Is PASSIVE 35.6% less damage taken + 40k magicka & 3k SP balanced ?

Aedaryl

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well can Lore_Lai be ban pls ? Comming on a thread without argument for defending his so lovely class is just obvious and stupid.

If you wanted a detailed and thoughtful discussion about Templar balance, you might have began by not just watching a YouTube build and then claim it's OP without playing it and pointing to stuff that's either wrong/misleading or things that aren't even part of the Templar class.

If I were to come onto these forums and lobby ZoS to nerf your class, I'd at least have the courtesy to actually play it and provide context in comparison to what other classes can and can't do.

You didn't read, purging the debuff from pirate skeleton is a templar thing, since the other purge in the game is unused.

Tell me a how magicka sorcerer or a magicka NB can mitigate that much damage while having 3k spell damage and 40k magicka ? They can't. Also, if you think I want a templar nerf you are totaly wrong, I want Pirate skeleton nerf and 1h&S nerfs, I never said a templar skill or passive should be nerfed. This isn't a nerf templar thread, you people panic because it's a combo working on templar so you can't think and you just go defensive side by saying "everything is right", that's very stupid to not see what's op around his class.


To all people thinking purging pirate skeleton debuff, and so having major protection on high up time from a 2 pieces set without downside is balanced, then you seriously need to play something outside of 1&S meta.

paulsimonps

Aedaryl wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well can Lore_Lai be ban pls ? Comming on a thread without argument for defending his so lovely class is just obvious and stupid.

If you wanted a detailed and thoughtful discussion about Templar balance, you might have began by not just watching a YouTube build and then claim it's OP without playing it and pointing to stuff that's either wrong/misleading or things that aren't even part of the Templar class.

If I were to come onto these forums and lobby ZoS to nerf your class, I'd at least have the courtesy to actually play it and provide context in comparison to what other classes can and can't do.

You didn't read, purging the debuff from pirate skeleton is a templar thing, since the other purge in the game is unused.

Tell me a how magicka sorcerer or a magicka NB can mitigate that much damage while having 3k spell damage and 40k magicka ? They can't. Also, if you think I want a templar nerf you are totaly wrong, I want Pirate skeleton nerf and 1h&S nerfs, I never said a templar skill or passive should be nerfed. This isn't a nerf templar thread, you people panic because it's a combo working on templar so you can't think and you just go defensive side by saying "everything is right", that's very stupid to not see what's op around his class.


To all people thinking purging pirate skeleton debuff, and so having major protection on high up time from a 2 pieces set without downside is balanced, then you seriously need to play something outside of 1&S meta.

The Alliance skill purge is not unused not just used by common builds. Healer set ups is where you will find it. And I also want to point out that you complain about the amount of mitigation, in other words protection, that this templar combo can have and you say Sorcerer can't do the same? I mean its not like nerf shield stacking threads haven't been super common over the years. Magblades got a magicka based Major Evasion, lots of offensive healing and still uses damage shields, fair to say they got enough protection. Also Templars are probably the only magicka class to run this considering they are the least likely to use a damage shield, there are some that don't use any after all.

One big things is that mitigation is not the only way to get good protection, healing and damage shields and sustain matters A LOT as well. Magicka Wardens for example, a very powerful PvP Class(stamina is too), they got damage shields, great healing and access to a mobile Major Protection that also have lots of other benefits such as either higher magicka or a really powerful AoE Stun.

Yes, Pirate skeletons Minor Defile should be unpurgable but nothing other than that really needs changed. Its all that and many people with more knowledge about the specific build have already explained more. For some the minor defile is on them a lot anyway cause poisons are really common in PvP, more so in BGs as far as I can tell, and if they build for it in the right way they can still out heal things. So making it unpurgable won't make it an unuseable set. I mean there are non templars that do use this set. Again though I would not classify this as a nerf per say and more as a fix/change. For most people this change would be unnoticeable.

Zer0oo

Templers are bad in pvp and nerf sorcs.

forums

Glory

Aedaryl wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well can Lore_Lai be ban pls ? Comming on a thread without argument for defending his so lovely class is just obvious and stupid.

If you wanted a detailed and thoughtful discussion about Templar balance, you might have began by not just watching a YouTube build and then claim it's OP without playing it and pointing to stuff that's either wrong/misleading or things that aren't even part of the Templar class.

If I were to come onto these forums and lobby ZoS to nerf your class, I'd at least have the courtesy to actually play it and provide context in comparison to what other classes can and can't do.

You didn't read, purging the debuff from pirate skeleton is a templar thing, since the other purge in the game is unused.

Tell me a how magicka sorcerer or a magicka NB can mitigate that much damage while having 3k spell damage and 40k magicka ? They can't. Also, if you think I want a templar nerf you are totaly wrong, I want Pirate skeleton nerf and 1h&S nerfs, I never said a templar skill or passive should be nerfed. This isn't a nerf templar thread, you people panic because it's a combo working on templar so you can't think and you just go defensive side by saying "everything is right", that's very stupid to not see what's op around his class.


To all people thinking purging pirate skeleton debuff, and so having major protection on high up time from a 2 pieces set without downside is balanced, then you seriously need to play something outside of 1&S meta.

First you say Elemental Drain isn't used in PvP. It is, and it's extremely strong due to both magicka steal and huge penetration).

Then you say no one uses other purge options. Again, Efficient Purge is used in many setups and is an extremely strong skill (particularly in group situations).

Then you act like magicka sorcerer couldn't take advantage of Pirate Skeleton when that was literally the meta setup for many players due to the fact that Major Defile doesn't even matter on shield stacking setups.

I'm going to chalk this post up to not understanding how to properly make a build for yourself that isn't in some ways going to be perceived "broken."

Lore_lai

I don't even know where he got that we were saying that Pirate Skelly should not be fixed (aka. remain unpurgeable - which is definitely a bug, imo).
Looks like grasping at straws now.

Joy_Division

Aedaryl wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well can Lore_Lai be ban pls ? Comming on a thread without argument for defending his so lovely class is just obvious and stupid.

If you wanted a detailed and thoughtful discussion about Templar balance, you might have began by not just watching a YouTube build and then claim it's OP without playing it and pointing to stuff that's either wrong/misleading or things that aren't even part of the Templar class.

