Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Actually you can do a ton of this solo, just not all dungeons. Also the undaunted daily delves (most people ignore) give a lot of points as well, and can be shared so you can do quite a bit of them every day.

5 of points per day = a lot?

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Mage line - 1 day to max
Fighters line - hours-1 day to max
Undaunted - get a guild / friends = 2-3days to max

Fixed it for you, you're welcome

No, it was ok, you broke it. Go create new char right now and try find a group

@ZOS_GinaBruno please make Undaunted great

Linaleah wrote: »

assuming that you ACTUALLY get a clear for those dungeons. other then first three (and even then - fungal grotto shortcut anyone?) - people. skip. bosses. needed for achievement. that awards. undaunted. points. habitually. ESPECIALLY on vet.

pugging vet dungeons can be a grab bag. sometimes you might get an amazing group. sometimes... not so much. maker help you if you are a dps, have fun waiting for the queue pop, that you have to be queuing for during peak times anyways, and hopefully for a pledge dungeon. so your chances of getting no death, speed run, etc achievements are - and I'm being generous here, about 50/50. you could try tanking or healing, sure, but then you have a fabulous time of dealing with grumbling about how you don't provide orbs, don't have that ranged taunt yet, why aren't you wearing spell power cure, how some you didn't heal me through that red crap I stood in and I can keep going.

the fact is, if you are willing to put in some effort, you CAN level mage guild skill line in a day (each book is 5 points, and distance between books is FAR shorter then time it takes to finish even the fastest dungeon, to get 10 undaunted points), you CAN level fighter's guild skill line in a day, but with undaunted. its not just your effort. its artificially time gated between very specific things AND it's not just your effort anymore. its luck with pugs and/or luck with finding a group of 3 other people who are willing to put in the time FOR you, taking away from whatever goals they may have for themselves in the game, its just.

its ridiculous. for vast VAST majority of players, leveling undaunted is RI. DI. CU. LOUS. maker help you if you are pvper. I used to think getting caltrops sucked. its cakewalk compared to leveling undaunted, even for someone who is not much into pvp.

You're going to get the occasional brick wall with group finder, sure. That's also why you don't pick vCoS and ICP as your first dungeons of choice in the specific finder. The remaining ones, esp with the recently instated requirements, are generally clearable, even with a random group. For the ones that are a bit harder, simply do them on Norm...

Worst case scenario, find three other people that also need said dungeons and help each other complete.

If you need all bosses, whether for quest or achieve, say so upfront. Most groups are willing to accommodate that, since the speed difference is not that grand. If you don't mention it, most will assume it's a pledge boss only or random status quo and just proceed to the end.

I've never been in a dungeon where I've told someone to **** off when they said they had the quest or needed X boss.

You're content putting the effort in for MG, but not for Undaunted? 10-20 minutes per run, in general, and again, if you have a premade group, you can queue instantly, one after the other. You get Undaunted rep for each achievement

• Norm clear
• Vet clear (automatically also grants you Norm clear)
• All boss clear (if separate from the above)
• Speed Run
• No Death
• Hard mode (even if it's not a pledge - it's bonus Rep)

The thing is, on some level, Undaunted was originally designed to half way mean something, as you needed the clears to earn it, and those clears helped indicate you had some measure of understanding about mechanics, roles, group synergy, etc.

It's been greatly simplified from what it once was, but it's still reasonable if you put forth the effort.

The reason pugging is so bad 90% of the time is that most are just trying to race to the finish line in this exact manner, then wanting to complain why they get their collective ass kicked when doing these for real.

FG you get on autopilot - 90% of the mobs in this game are either undead or daedra. MG is just a time sync.

