new way to lvlup -Undaunted Skill Line- please

T4T2FR34K

VaranisArano wrote: »

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

maniac4maniac wrote: »

It was always long, but it was okay when dungeons were not a dead zone like it is now

Nowadays it's the hardest content in the game - to find a group to lvlup undaunted by doing achievements.
And without that by doing only 2-3 pledges each day it takes forever to finish 9-10 lvl skill tree.

Mage line - 1 day to max
Fighters line - hours-1 day to max
Undaunted - weeks to max

And you can't do a lot solo. At least remove daily undaunted delve limit of 1 delve per day, please, so fully desperate people could lvlup it there?

I don't know what you people are agreeing on...the problem isn't that it takes weeks to max undaunted...the problem is that it takes a day to max mages/fighters guild...its fine as is and should just illustrate how the others need to be brought into line...

Please keep in mind that these were different before One Tamriel. Before One Tamriel, you couldn't grind through the Mages Guild. You couldn't get to half the zones! You had to pick up the books as you leveled and if you could reach higher level zones after level 50, you'd have to dodge around unkillable enemies (thanks to that miss chance for attacks).

Fighter's Guild, technically, you could level by grinding. Except, you didn't want to because if you did you risked outleveling your other quest content!

So pre-One Tamriel, Mages and Fighters Guild quests were a pretty intense grind that you picked up naturally as you played the game. Just like the Undaunted leveling as you started to get into dungeons.

Post-One Tamriel, the whole world is open and you can't outlevel content. So now grinding for Mages and Fighters Guild is totally viable. Even Undaunted got easier, since now you can group freely with players of any alliance, making pre-made groups much easier to find. Its not like there isn't precedent for having skill lines get easier, as well, since ZOS lowered the amount of AP required to get Assault and Support skill lines in PVP.

I grew up on XB, PRE-1T (VR14) so save the its hard on PC plea for some nub.

I don't think you quite understood my point. My point was that Fighters and Mages Guild was more of a grind before all the zones were opened up by One Tamriel. So was Undaunted since you couldn't use pre-made groups cross-Alliance. One Tamriel made grinding Fighters and Mages Guild both possible and desirable, and ZOS hasn't changed that.

And I guess u missed mine as well...it shouldn't be this easy, it makes people feel entitled to have all skill lines nub worthy, as a matter of fact why don't we just make it so you can pay to have a maxed characters or better yet...once you do something on one character its available to all future characters you make...that's the direction its going and its not a path I want the game to follow, which is where my OP was aimed at...

VaranisArano

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

maniac4maniac wrote: »

It was always long, but it was okay when dungeons were not a dead zone like it is now

Nowadays it's the hardest content in the game - to find a group to lvlup undaunted by doing achievements.
And without that by doing only 2-3 pledges each day it takes forever to finish 9-10 lvl skill tree.

Mage line - 1 day to max
Fighters line - hours-1 day to max
Undaunted - weeks to max

And you can't do a lot solo. At least remove daily undaunted delve limit of 1 delve per day, please, so fully desperate people could lvlup it there?

I don't know what you people are agreeing on...the problem isn't that it takes weeks to max undaunted...the problem is that it takes a day to max mages/fighters guild...its fine as is and should just illustrate how the others need to be brought into line...

Please keep in mind that these were different before One Tamriel. Before One Tamriel, you couldn't grind through the Mages Guild. You couldn't get to half the zones! You had to pick up the books as you leveled and if you could reach higher level zones after level 50, you'd have to dodge around unkillable enemies (thanks to that miss chance for attacks).

Fighter's Guild, technically, you could level by grinding. Except, you didn't want to because if you did you risked outleveling your other quest content!

So pre-One Tamriel, Mages and Fighters Guild quests were a pretty intense grind that you picked up naturally as you played the game. Just like the Undaunted leveling as you started to get into dungeons.

Post-One Tamriel, the whole world is open and you can't outlevel content. So now grinding for Mages and Fighters Guild is totally viable. Even Undaunted got easier, since now you can group freely with players of any alliance, making pre-made groups much easier to find. Its not like there isn't precedent for having skill lines get easier, as well, since ZOS lowered the amount of AP required to get Assault and Support skill lines in PVP.

