Radinyn wrote: »

Ban the mod! Ban the addon-maker! Ban the addon-users! Ban the victims of that addon! Ban the people who don't know anything about that addon! Cheese for everyone!

no just adjust the addon so it doesnt give unfair advantage on player cast skills without their consent.

no need for hyperbole

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Hempyre wrote: »

Ya,... It doesn't do that at all...

The op has no clue.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/363016/so-miats-pvp-addon-can-detect-stealth-players-even-when-they-are-in-stealth-state

It only tells you that an enemy in stealth is setting up an attack on you. That is entirely different than "helping you find players in stealth".

Saying something like "helping you find" implies this addon detects players attempting to hide or flee while in stealth, when in reality it just tells you about incoming attacks regardless of weather or not the attacking player is visible.

Its important that nobody spreads misinformation about this addon because its a serious topic that does not need to be exaggerated. We need to be accurate about what exactly it does and what exactly should be changed about it.

It also doesnt help when half the people in these threads villify people who use it. We use it because its allowed to be used. If you choose not to use it that is fine but calling other players trash for using something so widespread is not getting us anywhere. Players and even Miat himself should not be criticized for this, the blame is entirely on ZOS for allowing their product to be used in this way. Thankfully they are working on it, hopefully it gets changed soon.

Just wait till they remove it and enjoy all the QQ on the forum about instant kill build from stealth without any counter-play.

Lol, It's been many years since you stupid stealth gankers have killed me. I don't use miats but your screen slightly shakes when someone gap closes you from stealth, also, Snipe takes years to actually land. So as soon as I hear snipe go off i block or dodgeroll. Who needs miats when the game tells you when you are being ganked.

A lot of people are just *** bad at the game and wanna blame something for it.

Bhaal5 wrote: »

Consoles: no addons at all.
Zenimax could just remove all add ons? Seems a little unfair that 2 player bases cant use them. (Thrn they should fix the character sheet to relay ALL stats, not just a handful)

Unbelievable anyone would propose something like this seriously.

One can only hope your post is somehow not meant to be taken literally, because this is beyond ridiculous.

Bhaal5 wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Bhaal5 wrote: »

Consoles: no addons at all.
Zenimax could just remove all add ons? Seems a little unfair that 2 player bases cant use them. (Thrn they should fix the character sheet to relay ALL stats, not just a handful)

Unbelievable anyone would propose something like this seriously.

One can only hope your post is somehow not meant to be taken literally, because this is beyond ridiculous.

Dont see any console player complain about miats? Plus if they made the game properly, you wouldnt need add ons true effort?

Just so unreal you keep talking about miat's.... and then before you said ban ALL ADDONS. All. Ban all addons on PC because miat's exists, and because console can't have addons. This is your argument. The logic is just.... not there, at all.

some add-ons like map for book finder or shard spots, love them, but for sneak combat while still in sealth, we cant locate where we get hits as long they use 'perma-shealth' mode, that is cheating, once you made a hit you are no longer invisible until cooldown allows.
it is cheating as long they still remain invisible and hitting repeatly and that would wipe out full group.

this isnt original complaint, just let me tell you a story, it is real story that happened over a decade ago, there were 8 elite marines, fresh off from academy, they signed a contract for online shooting game company, years before first Call of Duty came out, for beta testings.
they had a special testing, their avatars, all have best armor gears, and sent to alaska outpost, to find out why other players complained, with nasty weather effect, zero visiblity, and they were all laid prone, then each one got a single shot, all 8 guys eliminated by a single shot, impossible for anyone to see them without a miss,
either someone hack with enchanted bullets or new enchanted heat goggle which devs never made or allowed, they found hacker in Utah, and it was a kid cheating and made his own tools to beat anything that devs made. the programmers were surprised, they made secured server that cant be open for "datamine", and it got open like tin cans and exposed.
not long later, that company folded due to easy hackings by several players and it was beta and never released.

anyone could make perma invisible hacks if they knew to break ZOS codings, it is considered a cheating.

.

Undefwun wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

It only tells you that an enemy in stealth is setting up an attack on you.