Undaunted actually requires you to have some idea what you're doing, and it should stay that way.

you are not getting it. its not about merely putting in the effort. its about the fact that there are fewer options for putting in aforementioned effort, it requires schedules and desires of 3 other people to correspond with yours ( and if they do not, you are severely limited as to how many points you can earn per dia via random group finder) its time consuming in MULTITUDE of ways, vast majority of people .. cannot just find 3 more people at the drop of a hat who are

1. willing to run all these dungeons with you
2. willing to run them on vet hardmode
3. capable of actualy accomplishing above AND a speedrun AND a no death run, WHILE killing every boss
4. assuming you are hardcore enough to be able to do that without being carried, or in other words you need 3 people willing to carry you

you are also forgetting wait time in queue which eats up a significant amount of time on its own.

"just ask in zone for Bogrul quest shares" because having someone there when you are there, AND with a quest that they can share that you still need is so very feasible all the time. if you are lucky, you might MIGHT get 3-4 of those done in a day and it will take a few hours just getting the quests, getting to the zones where delves are. actual clearing of the delve is the easiest, least time consuming part of this nonsense.

I have personaly leveled my Templar healer by randoming normal dungeons. most of them we have actualy cleared. I was lucky enough to get a different dungeon 80% of the time and most of them people didn't skip the bosses in, so I got a lot of different clears and a healthy chunk of skill points that was helpful on its own. because I was on a healer, my wait time was low. I DIDN'T EVEN GET UNDAUNTED 4. she got to level 50 by doing dungeons and I COULDN'T EVEN START LEVELING ORBS. it took her days of pledges - mostly on normal, a few easier ones on vet before she even got to undaunted 5. forget getting anywhere near 9 and undaunted mettle passive.

this. is. NUTS.

it is INSANE.

its not even about wanting all things now. its about the fact that only specific efforts get rewarded, only in a specific way and all other effort, even if its dungeon related? does. not. count. we are asking FOR OUR EFFORT TO COUNT.

maniac4maniac wrote: »

And you can't do a lot solo. At least remove daily undaunted delve limit of 1 delve per day, please, so fully desperate people could lvlup it there?

Delve quest is shareable, so while you can only pick up one quest per day from the questgiver, you can actually do tons of them.

They've increased the number of pledges available, increased the amount of undaunted XP per pledge, and made it easier to do solo (just motor through 2-3x normal pledges plus your delve quest and any delve shares you can wrangle.

Or run with a decent team and get nodeaths+speed runs for the bonus undaunted XP from those achievements. It really doesn't take that long anymore.

Hmm, I'm at level 9 (or 10 now) on all my CP characters. I've never considered leveling undaunted a daunting task. If you manage to do HM+speedrun+no death, you'll gain a lot of XP (over one level at first, and AFAIR 3 such combos for 8->9). It takes 2 weeks tops doing only vet pledges few times a week (unless you're very unlucky with the groups and you can't complete neither of the challenges).

Once I've tried grinding it with group finder. I respecced my character to a tank and did a few dungeons each day. Took 3 days to get to 9. Once I've done it with friends and it took few hours. Usually it just happens naturally over two weeks (depends on how often I do pledges and my luck to the groups). The passives are not game changers. I'm not usually obsessed with it (for health I just change one enchant until I level the skill line, for damage... the difference is not big, for resource return - you can't depend on synergies anyway - it's chasing a rabbit more often than not).

maniac4maniac wrote: »

It was always long, but it was okay when dungeons were not a dead zone like it is now

Nowadays it's the hardest content in the game - to find a group to lvlup undaunted by doing achievements.
And without that by doing only 2-3 pledges each day it takes forever to finish 9-10 lvl skill tree.

For MaX cp, end-game PvE players it can take:

Mage line - 1 day to max
Fighters line - hours-1 day to max
Undaunted - week/s to max

And you can't do a lot solo. At least remove daily undaunted delve limit of 1 delve per day, please, so fully desperate people could lvlup it there?

