Very Frustrated with Transmutation Crystals ZOS (PvE vs. PvP)

Tenn60 · January 2018

As someone who enjoys both sides, I find it comical when pve players complain about something pvp players get. They have bent over backwards to please the pve community, which truthfully is probably bigger so makes sense from a business standpoint, and have all but abandoned pvp. Pvp players in my guild that hate dungeons, trials, etc still have to hop out and do them if they want the rewards and gear for pvp. It is way more time consuming for them to do something they hate then for you to do pvp for 30 minutes. Believe me I was pissed when they first came out and spent 2 and a half hours in banished cells with a crappy pug group because I thought pve would be the easier way to make gems, only to make 1. I agree the should increase it for the pve side but don’t pretend like it’s so unfair pvp players finally get something

ArchMikem · January 2018

Vapirko wrote: »

Well thanks to you and others complaining and crying to no end, instead of taking advantage of it, it’s now going to be nerfed to a maximum of one crystal per account per day. Great job. People always have to ruin the good things in this game. We finally have ONE thing that’s easier to acquire via PvP and y’all have to go ahead and *** it up.

Hot dayum I just got a big whiff of victim blaming here. You all do realize that easier way was actually an exploit?

Irylia · January 2018

“ Why? Why should I do something I hate to get something I want instead of ZOS catering to both sides of its playerbase. I'm sure I'm not the only one who despises PvP.” -op

Why should I have to hunt for skyshards/lore quest books on every toon just so I can play the game.
Why should I have to complete trials dozens of times, vma a hundred times or dungeons too many times to count for undaunted on all 12 toons 100 times for a bsw inferno staff drop and god knows how many other runs in every other dungeon that has a pvp set in a perfect trait too not just training or infused.

Pvp players play your content just so they can enjoy pvp. Casuals or pve players should have to participate in pvp as zos wants their player base to play all content.

Wonder how many of those players were just in pvp for geodes and how many we will have now.

Aisle9 · January 2018

Transairion wrote: »

Daily Pledges -> Purple uncracked Geode, possible reward between 1 and 10 crystals.
vDSA -> 5 crystals
vMA -> 4 crystals
Weekly vet and normal trials -> 5 crystals
Leaderboard score for trials -> 5 crystals
Random normal dungeons -> green geode, 1 crystal

Whoever brought this up as "proof PvE gets more", keep in mind a certain skill level is required for all the bolded examples: and frankly I think we can agree most average ESO players are not capable of freefarming vMA or vDSA, let alone Veteran Trial leaderboard scores.

Normal pledges also only award Green Geodes, so the average Normal-completing PvE player will usually earn 4 Crystals per day (Random Normal + all normal Pledges). As skill level increases, so does reward but Veteran Dungeons are kind of a bad example since their Purple Geode often only drops the one Crystal.

On the flipside, earning the 20,000 to 25,000 AP required (the latter for End of Month reward) can be done even without any support: after all, taking resources gives 1600 AP for capture and Keeps give 6400(?) AP for their capture. It can be done on a fresh level 10 without any gear if you follow the crowd, or have a stronger player helping in the case of resources. Unlike PvE this fluctuates with player actions, if enemy factions are preventing any kind of captures which I understand.

Also keep in mind on (current) PTS, Battlegrounds will now give a whopping 10,000 AP per game (coming dead last): so that's 2 Battlegrounds per RoTW Bag. Probably why they went ahead and changed RotW to account-wide, if I'm honest.

Increased the Alliance Point rewards for your team’s placement in Battlegrounds. This equates to the following:
100% increase in AP if your team comes in first place, or a new total of 12,000 AP
175% increase in AP if your team comes in second place, or a new total of 11,000 AP
400% increase in AP if your team comes in third place, or a new total of 10,000 AP

In general though, the effort and skill requirements for reaching maximum PvP stones and maximum PvE stones is really skewed in PvP's favor. Complete scrubs like me who are terrible PvP'ers can, and have been farming Transmutate stones in that content because it's so much easier than something like farming vMA/vDSA or staying on the Vet Trial leaderboards. If you are skilled enough to do so, then good for you, but you're above average and most will still be running Normal or non-DLC Vet Dungeons at best.

Do note: I disagree that RotW is being changed/nerfed as it is, because that gain is fine... but the average PvE'r reward is still a joke. That's why everyone goes into PvP, even if for an hour every month.

We're taking into account a 30 days period of time, because the end of tier campaign reward arrives after 30 days after the campaign begins.

Daily pledges (non DLC only) + normal random, assuming you always get the lowest reward, is 3 crystals. Doing this every day for a month = 90 crystals. Weekly normal trial (you didn't bold it, so I'm assuming you counted that as doable) means 20 crystals on top of that for a total of 110 crystals. Last boss of a dungeon has a small chance to drop crystals, let's say 2 crystals drop every 15 dungeons. 90 dungeons -> 12 crystals. Total of 122 crystals.