If you choose not to use it that is fine but calling other players trash for using something so widespread is not getting us anywhere.

If I die in Cyro I usually blame myself first. And I do need to l2p. No doubt, but it’s not about that.

If you using Miat’s to dodge something you otherwise wouldn’t have, sorry you’re a trash player. You’re the juice in the bottom of the garbage can on a hot summer’s day. I don’t care if you would face melt me anyway.

I know there a great players who know every animation and incoming sound, but I seen one too many people perform acrobatics worthy of Cirque de Soleil with very consistent timing to give them all the benefit of the doubt.

ZOS is always slow in fixing things, but you know you’re doing the wrong thing and still using it, then yup, you’re hot garbage juice.

If a person is using Miats addon and dodges an attack they wouldn't have known about without the addon, they are just acting on the information they are being presented with. It's impossible to judge a persons skill and ability from that action alone. It's also very possible that not dodging the attack would have changed nothing about the outcome of the engagement.

We can't just assume that every time somebody dodges an attack because they use Miats addon, that they would have otherwise melted because they suck. Just because this addon will enable a bad player to perform better, doesn't mean taking away the addon will make every player worse.

Why is it "wrong" that people use Miats addon? You might think it's wrong, but why should someone believe you? I don't think it's wrong. It's part of the game. ZOS isn't banning people for using it. A lot of the people you face in combat will be using it against you. I don't see what's so "wrong" about using it. I don't like that it exists. I don't like that ZOS allowed an addon to work in that way. I hope it gets fixed, quickly. But I don't feel like it's wrong for anyone to use it. I encourage everyone to use it.

I don't object to you calling me bad because I am offended to be called bad, I object because your insulting me is entirely based on my usage of an addon, and that is some false logic. If the best ESO player in the world installed Miats addon, would they suddenly become bad?

Expecting people to put themselves at a disadvantage in a competitive online video game is crazy. It won't happen.

Cherryblossom wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Serious ask

If Zos are going to continue to allow Miats addon, with users constantly able to find me in stealth without the use of skills or pots, also able to avoid my attacks by use of the addon, can we at least have a rework of the NB class to make it playable in PVP?

If you are not willing to to end the "prescient" gifts this addon bestows then please at least give us a NB class we can play in PvP.

thank you.

.... But you keep passing on false and misleading information.

Is that you Donald ?

Undefwun wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

If a person is using Miats addon and dodges an attack they wouldn't have known about without the addon, they are just acting on the information they are being presented with. It's impossible to judge a persons skill and ability from that action alone. It's also very possible that not dodging the attack would have changed nothing about the outcome of the engagement.

We can't just assume that every time somebody dodges an attack because they use Miats addon, that they would have otherwise melted because they suck. Just because this addon will enable a bad player to perform better, doesn't mean taking away the addon will make every player worse.

Why is it "wrong" that people use Miats addon? You might think it's wrong, but why should someone believe you? I don't think it's wrong. It's part of the game. ZOS isn't banning people for using it. A lot of the people you face in combat will be using it against you. I don't see what's so "wrong" about using it. I don't like that it exists. I don't like that ZOS allowed an addon to work in that way. I hope it gets fixed, quickly. But I don't feel like it's wrong for anyone to use it. I encourage everyone to use it.

I don't object to you calling me bad because I am offended to be called bad, I object because your insulting me is entirely based on my usage of an addon, and that is some false logic. If the best ESO player in the world installed Miats addon, would they suddenly become bad?

Expecting people to put themselves at a disadvantage in a competitive online video game is crazy. It won't happen.

You are now getting information you were meant to get from sight/sound etc as a message on you screen. It’s actually an insult to the great players who have mastered it by practice over time. Now any potato can tell by using an add on.

No other addon I know actually changes combat. I can see my buffs better, my health bars are nicer and my mini map is helpful , but those are QoL improvement. You dodging my heavy+skill weave or cripple from stealth because of an addon is wrong. Bit disconcerting you don’t see the ethical issue here. By your logic using CE was ok until ZOS officially banned ppl for it.

