IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

and everybody else who just uses some sturdy pieces will be able to block a bit longer

Correct. If you currently manage block cost solely through Sturdy, CP, and 1H&S, then you will actually see lower block costs next patch (though your block costs this patch are pretty high).

1x1 tank build is just waste of time and in group or just zerg surfing - rune prison does miracles to permablock builds... whenever I see an enemy tank getting in my range and starting to block that random fire - rune prison his chairconnector and back to the horse simulator...

On a serious note - I never thought that rune prison can be so effectice against perma block builds

More whining about tanks and bad ideas that gut them further...

I'll restate my suggestion that has been present on the forum regarding block for YEARS now. Block shouldn't protect as much as it does. Allow tanks to regenerate stamina like everyone else. Problem solved. Does this mean that Trials might be tougher given current numbers? Absolutely. Does it mean it can be resolved by simple tweaking of numbers? Again absolutely. My problem with the way the system is now is that if they start nerfing block too much no one will play a Tank. Tanking is already fairly boring and for me at least too much more change in the same direction they have been going will put the nail in the coffin for me.

Just gonna say few things as PvE Tank and a PvP player .

PvE Tanking :

According to Gina's comment on one of the Monthly Combat things , there might be a set incoming next patch that reduces block cost . I don't know if this will be a flat or a percentage reduction . Either way , no PvE tank will use it . The leaderboard system is built in such a way , you cannot run a selfish set . To me , it looks like they want to nerf the **** out of tanks so they stop using support sets that have passives that benefit DDs more , like Alkosh or Powerful Assault . Increasing the damage output against tanks in vHoF succeeded that but players adapted in almost a week and went back to support sets again . Same thing will happen again , tanks will figure out a way around the nerf and continue with support sets . We've seen many times what ZOS thinks about tanking in this game . Looking at Minor Aegis and Major Aegis sets obviously . ZOS introduced sets that are far from being useful and continued this way all the time . At this moment , as I am writing this , there is only 1 Heavy Armor support set and it is Ebon Armory , if we do not count Monster Sets that is . If ZOS is just gonna keep nerfing tanks and introduce more selfish ''tank'' sets , they should just do an insane amount of nerf to tanks so we will have to use them . Otherwise , we won't . No one will . I am yet to see a tank that knows what they are doing using a selfish set . ALL of them knows how to get things done without selfish sets . When I started tanking , I was running the tankiest gear I could get . If ZOS wants us to play like that , that is ok for me because at the moment I feel like just a buff machine that holds aggro . Even after the nerf , I will not be using selfish sets and will find a way around the nerf , like every end-game tank does .

PvP :

I said this in another thread but will say it here again . I've seen many videos of permablockers tanking zergs on their own . So , I decided to give it a go . One day in Cyrodiil , not even 10 minutes in and already getting whispers . All of those people who were attacking me were just bad . Sorry but this is the truth . I had absolutely no players against me who had enough brains to use a CC that goes through block . It takes one CC to kill this build . The gear you have to use are all Sturdy , Impregnable is no good at all because there is no damage/healing/sustain boost in that . Obviously , I am talking about the 7th Legion + Werewolf build . With this build , you will have absolutely no Critical Resistance which means suicide in CP campaigns . Only defense is blocking and that's all . Nothing else . I will say something to those who loses to these builds . You are bad . Simple as that . If you can't see your opponent putting DoTs/debuffs on you and switching to Two-Handed for the burst combo , I can only feel sorry for you . What are you expecting ? You will be getting hit by 2 DoTs , a burst Ultimate and an execute ! With a Healing Debuff on you ! I mean , come on ! Just because you can't think of using a CC that goes through block and failing to see the most obvious burst combo preperation in the game , you think those builds are overpowered . Well , no . They are not . You are just bad . Remember those videos you saw on Youtube , some dude tanking 20+ players . None of them uses a CC that goes through block . Now , I'll tell you what happens when you use your brain . My friend (mNB) and me (mDK , not a permablock build , DW+Resto) were in Cyrodiil . We saw several builds that uses the same build . It took us 20 seconds at most to kill them . Just use Fear/Fossilize and time your high damage skills . That's it . Just because most of Cyrodiil is filled with trash players who don't know anything except zerging , all tanks including PvE , gets a huge nerf . Get your **** together .