If I were to come onto these forums and lobby ZoS to nerf your class, I'd at least have the courtesy to actually play it and provide context in comparison to what other classes can and can't do.

You didn't read, purging the debuff from pirate skeleton is a templar thing, since the other purge in the game is unused.

Tell me a how magicka sorcerer or a magicka NB can mitigate that much damage while having 3k spell damage and 40k magicka ? They can't. Also, if you think I want a templar nerf you are totaly wrong, I want Pirate skeleton nerf and 1h&S nerfs, I never said a templar skill or passive should be nerfed. This isn't a nerf templar thread, you people panic because it's a combo working on templar so you can't think and you just go defensive side by saying "everything is right", that's very stupid to not see what's op around his class.


To all people thinking purging pirate skeleton debuff, and so having major protection on high up time from a 2 pieces set without downside is balanced, then you seriously need to play something outside of 1&S meta.

I did read.

I just don't accept as true your wrong assertions that skills such as elemental Drain and Efficient Purge are not used. They are used. You just say they aren't used because it's inconvenient to your nerf Templar agenda.

All your posts are about how a templar can't be countered or only templar can get this high damage and mitigation. A sorcerer with wizard riposte and shield stacking has very strong mitigation that does not get defiled is a much more dangerous burst threat than Blobs's Templar. A NB is not going to have that mitigation because it doesn't need it with Cloak and Teleport (though that needs to be fixed). The NB also has way more burst potential than the templar and the means to deliver it with an unblockable Fear. And that's not even getting into a Warden, who can wear the exact same gear as your templar, also purge the skeleton set, will have a higher magicka pool and thus better shield than a templar, has the strong Leeching vines skill that gives them two sources of HoTs, Trees, and offensive skills like Birds and Deep Fissure. People in this thread, who actually played templars and other classes, have been trying to tell you that the mechanics of the game make it possible and indeed not at all that difficult to use any class, magicka or stamina, and achieve very high levels or mitigation and damage. Have you seen a video of Kodi's Warden?

Just because I and others are correcting your mistaken posts and assumptions made about a build you didn't even play doesn't make us paranoid. I don't even use the Pirate skeleton set so I don't care if it nerfed.

Aedaryl

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well can Lore_Lai be ban pls ? Comming on a thread without argument for defending his so lovely class is just obvious and stupid.

If you wanted a detailed and thoughtful discussion about Templar balance, you might have began by not just watching a YouTube build and then claim it's OP without playing it and pointing to stuff that's either wrong/misleading or things that aren't even part of the Templar class.

If I were to come onto these forums and lobby ZoS to nerf your class, I'd at least have the courtesy to actually play it and provide context in comparison to what other classes can and can't do.

You didn't read, purging the debuff from pirate skeleton is a templar thing, since the other purge in the game is unused.

Tell me a how magicka sorcerer or a magicka NB can mitigate that much damage while having 3k spell damage and 40k magicka ? They can't. Also, if you think I want a templar nerf you are totaly wrong, I want Pirate skeleton nerf and 1h&S nerfs, I never said a templar skill or passive should be nerfed. This isn't a nerf templar thread, you people panic because it's a combo working on templar so you can't think and you just go defensive side by saying "everything is right", that's very stupid to not see what's op around his class.


To all people thinking purging pirate skeleton debuff, and so having major protection on high up time from a 2 pieces set without downside is balanced, then you seriously need to play something outside of 1&S meta.

I did read.

I just don't accept as true your wrong assertions that skills such as elemental Drain and Efficient Purge are not used. They are used. You just say they aren't used because it's inconvenient to your nerf Templar agenda.

All your posts are about how a templar can't be countered or only templar can get this high damage and mitigation. A sorcerer with wizard riposte and shield stacking has very strong mitigation that does not get defiled is a much more dangerous burst threat than Blobs's Templar. A NB is not going to have that mitigation because it doesn't need it with Cloak and Teleport (though that needs to be fixed). The NB also has way more burst potential than the templar and the means to deliver it with an unblockable Fear. And that's not even getting into a Warden, who can wear the exact same gear as your templar, also purge the skeleton set, will have a higher magicka pool and thus better shield than a templar, has the strong Leeching vines skill that gives them two sources of HoTs, Trees, and offensive skills like Birds and Deep Fissure. People in this thread, who actually played templars and other classes, have been trying to tell you that the mechanics of the game make it possible and indeed not at all that difficult to use any class, magicka or stamina, and achieve very high levels or mitigation and damage. Have you seen a video of Kodi's Warden?

Just because I and others are correcting your mistaken posts and assumptions made about a build you didn't even play doesn't make us paranoid. I don't even use the Pirate skeleton set so I don't care if it nerfed.

You are so wrong, really.

With the recent frag nerf, most sorcerer build doesn't use elemental drain because they are using flame clench.
I love elemental drain, but you can't say elemental drain is a commun skill used by sorc and NB. Just don't lie.

And no one run efficient purge expect healers.

Find me youtube builds with efficient purge that aren't healer build.

Sorc and mNB are TRASH in this meta, you can't say the opposite, the meta is all about tanking with 1h&S, you know it. If you don't block with 1&S you can't perform well in this meta. This is because Magicka sorc and magicka NB are damage shield user, and damage shield system is too weak in a block meta. And stamina NB evade/burst gameplay is too weak in a Block meta.

They are other way to mitigate damage, like I said, and they are all overpowered when you look what non 1h&S block user have.
That pirate skeleton one is the most easy to fix and to find, that's why I made this thread.

"All your posts are about how a templar can't be countered or only templar can get this high damage and mitigation"
What's your point guys ? You are trying to say I hate templar and I want them nerfed, but I never say that, like I never say people can't have the same Mitigation my point is having that mitagtion passively is not possible without this combo that work mainly on templar. 1&S can have better mitigation, but the special thing about the combo is templar have 36 % less damage PASSIVELY, when others mitigate ACTIVElY with block. I never said templar can't be countered, just quote a post where I said it. You can't cuz I said templar can be countered, but not the Major protection + minor main thing.

