ESO combat quality is FAR WORSE from its competitors?

Vanthras79 · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

There is always room for improvement.

lucky_Sage · January 2018

Other (leave your comment below, I'd love to read them)

combat system is good needs a few tweaks

but the issue is this games lag and balance is worst than most

DedEmbryonicCell19 · January 2018

It's fine as it is, but I'd love to see some improvement.

To be fair, Elder Scrolls game have never truly had good combat .. leaves a lot to be desired but for an MMO I have no problem with it ..

Being more action based wouldn't feel right, plus I don't like the action based combat in MMO's ..

MLGProPlayer · January 2018

Nope, not at all.

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It's way better than most of its competitiors.

WoW? Tab target
GW2? Tab Target
SWTOR? Tab target
FFXIV? Tab target

The only major MMOs to release in recent years with action combat are Tera and Black Desert. Both have better combat systems than ESO, but the games themselves are garbage.

Tab targeting or not, at least those game pace is smooth and work like intended. I don't know about you but I'm tired of watching my stamDK twitching like he has seizure or something.

Those games just have a global cooldown system to slow down combat. It doesn't really change the gameplay. Tab target MMOs are much less intuitive as you have to cycle through targets or release control of the camera to manually select. The combat in most of those games, aside from GW2, is quite passive (which is usually a side effect of tab targetting being too clunky for action-oriented combat)..

MLGProPlayer · January 2018

Nope, not at all.

tunepunk wrote: »

It's okay but the only thing I don't like is endgame rotations. But for PvE I wish boss combat had a lot more finesse than just trying to keep up an endless boring rotation for max DPS. For this reason I never do trials any more, as I find this to be extremely boring gameplay.

I don't know what the solution would be though. But I wish that skills were more situational than just trying to stack as many damaging effects and debuffs as possible. If you get adds. Maybe skills cost way more resources, but also make them stronger, so that you would use them when appropriate and not in a mindless rotation. Or maybe boss mechanics should be harder focus more on disrupting rotations.

End game Boss fights at the moment are just DPS races which i find very boring. Maybe more boss mechanics with insta kills, or possibility to steal aggro from tank if you generate too much DPS aggro. Less predictable and more random boss mechanics?

I'm not sure what the solution would be, but at the current state of end game I'm not really enjoying it. Hence I mostly solo or normal and vet group dungeons, as questing and exploring is a pushover and trials are boring.

Vet DLC dungeons have a ton of mechanics.

Trials and non-DLC dungeons tend to be "stack and burn" but DLC dungeons force everyone in the party to be active.

Inarre · January 2018

Nope, not at all.

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

tunepunk wrote: »

It's okay but the only thing I don't like is endgame rotations. But for PvE I wish boss combat had a lot more finesse than just trying to keep up an endless boring rotation for max DPS. For this reason I never do trials any more, as I find this to be extremely boring gameplay.

I don't know what the solution would be though. But I wish that skills were more situational than just trying to stack as many damaging effects and debuffs as possible. If you get adds. Maybe skills cost way more resources, but also make them stronger, so that you would use them when appropriate and not in a mindless rotation. Or maybe boss mechanics should be harder focus more on disrupting rotations.

End game Boss fights at the moment are just DPS races which i find very boring. Maybe more boss mechanics with insta kills, or possibility to steal aggro from tank if you generate too much DPS aggro. Less predictable and more random boss mechanics?

I'm not sure what the solution would be, but at the current state of end game I'm not really enjoying it. Hence I mostly solo or normal and vet group dungeons, as questing and exploring is a pushover and trials are boring.

the combat lends it self well to a hack n slash its not a great implementation for a indepth MMO experience.

Not to pick on you in particular, just that I've seen this brought up a few times in this thread and I have to ask. What is the definition of a good, in-depth MMO experience?

mmorpg
abbreviation for
(Computer Science) massive(ly) multiplayer online role-playing game: an internet-based computer game set in a virtual world, which can be played by many people at the same time, each of whom can interact with the others

I feel that the combat does accomplish the MMO experience in that it allows me to interact and compete with many other players in a virtual world, sometimes all at the same time.

Necrelios · January 2018

Totally.

As someone who prefers a lot of variety in games I've seen much better games out there compared to how combat feels in ESO, but that ship has sailed long ago. The clunkiness with staff heavy attacks has always felt weird and the other weapons doing damage without even making contact is very deceptive and not intuitive at all.

Smithernest54 · January 2018

It's fine as it is, but I'd love to see some improvement.

