DDuke wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

watched it and i like it! looks really fun.

i dont have access to eye of the mara.. is a wizards riposte a good replacement? if not i have to get someone to craft it for me^^

also how high is your healing ward shield?

I think the set is reducing the cost of resto spells which in turn increase the uptime on defensive spells which in turn add to your defense.

I think the sets are different defensive mechanics. One is intuitive (Mara) requiring you to basically know when to drop your ultimate+healing Ward's while the other is more passive (reposte) letting you go on the offensive by backbaring the last set piece. Also Mara might not be zerg fight friendly given healing/shields do terrible against more than 3-4 players at once whereas reposte reduces the DMG of everyone can scores a crit hit on you with no cap.

Two different playstyle sets.

Sort of.

Mara offers some "zerg defense" by reducing the resto ulti cost, which in turn allows you to survive multiple attackers for a while. You will have to find LoS though in these types of fights

I'm not sure if Riposte would help much there, you're going to be spamming Healing Wards a lot in those situations anyway on a non-S&B build, and running out of magicka is the biggest concern there.

That makes more sense, yea.

Moglijuana wrote: »

Not posting to bash. I originally watched your PvP video for this build and just wanted to put my two cents in as I've tried multiple versions of this build on Ps4 and have been messing with staff builds since launch.

I've tried (and yes 1vX is possible...to an extent) :

Shackle/Willpower/Skoria/Master Destro/Mael Resto
^^^My fav build, literally plays like a nb^^^

Sun/Mara/Skoria
Sun/Riposte/Skoria
Sun/Spectre/Skoria
BSW/Riposte/Skoria
BSW/Mara/Skoria
BSW/Spectre/Skoria


And the one thing that always makes me change back...snares & CC. Idk what it is, but every time I watch PC gameplay no one seems to know how to CC/Snare correctly. I am not questioning your skill, you seem to be very knowledgeable on the class and its strengths, it's just something I notice on a lot of PC pvp videos...on Ps4 NA I find myself literally breaking free every single time the CD is over while being snared to all hell. Even with immovables, 11k stam isn't enough to survive more than one person correctly CC'ing you. Mist form is an absolute must if you plan on 1vXing with only using one shield and under 15k stam and even then it only delays your inevitable death. Chains is useful... on a few conditions:

1. Will the ability even work? I have about a 70% success rate of it even working correctly.
2. Is there anyone even far enough away to chain to? If so...chain away. No? I hope you have enough sustain to spam H.W. until an ulti or someone shows up who is far enough away to chain to. Or mist.
3. "Dodged.Dodged.Dodged." seems to be the norm.

If you have pocket heals, staff build all day. It is by far my preferred style of MagDK PvP

Definitely a fun build, but it's not as effective as I would hope, at least in my experience (console players CC more than usual?). Maybe with the upcoming combat changes (faster heavies?) more staff builds will show up, but currently from my experience it's always "meh". Who knows, maybe ppl just love focusing me as soon as they see me BC they love me? Idk.

As long as you're having fun though, that's all the matters.

interesting points. im looking forward to the response of the op

DDuke wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Not posting to bash. I originally watched your PvP video for this build and just wanted to put my two cents in as I've tried multiple versions of this build on Ps4 and have been messing with staff builds since launch.

I've tried (and yes 1vX is possible...to an extent) :

Shackle/Willpower/Skoria/Master Destro/Mael Resto
^^^My fav build, literally plays like a nb^^^

Sun/Mara/Skoria
Sun/Riposte/Skoria
Sun/Spectre/Skoria
BSW/Riposte/Skoria
BSW/Mara/Skoria
BSW/Spectre/Skoria


And the one thing that always makes me change back...snares & CC. Idk what it is, but every time I watch PC gameplay no one seems to know how to CC/Snare correctly. I am not questioning your skill, you seem to be very knowledgeable on the class and its strengths, it's just something I notice on a lot of PC pvp videos...on Ps4 NA I find myself literally breaking free every single time the CD is over while being snared to all hell. Even with immovables, 11k stam isn't enough to survive more than one person correctly CC'ing you. Mist form is an absolute must if you plan on 1vXing with only using one shield and under 15k stam and even then it only delays your inevitable death. Chains is useful... on a few conditions:

1. Will the ability even work? I have about a 70% success rate of it even working correctly.
2. Is there anyone even far enough away to chain to? If so...chain away. No? I hope you have enough sustain to spam H.W. until an ulti or someone shows up who is far enough away to chain to. Or mist.
3. "Dodged.Dodged.Dodged." seems to be the norm.