End of tier campaign is 50 crystals (after 30 days, not right away, unlike PvE rewards), plus you get 4 crystals from the RotW, that accounts for 170 crystals.

Let's change it up a bit, let's say every purple geode gives 2 crystals, and every gold gives 5.

60 purple geodes -> 120 crystals.
+ 20 from weekly normal trial -> 140.
+ 30 from random normal -> 170
+ 12 from last boss -> 182.

50 for end of tier campaign
+ 30 gold geodes -> 200.

Let's say every purple geode gives an average of 3 crystals, and every gold one gives an average of 6.
60 purple geodes -> 240 crystals
+ 20 from weekly normal trial -> 280
+ 30 from random normals -> 310
+ 12 from last boss -> 322

50 for end of tier (unchanged)
+ 30 geodes -> 290.

You keep going on, the difference increases.

So assuming the reward is always the lowest one, PvP makes it easier to make crystals.
As soon as the RNG is slightly better, PvE makes it easier to make crystals.

We already put into account that the RotW are getting changed.

Now, this whole argument was taking into account a scrublet zerg surfing, and only doing the accessible PvE content.

What happens when you can do vMA, vDSA, veteran trials (commonly known as endgame) ? More crystals.

I can tell you what happens if you play better in PvP: nothing happens. Same amount of crystals.

"But you can do it on multiple characters"... well, so do you (._. )

Have a nice day.

Biro123 · January 2018

Extremely disappointed at all this new dungeon loot coming out for Update 17 - which I'm gonna need for PVP..

Why do I ONLY get this loot from PVE? Why do I have to stop doing the content I love to crawl around the same dungeon repeatedly with a different bunch of strangers each time when I'd rather be out there competing vs real players.

Jeez..

If only we could get this gear from PVP - even at a substantially lower drop-rate (when compared to PVE), I'd be over the moon!
Bit like transmutation crystals really.. but the other way around.... The difference is - I'd be HAPPY with that!!!

The sense of entitlement.......

esotoon · January 2018

Transairion wrote: »

Do note: I disagree that RotW is being changed/nerfed as it is, because that gain is fine... but the average PvE'r reward is still a joke. That's why everyone goes into PvP, even if for an hour every month.

You mean giving more transmute crystals as a reward is encouraging more people to go to Cyrodiil?

Huh, funny that.

It's almost as if far from meant to being 'fair' and 'balanced', rewards are used to drive players to do certain content.

Make it balanced and you take away the incentive for players to try Cyrodiil, and you also take away the reason a lot of players grind PVE dungeons. Sure it will mean less people doing daily ESO content, but at least everyone will be happy, right?

Mureel · January 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

No, you do get your wish that PvP is getting the shaft once again,

But no, all you guys managed to do is get the PvP drop nerfed, you will not receive any more

Is it really being nerfed? I play on shor ic all the time to get my gold geodes. Pls say it isn't so!

jakeedmundson · January 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

Extremely disappointed at all this new dungeon loot coming out for Update 17 - which I'm gonna need for PVP..

Why do I ONLY get this loot from PVE? Why do I have to stop doing the content I love to crawl around the same dungeon repeatedly with a different bunch of strangers each time when I'd rather be out there competing vs real players.

Jeez..

If only we could get this gear from PVP - even at a substantially lower drop-rate (when compared to PVE), I'd be over the moon!
Bit like transmutation crystals really.. but the other way around.... The difference is - I'd be HAPPY with that!!!

The sense of entitlement.......

Go play call of duty then.
Elder scrolls has ALWAYS been PVE. Whether you like it or not, that is the main focus of this game. That is also where a majority of the player base sits.
PVP is just a "side piece"

Mureel · January 2018

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

You PVP players aren't even comprehending that even with the new changes, you will still earn VASTLY more stones than people that passionately hate PVP. This is because of the end-of-campaign rewards that hand you 50 at a time WITHOUT FAIL, PER CHARACTER that earned even one rewards of the worthy mail during the campaign.

How is this even remotely balanced? PVE players literally can only earn a maximum of 10 at a time, and that's if we basically win the Geode Lottery, as I have personally almost never seen a number higher than 5 in my geodes for doing Vet HM pledges. The vast majority of the time it will be exactly 5 for each pledge, meaning if you can clear all 3 pledges (including the DLC pledges on Vet HM, in other words, NO) on hard mode vet, you will pretty much always get no more than 15 stones per day. That takes HOURS, compared to PVPing long enough to get 20k AP for a reward mail, securing the 50 stones at the end of the month PLUS whatever stones you get in that reward mail, DAILY, PER CHARACTER.

You PVPers need to stop complaining, you're still making stones hand-over-fist while us PVE players earn them at a snail's pace.