I like to see block casting go or Magicka Regen while blocking halted. That is my only problem currently it just doesn’t seem right.

Sneaky-Snurr · January 2018

It's fine as it is, but I'd love to see some improvement.

Something needs to be done to Animation Cancelling.
I use it but it's just not fluid looking and with inconsistent ping due to ZoS's 'amazing' servers, AC can be pretty troublesome.

idk · January 2018

Nope, not at all.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It's way better than most of its competitiors.

WoW? Tab target
GW2? Tab Target
SWTOR? Tab target
FFXIV? Tab target

The only major MMOs to release in recent years with action combat are Tera and Black Desert. Both have better combat systems than ESO, but the games themselves are garbage.

Tab targeting or not, at least those game pace is smooth and work like intended. I don't know about you but I'm tired of watching my stamDK twitching like he has seizure or something.

Those games just have a global cooldown system to slow down combat. It doesn't really change the gameplay. Tab target MMOs are much less intuitive as you have to cycle through targets or release control of the camera to manually select. The combat in most of those games, aside from GW2, is quite passive (which is usually a side effect of tab targetting being too clunky for action-oriented combat)..

Besides wondering why this thread is still alive since so few agree with the OP, I do have to agree with MMOPro here.

Besides again, OP's idea of a better combat system is a game he seems to not be playing. I will take ESO over his BDO any day.

f047ys3v3n · January 2018

Totally.

ESO started out with the great strength of having only 2 bars of 5 skills each. I think this was a very good idea and is a major advantage.

They have somehow managed to get to clunky, slow, and unbalance combat, with extremely tricky timings, crazy important group buffs, and cheat engine use that is exceptionally common both high end PVP and PVE groups from this. Bottom line, Wrobel is inept and the combat is bad. The game exists and continues to function because of how great the questing development group is in spite of how bad the combat group continues to be.

Abysswarrior45 · January 2018

Other (leave your comment below, I'd love to read them)

Fix the game 1st before aesthetics please. I'm referring to balance and performance along with the progression system. The cp being raised is a huge reason combat sucks outside of the mediocre "feel" to it.

deathcoyrwb17_ESO · January 2018

Totally.

Combat in ESO seem fun but underneath it it, theres tons of issues. Combat is like a mixed between traditional tab targetting and action oriented so it gets the best of both worlds but also the negatives of both. Its even made worse with the unintentional animation cancelling mechanic which has now become a mandatory part of the game. Coupled with the fact that skills land on key press rather than on hit, it causes even more problems, especially when it comes to balancing. ESO was developed by people who don't know wtf an mmorpg is, just look at launch, the poor balancing, the infinite stacking of buffs, the uselessness of stam etc etc. They tried to fix it with one tamriel and morrowind but unfortunately the foundation of the game was flawed from the beginning. Only option is an overhaul which is unlikely to happen. Dont get me wrong, the developers are good at their job but they're more specialized towards rpg, not mmorpg.

Tasear · January 2018

Other (leave your comment below, I'd love to read them)

I would love to see a new animation for Frost staff that doesn't feel same as inferno.

InstantNoise · January 2018

It's fine as it is, but I'd love to see some improvement.

Just remove animation canceling.

Zinaroth · January 2018

Nope, not at all.

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

idk wrote: »

As is clear from the poll results, few agree. While I am sure there is something everyone would like to see different, just as with everything else, combat is significantly better than any MMORPG I have played before.

Edit: comparing ESO to BDO is a poor comparison. BDO hardly has anything in it. If that is the type of game you prefer I suggest playing it though most that tried it got bored and returned to ESO.

39% disagree, and 55% agree so far, what are talking about?
To be clear, do I hate ESO? No, not in a million year. Do you like BDO? Hell no, it's a grinding hell, and I'm so done with grinding 24/7. I'm simply compare 1 aspect of the games, but it's a big aspect, a very big one. Since most of the thing you do in ESO is combat, I think we all want the best combat experience. And so far, 65% of people agree that's something need to be changed.

Agreeing that some things need to change is not the same as agreeing that it's far worse than other MMORPGs - which is the question you stated.

You're reading your own data wrong.

So far 19 % think it's worse (doesn't matter if they think it's worse to a bigger or lesser extent), 36 % think it's fine but could use some improvements, 38 % disagree with you and think it's just fine straight out and 5 % are special snowflakes who cannot be used in the statistic.

You cannot couple the 36 % who think it's fine but could use some improvements together with the 19 % who think it's wors and the 5 % who provided qualitative responses instead of quantitative, and just bunch them all together and say they all agree that it's worse.