If you have pocket heals, staff build all day. It is by far my preferred style of MagDK PvP

Definitely a fun build, but it's not as effective as I would hope, at least in my experience (console players CC more than usual?). Maybe with the upcoming combat changes (faster heavies?) more staff builds will show up, but currently from my experience it's always "meh". Who knows, maybe ppl just love focusing me as soon as they see me BC they love me? Idk.

As long as you're having fun though, that's all the matters.

To answer your questions:

1. I haven't had any bugs with Chains, besides maybe 1-2 times when it wouldn't initially go off when I cast it (2nd cast has always worked though). Fossilize is another matter though...
2. If there's no one far away to chain to, that's a good thing (unless you needed to escape a zerg or something). It means there's enemies in your melee range to kill/heal off from with Fossilize->Power Lash. I mean, the build does use destro staff (so you have some modest ranged capabilities), but at its core it's a melee build.
3. Empowering Chains is undodgeable, as is every skill on my bar apart from Flames of Oblivion projectiles & non-proc whip.


It's largely due to chains that this build works - it means you can reliably stick to targets & nuke them down. It also gives you 6 seconds of Major Empower which helps negate lots of the snares.

CC never really is a problem when you play around it. Assuming you get CC'd precisely every 6 seconds & have 56 points in Warlord, it'd take 1440 stam regen to be able to CC break every time.

My build runs only 647, but since Immovability Potions keeps me immune 1/3rd of the time, only around 965 stam regen is required to always be able to CC break. With Helping Hands passive this is achieved easily. As long as you have magicka, you can even guarantee to always have enough stam for CC break by casting Molten Armaments

E.g. you're at 2k stamina, NB cloaks - what do you do? You buff yourself with Molten Armaments twice & now you can CC break+Healing Ward when that Ambush+Incap arrives, and next time you'll probably have Immovable pot up again and can just delete that NB with your damage.


Only thing you've got to be careful with is to not block, block cast or dodge too much.

I do sometimes mess that part up still, but it's something I can get better at - not something that's a build liability, if that makes sense.

Is chains actually supposed to be undodgeable? Like warden bird spam equivalent? If that is the case I'll go out and solo pvp some more tonight and see how my results fare. Currently that is one of my biggest gripes. An unreliable way to apply my offensive heals when needed on targets who are attempting to CC/DMG from range. That is why mist is so much more valuable to me because I can face tank incoming damage while slowly closing the gap.

DDuke wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Not posting to bash. I originally watched your PvP video for this build and just wanted to put my two cents in as I've tried multiple versions of this build on Ps4 and have been messing with staff builds since launch.

I've tried (and yes 1vX is possible...to an extent) :

Shackle/Willpower/Skoria/Master Destro/Mael Resto
^^^My fav build, literally plays like a nb^^^

Sun/Mara/Skoria
Sun/Riposte/Skoria
Sun/Spectre/Skoria
BSW/Riposte/Skoria
BSW/Mara/Skoria
BSW/Spectre/Skoria


And the one thing that always makes me change back...snares & CC. Idk what it is, but every time I watch PC gameplay no one seems to know how to CC/Snare correctly. I am not questioning your skill, you seem to be very knowledgeable on the class and its strengths, it's just something I notice on a lot of PC pvp videos...on Ps4 NA I find myself literally breaking free every single time the CD is over while being snared to all hell. Even with immovables, 11k stam isn't enough to survive more than one person correctly CC'ing you. Mist form is an absolute must if you plan on 1vXing with only using one shield and under 15k stam and even then it only delays your inevitable death. Chains is useful... on a few conditions:

1. Will the ability even work? I have about a 70% success rate of it even working correctly.
2. Is there anyone even far enough away to chain to? If so...chain away. No? I hope you have enough sustain to spam H.W. until an ulti or someone shows up who is far enough away to chain to. Or mist.
3. "Dodged.Dodged.Dodged." seems to be the norm.