You have to wait 30 days to get that big 50

If you do the 3 daily’s plus the normals Random’s on all characters and if you have 8 character you can get 32 a day in pve

Ur lazy that is all

Do you know how long it takes to do 3 vet hardmode pledges? Have you even attempted it? I absolutely hate PVP and can still go into Vivec and earn enough for that reward mail in less than 2 hours, securing me up to 50 stones right then and there, and then another 50 at the end of the month. You're talking about at least 4 hours (I'm being very generous here if you try to PuG it) for a maximum of 30 stones, but realistically no more than 20. Screw you if you think that's anywhere close to an acceptable comparison.

Yeah this! It's the only thing that brings my milkshake to the yard. If nerfed then lol forget it.

ArchMikem · January 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

Extremely disappointed at all this new dungeon loot coming out for Update 17 - which I'm gonna need for PVP..

Lemme guess...the Zaan set every PvPer is hating?

Mureel · January 2018

Runschei wrote: »

I don't know about you or how you get your information on pvp, but it's not that common to get any more than 4-6 gems pr box you open. I have opened hundreds ever since the function launched and I got 25 twice, other than that it has been 4-6 gems pr character every day. Doing trials will guarantee you 5. I don't get the problem really, but yeah thanks for complaining about it so pvp gets one box pr account daily

This is true - gold ones aren't much better than purple ones at all.

Azurya · January 2018

I stopped farming long ago

cauze I hate it, and after doing so many dungeons, trials, pledges and whatever over and over
just to see with the next patch a new downgrade in gear and abilities,
clear, ZOS says it is balancing, I say it is wrecking

it didn´t make any sense any more
and I stopped it
now most of my chars, 11 at max lvl, run mostly crafted gear, some have monstersets, but not all

and guess what, I am bigshot, killing, ravaging whatever I like
and that is it what I am doing right now
I am having FUN

ZOS can keep their peanuts(like the crystals), I am not going to dance for them
I am not going anywhere for them , I do what I like! Cya ingame

Chilly-McFreeze · January 2018

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Extremely disappointed at all this new dungeon loot coming out for Update 17 - which I'm gonna need for PVP..

Why do I ONLY get this loot from PVE? Why do I have to stop doing the content I love to crawl around the same dungeon repeatedly with a different bunch of strangers each time when I'd rather be out there competing vs real players.

Jeez..

If only we could get this gear from PVP - even at a substantially lower drop-rate (when compared to PVE), I'd be over the moon!
Bit like transmutation crystals really.. but the other way around.... The difference is - I'd be HAPPY with that!!!

The sense of entitlement.......

Go play call of duty then.
Elder scrolls has ALWAYS been PVE. Whether you like it or not, that is the main focus of this game. That is also where a majority of the player base sits.
PVP is just a "side piece"

Funny guy. Hard to PvP in a single player game.

But to add to that: Go play Skyrim then. Elder Scrolls Online has ALWAYS been PvE and PvP. Wheter you like it or not, PvP is part of the game. That is also where a good part of the palyer base sits.
PvEonly is just a "side piece".

Really, get off your high horse and don't come here telling everyone what this game is about. As long as there is PvP, it needs an incentive so narrow minded guys like you try the other half of the game. They make come to like it.

I repeat myself from the other whiny thread about pvp rewards getting more crystals. This reminds me why I'm on the brink of leaving this game. Because of a community so self destructive they rather demand nerfs to "the other side" than asking for increased drops to "their part" of the game.

Lowering PvP drops won't get you more PvE crystals. Sooner or later you sit at the cap anyway. But whatever, I'm just waiting for the next whining about "pvp balance updates are runing my pve experience".

Mureel · January 2018

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

You PVP players aren't even comprehending that even with the new changes, you will still earn VASTLY more stones than people that passionately hate PVP. This is because of the end-of-campaign rewards that hand you 50 at a time WITHOUT FAIL, PER CHARACTER that earned even one rewards of the worthy mail during the campaign.

How is this even remotely balanced? PVE players literally can only earn a maximum of 10 at a time, and that's if we basically win the Geode Lottery, as I have personally almost never seen a number higher than 5 in my geodes for doing Vet HM pledges. The vast majority of the time it will be exactly 5 for each pledge, meaning if you can clear all 3 pledges (including the DLC pledges on Vet HM, in other words, NO) on hard mode vet, you will pretty much always get no more than 15 stones per day. That takes HOURS, compared to PVPing long enough to get 20k AP for a reward mail, securing the 50 stones at the end of the month PLUS whatever stones you get in that reward mail, DAILY, PER CHARACTER.

You PVPers need to stop complaining, you're still making stones hand-over-fist while us PVE players earn them at a snail's pace.