I grew up on XB, PRE-1T (VR14) so save the its hard on PC plea for some nub.

I don't think you quite understood my point. My point was that Fighters and Mages Guild was more of a grind before all the zones were opened up by One Tamriel. So was Undaunted since you couldn't use pre-made groups cross-Alliance. One Tamriel made grinding Fighters and Mages Guild both possible and desirable, and ZOS hasn't changed that.

And I guess u missed mine as well...it shouldn't be this easy, it makes people feel entitled to have all skill lines nub worthy, as a matter of fact why don't we just make it so you can pay to have a maxed characters or better yet...once you do something on one character its available to all future characters you make...that's the direction its going and its not a path I want the game to follow, which is where my OP was aimed at...

That's fair. I don't think its the way the game is going, which ZOS encouraging us to make alts and chase after the latest BIS meta. I don't think that the grind for Undaunted is going away, but judging by the addition of the Fighters and Mages Guild dailies and the continued use of grinding spots in games like the Alikr Dolmens, I don't think the quick grind for those guild lines is going away either. ZOS likes to make us grind, is what I'm saying. I'm sure they'd love to extend the FG and MG grind, but I suspect they'll settle for adding new grind to the game like transmute crystals and eventually transmog.

T4T2FR34K

VaranisArano wrote: »

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

maniac4maniac wrote: »

It was always long, but it was okay when dungeons were not a dead zone like it is now

Nowadays it's the hardest content in the game - to find a group to lvlup undaunted by doing achievements.
And without that by doing only 2-3 pledges each day it takes forever to finish 9-10 lvl skill tree.

Mage line - 1 day to max
Fighters line - hours-1 day to max
Undaunted - weeks to max

And you can't do a lot solo. At least remove daily undaunted delve limit of 1 delve per day, please, so fully desperate people could lvlup it there?

I don't know what you people are agreeing on...the problem isn't that it takes weeks to max undaunted...the problem is that it takes a day to max mages/fighters guild...its fine as is and should just illustrate how the others need to be brought into line...

Please keep in mind that these were different before One Tamriel. Before One Tamriel, you couldn't grind through the Mages Guild. You couldn't get to half the zones! You had to pick up the books as you leveled and if you could reach higher level zones after level 50, you'd have to dodge around unkillable enemies (thanks to that miss chance for attacks).

Fighter's Guild, technically, you could level by grinding. Except, you didn't want to because if you did you risked outleveling your other quest content!

So pre-One Tamriel, Mages and Fighters Guild quests were a pretty intense grind that you picked up naturally as you played the game. Just like the Undaunted leveling as you started to get into dungeons.

Post-One Tamriel, the whole world is open and you can't outlevel content. So now grinding for Mages and Fighters Guild is totally viable. Even Undaunted got easier, since now you can group freely with players of any alliance, making pre-made groups much easier to find. Its not like there isn't precedent for having skill lines get easier, as well, since ZOS lowered the amount of AP required to get Assault and Support skill lines in PVP.

I grew up on XB, PRE-1T (VR14) so save the its hard on PC plea for some nub.

I don't think you quite understood my point. My point was that Fighters and Mages Guild was more of a grind before all the zones were opened up by One Tamriel. So was Undaunted since you couldn't use pre-made groups cross-Alliance. One Tamriel made grinding Fighters and Mages Guild both possible and desirable, and ZOS hasn't changed that.

And I guess u missed mine as well...it shouldn't be this easy, it makes people feel entitled to have all skill lines nub worthy, as a matter of fact why don't we just make it so you can pay to have a maxed characters or better yet...once you do something on one character its available to all future characters you make...that's the direction its going and its not a path I want the game to follow, which is where my OP was aimed at...

That's fair. I don't think its the way the game is going, which ZOS encouraging us to make alts and chase after the latest BIS meta. I don't think that the grind for Undaunted is going away, but judging by the addition of the Fighters and Mages Guild dailies and the continued use of grinding spots in games like the Alikr Dolmens, I don't think the quick grind for those guild lines is going away either. ZOS likes to make us grind, is what I'm saying. I'm sure they'd love to extend the FG and MG grind, but I suspect they'll settle for adding new grind to the game like transmute crystals and eventually transmog.

I would tend to believe that as well.