For glory, when Pirate skeleton was procing on shields, it was OP and was the first to say it. Pirate skeleton purgeable debuff is OP and I'm still the first to say it.

Waffennacht

Dude... You're gonna hate some of these new builds.

@Adenoma is working on something that's gonna make you hate major anything lol

Aedaryl

Waffennacht wrote: »

Dude... You're gonna hate some of these new builds.

@Adenoma is working on something that's gonna make you hate major anything lol

Well, the new set that increase buff duration will be nerfed, maybe the Adenoma build will not work. I will be happy if he find a build that compete with 1h&S block build without using it.

Minno

Aedaryl wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Dude... You're gonna hate some of these new builds.

@Adenoma is working on something that's gonna make you hate major anything lol

Well, the new set that increase buff duration will be nerfed, maybe the Adenoma build will not work. I will be happy if he find a build that compete with 1h&S block build without using it.

The buff set is going to be nerfed because PVE folks were going to use it to buff the timer of warhorn minor/major buffs lol
(and maybe because I found that it gives pirate skele a 7 second cooldown due to the buff duration being increased by 16.8 seconds.)

Waffennacht

Is it gonna be nerfed? I dunno, kinda doubt it

Adenoma

I don't know if they'll change that set. It's good in PvE and might change the healer meta, but I don't have enough experience to really say anything about that sphere.

What I can say is that post-testing I'll be running a build with a reliable 4k spell damage without continuous attack, effective 2.2k magicka recovery, effective 1k stamina recovery, minor vulnerability on targets, and the majority of the time (80%+) I'll have access to most of the relevant major buffs besides major berserk.

That seems okay with me. I don't know of a block-centered build that will maintain a similar damage output. I don't think I'll be significantly less tanky, especially with my normal play-partner who keeps up transmutation and wizard's riposte. It's a lot of just inherent mitigation with terrifying offensive ability.

Waffennacht

First thoughts are honestly:

Pirate obv
Trickery
Haas jam (sp?) The major berserk (oddest one imo)
Those minor Passives of NBs Temps and Sorcs
Warden obv
NB major expedition
Bow Expedition?

First thoughts anyway

Lexxypwns

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well can Lore_Lai be ban pls ? Comming on a thread without argument for defending his so lovely class is just obvious and stupid.

If you wanted a detailed and thoughtful discussion about Templar balance, you might have began by not just watching a YouTube build and then claim it's OP without playing it and pointing to stuff that's either wrong/misleading or things that aren't even part of the Templar class.

If I were to come onto these forums and lobby ZoS to nerf your class, I'd at least have the courtesy to actually play it and provide context in comparison to what other classes can and can't do.

You didn't read, purging the debuff from pirate skeleton is a templar thing, since the other purge in the game is unused.

Tell me a how magicka sorcerer or a magicka NB can mitigate that much damage while having 3k spell damage and 40k magicka ? They can't. Also, if you think I want a templar nerf you are totaly wrong, I want Pirate skeleton nerf and 1h&S nerfs, I never said a templar skill or passive should be nerfed. This isn't a nerf templar thread, you people panic because it's a combo working on templar so you can't think and you just go defensive side by saying "everything is right", that's very stupid to not see what's op around his class.


To all people thinking purging pirate skeleton debuff, and so having major protection on high up time from a 2 pieces set without downside is balanced, then you seriously need to play something outside of 1&S meta.

I did read.

I just don't accept as true your wrong assertions that skills such as elemental Drain and Efficient Purge are not used. They are used. You just say they aren't used because it's inconvenient to your nerf Templar agenda.

All your posts are about how a templar can't be countered or only templar can get this high damage and mitigation. A sorcerer with wizard riposte and shield stacking has very strong mitigation that does not get defiled is a much more dangerous burst threat than Blobs's Templar. A NB is not going to have that mitigation because it doesn't need it with Cloak and Teleport (though that needs to be fixed). The NB also has way more burst potential than the templar and the means to deliver it with an unblockable Fear. And that's not even getting into a Warden, who can wear the exact same gear as your templar, also purge the skeleton set, will have a higher magicka pool and thus better shield than a templar, has the strong Leeching vines skill that gives them two sources of HoTs, Trees, and offensive skills like Birds and Deep Fissure. People in this thread, who actually played templars and other classes, have been trying to tell you that the mechanics of the game make it possible and indeed not at all that difficult to use any class, magicka or stamina, and achieve very high levels or mitigation and damage. Have you seen a video of Kodi's Warden?

Just because I and others are correcting your mistaken posts and assumptions made about a build you didn't even play doesn't make us paranoid. I don't even use the Pirate skeleton set so I don't care if it nerfed.

Warden can run

Aedaryl wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well can Lore_Lai be ban pls ? Comming on a thread without argument for defending his so lovely class is just obvious and stupid.

If you wanted a detailed and thoughtful discussion about Templar balance, you might have began by not just watching a YouTube build and then claim it's OP without playing it and pointing to stuff that's either wrong/misleading or things that aren't even part of the Templar class.

If I were to come onto these forums and lobby ZoS to nerf your class, I'd at least have the courtesy to actually play it and provide context in comparison to what other classes can and can't do.

You didn't read, purging the debuff from pirate skeleton is a templar thing, since the other purge in the game is unused.

Tell me a how magicka sorcerer or a magicka NB can mitigate that much damage while having 3k spell damage and 40k magicka ? They can't. Also, if you think I want a templar nerf you are totaly wrong, I want Pirate skeleton nerf and 1h&S nerfs, I never said a templar skill or passive should be nerfed. This isn't a nerf templar thread, you people panic because it's a combo working on templar so you can't think and you just go defensive side by saying "everything is right", that's very stupid to not see what's op around his class.


To all people thinking purging pirate skeleton debuff, and so having major protection on high up time from a 2 pieces set without downside is balanced, then you seriously need to play something outside of 1&S meta.

I did read.

I just don't accept as true your wrong assertions that skills such as elemental Drain and Efficient Purge are not used. They are used. You just say they aren't used because it's inconvenient to your nerf Templar agenda.

