Please Take Your Dungeon Roles Seriously

WreckfulAbandon · October 2017

Sovi3tKitsch wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

I'm going to dispute point 2 for healers. If a healer is rezzing, the group isn't getting heals. Healers should never be rez. That is either the DPS or the tanks job to get people up.

I was about to say this same thing. If the healer is rezzing and someone else dies because they weren't getting healed, then it just makes the problem worse.

Agreed. DPS should always rez unless both of them are down. In that event it's up to the tank or healer and they can work that out themselves depending on the situation.

Incorrect. This thinking is bourgeoisie decadence. The DPS resurrect who the commissar say to resurrect. If commissar say tank heal, then tank heal. The Party will subvert reality or ruin the world trying! For the freedom of the oppressed workers!

Apologies for the bad edit, office just had a purge some of the comrades are taking time off for ideological improvement. If you do not correct your line you might be taking a train east soon.

Thunderknuckles · October 2017

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Thunderknuckles wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

I'm going to dispute point 2 for healers. If a healer is rezzing, the group isn't getting heals. Healers should never be rez. That is either the DPS or the tanks job to get people up.

Well, and in some of those dungeons you're almost constantly being interrupted by AoE's going off everywhere. We did CoA II last night and one dps went down. I, the healer, was trying to get'em back up and simply could not due to constant interrupts. Well, or stand there in the stupid taking massive damage the whole time hoping I get that player back in action before going down myself.

Magdalina wrote: »

This is why you first get yourself an Annulment(and perhaps a HoT too), then go on ressing That coupled up with the cp passive reducing dmg taken when ressing is pretty op.

I agree you shouldn't res at the cost of everyone else's lives but I really wish people would let that whole "I'm a healer and my job is to heal, therefore I shall not res, bash or do any other silly nonsense" thing go. Seriously, it's not as simple as that. There're dps races in this game, some of which can actually be challenging with pugs, and the loss of 6 seconds' worth of dps can literally mean a wipe. There're mechanics that keep the dps otherwise busy. There're situations where healer and 1 dps are the only ones alive and dps gets boss agro. Oh and if you see a bashable mechanic, whatever your role is, for the love of the Eight PLEASE BASH. Let me tell you, there's nothing more maddening than trying to get an inexperienced pug through vet CoS, have everyone but me and healer die on dunmer boss, kite him for literally full half a minute(his heavies if connected were one shotting me with 30k dmg. So I was kind of too busy avoiding that to res) and inevitably die because the healer would neither res nor bash the chain down attack. 10 times in a row. We made it through the whole dungeon eventually btw - once we got rid of that healer and got a proper one.

Healer's main job is to keep everyone alive, dps' main job is to do dps. A dps ressing is an inevitable dps loss. If (and only if) a healer can res without risking teammembers dying, then it's both everyone alive and no dps lost so this is perfect.

@Thunderknuckles , what constant interrupts? There are a total of 4 attacks in the first phase:
Light attacks, if tank doesn't have aggro.

Lich Crystals, total of four, timed, and can be counted off, sidestepped, and then no longer an issue.

Skull attack, 1 in 3 chance it will be you (would be 1 in 4, but someone's down.)

Teleport + Point Blank - if you're in it, you dodge out first. If you're not in it, you ignore.

Apart from that, top off your group, perhaps a HoT as well, hold block, rez...

You can block and rez. This will reduce incoming damage and prevent most interrupts. There's also a CP tree that reduces damage taken while rezzing.

@Magdalina A dps rezzing is a temporary dps loss. A dead dps is a guaranteed DPS loss. Two dead DPS or a dead tank is likely a wipe, so unless you are certain the remaining members can hold there own for a few, it's still better for dps or tank to rez.

Thunder, as to the prospect of healer should never rez, that, too is situational. In some cases it's perfectly valid for the healer to get the rez for various reasons, such as the speed bonus when the tank is down, while the DPS kite. Sometimes the tank can eat damage, keep aggro, and get the rez then step away.

There is no cut a dry rule for every group and situation. It all depends on what is going on and what your group can handle. Adjust accordingly.

Mmmm, don't think we're talking about the same bosses. LOL When I commented I was actually thinking of the Ash Titan in CoA II vet. I think that's him, anyway. Spewing fire in all directions for extended periods, etc.

Alexandrious · October 2017

Mojmir wrote: »

rule number 1:
if you havent done the dungeon on vet,say so.

Rule number 2: Expect to be kicked immediately if so, unless your cp 600+

Kek.

Alexandrious · October 2017

Niobium wrote: »

Zbigb4life wrote: »

I would have to learn a lot, I want to do dungeons (even veteran ones) but I would hate to get in a group that doesn't explain the dungeon mechanics...

i want to learn these dungeons though.

- most.