Prof_Bawbag

logarifmik wrote: »

Sure, make the game more casual to attract more casuals, which will complain about any non-casual aspect of the game on the forum, and by reading these devs will make game even more casual and attract more casuals to complain, and finally we will end up with god damn Pokemon game or whatever.

I don't really get this logic when it's applied to what actually goes on in-game. The same was spouted about Craglorn -"Ooooh it's been dumbed down for the casuals" etc. What you people fail to realise, that whilst you are all stood in Mournhold spamming AoE's and other stuff, new players are completely ignored when they ask for help on a world boss or if they wanted to run Craglorn or vet dungeons. Why? Because most long term players have dome all that content when it was first released and have no intention of going back to help these new casuals out as you eloquently call them.

You see it happening in Morrowind with the world bosses. people spamming chat for help, yet next to no one does as they've did it all when the content was first released and there were plenty of people there to help without even having to ask. A lot of the game and bosses are dead zones now as is looking for help going into random vet dungeons. Yay good for you, you've had your piece of cake, but to hell with everyone else who are just now beginning to venture into these places.

T4T2FR34K

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

Sure, make the game more casual to attract more casuals, which will complain about any non-casual aspect of the game on the forum, and by reading these devs will make game even more casual and attract more casuals to complain, and finally we will end up with god damn Pokemon game or whatever.

I don't really get this logic when it's applied to what actually goes on in-game. The same was spouted about Craglorn -"Ooooh it's been dumbed down for the casuals" etc. What you people fail to realise, that whilst you are all stood in Mournhold spamming AoE's and other stuff, new players are completely ignored when they ask for help on a world boss or if they wanted to run Craglorn or vet dungeons. Why? Because most long term players have dome all that content when it was first released and have no intention of going back to help these new casuals out as you eloquently call them.

You see it happening in Morrowind with the world bosses. people spamming chat for help, yet next to no one does as they've did it all when the content was first released and there were plenty of people there to help without even having to ask. A lot of the game and bosses are dead zones now as is looking for help going into random vet dungeons. Yay good for you, you've had your piece of cake, but to hell with everyone else who are just now beginning to venture into these places.

Right and those same people were new once and had to go through all the growing pains you want an easy button for now...

Eyesinthedrk

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I agree though I also feel in its current state the undaunted mettle passive should be reworked to increase dmg against raid bosses by 1/2/3% so PvPers don't feel pressured to grind that tree out.

That’s a terrible idea, a total dps loss that also gives choice of a health or further dps loss. Magica toons loosing 2/3 of their stamina just from popping rapids. Though stamblades not being able to cloke and stam DKs that can’t talon or buff does sound attractive.

Splattercat_83

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I agree though I also feel in its current state the undaunted mettle passive should be reworked to increase dmg against raid bosses by 1/2/3% so PvPers don't feel pressured to grind that tree out.

Oh lord, lets not pressure the poor poor pvpers. But its completely fine to gut pve for the poor, poor pvpers. ***, you can already buy head gear and shoulders that drop out of the hardest 4 man content. Pve sustain, was destroyed because of pvpers, tanking is taking nerf after nerf because of pvpers.

On the other hand pve players have to come into cyrodill and pvp for war horn, caltrops, vigor.

In other words leave it the way it is.

Beardimus

Don't do pledges to level it.

Just get a known group and tick off all the dungeons on vet, go for speed mode / hard mode etc and you nearly have it topped out in one pass.

Doing it pledge by pledge is not eh way now

maniac4maniac

Beardimus wrote: »

Don't do pledges to level it.

Just get a known group and tick off all the dungeons on vet, go for speed mode / hard mode etc and you nearly have it topped out in one pass.

Doing it pledge by pledge is not eh way now

Yes that's how people used to do it correctly as i wrote, how i did it 2 years ago or so.

But NOW it'snearly impossible to find auch group and dungeon finder is full with people who very most likely won't be able yo even do some speedruns.

Linaleah

to the day I don't understand why public dungeon achievements don't count towards leveling undaunted. or... doing random daily dungeon. I mean.. you get undaunted supplies as a reward, why not some points towards your skill line? its frustrating to level, its excruciatingly slow unless you are good enough to speed run vet dungeons AND have a set group willing to run without, especially while you are still missing necessary buffs and skills (orbs, taunt, cough and that is NOT counting passives) I'm still annoyed that even while leveling entirely through normal mode dungeons my healer didn't get anywhere NEAR rank 5 to be albe to get orbs... that she needs to cast in order to do dungeons in a first place. its bizzare.