You have to wait 30 days to get that big 50

If you do the 3 daily’s plus the normals Random’s on all characters and if you have 8 character you can get 32 a day in pve

Ur lazy that is all

Do you know how long it takes to do 3 vet hardmode pledges? Have you even attempted it? I absolutely hate PVP and can still go into Vivec and earn enough for that reward mail in less than 2 hours, securing me up to 50 stones right then and there, and then another 50 at the end of the month. You're talking about at least 4 hours (I'm being very generous here if you try to PuG it) for a maximum of 30 stones, but realistically no more than 20. Screw you if you think that's anywhere close to an acceptable comparison.

You don’t have to do hard mode vet trials to get them you can do normals that take 10-20mins and get more

My point was th op wants to change a trait on an item

If they farmed normals they could get it in 2 days if they did pvp they would have to wait 30 days

What? You only get 1 crystal per normal so 3 a day unless you have a lot of Alts I guess then if all 8 alts were running that's 24/ day but who runs dungeons on 8 alts? Nah.

I guess some do, but hello burnout!

Tenn60 · January 2018

Irylia wrote: »

“ Why? Why should I do something I hate to get something I want instead of ZOS catering to both sides of its playerbase. I'm sure I'm not the only one who despises PvP.” -op

Why should I have to hunt for skyshards/lore quest books on every toon just so I can play the game.
Why should I have to complete trials dozens of times, vma a hundred times or dungeons too many times to count for undaunted on all 12 toons 100 times for a bsw inferno staff drop and god knows how many other runs in every other dungeon that has a pvp set in a perfect trait too not just training or infused.

Pvp players play your content just so they can enjoy pvp. Casuals or pve players should have to participate in pvp as zos wants their player base to play all content.

Wonder how many of those players were just in pvp for geodes and how many we will have now.

Exactly

Go play call of duty then.
Elder scrolls has ALWAYS been PVE. Whether you like it or not, that is the main focus of this game. That is also where a majority of the player base sits.
PVP is just a "side piece"[/quote]

There has never been an elder scrolls online game before so where are you getting that information, sure there were the elder scrolls games, but it’s hard to compare a single player game to an mmo. This same mentality is why I have left every pve guild I’ve been in, you have this mentality that every part of the game should revolve around you when clearly a selling point of the game was the pvp aspect. I’m sure when it’s done pvp won’t get any crystals and pve will get 6-700 an hour and you will still complain.

jakeedmundson · January 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Extremely disappointed at all this new dungeon loot coming out for Update 17 - which I'm gonna need for PVP..

Why do I ONLY get this loot from PVE? Why do I have to stop doing the content I love to crawl around the same dungeon repeatedly with a different bunch of strangers each time when I'd rather be out there competing vs real players.

Jeez..

If only we could get this gear from PVP - even at a substantially lower drop-rate (when compared to PVE), I'd be over the moon!
Bit like transmutation crystals really.. but the other way around.... The difference is - I'd be HAPPY with that!!!

The sense of entitlement.......

Go play call of duty then.
Elder scrolls has ALWAYS been PVE. Whether you like it or not, that is the main focus of this game. That is also where a majority of the player base sits.
PVP is just a "side piece"

Funny guy. Hard to PvP in a single player game.

....? Call of duty has been multiplayer/pvp focused since ...2006? ish?
every friend i have that buys those games doesn't even finish (or even play in some cases) the single player campaign.

Chilly-McFreeze · January 2018

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Extremely disappointed at all this new dungeon loot coming out for Update 17 - which I'm gonna need for PVP..

Why do I ONLY get this loot from PVE? Why do I have to stop doing the content I love to crawl around the same dungeon repeatedly with a different bunch of strangers each time when I'd rather be out there competing vs real players.

Jeez..

If only we could get this gear from PVP - even at a substantially lower drop-rate (when compared to PVE), I'd be over the moon!
Bit like transmutation crystals really.. but the other way around.... The difference is - I'd be HAPPY with that!!!

The sense of entitlement.......

Go play call of duty then.
Elder scrolls has ALWAYS been PVE. Whether you like it or not, that is the main focus of this game. That is also where a majority of the player base sits.
PVP is just a "side piece"

Funny guy. Hard to PvP in a single player game.

....? Call of duty has been multiplayer/pvp focused since ...2006? ish?
every friend i have that buys those games doesn't even finish (or even play in some cases) the single player campaign.

That was about the "every TES title has been about pve" remark.

Aisle9 · January 2018

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Extremely disappointed at all this new dungeon loot coming out for Update 17 - which I'm gonna need for PVP..

Why do I ONLY get this loot from PVE? Why do I have to stop doing the content I love to crawl around the same dungeon repeatedly with a different bunch of strangers each time when I'd rather be out there competing vs real players.

Jeez..

If only we could get this gear from PVP - even at a substantially lower drop-rate (when compared to PVE), I'd be over the moon!
Bit like transmutation crystals really.. but the other way around.... The difference is - I'd be HAPPY with that!!!

The sense of entitlement.......

Go play call of duty then.
Elder scrolls has ALWAYS been PVE. Whether you like it or not, that is the main focus of this game. That is also where a majority of the player base sits.
PVP is just a "side piece"

Funny guy. Hard to PvP in a single player game.