This is you collecting data, finding out that the data does not tell you what you wanted, and then misinterpretating and presenting this data to support your own view/claim.

The only conclusions we can make from this poll (if we actually see it as indicative of the entire ESO community as a whole including the people who do not frequent forums or those who do but did not participate) is:

About a fifth of the player base think it has worse combat than other MMORPGs on the market.
About a third of the player base think it's doing fine but would like to see some changes.
About a third of the player base think it's doing great and see no issues (my choise of words).

Is it problematic that a fifth of the player base think the combat is so bad?
- It could potentially be, yes.

But saying that it's actually over half is just a blatant lie and an attempt to make a false spin on your own data.

Fermian · January 2018

Nope, not at all.

This looks like a request for more action based combat. But for me the good thing about eso is that they changed the targetting system while keeping focus on traditional rpg elements. Like resource management and impact of different abilities.
Also keep in mind, a lot of rpg players prefer a turn based game above an action based game.

Llaren_Uvayn · January 2018

For me, combat in this game is a lot more enjoyable than in any other MMO I've come across. WoW, for example, is far too convoluted with at least ten million skills on all of your skill bars. You can macro them, but mouseclicking skills feels clunky, whereas ESO allows for more fast paced combat. Especially healing in this game is a lot less tedious than it usually is in MMOs.

fred.thomsonb16_ESO · January 2018

Totally.

Game needs softcaps and diminishing returns on CC to address the power creep and gear disparity, animation are slowly being fixed but were in the best state pre-thieves, if we could roll back to then, keeping the templar nerfs, the game would be solid. That's all I'll say after writing out and deleting about 15 salty paragraphs. Also cost poisons.......

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

Dredlord wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

andreasv wrote: »

If I compare to BDO it is worse. It doesn't feel as powerful. I don't get the impression that attacks connect with my target. But the best thing about BDO combat is how skills are constructed. It's not just a simple number press (although you can set it up for some skills), but it's key combinations. And building up some combos is not just LMB, 1,2, LMB, 3,4,5 but rather:

[SHIFT]+[SPACEBAR] followed by
[F] then
[SHIFT] + [F] followed by
[SHIFT] + (S) followed by
(S)+[F] followed by
[RMB] then
(S)+[E] and
[SHIFT]+[LPM+PPM] finishing with
[LMB].

But I guess BDO has been designed with grinding XP via combat in mind, whereas ESO is more about Story and lore.

Why dont you rebind your keys so you can make whatever combo you want...

ESO currently has the best action combat gameplay in an MMO and I have played almost every pvp mmo since UO.

I dont macro and i have found the animations better since that update, macroers have had a harder time with it.

Its funny most of those saying it sucks offer nothing they think is better and they are still playing eso.

Some mentioned BDO and gw2, give your head a shake...

I think you misunderstand the good people here. The people who agree to my OP do not hate ESO, but opposite, we all love ESO, we all have great passion in ESO. But "love" does not mean we have to accept and agree everything ZOS has to say.
I might be viewed as a negative, whining person, but that's the cost of being different, being honest. Do I gain anything from this? No, not at all. But can this thread help the future of ESO? Maybe, there's a small percentage that someone at ZOS might look at this poll, and say "wow, we need to improve our combat". If so, then it will be a win win situation for all of us. And if I have to play the "bad guy" role to get that tiny percentage, so be it

If thats your intention then you have gone about it in the wrong way, your title and vote options are incredibly biased sounding. I doubt any dev would read past your title.

It's called "pure clickbait"

How do you think i've got this much attention

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It's way better than most of its competitiors.

WoW? Tab target
GW2? Tab Target
SWTOR? Tab target
FFXIV? Tab target

The only major MMOs to release in recent years with action combat are Tera and Black Desert. Both have better combat systems than ESO, but the games themselves are garbage.

Tab targeting or not, at least those game pace is smooth and work like intended. I don't know about you but I'm tired of watching my stamDK twitching like he has seizure or something.

Those games just have a global cooldown system to slow down combat. It doesn't really change the gameplay. Tab target MMOs are much less intuitive as you have to cycle through targets or release control of the camera to manually select. The combat in most of those games, aside from GW2, is quite passive (which is usually a side effect of tab targetting being too clunky for action-oriented combat)..

So, ESO has no global cooldown?