And other suggestions:

- completing random normal gives 5-10 points
- completingrandom vet gives 10-20 points (hm)
- 1 world boss cleaned for the 1st time gives 10-20 points

You can earn up to 150 undaunted per day by doing the Bolgrul daily quests (1 for each zone, but must be shared beyond the first) as well as +30 by doing all 3 pledges. On top of this there will be Achievement Based Undaunted points at the early stages and completion of a particular dungeon the first time will also award undaunted exp. Even with all of that though I definitely find earning Undaunted Exp far more grindy than Alliance War exp. Do with that what you will and I hope my suggestion is helpful.

Undaunted credit for ALL dungeon runs (even normal repeats and non-daily).

maniac4maniac wrote: »

At least remove daily undaunted delve limit of 1 delve per day, please, so fully desperate people could lvlup it there?

I'd be in favor of this, but only if they added more Delve quests to Bolgrul. Also, adding an undaunted payout to the Vvardenfell, Gold Coast, Clockwork City, and Wrothgar delve quests would be nice.

idk wrote: »

Get a good group together and do a group of vet dungeons. Doing it this way and getting the speed runs and no death along with the HM achievements levels up the line very fast.

Spot on. We have been saying that all through the thread but the short cutters are listening

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Alternatively you can go after dungeon achievements for xp

How long ago did you try to find a group (for not-pledges)?

I'm talking about week+ with dungeon achievs because it's really hard nowadays to find people who would like to go into vet Dungeons, coz they were there hundreds of times and dungeons are mostly forgotten now for this and that reason. I myself am helping friends sometimes with that, but i really am bored after 1-3 dungeons there.

Get some friends. Ezpz

pieratsos wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

I said it wouldn't make YOU competitive not that it wasn't important to people like me who ARE competitive.

Watchout guys. We have a badass here. His epeen is real big.

Cool, I have my second stalker...lol one in game and one on the forums...just need my secretary and treasurer an the core of my fan club will be established...any takers?

Lmao. Your insecurities and the need to tell urself how good you are is really sad.
But since this is the only language you respond to, im gonna put it this way.

Ive been playing the game since beta. When doshia was a lot harder than the world bosses we have today. If you even know who that is. When travelling in silver zones was very dangerous and 2-3 mobs could take you down very easily. When normal dungeons were very challenging. When halls of torment were literally halls of torment and lyris doppleganger was almost unbeatable unless you were outlevelling her.

"I grew up on XB, pre 1-T(VR14) so save its hard on PC plea for some nub".
Thats cute. I grew up before you even existed. Save ur stupid competitive speeches for some nub. The game you grew up isnt competitive and you dont even know the half of it. You are still a baby.

When Doshia was the first Harvester we'd ever encountered (they got easier with practice about the time I hit Coldharbor) and so had no clue wtf her mechanics were and how to handle them plus her adds and so most builds that didn't have AOE really struggled to muddle their way to victory into we all figured out her mechanics eventually...

When traveling in Silver Zones at a lower level was dangerous because ZOS had an enforced miss chance mechanic so that all your damage actually might not hit the enemy you were trying to fight (pure artificial difficulty there) or you'd be fighting enemies at slightly higher levels, but don't forget you could go back to your starter zones and one-shot everything you'd out-leveled...

When the Lyris Doppelganger (ooh, another Harvester with hard mechanics) was again a harder boss for players who didn't know how to deal with Harvesters and Lyris/Tharn were no help at all...

A lot of this was genuinely harder because we had no effing clue how to play the game. Some of its been nerfed, sure, because ZOS isn't Dark Souls and realized that having new players bashed their heads against the wall in early game solo quests is a problem. But for the most part, the game is tons easier because of player experience and power creep.

I dont know how long you've been playing but the game back in 2014 wasnt even remotely close with today's game or 1T. The reasons for that entirely irrelevant. But that bolded part is literally the point of my response to someone who is running his mouth because he thinks he is an ESO "veteran".