If you have pocket heals, staff build all day. It is by far my preferred style of MagDK PvP

Definitely a fun build, but it's not as effective as I would hope, at least in my experience (console players CC more than usual?). Maybe with the upcoming combat changes (faster heavies?) more staff builds will show up, but currently from my experience it's always "meh". Who knows, maybe ppl just love focusing me as soon as they see me BC they love me? Idk.

As long as you're having fun though, that's all the matters.

To answer your questions:

1. I haven't had any bugs with Chains, besides maybe 1-2 times when it wouldn't initially go off when I cast it (2nd cast has always worked though). Fossilize is another matter though...
2. If there's no one far away to chain to, that's a good thing (unless you needed to escape a zerg or something). It means there's enemies in your melee range to kill/heal off from with Fossilize->Power Lash. I mean, the build does use destro staff (so you have some modest ranged capabilities), but at its core it's a melee build.
3. Empowering Chains is undodgeable, as is every skill on my bar apart from Flames of Oblivion projectiles & non-proc whip.


It's largely due to chains that this build works - it means you can reliably stick to targets & nuke them down. It also gives you 6 seconds of Major Empower which helps negate lots of the snares.

CC never really is a problem when you play around it. Assuming you get CC'd precisely every 6 seconds & have 56 points in Warlord, it'd take 1440 stam regen to be able to CC break every time.

My build runs only 647, but since Immovability Potions keeps me immune 1/3rd of the time, only around 965 stam regen is required to always be able to CC break. With Helping Hands passive this is achieved easily. As long as you have magicka, you can even guarantee to always have enough stam for CC break by casting Molten Armaments

E.g. you're at 2k stamina, NB cloaks - what do you do? You buff yourself with Molten Armaments twice & now you can CC break+Healing Ward when that Ambush+Incap arrives, and next time you'll probably have Immovable pot up again and can just delete that NB with your damage.


Only thing you've got to be careful with is to not block, block cast or dodge too much.

I do sometimes mess that part up still, but it's something I can get better at - not something that's a build liability, if that makes sense.

Is chains actually supposed to be undodgeable? Like warden bird spam equivalent? If that is the case I'll go out and solo pvp some more tonight and see how my results fare. Currently that is one of my biggest gripes. An unreliable way to apply my offensive heals when needed on targets who are attempting to CC/DMG from range. That is why mist is so much more valuable to me because I can face tank incoming damage while slowly closing the gap.

Well, it does read so on the tooltip :P

"This attack cannot be dodged or reflected."


I'm more curious about Burning Embers, which is also undodgeable (without anything about it on the tooltip).
Both the initial application & when you reapply it for the heal.

Huh, guess it must've changed in one of these new patches. I'll admit I haven't run chains for more than a few minutes since 1T to even notice the tool tip. The message of "Invalid Target" triggered me too much to even care. Let's see how many times I get that message tonight

Yea idk about B.E. to be honest. Hopefully they don't find a way to nerf it. It's not amazing now, but definitely in a much better spot than where it was.

So I just spent some gold and made this build but am running sun and Mara's with 2 skoria. I have only played it for a few hours but here is some things I've noticed.

1. More tanky than I expected. I was kiting in a tower around 5-10 people just using wings, healing ward , and resto ulti.
2. Damage is nice and chains is amazing. It allows you to stick to your opponent and burst them down.
3. My coordination with this setup still needs practice. I'm often not using my skills at the right time. I ended up taking elemental drain off and replacing it with flames of Oblivion and on the back bar I slotted rapid regeneration for extra heals.
4. I'm not a vampire but am considering it strongly. I hate mist form but in some situations it can help LOSS and possibly surviving a situation.
5. Really would like to run bloodspawn because constantly being able to hit life giver is op. However I feel like damage would suffer alot.

