duendology wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

First of with the Redguard NB, yes, I bet they could. Seen it done with a NB that was not a magicka race.

You bet? Alright. You've seen it? Please, point me to this person as I'd like to know how to make Redguard NB self sustainable and group magica healer with endless magica flow.

And your swimming analogy doesn't really work cause you know..... people actually used to do that a lot and sometimes still do that, throw kids in the deep ends to force them to learn how to swim. Not joking about that part sadly.

And this is your argument against mine? "The old ways" to raise children by clearly abusing them as the proof that my analogy does not work?

Never said it was an argument, just said you could have used a better analogy. And do you really think racials mean that much? And where did you mention anything about endless magicka flow? Cause I don't remember that, but anyway, magicka recovery enchantments and atro mundus will do the trick and the biggest thing to good sustain as a healer, don't spam Healing Springs constantly. I see that from sooo many healers, its not necessary, use your abilities wisely and don't spam in vain and your sustain will be just fine. And how to make a NB Redguard healer? Put the exact same set on that you do a Templar and put on the appropriate enchantments and CP, problem solved. I can go on PTS and make a mock up for you now if you want. Racials do not matter that much for Healers and Tanks. If you can't do without the Argonian potion passive or the Bretons cost reduction then you are not as good of a healer as you think you are.

I love NB's HoTs. It's like:
Ok, so I've applied all the HoTs and now I'm going to do something else, you guys have fun, bye.

troomar wrote: »

If you choose to play non-templar healer, you won't fight your class being ineffective or worse than templars, you will fight other people not accepting you as a "true healer" and not giving you a chance.

Mureel wrote: »

It's all well and good to be a NB healer if you never want to go to trials competitively.
If you wanna end game PVE trials, reroll a templar.

Here we are again

Sru wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

- Shards - Feeds mag/stam to allies via synergy. My customers tell me the synergy from shards is much easier to grab than its alternative (the synergy from the Undaunted skill Orbs).

This comment really threw me. Shards have had horrible synergy/targeting for a long time, and you can only have one active. As any flavor of "healer" I can keep a small swarm of orbs active. Much more versatile.

My regular tank far prefers shards to orbs. I can drop it on her and it sticks until she sees the synergy. Likewise I can target the mage or NB as needed. Feedback from many is that orbs fly past and gone before they see the synergy. Yes, you can throw loads up but if people are not up to the very best on picking them up, it is a waste. For their limitations, shards have many benefits.

For the record, I'll toss both around in trials depending on the need. But shards is my goto skill.

As a Tank I will say the same thing, SHARDS over ORBS everyday. They are easier to pick up by a landslide for a tank. We are stationary 90% of the time if not more and there is almost never anyone directly next to us. This makes it really easy to pick it up, and healers can pinpoint throw it specifically to us. Love Shards, but will of course make do with Orbs when that is the only option, beggars can't be choosers.

We've had many threads discussing class choices for healing. So far, this is not one of the better ones. Anyhow:

• One uses different skill while solo leveling than while group healing. Duh. So the only issues that matter here are those that indeed apply to group healing.
• About half of a healer's skills are the same among all classes, namely the ones from the restoration and destruction staff lines.
• Having a straightforward instant burst heal is nice. Templars and sorcerers have the two best in the game.
• Healers are expected to provide resources through the templar skill "Shards" and/or the Undaunted skill "Orbs". Shards is better.
• Healers benefit from skills that enhance magicka recovery. Wardens are probably the best at that. Nightblades and templars also have good class options (separate from Elemental Drain and its "Minor Magicsteal" benefit).
• Healers generally deal some damage. (I just healed a dungeon on my warden while doing >40% of group DPS in most fights.) It's nice if your damage skills also benefit the group in other ways, for example by healing them. This is easier for templars and nightblades than for other classes.
• However, healers are part-time damage dealers. So it's nice to have a class skill that contributes a lot of damage while being cast only occasionally. Two of the best are Purifying Light for templars and Liquid Lightning for sorcerers.

Templar healing is best for me. Sorcerer and warden are also pretty good. Nightblade healing is not.

leeux wrote: »

OP, from my experience, the fact of the matter is that it'd depend on which people you play with. Some people/guilds are set on only Templar healers (or sometimes Templa/Warden in trials), while other people/guilds are more open.