Kek

Alexandrious · October 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

ValkynSketha wrote: »

It is zos fault, they should implement training instances for roles, combat and classes, i will say it again, problem with this game group content is new player thinking they can play how they want in eso (as ehm they advertised) which is not true, sure you can play how you want in overland content(sort of actually since as a 30k health bow/bow play how you want dd build you don't want to spend 100years clearing stuff), however, in group content you are in a group performing what is good for the group, at least what is at the bottom of the good.

And coddle players even more than they are already doing so?

Xiv did it cupcake, now look where that game is.

Kek

Trashkan · October 2017

Never rez with healer until all dps are dead or in a phase where no damage is being applied.

BNOC · October 2017

This whole thread is lol

Iccotak · January 2018

A Tank is spending resources not only on blocking and keeping the enemy on them, but also on buffs, and sometimes healing themselves in emergencies.
Sure, they can take alot of damage BUT if you are not keeping enough buffs (on top of their buffs) and heals on them, then they are draining their resources to do that for you and make up for the lack of aid they are receiving, and leaves them unable to keep the boss in one place.
It really helps when someone is keeping buffs on them as it prevents certain major damage output from nearly/entirely killing them.
At which point the Boss will turn on you.
SO Healers, your main focus should be keeping the tank up. It is better to focus on keeping buffs and resources up than heals. You can't heal what is already dead

Understand that the Tank may not always have the stamina to roll dodge out of the way of certain mass damage attacks. Also Roll dodging drains stamina which hampers their abillity to block and aggro the boss. BUT if you keep buffs up on them then they will survive those instances and can keep the boss in one place rather than spending stamina to keep out of the bosses way (which is the opposite of what they should be doing.)
Healers, if you are not doing your job you can make it near impossible for the Tank to do theirs.

Iccotak · January 2018

HeroOfNone wrote: »

When playing with PUGS or new people I recommend the following guidelines:

Tank Priorities
DPS Priorities
Healer Priorities

After you fight a while you can adjust more into secondary priorities.

Also the tank's job isn't really to hold a boss in one spot, there are fights specifically designed to make you move to locations to hit a switch, deal with adds, and other stuff. It may hurt DPS, but it's better than standing in red.

"#6 Restore Resources
Templars abilities certain armor sets have the ability to return resources to the group, restoring magicka or stamina. The more resources they get back, the longer dps can use abilities and the longer tanks can block. Typically party members won’t need this till a few minutes into a fight, but adjust for how your group acts."

^THIS^

FrancisCrawford · January 2018

idk wrote: »

Keep the tank and dps topped off. Healing isn't about keeping health bars filled. It's about keeping enough health in everyone. However, poorly skilled players often take huge damage that often leads to one shots.

Once you get a set of SPC you want everybody at full health as much as possible. So you might as well get in the habit of keeping them topped up from the getgo.

Similarly, healers should keep as close to 100% uptime (at least during fights) on HoTs as possible.

SupremeRissole · January 2018

My main requirement no matter what role you queue for:
Don't queue for a random if you don't know/are willing to do ANY of the dungeons (this includes DLC especially).
Too many times do I queue for a random vet, get Bloodroot Forge for example, have two people instantly leave because they don't want a hard one and the remaining guy doesn't know mechanics.

17k health? No. My sorc has less than 17 and has finished all hardmode dungeons without a healer. So no, just no.

Healer can res if they know what they are doing e.g can anticipate no major incoming damage, pop an ult or lots of HoT's. But realisticly a dps should res first.

VaranisArano · January 2018

SupremeRissole wrote: »

My main requirement no matter what role you queue for:
Don't queue for a random if you don't know/are willing to do ANY of the dungeons (this includes DLC especially).
Too many times do I queue for a random vet, get Bloodroot Forge for example, have two people instantly leave because they don't want a hard one and the remaining guy doesn't know mechanics.

17k health? No. My sorc has less than 17 and has finished all hardmode dungeons without a healer. So no, just no.

Healer can res if they know what they are doing e.g can anticipate no major incoming damage, pop an ult or lots of HoT's. But realisticly a dps should res first.

You can have 17k health or lower if that's what works for you and you aren't getting one-shot or dying or requiring a healer to constantly heal you. It sounds like you aren't having any problems, so by all means, do what works for you.

That's not the case for most players, hence why 17-18k health is a common piece of advice for most players (especially players who can't make liberal use of damage shield the way sorcs can). As a healer, I find that low-health players who aren't actually good enough to run with less than 17k health need a lot of maintenance and constant healing. Its simply a matter of them falling to low health that much quicker than everyone else when they take ongoing damage. So the 17-18k health is more of a recommendation than a requirement, but its good advice that makes it easier for less experienced players to survive and makes the healer's job a lot easier. From a healer's perspective, there's a pretty big difference between 14k and 17k health on anyone other than a shield-using sorc.