Overall obviously mobility is the biggest weakness but your surprisingly tanky in light and if you can space out some people you can burst them down quickly. I'm almost tempted to run deep breath for extra burst.

Overall I'm having fun with this and it's a nice break from Stam warden.

since bgs will become no cp again, did u test this build in sotha sil^^?

DDuke wrote: »

Here's a video of the tests I made: https://youtu.be/q2oUzes2_xE

You know what that video reminds me of? Cyrodiil, couple of months after launch. I nostalgically remember how i used to be able to CC break into a dodge roll near-instantly after being CC-ed, like the above shows. Cyrodiil today? Primetime? Bah

Often i go through the complete CC break animation, yelling and hand waving all done, and my character just keeps standing there, ability bar grayed out, unable to move...

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

E.g. you're at 2k stamina, NB cloaks - what do you do? You buff yourself with Molten Armaments twice & now you can CC break+Healing Ward when that Ambush+Incap arrives, and next time you'll probably have Immovable pot up again and can just delete that NB with your damage.

My problem is more along the lines of "NB casts fear, i start to furiously hammer the CC break button while watching my character run around waving his hands in the air, then taking an incap+SA+LA to his light-armored behind and dying"

Or alternatively, getting rune caged 0.5 seconds before impact of meteor+shard+curse+wrath.

That NB gank is what has made me slot cauterize, triying to keep it up 100% time.

Though my build is quite diferent to Duke's one

DDuke wrote: »

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

So I just spent some gold and made this build but am running sun and Mara's with 2 skoria. I have only played it for a few hours but here is some things I've noticed.

1. More tanky than I expected. I was kiting in a tower around 5-10 people just using wings, healing ward , and resto ulti.
2. Damage is nice and chains is amazing. It allows you to stick to your opponent and burst them down.
3. My coordination with this setup still needs practice. I'm often not using my skills at the right time. I ended up taking elemental drain off and replacing it with flames of Oblivion and on the back bar I slotted rapid regeneration for extra heals.
4. I'm not a vampire but am considering it strongly. I hate mist form but in some situations it can help LOSS and possibly surviving a situation.
5. Really would like to run bloodspawn because constantly being able to hit life giver is op. However I feel like damage would suffer alot.

Overall obviously mobility is the biggest weakness but your surprisingly tanky in light and if you can space out some people you can burst them down quickly. I'm almost tempted to run deep breath for extra burst.

Overall I'm having fun with this and it's a nice break from Stam warden.

Awesome, good to see people experimenting with this build (and non-S&B builds in general).

Which destro skill did you slot on front bar in place of Elemental Drain? I hope you're not missing the +8% single target damage from Ancient Knowledge :P

The crit from flames of Oblivion make up for it a bit. What so you think about deep breath or draw essence in this spot. Could add burst with leap similar in fashion to sub assault and dawnbreaker. Also how mandatory do you feel skoria is? Haven't got a chance to play much last few days. Look forward to testing more in a few days when I have some time.

Subversus wrote: »

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

So I just spent some gold and made this build but am running sun and Mara's with 2 skoria. I have only played it for a few hours but here is some things I've noticed.

1. More tanky than I expected. I was kiting in a tower around 5-10 people just using wings, healing ward , and resto ulti.
2. Damage is nice and chains is amazing. It allows you to stick to your opponent and burst them down.
3. My coordination with this setup still needs practice. I'm often not using my skills at the right time. I ended up taking elemental drain off and replacing it with flames of Oblivion and on the back bar I slotted rapid regeneration for extra heals.
4. I'm not a vampire but am considering it strongly. I hate mist form but in some situations it can help LOSS and possibly surviving a situation.
5. Really would like to run bloodspawn because constantly being able to hit life giver is op. However I feel like damage would suffer alot.

Overall obviously mobility is the biggest weakness but your surprisingly tanky in light and if you can space out some people you can burst them down quickly. I'm almost tempted to run deep breath for extra burst.

Overall I'm having fun with this and it's a nice break from Stam warden.

Awesome, good to see people experimenting with this build (and non-S&B builds in general).