All your posts are about how a templar can't be countered or only templar can get this high damage and mitigation. A sorcerer with wizard riposte and shield stacking has very strong mitigation that does not get defiled is a much more dangerous burst threat than Blobs's Templar. A NB is not going to have that mitigation because it doesn't need it with Cloak and Teleport (though that needs to be fixed). The NB also has way more burst potential than the templar and the means to deliver it with an unblockable Fear. And that's not even getting into a Warden, who can wear the exact same gear as your templar, also purge the skeleton set, will have a higher magicka pool and thus better shield than a templar, has the strong Leeching vines skill that gives them two sources of HoTs, Trees, and offensive skills like Birds and Deep Fissure. People in this thread, who actually played templars and other classes, have been trying to tell you that the mechanics of the game make it possible and indeed not at all that difficult to use any class, magicka or stamina, and achieve very high levels or mitigation and damage. Have you seen a video of Kodi's Warden?

Just because I and others are correcting your mistaken posts and assumptions made about a build you didn't even play doesn't make us paranoid. I don't even use the Pirate skeleton set so I don't care if it nerfed.

You are so wrong, really.

With the recent frag nerf, most sorcerer build doesn't use elemental drain because they are using flame clench.
I love elemental drain, but you can't say elemental drain is a commun skill used by sorc and NB. Just don't lie.

And no one run efficient purge expect healers.

Find me youtube builds with efficient purge that aren't healer build.

Sorc and mNB are TRASH in this meta, you can't say the opposite, the meta is all about tanking with 1h&S, you know it. If you don't block with 1&S you can't perform well in this meta. This is because Magicka sorc and magicka NB are damage shield user, and damage shield system is too weak in a block meta. And stamina NB evade/burst gameplay is too weak in a Block meta.

They are other way to mitigate damage, like I said, and they are all overpowered when you look what non 1h&S block user have.
That pirate skeleton one is the most easy to fix and to find, that's why I made this thread.

"All your posts are about how a templar can't be countered or only templar can get this high damage and mitigation"
What's your point guys ? You are trying to say I hate templar and I want them nerfed, but I never say that, like I never say people can't have the same Mitigation my point is having that mitagtion passively is not possible without this combo that work mainly on templar. 1&S can have better mitigation, but the special thing about the combo is templar have 36 % less damage PASSIVELY, when others mitigate ACTIVElY with block. I never said templar can't be countered, just quote a post where I said it. You can't cuz I said templar can be countered, but not the Major protection + minor main thing.

For glory, when Pirate skeleton was procing on shields, it was OP and was the first to say it. Pirate skeleton purgeable debuff is OP and I'm still the first to say it.

Mageblade is absurdly strong this patch and has been for a few patches

Brutusmax1mus

Waffennacht wrote: »

First thoughts are honestly:

Pirate obv
Trickery
Haas jam (sp?) The major berserk (oddest one imo)
Those minor Passives of NBs Temps and Sorcs
Warden obv
NB major expedition
Bow Expedition?

First thoughts anyway

I don't think anyone wearing jorvoulds(?) and trickery will be killing anyone. Heem Jas would only get 1.2 seconds increased, so blah. I wish trickery and jorvulds were more neutral in stamina vs magicka, it could have been so fun.

Waffennacht

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

First thoughts are honestly:

Pirate obv
Trickery
Haas jam (sp?) The major berserk (oddest one imo)
Those minor Passives of NBs Temps and Sorcs
Warden obv
NB major expedition
Bow Expedition?

First thoughts anyway

I don't think anyone wearing jorvoulds(?) and trickery will be killing anyone. Heem Jas would only get 1.2 seconds increased, so blah. I wish trickery and jorvulds were more neutral in stamina vs magicka, it could have been so fun.

Oh it'll kill glass cannons! Which is most potatoes.

The mag recovery of Jor allows for apprentice, and you can use spell DMG Glyphs.

I would like the idea on a Templar, with Skoria for burst. More tanky than offensive, but like I said, mash them potatoes lol

Edit: if some how you could get around the snare Ironblood could make for some interesting tank ideas

Aedaryl

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well can Lore_Lai be ban pls ? Comming on a thread without argument for defending his so lovely class is just obvious and stupid.

If you wanted a detailed and thoughtful discussion about Templar balance, you might have began by not just watching a YouTube build and then claim it's OP without playing it and pointing to stuff that's either wrong/misleading or things that aren't even part of the Templar class.

If I were to come onto these forums and lobby ZoS to nerf your class, I'd at least have the courtesy to actually play it and provide context in comparison to what other classes can and can't do.

You didn't read, purging the debuff from pirate skeleton is a templar thing, since the other purge in the game is unused.

Tell me a how magicka sorcerer or a magicka NB can mitigate that much damage while having 3k spell damage and 40k magicka ? They can't. Also, if you think I want a templar nerf you are totaly wrong, I want Pirate skeleton nerf and 1h&S nerfs, I never said a templar skill or passive should be nerfed. This isn't a nerf templar thread, you people panic because it's a combo working on templar so you can't think and you just go defensive side by saying "everything is right", that's very stupid to not see what's op around his class.


To all people thinking purging pirate skeleton debuff, and so having major protection on high up time from a 2 pieces set without downside is balanced, then you seriously need to play something outside of 1&S meta.

I did read.

I just don't accept as true your wrong assertions that skills such as elemental Drain and Efficient Purge are not used. They are used. You just say they aren't used because it's inconvenient to your nerf Templar agenda.

All your posts are about how a templar can't be countered or only templar can get this high damage and mitigation. A sorcerer with wizard riposte and shield stacking has very strong mitigation that does not get defiled is a much more dangerous burst threat than Blobs's Templar. A NB is not going to have that mitigation because it doesn't need it with Cloak and Teleport (though that needs to be fixed). The NB also has way more burst potential than the templar and the means to deliver it with an unblockable Fear. And that's not even getting into a Warden, who can wear the exact same gear as your templar, also purge the skeleton set, will have a higher magicka pool and thus better shield than a templar, has the strong Leeching vines skill that gives them two sources of HoTs, Trees, and offensive skills like Birds and Deep Fissure. People in this thread, who actually played templars and other classes, have been trying to tell you that the mechanics of the game make it possible and indeed not at all that difficult to use any class, magicka or stamina, and achieve very high levels or mitigation and damage. Have you seen a video of Kodi's Warden?