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

Necrelios wrote: »

As someone who prefers a lot of variety in games I've seen much better games out there compared to how combat feels in ESO, but that ship has sailed long ago. The clunkiness with staff heavy attacks has always felt weird and the other weapons doing damage without even making contact is very deceptive and not intuitive at all.

I know that it's been only 4 years, but damn it really feels like forever.

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

Zinaroth wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

idk wrote: »

As is clear from the poll results, few agree. While I am sure there is something everyone would like to see different, just as with everything else, combat is significantly better than any MMORPG I have played before.

Edit: comparing ESO to BDO is a poor comparison. BDO hardly has anything in it. If that is the type of game you prefer I suggest playing it though most that tried it got bored and returned to ESO.

39% disagree, and 55% agree so far, what are talking about?
To be clear, do I hate ESO? No, not in a million year. Do you like BDO? Hell no, it's a grinding hell, and I'm so done with grinding 24/7. I'm simply compare 1 aspect of the games, but it's a big aspect, a very big one. Since most of the thing you do in ESO is combat, I think we all want the best combat experience. And so far, 65% of people agree that's something need to be changed.

Agreeing that some things need to change is not the same as agreeing that it's far worse than other MMORPGs - which is the question you stated.

You're reading your own data wrong.

So far 19 % think it's worse (doesn't matter if they think it's worse to a bigger or lesser extent), 36 % think it's fine but could use some improvements, 38 % disagree with you and think it's just fine straight out and 5 % are special snowflakes who cannot be used in the statistic.

You cannot couple the 36 % who think it's fine but could use some improvements together with the 19 % who think it's wors and the 5 % who provided qualitative responses instead of quantitative, and just bunch them all together and say they all agree that it's worse.

This is you collecting data, finding out that the data does not tell you what you wanted, and then misinterpretating and presenting this data to support your own view/claim.

The only conclusions we can make from this poll (if we actually see it as indicative of the entire ESO community as a whole including the people who do not frequent forums or those who do but did not participate) is:

About a fifth of the player base think it has worse combat than other MMORPGs on the market.
About a third of the player base think it's doing fine but would like to see some changes.
About a third of the player base think it's doing great and see no issues (my choise of words).

Is it problematic that a fifth of the player base think the combat is so bad?
- It could potentially be, yes.

But saying that it's actually over half is just a blatant lie and an attempt to make a false spin on your own data.

my friend, my question can be translated to "pure clickbait". I mean, I didn't vote to 100% agree to that question (see above, I voted the 2nd one). Sure, saying ESO is "far worse" is quite overreacting, but man it can become much much more. If the combat is in the death-end of improvement, then there's nothing more to say, but the potential for greatness is right there, ZOS has been simply ignoring and wasting it for years now. And these are not major problem like how laggy the server is, it's something they've proved to everyone that they can do it, but then somehow they managed to do the opposite! It's madness.
And if you still have problem with my title, then I'm sorry, I truly am, but making a clickbait title has proved to be the only way to gain this much attention

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

Fermian wrote: »

This looks like a request for more action based combat. But for me the good thing about eso is that they changed the targetting system while keeping focus on traditional rpg elements. Like resource management and impact of different abilities.
Also keep in mind, a lot of rpg players prefer a turn based game above an action based game.

I know that a lot of RPG players love turn based game. I myself love Pokemon and Divinity original sin, and I totally have no problem with that. Heck, I even love WOW and FF14 for their tab targeting system. But ESO is no where near to be a turn based game. It was even marketed as a "dynamic combat system".

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

Llaren_Uvayn wrote: »

For me, combat in this game is a lot more enjoyable than in any other MMO I've come across. WoW, for example, is far too convoluted with at least ten million skills on all of your skill bars. You can macro them, but mouseclicking skills feels clunky, whereas ESO allows for more fast paced combat. Especially healing in this game is a lot less tedious than it usually is in MMOs.

yeah I can totally agree about the healing part and the "holy *** I way too many skills, half of which I'll never use" part.

Vosital · January 2018

Nope, not at all.

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

I'd rather do combat in ESO then in WoW for example.

Quick breakdown: I played 10 years of WoW, trying to manage over a dozen skills at 4x12 slot bars, often mistaken in rotation, possibility's etc. with a gc on nearly everything, and on top of that cooldowns that add up to sometimes 30 minutes on a ability, so you have to save it up and cant use it on the go.

ESO on the other hand had me hooked with the combatsystem since I entered the beta: no more auto-attack, no more hoarding ability's on your bar, but simplified and more realistic fighting, and most of all: no more autoblock! Forces you to think before you act.