....? Call of duty has been multiplayer/pvp focused since ...2006? ish?
every friend i have that buys those games doesn't even finish (or even play in some cases) the single player campaign.

Every TES title released lacked multiplayer, though, so PvP was effectively impossible.

Moglijuana · January 2018

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Wanna know how many Monster Helms PVPers get as a reward? 0
Wanna know how many undaunted keys we get as a reward? 0
Wanna know how many dungeon sets we get as a reward? 0

So yes, whilst PVEers do get far less geodes, whilst doing PVE content you are getting set pieces/monster helms all the time that may have the trait you are after.

It only takes one single 1-2-hour run of a vet dungeon to get a monster helmet you can easily retrait with your absurd PVP stone rate.
It only takes a few hours' worth of dungeons to get 6+ keys and the likelihood you'll get the shoulder you want is dependant on which chest it belongs to.
How many dungeon sets are actually run in PVP?

Also, (not) sorry to state facts, but MMOs are almost entirely PVE content. If you hate PVE, why the hell are you playing an MMO?

It takes an hour to do a vet dungeon? Wtf? I literally soloed Engine guardian last night and finished the dungeon in like 30 min lmao. With 4 dps Vet Dungeons take one thumb instead of 2.

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Also, you suggesting that you can get 10 + 30 stones every day is the biggest joke of all. How many times have you actually seen the purple geodes go over 6? If your experience is anything like mine, the answer is pretty much never.

And how many times have you seen RotW geodes giving out 25 crystals?

That's not the main point. PVE players do not get multiple complete transmutes' worth of stones at the end of every month. PVP players get 50 stones per month per character (so if you do PVP for a couple hours with 8 characters, that's a minimum of 8 transmutes, closer to 10 with RotW geode luck). Nobody should need more transmutes than that, the content updates for this game are too slow for that, so depending on exactly how many characters you have, and how many you still need gear for, by PVPing you can have all of it transmuted within one single month. There is NO way you can do that by PVEing short of literally living in the game and doing nothing else with your life.

Add onto that, PVP sets can all be bought from other players I believe, so it's much easier to just buy an item with the wrong trait on it then transmute it into a BiS item. You can't do that with dungeon or trial sets.

My 1,000 + runs of City of Ash for a BSW staff so I can use it in PvP laughs at your argument. Seems fair right?

Biro123 · January 2018

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Extremely disappointed at all this new dungeon loot coming out for Update 17 - which I'm gonna need for PVP..

Why do I ONLY get this loot from PVE? Why do I have to stop doing the content I love to crawl around the same dungeon repeatedly with a different bunch of strangers each time when I'd rather be out there competing vs real players.

Jeez..

If only we could get this gear from PVP - even at a substantially lower drop-rate (when compared to PVE), I'd be over the moon!
Bit like transmutation crystals really.. but the other way around.... The difference is - I'd be HAPPY with that!!!

The sense of entitlement.......

Go play call of duty then.
Elder scrolls has ALWAYS been PVE. Whether you like it or not, that is the main focus of this game. That is also where a majority of the player base sits.
PVP is just a "side piece"

Funny guy. Hard to PvP in a single player game.

....? Call of duty has been multiplayer/pvp focused since ...2006? ish?
every friend i have that buys those games doesn't even finish (or even play in some cases) the single player campaign.

It's a good job they don't have to for the gear they need to be able to play the PVP part....

fwiw, ESO's initial advertising was focussed towards PVP. Much of the initial ESO playerbase came from MMORPG players who were drawn to the PVP that ESO was offering. Recent polls show that there is about an equal population who ONLY PVP to that who ONLY PVE = the majority do both.

Aisle9 · January 2018

re

Moglijuana wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Wanna know how many Monster Helms PVPers get as a reward? 0
Wanna know how many undaunted keys we get as a reward? 0
Wanna know how many dungeon sets we get as a reward? 0

So yes, whilst PVEers do get far less geodes, whilst doing PVE content you are getting set pieces/monster helms all the time that may have the trait you are after.

It only takes one single 1-2-hour run of a vet dungeon to get a monster helmet you can easily retrait with your absurd PVP stone rate.
It only takes a few hours' worth of dungeons to get 6+ keys and the likelihood you'll get the shoulder you want is dependant on which chest it belongs to.
How many dungeon sets are actually run in PVP?

Also, (not) sorry to state facts, but MMOs are almost entirely PVE content. If you hate PVE, why the hell are you playing an MMO?

It takes an hour to do a vet dungeon? Wtf? I literally soloed Engine guardian last night and finished the dungeon in like 30 min lmao. With 4 dps Vet Dungeons take one thumb instead of 2.

Shush, that didn't happen, the Party doesn't allow for that kind of propaganda.