P.S. it would still. take. effort. ffs. just give us, i don't know MORE BLOODY OPTIONS TO LEVEL THAT INFERNAL AND YET NECESSARY FOR JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING IN GROUPS SKILL LINE.

logarifmik

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

I don't really get this logic when it's applied to what actually goes on in-game. The same was spouted about Craglorn -"Ooooh it's been dumbed down for the casuals" etc. What you people fail to realise, that whilst you are all stood in Mournhold spamming AoE's and other stuff, new players are completely ignored when they ask for help on a world boss or if they wanted to run Craglorn or vet dungeons. Why? Because most long term players have dome all that content when it was first released and have no intention of going back to help these new casuals out as you eloquently call them.

You see it happening in Morrowind with the world bosses. people spamming chat for help, yet next to no one does as they've did it all when the content was first released and there were plenty of people there to help without even having to ask. A lot of the game and bosses are dead zones now as is looking for help going into random vet dungeons. Yay good for you, you've had your piece of cake, but to hell with everyone else who are just now beginning to venture into these places.

If you referring to me personally, then, well, I help newcomers almost all the time. Just because I'm a good guy I suppose, which knows how illogical sometimes game mechanics can be, or how frustrating it can be if you only want to play this game for the story, quests and such, or roleplay at some point. Actually I have a really great story on the subject. When I started to play ESO, I didn't played MMO RPGs much, and to be honest didn't like them at all. I'm not sure, that I will like any other MMO, whatever. But I love TES universe, and that's why my main interest always is the story. Remember first Undaunted quest, right? So, I really want to complete this damn Spindleclutch and read all the stuff, you know. And I occasionally met one veteran guy in the zone chat in Glenumbra, which agreed to help me. Together we finished this dungeon and a few more. He helped me a lot. He even helped me to level enchantment skill by crafting for me high level runes. Since then, I'm quite friendly and helpful to newcomers, see?
I only want this game to be reasonably challenging, and that's all. Without any royal roads to max skill lines and such.

zaria

pieratsos wrote: »

Axoinus wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I agree though I also feel in its current state the undaunted mettle passive should be reworked to increase dmg against raid bosses by 1/2/3% so PvPers don't feel pressured to grind that tree out.

I am going to politely disagree with your logic. If you don't want PvPers to feel pressured to do PvE content, then PvErs should not feel pressured to do PvP content.

PvE lives matter

What are you even talking about. You can get vigor, carltrops, war horn in 2 hours. Thats not pressure or forced to do PVP, thats just encouraging you to try PVP and if u dont like it, dont ever do it again.

This, exception is if you end in an fake zerg, all running all over the map this is easy to see.
Either try to get another group or try later.
You also get an decent drop of transmute crystals

zaria

thedude33 wrote: »

My tank is level 6 undaunted I think. Every other toon is level 1 undaunted and they won't get any higher. I won't dare queue for a dungeon as a DPS. No way I would meet the 'standards'. Likely end up being the subject of a forum post about fake dps or potatoes. I think people would be surprised at the amount of people that won't do dungeons for the same reason.

Standard for normal dungeons is: not run ahead of tank and die leaving the rest to pick up the slack, except that LA works.
some AoE is nice, more AoE is better. having some sort of rotation so you do 10K on single target and you are golden.
Easier vet dungeons even HM just require that rest of group is up to your pitiful level.
And I mostly heal

O_LYKOS

Why is everyone always in such a rush to have everything max level in one day...

T4T2FR34K

O_LYKOS wrote: »

Why is everyone always in such a rush to have everything max level in one day...

Thank you. +1

But its the "Have it ur way", "30 min or its free" and "Customer is always right" mentalities at work. I want what I want and I want it NEEEEEEEEOW!!!!

geonsocal

always believed public dungeons and world bosses should have a tie in to the undaunted skill line...

VaranisArano

Splattercat_83 wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I agree though I also feel in its current state the undaunted mettle passive should be reworked to increase dmg against raid bosses by 1/2/3% so PvPers don't feel pressured to grind that tree out.