Just because I and others are correcting your mistaken posts and assumptions made about a build you didn't even play doesn't make us paranoid. I don't even use the Pirate skeleton set so I don't care if it nerfed.

Warden can run

Aedaryl wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well can Lore_Lai be ban pls ? Comming on a thread without argument for defending his so lovely class is just obvious and stupid.

If you wanted a detailed and thoughtful discussion about Templar balance, you might have began by not just watching a YouTube build and then claim it's OP without playing it and pointing to stuff that's either wrong/misleading or things that aren't even part of the Templar class.

If I were to come onto these forums and lobby ZoS to nerf your class, I'd at least have the courtesy to actually play it and provide context in comparison to what other classes can and can't do.

You didn't read, purging the debuff from pirate skeleton is a templar thing, since the other purge in the game is unused.

Tell me a how magicka sorcerer or a magicka NB can mitigate that much damage while having 3k spell damage and 40k magicka ? They can't. Also, if you think I want a templar nerf you are totaly wrong, I want Pirate skeleton nerf and 1h&S nerfs, I never said a templar skill or passive should be nerfed. This isn't a nerf templar thread, you people panic because it's a combo working on templar so you can't think and you just go defensive side by saying "everything is right", that's very stupid to not see what's op around his class.


To all people thinking purging pirate skeleton debuff, and so having major protection on high up time from a 2 pieces set without downside is balanced, then you seriously need to play something outside of 1&S meta.

I did read.

I just don't accept as true your wrong assertions that skills such as elemental Drain and Efficient Purge are not used. They are used. You just say they aren't used because it's inconvenient to your nerf Templar agenda.

All your posts are about how a templar can't be countered or only templar can get this high damage and mitigation. A sorcerer with wizard riposte and shield stacking has very strong mitigation that does not get defiled is a much more dangerous burst threat than Blobs's Templar. A NB is not going to have that mitigation because it doesn't need it with Cloak and Teleport (though that needs to be fixed). The NB also has way more burst potential than the templar and the means to deliver it with an unblockable Fear. And that's not even getting into a Warden, who can wear the exact same gear as your templar, also purge the skeleton set, will have a higher magicka pool and thus better shield than a templar, has the strong Leeching vines skill that gives them two sources of HoTs, Trees, and offensive skills like Birds and Deep Fissure. People in this thread, who actually played templars and other classes, have been trying to tell you that the mechanics of the game make it possible and indeed not at all that difficult to use any class, magicka or stamina, and achieve very high levels or mitigation and damage. Have you seen a video of Kodi's Warden?

Just because I and others are correcting your mistaken posts and assumptions made about a build you didn't even play doesn't make us paranoid. I don't even use the Pirate skeleton set so I don't care if it nerfed.

You are so wrong, really.

With the recent frag nerf, most sorcerer build doesn't use elemental drain because they are using flame clench.
I love elemental drain, but you can't say elemental drain is a commun skill used by sorc and NB. Just don't lie.

And no one run efficient purge expect healers.

Find me youtube builds with efficient purge that aren't healer build.

Sorc and mNB are TRASH in this meta, you can't say the opposite, the meta is all about tanking with 1h&S, you know it. If you don't block with 1&S you can't perform well in this meta. This is because Magicka sorc and magicka NB are damage shield user, and damage shield system is too weak in a block meta. And stamina NB evade/burst gameplay is too weak in a Block meta.

They are other way to mitigate damage, like I said, and they are all overpowered when you look what non 1h&S block user have.
That pirate skeleton one is the most easy to fix and to find, that's why I made this thread.

"All your posts are about how a templar can't be countered or only templar can get this high damage and mitigation"
What's your point guys ? You are trying to say I hate templar and I want them nerfed, but I never say that, like I never say people can't have the same Mitigation my point is having that mitagtion passively is not possible without this combo that work mainly on templar. 1&S can have better mitigation, but the special thing about the combo is templar have 36 % less damage PASSIVELY, when others mitigate ACTIVElY with block. I never said templar can't be countered, just quote a post where I said it. You can't cuz I said templar can be countered, but not the Major protection + minor main thing.

For glory, when Pirate skeleton was procing on shields, it was OP and was the first to say it. Pirate skeleton purgeable debuff is OP and I'm still the first to say it.

Mageblade is absurdly strong this patch and has been for a few patches

Magicka NB is king in duel, with a duel build, but that's all. You don't see magicka NB tanking 6 people and kill them all like 1h&S build can do.

Lexxypwns

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well can Lore_Lai be ban pls ? Comming on a thread without argument for defending his so lovely class is just obvious and stupid.

If you wanted a detailed and thoughtful discussion about Templar balance, you might have began by not just watching a YouTube build and then claim it's OP without playing it and pointing to stuff that's either wrong/misleading or things that aren't even part of the Templar class.

If I were to come onto these forums and lobby ZoS to nerf your class, I'd at least have the courtesy to actually play it and provide context in comparison to what other classes can and can't do.

You didn't read, purging the debuff from pirate skeleton is a templar thing, since the other purge in the game is unused.

Tell me a how magicka sorcerer or a magicka NB can mitigate that much damage while having 3k spell damage and 40k magicka ? They can't. Also, if you think I want a templar nerf you are totaly wrong, I want Pirate skeleton nerf and 1h&S nerfs, I never said a templar skill or passive should be nerfed. This isn't a nerf templar thread, you people panic because it's a combo working on templar so you can't think and you just go defensive side by saying "everything is right", that's very stupid to not see what's op around his class.


To all people thinking purging pirate skeleton debuff, and so having major protection on high up time from a 2 pieces set without downside is balanced, then you seriously need to play something outside of 1&S meta.

I did read.

I just don't accept as true your wrong assertions that skills such as elemental Drain and Efficient Purge are not used. They are used. You just say they aren't used because it's inconvenient to your nerf Templar agenda.