Aisle9 · January 2018

Mureel wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

You PVP players aren't even comprehending that even with the new changes, you will still earn VASTLY more stones than people that passionately hate PVP. This is because of the end-of-campaign rewards that hand you 50 at a time WITHOUT FAIL, PER CHARACTER that earned even one rewards of the worthy mail during the campaign.

How is this even remotely balanced? PVE players literally can only earn a maximum of 10 at a time, and that's if we basically win the Geode Lottery, as I have personally almost never seen a number higher than 5 in my geodes for doing Vet HM pledges. The vast majority of the time it will be exactly 5 for each pledge, meaning if you can clear all 3 pledges (including the DLC pledges on Vet HM, in other words, NO) on hard mode vet, you will pretty much always get no more than 15 stones per day. That takes HOURS, compared to PVPing long enough to get 20k AP for a reward mail, securing the 50 stones at the end of the month PLUS whatever stones you get in that reward mail, DAILY, PER CHARACTER.

You PVPers need to stop complaining, you're still making stones hand-over-fist while us PVE players earn them at a snail's pace.

You have to wait 30 days to get that big 50

If you do the 3 daily’s plus the normals Random’s on all characters and if you have 8 character you can get 32 a day in pve

Ur lazy that is all

Do you know how long it takes to do 3 vet hardmode pledges? Have you even attempted it? I absolutely hate PVP and can still go into Vivec and earn enough for that reward mail in less than 2 hours, securing me up to 50 stones right then and there, and then another 50 at the end of the month. You're talking about at least 4 hours (I'm being very generous here if you try to PuG it) for a maximum of 30 stones, but realistically no more than 20. Screw you if you think that's anywhere close to an acceptable comparison.

You don’t have to do hard mode vet trials to get them you can do normals that take 10-20mins and get more

My point was th op wants to change a trait on an item

If they farmed normals they could get it in 2 days if they did pvp they would have to wait 30 days

What? You only get 1 crystal per normal so 3 a day unless you have a lot of Alts I guess then if all 8 alts were running that's 24/ day but who runs dungeons on 8 alts? Nah.

I guess some do, but hello burnout!

Pledges:
You can do the dungeon on normal difficulty (for 1 key and a green geode)
You can do the dungeon on veteran difficulty (for 1 key and a purple geode)
You can optionally activate Hard Mode for the last boss on veteran difficulty (2 keys and a purple geode)

As for the calculations, please refer to this:

Aisle9 wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

Daily Pledges -> Purple uncracked Geode, possible reward between 1 and 10 crystals.
vDSA -> 5 crystals
vMA -> 4 crystals
Weekly vet and normal trials -> 5 crystals
Leaderboard score for trials -> 5 crystals
Random normal dungeons -> green geode, 1 crystal

Whoever brought this up as "proof PvE gets more", keep in mind a certain skill level is required for all the bolded examples: and frankly I think we can agree most average ESO players are not capable of freefarming vMA or vDSA, let alone Veteran Trial leaderboard scores.

Normal pledges also only award Green Geodes, so the average Normal-completing PvE player will usually earn 4 Crystals per day (Random Normal + all normal Pledges). As skill level increases, so does reward but Veteran Dungeons are kind of a bad example since their Purple Geode often only drops the one Crystal.

On the flipside, earning the 20,000 to 25,000 AP required (the latter for End of Month reward) can be done even without any support: after all, taking resources gives 1600 AP for capture and Keeps give 6400(?) AP for their capture. It can be done on a fresh level 10 without any gear if you follow the crowd, or have a stronger player helping in the case of resources. Unlike PvE this fluctuates with player actions, if enemy factions are preventing any kind of captures which I understand.

Also keep in mind on (current) PTS, Battlegrounds will now give a whopping 10,000 AP per game (coming dead last): so that's 2 Battlegrounds per RoTW Bag. Probably why they went ahead and changed RotW to account-wide, if I'm honest.

Increased the Alliance Point rewards for your team’s placement in Battlegrounds. This equates to the following:
100% increase in AP if your team comes in first place, or a new total of 12,000 AP
175% increase in AP if your team comes in second place, or a new total of 11,000 AP
400% increase in AP if your team comes in third place, or a new total of 10,000 AP

In general though, the effort and skill requirements for reaching maximum PvP stones and maximum PvE stones is really skewed in PvP's favor. Complete scrubs like me who are terrible PvP'ers can, and have been farming Transmutate stones in that content because it's so much easier than something like farming vMA/vDSA or staying on the Vet Trial leaderboards. If you are skilled enough to do so, then good for you, but you're above average and most will still be running Normal or non-DLC Vet Dungeons at best.

Do note: I disagree that RotW is being changed/nerfed as it is, because that gain is fine... but the average PvE'r reward is still a joke. That's why everyone goes into PvP, even if for an hour every month.

We're taking into account a 30 days period of time, because the end of tier campaign reward arrives after 30 days after the campaign begins.