Oh lord, lets not pressure the poor poor pvpers. But its completely fine to gut pve for the poor, poor pvpers. ***, you can already buy head gear and shoulders that drop out of the hardest 4 man content. Pve sustain, was destroyed because of pvpers, tanking is taking nerf after nerf because of pvpers.

On the other hand pve players have to come into cyrodill and pvp for war horn, caltrops, vigor.

In other words leave it the way it is.

Before I address my fundamental agreement with your final point, I want to take issue with your reasoning.

In addition to PVP sustain being gutted because ZOS wanted to limit player's ability to permablock and still do damage, PVE susatin was gutted because PVEers were destroying the hardest content ZOS could push out. ZOS was faced with eitehr developing extremely challenging content that would be beyond anyone but the very top tier players, or doing a hard across-the-board nerf to make sure that any group capable of good DPS had a shot at Trials. PVE power creep drove most of the Morrowind sustain nerfs, and I'm tired of PVEers conveniently forgetting that.

And let's look at tanking. PVE tanking is still fine. Most of ZOS' tweaks to PVP tanking haven't really effected it because PVE tanks tend not to focus on doing damage. ZOS doesn't really want permablocking in eitehr PVP or PVE, so that's a wash.
But let's look at two examples of tank nerfs.
Green Pact + Plague Doctor -> This little combo of gear sets that boosted Igneous Shields to the point that high health tanks were carrying groups throug Vet dugneons and trials was used by PVEers! ZOS decided they couldn't have that and nerfed it quickly. Strangely enough, ZOS doesn't like PVE content becoming a cakewalk.
Tava's Blessing + Shuffle -> ZOS has a track record of nerfing/changing the BIS meta regularly, and Tava's + Shuffle + Bloodspawn has been a go-to meta set for ulti generating PVE tanks for a long time now. I'm not surprised that it wound up on the chopping block.

So now that I've addressed some selective memory issues about why exactly PVE content got "gutted" (Power Creep in PVE and ZOS' need to change stuff up is at least as much to blame as PVP complaints, if not more), let's address the issue at hand.

ZOS isn't going to change the Undaunted passives. Why? For the exact same reason they are thrilled that war horn, caltrops, and vigor get PVEers into Cyrodiil: ZOS wants players to play all of the game! ZOS doesn't care that PVPers hate doing undaunted pledges - they're playing the game! ZOS doesn't care that most PVEers hate Cyrodiil - they're playing the game! Though, ZOS did definitely lower the amount of AP required to get war horn, vigor, and caltrops, so you might want to consider that in your argument...(And then you have the few PVEers who come to Cyrodiil for the skills/skyshards/fish and stay...and stay...and like me, are now regular PVPers along with PVE) ZOS is absolutely delighted that PVEers have decided they "must have" skills from PVP and that PVPers have decided they "must have" passives from Undaunted becuase that gets more players in game, for long periods of time. Its a complete win-win for ZOS.

logarifmik

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

O_LYKOS wrote: »

Why is everyone always in such a rush to have everything max level in one day...

Thank you. +1

But its the "Have it ur way", "30 min or its free" and "Customer is always right" mentalities at work. I want what I want and I want it NEEEEEEEEOW!!!!

Finally the root of the problem identified.

Slick_007

maniac4maniac wrote: »

It shows how much time you wasted (not spent) in dungeons that you don't need and want to do.

if its wasted time, dont do it. just dont expect the rewards that go along with it either.

nickl413

Wow I don't believe what I'm reading. Someone is actually complaining about undaunted taking too long to level, in this day and age??? It's faster than ever now. I remember not too long ago it took ages to level. There were only 2 pledges, silver and gold. Gold HAD to be done on vet, otherwise no pledge turn in. Silver was done on normal but gave significantly less undaunted exp for completing. Other than getting, what 30? exp from pledges per day (which took months), the only other way was to grind out those vet achievements. Now there is a daily delve and 3 pledges, all of which give the same amount of exp and can be zipped through on normal mode. If you find someone with the delve quests you haven't done, they can share it with you. You could potentially do 15 delve quests per day. All those delves, pledges and initial completions of dungeons and you could seriously have it done in a week.

altemriel

maniac4maniac wrote: »

It was always long, but it was okay when dungeons were not a dead zone like it is now

Nowadays it's the hardest content in the game - to find a group to lvlup undaunted by doing achievements.
And without that by doing only 2-3 pledges each day it takes forever to finish 9-10 lvl skill tree.