All your posts are about how a templar can't be countered or only templar can get this high damage and mitigation. A sorcerer with wizard riposte and shield stacking has very strong mitigation that does not get defiled is a much more dangerous burst threat than Blobs's Templar. A NB is not going to have that mitigation because it doesn't need it with Cloak and Teleport (though that needs to be fixed). The NB also has way more burst potential than the templar and the means to deliver it with an unblockable Fear. And that's not even getting into a Warden, who can wear the exact same gear as your templar, also purge the skeleton set, will have a higher magicka pool and thus better shield than a templar, has the strong Leeching vines skill that gives them two sources of HoTs, Trees, and offensive skills like Birds and Deep Fissure. People in this thread, who actually played templars and other classes, have been trying to tell you that the mechanics of the game make it possible and indeed not at all that difficult to use any class, magicka or stamina, and achieve very high levels or mitigation and damage. Have you seen a video of Kodi's Warden?

Just because I and others are correcting your mistaken posts and assumptions made about a build you didn't even play doesn't make us paranoid. I don't even use the Pirate skeleton set so I don't care if it nerfed.

Warden can run

Aedaryl wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well can Lore_Lai be ban pls ? Comming on a thread without argument for defending his so lovely class is just obvious and stupid.

If you wanted a detailed and thoughtful discussion about Templar balance, you might have began by not just watching a YouTube build and then claim it's OP without playing it and pointing to stuff that's either wrong/misleading or things that aren't even part of the Templar class.

If I were to come onto these forums and lobby ZoS to nerf your class, I'd at least have the courtesy to actually play it and provide context in comparison to what other classes can and can't do.

You didn't read, purging the debuff from pirate skeleton is a templar thing, since the other purge in the game is unused.

Tell me a how magicka sorcerer or a magicka NB can mitigate that much damage while having 3k spell damage and 40k magicka ? They can't. Also, if you think I want a templar nerf you are totaly wrong, I want Pirate skeleton nerf and 1h&S nerfs, I never said a templar skill or passive should be nerfed. This isn't a nerf templar thread, you people panic because it's a combo working on templar so you can't think and you just go defensive side by saying "everything is right", that's very stupid to not see what's op around his class.


To all people thinking purging pirate skeleton debuff, and so having major protection on high up time from a 2 pieces set without downside is balanced, then you seriously need to play something outside of 1&S meta.

I did read.

I just don't accept as true your wrong assertions that skills such as elemental Drain and Efficient Purge are not used. They are used. You just say they aren't used because it's inconvenient to your nerf Templar agenda.

All your posts are about how a templar can't be countered or only templar can get this high damage and mitigation. A sorcerer with wizard riposte and shield stacking has very strong mitigation that does not get defiled is a much more dangerous burst threat than Blobs's Templar. A NB is not going to have that mitigation because it doesn't need it with Cloak and Teleport (though that needs to be fixed). The NB also has way more burst potential than the templar and the means to deliver it with an unblockable Fear. And that's not even getting into a Warden, who can wear the exact same gear as your templar, also purge the skeleton set, will have a higher magicka pool and thus better shield than a templar, has the strong Leeching vines skill that gives them two sources of HoTs, Trees, and offensive skills like Birds and Deep Fissure. People in this thread, who actually played templars and other classes, have been trying to tell you that the mechanics of the game make it possible and indeed not at all that difficult to use any class, magicka or stamina, and achieve very high levels or mitigation and damage. Have you seen a video of Kodi's Warden?

Just because I and others are correcting your mistaken posts and assumptions made about a build you didn't even play doesn't make us paranoid. I don't even use the Pirate skeleton set so I don't care if it nerfed.

You are so wrong, really.

With the recent frag nerf, most sorcerer build doesn't use elemental drain because they are using flame clench.
I love elemental drain, but you can't say elemental drain is a commun skill used by sorc and NB. Just don't lie.

And no one run efficient purge expect healers.

Find me youtube builds with efficient purge that aren't healer build.

Sorc and mNB are TRASH in this meta, you can't say the opposite, the meta is all about tanking with 1h&S, you know it. If you don't block with 1&S you can't perform well in this meta. This is because Magicka sorc and magicka NB are damage shield user, and damage shield system is too weak in a block meta. And stamina NB evade/burst gameplay is too weak in a Block meta.

They are other way to mitigate damage, like I said, and they are all overpowered when you look what non 1h&S block user have.
That pirate skeleton one is the most easy to fix and to find, that's why I made this thread.

"All your posts are about how a templar can't be countered or only templar can get this high damage and mitigation"
What's your point guys ? You are trying to say I hate templar and I want them nerfed, but I never say that, like I never say people can't have the same Mitigation my point is having that mitagtion passively is not possible without this combo that work mainly on templar. 1&S can have better mitigation, but the special thing about the combo is templar have 36 % less damage PASSIVELY, when others mitigate ACTIVElY with block. I never said templar can't be countered, just quote a post where I said it. You can't cuz I said templar can be countered, but not the Major protection + minor main thing.

For glory, when Pirate skeleton was procing on shields, it was OP and was the first to say it. Pirate skeleton purgeable debuff is OP and I'm still the first to say it.

Mageblade is absurdly strong this patch and has been for a few patches

Magicka NB is king in duel, with a duel build, but that's all. You don't see magicka NB tanking 6 people and kill them all like 1h&S build can do.

Can kite and burst 1v6 on mageblade tho

paulsimonps

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well can Lore_Lai be ban pls ? Comming on a thread without argument for defending his so lovely class is just obvious and stupid.

If you wanted a detailed and thoughtful discussion about Templar balance, you might have began by not just watching a YouTube build and then claim it's OP without playing it and pointing to stuff that's either wrong/misleading or things that aren't even part of the Templar class.

If I were to come onto these forums and lobby ZoS to nerf your class, I'd at least have the courtesy to actually play it and provide context in comparison to what other classes can and can't do.

You didn't read, purging the debuff from pirate skeleton is a templar thing, since the other purge in the game is unused.

Tell me a how magicka sorcerer or a magicka NB can mitigate that much damage while having 3k spell damage and 40k magicka ? They can't. Also, if you think I want a templar nerf you are totaly wrong, I want Pirate skeleton nerf and 1h&S nerfs, I never said a templar skill or passive should be nerfed. This isn't a nerf templar thread, you people panic because it's a combo working on templar so you can't think and you just go defensive side by saying "everything is right", that's very stupid to not see what's op around his class.