Daily pledges (non DLC only) + normal random, assuming you always get the lowest reward, is 3 crystals. Doing this every day for a month = 90 crystals. Weekly normal trial (you didn't bold it, so I'm assuming you counted that as doable) means 20 crystals on top of that for a total of 110 crystals. Last boss of a dungeon has a small chance to drop crystals, let's say 2 crystals drop every 15 dungeons. 90 dungeons -> 12 crystals. Total of 122 crystals.

End of tier campaign is 50 crystals (after 30 days, not right away, unlike PvE rewards), plus you get 4 crystals from the RotW, that accounts for 170 crystals.

Let's change it up a bit, let's say every purple geode gives 2 crystals, and every gold gives 5.

60 purple geodes -> 120 crystals.
+ 20 from weekly normal trial -> 140.
+ 30 from random normal -> 170
+ 12 from last boss -> 182.

50 for end of tier campaign
+ 30 gold geodes -> 200.

Let's say every purple geode gives an average of 3 crystals, and every gold one gives an average of 6.
60 purple geodes -> 240 crystals
+ 20 from weekly normal trial -> 280
+ 30 from random normals -> 310
+ 12 from last boss -> 322

50 for end of tier (unchanged)
+ 30 geodes -> 290.

You keep going on, the difference increases.

So assuming the reward is always the lowest one, PvP makes it easier to make crystals.
As soon as the RNG is slightly better, PvE makes it easier to make crystals.

We already put into account that the RotW are getting changed.

Now, this whole argument was taking into account a scrublet zerg surfing, and only doing the accessible PvE content.

What happens when you can do vMA, vDSA, veteran trials (commonly known as endgame) ? More crystals.

I can tell you what happens if you play better in PvP: nothing happens. Same amount of crystals.

"But you can do it on multiple characters"... well, so do you (._. )

Have a nice day.

Contraptions · January 2018

I think even with this change PVP still has a higher rate of crystal earning than PVE in certain circumstances. Assume we have two accounts each with one character and no DLCs. One exclusively PVPs and one exclusively PVEs, and that we always get the minimum number of crystals from geodes with variable amounts. Over a 30 day campaign period:

For PVP, we get 30 Reward boxes with 4 each = 120

Plus end of campaign = 50

For a total of 170 per month.

For PVE, we get 4 rounds of craglorn trial weeklies = 4 * 15 = 60

Plus 30 sets of non dlc pledges = 60

Plus 30 daily dungeons = 30

For a total of 150 per month.

Of course, the key difference is that for PVE, the potential max amount of crystals you earn scales off the number of DLCs you have. On the other hand, for PVP, the max amount of crystals you can earn scales off the number of characters you have (in the current system). This is an issue with the way the game works. Unless they change the reward system to scale off some consistent source for both PVP and PVE, the transmute crystal system will never be fair.

Moglijuana · January 2018

Aisle9 wrote: »

re

Moglijuana wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Wanna know how many Monster Helms PVPers get as a reward? 0
Wanna know how many undaunted keys we get as a reward? 0
Wanna know how many dungeon sets we get as a reward? 0

So yes, whilst PVEers do get far less geodes, whilst doing PVE content you are getting set pieces/monster helms all the time that may have the trait you are after.

It only takes one single 1-2-hour run of a vet dungeon to get a monster helmet you can easily retrait with your absurd PVP stone rate.
It only takes a few hours' worth of dungeons to get 6+ keys and the likelihood you'll get the shoulder you want is dependant on which chest it belongs to.
How many dungeon sets are actually run in PVP?

Also, (not) sorry to state facts, but MMOs are almost entirely PVE content. If you hate PVE, why the hell are you playing an MMO?

It takes an hour to do a vet dungeon? Wtf? I literally soloed Engine guardian last night and finished the dungeon in like 30 min lmao. With 4 dps Vet Dungeons take one thumb instead of 2.

Shush, that didn't happen, the Party doesn't allow for that kind of propaganda.

You're right. I'll have to apologize to the pugs I left dead on the floor the whole boss fight because they couldn't stay near the healer (me) who was also the main dps (me) while being the main tank as well (me). lol.

IcyDeadPeople · January 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

The PVP drop rate is changing in Update 17 because the ability to get a geode by opening Rewards of the Worthy on characters that didn't earn them was an exploit.

PTS Patch Notes: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/388819/pts-patch-notes-v3-3-0/p1

Transmutation
Rewards for the Worthy mails now only grant a guaranteed Transmutation Geode once per day per account.
Previously, they would give a guaranteed Transmutation Geode once per day per character.
The chance to get Transmutation Geodes from additional mails is unchanged.

Now, PVP players will be able to earn a guaranteed 4-25 stones per day that they earned Rewards of the Worthy, with a chance to gain extra from more Rewards.