Mage line - 1 day to max
Fighters line - hours-1 day to max
Undaunted - weeks to max

And you can't do a lot solo. At least remove daily undaunted delve limit of 1 delve per day, please, so fully desperate people could lvlup it there?

undaunted skill line levels by killing daedras, farm dolmens or port to coldharbor and farm there

feyii

altemriel wrote: »

maniac4maniac wrote: »

It was always long, but it was okay when dungeons were not a dead zone like it is now

Nowadays it's the hardest content in the game - to find a group to lvlup undaunted by doing achievements.
And without that by doing only 2-3 pledges each day it takes forever to finish 9-10 lvl skill tree.

Mage line - 1 day to max
Fighters line - hours-1 day to max
Undaunted - weeks to max

And you can't do a lot solo. At least remove daily undaunted delve limit of 1 delve per day, please, so fully desperate people could lvlup it there?

undaunted skill line levels by killing daedras, farm dolmens or port to coldharbor and farm there

No, it doesn't. You're mixing that up with the FG skill line. That requires killing daedra, undead and completing dolmens.

Taleof2Cities

Yeah, well, if you’re totally against being social ... and grouping up to do 4-person dungeons is too hard ... then I can see why someone would want to do unlimited undaunted daily delves.

Problem is that undaunted is already pretty easy to level.

Especially if you complete the group dungeon quests while also doing pledges or random daily.

olsborg

Also, .......I cant stress this enough. If you want to just pvp, why would they give us such a big and important passive and put it behind a pve grindwall such as that.... bleh I say.

Qbiken

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Don't do pledges to level it.

Just get a known group and tick off all the dungeons on vet, go for speed mode / hard mode etc and you nearly have it topped out in one pass.

Doing it pledge by pledge is not eh way now

Yes that's how people used to do it correctly as i wrote, how i did it 2 years ago or so.

But NOW it'snearly impossible to find auch group and dungeon finder is full with people who very most likely won't be able yo even do some speedruns.

Don´t use groupfinder, get in a social/PvE guild and get some decent people together. It doesn´t take weeks to get undaunted maxed out, especially not after ZOS added more achievments that counts towards undaunted rank. Took me and some friends 2-3 days (in total maybe 5-6 hours) to go from undaunted rank 1 to max. Is it a tedious grind to to on your 12th alt? It can be, but it doesn´t take much time unless you want to....

Prof_Bawbag

T4T2FR34K wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

logarifmik wrote: »

Sure, make the game more casual to attract more casuals, which will complain about any non-casual aspect of the game on the forum, and by reading these devs will make game even more casual and attract more casuals to complain, and finally we will end up with god damn Pokemon game or whatever.

I don't really get this logic when it's applied to what actually goes on in-game. The same was spouted about Craglorn -"Ooooh it's been dumbed down for the casuals" etc. What you people fail to realise, that whilst you are all stood in Mournhold spamming AoE's and other stuff, new players are completely ignored when they ask for help on a world boss or if they wanted to run Craglorn or vet dungeons. Why? Because most long term players have dome all that content when it was first released and have no intention of going back to help these new casuals out as you eloquently call them.

You see it happening in Morrowind with the world bosses. people spamming chat for help, yet next to no one does as they've did it all when the content was first released and there were plenty of people there to help without even having to ask. A lot of the game and bosses are dead zones now as is looking for help going into random vet dungeons. Yay good for you, you've had your piece of cake, but to hell with everyone else who are just now beginning to venture into these places.

Right and those same people were new once and had to go through all the growing pains you want an easy button for now...

Way to win an argument. Go right to the other end of the spectrum, with absolutely no in-between. The usual nonsense spouted from those who think their own little bubble of existence is all that matters. I mean, where did i say I wanted an easy button? Where did anyone say they wanted an easy button?