To all people thinking purging pirate skeleton debuff, and so having major protection on high up time from a 2 pieces set without downside is balanced, then you seriously need to play something outside of 1&S meta.

I did read.

I just don't accept as true your wrong assertions that skills such as elemental Drain and Efficient Purge are not used. They are used. You just say they aren't used because it's inconvenient to your nerf Templar agenda.

All your posts are about how a templar can't be countered or only templar can get this high damage and mitigation. A sorcerer with wizard riposte and shield stacking has very strong mitigation that does not get defiled is a much more dangerous burst threat than Blobs's Templar. A NB is not going to have that mitigation because it doesn't need it with Cloak and Teleport (though that needs to be fixed). The NB also has way more burst potential than the templar and the means to deliver it with an unblockable Fear. And that's not even getting into a Warden, who can wear the exact same gear as your templar, also purge the skeleton set, will have a higher magicka pool and thus better shield than a templar, has the strong Leeching vines skill that gives them two sources of HoTs, Trees, and offensive skills like Birds and Deep Fissure. People in this thread, who actually played templars and other classes, have been trying to tell you that the mechanics of the game make it possible and indeed not at all that difficult to use any class, magicka or stamina, and achieve very high levels or mitigation and damage. Have you seen a video of Kodi's Warden?

Just because I and others are correcting your mistaken posts and assumptions made about a build you didn't even play doesn't make us paranoid. I don't even use the Pirate skeleton set so I don't care if it nerfed.

Warden can run

Aedaryl wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Well can Lore_Lai be ban pls ? Comming on a thread without argument for defending his so lovely class is just obvious and stupid.

If you wanted a detailed and thoughtful discussion about Templar balance, you might have began by not just watching a YouTube build and then claim it's OP without playing it and pointing to stuff that's either wrong/misleading or things that aren't even part of the Templar class.

If I were to come onto these forums and lobby ZoS to nerf your class, I'd at least have the courtesy to actually play it and provide context in comparison to what other classes can and can't do.

You didn't read, purging the debuff from pirate skeleton is a templar thing, since the other purge in the game is unused.

Tell me a how magicka sorcerer or a magicka NB can mitigate that much damage while having 3k spell damage and 40k magicka ? They can't. Also, if you think I want a templar nerf you are totaly wrong, I want Pirate skeleton nerf and 1h&S nerfs, I never said a templar skill or passive should be nerfed. This isn't a nerf templar thread, you people panic because it's a combo working on templar so you can't think and you just go defensive side by saying "everything is right", that's very stupid to not see what's op around his class.


To all people thinking purging pirate skeleton debuff, and so having major protection on high up time from a 2 pieces set without downside is balanced, then you seriously need to play something outside of 1&S meta.

I did read.

I just don't accept as true your wrong assertions that skills such as elemental Drain and Efficient Purge are not used. They are used. You just say they aren't used because it's inconvenient to your nerf Templar agenda.

All your posts are about how a templar can't be countered or only templar can get this high damage and mitigation. A sorcerer with wizard riposte and shield stacking has very strong mitigation that does not get defiled is a much more dangerous burst threat than Blobs's Templar. A NB is not going to have that mitigation because it doesn't need it with Cloak and Teleport (though that needs to be fixed). The NB also has way more burst potential than the templar and the means to deliver it with an unblockable Fear. And that's not even getting into a Warden, who can wear the exact same gear as your templar, also purge the skeleton set, will have a higher magicka pool and thus better shield than a templar, has the strong Leeching vines skill that gives them two sources of HoTs, Trees, and offensive skills like Birds and Deep Fissure. People in this thread, who actually played templars and other classes, have been trying to tell you that the mechanics of the game make it possible and indeed not at all that difficult to use any class, magicka or stamina, and achieve very high levels or mitigation and damage. Have you seen a video of Kodi's Warden?

Just because I and others are correcting your mistaken posts and assumptions made about a build you didn't even play doesn't make us paranoid. I don't even use the Pirate skeleton set so I don't care if it nerfed.

You are so wrong, really.

With the recent frag nerf, most sorcerer build doesn't use elemental drain because they are using flame clench.
I love elemental drain, but you can't say elemental drain is a commun skill used by sorc and NB. Just don't lie.

And no one run efficient purge expect healers.

Find me youtube builds with efficient purge that aren't healer build.

Sorc and mNB are TRASH in this meta, you can't say the opposite, the meta is all about tanking with 1h&S, you know it. If you don't block with 1&S you can't perform well in this meta. This is because Magicka sorc and magicka NB are damage shield user, and damage shield system is too weak in a block meta. And stamina NB evade/burst gameplay is too weak in a Block meta.

They are other way to mitigate damage, like I said, and they are all overpowered when you look what non 1h&S block user have.
That pirate skeleton one is the most easy to fix and to find, that's why I made this thread.

"All your posts are about how a templar can't be countered or only templar can get this high damage and mitigation"
What's your point guys ? You are trying to say I hate templar and I want them nerfed, but I never say that, like I never say people can't have the same Mitigation my point is having that mitagtion passively is not possible without this combo that work mainly on templar. 1&S can have better mitigation, but the special thing about the combo is templar have 36 % less damage PASSIVELY, when others mitigate ACTIVElY with block. I never said templar can't be countered, just quote a post where I said it. You can't cuz I said templar can be countered, but not the Major protection + minor main thing.

For glory, when Pirate skeleton was procing on shields, it was OP and was the first to say it. Pirate skeleton purgeable debuff is OP and I'm still the first to say it.

Mageblade is absurdly strong this patch and has been for a few patches

Magicka NB is king in duel, with a duel build, but that's all. You don't see magicka NB tanking 6 people and kill them all like 1h&S build can do.

Can kite and burst 1v6 on mageblade tho

Indeed its a different playstyle but still works. And lets not forget the ever so amusing Bomb-blade as well.

