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[PvP] mDK changes
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Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭How about we remove power lash and give them a stone fist damage buff.
It worked when sorcs lost their identity I don’t see why it couldn’t apply here as well.
Dk is a lot of fun in duels and small fights but I get roughed up hard when trying to 1vx.
Granted I was light and not utilizing block.
I do notice that dk needs a way to consistently have a heal that doesn’t get butchered by defile. Because they hurt the most by this defile meta.
Maybe an indirect buff being befoul removal. I do think adding minor protection to cinder storm and expanding its radius could be another way to say dk’s Holding their ground is feasible.
Also while we are at it can we revert surge to its old heal so I can run a 2h for forward momentum on mag sorc.
K thanks
Removing Power Lash would further gut the class of its identity.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT1 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭this would be a issue if power lash hit like dizzying swing or surprise attack or frag or even birds most power lashes are in 3k range crits are only high on low cp targets or sorcs who don't run inpen most crits are close to 5k at most on avg sometimes you get 6k or ive seen a 9k ounce or so but that was a guy wearing zero inpen when people can run inpen full heavy and surprise attacks hits for 6k avg
id be fine with power lash hit 3k+ on avg if dots worked in pvp and they could actually out sustain classes with burst and executesEdited by lucky_Sage on January 12, 2018 6:01PMDC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc0 -
Quantum_VClass RepresentativeHow about we remove power lash and give them a stone fist damage buff.
It worked when sorcs lost their identity I don’t see why it couldn’t apply here as well.
Dk is a lot of fun in duels and small fights but I get roughed up hard when trying to 1vx.
Granted I was light and not utilizing block.
I do notice that dk needs a way to consistently have a heal that doesn’t get butchered by defile. Because they hurt the most by this defile meta.
Maybe an indirect buff being befoul removal. I do think adding minor protection to cinder storm and expanding its radius could be another way to say dk’s Holding their ground is feasible.
Also while we are at it can we revert surge to its old heal so I can run a 2h for forward momentum on mag sorc.
K thanks
Thanks for participating Irilia!
Well, I think powerlash should be maintained as it's a core pillar skill to mDKs' playstyle. When people are rooted their instinctive reaction is to rolldodge but at that point powerlash has procced and it's undodgeable. So that little mechanic right there is fundamental to the mDKs heals and damage output and does have counterplay (just block the powerlash once you're rooted and then rolldodge).
I agree 100% on your second point, coag blood is destroyed by defile. I think defile might be too accessible overall.
And minor protection or someother sort of defensive buff to cinder storm is great, granted it's a 5k magicka costing skill that has little use in PvP currently.
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beetleklee✭✭✭✭Having thought about the "make powerlash procc on burning" a bit by now:
No i´m pretty convinced people don´t want that. Enchanting fire resist or being darkelf would create situations where you can´t use powerlash against these targets at all as having a specific resistance makes you immune to the corresponding elemental effect.
Haven't thought about that, good point.PC NA
CP 690
EP Dunmer MagDK Level 50, Stormproof
EP Dunmer MagSorc Level 50, Stormproof
EP Argonian DK Tank Level 50, Boethiah's Scythe
EP Breton Templar Healer Level 50
EP Khajiit StamDK Level 50, Stormproof
EP Dunmer Magblade Level 50, Assistant Alienist
EP Argonian Stamden Level 50, Lady of Misrule (pvp)
EP Dunmer Stamblade Level 50
DC Redguard Stamplar
AD Altmer Magwarden Healer
vMA, vDSA, vSO HM, vHRC HM, vAA, vAS+1, vMoL0 -
Adenoma✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't know that I want minor protection on cinderstorm. There are definitely diminishing returns to that 8%, especially in CP. I would rather tie something like minor vitality - you should be able to heal when you're literally camping in your own fire. I'm vehemently opposed to the idea of major evasion being attached to that again.