IMO this is a bad change to the game. I would suggest instead to adjust it so we get one geode per day for each character we spend time playing in pvp and actually earn the Reward for the Worthy on (instead of just opening the mails on each character). That's how we thought it would work at first and it's a fun way to encourage playing other characters, comparable to PVE-ers doing dungeons or whatever on multiple characters.

Now we can only receive one geode per day for the entire account, while PVE player is encouraged to log on their alts and receive more total crystals - on top of all the gear and other items they receive from PVE.

AhPook_Is_Here · January 2018

I'm going to guess that the reason they set the system up this way is first because when PVE players hit their grinding goals they tend to stop playing till they need to grind something again, where PVP players tend to play regardless of grinding goals as long as they enjoy the game. By setting the system up this way they can achieve two things; first to keep you playing for a longer period of time PVEing and second, create an opportunity to indoctrinate you into the PVP game mode, which requires considerably less development time as it is self-sustaining and essentially finished content that undergoes minor adjustments and updates. This allows them more time between content cycles, and allows them to have a lower overhead of developers. It's marketing win-win 101.

Inarre · January 2018

I dont understand why this thread is a PVE vs PVP player thread. Zos gave both types of players crystals to encourage activity in both types of play. But I think its reasonable to request that the effort/time:stone ratio is somewhat consistent.

What people say here is correct, it does take a lot more time to earn the same amount of stones in PVE than it does in PVP. If that were not true people wouldn't suggest PVP as the most efficient way to farm stones any time there is a "what's the best way to farm stones" thread.

I think its fine to request that pve is buffed to be somewhat more profitable to match pvp. Asking for that isn't crying to nerf pvp or refusing to pvp. It's simply pointing out an imbalance in rewards between the two types of play.

If that's intentional, then well, zos will ignore the suggestion *shrugs* no need to get your panties in a knot.

Aisle9 · January 2018

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

I'm going to guess that the reason they set the system up this way is first because when PVE players hit their grinding goals they tend to stop playing till they need to grind something again, where PVP players tend to play regardless of grinding goals as long as they enjoy the game. By setting the system up this way they can achieve two things; first to keep you playing for a longer period of time PVEing and second, create an opportunity to indoctrinate you into the PVP game mode, which requires considerably less development time as it is self-sustaining and essentially finished content that undergoes minor adjustments and updates. This allows them more time between content cycles, and allows them to have a lower overhead of developers. It's marketing win-win 101.

Pretty much, yeh.

Even though some of the calculations regarding the "PvP gets more stones" are kind of inaccurate. I mean, they're not now, but the system is getting changed to be balanced already, so they are arguing for the sake of argument.

AnviOfVai · January 2018

Honestly, I have LOADS of these damn things and all they do is fill up my bag, I have no use for them, nor do I want them can I gold instead please so I can level my gear that way? I can't craft myself..

can you gift them? because if I can email them away to players I would happily do so

Transairion · January 2018

Now, this whole argument was taking into account a scrublet zerg surfing, and only doing the accessible PvE content.

What happens when you can do vMA, vDSA, veteran trials (commonly known as endgame) ? More crystals.

I can tell you what happens if you play better in PvP: nothing happens. Same amount of crystals.

"But you can do it on multiple characters"... well, so do you (._. )

Have a nice day.

(When you play better in PvP you get more kills, so more AP, more Rewards of the Worthy bags faster... just saying. When you do endgame content as well, you don't go in primarly for the 5 Transmute stones either... they're just a byproduct)

But are you going to completely ignore the amount of effort required in these calculations?

Earning 25,000 AP once a month vs 4 dungeons daily for that whole month is a pretty big difference in time invested: the entire reason PvE gain is seen as so bad because it's such a slow unrewarding grind, while PvP can be "set then forget" for the other 29 days for what is comparatively a big payoff.

This is before taking into account, as you said, multiple characters... 8 characters or more x 4 dungeons for 30 days straight? I doubt anyone possibly has need for that many Transmute Crystals to put in that much effort daily.

Again, what is the logic is a Random Daily dungeon only giving a single Crystal but the equivalent PvP daily gives 4 at minimum? In my experience the RotW Geode gives 5 stones almost as often as 4 (the minimum), while the PvE Veteran Geode (purple) has never given me higher than 1 Stone. It's pretty sad given it's a "better" Geode.

Is there any harm in giving PvE the same Geode for the dailies, instead of just nerfing PvP?

You mean giving more transmute crystals as a reward is encouraging more people to go to Cyrodiil?

Huh, funny that.

It's almost as if far from meant to being 'fair' and 'balanced', rewards are used to drive players to do certain content.

Encouraging players who don't want to be there to surge in for a single day then leave for the remaining 30 days, while (frankly) kind of leeching off the actual competitive PvP players and being freefarmed isn't really ideal. But this is exactly what happens during every Imperial City double Telvar event too, and it hasn't really helped PvP any.

Entering PvP, hitting stone threshold then leaving isn't really what you want hundreds of players to be doing regularly.