Let me say few things about mDK permablockers too . There is no such thing . You cannot permablock without using Shield-Play enchants on jewelry . If you are dying to a wet noodle , it means you are the problem . You are just not dealing damage often enough to drain their stamina . That's it . Any mDK who doesn't use Shield-Play enchants will have to drop their block if under decent pressure .

/rantover

Amoureros wrote: »

I didn’t expect this heat on this thread! Thank you to folks who shares productive opinion!

The problem of blocking in pvp is blocking is way more effective than other defensive mechanic such as shuffle, damage shield, dodge, high resistance, streak and even long range build. And block counter skills/mechanic like aoe, power of light, oblivion damage has not enough burst.

Yes perma blocker is not invincible, I have build that can kill any perma blocker but it takes around 30~60 sec to put them down. But in cyrodill you rarely get to fight that long with one person.

IMO, ZOS should introduce block penetration into combat system that reduces enemy’s block percentage. And put back stam regen while blocking. This way won’t hurt PVE at all.

Interesting idea. Though I still think 30-60 seconds sounds right for taking down a true tank

Idea 1: The main problem seems to resolve around one of the best ways to get the highest weapon damage for burst is to run a heavy armor build with sets like seventh legion and ravager, meaning you get great defense, plus great burst. Rework these sets some like change Ravager to a medium armor set and put a cooldown (like 3 seconds) on seventh legion.

Idea 2: Add something to battle spirit that reduces healing, damage, and CC duration done by 50% while blocking (including SnB ultimate) with the logical (immersion based) reason being you are focusing your energy to block so you have less energy to spare with healing and doing damage.

Idea 3: Add a CC skill that is available to all classes (soul trap would be the perfect skill to change) that goes through block similar to the way fear does.

Example: Soul Trap - Lay claim to an enemy's, disorienting them for 3 seconds. CC immunity is applied on break free or when target takes X% amount of damage (based on targets health). disorient goes through block and causes blocking targets to drop block.

Idea 1 seems like the easiest for ZOS to implement but would just be a bandaid nerf that would just cause a meta shift.

Idea 2 probably has the best solution potential as it wouldn't affect build diversity to much and also wouldn't punish PVE while helping solve a PVP problem.

Idea 3 sounds cool. However, considering the amount of hate threads out there in regards to NB fear, I can see this generating the same hate in the long run.

code65536 wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

JUST DELETE THE CHAMPION SYSTEM IN PVP ALREADY!!!

But PvPers have voted with their feet and flock to the 30-day CP campaign instead of the non-CP.

You do have to credit ZOS for pushing non-CP hard. With the launch of Morrowind, BGs were non-CP and every campaign except for one was non-CP. And on top of that, they closed all the campaigns, forcing people to explicitly pick a campaign instead of staying with their inertial campaign.

And people overwhelmingly went to the CP campaign.

In this case, ZOS made a bona fide effort to do exactly what you suggested. If you want to blame someone, maybe look at your fellow players?

Thing is, playing no cp has its own problems.

first problem is that classes are tuned for CP play. When you remove CP problems start.

My stamDk for example, has TERRIBLE stamina regen, has very high costs for blocking, dodge rolling, sprinting, and I have no ways of stopping some dumb builds like bleed stamblades or templar dot cheese, on CP I have like 60+ points into dot resistance for that reason, but in no-CP, nothing.

Meanwhile a class like stamsorc, which is middle tier in CP, can become easily god tier in no-CP, because they have free sustain via dark deal, high mobility, which is very important in no-CP fights since you can't face tank enemies without CP mitigations.

This is just a small example to prove why no-cp isn't what it seems at this point of the game.

So while no-cp eliminates the problems CP brings, it creates new ones.

So the question becomes;

How do I deal with this cheese without CP, or how do I deal with this CP cheese.

depending on your asnwer you play no-CP or CP.