Personally, I would really like to see cinderstorm buffed to where it increased ult gain while you are inside. This gives offensive and defensive resilience to the DK and has the plus of additional sustain.Adenoma-Badenoma-Sadenoma0 -
Quantum_VClass RepresentativeI don't know that I want minor protection on cinderstorm. There are definitely diminishing returns to that 8%, especially in CP. I would rather tie something like minor vitality - you should be able to heal when you're literally camping in your own fire. I'm vehemently opposed to the idea of major evasion being attached to that again.
Personally, I would really like to see cinderstorm buffed to where it increased ult gain while you are inside. This gives offensive and defensive resilience to the DK and has the plus of additional sustain.
minor/major heroism while inside cinderstorm (for a couple of seconds only, maybe?)3 -
Adenoma✭✭✭✭✭
✭That would be huge. IMO, we need to change so many of the dead skills with magDK. Either do that actively or via passives - personally, I prefer that being done via active skills.
Really, the two buffs I want to see is something like major heroism attached to cinderstorm or minor vitality plus minor heroism. It seems wrong to me that a class like stamwarden outgains ultimate when compared to a class that is intended to sustain off its ults. Turn cinderstorm into the Templar house like rune focus + purify morphs do.
Realistically the only changes I want to magDK are @DKsUnite proposed lash changes, cinderstorm being my fiery home, and letting wings give some snare immunity so I don't have to crutch on mistform. Losing mistform frees up a slot for cinderstorm and look at that - magDK has a home again!Adenoma-Badenoma-Sadenoma4 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭lucky_Sage wrote: »this would be a issue if power lash hit like dizzying swing or surprise attack or frag or even birds most power lashes are in 3k range crits are only high on low cp targets or sorcs who don't run inpen most crits are close to 5k at most on avg sometimes you get 6k or ive seen a 9k ounce or so but that was a guy wearing zero inpen when people can run inpen full heavy and surprise attacks hits for 6k avg
id be fine with power lash hit 3k+ on avg if dots worked in pvp and they could actually out sustain classes with burst and executes
My mag dk does way more than 3k average with powerlash. But, powerlash is about more than just damage. Its undodgable, heals, AND IS FREE! 5 to 6k crits are balanced around their whole class toolkit, and they did a great job imo.
Powerlash as a spammable is an awful change for balance.1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭lucky_Sage wrote: »this would be a issue if power lash hit like dizzying swing or surprise attack or frag or even birds most power lashes are in 3k range crits are only high on low cp targets or sorcs who don't run inpen most crits are close to 5k at most on avg sometimes you get 6k or ive seen a 9k ounce or so but that was a guy wearing zero inpen when people can run inpen full heavy and surprise attacks hits for 6k avg
id be fine with power lash hit 3k+ on avg if dots worked in pvp and they could actually out sustain classes with burst and executes
IF your power lash is hitting people for 3k, and you're getting hit 6k from suprise attacks, something is wrong with your build.3 -
Calboy✭✭✭✭✭Man some people are exaggerating the lack of whip damage. Mines hits for a lot more than what people in here are saying and that's with a defensive set equipped.0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭mDK needs a buff to abilities that will free its reliance on sword and board.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT3 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm guessing irillia is joking. Kiss to sorcs for the trade, they got better unblockable CC, we got CC on our key ability.ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »Being able to hit a person with multiple Power Lashes in a row is not a problem at all. mDKs have no mobility, their one defensive option just got nerfed into the ground, and they have no real burst to speak of. Quite frankly if you're dying to Flame Flash spamming mDK its because you're bad and you deserve to die.
In openworld, not really a problem. Since if a DK is sitting on a single target spamming, then they are going to die. In duels its overpowered by quite a bit. High damage and spam heals, have little counter if its just you.
I vote that we don't balance the game based on dueling builds and duels. It is just a small side piece of the game.
Everything you do in this game is a small piece of it. Not all classes can be proficient at everything. Hearing a mdk talk about his class is hilarious.. these guys want everything.
"Hi I'm a MDK and I have access to more dots and cc's then everybody but Id also like to have the mobility of nightblades and burst like stamdens. Thank you."