I've been playing long enough to have experienced everything I talked about there. But we don't disagree that the game is easier. I just think the game is tons easier because of player experience, power creep, and changes that ZOS has made so that new players don't find certain early-game solo bosses a complete pain in the butt to defeat with whatever random build they've cobbled together because ZOS deliberately avoids explaining to new players how to build an effective character. If ZOS wanted to explain how to build an effective character, they'd be able to push the difficulty further, since most mini-bosses like harvesters can be handled once you know the mechanics and have a half-way decent build to work on them. But ZOS doesn't want to tell players what to do, so new players are left on their own, meaning ZOS has to plan the difficulty of the game to a low skill level that ZOS has left in that low state.

Beardimus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Get a good group together and do a group of vet dungeons. Doing it this way and getting the speed runs and no death along with the HM achievements levels up the line very fast.

Spot on. We have been saying that all through the thread but the short cutters are listening

because not everyone can do that. in fact most people can NOT. we are not all masters of animation canceling in hardcore guilds that are running dungeons all day every day.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Get a good group together and do a group of vet dungeons. Doing it this way and getting the speed runs and no death along with the HM achievements levels up the line very fast.

Spot on. We have been saying that all through the thread but the short cutters are listening

because not everyone can do that. in fact most people can NOT. we are not all masters of animation canceling in hardcore guilds that are running dungeons all day every day.

Not everyone has to.

You hardly need a hardmode clear on every four man dungeon to get Undaunted 10. In fact, you can reach Undaunted 10 (even though one tick over 8 is all you need for the passives in question) and still have dungeons on your list you've never set foot it...

Again, the line is there to teach mechanics and group play - it has a purpose beyond the passives. In either case, it's quite reasonable to achieve in an equally reasonable amount of time.

Sure, if you can Hard Mode/No Death/Speed Run in one shot, it'll level faster, but even if you don't, it still arrives in reasonable time.

To put it another way: If you and your group are having extreme difficulties with those things, that 2-6% stat bonus is not going to make a significant difference anyway.

Here's a flip side analogy: Would the PvP'ers be good with us earning Grand Overlord after killing enough scamps, doing enough side quests, or refining enough mats? Somehow I doubt it.

Technically that not the right analogy.

See, ZOS already substantially reduced the amount of AP it takes to get to the Assault and Support rank 10. Most PVEers who want skills only have to get up to Alliance rank 4-6. Now I can't remember where Caltrops drops at rank 6 or 7. But either way, once they get those, they're gone. Its considerable faster to get them now than it used to be, which most PVEers generally regard as a good thing and PVPers appreciate because we get those nice skills on our alts much quicker.

It doesn't take that long to get up to, say, caltrops in PVP. Now, that time will vary by player and their PVP skill, mount speed, and ability to figure out the map and how their faction is doing at the time. Huge variables (sort of like random PUGs). However, I generally figure it will take me a couple days dedicating several hours every day to playing. I actually just reached Assault rank 10 on a new character, that I'd reckon took me about a week of playing a lot of PVP, so probably two weeks of playing if I could only play a couple of hours most days. Its also possible to reach that goal without PVPing at all. If you go to a delve, kill a boss for the blessing of war 20% buff, you can convert gold into repair kits and repair walls until you hit caltrops. It'll take forever, but so will avoiding all group content and just doing the daily delve quest for the undaunted (unless you have friends to share their dailies with you).

Grand Overlord on the other hand is something like 64 million AP and most PVPers will never reach that rank.

So I guess what I'm saying is that ZOS did reduce the AP requirements for the Assault and Support skills that PVEer think they absolutely need. There are also some non-PVP ways to get them, like repairing walls and questing in Cyrodiil. If you did it that way, it would take forever as opposed to some dedicated sessions of PVP. If you know what you are doing or don't but you find a good group to tag along with, you should be able to get those skills in about a week at most. Those Assault and Support skills are well within reach of the vast majority of PVEers who have no interest or particular skill at PVP.

Is the same true of the Undaunted rank 9 and 10, consider that the vast majority of players are not comfortable in vet dungeons(at least judging by the forum complaints)?