My friend, you're comparing ESO to a 14 years old game. It's like comparing Dark Souls combat to Divinity 2 combat, those 2 games may fall into the same RPG genre, but the different miles apart, same case for ESO and WOW. If you want to compare ESO, I think compare it to BDO, which came out the same year 2014, or Blade and Soul would be more ideal. By that, you can clearly see that ESO is falling behind those game by a large margin.

How else would you compare them? They are the two best MMO's with nothing else even coming close really. If a player wants to begin playing an MMO today, then they pretty much have to choose ESO or WoW.

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

Vosital wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

I'd rather do combat in ESO then in WoW for example.

Quick breakdown: I played 10 years of WoW, trying to manage over a dozen skills at 4x12 slot bars, often mistaken in rotation, possibility's etc. with a gc on nearly everything, and on top of that cooldowns that add up to sometimes 30 minutes on a ability, so you have to save it up and cant use it on the go.

ESO on the other hand had me hooked with the combatsystem since I entered the beta: no more auto-attack, no more hoarding ability's on your bar, but simplified and more realistic fighting, and most of all: no more autoblock! Forces you to think before you act.

My friend, you're comparing ESO to a 14 years old game. It's like comparing Dark Souls combat to Divinity 2 combat, those 2 games may fall into the same RPG genre, but the different miles apart, same case for ESO and WOW. If you want to compare ESO, I think compare it to BDO, which came out the same year 2014, or Blade and Soul would be more ideal. By that, you can clearly see that ESO is falling behind those game by a large margin.

How else would you compare them? They are the two best MMO's with nothing else even coming close really. If a player wants to begin playing an MMO today, then they pretty much have to choose ESO or WoW.

How about we compare "action combat mmorpg"? And not "mmorpg as a whole"? It's like separating turn based RPG with action RPG. Have you ever seen people compare "Persona combat" with 'Dark Souls combat"? Then why do you compare a "I'll stand still and wait 5 secs just to cast a spell, then repeat 100 times with my other 200 spells" MMORPG, with a "dynamic combat system" MMORPG (yes, that's how ESO was marketed back in the day)?

Inarre · January 2018

Nope, not at all.

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It's way better than most of its competitiors.

WoW? Tab target
GW2? Tab Target
SWTOR? Tab target
FFXIV? Tab target

The only major MMOs to release in recent years with action combat are Tera and Black Desert. Both have better combat systems than ESO, but the games themselves are garbage.

Tab targeting or not, at least those game pace is smooth and work like intended. I don't know about you but I'm tired of watching my stamDK twitching like he has seizure or something.

Those games just have a global cooldown system to slow down combat. It doesn't really change the gameplay. Tab target MMOs are much less intuitive as you have to cycle through targets or release control of the camera to manually select. The combat in most of those games, aside from GW2, is quite passive (which is usually a side effect of tab targetting being too clunky for action-oriented combat)..

So, ESO has no global cooldown?

Is this question rhetorical? Because if it is I think we are splitting hairs X)

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

Inarre wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It's way better than most of its competitiors.

WoW? Tab target
GW2? Tab Target
SWTOR? Tab target
FFXIV? Tab target

The only major MMOs to release in recent years with action combat are Tera and Black Desert. Both have better combat systems than ESO, but the games themselves are garbage.

Tab targeting or not, at least those game pace is smooth and work like intended. I don't know about you but I'm tired of watching my stamDK twitching like he has seizure or something.

Those games just have a global cooldown system to slow down combat. It doesn't really change the gameplay. Tab target MMOs are much less intuitive as you have to cycle through targets or release control of the camera to manually select. The combat in most of those games, aside from GW2, is quite passive (which is usually a side effect of tab targetting being too clunky for action-oriented combat)..

So, ESO has no global cooldown?

Is this question rhetorical? Because if it is I think we are splitting hairs X)

I'm not really sure what you mean by "rhetorical", but I just want to make sure that person know what he/she is talking about.

klowdy1 · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

I like the combat, but I could do without the animation cancelling. I'm tired of games with this problem that just act like it's part of the combat system. This is never intended in any game, but people have adapted, and devs don't want the work.

Rolling to cancel some actions seems passable, but what we have in this game is not easy for new players to grasp, making random groups, such as cyrodil, worse for everyone. With our current system, there is a chance you will jump into a group with no concept or idea of animation cancelling, while the enemy has premade groups of people very skilled with it.

Some will say its part of the learning curve, but it was never intended. For reference, I am fairly good with animation cancelling. Not the best, but my dps is better than average, I would say.