Hi, I'm a MagDK, I have access to the same amount of dots as a templar, am out dotted by stamina builds because bleed dots>normal, and I have less CCs than a magsorc.
Bugged af, (fossilize, power lash, wings, leap, and chains all can fail for little logical reason, chains and lash having height issues, wings not refreshing, leap being leap.) no execute, (why tho) Worst mobility (OK, fine, slow class, but should at least be slow+steady, not slow+snared constantly) worst sustain (Hell knows why) and no other defense than blocking. (Wings is beyond *** outside 1v1 magNB)
The only place I am good is either as a rootspammer for a small group, until it gets too big and am phased out, or size limited 1v1, where the bad sustain/mobility and reliance on dots isn't as negative.
No one wants a damage increase, DK damage overall is good, though lots of sacrifices for block, or even mobility (snare removal is wanted though) they just want wings as a viable non block defense and sustain. You know, since DK was the slow burning lock down class. (Lock down is ok again, since we were compensated from the foss nerf.)Edited by ak_pvp on January 12, 2018 9:02PMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.2 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Why does anyone think mDK needs a buff or not a nerf?
Because worst openworld class? It took a LOT of nerfs to block, sustain, lockdown, damage etc as is. And is only good in duels or as a rootbitch.Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Are you missing the nerfs that have happened? Block sustain is awful, even a stamDK with better stam sustain can hardly manage it. Heavy as mag is phasing out too, since lower constitution and wraths removal means light is just better, sustain and damage. More are drifting to the DDuke style play.Edited by ak_pvp on January 12, 2018 9:07PMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Are you just here to ask for DK nerfs? Doesn't seem very constructive.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Are you just here to ask for DK nerfs? Doesn't seem very constructive.
I'm here to tell the truth.
Magicka Dk is not the ''oh so weak'' class that it was before morrowind.
It absolutely does not need buffs in its current state. bug fixes and QoL changes are all it needs.2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Why does anyone think mDK needs a buff or not a nerf?
Because worst openworld class? It took a LOT of nerfs to block, sustain, lockdown, damage etc as is. And is only good in duels or as a rootbitch.Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Are you missing the nerfs that have happened? Block sustain is awful, even a stamDK with better stam sustain can hardly manage it. Heavy as mag is phasing out too, since lower constitution and wraths removal means light is just better, sustain and damage. More are drifting to the DDuke style play.
At least it's the best at something, and pyromancer is fine open world.
Unless you're the worst class, no buffs1 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Why does anyone think mDK needs a buff or not a nerf?
Because worst openworld class? It took a LOT of nerfs to block, sustain, lockdown, damage etc as is. And is only good in duels or as a rootbitch.Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Are you missing the nerfs that have happened? Block sustain is awful, even a stamDK with better stam sustain can hardly manage it. Heavy as mag is phasing out too, since lower constitution and wraths removal means light is just better, sustain and damage. More are drifting to the DDuke style play.
At least it's the best at something, and pyromancer is fine open world.
Unless you're the worst class, no buffs
... That may be the silliest approach to balance I have seen. Especially since everything is balanced together, Look at that magplar, they can heal well in a group but have little in terms of openworld skill, so *** em?
There are no classes worst at everything, though. Everything can do SOMETHING. The overall worst is probably stamDK, because it sucks for duels, BGs, openworld grouped etc. But remains OK for OW solo and great for PvE.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Quantum_VClass RepresentativeFrom the information i've gathered in this thread, some people are simply justifying their opinions on 1v1ing mDKs. mDK is one of the best dueling classes in this game, full stop.
YET
Play mDK solo openworld and you'll most likely change your opinions on this class pretty quickly.
Most of us are not asking for buffs, we're asking for updates. We're asking for our class to fit in the current game, as this class was thought through mechanically for back when ulti regen was a thing, defile wasn't the easiest debuff to get and when S&B was a little bit more viable.
