in addition to the 15280 debuff earlier ( 5561 armor now)

Crushing sick would deal 2k DMG + 4400 from frags. Is that all your using? What about 15000 curse? So that's another 3-4k? That's what now 18k health gone off you get them chained together? Most builds are 21k health, that means they are in execute range.

I'm sorry but that looks balanced, assuming you hit a defile source somehow and can cc reliably with your unblockable 28 meter stun.

U don't use real numbers.

Let's take the calculator :

For 9k crushing shock tooltip on the 22379 - 10k from usual penetration - 2238 from destruction staff passive with have as result : 1771

For the frag if it have a 18k tooltip : it's 3543

If we add a 15500 curse it's : 3050

The total is 8364, blobs have 26 752 hp in the video, that's 31% of HP, considering he is doing nothing at all to conter the burst.

Aedaryl · January 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

I do think the debuff from Pirate skeleton should be non purgable.

But that setup is not nearly as OP as is portrayed or compared to what else is in Cyrodiil.

It's not 45% because of diminishing returns and every class can attain the same supposed 45%. And it's not VERY HIGH damage because to get this, the Templar can't wear Valkyn Skoria set, which many templars wear even though they know perfectly well Pirate can be cleansed. The OP is including non-Templar things, again which are available to everyone, just to make the setup look overpowered like Argonian, Sword and Board blocking, Vampire.

Blobs is a great player and theorycrafter, but it's not like after 4 years of not playing a templar did he just magically find the best build other Templars were too dumb to come up with on their own.

This set make templar very strong in our s&b tanking meta, it's not so much better than dk permablocking and stam tanking, but this set up is overpowered when you look at the 3 builds (mag sorc, mag NB and stam NB) that don't use s&b OP things.

As is said, blobs found nothing, he just show-off a meta already here.

Ashamray · January 2018

I also curious how, having 2 defensive sets like Pirate and Riposte (with bad regen or max mag) and only one offfensive set, someone can sit at 40k magicka, 3+k spelldamage and 2.5k recovery.
Explain this, @Aedaryl ?

Zer0oo · January 2018

You know you could actual test ingame? Also there are not many open world builds that have a spot for elem drain and even if you had, you could purge it.

Also as templer you could get minor protection on top of major.

Mihael · January 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Hello,

I don't know how ZoS didn't nerfed it yet, but there is a combo participating in the S&B block Tanky high damage stam { dk,sorc,warden,templar} and mag dk/templar that can be easely pointed out.

The perfect example for illustrate the OP garbage of this combo is magicka templar:

- Wizard riposte : 15% damage mitigation
- Pirate skeleton 30% damage mitigation
- + offensive set
- +Vampire
- + argonian
= 45% passive mitigation (add 33% from undead at low hp)
with more insane active mitigation when blocking ( 45% passive coupled with 70% from S&B with 8% if melee damage or 15% if ranged/projectile with 33% from undead if low hp)
3k+ spell damage
2.5k magicka recovery
40k magicka

The lol thing about that build is you can PURGE the debuff from pirate skeleton, so you have 45% free passive damage mitagtion. If you wonder how strong is it, you need to remember that the base block mitigation is 50%. That combo is almost like blocking ALL THE TIME with a non S&B weapon.

The problem of that build is the no downside. Sustain is infinite (purge remove cost poisons), the damage is VERY HIGH and you are almost immortal, the templar in trouble will go S&B, cast BoL/HoD and he will mitigate INSANE damage while going to 1% to 100% in a second.

This is how templar can be god in every PvP game mode : it's insane in 1v1, insane in small group, insane is large group, insane in 1vx.

This is not balanced at all. ZoS need to nerf it, the first step should be to make the debuff from pirate skeleton non purgeable.

Please make a Templar and actually play it for a good amount of time before you make post like this don’t just assume things