My recommendation is: have both, if you enjoy healing my bet is that in the end you'll want to have a healer of each class, if you have the slots for it

That way, if you're playing with people that is open about it and doesn't make trouble of the fact that you're going with your NB, all's good... but you always have the fall back in any other case.

Also, you'd be covered in case ZOS changes METAs too much and whatever class is best at the time you'd have it ready to step up.

Good point.

I have reasonably qualified healers in all classes but DK, or am training them up.

duendology wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

And do you really think racials mean that much?

Magica flow is obvious and essential for a healer., no?.since resto staff and NB siphoning skills cost magica not stamina..

Races..That much? No. But, apparently, they matter something, because apart from lovely discussions how races do not matter, people do choose magica races for magica builds and stamina ones for stamina builds (even those players, who I see, advocate that races mean so little). Somehow I do not see the trend of High Elf StamBlades or e.g Redguards MagSorcs...
In other words, I know that if I want.. I can, and why the hell not, play a Redguard stamblade..wearing heavy gear and using staff (I'd also love to "adorn" her with beard too just to emphasize my Uniqueness)

It does not mean that there's no room for hybrids..and successful ones at that! I myself am interested in those. I know it's far more fun to play something that is not so....generic, so to speak.

Now..thank you for the tips.:) (I jotted down your suggestions for future reference) But I'll stay with the Stam build for this Redguard girl for now...even though it's hard. Probably she shouldn't have been my very first experience with ESO.. I had gotten myself a pretty hard combo (plus she's a vampire) and I hadn't even realised back then.

you can't do without the Argonian potion passive or the Bretons cost reduction then you are not as good of a healer as you think you are.

Well, I imagine one can't be a good skater if one does not have legs... I think what indicates whether someone is a good healer, or have a potential to be one, is that she or he, first and foremost, can sustain him/herself (as dps) first during a battle and does not have to rely heavily on a healer (I've got a great difficulty with this still with my Red/Stam..and no, to answer your question, I don't have the Vigor yet)

kylewwefan wrote: »

I think @Tasear is basing much of observations from a highly competitive view that just isn’t quite the same as most “normal” players, as references to Bee keep popping up. This includes playing with groups of other high,y competent players.

THIS!

You do realize there is a huge difference between Min/maxing a character and being able to perform the role to the expectations of others right? People ask about what race is the best when they want to minimize the useless stats and maximize the good ones, but the ability to clear content with a class/role combo is not determined by your choice of race for that class/role combo.

As an example from the tanking side, many agree that Imperials and Argonians are the best tanking races in the game right now, but people like Lifoa and Woeler that clear the hardest content with their Tanks are both Dunmer and Khajiit respectively, neither of those two races really have any good bonuses that fit for a Tank, Dunmer a little bit perhaps but a Khajiit not so much. I play as a Dunmer Tank as well, and while being an Argonian or Imperial would make things easier for me its not necessary for successful completion of content on a high level.

The same can be said of race choices for Healers, my wife was for the longest time a Khajiit Templar and as said cleared Hardmode Trials without any issues. Would it have been better to be a Breton or Argoninan? Yes, but was it still doable and able to be competitive? Yes as well.

Now for Damage Dealers it does matter a lot more cause the difference in race will have a somewhat big effect on your total DPS. And numbers are everything for a Damage Dealer, and some have even said earlier in the thread that it can be a difference of as much as 5% DPS. This especially in high end content matters a lot cause having DPS high enough to deal with or skip much of the mechanics is really important. So its far more uncommon to see a miss matched race for a damage dealer than it is a Tank or a Healer.

Does this give a better explanation to the fact that race choice does not matter as much as you think for Healers and Tanks? There are several examples in game from people clearing content showing non min/maxed race choices still completing content without anyone suffering for it.

But I will say this:

you can't do without the Argonian potion passive or the Bretons cost reduction then you are not as good of a healer as you think you are.

Well, I imagine one can't be a good skater if one does not have legs... I think what indicates whether someone is a good healer, or have a potential to be one, is that she or he, first and foremost, can sustain him/herself (as dps) first during a battle and does not have to rely heavily on a healer (I've got a great difficulty with this still with my Red/Stam..and no, to answer your question, I don't have the Vigor yet)

How does being able to sustain yourself as a DPS correspond to you being a good healer? It might help in sustain management but being a good DPS does not correlate directly into you being a good healer, its a different type of game style and what you need to do and look at is very different. However not being able to sustain without the small bonuses of specific races does point to the fact that one has great trouble sustaining as a healer, which is really important.