Izaki

The overreaction over something very common in this thread is very funny

kaithuzar

Really feel like there are points both sides are making that I can agree with but regarding magblade specifically, I can tank 6 dudes but killing more than 1 is difficult due to how defensive I have to play with shade broken. It also depends on skill level, I can tank avg 6 mixed or 12 scrubs or 2 good players

I really feel this is a damage mitigation meta, everyone is talking about it, everyone is focused on it, but finding the line between mitigation & damage is tough; especially if you want to have any sustain

Minno

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

First thoughts are honestly:

Pirate obv
Trickery
Haas jam (sp?) The major berserk (oddest one imo)
Those minor Passives of NBs Temps and Sorcs
Warden obv
NB major expedition
Bow Expedition?

First thoughts anyway

I don't think anyone wearing jorvoulds(?) and trickery will be killing anyone. Heem Jas would only get 1.2 seconds increased, so blah. I wish trickery and jorvulds were more neutral in stamina vs magicka, it could have been so fun.

Oh it'll kill glass cannons! Which is most potatoes.

The mag recovery of Jor allows for apprentice, and you can use spell DMG Glyphs.

I would like the idea on a Templar, with Skoria for burst. More tanky than offensive, but like I said, mash them potatoes lol

Edit: if some how you could get around the snare Ironblood could make for some interesting tank ideas

Jour buffs trickery?

kaithuzar wrote: »

Really feel like there are points both sides are making that I can agree with but regarding magblade specifically, I can tank 6 dudes but killing more than 1 is difficult due to how defensive I have to play with shade broken. It also depends on skill level, I can tank avg 6 mixed or 12 scrubs or 2 good players

I really feel this is a damage mitigation meta, everyone is talking about it, everyone is focused on it, but finding the line between mitigation & damage is tough; especially if you want to have any sustain

For mag builds, we are in a meta that assumes you can Jerry rig your offense onto light armor while sealing up the defense hole with 1-2 defensive sets. Easy crit chance and 4k pen is hard to find outside separate 5pc sets.

Kas

i'd really love to see pirate skeleton fixed so that:
1) you get no weapon swap trouble in skel form and
2) you cannot use disguises to avoid transformation

--> counter play without tracking enemy positive buffs (which is insanely annoying otherwise).

Maura_Neysa

Sharee wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

The base mitigation when you block is 50% s&B add 20% more in a passive.

I always thought this as well, but recently i was looking through a log where i got hit by an attack, got block up, got hit by the same attack again, and the second one only did 27% less damage.

This was on a DK in light armor blocking with a resto staff. DK even gets a passive for more damage mitigation from blocking. Makes me wonder if the base block mitigation got changed somehow.

Vet Bloodroot Forge, Amalgamation, Heavy Attack - 20k blocked 66k unblocked. It 60% (50% base then 20% remaining. exp 10k Heavy Attack is 5k after 50%, then 20% would be 1k leaving 4k to actually it health

To the OP, Templars are amazingly Tanky. DK only beat them because of the group utility skills. Yes that build has good survivability but not a lot of burst. Templars are fine

Subversus

Lexxypwns wrote: »

You know how hard you have to get outplayed to die to this build? It’s not even a good offensive build, it’s just for mashing potatoes and will struggle against equally skilled opponents due to very, very low damage. This leads to either mashing potatoes or having long, drawn out fights that you struggle to finish against good players. It basically requires them to make a mistake or run out of resources

It’s a good setup for sure, but 3k spell damage and 40k magika is nothing to write home about on the damage front. It leans more to the tanky side of things which makes staying alive very easy while making securing kills more difficult. Remember that he’s got basically no stamina sustain so block casting BoL to survive when heavily pressured isn’t really an option on this build against good players who will use that to drain the stam pool rather quickly and if you apply a stam poison during a hard CC he’s in huge trouble without a potion ready

I wouldn't say it's only good for smashing potatoes though...

Swap pirate skelly with skoria (and maybe spell power cure for transmutation), swap eclipse with reverb and use soul assault as an ultimate and you got a crazy strong duel build.

Waffennacht

@Minno it does, best part is Jor only needs to be on one bar

Lexxypwns

Subversus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

You know how hard you have to get outplayed to die to this build? It’s not even a good offensive build, it’s just for mashing potatoes and will struggle against equally skilled opponents due to very, very low damage. This leads to either mashing potatoes or having long, drawn out fights that you struggle to finish against good players. It basically requires them to make a mistake or run out of resources

It’s a good setup for sure, but 3k spell damage and 40k magika is nothing to write home about on the damage front. It leans more to the tanky side of things which makes staying alive very easy while making securing kills more difficult. Remember that he’s got basically no stamina sustain so block casting BoL to survive when heavily pressured isn’t really an option on this build against good players who will use that to drain the stam pool rather quickly and if you apply a stam poison during a hard CC he’s in huge trouble without a potion ready

I wouldn't say it's only good for smashing potatoes though...

Swap pirate skelly with skoria (and maybe spell power cure for transmutation), swap eclipse with reverb and use soul assault as an ultimate and you got a crazy strong duel build.

You’re right, completely redo the build and it’ll be much stronger against competent players

Minno

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Minno it does, best part is Jor only needs to be on one bar

Would be annoying trying to upkeep buff timers while bar swapping though.

Kas wrote: »

i'd really love to see pirate skeleton fixed so that:
1) you get no weapon swap trouble in skel form and
2) you cannot use disguises to avoid transformation

--> counter play without tracking enemy positive buffs (which is insanely annoying otherwise).

But that's pvp; learning to count both your buffs and enemy's debuffs. At least pirate makes it easier; don't land your cc and burst if it's a skele.

Waffennacht

@Minno I really wanna use ironblood frankly, with jor I think you can actually manage it. If the snare is purgeable like pirate, then look out.

Then also frees up monster for an offensive set. And it's only 1 sec down time on major protection.

@Lexxypwns had the idea of pairing it with a gap closer when the set was in PTS, I think that's still a viable idea

Minno

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Minno I really wanna use ironblood frankly, with jor I think you can actually manage it. If the snare is purgeable like pirate, then look out.

Then also frees up monster for an offensive set. And it's only 1 sec down time on major protection.

@Lexxypwns had the idea of pairing it with a gap closer when the set was in PTS, I think that's still a viable idea

Hell no, im not setting foot in a PVE dungeon lol.

Though that defensive set looks good. I will need to test that snare for you.