4 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭From the information i've gathered in this thread, some people are simply justifying their opinions on 1v1ing mDKs. mDK is one of the best dueling classes in this game, full stop.
YET
Play mDK solo openworld and you'll most likely change your opinions on this class pretty quickly.
Most of us are not asking for buffs, we're asking for updates. We're asking for our class to fit in the current game, as this class was thought through mechanically for back when ulti regen was a thing, defile wasn't the easiest debuff to get and when S&B was a little bit more viable.
What about sorc? Only nerfs except a slight addition to pets1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Are you just here to ask for DK nerfs? Doesn't seem very constructive.
I'm here to tell the truth.
Magicka Dk is not the ''oh so weak'' class that it was before morrowind.
It absolutely does not need buffs in its current state. bug fixes and QoL changes are all it needs.
mDK is one of the hardest specs to play open world. sDK is in a better spot than mDK for solo open world.
Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT2 -
kyle.wilson✭✭✭✭✭
✭Someone suggested in another thread that Lash should proc on Burning instead of Off-Balance. Whether that status effect or another, it could be worth decoupling Lash from an effect that's so central to PVE balance. It would certainly make it easier to balance mDKs.
Introducing a cooldown specific to Lash is probably the easiest solution, but I think many past nerfs have taught us that easiest != best.
Anything harder than easiest is too hard for ZOS. They seem to totally screw up any complicated fixes.
I.E. the Xbox fix, that totally broke the system.
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Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »From the information i've gathered in this thread, some people are simply justifying their opinions on 1v1ing mDKs. mDK is one of the best dueling classes in this game, full stop.
YET
Play mDK solo openworld and you'll most likely change your opinions on this class pretty quickly.
Most of us are not asking for buffs, we're asking for updates. We're asking for our class to fit in the current game, as this class was thought through mechanically for back when ulti regen was a thing, defile wasn't the easiest debuff to get and when S&B was a little bit more viable.
What about sorc? Only nerfs except a slight addition to pets
What about sorc? Is this a sorc thread?Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT3 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »From the information i've gathered in this thread, some people are simply justifying their opinions on 1v1ing mDKs. mDK is one of the best dueling classes in this game, full stop.
YET
Play mDK solo openworld and you'll most likely change your opinions on this class pretty quickly.
Most of us are not asking for buffs, we're asking for updates. We're asking for our class to fit in the current game, as this class was thought through mechanically for back when ulti regen was a thing, defile wasn't the easiest debuff to get and when S&B was a little bit more viable.
What about sorc? Only nerfs except a slight addition to pets
What about sorc? Is this a sorc thread?
Yes, because it's stupid to create an even further balancing issue when you buff a class that doesn't need it and ignore a class that's practically never received a buffEdited by Waffennacht on January 12, 2018 10:20PM1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »From the information i've gathered in this thread, some people are simply justifying their opinions on 1v1ing mDKs. mDK is one of the best dueling classes in this game, full stop.
YET
Play mDK solo openworld and you'll most likely change your opinions on this class pretty quickly.
Most of us are not asking for buffs, we're asking for updates. We're asking for our class to fit in the current game, as this class was thought through mechanically for back when ulti regen was a thing, defile wasn't the easiest debuff to get and when S&B was a little bit more viable.
What about sorc? Only nerfs except a slight addition to pets
What about sorc? Is this a sorc thread?
Yes, because it's stupid to create an even further balancing issues when you buff a class that doesn't need it and ignore a class that's practically never received a buff
lol, we must be playing a different game, just lolInvictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT3 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »From the information i've gathered in this thread, some people are simply justifying their opinions on 1v1ing mDKs. mDK is one of the best dueling classes in this game, full stop.
YET
Play mDK solo openworld and you'll most likely change your opinions on this class pretty quickly.
Most of us are not asking for buffs, we're asking for updates. We're asking for our class to fit in the current game, as this class was thought through mechanically for back when ulti regen was a thing, defile wasn't the easiest debuff to get and when S&B was a little bit more viable.