Which destro skill did you slot on front bar in place of Elemental Drain? I hope you're not missing the +8% single target damage from Ancient Knowledge :P

The crit from flames of Oblivion make up for it a bit. What so you think about deep breath or draw essence in this spot. Could add burst with leap similar in fashion to sub assault and dawnbreaker. Also how mandatory do you feel skoria is? Haven't got a chance to play much last few days. Look forward to testing more in a few days when I have some time.

Without ele drain I can't see any reason to run destro over 2h on a magdk, you're already melee and 2h has FM.

I've considered this.

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

We may all be running this build next update huh

@WillhelmBlack
the damage caused by the block changes (if it's only the calculation change) can be minimized, snb mDK will not be dead

ak_pvp wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

We may all be running this build next update huh

@WillhelmBlack
the damage caused by the block changes (if it's only the calculation change) can be minimized, snb mDK will not be dead

Its apparently only switching block cost to the start, so it'd be less effective when stacked with sturdy, and the overall cost will go down 20%. So a buff if not running an enchant.

Won't the patch notes detailing everything be out tommorrow?

Gave it a go with chains this past weekend. Things I liked and didn't like...

Like:
1.Chains. Un-dodgeable FINALLY!!!! Really good in Bgs as long as you stay near your team or have clear openings for burst.
2.Resto Ulti OP. Especially when it's so cheap. I prefer the other morph though for the crit.
3.Skoria. Great for Bg's and 1v1. Usually helps with some killing blows.

Dislike:
Most of these are from open world...
1. Chains. Was pretty useless in open world with the amount of snares/cc. I also usually fight extremely outnumbered. Without a templar as soon as ur snared its a countdown to who dies first. Swapped immediately for mist and had better results instantly...was "ok" when ulti dropping with a team.
2. Relying on only healing ward as damage mitigation. In a small scale group...good luck getting your own shield. When pressured without an ult = death.
3. Skoria. Not my cup of tea in open world. Usually targeted the wrong person I was trying to kill. Swapped to grothdar and had much better success with ulti drops.
4. 11k stam. Simply not enough without two shields/mist while getting focused. Being able to at least dodge roll ONCE helps dramatically as you can mitigate 100% of all incoming dodgeable damage. Thats the best kind of mitigation possible. Also lets you Healing Ward->Dodge Roll->Mist into LOS.

Changes I made and some reasons why:
1.Bsw->SUN...guaranteed damage on front bar is important in my eyes. I love BSW dont get me wrong, but sometimes you just need a quick leap for a KB and if BSW isn't procced then its gg. Plus, me dropping skoria gives me the health I need to stay at 23k.
2.Mara->LICH...Mara is good...but Harness coupled with Healing Ward is just too strong to ignore. With lich proc + pot + ulti dump you're at 100% and by the time you get low again all CD's will be over.
3.Skoria->GROTHDAR...biggest issue I find with magDK while fighting multiple people is being able to target that one low target who is usually behind someone else. You MIGHT get lucky with skoria proccing on that target, but usually it doesn't. With grothdar you just pop an immovable and stay right on target after an ulti drop and it usually ends in a KB. No targeting required. Also sitting at 39k max mag is nice.
4.TRI-FOOD. My BiS for MagDK since day one. Lich lets you drop regen drink. 1636 unbuffed regen (3106 with pot + lich) + harness is more than enough sustain.

Skill changes I made:
1.FRONT - Engulfing/Eruption, Burning Embers, Ele Drain, Fossilize, Flame Lash, Leap
2. BACK - Mist, Healing Ward, Harness, Volatile, Molten, Resto Ulti/Bats

*New favorite combo with grothdar* - Ele Drain, L.A., Burning Embers, L.A., Fossilize, Eruption, L.A., Whip-> Flame Lash -> Leap

Again. This is all preference. BSW+MARA+SKORIA is a great build and pairs well with groups but lacked in areas that were important to my own play style. Ty OP for sharing your build. I found some things I liked and didn't like and it helped make my own play style better. Cheers!

I have a few good 1vX, 2vX clips I recorded this weekend, I'm sure I'll post a vid later this month after some more testing. Destro/Resto Magk DK is fun as s**t.