Did you ever spend time helping any newcomers run through Craglorn before it was made solo friendly? Or did you just do what the vast, vast majority of people did and ignore them as it wasn't your place to help out? I've played this game for an age now, however, I still remember standing in Capital city hubs asking if anyone would be so kind as to team up with me to run some Crag content. Know what? Never ever got a single offer of help. In fact, I was told on numerous occasions that no one went there after their first time and almost everyone wasn't interested in helping. So in the end, ZoS' hand was forced to change things up because other than people looking for mats, Crag was 99% dead. No one ventured there. Players who now moan about it being dumbed down have absolutely no one other than themselves to blame for it being dumbed down due to them never willing to venture out of their little bubble to help others.

As history shows, all the dumbing down that happens in this game is due to the unhelpfulness of others. Yet the it's the unhelpful people who are the first to throw all their toys out the pram when content gets tweaked so others don't need to rely on others.

No doubt you'll claim to be one of the most helpful people in the game as that's what the majority of unhelpful players claim to be like on the forums, yet they're nowhere to be seen once in the game. The reality in-game and the reality which gets painted on here very rarely match up. I must have been playing the wrong game for all these years if I had believed half the stuff I've seen typed on these forums.

Linaleah

there are 2 kinds of people in this world.

the "I have suffered, so now you must suffer as well" people
and
"I have suffered, so I get why no one else should have to go through that crap" people

there are far too many of the second type of people in this thread (and in the world)

undaunted is only fast and "easy" if you farm vet dungeons for achievements. for which you need to have a dedicated, CAPABLE group of 3 other people who are willing to run with you for those 5-6 hours (really? really????, that is NOT even remotely close to average, we are talking speed no death run on a first try capable people here) doing pledges on normal is 10 points per. achievement for the first time finishing dungeon, assuming you actualy kill all the bosses in a place, which.. with so many people skipping optional non pledge bosses nowadays, good luck! is if I remember correctly is also 10 points. doing the first time quest doesn't count towards undaunted. I mean... you can run around the world buying drinks for everyone.... for a WHOLE 35 points.

it. sucks. STILL. the fact that it used to be worse, doesn't mean it still doesn't suck. so why exactly public dungeons shouldn't be on that achievement list? they are dungeons. why is it that clearing a delve doesn't give you an achievement worth 5 points, since we don't want to be tooo generous >_> but why is it that there is a daily delve undaunted quest, so obviously Undaunted themselves count delve as undaunted eligible.. but that completing delves doesn't count towards undaunted? "have people share 15 delve quests with you" how many people actualy DO that? how many people hang around just when you need them, to share that delve quest with you that you haven't done yet? 40 points per day on average is all you get, assuming you do the DLC dungeon pledge. maker help you if you are not a subscriber, or didn't buy DLC dungeons yet, or just don't feel confident enough to go do those pledges in a first place, even on normal.

why do we insist on "it sucked when I first did it, so now you have to suffer" ? why SHOULDN'T there be more options to level this skill line? why isn't it in line with other 2 guild skill lines exactly?

Merlin13KAGL

Mages' Guild in one day? Perhaps if you're a lorebook masochist...

FG is easy, yes. Undaunted is somewhere in between.

Each day, do your random first - you might get double duty from it via either the current pledge or a dungeon you have not yet done. After that, use Specific Dungeon Finder to do each dungeon once - do them on Vet.

You'll get a ton of skillpoints from the quests, you'll get both Vet and Norm credit for the clear (advancing Undaunted line further & faster), and you're bound to get the occasional speed run/no death in there as well.

Do the pledges and you'll get anywhere from 20-45 Undaunted rep as well each day.

You won't even be completely through the list before you hit max.

There is no need for more delve quests. Those are a ridiculously easy gift for increasing Undaunted, almost not worth the time, certainly not worthy of the line.

With the skillpoints the quests provide, there's no reason not to run through these. You'll be maxed in under a week.

EDIT: If you queue in the Specific finder, you are inevitably going to end up in someone else's Random daily...just saying.

SaintSubwayy

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Mage line - 1 day to max
Fighters line - hours-1 day to max
Undaunted - get a guild / friends = 2-3days to max

Fixed it for you, you're welcome

Caligamy_ESO

Actually you can do a ton of this solo, just not all dungeons. Also the undaunted daily delves (most people ignore) give a lot of points as well, and can be shared so you can do quite a bit of them every day.