What about sorc? Only nerfs except a slight addition to pets
What about sorc? Is this a sorc thread?
Yes, because it's stupid to create an even further balancing issues when you buff a class that doesn't need it and ignore a class that's practically never received a buff
lol, we must be playing a different game, just lol
We must be, 9k whips against 4k impen doesn't need a buff - especially the likes of free x5 in a row2 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »From the information i've gathered in this thread, some people are simply justifying their opinions on 1v1ing mDKs. mDK is one of the best dueling classes in this game, full stop.
YET
Play mDK solo openworld and you'll most likely change your opinions on this class pretty quickly.
Most of us are not asking for buffs, we're asking for updates. We're asking for our class to fit in the current game, as this class was thought through mechanically for back when ulti regen was a thing, defile wasn't the easiest debuff to get and when S&B was a little bit more viable.
What about sorc? Only nerfs except a slight addition to pets
What about sorc? Is this a sorc thread?
Yes, because it's stupid to create an even further balancing issues when you buff a class that doesn't need it and ignore a class that's practically never received a buff
lol, we must be playing a different game, just lol
We must be, 9k whips against 4k impen doesn't need a buff - especially the likes of free x5 in a row
Ah yes, those mythical 9k whips against 4k impen. If only Sorcs had access to hard hitting abilities, mobility, sustain. Such a shame.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT4 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »From the information i've gathered in this thread, some people are simply justifying their opinions on 1v1ing mDKs. mDK is one of the best dueling classes in this game, full stop.
YET
Play mDK solo openworld and you'll most likely change your opinions on this class pretty quickly.
Most of us are not asking for buffs, we're asking for updates. We're asking for our class to fit in the current game, as this class was thought through mechanically for back when ulti regen was a thing, defile wasn't the easiest debuff to get and when S&B was a little bit more viable.
What about sorc? Only nerfs except a slight addition to pets
What about sorc? Is this a sorc thread?
Yes, because it's stupid to create an even further balancing issues when you buff a class that doesn't need it and ignore a class that's practically never received a buff
lol, we must be playing a different game, just lol
We must be, 9k whips against 4k impen doesn't need a buff - especially the likes of free x5 in a row
Ah yes, those mythical 9k whips against 4k impen. If only Sorcs had access to hard hitting abilities, mobility, sustain. Such a shame.
Right? They have unblockable - put purage able ability that can be cast every 3.5 secs, that's so much like an instant free spammable that deals more damage.
Tell @DDuke that mDK has no mobility.
You obviously only play AvAEdited by Waffennacht on January 12, 2018 10:27PM1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »From the information i've gathered in this thread, some people are simply justifying their opinions on 1v1ing mDKs. mDK is one of the best dueling classes in this game, full stop.
YET
Play mDK solo openworld and you'll most likely change your opinions on this class pretty quickly.
Most of us are not asking for buffs, we're asking for updates. We're asking for our class to fit in the current game, as this class was thought through mechanically for back when ulti regen was a thing, defile wasn't the easiest debuff to get and when S&B was a little bit more viable.
What about sorc? Only nerfs except a slight addition to pets
What about sorc? Is this a sorc thread?
Yes, because it's stupid to create an even further balancing issues when you buff a class that doesn't need it and ignore a class that's practically never received a buff
lol, we must be playing a different game, just lol
We must be, 9k whips against 4k impen doesn't need a buff - especially the likes of free x5 in a row
Ah yes, those mythical 9k whips against 4k impen. If only Sorcs had access to hard hitting abilities, mobility, sustain. Such a shame.
Right? They have unblockable - put purage able ability that can be cast every 3.5 secs, that's so much like an instant free spammable that deals more damage.
Tell @DDuke that mDK has no mobility.
You obviously dont play top tier
Please keep the personal insults coming. It definitely helps your cause. I'm sorry you apparently have trouble fighting DKs and/or playing your Sorc, really I am.
Nice edit
Edited by Kilandros on January 12, 2018 10:30PMInvictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0