Yes I know ZOS hasn’t taken an official stance on miats and made it illegal (like CE) but the ethical issue still stands. Unless you can tell by sound that a fireball/snipe is going to hit you, your using info not meant for you. Yes it’s ZOS’s fault for exposing that part of the API.

Think of it like using a new performance enhancing drug in pro sports just because it hasn’t officially been banned yet. It’s grey area, no it’s not illegal but you’re a bad person for using it. By your logic every athlete should dope up until the drug is banned.

Let’s see what ZOS does about it, until then I’ll think less of ppl as a person for using it as there is something wrong with your moral compass.

For that analogy to work the sporting officials would have given the players a lab kit full of chemicals, egging them on to try to concoct some kind of super drug mix to enhance their performance. But, at some point the players decided a certain blend of chemicals was hurting the sportsmanship of the game so the officials said they would work on getting a new lab kit of chemicals out, without the mix that hurt the game.

ZOS have taken an official stance on Miats, they allow it.

There are other addons that change combat in the same way. Some of the most popular ones have huge warnings about being stunned or having to cleanse. They also show all sorts of information that isn't available to the default UI. Kill confirmations, battle logs, and even other parts of Miats addon all show information you wouldn't be able to see without the addon.

What if I shoot a siege over a hill and hit some players who I know work really well together. Without an addon all I know is I hit some players, with the addon I can see their names. Is that morally wrong?

What if I am riding past a farm, with no addon I would be unaware of anything happening there. With Miats and other PVP alert addons I know that there is a player aggro'ing the NPCs. That changed combat, is it morally wrong?

What if I am in a fight to the death with somebody and one of my buffs go down? With certain addons you can tell easily and cast it again, with the default UI it can easily get lost in the mess of buff markers. Is that morally wrong?

What if I am using s'rendarr on my magsorc and the other sorc isn't using it. I get better indication of crystal frag procs, he doesn't. Is that morally wrong?

What if I am using the auto rapids addon and somebody isn't. My horse goes faster than theirs without taking up a skill slot. Is that morally wrong?

The game allows all sorts of things to be possible. So I will continue to take advantage of them, because they will always be used against me. I encourage everyone to do the same, so we can all be on a somewhat even playing field. I respect my opponent enough to use the addons that make his life more difficult. Is that morally wrong?

badmojo wrote: »

]

ZOS have taken an official stance on Miats, they allow it.

Next update apparently they are doing something. I don’t want them to ban miats. I just hope they tighten up their api and eliminate extraneous info that leads to such add ons.

Since neither of us is budging from our viewpoint... no point continuing.

So glad I'm on Console, the true master race with no add on crutches

Nyghthowler wrote: »

The best thing about Miats all these months has been the salty, salty tears of PvP gankers.
I don't use Miats. I don't PvP. I'm tired of the PvP crowd crying until the Devs nerf everything to placate them as if PvP is the only part of the game that matters.

As a NB, I can tell you that if you are not playing the game with some music in your ears; it is very easy to avoid ganking.
All of our skills can be easily defended for a careful player.
Snipe makes sound, ambush can be countered, shadow is not reliable - not working properly everytime..
There is literally no need for the certain features of Miats addon for a careful player.

Mitrenga wrote: »

Nyghthowler wrote: »

The best thing about Miats all these months has been the salty, salty tears of PvP gankers.
I don't use Miats. I don't PvP. I'm tired of the PvP crowd crying until the Devs nerf everything to placate them as if PvP is the only part of the game that matters.

As a NB, I can tell you that if you are not playing the game with some music in your ears; it is very easy to avoid ganking.
All of our skills can be easily defended for a careful player.
Snipe makes sound, ambush can be countered, shadow is not reliable - not working properly everytime..
There is literally no need for the certain features of Miats addon for a careful player.

How do you counter ambush? When someone teleports to you from the other side of the map in 0.00001 sec? God forbid if you are a magicka build in non-CP. By the time you break free, you are dead. I just got used to the fact that ambush is basically a press-to-win button, but would love to know what is the counter on a magicka character in non-CP?